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View Full Version : Player Help Need an advice on a different type of melee character



Erdinger
2018-02-11, 05:07 PM
We are getting close to the end of the campign and I've already started to think what will be my next build...
Since I've never liked playing casters and divine casters, I enjoy melee build, There's a challenge in that as I can see it.
Now, I've already played almost full fighter (very similer to Jack B.Quick build {two weapon fighting chain, Trip, double hit and all those stuff), I also tried Ubercharger (with Revenant Blade).
Now my intentions are playing a large spear kinda guy, a noble fighter. But i'm really out of ideas. I want him to be chrismatic, strong and a bit agile). Thought of Warblade at the start but I am not quite sure yet.(Warblade uses intellegence for his main mental ability)
Any ideas would be welcome.

What's not allowed: Dragon Magazine, spirit barbrians.
Basically, anything chessy enough would be off the table. It can be strong, but not broken.

Thanks in advance

Biffoniacus_Furiou
2018-02-11, 05:55 PM
How about an inquisitor? Go Cloistered Cleric 1/ Paladin 19 for your build, focus on Str, Con, and Cha.

Trade your free Knowledge domain for Knowledge Devotion, and pick Arcana for the knowledge class skill. Put at least one rank in every knowledge skill that identifies creatures (arcana, dungoneering, local, nature, religion, the planes), so you always get at least +1 to attack and damage against every opponent from that feat. Also trade a domain for Law Devotion, and your last domain should be Inquisition. You'll use your Cleric turn undead uses to power divine feats like Law Devotion.

Trade your Paladin turn undead ability for Divine Counterspell in Complete Mage. Be sure to get the Kn: Arcana ranks for the +2 bonus, and the Inquisition domain's +4 bonus on dispel checks will apply to that. You can also probably increase the check by wearing items that improve your effective level for turn undead, like an ephod of authority, phylactery of undead turning, etc.

Take the feat Divine Defiance in FCII, that allows you to spend a turn undead use from Cleric to attempt a counterspell as an immediate action, without readying it ahead of time. Use that to activate Divine Counterspell, so you can counter an enemy spellcaster on the fly without sacrificing any of your attacks.

Also consider trading your special mount for either Charging Smite in PH2 for big charge attacks, or Underdark Knight in CC for more utility if you expect to spend a reasonable amount of time underground.

I'd make the character some type of Dwarf, probably an Earth Dwarf (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/races/elementalRacialVariants.htm#racesOfEarth) from UA despite the Cha penalty. Per CW p154 you can treat any two exotic Dwarven weapons as martial instead of the two specifically stated in the Dwarf entry, so use a Dwarven Warpike in RoS. That's a reach weapon, so also wear armor spikes so you threaten adjacent squares. Be sure to have a Wand Chamber in your weapon, you'll be able to use wands of any Cleric or Paladin spells.

Your 1st level Paladin spells should all be Rhino's Rush, and you can get a bunch of 1st level Pearls of Power to use that more often. Your 2nd level Paladin spells should all be Knight's Move, by that time you'll probably be able to afford a few 2nd level pearls if you want, but those shouldn't be necessary. Your Cleric spells can be used for utility, such as casting Endure Elements on yourself every day, casting Sign before going into a fight, Ebon Eyes when needed, Ice Slick to trip up an opponent, etc.

Per the Rules Compendium, spell trigger and spell completion items (wand, staff, scroll) take the same action to activate as the casting time of the spell being used. So a Wand of Rhino's Rush or a Wand of Knight's Move are a swift action to use, and you can put one of those in a wand chamber of your weapon.

I'd probably get Power Attack and Leap Attack with a valorous weapon, and use Charging Smite with Rhino's Rush for some huge charge hits, but you said you'd already played a charger. In this case you may want to go for the utility of Underdark Knight, but still have decent charge hits with Rhino's Rush. Consider taking Earth Devotion as well, it can automatically ruin an opponent's charge and they've already spent their full-round action to attempt the charge so they can't do anything else that turn, plus they'll need to make a balance check or fall prone.

Biffoniacus_Furiou
2018-02-11, 08:46 PM
Is this something that works RAW or more like a thing that should be allowed cause of counterspelling not being so good normally?
I'm not trying to say it doesnt work btw, just wondering how exactly they combine as it's hard to follow for me after reading them.

It definitely works by RAW.

Divine Defiance allows you to counterspell as an immediate action, but it works exactly the same as a normal counterspell attempt otherwise. It specifically says dispel magic can be used to counterspell with this.

Divine Counterspell says, "This ability functions just as if you were using dispel magic to counter the spell.." so it can definitely be used with Divine Defiance.

Matrota
2018-02-12, 11:55 AM
I looked around quite a bit when I was trying to find a fun spear character build a while back, but mostly came to the conclusion that there's not a much out there for optimizing a spear fighting style beside the classic charge/pounce stuff. In the end, I decided just to optimize bullrush and have fun stabbing a spear into someone and sending them flying into a wall anime style. In case you're interested, the basic idea for the build is as follows.

Go goliath or half giant so you count as large on special attacks. Alternatively, just play something large sized. Take Power Attack, Improved Bullrush, and the Knockback feat (Races of Stone). Two-hand your spear and take the Short Haft feat (PHBII) in case someone gets in close. Play the dungeon crasher fighter ACF and send people flying for hilarious amounts of damage. Optionally, you can take the Power Lunge feat (Ghostwalk) for 2x strength damage on the initial charge attack. As long as your DM is reasonably kind (you're playing a martial character after all), they should allow you the extra dungeon crasher damage from slamming enemies into a wall with knockback, even if they flavor text explains the bonus damage coming from the weight of your body slamming them into the wall. If someone else in your team has a tower shield, you can slam them into that for damage as well.

If you have the feats available, Shape Soulmeld (Mauling Gauntlets) (Magic of Incarnum) give you +2 to all str checks, and if you were to take Bonus Essentia (MoI) you could increase it to +6 with the invested essentia.

With Improved Bullrush, Powerful Build (goliath/half-giant racial feature), Knockback, and Mauling Gauntlets w/ Bonus Essentia, you will have a bonus to every bullrush equal to 14+strength modifier+2x power attack. Not bad. Also, so long as you use power attack every turn, it will also be in effect for attacks of opportunity, making it really difficult for enemies to past you as any power attack allows you to use knockback as a free action, thus turning you into a pinball simulator. If your squishies are being targeted by other melee fighters, stick close to them and keep swatting away.

Biffoniacus_Furiou
2018-02-12, 08:51 PM
What I was mostly not confident about (that is, confident to use this myself some time), were these bits:

From Divine Defiance: "You can spend one of your turn or rebuke undead attempts as an immediate action to counter" - so a SU that I can activate as immediate action, allowing me to counter following the normal rules besides that 1 exception it makes.
From Divine Defiance: "You must have the relevant spell prepared as normal (or dispel magic)." - requiring the spell/dispel and the regular method of spell vs spell of countering since no exception is being made in that regard.

From Divine Counterspell: "You gain the supernatural ability to counter ...." - so here im activating a SU ability, as standard action, not following the regular method of spell vs spell.

So it appeared they dont 'cross' at any point, so to say, or am I reading this wrong?

Divine Defiance specifically says you can use Dispel Magic to counterspell.

Divine Counterspell says, "This ability functions just as if you were using dispel magic to counter the spell.." so any time you could counterspell with Dispel Magic, you can counterspell with Divine Counterspell instead.

That's all you need to consider from each ability regarding whether or not it works.

Biffoniacus_Furiou
2018-02-12, 10:33 PM
I do follow that part, but I couldn't quite line them up to have them interact for this specific part: seeing as the feat talks about using an immediate action to counter spells following a normal method of spell vs. spell, how exactly am I able to use a supernatural ability that normally requires a standard action as an immediate action, as the feat doesn't mention anything about supernatural abilities?

Dispel Magic is a standard action. Most spells are a standard action to cast. Your normally need to ready an action (a standard action) to counterspell an opponent's spell.

Divine Defiance allows you to counterspell using something that would normally take a standard action, but the feat makes it take a swift action and allows you to do it without readying first.

Regardless of whether Divine Counter spell is a supernatural ability, it says it functions just as if you were using dispel magic to counter the spell, so instead of the standard-action dispel magic being usable as an immediate action, the standard-action Divine Counterspell is usable as an immediate action.

If you could use Dispel Magic to counterspell, you can instead use Divine Counterspell to counterspell. Even if that's as an immediate action via activating Divine Defiance.