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View Full Version : Sample Buffer/Debuffer/CC/Healer Builds for PF and 3.5?



Reprimand
2018-02-16, 03:32 PM
So I've been messing around with some other rpg video games and I don't know why but even in single player games were its my primary job to do damage as the hero I always tend to take a back seat and buff/heal allies and throw as many negatives on enemies as possible

I know everyone immediate response is going to be the god wizard build that focuses on exactly this but I also kind of want to shoe horn in being a divine caster and having healing available even if its not my main shtick. I kind of wanted to be a white mage focusing on the prevention of wounds before they happen rather than just playing medic all game.

I'm also trying to make these happen within relying on an entire other system of rules martial manuvers / psionics / binding / chakras.

I would like examples of this in both PF and 3.5 if possible.

I would like to stick to core + any books that don't introduce entire new systems of rules like a pointed out above if possible so stuff like all the complete warrior divine champion mage arcane etc are all fine but stuff like psionics related books are not. Same applies to PF so no spheres of magic or the martial books (I forget the name) or the psionics books.

Dr_Dinosaur
2018-02-17, 09:02 PM
The Oracle class in PF is pretty good at this if you build for it. You can take the Dual-cursed and Pei Zen Practitioner archetypes with the Life mystery to get the Misfortune revelation for CC and Life Link+Lay on Hands combo for healing. After that, you’re a 3/4 BAB spontaneous divine full caster with passive teamwide heals and whatever spells you pick from the Cleric list.

Here’s a breakdown in case that sounded like a mess or tl;dr
1. Dual-cursed Oracle makes you pick two curses, one of which never progresses past 1st level, but in exchange you get an extra Revelation at 5th level and access to the excellent Misfortune, which forces/allows rerolls on *any* target a few times a day (reroll allies’ failed saves and/or enemy crits!)
2. Pei Zen Practitioner gives you the Paladin’s Lay on Hands ability, including healing yourself as a Swift action. Life Link from the Life Mystery lets you take a bit of damage each turn while your allies are hurt to automatically patch them up. Combine the two and you’re a self-recharging HP battery that doesn’t waste actions healing most turns.
3. Oracles get every Cure or Inflict spell automatically, and some Curses add more spells to your free list, helping with the limited list problem.

RFLS
2018-02-18, 04:02 AM
Pathfinder's Antipaladin (https://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/alternate-classes/antipaladin/) is an excellent fear-based debuffer, with backup debuffs from his Touch of Corruption ability and its associate Cruelties. It circumvents the most common problem with fear based builds by simply annulling fear immunity within 10 feet at level 3.

SangoProduction
2018-02-18, 04:31 AM
I may sound like a broken record, but Spheres of Power does allow you to get a Buffer (enhancement sphere) / Debuffer (death/destruction spheres) / CC (Death.destruction spheres) / healer (life sphere), and you get it all in the amount that you are willing to invest in to it.

Maybe you find your healing isn't up to snuff, so next level you invest more of your talents to Life. And so on and so forth.

Dread_Head
2018-02-18, 04:33 AM
Pathfinder Shaman sounds perfect for this. The hexes provide a solid debuffing base, I've had insane success with just misfortune and chant on a shaman I'm playing at the moment. You can add evil eye or use witches hex to pick up slumber of you want further options. The spell list provides plenty of options for buffing (barkskin, protection from X, bulls strength etc), crowd control (entangle, fog cloud, stinking cloud, etc) and further debuffing if you need it (sleep, shadow trap, hold person etc). You can take life spirit as either your main spirit or through wandering spirit to pickup healing abilities.

Eldariel
2018-02-18, 04:46 AM
Pathfinder Wizards heal just fine, and do everything else on your list more than fine. Level 1 they have Infernal Healing (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic/all-spells/i/infernal-healing/), which is just fine in Wand-form and the best way to heal up after combat. In-combat healing is just not worth the actions. On higher levels Summon Monster does the healing duty, particularly with Acadamae Graduate (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/local-feats/acadamae-graduate-local/) and Superior Summoning (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/general-feats/superior-summoning).

Lantern Archon (Summon Monster III) can spam Aid which is a health buffer while Lyrakien Azata gets Cure Light Wounds. Summon Monster IV can get 1d3+1 Lantern Archons or Lyrakien Azatas (only Summon Good Monster option), while Summon Monster V gets Bralani Eladrin and Vulpinal Agathion (Expanded Summon Monster), which blow the market wide open. Vulpinal has 6 uses of 3d6 Lay on Hands for a total of 63 points of healing on average, while Bralani gets 2 Cure Serious Wounds at CL 6 for 6d8+12 total (average 39). They also cast offensively with Lightning Bolts.

On SM6, when Clerics get Heal, you can get 1d3+1 (average 3) Vulpinals for a total of 189 points of healing on average (way better than Heal on sheer numbers at this point, though Heal removes status effects which you need different summons for) spread as you will over multiple turns. On Summon Monster VII you can get 1d4+2 Vulpinals for more than enough healing for a lifetime or a Monadic Deva for 7 uses of CL 8 Cure Serious Wounds (and many other boons) - though Jyoti (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/bestiary/monster-listings/outsiders/jyoti) is probably the way to go to ensure access to Breath of Life. SM8 gets you Leonal Agathion (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/bestiary/monster-listings/outsiders/agathion/agathion-leonal), which finally grants you Heal (at a high caster level) alongside Cure Critical Wounds and many other awesome spells. On SMIX you of course just get 1d3+1 Leonals if you're into Healing; that's not bad compared to Mass Heal even. This document (https://docs.google.com/document/d/16dZ5SBQMS1Yi6531tXOkKE_rmXEwn4VFacOEQKiHA5E/edit?pli=1#) goes into detail on the options.


But basically, outsource the healing. Summons do all you need.

Eldariel
2018-02-18, 07:02 AM
As for 3.5, simple Cleric is more than sufficient. Just prepare appropriate spells. The trick is, most of them come from auxiliary books (Frostburn, Spell Compendium, Forges of War, Serpent Kingdoms, Book of Exalted Deeds, etc.). You have all the healing options out of the gate and the same summon options as the Wizard (though you're limited by not having spells of opposite alignment available, unlike Wizard), but in 3.5 Summons are much weaker (on average, one spell level higher for the same summon at least far as spellcaster summons go). You also have domains to expand your spell list and pick up some of the Wizard goodies.

Some of the more notable spells are spelled out in this thread (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?514702-good-cleric-spells&p=21691649&postcount=5#post21691649); notably Ice Slick, Protective Interposition, Ray of Hope, Heartache [Book of Vile Darkness], Alicorn Lance, Dark Way, Silence, Shatter, Rigor Mortis [Heroes of Horror], Tyche's Touch [Lost Empires of Faerun], Laogzed's Breath, etc. make Cleric's contributions in terms of battlefield control and buffing quite significant from the very first levels. Some summons and Conjure Ice Beast have both, damage and control modes. Peruse this thread (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?255219-The-Summoner-s-Desk-Reference-D-amp-D-3-5) for more detail.

Great domains include:
- Trickery for Invisibility, Confusion, Polymorph Any Object, etc.
- Luck for the reroll
- Spell for Anyspell and Greater Anyspell to access all those sweet arcane BFCs
- Celerity/Time for Haste & al.
- Blackwater [Stormwrack] for Black Tentacles on level 3

etc.

Spell in particular is probably worth having spontaneous domain casting [PHBII] in for as it allows accessing any arcane spell of lower level pretty much on demand. Spells like Glitterdust, Web, Solid Fog, Polymorph (best ally buff in the game), etc. never grow old.