Twigwit's Guide to XGtE - Archetypes and Feats

[Twigwit]

Link to the guide (https://docs.google.com/document/d/19zo7Mtavi-MwRxSFSEXTcrpluEv7o3ZCLJFVJcViCWo/edit?usp=sharing)

I've spent the past few months working on a comprehensive breakdown and analysis of the value of each feature in the first chapter of Xanathar's Guide. I'll probably end up revising whole sections of it as I playtest more and more of the content, but I think it's reached the point where it's informative enough for general release. The ratings are all in terms of "objective power," but I've written extensively about which abilities I believe to be fun/boring despite their apparent power. Hope you glorious bastards find this useful.

[MxKit]

Nice guide!

I think the only really big things I disagree with is that Samurai is a lot better than you give it credit for, Drunken Master is a bit better as well, and the Prodigy feat is way better than you put it as.

Samurai might not higher than purple, though I'd put it at least between purple and green—I'm inclined to rate it green, but can admit to bias—but certainly not orange.


Fighting Spirit isn't great but isn't quite as bad as you put it as (advantage is never bad to get, at least, and once you hit higher levels you're getting advantage on a ton of attacks for that turn).
Elegant Courtier is purple if a DM is just arbitrarily ignoring Persuasion rolls and just doing whatever they want, yes, but I know for a fact that not all DMs do that; that combined with getting proficiency in Wisdom saves makes this pretty solidly green.
Rapid Strike gets you an extra Extra Attack, and yes, it's kind of late but when you look at it as falling between lv11 and lv20, it makes more sense; I'd still leave this at green, but it's almost like getting your Extra Attack (3) five levels early.
And Strength Before Death is way better than you give it credit for; I'd definitely give it a green rating. I definitely don't see it as "lose less"—basically what it's allowing you to do is be a whirling dervish as a panic button, and if you do it right it's amazing. Brought down to 0 HP, use action surge, use fighting spirit, use rapid strike, use either two-weapon fighting or polearm master to attack with your bonus action. Yes, you'll still be falling unconscious, but I find it hard to call it simply "lose less" when falling to 0 means you can immediately make 8 attacks (10 attacks at lv20).

So that makes Bonus Proficiency purple, Fighting Spirit purple, Elegant Courtier green, Tireless Spirit orange (I agree with this; it'd be better if it changed your Fighting Spirit to a short rest recharge), Rapid Strike green, and Strength Before Death green. Using Maths (lol), that does place it more around midway purple-green range, at worst purple depending on your the DM adjudicates Persuasion rolls. I'm mostly inclined towards green because, notably, Fighting Spirit gets more and more useful the more levels in Samurai you take, improving a tiny bit with Tireless Spirit, improving more with Rapid Strike, and culminating fairly strongly with Strength Before Death, as well as improving with every Extra Attack you get; when you first get it it might trend more orange (though I still think it's better than that), but at later levels it adds with other things to have evolved to green, imo.

IMO, Samurai also improves more from a Rogue multiclass, or even dip, than a Barbarian multiclass. A bit of extra Sneak Attack damage makes Fighting Spirit shine more, and if you take Samurai all the way to 18, picking up Cunning Action lets you take advantage of Strength Before Death in a brand new way, making 7 attacks rather than 8 but being able to use your bonus action to disengage, use your movement to get to a safer distance, and make it more likely that your teammates can stabilize/heal you before you start auto-failing death saves from staying in melee range and getting hit.

And when it comes to Drunken Master...


I couldn't fairly put their Bonus Proficiencies below purple, since depending on your DM and campaign, having Performance, a boost to Persuasion that you can use fairly often, a potential boost to Medicine, and potable water every rest can be very good.
I agree with the rating of Drunken Technique, but I'd like to add that the increase in speed isn't the only thing you're getting that mimics the Mobile feat. The free disengage is actually superior to what Mobile gives you, since it works against everyone, not just the enemies you attacked. You're getting basically 2/3 of the Mobile feat at worst, and Monks both love that and appreciate having an extra ASI freed up.
Tipsy Sway is way better than most people give it credit for. I'd put it solidly at green, since both of its effects are situational but very useful when those situations come up. Leap to Your Feat is giving you a piece of the Athletic feat, which is nice.
I like cancelling disadvantage when it does crop up, but I can definitely agree with your reasoning and that that makes this purple. It's definitely better used for saving throws, or even ability checks.
I am actually surprised that Intoxicated Frenzy gets only a green rating from you; I think it's definitely a blue-worthy feature; by the time you get it it's letting you make seven attacks that all do 1d10 damage, and 3d10 of that can be against one target. You did note that Drunken Technique gives you the free disengage and extra speed that you can abuse, but you can use that specifically to maneuver over to the enemy you really want to take out/lock down, doing some damage to a bunch of enemies along the way before hitting your main target a few times and attempting a stun (or even a grapple). It's more quietly impressive than some other Monk 17 features, but imo it definitely plays well in any battle where there are a lot of enemies around.

Even if Samurai is only at purple, I think Drunken Master is pretty solidly green.

As for Prodigy, well, all I can say about that is that if you think a feat that gives you a skill proficiency, a tool proficiency, a language proficiency, and expertise in any skill you have is so bad as to be a trap option because "skills are weak," I think you are playing in and running games that are way, way different than anything I've ever experienced.

There are a few other areas where I disagree, or only agree with heavy caveats, but those are the main ones. Still, this is very well put together and I always appreciate when people outline their thoughts on races, classes, and feats and explain their reasoning, even when we're not on the same page, so I want to thank you for putting it together!

[Naanomi]

It doesn’t make the class any better, really, but you didn’t mention the ‘fringe’ benefits of the storm herald... if you are playing an aquatic game, the water breathing may matter for example

I think you are underselling Conquest Paladin, locking down several people with no save to escape is something not very replicatable by anything else in the system right now

Inquisitive Rogue: the advantage on perception applies to Passive Perception in a way that most tables don’t let the Help Action (ie: don’t allow ‘oh my familiar is always helping me every round’ type situations while traveling); which is a very nice +5 in many situations

Lance of Lethargy: in isolation, not as good as repelling blast... combined with repelling blast: awesome!

Radiant Soul: an interesting trick is to be an aasimar, add radiant damage to your Eldritch Blast (or other spells), then get the free damage no matter what

[Ganymede]

You give a lot of great advice about how non-combat features are useless because it's all DM fiat anyways.

[Twigwit]

You give a lot of great advice about how non-combat features are useless because it's all DM fiat anyways.

Not really what I intended it to sound like, but I get where you're coming from. I've added a more detailed response at the end of the document that includes my reasoning as to what effects are weak to me and why many skills get lumped into that category. Hopefully that clarifies why I would give many of the skill proficiency abilities mid to low ratings. TL;DR, it isn't because I hate non-combat features, it's because I dislike abilities with uncertain outcomes.

[tomato]

I disagree with the assessment of Shadow Arrow Arcane Shot for Arcane Archer Fighter. The advantage is applied on subsequent hits immediately, giving you one round of advantage. Even levels 1-4 where you don't have extra attack, you have Action Surge and the effect of hitting with a shadow arrow and then making a second attack against them with the action surge action is enough to take out most enemies at that level range. In addition, if the enemy survives, they're blinded and can't attack in most situations. The wisdom save is usually a decent save to target on enemies that this would matter for, and psychic damage is uncommonly resisted. In my experience, most combats last 2-4 rounds, and so being blinded for a decent percentage of that can be crushing.

[LVOD]

This was awesome. Do you have any other guides?

[Easy_Lee]

Good guide. I disagree in a few areas.

I would rate Inquisitive higher since the combination of Inquisitive, feat: Observant, and Expertise: Perception is no joke. Having a strong passive perception is a life-saver in several of the published campaigns.

Prodigy is also quite good on a Shield Master for athletics expertise. Expertise in Stealth can be excellent if your DM plays by the written rules when it comes to stealth. If you're being stealthy and your stealth check beats enemy passive perception, they are surprised. That's what the rules say and surprise is significant. That said, I am regularly appalled by some GMs' unwillingness to honor this rule.

But good guide overall.

[Twigwit]

This was awesome. Do you have any other guides?

I do, I have an old guide to the Mystic I made last year when the full 20 levels version debuted. It doesn't have color ratings and my assessments on a few of the abilities have changed, but if you're interested in it anyways you can read it here (https://docs.google.com/document/d/16LqU9sr1eSuwuPdSQlxfVovBKUd_C5UK2AtSeR-bVK8/edit?usp=sharing). The big changes is I think Avatar is weaker than I first thought and the Psychic Assault discipline is too much of an auto-pick, but there are probably dozens of changes I'll make to it before giving it it's own thread.

[ShikomeKidoMi]

I would rate Inquisitive higher since the combination of Inquisitive, feat: Observant, and Expertise: Perception is no joke. Having a strong passive perception is a life-saver in several of the published campaigns. Prodigy is also quite good on a Shield Master for athletics expertise. Expertise in Stealth can be excellent if your DM plays by the written rules when it comes to stealth. If you're being stealthy and your stealth check beats enemy passive perception, they are surprised. That's what the rules say and surprise is significant. That said, I am regularly appalled by some GMs' unwillingness to honor this rule. But good guide overall.

Besides shovers, Prodigy (Athletics) is also good for grapplers. Conversely, if your character keeps getting grappled by monsters Prodigy (Athletics or Acrobatics) might not be a poor investment.

And as you say, Prodigy (Perception) and Prodigy (Stealth) are pretty good.

[MrStabby]

You give a lot of great advice about how non-combat features are useless because it's all DM fiat anyways.

I think that common usage is blue text for sarcasm, to avoid confusion.





All in all it is a pretty good guide - i like it. A few things i would disagree with:

Barbarian: Consult the spirits I would rate better than purple. It can add a lot of depth to the character, it lets the barbarian engage more deeply with the non combat pillars of the game instead of sitting on the sidelines and it lets the party prepare for combat.

Zealot: divine fury - purple is maybe right, but I think it is possibly worth upgrading to green depending on campaign. Dropping radiant damage vs undead can be a big swing.

Swords Bard: I think you slightly miss out on one aspect of the benefits of extra attack. It really lets you preserve your spell slots. High level spells can be general combat - where a powerful spell is better than an attack action. The other spells can be massively situational/utility. That you don't need to expend spell slots to do damage means that you can use them for other things.

Redemption Paladin: Spells as Orange? This is my only beef here. I think your points are absolutely right - about concentration and combat, but I also think that the spells are so powerful that orange seems a bit low. After all, the level of battlefield control should stop you taking too many hits and as someone wanting to be in the frontline you would expect to have great con saves anyway (coupled with always being inside . It may mean that the warcaster feat becomes mandatory, but that's not the end of the world. A number of the great spells don't even need a save/attack roll.

Inquisitive: Eye for detail is superb by my measure. I have found most DMs are enthusiastic to find ways to drop details, hints and clues in combat, not to mention that it can help protect from some hit and run attacks. I don't think this is in any way bad - just a little DM dependant.

I think there is one flaw that runs through a lot of these values - there seems to be a slightly perverse idea that the DM is out to get you and to stop you having fun. That any ability that the DM can ignore will be ignored or downplayed into insignificance rather than treated as an opportunity to develop the plot and characters. As a result of this the values seem a bit excessively combat focused.