Warlock archer competative?

[Waazraath]

Looking trough Xanathar's, I see the following:
- invocation "improved pact weapon" allows longbows (among others) as pactweapon, and +1 to hit / +1 to damage with pact weapon
- invocation "eldritch smite" works with any pact weapon, not just melee
- hexblade gives cha to attack/dam with a weapon
The PhB has:
- an invocation that gives a 2nd attack (thirsting blade)
- an invocation that adds cha to damage (lifedrinker)
- has sharp shooter feat, for (among others +10 dam / -5 to hit)
- has the archery fighting style (for fighter 1).

Lets take a warlock 12 / fighter 1

Adding all of this, you get:
- base damage of 1d8 + 5 (cha) +5 (cha invocation) +1 (improved pact weapon); av 15,5
- extra smite damage (max 3/short rest): 6d8 (av 27, and knock prone at will)
- bonus action: hex for 3,5 dam, or hexblade's curse for +5 damage and double crit range
- base attack 5 (prof) + 5 + 2 (archery style) + 1 (improved pact weapon): 1d20 +13
Maxed out damage:
1st round: with sharp shooter + hexblade's curse: 1d20 + 8, for 30,5 damage + 27 smite = 115 damage, and knock prone.

That's not bad, is it? A very SAD build, with two attacks, at will, for 50+ damage (including sharp shooter), that is very easy to upgrade with a bonus action (hex/ hexblade curse, or even banishing smite), and which you can go nova on. It uses up quite a large part of the build (patron, 4 invocations, pact boon). BUT: even if you use all spell slots on smite and nova damage, you still have 2 invocations free, have the specter buddy (hexblade 6), a strong defensive reaction (armor of hexes), and a 6th level spell (mystic arcanum). Of course you can spend less slots on smite and keep them free for utility, area damage, bfc, or the like.

What I was wondering: how does this compare to other warlocks, both EB-blasters and melee bladelocks? Both in damage, as in how much room the builds leave for other stuff (utility etc.).

[Easy_Lee]

If you combine it with darkness and devil's sight, Elven Accuracy at 4, and Sharpshooter at 8, you will beat any pure-classed EB warlock for damage. Add in Eldritch Smite, misty step, and thunderstep / dimension door, and you have a competitive ranged character who can consistently deal ranged damage while keeping himself safe. You sacrifice your pact, other feat choices, and several invocations to do this. The damage is not quite as good as the same on a melee GWM hexblade but you will inconvenience your allies less by casting darkness on yourself at range.

Works best with a partner also willing to cast darkness, such as a shadow sorcerer or even an identical warlock archer. Note that thunderstep can carry two people. This trivializes certain encounters.

[Vogie]

It's certainly up there with that build.

If you don't want to follow the Mystic Arcanum and invocation train, you can dip more into Fighter as well. Action surge to double your attacks and you can either go Arcane Archer (Banishing Arrow and Shadow Arrow can be a decent way to supplant Banishing smite and Darkness without spending spell slots) or everyone's favorite Battle master Maneuvers.

[Waazraath]

Thnx for the replies.

@easy: yeah, I left darkness/devil's sight out on purpose, because using it takes a round to set up and when using the eldritch smite invocation, adding another spell to the combo doesn't seem too logical (you are short on spell slots as it is). That can be covered by teaming up with an ally that provides the darkness, but that makes it less easy for (dpr) comparisons. Still, valid points. One of the reasons I'm starting to be more attracted to the fey patron, is greater invisibility. It's less situational and more reliable than darkness, it doesn't need the devil's sight invocation, and works great with elven accuracy. For a half elf blastlock, for example. That's also pretty decent damage, given that all EB's will almost certainly hit with 3d20!

@vogie: yeah, I was considering adding more fighter levels at later level, really like the arcane archer idea; wouldn't have come up with it myself, since I thought the subclass in general underwhelming, but for this specific build it both has relevant abilities as well as the right flavor.

[Slim]

Thnx for the replies.

@easy: yeah, I left darkness/devil's sight out on purpose, because using it takes a round to set up and when using the eldritch smite invocation, adding another spell to the combo doesn't seem too logical (you are short on spell slots as it is). That can be covered by teaming up with an ally that provides the darkness, but that makes it less easy for (dpr) comparisons. Still, valid points. One of the reasons I'm starting to be more attracted to the fey patron, is greater invisibility. It's less situational and more reliable than darkness, it doesn't need the devil's sight invocation, and works great with elven accuracy. For a half elf blastlock, for example. That's also pretty decent damage, given that all EB's will almost certainly hit with 3d20!

@vogie: yeah, I was considering adding more fighter levels at later level, really like the arcane archer idea; wouldn't have come up with it myself, since I thought the subclass in general underwhelming, but for this specific build it both has relevant abilities as well as the right flavor.

Shadow of Moil is an easy way to get advantage as well.

[Corran]

One thing you might struggle with is what you will be doing when enemies engage you in melee.
Using a spell slot to misty step (or alternatively on darkness/SoM, with the aim of denying OA's) uses slots which is a bummer for warlocks, especially for ones who can smite, since they are even more pressed for slots (also, darkness/SoM require concentration, so that can be a problem if you were already concentrating on something else). And switching to melee is also hurting you, not because you are terrible in melee, but because you have specialized so much for ranged fighting, that melee is terrible by comparison to your ranged capabilities. You might want to take the opportunity attack in some cases, though unlike an EB repelling blaster you cannot hope to just outrun enemies (wood elf or halfelf variant might help a little bit here sometimes) and will have to count exclusively on your allies for battlefield control for when things come to that. So, your positioning on the battlefield is something you will really want to be careful about.



Some ways to help you deal with the melee scenario without having to rely on spell slots (other than just taking the OA and hoping to outrun enemies; not very viable IMO), are the following:

1) Crossbow expert feat. That way, you can keep firing from melee. The pros are that a lot of your features synergize well with that bonus action attack (eg sharpshooter, lifedrinker), though there is certainly a bonus action clog that will show up in play (especially if/whenever you are using hex). The good thing about this solution, is that it allows you to operate at your usual max efficiency even if you are engaged. The bad thing is that you are still a squishy buildcaught into melee, so you are probably still going down (btw, tomb of Levistus is a good invocation that you should get at some point). Decreases your ranged too, which is a bummer for dpr and nova builds. Overall I'd say pass.

2) Play a goblin. Bonus action disengage and hide at will. Now, that very good. The downside is that you'll have to downgrade to a shortbow (no big deal really, as the bulk of your damage comes from flat bonuses) and that you dont start with a charisma bump. The last one sucks for someone as SAD as a hexblade archer (especially for a sharpshooter one), but this might be a very good trade, depending on your campaign encounters/ style of your DM. Eladrin (for free misty step 1/ s? rest) and drow or halfelf drow (darkness 1/day without expending a slot) are solutions in the same line as the goblin, the trade value is just different.

3) Two levels of rogue (my favorite). Best benefits, but requires two levels of investment. Unless you are planning to make the absolutely most out of the rogue levels (eg rely significantly on skills so that expertise is valuable, rely on cunning action not just for disengaging, but for mobility that serves as part of a tactic, like for example if planning to use devil's sight when you can for action free and resource free advantage, as Easy Lee suggesetd, and also if you were perhaps planning to take a 3rd rogue level to combine assassinate with ES and banishing smite among other things), you are better off with a goblin. The real cost here is delaying your warlock levels significantly, and to the point where you probably do not want to dip into fighter at all.

4) Last but not least, you could just plan to rely on darkness/SoM anyway. So you are using one slot both for generating advantage and for getting out of melee if engaged. Popular approach, but it has its issues. Uses slots that could go into other things (and the duration is not stellar, so that means that it will be really pressing you for resources), concentration can be lost so that means your escape option is not as reliable, takes up an action to set up. Another negative is that you have to commit your concentration to it, which is not great for any fullcaster. Definitely your go-to approach if you intend to squeeze every dpr point out of that build (or if you are aiming at playing a crit-fishing build), but overall I am not convinced it's worth shoehorning your build into a dpr machine with the occasional or random spike from smites. You are still a caster afterall. True, your spell list may not be the best out there, but accessing spells at fullcaster speed means that you wont be lacking options. And the best ones use your concentration.

Definitely seconding Easy Lee's suggestion about devil's sight. Action free and slot free advantage is a big deal for a sharpshooter build at the cost of one invocation, even if its conditional.

Hex and lifedrinker dont have the best synergy with sharpshooter. The archery fighting style, especially if somehow it is combined with advantage, can help make the -5/+10 aspect of sharpshooter more effective/reliable when you are also applying bonus flat damage from sources like hex and/or lifedrinker. Hex will gradually start losing value after warlock 5 and once you start getting better options for your concentration, but it is still a spell that can help you economize your slots sometimes, so for that alone it is worth keeping (notice though how it will eventually end up being much more of a situational thing rather than a consistent use of your concentration, especially after warlock 11 when you'll get your 3rd slot and start getting mystic arcana). Unless you are planning on using slots mostly for generating advantage, dont feel committed to taking lifedrinker. It will still be a good invocation, but it wont be a must-have.

Damage comparisons aside, the greatest advantage an archer hexblade has over EB warlocks, is that it can nova. And going nova from range can be great. And as ranged builds go, your mid level nova is one of the best (maybe even the best) out there. That's also a benefit you have compared to most other archers too (with the gloomstalker -especially if mc'd with fighter for action surge and high level samurais offering some good competition). The best way to go about your nova, is to frontload both an ES and a banishing smite against an enemy glass canon, with the aim of killing it or denying its action from turn one). You can get more out of this if you have fast (ie good initiative) and hard hitting (dpr but even better nova) allies, who can do the same thing. In which case you might want to ready an action and deliver your nova just after your ally went, but before the enemy does. The downside is that you are now counting on just one attack to hit, rather than if you were going normally on your turn when you would only require one of the two attacks to hit for nova delivery (something like the lucky feat can help you tremendously here). The benefit is that by combining with an ally in that regard, you'll be able to kill or deny actions to biff-ier targets than you otherwise would if on your own when attempting this.

ES is also good for knocking fliers to the ground. Not all archers or even casters have this option.



Edit:
In short, every archer build (or any built based on EB spamming) can and should boost their dpr, cause it makes sense for a ranged build up its damage. Contrary to most other ''archer'' builds, your biggest benefit is how you can go nova, and not if your deal 5 less or 5 more points of dpr. So optimize with that in mind. Ie, effective/ tactical uses of your nova, ie when to do it and how to do it. Boost your dpr, it's still important, but dont make everything about it. When committing to boosting your dpr comes at the expense of making your use of nova less effective, well, that's more than just diminishing returns. That's hurting your build's strong points.

The biggest downside you have compared to most other ''archer'' (or caster) builds, is that you dont have a (cost) effective way of getting out of melee combat (or alternatively, that your melee options are not good enough to make staying into melee a good idea).

[Xoronis]

3) Two levels of rogue (my favorite).

On the topic of this improvement, I've been wanting to try a Warlock 5/Assassin Rogue 3 build to really lean into the nova aspect if I can get the drop on someone. Auto crit with dumping in an Eldritch Smite on top of Sneak Attack, at range no less, feels like it would be really juicy.

This is really a "salt to taste" kind of recommendation though, if your DM doesn't give you many opportunities to Assassinate the third level of Rogue doesn't give you a whole lot

[truemane]

Metamagic Mod: better to contemplate the horrors of Necromancy.