Removing a sub-school from a spell 3.5

[Skullruss]

I've looked up and down the aisles of the internet using googlefu to see if there's a way to bypass mind-affecting immunity (undead, constructs, etc.), but there's nothing. Just now did i think, "what if i remove the subschool?" Then the immunity doesn't matter, because it doesn't apply. I know there are classes and stuff that apply additional subschools like evil and whatnot, but i'm specifically trying to REMOVE the subschool or perhaps replace it with one not everything under the sun is immune to, like shadow subschool or figment. Preemptive thanks for replies.

[Matrota]

You can bypass those immunities by casting the spell using wish. Wish can replicate the effect of a spell as a universal spell instead of enchantment or w/e. Shadow Evocation can also do this iirc, but high level spells require wish.

[Goaty14]

Isn't there a certain feat that allows you to treat a spell as transmutation? You'd bypass the normal immunities, save for the shapechanger subtype.

[Kelb_Panthera]

Couple things:

(Mind-affecting) is a descriptor tag, not a subschool.

Dread witch gets fear affects, which are definitionally mind-affecting, right past immunities and can make large chunks of their spell loads into fear effects.

If you're twisting minds anyway, get something useful but vulnerable to mind-affecting magic under your sway and deal with the immune targets by siccing your guard dog on 'em.

It's almost always better to go around obstacles than to insist on bulling through them.

[Thurbane]

Isn't there a certain feat that allows you to treat a spell as transmutation? You'd bypass the normal immunities, save for the shapechanger subtype.

You might be thinking of the UA Transmuter variant ability:


Spell Versatility (Ex)
A 5th-level transmuter using this variant can adapt magic of other schools to his own style of spellcasting. For every five class levels that the transmuter gains, he can select one spell of any spell level that he has access to and treat it as if it were a transmutation spell. This means, for example, that the specialist can learn the spell normally and even prepare it as a bonus spell from the transmutation school. This spell can even be from a school that he has chosen as a prohibited school. Once a spell is chosen to be affected by this ability, it cannot be changed.

For example, a transmutation specialist using this variant has selected abjuration and necromancy as his prohibited schools. At 5th level, he gains access to 3rd-level spells. He chooses dispel magic and forever after treats dispel magic as if were a transmutation spell.

A transmuter using this variant does not gain bonus feats for advancing as a wizard.

[Darth Ultron]

Well, one way to do this is to simply make a new custom spell.

Just have your spell do whatever it is you want to do, but don't make it mind effecting.

For example, Hold Person is a Enchantment (Compulsion) [Mind-Affecting] spell that can effect anything with a mind and no immunity.

Halt Undead is Necromancy and can effect any undead.....just like Hold Person(but it's not).

So, just like that.

[Goaty14]

You might be thinking of the UA Transmuter variant ability:

Yea, that. Just go find such a wizard who just so happens to have the spell in question as transmutation and have him make you a wand/scroll/etc. Anything is possible in magic-mart.

[Afgncaap5]

Yea, that. Just go find such a wizard who just so happens to have the spell in question as transmutation and have him make you a wand/scroll/etc. Anything is possible in magic-mart.

Maybe... does "treat it as if it were a transmutation spell" actually mean it's transmutation now? I think it's more that the spell is still whatever it used to be, but the transmuter is pretending it isn't.

Hmm... and could this actually lead to an occasional false positive for Detect Magic for a Transmuter with this? Like, if they pick False Life as their transmuted spell, and cast Detect Magic on a Necromancer who just has False Life on him, would the Transmuter then say "Yeah, that guy's definitely got some sort of Transmutation effect on him..."

Like, I imagine that a Transmuter on this path is probably smart enough and/or has enough ranks in Spellcraft to see that it's obviously Necromancy, but the spell itself might suggest otherwise.

[SirNMN]

Maybe... does "treat it as if it were a transmutation spell" actually mean it's transmutation now? I think it's more that the spell is still whatever it used to be, but the transmuter is pretending it isn't.

Hmm... and could this actually lead to an occasional false positive for Detect Magic for a Transmuter with this? Like, if they pick False Life as their transmuted spell, and cast Detect Magic on a Necromancer who just has False Life on him, would the Transmuter then say "Yeah, that guy's definitely got some sort of Transmutation effect on him..."

Like, I imagine that a Transmuter on this path is probably smart enough and/or has enough ranks in Spellcraft to see that it's obviously Necromancy, but the spell itself might suggest otherwise.

The question I have is whether when the cleric cast detect magic looking for necromancers trying to sneak into town will see the False Life as a transmutation or necromancy spell

[Thurbane]

Hmm, I'm wondering if, from the wording of Spell versatility, it extends to non-Wizard spells?

[Goaty14]

Hmm, I'm wondering if, from the wording of Spell versatility, it extends to non-Wizard spells?

I guess. "Access to" is pretty vague as to what constitutes that. I'd assume it'd be undisputed if you did Cleric X/Transmuter 5 since he could prepare a normally divine spell as transmutation (of course, his one and only spell that he could count as transmutation), but if he picked up a scroll of resurrection, then that gets in the gray area.

[Anthrowhale]

I've looked up and down the aisles of the internet using googlefu to see if there's a way to bypass mind-affecting immunity (undead, constructs, etc.), but there's nothing. Just now did i think, "what if i remove the subschool?" Then the immunity doesn't matter, because it doesn't apply. I know there are classes and stuff that apply additional subschools like evil and whatnot, but i'm specifically trying to REMOVE the subschool or perhaps replace it with one not everything under the sun is immune to, like shadow subschool or figment. Preemptive thanks for replies.

To bypass mind-affecting immunity on an undead, look into the Song of the Dead feat. For Constructs, look into Greater Humanoid Essence spell. For anything not immune to polymorph, look into polymorph any object.