Why No Deep Halflings?

[Palanan]

We have deep dwarves (duergar), deep elves (drow), deep gnomes (svirfneblins), deep orcs (orogs), and even deep bears (quaggoths).

But why no deep halflings? A small-sized race that’s naturally retiring and supple should be at home in an environment with tight passages, where regular humanoids can’t squeeze through. Their natural stealth would help them avoid predators, not to mention their innate touch of luck.

So they’d seem to be a natural fit, but I’m not aware of a variant along these lines. Is there one? And if not...why not?

[StreamOfTheSky]

http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/halfling.htm#deepHalfling

[Palanan]

What book is that variant from? I looked in the 3.5 Unearthed Arcana but didn't spot it.

[StreamOfTheSky]

What book is that variant from? I looked in the 3.5 Unearthed Arcana but didn't spot it.

Pretty sure it's just in the Monster Manual...

Anyway, I know of it b/c Halflings are supposed to be sneaky rogues, but I'd NEVER play a sneaky rogue w/o Darkvision...kinda limiting if you need a torch, not to mention sneak attack being non-functional in dark alleys thanks to miss chance.
So they're my go-to race if I must be a halfling for my rogue....really, whisper gnome is what halfling should have been.

(Although most of my rogues get the fighter feat variant instead of SA and are front line dex fighters pulling off flashy stunts)

[inuyasha]

I don't think I've ever seen them written as Deep Halflings before. Usually the ones linked to are called "stouts" and there's rumor of dwarf-blood in them, much like tallfellows and elven heritage.

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

They're right in the core Monster Manual, page 149-150.

Although I'd say Whisper Gnomes in RoS are a better fit for a small size stealthy race, especially considering they have both low-light vision and darkvision.

[umbergod]

Oh wow, I've had a monster manual over 10 yrs and i didnt know about deep halflings

[BowStreetRunner]

They are found in the 3.5 Monster Manual (I) on page 150. They have always been listed there as Deep Halflings. The Tallfellow, Hairfoot, and Stout distinctions actually come from earlier versions of D&D.

[StreamOfTheSky]

They're right in the core Monster Manual, page 149-150.

Although I'd say Whisper Gnomes in RoS are a better fit for a small size stealthy race, especially considering they have both low-light vision and darkvision.

Agreed. But sometimes, you just want a halfling-only option. Like the higher ranged SA / lower melee SA, Whisperknife PrC, and/or the amazing Shaped Splash feat. It'd be lovely if your DM would let whisper gnomes count as halflings for those, since they're everything a halfling ever wanted to be, but you can't count on that. For those occasions...the Deep Halfling exists, to at least not suck as bad at its job.

[Palanan]

Originally Posted by umbergod
Oh wow, I've had a monster manual over 10 yrs and i didnt know about deep halflings

I’m so glad there’s someone else in the same situation. :smallredface:



Amazing. I’ve never seen that entry, probably because I’ve never thought to look up halflings in the Monster Manual. And I don’t think I’ve ever seen them mentioned here in the Playground.

In fact, they seem kind of bland. Pretty much “dwarf traits on a halfling,” without anything unique of their own. And there doesn’t seem to be any support or further information in other supplements.

[Thurbane]

Deep Halflings are great: they trade some skill bonuses for Darkvision and Stonecunning.

[Starbuck_II]

We have deep dwarves (duergar), deep elves (drow), deep gnomes (svirfneblins), deep orcs (orogs), and even deep bears (quaggoths).

But why no deep halflings? A small-sized race that’s naturally retiring and supple should be at home in an environment with tight passages, where regular humanoids can’t squeeze through. Their natural stealth would help them avoid predators, not to mention their innate touch of luck.

So they’d seem to be a natural fit, but I’m not aware of a variant along these lines. Is there one? And if not...why not?

Deep Dwarves aren't Duegar, they have no level adjustment, but do have light sensitivity.

[Telonius]

We have deep dwarves (duergar), deep elves (drow), deep gnomes (svirfneblins), deep orcs (orogs), and even deep bears (quaggoths).

But why no deep halflings? A small-sized race that’s naturally retiring and supple should be at home in an environment with tight passages, where regular humanoids can’t squeeze through. Their natural stealth would help them avoid predators, not to mention their innate touch of luck.

So they’d seem to be a natural fit, but I’m not aware of a variant along these lines. Is there one? And if not...why not?

We blames the editors, preciousss...

http://i0.kym-cdn.com/entries/icons/original/000/019/367/gollum_395_394.jpg

[Luccan]

Oh wow, I've had a monster manual over 10 yrs and i didnt know about deep halflings

I didn't ever notice either subrace until I found the SRD. While they both have some flavorful stuff, at a quick glance they seem uninteresting (particularly Tallfellow, who mostly trades skills for skills). Plus, both get rid of their Move Silently bonus, which, while not as useful as Darkvision for some rogues, certainly seems more apparently useful for all rogues. Until you realize it's easy to boost skills.

Meanwhile, Gnomes, Dwarves, and Elves all get much more immediately interesting subraces.

[StreamOfTheSky]

I didn't ever notice either subrace until I found the SRD. While they both have some flavorful stuff, at a quick glance they seem uninteresting (particularly Tallfellow, who mostly trades skills for skills).

http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/disguiseSelf.htm

You can seem 1 foot shorter or taller, thin, fat, or in between.

Tallfellows happen to be the ideal height, right in between medium and small size, such that you can use Disguise Self (such as with the super-cheap Hat of Disguise) on a spy-type character to mimic nearly any humanoid race.

Yes, it's totally not much nor is it exciting, but....*shrug* it's something, I suppose.

They're probably more useful for their existence as a resource to Changelings w/ the hat of disguise (shift into Tallfellow, then disguise as some other race, for a double-layered guise) than they are as a playable race themselves. That's the only time I've gotten any use out of Tallfellow.

[Luccan]

http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/disguiseSelf.htm


Tallfellows happen to be the ideal height, right in between medium and small size, such that you can use Disguise Self (such as with the super-cheap Hat of Disguise) on a spy-type character to mimic nearly any humanoid race.

Yes, it's totally not much nor is it exciting, but....*shrug* it's something, I suppose.

They're probably more useful for their existence as a resource to Changelings w/ the hat of disguise (shift into Tallfellow, then disguise as some other race, for a double-layered guise) than they are as a playable race themselves. That's the only time I've gotten any use out of Tallfellow.

I always forget they get to find secret doors. Not super interesting, but pretty flavorful since they're the elf-blooded halflings. And it's not like no one ever uses the perception skills.

[Psyren]

In PF, Wayangs could fit the bill as a dark counterpart to halflings as well.

[Vaern]

Oh wow, I've had a monster manual over 10 yrs and i didnt know about deep halflings
There are a handful of variants to the basic PC races in the Monster Manual that aren't used as NPCs often enough to be noticed and picked up by players. For example, in addition to Drow, there is a Gray Elf variant which has a bonus to intelligence with no level adjustment. Mental ability score bonuses without a level adjustment are few and far between, so it was an interesting find while thumbing through the book :P

[Palanan]

Originally Posted by Psyren
In PF, Wayangs could fit the bill as a dark counterpart to halflings as well.

Thanks, I’ve become pretty familiar with wayangs here lately. But they’re more shadowy and insubstantial-ey, whereas I was referring to subraces or variants living deep underground, without any particular connection to shadow.


Originally Posted by Vaern
There are a handful of variants to the basic PC races in the Monster Manual that aren't used as NPCs often enough to be noticed and picked up by players. For example, in addition to Drow, there is a Gray Elf variant which has a bonus to intelligence with no level adjustment.

Gorfnab’s Easy Bake Wizard (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?325933-Easy-Bake-Wizard-Handbook) relies on the Gray Elf for just that reason.

[Psyren]

Thanks, I’ve become pretty familiar with wayangs here lately. But they’re more shadowy and insubstantial-ey, whereas I was referring to subraces or variants living deep underground, without any particular connection to shadow.

Thing is, I see little distinction between the two in practice. In FR, the Underdark bleeds/blends into the Plane of Shadow if you go deep enough, and PF's Darklands do the same thing in multiple places. So you could have a race of what amounts to "shadow halflings" pop up as readily underground as anywhere else, and I would argue even moreso.

[umbergod]

There are a handful of variants to the basic PC races in the Monster Manual that aren't used as NPCs often enough to be noticed and picked up by players. For example, in addition to Drow, there is a Gray Elf variant which has a bonus to intelligence with no level adjustment. Mental ability score bonuses without a level adjustment are few and far between, so it was an interesting find while thumbing through the book :P

I knew about the gray elf bc of my caster addiction. Still boggles my mind about deep halflings, bc i know ive spent hours reading that damned Manual

[Thurbane]

This is a decent source of LA +0 subraces: Every playable race in 3.5 D&D without a level adjustment (http://ihititwithmyaxe.tumblr.com/post/9678117696/every-playable-race-in-35-dd-without-a-level)