Whisper Assassin

[Ixil]

Hello there!

I'll be playing in an upcoming campaign. I want to play a sneaky character and was planning on going Assassin / Whisper Bard. Also, probably going Drow (or Shadar-Kai if DM allows it).

We rolled for stats, got 10 10 11 12 15 18.

Is it viable? How would you guys build it?

Thanks in advance!

[Arkhios]

What about Ghostwise Halfling from Sword Coast Adventurer's Guide. You'd get limited telepathy from the race, which would work rather well from the "whispers" point of view.

Stats could be like this:
Str 10, Dex 171, Con 12, Int 10, Wis 122, Cha 18
1 = halfling +2
2 = Ghostwise +1

[Ixil]

What about Ghostwise Halfling from Sword Coast Adventurer's Guide. You'd get limited telepathy from the race, which would work rather well from the "whispers" point of view.

Stats could be like this:
Str 10, Dex 171, Con 12, Int 10, Wis 122, Cha 18
1 = halfling +2
2 = Ghostwise +1


That could also be an option... though I'm not a fan of Ghostwise for this kind of character, considering they are more like "wild" halflings... But definitely doable... How would you split levels?

[Specter]

What's important to know about Assassin is that most of the time, you'll be using only the advantage benefit - the surprise will be rare because surprise is rare, especially on an armored party.

[Ixil]

What's important to know about Assassin is that most of the time, you'll be using only the advantage benefit - the surprise will be rare because surprise is rare, especially on an armored party.

So, would it be worth it to multiclass, considering what said?

[Crgaston]

So, would it be worth it to multiclass, considering what said?

It really depends on your campaign, DM and playstyle. Bard/rogue is the ultimate skill monkey. You can get surprise relatively often if you scout and plan appropriately and have a high enough stealth modifier, but it only affects the first round of combat. Arcane Trickster would hurt your casting progression less and give you some more known spells, slots and cantrips while still keeping the skills and Sneak Attack damage, which you can stack with your Psychic Blades anyway, so you'll be pretty lethal regardless.

Still, Whisper Assassin is an incredibly cool concept, and doubling both SA and Psychic Blades with a crit is ferocious.

With a Drow, You could go 10 17 11 10 12 19 after racial modifiers and use your first ASI to bump Dex and Cha, then your second on resilient Con. Or if you just embrace your squishiness, swap the Con and Wis scores and take Observant for your 2nd ASI.

As for progression, there's so many good ways to build that combo. I'd probably aim for Bard 5/Rogue 3 as a baseline, maybe Something like this...

1. Rogue 1 for the 1 extra skill, SA, Expertise (Stealth and Deception) and Int save prof. You'll have a decent Cha save from your stat.
2. Bard 1 to get your spell slots and concept rolling (Dissonant Whispers, Faerie Fire)
3. Rogue 2 for the cunning Action. Your mobility is going to be key to your survival. Stay out of the fray and plink at enemies with a shortbow and Sneak Attack. 2d6+3 doesn't suck at all, and if one of your party members is in trouble, use Vicious Mockery to give their attacker disadvantage.
4. Bard 2 for Jack of All Trades and Song of Rest
5. Bard 3 for College, Expertise (Insight or Perception and Persuasion) and 2nd level spells (Heat Metal, Suggestion)
6. Bard 4 +1 Dex and Cha
7. Bard 5 for 3rd level spells (Clairvoyance, Hypnotic Pattern), d8 for your inspiration, and regaining inspiration on a short rest
8. Rogue 3 for your Archetype and 2d6 SA
9. Rogue 4 for the ASI (Resilient or Observant)
10+ Rogue 5 is a nice bump with 3d6 SA and Uncanny Dodge, but so is increasing your caster level. By this time you'll have a better idea on whether your character is a Bard who is extra-murdery or an Assassin who uses his Bardiness as a tool. Build accordingly.

[Easy_Lee]

I hope I'm not offering unwanted advice, but Assassin is a trap option if your DM follows the rules as written.

There are no surprise rounds this edition. Instead, a creature is surprised up until the end of its first turn in combat if your stealth check beats its passive perception. As a result, you not only must surprise the target, but must also win initiative.

This means a rogue assassin can sneak up on an enemy, surprise them, roll a bad initiative, and the target takes their turn, gaining their reaction and no longer being surprised before the rogue attacks, preventing auto critical hit from the assassinate feature.

Add to the above: many players will foil your attempts to surprise enemies because they want to charge suddenly and blindly into combat. These jackasses (from your point of view) will ruin your fun by insisting on having their fun.

Add to the above: many DMs enjoy surprising the players. I've played at tables where surprise is impossible nine times out of ten. Either enemies are on "high alert," whatever the hell that means, and are DM fiat immune to surprise, or the players aren't allowed to move stealthily even if they ask and thus the enemy notices them at the same time.

Assassinate seldom goes off in a typical game for these reasons. I've seen entire campaigns go by where the assassin never gets to assassinate even one target.

[Ixil]

It really depends on your campaign, DM and playstyle. Bard/rogue is the ultimate skill monkey. You can get surprise relatively often if you scout and plan appropriately and have a high enough stealth modifier, but it only affects the first round of combat. Arcane Trickster would hurt your casting progression less and give you some more known spells, slots and cantrips while still keeping the skills and Sneak Attack damage, which you can stack with your Psychic Blades anyway, so you'll be pretty lethal regardless.

Still, Whisper Assassin is an incredibly cool concept, and doubling both SA and Psychic Blades with a crit is ferocious.

With a Drow, You could go 10 17 11 10 12 19 after racial modifiers and use your first ASI to bump Dex and Cha, then your second on resilient Con. Or if you just embrace your squishiness, swap the Con and Wis scores and take Observant for your 2nd ASI.

As for progression, there's so many good ways to build that combo. I'd probably aim for Bard 5/Rogue 3 as a baseline, maybe Something like this...

1. Rogue 1 for the 1 extra skill, SA, Expertise (Stealth and Deception) and Int save prof. You'll have a decent Cha save from your stat.
2. Bard 1 to get your spell slots and concept rolling (Dissonant Whispers, Faerie Fire)
3. Rogue 2 for the cunning Action. Your mobility is going to be key to your survival. Stay out of the fray and plink at enemies with a shortbow and Sneak Attack. 2d6+3 doesn't suck at all, and if one of your party members is in trouble, use Vicious Mockery to give their attacker disadvantage.
4. Bard 2 for Jack of All Trades and Song of Rest
5. Bard 3 for College, Expertise (Insight or Perception and Persuasion) and 2nd level spells (Heat Metal, Suggestion)
6. Bard 4 +1 Dex and Cha
7. Bard 5 for 3rd level spells (Clairvoyance, Hypnotic Pattern), d8 for your inspiration, and regaining inspiration on a short rest
8. Rogue 3 for your Archetype and 2d6 SA
9. Rogue 4 for the ASI (Resilient or Observant)
10+ Rogue 5 is a nice bump with 3d6 SA and Uncanny Dodge, but so is increasing your caster level. By this time you'll have a better idea on whether your character is a Bard who is extra-murdery or an Assassin who uses his Bardiness as a tool. Build accordingly.

Thanks!!! I'm starting to see where I have to go with it...

[Ixil]

I hope I'm not offering unwanted advice, but Assassin is a trap option if your DM follows the rules as written.

There are no surprise rounds this edition. Instead, a creature is surprised up until the end of its first turn in combat if your stealth check beats its passive perception. As a result, you not only must surprise the target, but must also win initiative.

This means a rogue assassin can sneak up on an enemy, surprise them, roll a bad initiative, and the target takes their turn, gaining their reaction and no longer being surprised before the rogue attacks, preventing auto critical hit from the assassinate feature.

Add to the above: many players will foil your attempts to surprise enemies because they want to charge suddenly and blindly into combat. These jackasses (from your point of view) will ruin your fun by insisting on having their fun.

Add to the above: many DMs enjoy surprising the players. I've played at tables where surprise is impossible nine times out of ten. Either enemies are on "high alert," whatever the hell that means, and are DM fiat immune to surprise, or the players aren't allowed to move stealthily even if they ask and thus the enemy notices them at the same time.

Assassinate seldom goes off in a typical game for these reasons. I've seen entire campaigns go by where the assassin never gets to assassinate even one target.

The DM is a lot helpful to players who want to go sneaky, fortunately! 😉

[Easy_Lee]

The DM is a lot helpful to players who want to go sneaky, fortunately! 😉

More power to you, then. 😉

Rogue / Whisper bard is fine. You can make this build a little stronger by using bard to pick up a weapon cantrip from SCAG. Auto-crit on Booming Blade means that many more dice to double. Also consider Shadow Blade from Xanathar's, the premier assassin weapon if you can get it. Those extra dice are also doubled.

If you take five levels of bard, you can pick up haste. This lets you make a haste attack then Ready an attack for as soon as the next creature in line acts. By doing so, you can sneak attack twice in one round. The bonus AC and movement speed are also nice, but beware anything that might break your concentration.

[Ixil]

More power to you, then. 😉

Rogue / Whisper bard is fine. You can make this build a little stronger by using bard to pick up a weapon cantrip from SCAG. Auto-crit on Booming Blade means that many more dice to double. Also consider Shadow Blade from Xanathar's, the premier assassin weapon if you can get it. Those extra dice are also doubled.

If you take five levels of bard, you can pick up haste. This lets you make a haste attack then Ready an attack for as soon as the next creature in line acts. By doing so, you can sneak attack twice in one round. The bonus AC and movement speed are also nice, but beware anything that might break your concentration.

Liking it already! Unfortunately, though, both Haste and Shadow Blade are concentration... 😢

[Easy_Lee]

Liking it already! Unfortunately, though, both Haste and Shadow Blade are concentration... 😢

Right. Haste is useful in a prolonged battle while shadow blade is great for assassinations and in areas of dim light.

[Ixil]

Would the UA Shadar-kai be worth it for this build?