Need help with Lore Bard / Trickster Cleric Multiclass

[Vox Silentii]

So the deal is that my character died last session and i need to bring a new one to the next one.

I was talking to the DM and i got this feeling for lore bard that worships Timora (Lady Luck).

I wanted to play him and even got this charismatic, bard that uses a deck of cards as his "focus" or as a flavor.

The thing is i want him to be Lucky. (His friends call him Lucky) and i even get to start with Stone of Luck (i think its name was)

But im not sure i want to go halfling for the lucky trait, i envisioned him as a half-elf.

Im liking the trickster cleric for its channel divinity power and stealth advantage.

I dont want him to be a "fighter". He helps his friends and is good at it (healer buffer/debuffer) and calls everything he does "luck" he makes others lucky. Advantages are simply "luck".

How would you recommend i build him.
Hint im only lvl 6 and
If i make him use cards in any way then his lifetime goal is to find the Deck of many things so it doesnt fall into the wrong hands (im not going to use it)

[Aett_Thorn]

Well, you're going to be a bit MAD, but being a Half-Elf should help fix that. Also, if you stick to mainly the Cleric buff spells, you should be fine even with a lower Wis score.

If you're joining an established party at level 6, I'd say that you probably want to go Cleric 1/Bard 5 (at first level you may want to take Cleric so that you can wear medium armor). Then at your next level you can take Cleric 2 for the Channel Divinity.

Also, something to keep in mind is that the Trickery Cleric's stealth ability can target anyone but you. So YOU'RE not more stealthy, but you can certainly make another member of the party more stealthy.

[Aaron Underhand]

Cleric 1/Bard 5 works great at 6th

Half-Elf

St 9
Dx 14
Con 14
Int 10
Wis 14
Cha 16

Feat at Bard 4 - Lucky

Getting short rest bardic inspiration as D8 is really worth it - wait a bit for Cleric 2...

[Vox Silentii]

Would halfling be a better pick?

[Vox Silentii]

Would halfling be a better pick?

Replying to myself. I dont think the would be

[Aett_Thorn]

Would halfling be a better pick?

It would give you a few extra feat choices (if you have access to Xanathar's Guide) that would emphasize the luck factor, but Half-Elf is just fine.


Are you committed to Lore Bard, by the way? While it is a good choice, I also think that the Glamour Bard could be a good reflection of this, especially if you can use the Mantle of Majesty to do some sort of "bad luck" commands. Things like, "Trip", or "Drop" could be seen as the enemy tripping over their own two feet and fumbling their sword. Mantle of Inspiration could be seen as granting good luck to your whole squad in the form of hitpoints and AoO-free movement. And Unbreakable Majesty (if you ever get there) is basically forcing the enemy to make a "tough luck" check whenever it tries to attack you.

[Vox Silentii]

Well, you're going to be a bit MAD, but being a Half-Elf should help fix that. Also, if you stick to mainly the Cleric buff spells, you should be fine even with a lower Wis score.

If you're joining an established party at level 6, I'd say that you probably want to go Cleric 1/Bard 5 (at first level you may want to take Cleric so that you can wear medium armor). Then at your next level you can take Cleric 2 for the Channel Divinity.

Also, something to keep in mind is that the Trickery Cleric's stealth ability can target anyone but you. So YOU'RE not more stealthy, but you can certainly make another member of the party more stealthy.
A) i dont mind being a bit MAD im mostly looking to cleric for being a faithfull worshiper. Im only going to take healing and buffing spells the wisom score will be completely secondary

B)i dont mind the medium armor, but do i get the musical instruments when multiclassing into bard?

C) i love that about the clerics ability, i dont give myself advantage but i can distribute my "luck" to others when stealthing. (Our rogue is gonna love me)

[Aett_Thorn]

For B), here is what you get when you multiclass INTO Bard:

Light armor, one skill of your choice, one musical instrument of your choice

[Vox Silentii]

For B), here is what you get when you multiclass INTO Bard:

Light armor, one skill of your choice, one musical instrument of your choice
Yeah but i get three skills and three musical instruments when i start in bard. Right? I dont have the book in front of my right now.

[Crgaston]

Yeah but i get three skills and three musical instruments when i start in bard. Right? I dont have the book in front of my right now.


If you start Cleric and go Bard, you get 2 skills from Half Elf, 2 from background, 2 from the cleric list, and then 1 when you switch to Bard. So 7 total.

If you start Bard, you get 2+2+3 from Bard and none when you switch to Trickery Cleric. So 7 total.

Starting Bard Would give you 3 vs 1 musical instruments, but you could pick the Entertainer (among others) background and get another one.

Also, starting Cleric would give you proficiency in Wis+Cha saves vs. Dex+Cha for Bard. That, to me, makes starting Cleric a no-brainer.

[Vox Silentii]

If you start Cleric and go Bard, you get 2 skills from Half Elf, 2 from background, 2 from the cleric list, and then 1 when you switch to Bard. So 7 total.

If you start Bard, you get 2+2+3 from Bard and none when you switch to Trickery Cleric. So 7 total.

Starting Bard Would give you 3 vs 1 musical instruments, but you could pick the Entertainer (among others) background and get another one.

Also, starting Cleric would give you proficiency in Wis+Cha saves vs. Dex+Cha for Bard. That, to me, makes starting Cleric a no-brainer.

Yeah, when you put it like that then yes, it makes more sense

[Aaron Underhand]

Yeah but i get three skills and three musical instruments when i start in bard. Right? I dont have the book in front of my right now.

Yes, but Cleric gives you two skills and multiclass into cleric gives you no extra skills.

You may be able to learn additional musical instruments in downtime.

Really it comes down to your preference of Dex save proficiency or Wis save proficiency. I would prefer Wis.

I'd also recommend taking Sacred Flame, because Bard at will damage options are so limited.

[Vox Silentii]

Yes, but Cleric gives you two skills and multiclass into cleric gives you no extra skills.

You may be able to learn additional musical instruments in downtime.

Really it comes down to your preference of Dex save proficiency or Wis save proficiency. I would prefer Wis.

I'd also recommend taking Sacred Flame, because Bard at will damage options are so limited.

Yeah im gonna go first level cleric. But i think im gonna take cleric 2 / bard 4, since im really excited to try out the channel divinity on trickster cleric.

I'll think about sacred flame, it might be good to have some dmg spells but im mostly gonna try and stay out of a fight and have my friends do the fighting.

So im gonna have CHA as primary and WIS as close secondary. But im rolling stats so i might get "lucky"

[Biggstick]

Is there a reason you simply don't stay Trickery Cleric? You could grab the Entertainer background and pass yourself off as a Bard with a 14 Charisma. Being a 6th level Trickery Cleric would get you two uses of the Channel Divinity, plus being able to use it to turn invisible. If you're worried about Expertise, you could choose to grab the Prodigy feat from Xanathar's to get yourself an additional proficiency and an Expertise'd skill. Being a 6th level Trickery Cleric is also giving you access to things like Pass w/o Trace, Mirror Image (for more non-concentration illusion play), and you're almost to level 7 (and thus Polymorph/Dimension Door)!

Guidance and/or Enhance Ability and/or Tongues (all on the Cleric spell list) make you quite the capable party face. And having 14 Charisma plus proficiency in the relevant face skill (which you'll have room for being a Half Elf) will be sufficient enough for being successfully talkative.

Depending on your stat rolls, I think Half Elf, Human, and Halfling all really fit what you're looking for here. Half Elf becaus of it's strong stat/skill bonuses, Human for the feat, and Halfling for Lucky/Bountiful Luck.

[Vox Silentii]

Is there a reason you simply don't stay Trickery Cleric? You could grab the Entertainer background and pass yourself off as a Bard with a 14 Charisma. Being a 6th level Trickery Cleric would get you two uses of the Channel Divinity, plus being able to use it to turn invisible. If you're worried about Expertise, you could choose to grab the Prodigy feat from Xanathar's to get yourself an additional proficiency and an Expertise'd skill. Being a 6th level Trickery Cleric is also giving you access to things like Pass w/o Trace, Mirror Image (for more non-concentration illusion play), and you're almost to level 7 (and thus Polymorph/Dimension Door)!

Guidance and/or Enhance Ability and/or Tongues (all on the Cleric spell list) make you quite the capable party face. And having 14 Charisma plus proficiency in the relevant face skill (which you'll have room for being a Half Elf) will be sufficient enough for being successfully talkative.

Depending on your stat rolls, I think Half Elf, Human, and Halfling all really fit what you're looking for here. Half Elf becaus of it's strong stat/skill bonuses, Human for the feat, and Halfling for Lucky/Bountiful Luck.

Good point, i didnt think of that

[Tesla Dragon]

In the same vein of what Biggstick suggested, are you married to the idea of being a Cleric? It would be easy enough to take the Acolyte background to emphasize your character as being a religious follower of your chosen deity, and you can snag choice Cleric spells at Level 6 with Lore Bard's Additional Magical Secrets ability (such as Bless to keep your party 'lucky' in combat). This could help you from being quite as MAD.

This does, of course, leave you without the quite flavourful Channel Divinity, but there are a number of fun illusion spells within the Bard's list which may help make up for that, such as Invisibility, Major Image, Hypnotic Pattern and, at higher levels, things like Mislead. In addition, you won't be slowing down your acquisition of new spell levels by going all Bard.

That's not to say I think that a Trickery/Bard split is bad by any means, I had a heckuva good time in a previous campaign with a devout "Cleric" who had more than 10 bard levels tucked into his belt by the time he strolled off the mortal coil, but if it's only faith you're trying to bring to the forefront through the Cleric levels, a background may be more of an appropriate fit.

[Vox Silentii]

In the same vein of what Biggstick suggested, are you married to the idea of being a Cleric? It would be easy enough to take the Acolyte background to emphasize your character as being a religious follower of your chosen deity, and you can snag choice Cleric spells at Level 6 with Lore Bard's Additional Magical Secrets ability (such as Bless to keep your party 'lucky' in combat). This could help you from being quite as MAD.

This does, of course, leave you without the quite flavourful Channel Divinity, but there are a number of fun illusion spells within the Bard's list which may help make up for that, such as Invisibility, Major Image, Hypnotic Pattern and, at higher levels, things like Mislead. In addition, you won't be slowing down your acquisition of new spell levels by going all Bard.

That's not to say I think that a Trickery/Bard split is bad by any means, I had a heckuva good time in a previous campaign with a devout "Cleric" who had more than 10 bard levels tucked into his belt by the time he strolled off the mortal coil, but if it's only faith you're trying to bring to the forefront through the Cleric levels, a background may be more of an appropriate fit.

True that the whole Turn Undead does not "tickle my gimme bone" but have been drooling a bit over "invoke duplicity". If i understand it correctly then i can use it as a point of origin when casting my spells. I does though rely on my senses but that does not sound like hindrance to me.

Acolyte does sound the way to go if im going full bard but "luck" is supposed to be my "thing". I give people bad luck and good luck. So i need to get that power from somewhere so the whole cleric idea seems to add that to it.

My decision is either
A) go lvl 6 bard and just bard it all the way.
B) go 2/4 and get a little set back on spells ,but have a fun little clone
C) go 1/5 and not get a clone but another fun thing to do in short rests

[Vox Silentii]

Btw i just rolled my stats and got 16, 14, 12, 11, 9, 7

[Specter]

Cleric 1/Bard 5 works great at 6th

Half-Elf

St 9
Dx 14
Con 14
Int 10
Wis 14
Cha 16

Feat at Bard 4 - Lucky

Getting short rest bardic inspiration as D8 is really worth it - wait a bit for Cleric 2...

This. Also notice it's perfectly fine to stop at Cleric 1 for armor, shields, Bless and Blessing of the Trickster.

[Aaron Underhand]

Btw i just rolled my stats and got 16, 14, 12, 11, 9, 7

Half elf

Str 9 Need for medium armour / carrying capacity
Dex 12
Con 11+1 => 12
Int 7+1 => 8 not too dumb!
Wis 14 is just fine
Cha 16+2 =>18 is a wonderful place to be at 6th level

Still would go for Cleric 1/Bard 5 - get those third level spells, and the short rest inspiration

You can have guidance, bless and healing word from Cleric, and make all your bard spell picks from second and third level, including enhance ability and invisibility (which can both be upcast on two people)

[Biggstick]

Btw i just rolled my stats and got 16, 14, 12, 11, 9, 7

With that stat layout, I'd probably go with a straight up Bard. It's possible to run with Cleric levels, but the stat layout isn't friendly towards it imo.

Cleric 1//Bard 5
7
14
11+1
9
12+1
16+2

This set-up will give you 18 Charisma at level 1, and allow for you to grab any feat you'd like. You'll probably go with Lucky, as you've described it as being an important part of the character. Just keep in mind +2 Cha will give you another Bardic Inspiration (amongst the myriad of other things it will improve), Inspiring Leader could provide a temporary hp pool to deal with your lower then average HP for yourself and 5 other party members, and Alert can help you go earlier in combat, thus allowing more opportunities to influence the luck of your allies.

Bard 6
7
12
14
9+1
11+1
16+2

I'm a bigger fan of this set-up, as it leaves us with more even numbers, and only one true dump stat in Strength. One thing you will have a problem with going with this build is your AC vulnerability. You'll only have proficiency with light armor and no shields. It's a crappy situation for you if you're ever surrounded by enemies, but you know this and will make spell choices accordingly. Picking up the Lucky feat at level 4 will help you ensure that you at least have a better chance at making the saving throws. One of the biggest benefits in my mind in going single-classed Bard is that you get to start out with your Magical Secrets. You'll be able to have that power right away instead of having to wait for another level to get it. You're also only one level away from 4th level spells, which is a solid boost in power for Bards.

All in all, I prefer the "even-ness" of the single-classed Bard. However, you'll get more of a defensive/safer feel by going with the single level of Cleric before going Bard levels. As others have recommended, I wouldn't consider the second level of Trickery Cleric until you have at least 5 levels of Bard, as Bardic Inspiration coming back on a short rest is critical to really take advantage of Cutting Words/Bardic Inspiration.

[Biggstick]

Str 9 Need for medium armour / carrying capacity
Dex 12
Con 11+1 => 12
Int 7+1 => 8 not too dumb!
Wis 14 is just fine
Cha 16+2 =>18 is a wonderful place to be at 6th level

If we use the 7 in Strength, the carry capacity of the character is 105 lbs. If the DM is using encumberance rules, that means the PC can carry 52.5 lbs before being slowed down.

Breast Plate = 20 lbs
Shield = 6 lbs (Emblem of Tymora on it, with 0 weight attached)
Daggers (2) = 2 lbs (total)
Shortbow = 2 lbs
Arrows (20) = 1 lb
Quiver = 1 lb
Backpack = 5 lbs
Silk Rope = 5 lbs
Waterskin = 5 lbs
Lute = 2 lbs

Total weight carried = 49 lbs

For everything else you want to carry, spend 15-20 gold on a Donkey/Mule, Saddle, and Saddlebags and have the beast of burden carry your extra equipment. That's how I'd deal with having a 7 Strength personally.

[Citan]

Hi OP!

I understand how you can drool on Invoke Duplicity, and this is indeed a very good feature, but you should keep in mind two significant limits:
- you have to "concentrate on it as if you were concentrating on a spell" (so only non-concentration spells if you want to maintain it).
- spells only (no Bardic Inspiration handed out through duplicity).

If those two won't bother you, by all means go Cleric 2 / Bard 4, 'cause it means you already have many ideas on how to put it to good use.

Otherwise, I'd go Half-Elf Cleric 1 / Bard 5:
STR 9
DEX 11+1
CON 14 (or 16)
INT 7
WIS 12+1
CHA 14 (or 16) +2

Choice of whether 14 or 16 in CHA depending on whether you prefer putting focus on buff or debuff.
With 9 STR, you should not be too worried about against restraining effects. Skills will help against push/shove.

DEX 12 is a bit low sadly, but with medium armor and shield, you'll still end with a pretty decent AC.
You just have high enough WIS to multiclass, you can grab Resilient or Observant later depending on how you want to start.

I'd honestly go with 16 CON because that means extra HP and concentration, but it's only a matter of taste.
+1 CHA means +1 on DC of all your debuff and one more bardic inspiration, so it's also great.
Pick either one with a serene mind. :)

Have fun!


If we use the 7 in Strength, the carry capacity of the character is 105 lbs. If the DM is using encumberance rules, that means the PC can carry 52.5 lbs before being slowed down.

Breast Plate = 20 lbs
Shield = 6 lbs (Emblem of Tymora on it, with 0 weight attached)
Daggers (2) = 2 lbs (total)
Shortbow = 2 lbs
Arrows (20) = 1 lb
Quiver = 1 lb
Backpack = 5 lbs
Silk Rope = 5 lbs
Waterskin = 5 lbs
Lute = 2 lbs

Total weight carried = 49 lbs

For everything else you want to carry, spend 15-20 gold on a Donkey/Mule, Saddle, and Saddlebags and have the beast of burden carry your extra equipment. That's how I'd deal with having a 7 Strength personally.
Thanks for this demonstration of how difficult it is to manage with a 7 Strength. XD
Nevermind about food, that one you indeed make carry... What about some gold? What about magic potions? What about more arrows or longer rope? What about components pouch (Bard spells =/= Cleric spells)?
What about carrying a heavier instrument? What about finding a magic item which cannot just replace one of your weapons?

Obviously you can expect a more bulky friend accept to carry some of your things, but only up to a point. And luggage animals are not always praticable either or require costly animal swap (steep mountain, underground caverns, volcano)... Plus while it's reasonable to put food and mundane things on them, you probably won't trust its enough to not carry magic items and other precious things on yourself.

[Biggstick]

Thanks for this demonstration of how difficult it is to manage with a 7 Strength. XD
Nevermind about food, that one you indeed make carry... What about some gold? What about magic potions? What about more arrows or longer rope? What about components pouch (Bard spells =/= Cleric spells)?
What about carrying a heavier instrument? What about finding a magic item which cannot just replace one of your weapons?

Obviously you can expect a more bulky friend accept to carry some of your things, but only up to a point. And luggage animals are not always praticable either or require costly animal swap (steep mountain, underground caverns, volcano)... Plus while it's reasonable to put food and mundane things on them, you probably won't trust its enough to not carry magic items and other precious things on yourself.

Well, a Bard can cast spells using a musical instrument, so no need for a component pouch there. And if we're worried about it not being one-handed, we can always choose any one-handed instrument (which btw, you don't even have to be proficient with to use as a spellcasting focus).

Gold and potions are probably the most understandable things that aren't on my list. And yes, carry weight is most definitely a problem for a 7 Strength character. However, it's something that I've simply outlined can be done with a character; I'm personally playing an Eldritch Knight Archer who only has 6 Strength! He uses Mage Armor instead of Studded Leather, and the heaviest thing he carries on his person are his 2 quivers full of arrows and his shield.

Basically, it can be done. But yeah, it's definitely an interesting little mini-game to figure out this sort of stuff with a low Strength character imo lol. That's what friends are for right? To carry stuff for you? :)

[Citan]

True. Xd After all why else would any Fighter or Barbarian be so strong ? Xd

I actually thought about using rituals such as Tenser Floating Disk Unseen Servant or Phantom Steed... But while I would not mind when traveling alone I would expect any party to get annoyed at hzving to stop 1mn every hour... ^^

Nice example with your EK although you "cheated" a bit : ) Mage Armor indeed alleviates greatly the total weight.
Bard would need a dip or feat or secret to get the same efficiency. : )

[Vox Silentii]

So after all this discussion i think it would be better to just go Bard 6 instead of a dip in cleric.

I think it would be better, he would just be "lucky" but not religiously.
I might still get to start with the Luckstone (flavored as a coin) even if im not a cleric.

It's true that the whole trickster thing being concentration so i wont be able to use another one (shield of faith etc.) so i might just save that for when take a class that doesn't rely on other concentration spells as much.

I can still get other spells with secrets so it wont be much of a problem to get the things i need.