Residual Magic Feat & Magic Item Creation Cost

[lolcat]

Greretings Playground!

A quick question: I am planning to write up a fluffy Archivist / Runecaster to serve as a support / item creation character.

There is one thing unclear at the moment however concerning the Residual Magic feat (Complete Mage, p.46) and how it interacts with the Rune Craft (Ex) ability of the Runecaster (PGtF p. 69):

Say i wanted to create a permanent rune (GP cost = spell level X caster level X 2000 GP).
Assume the character had a metamagic feat, i.e. Fell Drain (Metamagic +2) to apply to a sound burst (level 2 spell), at the first casting this would have an effective spell level of 4, right?

If the character used the Lingering Metamagic option of the Residual Magic feat: Lingering Metamagic: If you cast a spell affected by one or more metamagic feats, and then cast the same spell in the next round, you can apply any one of the metamagic effects from the first casting to the second casting, but without any change to the spell's level.....

Combined with the nature of Rune Magic, which as i understand it actually involves casting the spell to create the runes: "If you know Inscribe Rune, any divine spell you currently have prepared can instead be cast as a rune. A rune is a temporary magical writing similar to a scroll. It can be triggered once before it loses its magical power, but it lasts indefinitely until triggered. A rune written or painted on a surface fades away when expended, erased, or dispelled. A rune carved into a surface remains behind as a bit of nonmagical writing even after its magic is expended.

Inscribing a rune takes 10 minutes plus the casting time of the spell to be included. When you create a rune, you can set the caster level at anywhere from the minimum caster level necessary to cast the spell in question and no higher than your own level. When you create a rune, you make any choices that you would normally make when casting the spell. ..."


Does this mean that if the character used the second casting of the sound burst, which according to the Residual Magic feat has the original spell level, the cost of the rune creation is actually 2 X caster level X 2000gp, instead of 4 X caster level X 2000gp ?

Or is this overridden by the general rule in the SRD, saying: "While item creation costs are handled in detail below, note that normally the two primary factors are the caster level of the creator and the level of the spell or spells put into the item. A creator can create an item at a lower caster level than her own, but never lower than the minimum level needed to cast the needed spell. Using metamagic feats, a caster can place spells in items at a higher level than normal." and thus will cost 4 X caster level X 2000gp ?

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

First of all, players never get to determine the base price of any custom magic item, even when the rules are mostly clear such as the case with wands, scrolls, or these runes. It's always up to the DM to decide what a given custom magic item's base price is.

Regarding reduced and alternate metamagic costs, the answer is fairly simple. Either you imbue the item to also mimic the reduced or alternate cost for an increase to the item's base price, or you use the metamagic feat's normal printed level increase when determining the item's base price.

In this case, you would need to imbue the item to be able to use Residual Magic, which requires Spellcraft 12 ranks, so I'd say the cost of adding that should be at least 12x12x100 gp, but there's not really any standard or precedent for adding feats to items. Residual magic only makes the metamagic free every other time the spell is cast, so effective spell level 4 half the time, effective spell level 2 half the time, averages out to an overall effective spell level of 3.

Also keep in mind, "The minimum caster level is that which is needed to meet the prerequisites given. (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicItems/magicItemBasics.htm#casterLevel)" For this specific item, the prerequisites would include Residual Magic which has no minimum caster level requirement, but does require a minimum character level of 9th, which should be reflected in the prerequisites and thus the minimum caster level.

So 3 (average spell level) x 9 (caster level) x 2,000 gp, plus 12x12x100 gp, for a total base price of 68,400 gp, and a crafting cost of 34,200 gp and 2,736 xp.

If you skip the shenanigans, it's just 4 (metamagic spell level) x 7 (minimum for a 4th level spell slot) x 2,000 gp, base price 56,000 gp, crafting cost 28,000 gp, 2,240 xp.

Even if you ignore the Residual Magic prerequisites for the minimum caster level, the actual spell level half the time is 4, so the minimum caster level is still 7th, and the residual magic version's base price is still 400 gp higher.

[lolcat]

Thanks, i did not think about the minimum level for the Residual Magic feat, thanks for pointing that out! Minimum caster level 9 for using this feat it is then.

Concerning the Rune having to have the feat itself, i don't quite understand that.The Rune does not "cast" the spell, it just is triggered the way it was cast into it at the point of creation. Just like a scroll or wand wouldn't need to contain a feat, i.e. if they contained a "Necrotic X" spell.

Maybe i just misunderstood another rule of item creation here, how exactly do you figure the rune would need to emulate the feat instead of just serving as a "storage" of the spell as is when cast into it?

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

The item's base price is based on how powerful the item's effect is.

A 2nd level spell with a +2 metamagic feat has the power of a 4th level spell. Regardless of what level spell slot your character uses to cast that spell, the item still has the power of a 4th level spell, so the spell level in the base price calculation should be 4th.

[Necroticplague]

Inscribing a rune is not casting a spell, so Residual Magic is irrelevant.

[lolcat]

Rune Magic explicitly states that to create a rune you cast the spell. "If you know Inscribe Rune, any divine spell you currently have prepared can instead be cast as a rune." Even the creation time has a flat 10-minute part for the rune itself + the casting time. Seems crystal clear to me.

I've given the topic some more thought yesterday and i guess there are three ways to see it.


Rule 0: The DM prices these things in a "black box" manner on a case-by-case basis. This makes item-creators nigh unpredictable for the player but gives maximum control to the DM.
The rules need fixing: Nowhere in the rules do we deal with the term "spell power". This is an oversight that i.e. allows spell-level reducing to create items cheaper than intended. Custom items are OP in many cases in comparison to regular ones, so this should be fixed by disallowing any type of spell-level reduction when creating items.
Using RuneMagic as written: Creating runes involves casting the spell into the rune once. When you cast a spell modified by metamagic, there are ways to reduce the total spell level, be it by feats or class features (i.e. Incantatrix). Since the cost of the rune specifically uses "spell level", use the actual spell level when the spell is cast to determine item price. This gives PC's quick and relatively a bit cheaper access to magic items, which could unbalance an unprepared game.


As a DM, i've always used the basic approach of "If you can use it, so can i.". This has pretty much prevented any rule abuse in my campaigns, also in the current one which has been running for well over a year now.

I guess it comes down to what basic approach you prefer in your game. My thought is that transparency increases fun in the game and rule-patches should only be applied if a) the players make the game worse by using RAW, b)fun in the game can be increased by a simple tweak (i.e. not using death from massive damage rules), or c) it is so unclear that a decision needs to be made.

[Necroticplague]

Rune Magic explicitly states that to create a rune you cast the spell. "If you know Inscribe Rune, any divine spell you currently have prepared can instead be cast as a rune." Even the creation time has a flat 10-minute part for the rune itself + the casting time. Seems crystal clear to me.

And? The rest of it doesn't mention casting the rune at all, so that amounts to nothing but a pile of fluff.
In fact, if inscribing a rune is casting a spell, a lot of the rules in Rune Magic would be unnecesary, since they'd already be covered by the basic spellcasting rules.
like this:

When you create a rune, you can set the caster level at anywhere from the minimum caster level necessary to cast the spell in question and no higher than your own level. When you create a rune, you make any choices that you would normally make when casting the spell.
You can already do both of these when casting a spell. So if making a rune was casting a spell, there would be no need for these passages. Therefore, inscribing a rune is not casting a spell.

[lolcat]

It explicitly says that it means casting the spell & then reiterates the rules exactly as they are for casting the spell. Therefore it's not casting the spell. Huh?