Ranged support archer build

[Zene]

I recently played an AL game with a guy who had a very interesting (and seemingly very effective) build. I'd never seen anything like it, but I liked it enough that I really want to play one now. Thought I'd share it here to see what folks thought --he said that was cool with him-- and whether there are any aspects that could be improved.

So this PC was a "support fighter" type character. Apparently he ended up there kind of by accident, but it ended up working well.

For most of levels 1-7, he went straight Ancients Paladin, and just played it like a normal Paladin. At some point he took a Hexblade 1 dip so he could be Cha-SAD.

After Pal 7 / Lock 1, he started picking up Barbarian levels, up to Ancestral Guardian 3. Since he wasn't attacking with strength, reckless attack was useless. But rage resistance made him tankier and made his occasional grapples better; and the AG 3 ability protected his allies, building on what he saw as his party role as a paladin.

And that was when the idea came to him. With his paladin aura, he could hang back and cover the squishies, while using a ranged attack to trigger Ancestral Protectors. And Hexblade let him switch his weapon to hand crossbow, and still attack with Charisma. At that point (Character level 11), he found this "ranged protector" role worked really well. It was weird to not be able to smite, but since his goal was support anyway, he figured no big loss.

So then, as he progressed in Tier 3, he started picking up Fighter levels - for the Archery fighting style, then Action Surge, then Battlemaster Maneuvers. Then he went back to start picking up ASIs. By the time of the session I ran with him, his build was Ancients Pal 8 / Hexblade 1 / AG Barbarian 4 / Battlemaster 3.

His battle tactics typically went like this: Round one, stand near the ranged party members so they get the aura, bonus action rage and fire off a couple shots. The first hit activating Ancestral Protectors (enemy has disadvantage on anyone but him, and if the enemy does hit anyone else, they have resistance to the damage). Sometimes he'd also throw a Menacing Attack on that first shot as well, to keep the enemy at range. Other times, he'd hit a second target with Goading Attack, giving a kind of Ancestral Protectors-lite effect --so tanking two targets at range. In subsequent rounds, he'd just fire away with the crossbow, keeping Ancestral Protectors up and doing damage, but also keeping an eye out for team members that needed heals via Lay on Hands.

I was playing a wizard, and staying in his paladin aura meant I never even came close to missing a Concentration check. Spell damage resistance was awesome, too.

I was amazed at how much he helped out the group. Seemed like a really fun build to play, too. His Cha score and proficiency in Persuasion also made him a party face, playing up the "strategic leader" aspect in roleplay.

He mentioned that with his remaining levels, he was thinking about either going Mastermind 3 (to enable bonus-action Helps, with expertise in Persuasion and a 2d6 damage boost as nice bonuses), or going Bard 3 (so he could pass out inspiration, with expertise and more spell utility as bonuses). I'm thinking Thief 3 or Arcane Trickster 3 might be better than Mastermind for support, as it'd allow him to administer healing potions with his bonus action. Or pick up Fighter 4, so he can grab Inspiring Leader or Combat Superiority.

What do y'all think? Too crazy of a build? Any way it could be improved? I'm tempted to do a similar build, but the fact that it plays completely differently from levels 1-10 vs. 11+ is a little bit daunting.

[Crgaston]

That’s great! I’d say Lore Bard for the Cutting Words as a reaction if someone gets hit.

[Arkhios]

Well, that's interesting! I had sort of assumed that rage would end early if you didn't make a melee attack, but now that I checked it out, it does indeed say nothing if the attack had to be melee or ranged!

Although, I'm not so sure if losing 2/3 of the standard rage benefits for the rest of the concept is really worth it, but it does make for an interesting alternative for sure.

I think I would continue with more battlemaster, because as a fighter you'd still get 2 more ASI, and at battle master 7 you'd get more maneuvers per short rest and more selection to choose from as needed. I'm aware, though, that Extra Attack from Fighter and Paladin don't stack, but that's alright, in my honest opinion.

[Zene]

That’s great! I’d say Lore Bard for the Cutting Words as a reaction if someone gets hit.

Ah, great idea! Opens up the use of reactions. I don’t think the build had any as-is.

[Specter]

I would go straight Paladin, or Paladin X/Fighter 1 for Archery.

3 levels of Barbarian seem pointless here; you can't rage, or you'll lose heavy armor and spells. Unarmored Defense is also silly. And Reckless Attack is incompatible with bows. Not to mention the delay in spells. So basically he took three levels for Danger Sense and the path feature.

Also, you can smite at range; just pick the one or two spells that don't require a melee attack (Branding Smite IIRC).

[djreynolds]

You know hexblade does give you eldritch blast, another level and you can grab agonizing blast and/or repelling blast

And really its as good as a bow and at 11th character level you have 3 1d10 beams.

Now when you say support staying full caster or half caster helps increase your available spell slots for some kick-ass spells or just more healing

This is IMO, much better than a 3 attacks with a hand crossbow, that does eat up a bonus action.

Just a plain old warlock can fill the archer role with eldritch blast

[Vogie]

I think the core of Battlemaster Fighter 3 / Hexblade 1 / Paladin 6 is a good basis.

You could increase damage by going Hexblade 3 to upgrade to a longbow, and guarantee a +1 weapon. You can then increase from there to add Eldritch Smites, and better casting
Bump Paladin up to 10 for Anti-Frightening Aura.
Bump Fighter up to 7 or 10 for more Maneuvers.
Actually, Fighter 7 / Hex 3 / Paladin 10 could work as a final target

[Mortis_Elrod]

not sure if you're asking advice for yourself or the amazing player you found but if for him i'd suggest Lore bard 3 or grabbing his last 4 levels into hexblade to smite people prone for his melee combatants. he could grab Improved Pact weapon, Eldritch smite, and repelling blast. All of which would help him control more.

[Zene]

I would go straight Paladin, or Paladin X/Fighter 1 for Archery.

3 levels of Barbarian seem pointless here; you can't rage, or you'll lose heavy armor and spells. Unarmored Defense is also silly. And Reckless Attack is incompatible with bows. Not to mention the delay in spells. So basically he took three levels for Danger Sense and the path feature.

Also, you can smite at range; just pick the one or two spells that don't require a melee attack (Branding Smite IIRC).


You know hexblade does give you eldritch blast, another level and you can grab agonizing blast and/or repelling blast

And really its as good as a bow and at 11th character level you have 3 1d10 beams.

Now when you say support staying full caster or half caster helps increase your available spell slots for some kick-ass spells or just more healing

This is IMO, much better than a 3 attacks with a hand crossbow, that does eat up a bonus action.

Just a plain old warlock can fill the archer role with eldritch blast


I think the core of Battlemaster Fighter 3 / Hexblade 1 / Paladin 6 is a good basis.

You could increase damage by going Hexblade 3 to upgrade to a longbow, and guarantee a +1 weapon. You can then increase from there to add Eldritch Smites, and better casting
Bump Paladin up to 10 for Anti-Frightening Aura.
Bump Fighter up to 7 or 10 for more Maneuvers.
Actually, Fighter 7 / Hex 3 / Paladin 10 could work as a final target


not sure if you're asking advice for yourself or the amazing player you found but if for him i'd suggest Lore bard 3 or grabbing his last 4 levels into hexblade to smite people prone for his melee combatants. he could grab Improved Pact weapon, Eldritch smite, and repelling blast. All of which would help him control more.

Yeah it’s weird if you don’t see it in action...but seriously, that L3 Barbarian subclass feature, operating at range, is like 90% of why he was so effective. Yeah 3 levels is a huge investment, and yeah there’s a lot of Barbarian features he was underusing. But that disadvantage on the entire party, and resistance for the entire party, every single turn, was freakin’ amazing. (Just one enemy, so yeah he had to pick his targets carefully, but still). Honestly if I were to re-create this I’d rather drop any other part of the build than the AG Barbarian 3 (which btw requires a weapon attack to work, so not compatible w/ Eldritch Blast).

[Mortis_Elrod]

Yeah it’s weird if you don’t see it in action...but seriously, that L3 Barbarian subclass feature, operating at range, is like 90% of why he was so effective. Yeah 3 levels is a huge investment, and yeah there’s a lot of Barbarian features he was underusing. But that disadvantage on the entire party, and resistance for the entire party, every single turn, was freakin’ amazing. (Just one enemy, so yeah he had to pick his targets carefully, but still). Honestly if I were to re-create this I’d rather drop any other part of the build than the AG Barbarian 3 (which btw requires a weapon attack to work, so not compatible w/ Eldritch Blast).

true. but sometimes you just need to push a guy, maybe with environmental hazards. It be a situational usage, and thats the best way to use EB for him, since he doesn't care about dealing dmg himself.

[Zene]

true. but sometimes you just need to push a guy, maybe with environmental hazards. It be a situational usage, and thats the best way to use EB for him, since he doesn't care about dealing dmg himself.

Oh definitely. I'm a huge fan of Repelling Blast --one of the most fun abilities in the game IMO, and almost brokenly useful in tactical combat for a feature available at L2, plus it just scales up from there. Considering it's just a 1-level additional investment for this build, which also gives another invocation, and another short-rest spell slot... definitely a strong contender if any of the current levels were dropped. Or as the next level as it enters Tier 4.

[Vogie]

Then why not build it around that? BM Fighter 3 / AG Barb 3 / Conquest Paladin X

It's still SAD, except that single ability is Strength, rather than Charisma. You can use your Channel Divinity to make sure your Ranged attacks hit, or reckless attack to make sure your melee attacks hit.