Is there a better way to do this?

[Yogibear41]

Trying to qualify for Planar Shepherd as a LE Wildshape Variant Planar Ranger. Taking the apprentice feat at level 1 for spellcaster which will let me spontaneously cast 1 spell (summon nature's ally) per day. Thus letting me qualify for Nightbringer initiate, but not until after level 4.

So I have Apprentice at level 1, and Nightbringer Initate as my level 6 feat allowing entry at level 7.

Is there maybe a different feat combination that would let me qualify at an earlier level?


EDIT: Just remember that spontaneous ranger variant from Dragonlance, but that would limit my already limited spells known pretty severely.

[Darrin]

Is there maybe a different feat combination that would let me qualify at an earlier level?


Hmm. Best I can do would be to use Frostblood Half-Orc with Mystic Ranger 5 (assuming you can mix Mystic Ranger with Planar Ranger and the Wild Shape variant). This moves up your spellcasting, so you could take Nightbringer Initiate at 3rd. You can also swap Endurance for a bonus feat at Ranger 4.

Magical Training + Precocious Apprentice could get you SNA II, but that probably involves failing several "smell" tests. If you use flaws, that might get you Nightbringer Initiate at 3rd?

I'm assuming the Divine Minion template (http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/mb/20050209a) is a no-no.

[Darrin]

I tried to make sense of it all a while ago, but both the section the sections in Unearthed Arcana as Dragon Magazine threw me off as they seem to treat these as classes of their own. Unearthed even explains how multiclassing between the original and a variant is possible, so it seems weird to both be able to do that and mix them. Curious if I am missing something?

If you're trying to stick by RAW, then no, they should probably be treated as distinctly different classes. So ACFs and substitutions for the standard PHB ranger should probably not be mixed with variant base classes, such as Mystic Ranger.

HOWEVER... you're already breaking from the existing rules by using a variant base class. And Mystic Ranger has almost all of the standard PHB ranger class features, except some of them are delayed or acquired at different levels. Some people presume that class features can be swapped out like parts in a car.

The Planar Ranger variant in UA doesn't replace anything, it modifies several class features. Planar Mystic Rangers don't get animal companions, but Wild Empathy would change a little, and their spells can affect celestial/fiendish animals.

The Simple (or Wild Shape) Ranger ACF is more of a straight-forward swap. Mystic Rangers *do* have Combat Styles, they just get them a level later than standard rangers. So if you agree with the "equivalent exchange" philosophy of ACFs, then presumably you can swap out your Combat Style for Wild Shape and Fast Movement. (Some proponents might even go so far as to say that you could also swap the Fast Movement for Pounce if you wanted to.)

Does this follow the rules exactly? No. Does it create any game balance issues? No. Mystic Ranger, even with Wild Shape or Sword of the Arcane Order, is not going to do much that breaks the game, or at least nowhere near all the game-breaking stuff that a Core Wizard/Cleric/Druid can do.

[Darrin]

From UA: "With your DM’s permission, you can use any one of these variant classes in place of the standard class of the same name."


That depends on how strictly you want to define "standard class". The PHBII mentions the "eleven standard classes" introduced in the PHB, and also mentions additional classes introduced in supplements. Complete Mage also addresses this: "This section provides alternative class feature options for the eleven classes from the Player's Handbook, as well as some classes from supplements." UA is a supplement, but whether or not the variant classes exist alongside or completely replace the PHB classes is up to the DM: "variant classes may exist side by side with standard classes, or they may replace standard classes entirely." Given that you're dealing with optional rules here that explicitly call for a DM's Call on how they are used, it's difficult to say how much is RAW and how much is Rule Zero.



Assuming I have my DM's permission to swap for example the regular barbarian with a totem barbarian or the regular ranger with the wild shape ranger.

Can I then - since UA seems to say it replaces the original class - for example add improved grab from the spiritual totem alternative class feature to my barbarian or add favored enemy: arcanist to my ranger in place of their regular feature?


If your Barbarian still has the class feature that allows an ACF to be swapped (only Wolf and Horse Totems retain Fast Movement), then a lot of DM's allow this. Spirit Lion Totem with Wolf Totem is popular but somewhat contentious with certain DMs. Likewise, if your variant ranger has Favored Enemy, then they can presumably swap it for the Arcane Hunter ACF or the Rival Organization ACF (Cityscape).

There are some DM's who take it a step further to allow "chaining ACFs", where you get a class feature from an ACF or variant class, and then swap it for another ACF even though your base class is different. For example, the Simple Ranger variant trades away his Combat Style for Wild Shape as a Druid and Fast Movement as a Barbarian. Some DM's would allow you to swap Wild Shape for the Shapeshift ACF from PHBII or swap Fast Movement for Spirit Lion Totem from Complete Champion, even though your ranger is not actually a druid or barbarian. This would be considered by most to be "well outside of RAW".



So basically, is it possible to use a variant in combination with an alternative class feature, while mostly sticking to RAW?
I say mostly because I assume a lot of the specific DMs ruling would matter here, but I am mostly trying work with what is available in the books.

It's difficult to say what is RAW when every option carries a very large "Ask the DM's permission" warning flag. My guess would be that most DM's would consider using an ACF with a variant UA class is "mostly within RAW" or "maybe a little outside of the rules, but not so far enough that it bothers us if we don't stare at it too closely", but chaining through multiple ACFs without the requisite base class is pretty clearly in "WTF are you doing?" territory.

OP: If you take flaws for Favored/Primary Contact (Cityscape) and allow the Divine Minion template with LA Buyoff, then Frostblood Half-Orc Planar Mystic Ranger 4 gets you into Planar Shepherd at level 5.