3.5 Telepathy Questions

[Tyrant]

I have a few questions about the limitations of the Telepathy ability in 3.5. If it matters, this would primarily involve an Ulitharid using it's telepathy. My main question is what are the parameters of what can be done with this power? I understand the straightforward use of direct mental communication. However, what if the other party doesn't want to talk? Can the Ulitharid continue to project it's words/thoughts into the recipients mind much the same way you can't stop hearing someone talking unless they actually shut up? Would it be possible to somehow use this to either slowly drive someone crazy or possibly bend them to the Ulitharid's will (over time, presumably)? Or could it force a response through constant badgering?

Could this power be used to find out if someone else is nearby (within the range of the power)? Either through some kind of psychic "ping" (like a sonar "ping") that the sender can somehow determine was received (though not knowing exactly where the recipient is located) or just some innate part of the power that says there is a possible recipient nearby?

Given the mental nature of the power, is it limited to verbal communication or can images/symbols/ideas be transmitted like this?

Thanks for any help anyone can offer.

[Goaty14]

SRD (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/specialAbilities.htm#telepathy)

A creature with this ability can communicate telepathically with any other creature within a certain range (specified in the creature’s entry, usually 100 feet) that has a language. It is possible to address multiple creatures at once telepathically, although maintaining a telepathic conversation with more than one creature at a time is just as difficult as simultaneously speaking and listening to multiple people at the same time.

Some creatures have a limited form of telepathy, while others have a more powerful form of the ability.


However, what if the other party doesn't want to talk? Can the Ulitharid continue to project it's words/thoughts into the recipients mind much the same way you can't stop hearing someone talking unless they actually shut up?
I guess, since it compares multiple uses of telepathy with multiple people speaking

Would it be possible to somehow use this to either slowly drive someone crazy or possibly bend them to the Ulitharid's will (over time, presumably)? Or could it force a response through constant badgering?
As much as you could by talking to them. Genuinely controlling their mind or similar would involve a magic system.

Could this power be used to find out if someone else is nearby (within the range of the power)? Either through some kind of psychic "ping" (like a sonar "ping") that the sender can somehow determine was received (though not knowing exactly where the recipient is located) or just some innate part of the power that says there is a possible recipient nearby?
Mindsight, a feat from I-forget-where, does exactly this. So it's presumed you can't do this without said feat.


Given the mental nature of the power, is it limited to verbal communication or can images/symbols/ideas be transmitted like this?
Can only affect creatures with a language, thus, you couldn't project images to a creature without a language, but I think it'd be limited to "verbal" communication.

[Segev]

Yeah, the Ulitharid can make Diplomacy checks and Bluff checks by projecting its thoughts at people, but that's it. They can't "not hear" him, though they can try to tune him out. He's probably going to need to Diplomacy them into being willing to listen to him, really.

He can't mind-control them, but if he's charismatic enough, he might be able to "bend people to his will" in the same fashion as any high-charisma, high-diplomacy character who can keep calling out from a point where he can be heard.

And yes, you need the Mindsight feat (which an Ulitharid would qualify for) to get a blindsense-like ability to locate thinking creatures in your telepathic radius.

[Tyrant]

To clarify, I'm not asking about straight up mind control. He's a Mind Mage so that can probably be achieved via either his magic or psionics. I'm asking about more subtle, creative uses. Things the rules might not directly cover. If it helps, ignore the stated source and just go with the ability in general. How does the recipient perceive the message? Do they somehow know it's a hostile presence or can it readily be mistaken for an internal voice? Is there anything really saying it can't be used to slowly drive someone crazy?

As far as Mindsight, I'm not talking about knowing their exact location. I'm talking about just knowing someone is within the range of the character's telepathy at the ambiguous location of "somewhere". Their location is irrelevant. I guess what I am asking here is what is safe to assume in how this power has to work to actually function beyond the single paragraph?

Given the responses (thanks, by the way), I want to be clear that this is more a curiosity question than searching for some kind of way to bend or break the system or make the ability more powerful than it appears to be. This is my wanting to know what the limits of the ability are.

Edit to add: Speculation is entirely welcome. I'm relatively certain there aren't rules answers to these questions.

[Segev]

By the rules, without Mindsight, you have no means of knowing somebody is in range of your telepathy without using your other senses and determining it thusly. You could theoretically broadcast "anybody there?" type messages, and see if anybody chose to reply back. You can even theoretically exclude people you know are there by the same mechanism you can target specific people you know are there. Since you can't tell who's who, however, until they respond back or you use other senses, no way to say "Bob, are you in range of my telepathy?" to just Bob until you've established contact with him. The rules ARE fuzzy on this, though, so...*shrug*

As to tricking people into thinking it's an internal voice, that sounds like a Bluff check.

Driving somebody mad would be...very difficult. Though convincing them they were going mad due to "voices in their head" might be more doable. More bluff checks, really.

Might also be able to Bluff them into thinking they heard-with-their-ears your voice-in-their-head, getting them to react to it out loud or the like.

One mean trick, if you can do this, would be to say something to them telepathically and act confused when they respond verbally. Have one publicly heard conversation that is totally innocuous or even very polite, while you slip barbs and insults and threats into it telepathically in ways that ensure he thinks you said it out loud (again, Bluff checks). As he gets more and more irate over what he thinks is obvious pointed insults, everyone around sees him getting angry at perfectly normal conversation for no reason, and even ranting about you saying things they clearly witnessed you NOT saying.

Finally, it's not a "hostile" presence unless you set out to make it so, or they know you're the one saying it and they find you hostile. It's just telepathic communication.

[Falontani]

This is completely homebrew, but it is something I have used in the past.
Several "stages" of telepathy exist. The most basic form is that of the familiar master bond.

They can telepathically communicate emotions. It is an empathic link binding the two of them.

The next step would be words. Being able to convey a message would be the lower forms of telepathy, like that of the Ghastly Halfling.

The next step is higher telepathy, being able to impart senses. This could be pictures, smells, sounds, the feeling of being touched. I would put this only at the higher levels of telepathy, most likely that of the mind flayer or Telepath.

Finally is raw information. Rather than spending a time giving someone something they will understand just overload everything. A good example of this would be the beacon from Mass Effect. This would definitely be in the range of the most powerful telepaths, the overmind that illithids revere, and creatures that the lovecraftian mythos would employ.

[Tyrant]

I guess I should've mentioned my own view (up to this point) in the opening post. I'm having difficulty conceptualizing how this is supposed to actually work. Maybe I'm overthinking (or under thinking) it, or maybe I'm just too used to how it works in other media, but it seems to me that a character with telepathy would know others were there even if they don't "answer".

Here's how I'm envisioning it. The telepath can speak to others mentally. That's the basic description of the power. But how does that conversation actually work? The telepath broadcasts a message and the other person responds. But does the telepath broadcasting the message somehow initiate a psychic link of some kind? And if so, does the other character have to consciously choose to answer? How do they even know how to do that? I'm assuming the vast majority of characters have no experience with psychic abilities. For example, if the telepath sends a signal and someone in another area that the telepath can neither see nor hear responds verbally, does the telepath receive the response mentally? Does the other party have to know how to "think" their answer in a way that the telepath can understand it?

On the flip side, what if someone is mentally screaming something? Can the telepath hear that?

Can someone unknowingly respond to a mental statement? For instance, if the telepath is part of a party sneaking around and they suspect there are guards lying in wait somewhere. As a precaution the telepath is broadcasting random things (questions, comments, whatever). A jittery guard "hears" something and thinks "what was that?" Does the telepath receive that? Is that a proper "response", or does the other person have to intentionally will the message at the telepath? If so, how does the average person even know how to do that?

Does every mental conversation the telepath has have to be initiated by the telepath or it just doesn't work?

These are some of the reasons why I think the telepath more or less has to be able to pick up random thoughts (probably just static of some kind though) for the power to even function. Unless the telepath has to start every conversation, doing so establishes a link of some kind, and somehow he only picks up the intended responses. It seems a little convoluted to me. I could very well be wrong though. That's why I am asking around on here. Further conjecture is appreciated.

[Segev]

Telepathy specifically does not enable you to read thoughts not directed at you. It also specifically lets you send thoughts to groups, broadcast, or to individuals. However, it does not give you any sense of who's there, unless they're "thinking at you" to let you pick up on it.

So it won't let you feel others' presence any more than your ability to speak tells you who's around to hear it. However, if you want to direct your voice at a particular person you can see, you can cup your hands and try projecting that way. But you have to know they're there to project towards them.

Telepathy doesn't give you location, but you have to know Bob is in range to target him directly.

Yes, you can potentially trick somebody into thinking they heard a telepathic message with their ears. You could even get them responding unintentionally via telepathy, if they're "responding to whoever said that."

But if you want location, or even identification that there exist minds in range, you're going to need Mindsight.