8Bit Theatre -> OOTS ?

[LM TR]

I discovered 8Bit Theatre some days ago and I´m around 200 now, but already I saw quite some similarities, I´m not saying Rich was stealing ideas, but you can see ideas in 8Bit that have been used in one way or another in OOTS later, I give one example: the shoulder angel replaced by a second devil

any comments?

[SteveMB]

I discovered 8Bit Theatre some days ago and I´m around 200 now, but already I saw quite some similarities, I´m not saying Rich was stealing ideas, but you can see ideas in 8Bit that have been used in one way or another in OOTS later, I give one example: the shoulder angel replaced by a second devil
The general joke of "two devils" has shown up in several places. The real punchline is "the angel... doesn't work here anymore" (and, more subtly, the argument between the instant-gratification devil and the long-term-self-interest devil).

[Om]

200? I can't remember if 8BT had collapsed into a plotless morass at that stage or whether that came later.

[Evil DM Mark3]

Schlock mercenary uses a similar idea at one point, only the devil disguises as an angel. Then the Angel turns up and shoots him.

Well they are the angel and devil of Captain Targon of the Targon's toughs mercenary company.

[Morty]

I belive it's a matter of similiar sense of humor rather that "stealing". But I wouldn't dismiss inspiration on Giant's part. Both comics are equally awesome, BTW.

[Icewalker]

200? I can't remember if 8BT had collapsed into a plotless morass at that stage or whether that came later.

No, I think that happened between 300 and 400 somewhere. After they go to the dwarf lands.

[Totally Guy]

No, I think that happened between 300 and 400 somewhere. After they go to the dwarf lands.

They did the class up bit about 600. It was since then that nothing has been good.

[Ithekro]

The two devils thing is probably nearly as old as Mickey Mouse or Looney Toons.

[Om]

They did the class up bit about 600. It was since then that nothing has been good.Nah things were going wrong long before the class change. In particular I remember finally going "What the hell has happened to this comic" after weeks were spent hunting down a rat tail. When Sarda started sending them everywhere the plot simply vanished. So that probably would have been shortly after the Dwarven kingdom.

[DraPrime]

200? I can't remember if 8BT had collapsed into a plotless morass at that stage or whether that came later.

It had a plot? Wow. I've been reading it for a while, but I never knew that it has a plot. This is amazing!

[The Extinguisher]

It's out of it's rut, so that's good.

Anyway, it's a fantasy based comic based on a game. There's gonna be some overlap on the jokes.

[Saithis Bladewing]

Went wrong? What do you mean, 8BT is amazing!

But yeah, seriously, just a coincidence.

[someonenonotyou]

i read 8 bit long time before oots
they were both good until the 8 bit started and ending of water the air orb
but the thing that really got was thief being married joke that was way to close to oots that all i have to say
any questions?

[Silvermike]

http://www.nuklearpower.com/daily.php?date=040518

Not only the jokes, but he ripped off the whole freaking artwork style!!

:smallwink:

[Yoritomo Himeko]

The general joke of "two devils" has shown up in several places. The real punchline is "the angel... doesn't work here anymore" (and, more subtly, the argument between the instant-gratification devil and the long-term-self-interest devil).


I always thought that "two devils" meant the person was so bad they didn't even have a "good conscience", just two bad ones.

[VanBuren]

They did the class up bit about 600. It was since then that nothing has been good.

I disagree. There have been a few good ones since then. For example, the one where Thief tries to boast about the Elven culture again, just to get his butt completely handed to him.

[Setra]

I disagree. There have been a few good ones since then. For example, the one where Thief tries to boast about the Elven culture again, just to get his butt completely handed to him.
Whereas with OotS, all of them are good.

[Dark Wolf]

I like both strips equally. That said it did seem to me recently that it was stuck without progressing with the plot. I consider it to have a plot but more importantly it seems to just do day by day humour. It doesn't seem to be in much of a hurry, but I don't mind. I think Thief has been getting the laughs lately. Stuff like "counterpoint" and he couldn't care less if you payed him, along with "as far as the conversation is concerned he has allergies". It's humorous because they all hate each other. Apart from Fighter, but since he has an INT of 1, he doesn't matter.

[Setra]

I like both strips equally. That said it did seem to me recently that it was stuck without progressing with the plot. I consider it to have a plot but more importantly it seems to just do day by day humour. It doesn't seem to be in much of a hurry, but I don't mind. I think Thief has been getting the laughs lately. Stuff like "counterpoint" and he couldn't care less if you payed him, along with "as far as the conversation is concerned he has allergies". It's humorous because they all hate each other. Apart from Fighter, but since he has an INT of 1, he doesn't matter.No, he has an Int of say, 20 or so.

It's just being repressed. Obviously he has multiple personalities, and the smart one is afraid of Black Mage.

[Jasdoif]

8-bit Theatre has at least as much plot as the original Final Fantasy on which it is based. Which isn't very much. While Rich started making OotS more plot-based then the early strips were, 8BT has remained largely in the realm of jokes that sorta-kinda-maybe advance an extra-light plotline.

I wouldn't say either is superior to the other. They're just different, in both goal and presentation.

[Kurald Galain]

In my opinion 8bit recovered from its low point very well, and the recent plotlines have been funny ("I choose Black Mage to suffer because I don't like him"... "And what's an Australia?" :smallbiggrin: ) Matter of taste, I suppose.

[Setra]

The problem with 8-bit, in my opinion, is 2/5 of the main characters have pretty much used every joke available to them.

Repeatedly.

Since about, the 6th comic.

Black Mage and Fighter have ceased to be funny.

Edit: Thinking back, I take that back. Fighter is still funny.

[Zaldrak]

http://www.nuklearpower.com/daily.php?date=040518

Not only the jokes, but he ripped off the whole freaking artwork style!!

:smallwink:

That's a guest strip made by Rich...

[Om]

It had a plot? Wow. I've been reading it for a while, but I never knew that it has a plot. This is amazing!You thought they were just randomly wandering around collecting orbs? Well, yes, that's what they're doing now. At the start however the plot arcs were fairly well handled and ticked along quite nicely.

I mean really, at this stage Clevinger is throwing in the odd reference to orbs to remind people that there used to be a plot. Otherwise you'd just have the same characters standing around similar looking backgrounds telling the same jokes. The only thing changing in this comic is the backgrounds.

Don't get me wrong, I still read 8BT and I still enjoy the odd joke. I just wish that Clevinger would get his finger out and move the plot forward again.

[WildPyre]

That's a guest strip made by Rich...


*watches the joke go right over that guys head*

Woo watch it buddy... a little closer and you'd have got a free hair cut.

[Kurald Galain]

You thought they were just randomly wandering around collecting orbs?

Intentional or not, that is a beautiful parody of many over-stretched computer RPGs, where the first and the last chapter are epically interesting but the middle bit is just finding the Eight Ancient Thingamajigs.

[Winterwind]

While 8-bit Theatre is still funny, it used to be better when it's pacing wasn't so completely off. I mean, some people complain about the pacing of Goblins, or Erfworld, or even OotS (I disagree), but in all these comics something is actually happening all the time. Here, they have spent more than two real-time months just standing around in these barren lands without furthering the plot in any way whatsoever.

[WalkingTarget]

I still read 8BT, but I've stopped expecting plot movement at this point.

Actually, I think the best comparison I can make is to Aqua Teen Hunger Force (for anybody familiar with that show). The setting and purported concept (FF1 for 8BT, superhero detectives for ATHF) have become irrelevant and it's now just about these very strange characters and how they interact with one another.

I realize that the frame story for ATHF was largely fabricated in order to get the show approved in the first place (they wanted to do this weird/surreal show but needed something else to pitch to the network), which I assume is different than the gradual evolution of 8BT, but I enjoy them both for similar reasons at this point. Plot progression is more of a bonus rather than the primary reason I read the comic.

As opposed to OOTS where I'm in it for the plot/character development and the fact that it's usually laugh-out-loud hilarious is the rich butter cream icing on the cake.

[LM TR]

what I like on 8BIT:
-Black mage
-Fighter is also pretty cool (Sword chucks :smallbiggrin: )
...

what I don´t like:
-very few supporting characters (NPCs)
-I don´t know ANYTHING about Final Fantasy
-the graphics
-not much long-time planning like in OOTS where plots are often reused after like hundred strips
-sometimes things are too chaotic and some things don´t make sense at all

but I´ve only read 250 now so don´t bash me for it

[Setra]

Black Mage stops being funny around the time he takes over Hell.

He is, occasionally, funny afterwards, but very rarely, he's tiring.

[DraPrime]

We need to convince Clevinger to stop having them stand around in the wastelands and actually have them do something. And bring back Twinkin' Out. That was one of the funnier things on Nuklearpower.com.

[WalkingTarget]

We need to convince Clevinger to stop having them stand around in the wastelands and actually have them do something. And bring back Twinkin' Out. That was one of the funnier things on Nuklearpower.com.

I agree, Twinkin' Out with Red Mage was hilarious. From what I understand, though, that was written by somebody besides Brian. It's possible that whoever it was may just be unavailable or simply ran out of material. People can just get bored with things.

[Winterwind]

I agree, Twinkin' Out with Red Mage was hilarious. From what I understand, though, that was written by somebody besides Brian. It's possible that whoever it was may just be unavailable or simply ran out of material. People can just get bored with things.I'm not sure, but I think he still posts in the news occasionally. So it's probably the latter.

[Jensik]

what I don´t like:
-very few supporting characters (NPCs)
-I don´t know ANYTHING about Final Fantasy
-the graphics
-not much long-time planning like in OOTS where plots are often reused after like hundred strips
-sometimes things are too chaotic and some things don´t make sense at all

but I´ve only read 250 now so don´t bash me for it

You're concerned about graphic quality and you read OoTS?

[LM TR]

Black Mage stops being funny around the time he takes over Hell.

He is, occasionally, funny afterwards, but very rarely, he's tiring.

can´t you put that in a goddamn spoiler, I told you I was around 250 :smallfurious:

no just kidding, it´s OK
(Flexo style)

[LM TR]

You're concerned about graphic quality and you read OoTS?

no concerned about hurting my eyes by the gruesome attack of the - PIXELS

[Kurald Galain]

While 8-bit Theatre is still funny ... they have spent more than two real-time months just standing around in these barren lands without furthering the plot in any way whatsoever.
While I wouldn't call it good storytelling, I can't help but think that Brian is doing this on purpose. He is very good with anticlimaxes and non sequiturs (witness the Kraken fight), and having the characters just stand around for a time does fit in with that very well. In a way, it is a meta-joke.



And bring back Twinkin' Out. That was one of the funnier things on Nuklearpower.com.
I believe it was written by Brian, and the EPS thread (which was also very funny) was written by his gf.

[Chronos]

Nah, Twinking Out was written by his buddy Sosa, not him. I don't think that it was ever officially stated who wrote the Evil Princess Sara stuff, though.

As for the meta-humor of them standing around doing nothing, just like in a real video game, I wouldn't put it past him. He pulled a similar sort of humor on a very large scale in his novel Nuklear Age. Or at least, he claimed to: I didn't think it worked too well, and he might have just been claiming the joke retroactively.

[elliott20]

I used to love 8bit, but now I just find the humor kind of repetitive. Maybe it's just my own personal tastes but I find OOTS humor far more accessable and far more diverse.

[Setra]

can´t you put that in a goddamn spoiler, I told you I was around 250 :smallfurious:

no just kidding, it´s OK
(Flexo style)
I figured by the time you read the comment he'd have done it.

Also, I wasn't sure at what point in the comic that was, only that it was a long while ago.

Edit: Apparently around 375.

[....]

And bring back Twinkin' Out. That was one of the funnier things on Nuklearpower.com.


Wasn't that just one long F'Breeze joke?

[Setra]

Wasn't that just one long F'Breeze joke?
Don't forget Lincoln.

[Morty]

-I don´t know ANYTHING about Final Fantasy


Can't see a problem here. Before reading 8-Bit I didn't know a single thing about Final Fantasy and I only vaguely know anything about it now. It doesn't change the fact that I love the comic.

[Pun Pun]

OOTS is actually thought out and keeps a coheret plot, *-bit theatre revolves on non sequiders that last way to long and random acts of violence.

Anything that actually resembles a plot is stolen from FF

[Dark Wolf]

I forget, was "Red Mage shuts the hell up" where "Red Mage shuts the hell up" a column?

[LiteYear]

I believe that line came from a guest comic.

Edit: Here it is. (http://www.nuklearpower.com/daily.php?date=030826)

[spbvji]

I don't know how many 8bit I've read, not too many, but it really did get boring quickly.
And no offense to RIck, but OotS is also losing it's pizzaz. I hate to say it, but lately there's too much plot and character developement. Not that there's anything coherently bad about that, but it's taking too long. I read OotS for the funny, and because it HAS a plot. I don't expect the plot to be everything. I mean, when did Elan become not dumb??? That's just wrong! It's as scary as if like Fighter suddenly decided swords are dumb! It makes no sense!

[The Extinguisher]

Anything that actually resembles a plot is stolen from FF

It's almost as if the comic was based off of Final Fantasy...

[Kurald Galain]

It's almost as if the comic was based off of Final Fantasy...

No no no no, what actually happened / will hapen is that, after finishing the comic, Clevinger builds a time machine and sells his ideas to Square.

[LM TR]

YES
no I found something that can´t be just some random coincidence:
check out Drizz´l´s secret weapon in strip 284, last panel: a pair of glowing eyes in the dark
have seen that before :smalleek: :mitd:

[Om]

YES
no I found something that can´t be just some random coincidence:
check out Drizz´l´s secret weapon in strip 284, last panel: a pair of glowing eyes in the dark
have seen that before :smalleek: :mitd:A pair of glowing eyes in the dark!?! Quick, call the copyright police!!!!

[Elandegenerate]

you people are crazy

[Om]

you people are crazyNo doubt its the multiple exclamation marks that gave it away.

[The Extinguisher]

I prefer, sanity challenged.

[skyclad]

Man what comics are you reading? 8bit is still the best webcomic ever! :) It's actually funny, unlike the last 200 or so oots which has mostly been melodramatic character development. Well I still enjoy it but 8bit is just so much better. ^^

And I agree that you can see where rich got a lot of things. I mean, even the DUN DUN DUN! Thing was done by RM.

[Thexare Blademoon]

Man what comics are you reading? 8bit is still the best webcomic ever! :) It's actually funny, unlike the last 200 or so oots which has mostly been melodramatic character development. Well I still enjoy it but 8bit is just so much better. ^^

Some of us like some sanity in our comics. 8 Bit has been very unreliable for me lately, not quite at CAD's level, but not one I regularly remember to check for updates. Random highly predictable craziness just isn't that enjoyable...

[skyclad]

I beg to differ :D

[Om]

It's actually funny, unlike the last 200 or so oots which has mostly been melodramatic character development.Is that what you call standing around in the desert doing nothing?

Incidentially I was interested when White Mage went "eevillll" but that was brief and now things are back to normal. Ditto with Smart Fighter. In fact I'd challenge you to provide one example of how the characters have evolved over the last 200 strips.

[skyclad]

Evolve? Why? BM is evil, Fighter is stupid, RM is a nerd and Thief steals. Just be happy with what you have. ;)

[Om]

Evolve? Why? BM is evil, Fighter is stupid, RM is a nerd and Thief steals. Just be happy with what you have. ;)That was funny 600 strips ago but is beginning to wear a bit thin now. I could accept it and laugh along if it wasn't for the fact that nothing is happening. Its the same BM standing in the same wasteland making the same jokes! All that changes is the background.

[Warshrike]

SWORD CHUCKS, YO!!

I seriously think 8-bit is the better of the two, no offense to Rich. I started reading it a fair while after, and it could just be that I love quantity or that the fact we had broadband when I started 8bit made it easier for me to read, but I LOVE it.

And the Characters HAVE changed. Discluding the Agent of SWORD comic, when's the last time Fighter's mentioned Swords??
Black Mage has become MORE insanely violent for no reason becuse of White Mage kissing Fighter.
THeif and Red Mage have turned into semi-support cast for a while.
White Mage is about to vanish for a while...
But he SHOULD bring back Black Belt. I know he's definently NOT going to, but he SHOULD.

Also, Sarda is an ass. I like him. Plot'll probably return when they find the last orb and kill the guardian. At that point, either all four Guardians will escape hell and attack someone, or Sarda will turn out to be Evil. Hmmn... I guess I should Spoilerise this, just in case.

[Kurald Galain]

That was funny 600 strips ago but is beginning to wear a bit thin now. I could accept it and laugh along if it wasn't for the fact that nothing is happening.

I'm not sure which comic you've been reading, but (heavy spoilers)
in the last 600 strips the Light Warriors laid waste to Dwarfland, fought Vilbert, defeated Lich, met Sarda, traveled to Gurgu volcano, experienced party death, defeated Kary, sailed to the arctic with pirates, gotten captured by cultists, defeated Eye, one of them got sent to the beginning of time, gotten an airship, met Bahamut, made their way through the Castle of Ordeals, got class changes, traveled by Chocobo, dived to the bottom of the ocean, gotten captured by cultists once more, defeated Kraken, destroyed a coastal town, set up an extortionists guild, and survived Sarda's wrath. Hardly "nothing".
Besides, it seems they just found their destination.

[LM TR]

and now for the daily "coincidence": check it out!

8BIT: 307, last panel: BM: OH, human sacrifice. Is there anything you can´t do?
OOTS: 192, last panel: Xykon: Sacrificing minions: is there any problem it can´t solve?

[Winterwind]

All that changes is the background.And not even that for quite some time now.

[The Hop Goblin]

Is it me or is this starting to sound like a few 8-Bit'ers have come to the forum to start a flame war?

[spbvji]

The second ot the two.

[Morty]

Is it me or is this starting to sound like a few 8-Bit'ers have come to the forum to start a flame war?

:smallconfused: All I see is people criticizing 8-Bit and people trying to prove them wrong in polite enough manner.

[The Hop Goblin]

:smallconfused: All I see is people criticizing 8-Bit and people trying to prove them wrong in polite enough manner.

I'm reffering to the people going "Omfgbbqsauce Rich stole this and this and this from 8-bit!!!"

[skyclad]

I'm reffering to the people going "Omfgbbqsauce Rich stole this and this and this from 8-bit!!!"

All in good fun... Just trying to see what he got some things from :)

[LM TR]

I'm reffering to the people going "Omfgbbqsauce Rich stole this and this and this from 8-bit!!!"

I clearly stated that I´m not saying that Rich STOLE anything, just that he for sure was INSPIRED by 8BIT, a fact which can not be denied!

[Winterwind]

I have to take back what I said. Finally something started to happen in 8bit-Theatre again, and in fact, today's comic made me laugh. :smallbiggrin:

(Though I still maintain that OotS is better by orders of magnitude)

Regardless of that, I don't think The Giant took that much inspiration from 8bit Theatre - I can't think of any similarities that couldn't be explained by either coincidental parallel development, or due to the similar premise (rag-tag group out for adventure).

[Theodoriph]

Even Hamstard is better than 8-bit.

[delguidance]

I'd quit on 8-bit's directioneless quagmire a while ago, but this thread's gotten me interested again.

I think they're both good gamer comics. But Oots had the skill to step away from comedy for a bit to develop in-depth characters a person could relate to. They are complex enough so that no one can predict what they'll do 100%.

On the other hand, if I don't feel like thinking, 8-Bit has static characters that don't actually change or have a semblance of an inner life, but they smash and curse real good.

[Freshmeat]

Personally, I've found plenty of similar gags that pretty much surpass all forms of 'coincidence' if you ask me, no matter how unbiased I try to look at it. I could show you the list of examples, but I hope you'll understand that I don't feel like re-reading +/- 1300 comics (in total) to make a point on a message board.

Besides, those don't really hold up to the hundreds of comics both Rich and Clevinger have made anyway.
As for which is better - OOTS feels more like quality material to me, whereas 8-bit pretty much seems to rely on quantity nowadays. That's why I always check OOTS first and 8-bit like fifth or so on my 'daily comic routine'. It's also why I post on these boards rather than those of 8-bit.

[Winterwind]

Brian once wrote this quite interesting essay (http://www.nuklearpower.com/comics.php) about comic stories, wherein he criticises how heroes of superhero comics do not change. He reaches more or less the conclusion that a story-driven comic has to have changing characters, whereas gag-driven comics don't have to ("Bugs Bunny simply isn’t going to have a crisis of character where he must seriously agonize over difficult moral decisions and the like", he says), or, if they do, they may be back to square zero in the next "episode" (he gives The Simpsons as example for that; his own comic would be a good example of it, too). The thing that Brian, in my humble opinion, missed there is that, while gag-driven stories maybe don't need changing characters, they surely can have them nevertheless, and can be kept more interesting for a much longer time that way. And that's what keeps 8bit-Theatre from going from good comic to great comic.