Death Approaching

[Noxxea]

Hey there,

We´re playing DnD 3.5 and i am a fairly new DM and have to handle an experienced player who is about to die because he goes in an unwinable 1v1 (knowing he would die, but saying his Deity forces him to help any helpless person immediatly).

He is lvl 1.

2 Beginners see him die and the other player would not see any scenario fighting in this session because of it.

He fails his saves to satbilize 4 times and dies telling me in between that his god could save him (Illmater) with devine intervention.

I did´nt save him because I decided he is not important enough with lvl 1 for a god to step in.


I am still wondering now, how other DM´s are improvising when clear death is approaching, but its not needed nor wanted.

At what point do you let a player die and when do you save him with improvised help.... And: Are there any Other solutions appart from the lvl 9 spell to Ressurect him for less than 45k gold.

Appreciate any tips and examples,

Regards,


Noxxea

[Malimar]

Most real-world religions that have rules also have a "these rules are trumped by staying alive and healthy" clause. If your religion forbids you from eating X, but you're trapped on a desert island where X is the only food available, you eat X (and then maybe undergo a cleansing ritual later on, when the direness has passed). No sane god would require a person to charge into an unwinnable fight and die. This character has a quixotic death wish and it would probably be a waste of money and effort to bring them back from the dead.


At what point do you let a player die and when do you save him with improvised help.... And: Are there any Other solutions appart from the lvl 9 spell to Ressurect him for less than 45k gold.
You're probably thinking of true resurrection, with a cost of 25,000 + lvl 9 spell cost. Resurrection is 10,000gp + lvl 7 spell cost. Raise Dead is 5000gp + lvl 5 spell cost. Reincarnate is 1,000gp + lvl 4 spell cost, but brings you back as a different race.

There are also tricks involving some Spell Compendium spells whose names I don't happen to recall offhand. One brings you back temporarily and then you die again, the other resurrects you for cheap but only if you've been dead less than 1 round.

[Remuko]

Most real-world religions that have rules also have a "these rules are trumped by staying alive and healthy" clause. If your religion forbids you from eating X, but you're trapped on a desert island where X is the only food available, you eat X (and then maybe undergo a cleansing ritual later on, when the direness has passed). No sane god would require a person to charge into an unwinnable fight and die. This character has a quixotic death wish and it would probably be a waste of money and effort to bring them back from the dead.


You're probably thinking of true resurrection, with a cost of 25,000 + lvl 9 spell cost. Resurrection is 10,000gp + lvl 7 spell cost. Raise Dead is 5000gp + lvl 5 spell cost. Reincarnate is 1,000gp + lvl 4 spell cost, but brings you back as a different race.

There are also tricks involving some Spell Compendium spells whose names I don't happen to recall offhand. One brings you back temporarily and then you die again, the other resurrects you for cheap but only if you've been dead less than 1 round.

Revenance and Revivify

[Talverin]

Honestly, you're under no impetus to protect him from his own consequences.

He chose to fight and die knowing full well there was no chance of survival. He is level 1. He is a nobody. He went into this situation expecting a deus ex machina to come along and save the day. Here, you have a choice to make:

Are you going to make it a chosen one game where everyone gets free resurrection from their god any time they **** up, where player agency matters less than plot movement, and be expected to save them every time they get in over their head?

Or are you going to make a game where the party had a guy with them who ****ed up and got killed early on because he fed himself into a wood chipper?

Also, anything that gives negative levels (Res, Raise Dead) means he would die as soon as he was revived. When negative levels = HD, you die.

Unfortunately, this early on, your actions will set a precedent, and expectations. Both paths have their pros and cons, and it is up to you to choose how it will go from here.

[Jiece18]

Hey there,

We´re playing DnD 3.5 and i am a fairly new DM and have to handle an experienced player who is about to die because he goes in an unwinable 1v1 (knowing he would die, but saying his Deity forces him to help any helpless person immediatly).

He is lvl 1.

2 Beginners see him die and the other player would not see any scenario fighting in this session because of it.

He fails his saves to satbilize 4 times and dies telling me in between that his god could save him (Illmater) with devine intervention.

I did´nt save him because I decided he is not important enough with lvl 1 for a god to step in.


I am still wondering now, how other DM´s are improvising when clear death is approaching, but its not needed nor wanted.

At what point do you let a player die and when do you save him with improvised help.... And: Are there any Other solutions appart from the lvl 9 spell to Ressurect him for less than 45k gold.

Appreciate any tips and examples,

Regards,


Noxxea

Deities tend not interfere with mortals. Even if the player was a cleric or paladin. It would set a bad president that a player can avoid death simply by claiming his god would save him.

Also, few deities would force one of there believers into committing suicide just to up hold one of their beliefs.

[Florian]

I´d be straightforward and ask the player what he intended with his action and his mentioning of Ilmatar. Misunderstandings can always happen and maybe the player counted on every fight being CR appropriate or the rule of cool would apply.

Besides that, I´d do nothing.

[Remuko]

Also, anything that gives negative levels (Res, Raise Dead) means he would die as soon as he was revived. When negative levels = HD, you die.

Unfortunately, this early on, your actions will set a precedent, and expectations. Both paths have their pros and cons, and it is up to you to choose how it will go from here.

If you are lvl 1 when raised you take a minus to CON instead of level loss iirc

[SirNMN]

Let him meet death. I have a character in my campaign world who almost became a god, but turned from the path to save a friend at the last moment as such once per persons life they can meet him. he will give them an a let then challenge him or accept a quest from him. Recover a missing timer, find the name of a nameless grave, acquire a scroll to concentrate a new grave yard, or repair an old one. since they gods don't intervene he moves in their stead.

Do something like that. You can let him know it is a one time deal. Still salvage the situation from becoming a pointless death as he believed he was acting in his gods name. Which is a good RP reason to act. Let him know he doesn't need to act if it means just another corpse.

Most real-world religions that have rules also have a "these rules are trumped by staying alive and healthy" clause.

If you want the sheet let me know. Just a word of warning he has a little homebrew since he is something between god and mortal

Or he is dead. Actions have consequences he rushed in and died. Keeps people from doing it again in the future, and his twin who is exactly the same in every way takes his place in the party

[Matrota]

If you really want to bring them back, make it a story plot. A location is discovered that can bring back the dead, but only if XY&Z conditions are met, and a powerful guardian bars the way for anyone unworthy. The character also sounds like they may qualify for the Sacred Watcher template from BoED, but that'd be too powerful to give them since it's LA+5 and everyone's first level. Perhaps you could nerf the template and have them gain some features from the template as they level, similar to racial HD. If they're really married to the character they'l likely tolerate thisso long as buyoff/reduced LA is involved, if not they can jjust make a new character.

[RFLS]

Lots of narrative answers in here that are great suggestions if everyone feels invested in the character, or the character is necessary/very helpful in moving the plot.

That being said...it's a level one character that acted like an idiot. Let him stay dead.

[Uncle Pine]

If a character of any level decides to pit himself into any unwinnable 1v1 fight knowing fully well he has no chance of winning and that he will die but demanding his god's intervention to save his ass after being killed, he dies.

If a 1st-level character decides to pit himself into any unwinnable 1v1 fight knowing fully well he has no chance of winning and that he will die but demanding his god's intervention to save his ass after being killed, he becomes a recurring joke at the table and will be remembered as "Johnny that guy who expected a god to save his 1st level ass". And then he dies.

EDIT: After the aforementioned character dies horribly, you should talk to the player (and the group in general) to see what they were expecting to happen and why. Learn their expectation about the tone of the campaign and what can or cannot happen, compare them to yours and work together to set standars everyone can agree on so that you don't have to go through a scene like this in the future and everyone can enjoy the game.

[Yahzi]

Occasional death is healthy in a D&D game. It keeps the players on their toes.

[death390]

YOU CALLED?










sorry had to do it, but yeah as everyone said this will set the tone for your game. if you do bring him back then they will expect you to save them when the go in over their heads (probably on purpose cause hey, no concequences right?). IF you do decide to bring him back i would suggest some mighty epic quest he must undertake for his diety would be in order. something that he gets no other benefit out of and would put him behind for awhile (cause seriously it is costly to rez someone).

[RFLS]

his diety

He must perform...the Atkins Ritual.