Unchained rogue build advice

[Vyanie]

I am trying to build an unchained rogue for a campaign but wanted to know if my thinking was correct.
Currently I am making a Human unchained rogue Knifemaster archtype My party is 1 character that shares teamwork feats(forgot what) a gunslinger(bolt ace) a druid and an inquisitor. We are starting out at level 4 but using the slow xp path This is a Kingmaker style of campaign.

talents will be
lvl2 petrifying strike,
lvl3 finesse weapon dagger,
lvl4 bleeding attack,
no clue what my level 5 rogue edge will be

for feats i was going
lvl1 two weapon fighting
lvl1 Dirty fighting
lvl3 cruelty
(planned)lvl5 flensing strike

In the future i was planning on getting ninja trick pressure points and crippling strike much later for my other talents with two weapon feint and improved two weapon fighting as my other feats. I did take the background trait river rat to increase damage from daggers.
Would this all work as I have it planned? the petrifying strike for -2 dex also crippling strike -2 str and the extra -1 to either str or dex from pressure points. In addition the bleeding attack would trigger cruelty. To top it all off flensing strike whenever i sneak attack, should be quite a bit of debuff.
Is there anything I am missing or should choose differently?

[Forrestfire]

Perhaps the strongest (and most useful) feat chain for unchained rogues is Step Up (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/combat-feats/step-up-combat-final/) → Press to the Wall (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/combat-feats/press-to-the-wall-combat/). This will, in many situations, guarantee your sneak attack (especially at higher levels if you can fly above a ground-based enemy), and is a pretty important thing to have. Unchained Rogues deal incredible full attack damage when TWFing thanks to the AC debuff from debilitating injury, so it's worth picking up when you can, I'd say.

Other things to note: Petrifying Strike is an advanced talent, meaning you cannot take it until class level 10th. Bleeding Attack is actually a bit of a trap option; most enemies won't survive long enough for it to stack up, and +1 damage per sneak attack die, once per round (remember, bleed damage doesn't stack), is a very small effect at the cost of talent. Flensing Strike later on is alright, but debilitating injury already penalizes your foes quite a bit. Your call there if it's worth it (depending on the party, the added debuff might be!).

My recommendations for talents might be Combat Trick (to get an extra combat feat) and/or Ninja Trick (Wall Climber (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/alternate-classes/ninja/ninja-tricks/paizo-ninja-tricks/wall-climber-su/)), which is excellent in dungeons at low and mid levels. Shadow Duplicate (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/core-classes/rogue/rogue-talents/paizo-rogue-advanced-talents/shadow-duplicate-sp) as a 1/day (scaling into more uses) panic button is also pretty useful.

Finally uh.... what feat is "Cruelty"? I'm looking on the srd and only finding a drawback, so maybe I just missed it.

[Vyanie]

Cruelty is a feat from inner sea gods, whenever you deal bleed damage you get a +2 to weapon and damage rolls for 1 round, while yes i can do quite a bit of damage im looking to be more of a debuffing rogue to help out the rest of the party.

Ohh for some reason program i was using was classifying petrify strike as a normal talent not advanced... that sucks means there really are no great options for debuffing for non casters....

personally i cant stand shadow duplicate specifically because it is only once a day, it should have been more as now i see it more of a "ohh look im a wannabe caster look can wiggle my fingers once a day and do this...."

[Florian]

How exactly do you mean "Kingmaker-style" campaign? Hex Crawl, large open spaces? The kingdom building? Both, which I presume.

Anecdote: The Rogue in my Kingmaker group had some starting problems. You do most of the hex crawling on horseback, else exploration/crossing a hex takes too long. Depending on spot checks, starting encounter distances can be quite long and you're basically sneaking around at half speed if trying for a stealthy approach. The Rogue in my group ended up as a Vishkanya Rogue (Deadly Courtesan) 8/Daggermark Poisoner 8 with Twin Fangs Style, Fast Stealth, 2x Terrain Mastery (Urban, Swamp), peppering enemies with poison while the Cavalier charged in, then going for a flanking positions.

[Geddy2112]

I second that debilitating injury is going to carry you pretty well, but if you are going for serious debuffing then flensing strike is pretty nice. Pressure points can lower their defenses a bit as well, but at some point the target is just going to die.

I suggest underhanded rogue talent if your charisma is decent. The +4 to SoH is good considering how easy daggers are to conceal, and if you can open round springload wrist sheath both out and go assassins creed for max damage, targets are going to outright die. You can never go wrong with combat trick or weapon training, as feats are feats. You probably want assassinate at higher rogue levels.

I know your current deity is the sadomasochistic nihilist, but consider Pharasma as her deific obedience is a +2 sacred/profane bonus to combat with daggers. Plus depending on your party alignment/worldview/philosophy and the campaign as a whole, she might be more fitting. For sheer minmaxing, figure out if you can get morale or sacred/profane bonuses elsewhere, and pick the deity that grants the one you can't get.

For your rogue's edge, the stealth bonus is a strong choice at level 10+ but useless for you at level 5. The perception unlock is good at any level, and as Florian said having to make spot checks on open ground will benefit greatly from that skill unlock. The sense motive skill unlock is fantastic because it grants an initiative bonus. Acrobatics is also a good choice for level 10+. If you are going for intimidate the intimidate skill unlock is good, but that fits more on an enforcer or thug rogue build.

[Vyanie]

Thanks for the suggestions, i decided to drop cruelty, found out the DM is also playing with elephant in the room feat taxes :smallsmile: so that ended up helping a bit. ended up with two weapon fighting and improved initiative for first lvl and quick draw for third and flensing for 5th (the whole -6 to attack me has saved me more than once now), we ended up having a lot more in the party than we initially thought so it is easy to get flanking. At the moment movement is very slow as 2 people are playing characters that refuse to ride horses so it ended up being a non issue with movement and sneaking. thanks for the ideas on the rogue edge, went perception atm and will go stealth as my next one. I did decide against pressure points as Geddy advised because yeah ... stuff just dies especially when two of us are rogues and we have an unchained barb and bloodrager with a bard. at 7th level both of us decided to do a teamwork feat as outflank with both of us seems scary.

[CharonsHelper]

If you're using daggers, you should go ahead and pick up the Knife Master archetype to change your SA to d8s.

It'll basically burn up all of your feats, but you could go for the Greater Feint / Two Weapon Feint build to make sure that you can get SA and for extra debuffing. At low levels it won't debuff, but once you get Greater Feint it makes them flat-footed against everyone for the round.

[Palanan]

Originally Posted by Vyanie
Currently I am making a Human unchained rogue Knifemaster arch[e]type….


Originally Posted by CharonsHelper
If you're using daggers, you should go ahead and pick up the Knife Master archetype….

Pretty sure the OP has Knife Master covered.

[Vyanie]

As palanan said I picked knife master archtype and the river rat trait to help increase dagger damage. As I am the type of person that likes to plan my character out does anyone have any suggestions for my 7th level feat? Also at 6th lvl i will be getting 2 rogue talents (human favored class bonus) for one i was planning on the ninja trick to get a style feat and getting twin fang style from that and then False attacker. does this seem like a decent idea?

[Geddy2112]

If you ended up worshiping the lady of graves(or if you suddenly have a change of faith) you can pick up deific obidence at 7th level, a +2 to attacks with daggers is better than weapon focus(which is fine as a rogue talent) and dual wielding the bonus really adds up. You can always use a feat to get an extra rogue talent if you don't have any feats you like. Since you are using merged feats, dodge/mobility could be worth looking into.

I am not a major fan of twin fang style. Reducing armor is cute, but not great. The twin fang lunge is nice, but I question if it is worth the other two feats. Twin fang strike is awful-there is rarely a time you would want to use it over just attacking as usual. I would probably just not bother with style feats as a talent, but you can always use the combat trick talent and just grab an extra feat. I still think underhanded is an incredibly strong talent for your build, doublely so when paired with false attacker, which is outright amazing. Sneak attack for max damage, and then convince them somebody else did it. Next round, do it again. Even if you don't have great charisma to power it, +4 to sleight of hand is pretty solid.

Dampen presence is another good rogue talent if you went stealth, as it negates needing skill focus(stealth) but you might want that anyways for maxing out stealth. Trap spotter is decent if you just want to speed run dungeons. Weapon training(daggers) is a +1 to all attacks and solid considering you are dual wielding.

[CockroachTeaParty]

I'm currently playing a level 12 unchained rogue in a Way of the Wicked campaign.

Two weapon fighting is a decent strat; if I can land a full attack, I can melt things, often doing well upwards of 100 damage at this point.

That said, sometimes there are fights where an opportunity for a full attack just never shows up. In those instances, my TWF feats are essentially dead weight.

Now, the first advanced rogue talent I took was Double Debilitation, and it's well worth it. Slapping two debilitating injury penalties at a time is excellent.

My most recent advanced talent was crippling strike, which indeed looks attractive on paper. However...

I kill things so quickly, particularly when I have a full attack sneak attack, that the STR damage from crippling strike has been utterly pointless. There hasn't been a combat since I've got crippling strike where anything survived long enough for the STR damage to matter.

At lower levels it would perhaps matter more, but since it's an advanced talent, and you'll be throwing 5d6+ sneak attack damage per hit, it has something of a diminishing return.

I might have to re-shuffle my feats to get that Press to the Wall feat, that's choice!

Also, if you're going daggers, try to fit in Quick Draw if you can. The ability to full attack with thrown daggers effectively extends your reach a great deal, excellent when you win initiative and want to get a full attack in on flat-footed opponents that are beyond a 5 ft. step; similarly, Lunge is a good feat for expanding your reach, both when you win initiative and for getting in flanks.

[Vyanie]

Sadly with a neg Cha modifier i don't believe underhanded would help to much, dampen presence seems good though. I see what you mean with only 1 ac it's just ....bleh. I will be getting combat trick At 8 for the upgrade to twf. Dodge/mobility seems a solid pick for lvl 7. What about erie disappearance?