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View Full Version : Optimization Magic Initiate or Ritual Caster



ProsecutorGodot
2018-02-19, 04:12 AM
I just started a campaign of SKT. I'm playing a VHuman Blood Hunter 13/18/18/18/18/12 (I rolled fantastically on stats) and I've been having trouble deciding between Magic Initiate or Ritual Caster for my level 4 feat. The reason that I've decided specifically between the 2 is because I captured and befriended the Tressym Rillix and my DM has given the OK for using him as a familiar.

Some important notes that I've been struggling with:
-The Spells have to be from Wizard for Find Familiar
-I'm using TWF so GFB and BB don't interest me much, unless I'm misunderstanding I'm pretty sure casting those spells doesn't allow for an off-hand strike
-Right now I only have a sack of darts for ranged combat so Flame Bolt could be really handy
-With a Sorcerer and a Bard in the party, someone else is bound to pick up Detect Magic, which would be my second choice of ritual
-I have no idea how feasible it would be for me to find ritual spells to add to my book later
-The ritual spell list is a bit limited and I would probably get more use out of a cantrip
-Even though the Tressym would help me get darkvision during exploration, I'd still like to have a way to light up a fight

DeTess
2018-02-19, 05:04 AM
The question is simple: do you want a pair of cantrips, or a list of utility spells that grows over time?

If you go for cantrips, I'd pick either two utility (presti, light, etc.), or a utility and a ranged damage.

With ritual caster, you'd eventually get a lot of the instant camp spells, servant type spells, detect magic, read language, etc.

In your case, I'd probably pick ritual caster, as your two casters should be able to cover the cantrip-based needs, but a lot of wizard rituals aren't on the sorcerer list. I would confirm with your dm that you would be able to find more rituals first though.

Quoz
2018-02-19, 07:19 AM
Under normal circumstances, I would point out that just taking magic initiate would let you cast find familiar from a scroll. In most settings even where magic items are scarce you should be able to find a level 1 wizard who can scribe a few scrolls.

As this is more of you looking for a mechanical means to achieve a reward based on role-playing, I would also look at working out other ways to maybe make this work. Your situation sounds more like what a chain pact warlock would end up with.

If it just comes down to a choice between magic initiate and ritual caster for find familiar, it would come down to your table's playstyle. If you are a combat based kick-in-the-door-and-roll-initiative group, go for the cantrips. Mold Earth is my personal favorite for flexible utility. If you are a more intrigue and exploration group where ritual casting will see frequent use, then go for rituals. Anything with detect in its name is a great pick.

It is also worth pointing out that a one level dip in wizard gets you the full effects of both spells and more. You certainly have the stats to consider a build with many class combos.

ProsecutorGodot
2018-02-19, 07:40 AM
It is also worth pointing out that a one level dip in wizard gets you the full effects of both spells and more. You certainly have the stats to consider a build with many class combos.
I hadn't even thought of this, taking Wizard 1 would get me the best of both worlds and I could get War Wizard as my tradition later down the line. I don't even lose than much from Blood Hunter since the level 9 feature is heavily roleplay focused and my Tressym will give me the darkvision that my level 10 feature would have given me.

Thank you for pointing this out, this is almost certainly going to be my decision.

nickl_2000
2018-02-19, 08:06 AM
I hadn't even thought of this, taking Wizard 1 would get me the best of both worlds and I could get War Wizard as my tradition later down the line. I don't even lose than much from Blood Hunter since the level 9 feature is heavily roleplay focused and my Tressym will give me the darkvision that my level 10 feature would have given me.

Thank you for pointing this out, this is almost certainly going to be my decision.

To make this even better, if you do wizard you also get access to shield. That spell alone is worth the dip.

Citan
2018-02-19, 08:53 AM
I just started a campaign of SKT. I'm playing a VHuman Blood Hunter 13/18/18/18/18/12 (I rolled fantastically on stats) and I've been having trouble deciding between Magic Initiate or Ritual Caster for my level 4 feat. The reason that I've decided specifically between the 2 is because I captured and befriended the Tressym Rillix and my DM has given the OK for using him as a familiar.

Some important notes that I've been struggling with:
-The Spells have to be from Wizard for Find Familiar
-I'm using TWF so GFB and BB don't interest me much, unless I'm misunderstanding I'm pretty sure casting those spells doesn't allow for an off-hand strike
-Right now I only have a sack of darts for ranged combat so Flame Bolt could be really handy
-With a Sorcerer and a Bard in the party, someone else is bound to pick up Detect Magic, which would be my second choice of ritual
-I have no idea how feasible it would be for me to find ritual spells to add to my book later
-The ritual spell list is a bit limited and I would probably get more use out of a cantrip
-Even though the Tressym would help me get darkvision during exploration, I'd still like to have a way to light up a fight
Hi!

Honestly, I'll support what others said and go beyond (note that I have not idea what a "Blood Hunter" is though, so I don't know what you get in this class and as a consequence how high you want absolutely reach): definitely make a 2 or 3-level dip into Bladesinger Wizard IF your DM agrees to disregard the racial prerequisite (since he allows homebrew, my guess is you have at least a decent chance). Otherwise, War or Diviner can be nice too.

With that high an INT anyways, as little as 1 just for some rituals and spells and as high as 6 levels in Wizard (Haste, Slow, Fear, Rope Trick, LTH, Longstrider, etc) are equally good. It all depends on what your character revolves around.

ProsecutorGodot
2018-02-19, 09:14 AM
To make this even better, if you do wizard you also get access to shield. That spell alone is worth the dip.
I think I'd have to take War Caster to make that work nice with my Dual Wielder feat. I can just stow and redraw my offhand to cast during my turn, but if I wanted the reaction to Shield I'd lose my +1 ac without War Caster. Stowing my weapon would also dispel the rite off of it.

I guess War Caster would be a pretty good option to replace my level 4 feat if I'm going to be taking spellcasting levels.

Hi!

Honestly, I'll support what others said and go beyond (note that I have not idea what a "Blood Hunter" is though, so I don't know what you get in this class and as a consequence how high you want absolutely reach): definitely make a 2 or 3-level dip into Bladesinger Wizard IF your DM agrees to disregard the racial prerequisite (since he allows homebrew, my guess is you have at least a decent chance). Otherwise, War or Diviner can be nice too.

With that high an INT anyways, as little as 1 just for some rituals and spells and as high as 6 levels in Wizard (Haste, Slow, Fear, Rope Trick, LTH, Longstrider, etc) are equally good. It all depends on what your character revolves around.
I had considered that, but Blood Hunters use their bonus action to empower their weapons with Rite damage (Blood Hunters are the homebrew class from Matthew Mercer on DNDBeyond). I'm already experiencing a bit of bog down from having to empower both my weapons with Rite damage separately, so having another turn to set up blade dance would only make the issue worse. War Wizard seems to hit a nice balance between not taking my actions and giving me tangible benefits for just 2 levels.

6BH/4Wiz is probably the cut off I can expect since 6th level is where my Rite damage increases from a d4 to a d6. I'm also a lot more of a stickler for the Elf/Half Elf restriction than my DM is.

Citan
2018-02-19, 10:42 AM
Ah. Yes indeed if you already have 2 turns with fixed bonus action it makes Bladesinger more difficult to mix in unless the specific case of you having several encounters before a long rest and this rite ability of yours drying up often as a result.

Joe the Rat
2018-02-19, 09:14 PM
A selling point on ritual caster (or wizard) is detect magic. You do have two other casters, but 1) they would have to use one of their limited known spells to get it, and 2) only the bard could ritual cast it, so you have high odds of spell slots being needed.

Ventruenox
2018-02-20, 01:56 PM
That one level of Wizard will get you the ritual you want, plus an amazing amount of utility with the first level spells. After that, the Profane Soul Blood Hunter has a unique opportunity if UA multiclassing is also permitted. Two Druid levels into Circle of Spores will enable you to start doing silly amounts of damage with your normal attack. As a primarily martial class, delayed spell progression is not a concern.

Spore Druids can use their wildshape to deal an extra 1d6 poison damage per attack, plus the option of using your reaction to deal additional poison damage. This effect can stack with your Blood Rites and the Hex spell. You end up with 3 attacks a round that can add 3d6 onto each attack plus modifiers. The resources refresh with a short rest as well.