Having trouble picking wizard spells

[Davrix]

As I've mentioned in a few posts. My table will be doing a short little silly lv 20 kinda shenanigans game in the coming months. Currently I'm trying to pick a spell list but I am having a hard time settling on spells and as a pure wizard i get a lot.

Plus the DM has told me to pick my spells as normal then take their combined spell level and buy more spells known from that pool to fill out my book for additional spells known but he wants me to pick spells first not just say I choose this many lv 4 spells, this many lv 6 and so forth as I level.

(do please keep in mind everyone got a similar high power stat block to start and just as good gear as i have)

The final stats for the character are
Lore Wizard from - UA
16 16 14 20 16 16
AC - 20 HP - 120
Spell sv DC - 21
Spell attack - 15

Gear
Robe of the Archmage
Staff of Power
Rod of absorption

Spells I'm currently looking at

Cantrips
Green Flame Blade
Toll the dead
Frostbite
1st
Find Familiar
Identify
Shield
Burning hands
2nd
Mirror image
Misty step
Invisibility
3rd
Fireball
Fear
Fly
Haste
4th
Polymorph
dimension Door
5th
Cone of Cold
Hold Monster
Teleportation Circle
6th
Disintegrate
Flesh to stone
Globe of invulnerability
One of the Investiture's
7th
Simulacrum (Dm has said only allowed to have one up at once)
Teleport
Prismatic Spray
8th
Clone
Dominate Monster
Power Word Stun
9th
Wish
Time Stop
True Polymorph


I really don't have much in mind But things I'm looking for is control over the battlefield, laying down a bit of hurt as needed and helping allies as i can

[samcifer]

Mage Armor is really important, so don't overlook it. Detect Magic is rather useful as well. Fire Bolt is the best ranged cantrip you can get and has out-of-combat utility. Flaming Sphere gives you a useful bonus action. Greater Invisibility lets you keep attacking while invisible. Chain Lightning is a pretty good attack spell as well.

[Sigreid]

Mage Armor is really important, so don't overlook it. Detect Magic is rather useful as well. Fire Bolt is the best ranged cantrip you can get and has out-of-combat utility. Flaming Sphere gives you a useful bonus action. Greater Invisibility lets you keep attacking while invisible. Chain Lightning is a pretty good attack spell as well.

Mage armor isn't anything when you have a robe of the Archmage.

[holywhippet]

That doesn't look like picking spells as normal. You should have 8 level one spells as you start with 6 and get 2 more at level 2. From there you get 2 spells per level which much be chosen from any level you can actually cast.

[Ganymede]

That doesn't look like picking spells as normal. You should have 8 level one spells as you start with 6 and get 2 more at level 2. From there you get 2 spells per level which much be chosen from any level you can actually cast.

Don't forget that, every level, you can swap out one spell you know for another. For instance, when you attain third level, you can swap out one of your first level spells known, say Identify, for a second level spell, say Blur.

[holywhippet]

Don't forget that, every level, you can swap out one spell you know for another. For instance, when you attain third level, you can swap out one of your first level spells known, say Identify, for a second level spell, say Blur.

I don't think wizards can do that - sorcerers and bards can since they only know a number of spells limited by level but a wizard just knows what is in their spellbook.

[smcmike]

Don't forget that, every level, you can swap out one spell you know for another. For instance, when you attain third level, you can swap out one of your first level spells known, say Identify, for a second level spell, say Blur.

I think you are thinking of a sorcerer. This is not how wizards work.


A level 20 wizard should have basically all of the spells. Normal leveling gets you 5 cantrips and 44 spells in your book, plus whatever you pick up in the course of adventuring.

[Ganymede]

Oh shoot. Yeah, you two are right.

[Davrix]

Um guys its just spells I'm looking at, nothing to do with the order I learn them in. This is just a option list of what caught my eye as i was glancing through the books.

I was just looking for any tips on some of the standard must have always useful wizard spells. So thank you Samcifer for at least offering some suggestions. I hadn't realized greater invis would let you cast from hiding. So thats probably going on the list.

[Foxydono]

I would definitely get Counterspell and probably greater invisibility.

Edit: and perhaps plane shift depending on the campaign.

[Galactkaktus]

Longstrider is pretty good if you are level 20. Since if you use spell mastery with it your party can have 10 extra ft of movement all the time. which does change combat by quite abit most monsters of that power level has some kind of multiattack so by being faster than them you can attack them retreat take an aoo(which is just one attack) and then they have to dash to get to you and therby forgoing the attack action which in many cases are more than 1 attack.

[Davrix]

Longstrider is pretty good if you are level 20. Since if you use spell mastery with it your party can have 10 extra ft of movement all the time. which does change combat by quite abit most monsters of that power level has some kind of multiattack so by being faster than them you can attack them retreat take an aoo(which is just one attack) and then they have to dash to get to you and therby forgoing the attack action which in many cases are more than 1 attack.


Thats actually a really good idea to think about. And here I was just thinking of picking Shield and Misty Step.

And yea i'm probably taking plane shift sense I'll have a Demi Plane with my clone stored inside of it heh.

[Galactkaktus]

Thats actually a really good idea to think about. And here I was just thinking of picking Shield and Misty Step.

You can kind of have both since you can change spells for spell mastery by spending 8 hours in study. So you could make a simulacrum with longstrider as one of it's spell mastery choices and have shield for your spell mastery if you really want to. Another hillarious thing that you can do is spam grease all over the place with a simulacrum that does the same it's not really practical buth it's great versus the Tarrasque.

[Blood of Gaea]

Here are a few suggestions to round out your list, I'll list them in descending order of level, but in no particular order of importance.

9th level:

Foresight: A really potent buff to one of your party members for most or all of your encounters for the day. That said, if you have a Sorcerer in the party with Foresight, it would probably be more efficient to use your 9th level slot elsewhere. Not concentration.
Prismatic Wall: Pretty much the best battlefield control spell in the game, you either get a 90-foot long wall or a 30-foot sphere which is extremely hard to escape from. Not concentration.
Meteor Swarm: It's worth considering if someone else in your party doesn't have it, it's quite a lot of damage when used at the right the right circumstance. Not concentration.
Pyschic Scream: In the circumstances where Meteor isn't a viable way to deal damage, this is good, it also applies stun and is an Int save. Not concentration.




8th level:

Mind Blank: The immunities are likely going to be useful in a campaign of this level. It also is a good way to spend leftover 8th level slots at the end of the day. Not concentration.
Demiplane: This has three main uses, a place to take a long rest when nowhere else is safe, makeshift prisons that is very hard to escape from, and hard to access area's to store important items you cannot keep on your person. Not concentration.
Maze: Instantly take an enemy off the field, one of the best ways to clear out minions before fighting the boss of the encounter. Concentration.
Illusory Dragon: This is absolutely amazing, an indestructible illusionary dragon that can deal damage even if someone knows it's an illusion, it can also frighten enemies. Concentration.
Mighty Fortress: Consider this, if you have need to build a base in your current plane, this is one of the better ways to do, combines well with Wall of Stone. Not concentration.



7th level:

Plane Shift: I'd easily take this over a normal teleport, you already have other ways to perform normal teleporting, and this doesn't have a chance of failure. It's also a save-or-die (cast it through your familiar).
Forcecage: A great form of crowd control, bonus points for being immune to Dispel Magic. Not concentration.
Mordenkainen’s Magnificent Mansion: When you need a safe place to sleep and eat but aren't desperate enough to use Demiplane. Not concentration.
Crown of Stars: Good blasting damage, and a good use of your bonus actions. Try to cast this before combat starts. Not concentration.


6th level:

Mass Suggestion: There's really a lot this can do for you, if you can look at this spell and see the uses for it, you'll probably want to pick it up. Great for use during off time, when cast from higher spell slots it can last for a very long time. Not concentration.
Contingency: At this level of play I'd consider this near essential, the easiest example is to combine it with a teleport (Dimension Door) triggered to your hp dropping below 50%. Not concentration.
True Seeing: Ask your party members to see if anyone is picking this up, at least one of you should probably have it. Not concentration.
Create Homunculus: Good utility, though I'd generally avoid using it for combat. Not concentration.
Mental Prison: A strong mix of single target crowd control and psychic damage. Concentration
Tenser's Transformation: Consider it, you basically become a decent melee combatant. Concentration.




5th level:

Rary’s Telepathic Bond: Use it as a ritual when your party needs to split up, communication is a big deal. It's also good to have around if you need to talk to someone without a language you can understand. Not concentration.
Bigby's Hand: It's nice to have just because of the versatility. Concentration.
Wall of Force: The best of the wall spells, it's pretty damn hard for enemies to get through it. Concentration.
Wall of Stone: If you think you'll be needing to make permanent walls for any reason, you'll want this, otherwise Wall of Force is better. Concentration.
Animate Objects: A pretty strong and versatile summoning spell, having more creatures taking actions can help more than you might think at first. Concentration.
Seeming: This spell can be a big boom when you're trying to sneak the entire party somewhere, if you won't be doing that, you don't need this. Not concentration.
Planar Binding: If you plan on using any kind of summon, you should definitely get this, you can cast from a higher slot to bind that creature for long periods of time. Not concentration.
Synaptic Static: Decent damaging AoE with a good damage type and the debuff is quite strong. Not concentration.


4th level:

Otiluke’s Resilient Sphere: They get a chance to escape with a Dex save, and it's destroyed by a disintegrate, but considering it's only a 4th level spell, I'd recommend it. Concentration.
Fire Shield: Usable for either Fire or Cold resistance, as well as applying a bit of a damage if you get hit in melee. Not concentration.
Arcane Eyes: This is one of the best ways to scout places out in advance, but use your familiar instead of plausible. Concentration.
Watery Sphere: This is a great control spell lock down creatures and then move them where you want them. Concentration.
Evard's Black Tentacles: It's like Watery Sphere, but can't move, deals some damage, and is harder to escape after it's initial save. Concentration.
Banishment: It's like a worse version of Maze, but it's a 4th level spell. Not concentration.
Charm Monster: Amazing spell, lasts for an hour. Not Concentration.
Summon Greater Demon: This is a good value summon, combos well with Planar Binding. Concentration.
Vitrolic Sphere: Better damage than a fireball, but a higher spell slot, it's nice to have an AoE attack that doesn't deal fire damage. Not concentration.



3rd level:

Counterspell: Against the right enemy, this is the strongest spell in the game, and it's a reaction spell. Always pick this spell. Not concentration.
Dispel Magic: You should make sure at least one person in the party has this. Not Concentration.
Sleet Storm: It's like Fog Cloud and Grease in one spell, and can also make enemy casters lose concentration. Concentration.
Hypnotic Pattern: This spell can take away a lot of actions when casting into a group, seriously consider whether to use this or fireball in any given battle. Concentration.
Major Image: A very multipurpose spell, and if you use it at 6th level or higher it lasts until dispelled without concentration. Concentration.
Animate Dead: Stronger then Tiny Servant, but require a dead body. Not concentration.
Tiny Servant: A pretty cheap way to get some summons, less morally ambiguous than Animate Dead and doesn't require a corpse. Not concentration.



2nd level:

Pyrotechnics: You can create smoke or a blinding effect from non-magical fire, either bring torches to throw, light a fire with Prestidigitation, or combo it with Flaming Sphere. Not concentration.
Flaming Sphere: If you get Pyrotechnics, you should get this too. Concentration.
Levitate: Use it to get out of range of melee mobs, or a pit you've fallen into, can also be used as a debuff to a creature without ranged attacks, not too strong, but good for its value as a 2nd level spell. Concentration.
Blindness/Deafness: It's a save-or-suck spell, but it's a Con save. Concentration.
Web: Crowd control on the cheap. Concentration.
Dragon's Breath: Use this on your Familiar. Concentration.




1st level:

Tasha’s Hideous Laughter: This is the best crowd control at 1st level. Concentration.
Silent Image: Very versatile, easily worthy of a 1st level slot. Concentration.
Thunderwave: I'd highly recommend this over burning hands. Not concentration.
Catapult: This had good utility by flinging offensive potions/flasks 90 (perhaps a special item needed to defeat a boss?) feet with it and tacking on damage, otherwise skip it. Not concentration.
Absorb Elements: Basically elemental version of Shield, use a reaction. Not concentration.



Cantrips:

Prestidigitation: This is a multipurpose utility cantrip, also great from an RP perspective. Not concentration.
Mage Hand: Use this to touch things your party is nervous about touching, also great from an RP perspective. Not concentration.
Chill Touch: Relatively circumstantial, but negating health gain can be useful against the right creatures. Not concentration.
Ray of Frost: As long as your party has ranged attacks, you can use this to trivialize some fights against a single foe, or even just keep one out of melee range for an extra round. Not concentration.
Mold Earth: It's no teleport or fly, but it an additional mobility option. Not concentration.
Control Flames: Combine it with a torch or lantern to increase the area it lights, can possibly combo with pyrotechnics as well. Not concentration.


And a few extra tips:

Use your familiar to apply touch spells, like Plane Shift.
Don't skimp on ritual spells, learn as many useful ones as you can manage, Wizards have the best ritual list afterall.
I would recommend using Spell Mastery on Silent Image, Absorb Elements, or Shield for 1st level, and Misty Step or Mirror Image for 2nd level.

[Davrix]

You can kind of have both since you can change spells for spell mastery by spending 8 hours in study. So you could make a simulacrum with longstrider as one of it's spell mastery choices and have shield for your spell mastery if you really want to. Another hillarious thing that you can do is spam grease all over the place with a simulacrum that does the same it's not really practical buth it's great versus the Tarrasque.


Wait wait wait, hold the phone, that thing gets all my class abilities as well?

*jawdrop*

Also thank you blood, I'll take a closer look at that list later tonight when I get home."

[Gardakan]

Do not bother too much with planning ahead of time. You'll find spellbooks, the game might not even run up to this level.

One spell you should definitely give a look at is Life Transference. You'll probably end up won't picking it, but a Wizard which can heal from times to times in desperate needs is a wizard I'm willing to tip off my hat at all time. Makes for a great companion in 5e. For the rest, you have access to mobility ahead of everything (Teleport comes to my mind). An arcanist can be strong, Wizard gets to have a lot of spells to cast from.

3 key things.

1 - Don't pick too much Concentration spells. I'm not saying to not learn them if you have them under the hand. But pick wisely on what you plan to concentrate. As easily said, it's mandatory to have a spell list that takes this restriction in high priority.

2 - Pick good reaction spells. Reaction is a key action that wizards gets to fullfill with Counterspell, Shield. These two spells are a must.

3 - Have fun. The game is about this.

[Blood of Gaea]

Wait wait wait, hold the phone, that thing gets all my class abilities as well?

*jawdrop*

Also thank you blood, I'll take a closer look at that list later tonight when I get home."
Simulacrum gets everything you do, but cannot regain spell slots, and is annoying to heal. Try to make them mainly use your cantrips, spell mastery spells, and reusable class features, saving their actual spell slots for important moments. Wish can be used to bypass the cost and time of making a Simulacrum and is a pretty solid use of your 9th level slot if you haven't used it that day.


2 - Pick good reaction spells. Reaction is a key action that wizards gets to fullfill with Counterspell, Shield. These two spells are a must.
I would argue that Absorb Elements (from Elemental Evil) is just as good as Shield, and maybe even a bit better.

[Davrix]

Do not bother too much with planning ahead of time. You'll find spellbooks, the game might not even run up to this level.

One spell you should definitely give a look at is Life Transference. You'll probably end up won't picking it, but a Wizard which can heal from times to times in desperate needs is a wizard I'm willing to tip off my hat at all time. Makes for a great companion in 5e. For the rest, you have access to mobility ahead of everything (Teleport comes to my mind). An arcanist can be strong, Wizard gets to have a lot of spells to cast from.

3 key things.

1 - Don't pick too much Concentration spells. I'm not saying to not learn them if you have them under the hand. But pick wisely on what you plan to concentrate. As easily said, it's mandatory to have a spell list that takes this restriction in high priority.

2 - Pick good reaction spells. Reaction is a key action that wizards gets to fullfill with Counterspell, Shield. These two spells are a must.

3 - Have fun. The game is about this.

we are starting at Lv 20 and the reason I need to pick spells is because the Dm is letting me pick more spells for my book based on the sum total of the spell level of my spells. So having 4 Lv 1 spells = +4, 4 Lv 2 spells = +8 and add up from there. Now I am just going down the list each level and picking the max for the spell slots I have so i will have 4 spells of each spell level Except for Lv 9. sense you get that at 17 so it will be a mixture of lv 9 8 and 7 spells to keep the point value high for my extra spell selections but he wants to approve of my base spell book before letting me purchase more.

[Davrix]

Simulacrum gets everything you do, but cannot regain spell slots, and is annoying to heal. Try to make them mainly use your cantrips, spell mastery spells, and reusable class features, saving their actual spell slots for important moments. Wish can be used to bypass the cost and time of making a Simulacrum and is a pretty solid use of your 9th level slot if you haven't used it that day.


I would argue that Absorb Elements (from Elemental Evil) is just as good as Shield, and maybe even a bit better.

Yea having wish is basically opening up the Swiss army knife of wizard level silliness :)

Now I just need to figure out a way to create all the gems and things for spell components for when I need them.

*crap I double posted without thinking, sorry wont do that again*

[Blood of Gaea]

Yea having wish is basically opening up the Swiss army knife of wizard level silliness :)

Now I just need to figure out a way to create all the gems and things for spell components for when I need them.

*crap I double posted without thinking, sorry won't do that again*
Purchase a bag of hold (or your preferred equivalent) and keep important components in there, store a stockpile of extras (I'd recommend at least five copies of your important components, but get more if you have the gold to spare) inside a Demiplane for safe keeping. And try to use Wish when feasible to save on components.

Remeber, you can use Planeshift to go to your Demiplane, saving an 8th level spell slot.

Also, while Wish is an amazing multitool of a spell, don't forget that the other 9th level slots are usually much better at what they're made for (unless you chance losing access to Wish forever). I'd generally recommend having Wish and one other 9th level spell prepared on any given day.

[Davrix]

Purchase a bag of hold (or your preferred equivalent) and keep important components in there, store a stockpile of extras (I'd recommend at least five copies of your important components, but get more if you have the gold to spare) inside a Demiplane for safe keeping. And try to use Wish when feasible to save on components.

Remeber, you can use Planeshift to go to your Demiplane, saving an 8th level spell slot.

Also, while Wish is an amazing multitool of a spell, don't forget that the other 9th level slots are usually much better at what they're made for (unless you chance losing access to Wish forever). I'd generally recommend having Wish and one other 9th level spell prepared on any given day.

yes but you could always simply have the ice clone use wish so that it doesn't really matter if it looses the ability. Though I thought you needed a teleportation circle for plane shift to focus to it or do i simply need to say I wish to travel to my demi plane?

[Blood of Gaea]

yes but you could always simply have the ice clone use wish so that it doesn't really matter if it looses the ability. Though I thought you needed a teleportation circle for plane shift to focus to it or do i simply need to say I wish to travel to my demi plane?
Be sure to talk to your DM about Simulacrums using Wish in advance, that's not something you want to suddenly backfire on you if they make a ruling.

You don't need a teleportation circle to use Plane Shift, but you don't get to choose your exact landing location without one. So teleporting to a town in another plane would probably land you at the gates or town square, whereas a circle could let you land in your living room.

[Davrix]

Be sure to talk to your DM about Simulacrums using Wish in advance, that's not something you want to suddenly backfire on you if they make a ruling.

You don't need a teleportation circle to use Plane Shift, but you don't get to choose your exact landing location without one. So teleporting to a town in another plane would probably land you at the gates or town square, whereas a circle could let you land in your living room.

He's letting me use it as long as I don't go nutz with it also i am only allowed one Simulacrum as part of this deal which is fine as i feel the loop hole with that spell just breaks the game to a point of it no longer being fun. And he is letting me get away with some pretty silly things which I am happy about.

Though I just had a thought looking at the level 5 spells, the planar binding spell. Could I just True polymorph a slightly intelligent enough creature that doesn't have a CR into a high lv CR demon or celestial and then bind it for a year using a Lv 9 slot for the cast ? or have i missed something

[Blood of Gaea]

Though I just had a thought looking at the level 5 spells, the planar binding spell. Could I just True polymorph a slightly intelligent enough creature that doesn't have a CR into a high lv CR demon or celestial and then bind it for a year using a Lv 9 slot for the cast ? or have i missed something
Use Object to Creature True Polymorph, making any CR 9 or lower creature, no larger than the size of the object. Then use Planar Binding on that creature (just use a tree or boulder). I would recommend a Mind Flayer, Succubi/Incubi, Grey Slaad, Githyanki Knight, Hydra or any Young Dragon that isn't Gold or Red.

As with Simulacrum + Wish, I'd suggest talking to your DM about this.

EDIT: To clarify, don't forget to make sure the creature is an elemental, fey or fiend if you want to Planar Bind them.