Need help with spell: Geas wording

[Iliumin]

Hello everyone!

So I'm about to start a new campaign with my playgroup and I want to bring the party all together by basically saying they were caught in whatever province they started in, and were brought to the Mage Tower to be pressed into military service.
I want to impress upon them how powerful the Mage Tower is, and start them with a message of "don't **** with us", so of course they'll be casting Geas (PHB p.244 (https://roll20.net/compendium/dnd5e/Geas#content)) on every party member - the year version (though the party may not know the duration).

I'm looking for help with the wording for the Geas. I want the party members to have wiggle room and promote clever thinking, but at the same time pretty much feel like they have no choice but to work for the tower.

I'm thinking something like: "Don't endanger any member of the Mage Tower, either through action or inaction (but indirect action, like convincing people the Tower is a bunch of jerks is ok). Don't lie to any member of the Mage Tower (but lying by omission is ok). Perform all duties required of you by any member of the Mage Tower."

What do you guys think? Anywhere I can give more wiggle room? Anything I should add?

[JackPhoenix]

Those are 3 separate commands. Nothing in Geas' description suggests you can give more than one. And no, you can't use the spell multiple times thanks to spell stacking rules.

Also, doing this at all can be a good way to anger your players.

[Iliumin]

Those are 3 separate commands. Nothing in Geas' description suggests you can give more than one.
The description says that "you can issue any command you choose." Couldn't that command simply be: do x, y, and z? I feel like it could be worded as a single statement with multiple conditions, no? Like saying "Get off your butt and clean your room."


thanks to spell stacking rules.
Spell stacking rules? I've never heard of these, can you elaborate on this?


Also, doing this at all can be a good way to anger your players.
Fair point...I'm hoping it'll be a fun and unique way to get everyone on the same page (something I've struggled with in the past), but I will definitely broach it with the group beforehand to make sure they're ok with it.

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If it is something that they decide could be fun, do you have any suggestions on rules that might be imposed by the tower or ways to phrase them so that the players have some wiggle room in the interpretation?

[PhantomSoul]

Spell stacking rules? I've never heard of these, can you elaborate on this?




C o m b i n i n g M a g i c a l E f f e c t s
The effects of different spells add together while the durations of those spells overlap. The effects of the same spell cast multiple times don't combine, however. Instead, the most potent effect—such as the highest bonus—from those castings applies while their durations overlap.
For example, if two clerics cast bless on the same target, that character gains the spell’s benefit only once; he or she doesn’t get to roll two bonus dice.

(Emphasis mine) Here there's probably no "most potent effect" (unless you want to rate the commands for RP reasons or as a way to escape a Geas on a technicality!), but in principle only one Geas effect can be active from a single target. Geas is a bit weird, though, based on the type of effect, but it could be reasonable to Geas someone to get them out of another Geas.

[MrStabby]

Geas could work well. It is not so powerful a painful effect that people can't disobey. It doesn't really impinge on player freedom this way.

It also does meet your criteria for showing power so could work. It also will have the side effect of making your players hate these antagonists so might be a good way to increase player engagement.

[Iliumin]

Here there's probably no "most potent effect" (unless you want to rate the commands for RP reasons or as a way to escape a Geas on a technicality!), but in principle only one Geas effect can be active from a single target. Geas is a bit weird, though, based on the type of effect, but it could be reasonable to Geas someone to get them out of another Geas.

Ahh thank you very much sir! Though that's very clever - I think I will absolutely allow them to Geas themselves out of the Geas :P.


It is not so powerful a painful effect that people can't disobey.
This was my hope. They can pick and choose when to disobey, though it hurts enough to make them think twice as doing so will result in the party expending resources (like healing) - and the damage won't happen more than once per day, so they can eat it and go about their business.


It also does meet your criteria for showing power so could work. It also will have the side effect of making your players hate these antagonists so might be a good way to increase player engagement.
This was also my hope. The last campaign ended with one of the party members slitting everyone else's throats in their sleep (though in very, very, small fairness they had all been bitten by werewolves). I'm hoping that by having the Geas looming over them, that it will bond the party together against a common foe and function as a deterrent against the party splitting up.

[Iliumin]

The last campaign ended with one of the party members slitting everyone else's throats in their sleep.
Just to elaborate on this so I'm not seen as a completely horrible DM :smalleek:...Party was camping for the evening, had one person up on that particular watch. He saw the werewolves maneuvering on the camp and opted to stealthily run away rather than raise the alarm. ONE werewolf got a sneak attack in, but I allowed the party to wake up automatically as soon as the first person was attacked - who was the tank, and who was sleeping in his armor. Half the remaining party split and ran, the other half stood and fought. After a couple of rounds, when things seemed dire for those that remained, the original guy that snuck away came back and joined in, which caused the other two that had run to use meta-knowledge and reconsider, which I allowed in the face of party unity. At this point, I disengaged the fight, having the werewolves run away. They gave chase. I had one of the werewolves give up running and go back to try to grab one of the unconscious from the fight (by which I mean kidnap). They continued to give chase AND went back to save their other party member, thus splitting even further. The fight finally came down to one of them left standing, taking the dodge action every round and using his bonus action to do damage. The final werewolf died and that party member decided he didn't want to wait and see if any of his party members would turn, and preceded to slit all of their throats.
They massively outclassed the fight and should have mopped the floor with it, but had 0 team cohesion.
That's a completely bad way to go, but I wasn't sure how to stop that from happening without interfering directly in the player's actions.