So exactly how should I take advantage of Devil's Sight - Darkness combo?

[Mordna]

So I'm a level 8 Tiefling Pact of the Blade Hexblade Warrior with a Greatsword, wearing Half-Plate and +2 Ring of Protection (AC 19).

I've been slowly working my way up to being melee-focused with higher damage output (UA Invocation: Curse Bringer). And I finally got to pick Devil's Sight as an Invocation. Because Tieflings have the 1/LR Darkness racial trait, and I alwayss wanted to take advante of that. So I was saying to myself, I will get Devil's Sight one day and have fun with it then! BUT! Now that I actually have it I don't know how to use it effectivly. As in not disadvanteging my party members. If more of us are in melee, I'm effectively blinding everyone, not just the enemy and doing a disservice to the ranged people too, especially if I cast Darkness on something I'm wearing/using to move with me. It sounded like a good plan, but I need a better way.

Thank you for your answers/suggestions. And let me know if you need more clarification.

[Quoz]

A few ways to get more mileage out of this combo:

Isolating part of the enemy group: most combats have more than one enemy. If you have the room, teleport to the back lines and force casters/archers to either deal with you or escape the darkness. They either run forward into melee with the rest of your party, or back off and now lose line of sight to everybody which takes them out of the fight for a while.

Help party members be effective in the darkness. Fighting in the dark normally gives both advantage (you are effectively invisible) and disadvantage (you are effectively blind). So long as they know where enemies are, you can still fight in the dark. Saving throw spells are unaffected. The alertness feat means enemies still take disadvantage to hit. A bat familiar can use blindsight and telepathy to help pick target areas. Your archers can shoot from long distance or point blank with no extra penalties.

You are also really close to getting Shadow of Moil, which for you can outclass Darkness in almost every respect.

[Mordna]

You make a very good point with isolating the archers/mages in the back, thank you.

However, having advangate (from being invisible) and disadgvantage (because you can't see) cancelling eachother out just seems wrong. Two creatures blindly swinging at eachother can not possibly have the same effect as seeing eachother. I do not know what is the RAW for this, but my DM ruled it as everyone has disadvantage on everything. And honestly that feels fair to me.

Also, what do you mean saving throw spells are unaffected? They still need to be targeted and you need to see to do that. Please correct me if I'm wrong.

[Crgaston]

“Everyone has disadvantage” makes more actual sense, but this IS a fantasy game, and the only purpose it serves is to make combats last a lot longer. So the RAW “they cancel each other out, roll as normal” makes a different kind of sense as well.

[prototype00]

The way I do it (Hexblade Warlock myself) is to Skirmish! You move in and get your hits in, then you move out. Thus avoiding the issue of allies not seeing the foe. If enemies are blinded, you don't take opportunity attacks for doing this (requires enemies see you).

With a greatsword is a bit difficult, as the range is 5ft (you have to move closer and further out to avoid your party with darkness), but if you have a reach weapon (Glaive or Halberd), you can have your enemy just at the periphery of your darkness, make your attacks and then move away.

[Mikal]

So I'm a level 8 Tiefling Pact of the Blade Hexblade Warrior with a Greatsword, wearing Half-Plate and +2 Ring of Protection (AC 19).

I've been slowly working my way up to being melee-focused with higher damage output (UA Invocation: Curse Bringer). And I finally got to pick Devil's Sight as an Invocation. Because Tieflings have the 1/LR Darkness racial trait, and I alwayss wanted to take advante of that. So I was saying to myself, I will get Devil's Sight one day and have fun with it then! BUT! Now that I actually have it I don't know how to use it effectivly. As in not disadvanteging my party members. If more of us are in melee, I'm effectively blinding everyone, not just the enemy and doing a disservice to the ranged people too, especially if I cast Darkness on something I'm wearing/using to move with me. It sounded like a good plan, but I need a better way.

Thank you for your answers/suggestions. And let me know if you need more clarification.

Curse Bringer has been replaced with Eldritch Smite, so you'll want to change that out.
Your strategy is pretty sound, place it on your weapon, and then move in and out of melee combat.

One important note is that when you get to spell level 4 you get access to Shadow of Moil, which largely negates the Darkness/Devils Sight combo as it's better in every way for you and the party except for the smaller duration.

My recommendation is once you get to this level swap Darkness for SoM, and trade out Devil's Sight for another invocation.

EDIT: Actually, you're level 8 now. Don't even bother with Darkness/Devil's Sight.
Take Shadow of Moil, save an invocation for something else, and go to town without worrying about a lot of the drawbacks of Darkness/Devil's Sight.

EDIT 2: Sorry, as a tiefling you obviously can't retrain your racial spell. Still, personally don't think it's worth it to use an invocation just for a 1/day ability when you get more out of Shadow of Moil.

[Mordna]

The way I do it (Hexblade Warlock myself) is to Skirmish! You move in and get your hits in, then you move out. Thus avoiding the issue of allies not seeing the foe. If enemies are blinded, you don't take opportunity attacks for doing this (requires enemies see you).

With a greatsword is a bit difficult, as the range is 5ft (you have to move closer and further out to avoid your party with darkness), but if you have a reach weapon (Glaive or Halberd), you can have your enemy just at the periphery of your darkness, make your attacks and then move away.

Thanks, that's a great idea! As I was reading I was thinking but but what about opprtunity attacks? LOL That's what Darkness is for of course! :) However I'm not going to move on to use a polearm, as my greatsword is a really badass magic weapon that I bound to be my pact weapon.

[Mordna]

EDIT: Actually, you're level 8 now. Don't even bother with Darkness/Devil's Sight.
Take Shadow of Moil, save an invocation for something else, and go to town without worrying about a lot of the drawbacks of Darkness/Devil's Sight.

EDIT 2: Sorry, as a tiefling you obviously can't retrain your racial spell. Still, personally don't think it's worth it to use an invocation just for a 1/day ability when you get more out of Shadow of Moil.

I may be dumb, but could you please explain why Shadow of Moil is better? I am looking at the spell... and I don't see the superiority except for the resistance to radiant damage (which in current campaign irrelevant) and the damage after being hit...
This may be situational, but I personally go for NOT being hit that often and it's a bit vague in the wording "the shadows lash out at that creature". Does it use my reaction for that?

Also, taking this would mean spending one (half) of my spellslots on this, where Darkness is for free. And sadly don't get many battles between long rests anyway, hence me going for more melee-tank type that does awesome magic here and there, then full caster at it's best...

(And please don't tell me I should play a different class or multiclass. I have weighed the options, and I love my character, she stays a Warlock. Thank you for understanding.)

[Mordna]

Curse Bringer has been replaced with Eldritch Smite, so you'll want to change that out.


I know it has been replaced in Xanathar's but Curse Bringer is much better. As I started playing my Hexblade Warrior before the publishing of Xanathar's my DM allowed me to keep it/choose it.

The best thing about Curse Bringer is not just the smite ability. It actually allows you to move youre Hexblade's Curse once you killed the target. That is such an advantage it is actually a patron feature at level 14! Also the smite with Curse Bringer also reduces the creature's speed to 0 until the end of my next turn.

EDIT: And the damage is much better too: 2d8/spell level! :amused:

[Mikal]

I may be dumb, but could you please explain why Shadow of Moil is better? I am looking at the spell... and I don't see the superiority except for the resistance to radiant damage (which in current campaign irrelevant) and the damage after being hit...
This may be situational, but I personally go for NOT being hit that often and it's a bit vague in the wording "the shadows lash out at that creature". Does it use my reaction for that?

The important part is you being heavily obscured, but the opponents are not. The biggest benefits for darkness/devils sight is that you get advantage when attack and the enemy gets disadvantage.

Shadow of Moil provides this for you without handicapping your parties effectiveness. In addition, if you do get hit the enemy take damage with no save. Also, Shadow of Moil is harder to dispel/counterspell, and isn't negated by a 3rd level or higher spell that creates light. All that, plus the only abilities that can pierce SoM are tremorsense and blindsight makes SoM the superior spell for you.


Also, taking this would mean spending one (half) of my spellslots on this, where Darkness is for free. And sadly don't get many battles between long rests anyway, hence me going for more melee-tank type that does awesome magic here and there, then full caster at it's best...

Push for more short rests? If you're playing a warlock if you're only getting 1 or 2 fights per long rest you'll never get the most out of your class regardless, and I'd personally play a Paladin over Warlock in those situations. I'm not saying play a different class or multiclass, I'm saying that the warlock simply isn't built with a 15 minute adventuring day in mind. If you aren't getting short rests, than you're being nerfed, both because of your lack of slots but the freedom of long rest casting classes to nova and do more than you.


I know it has been replaced in Xanathar's but Curse Bringer is much better. As I started playing my Hexblade Warrior before the publishing of Xanathar's my DM allowed me to keep it/choose it.

Well, their game I suppose. Personally if there's a UA that's been replaced with official items, I always go with official, but different strokes for different folks.


The best thing about Curse Bringer is not just the smite ability. It actually allows you to move youre Hexblade's Curse once you killed the target. That is such an advantage it is actually a patron feature at level 14! Also the smite with Curse Bringer also reduces the creature's speed to 0 until the end of my next turn.

EDIT: And the damage is much better too: 2d8/spell level! :amused:

Yes. I get that it's better, but as you pointed out above it's abilities have been cannibalized into the class itself, and the damage was considered too good. You also lose the ability to knock someone prone that Eldritch Smite provides. But if your DM is fine with it... eh, whatever.

Also, Curse Bringer was originally balanced by the fact you couldn't use Charisma to hit and damage with a greatsword with the Hexblade as it was at that time. You had to use Strength. And again, in spite of that, it was considered to still be too good.

[Mordna]

Also, Curse Bringer was originally balanced by the fact you couldn't use Charisma to hit and damage with a greatsword with the Hexblade as it was at that time. You had to use Strength. And again, in spite of that, it was considered to still be too good.

Yes, that indeed is so. And because I whined about it, my DM 'found' me a magical greatsword that gives 19 in STR to whomever is attuned but only to use the sword. (My original STR is 5). Getting that sword was an adventure on it's own with repeated encounters with the boss wielding it, until we got it. I know it was homebrewed especially for me, so I'm gonna shut up, use my greatsword and Curse Bringer and be greatful to the DM. :)

Thank you for the clarification, I will deffinately consider switching to Shadow of Moil when I level up again. Now... which yummy invocation will I pick next?... :smallbiggrin:

[Mikal]

Yes, that indeed is so. And because I whined about it, my DM 'found' me a magical greatsword that gives 19 in STR to whomever is attuned but only to use the sword. (My original STR is 5). Getting that sword was an adventure on it's own with repeated encounters with the boss wielding it, until we got it. I know it was homebrewed especially for me, so I'm gonna shut up, use my greatsword and Curse Bringer and be greatful to the DM. :)

Thank you for the clarification, I will deffinately consider switching to Shadow of Moil when I level up again. Now... which yummy invocation will I pick next?... :smallbiggrin:

Relentless Hex to close in on your Curse targets?
Maddening Hex to do some extra and splash damage?
Cloak of Flies for a small aura effect?

Basically, I'd go with anything that uses your unused bonus action.

[silvertree]

The important part is you being heavily obscured, but the opponents are not.

Is that necessarily the case? Opponents within 10ft might end up in darkness. Which is no big deal for those with darkvision, but if OP's group has humans, he's back in the same situation he's trying to avoid.

[Chugger]

“Everyone has disadvantage” makes more actual sense, but this IS a fantasy game, and the only purpose it serves is to make combats last a lot longer. So the RAW “they cancel each other out, roll as normal” makes a different kind of sense as well.

But don't worship at this altar. Really. Just don't. Darkness should impose disadvantage on all (w/out dev site or equiv) - and also if a target is in darkness (and attacker can't see into it) you should justify how you even have a sense of which part of the darkness to aim at or swing at - at all. AoE spells, that's different.

If you're using darkness to gain advantage on your melee attacks, but you need to move a lot because the rest of the party can't see in darkness, consider using reach weapon. You don't have to get so close to the target and gives more flexibility as to how you move in and out on your turn to attack. (if you're a melee striker, try it out - play some "test mode" rounds on your own, on a grid w/ minis, and see how easy or hard it is to make darkness work for you - you can if there is any size or openness to your battlefield move in, strike, then move back and let your friends be in the light. Not hard at all. Only gets dicey when fighting in halls or small rooms, that sort of thing)

Players who are really hurt can come into your darkness to drink healing potions - or so they can pop out and shoot an arrow (or a range spell) and then go back into the darkness - even if they can't see in darkness. Maybe they have to slow down a bit to get out w/out stumbling - maybe a DM would rule the first 5' are like diff terrain - but you can still work it.

[Laserlight]

I played a hexblade for three or four levels. As I recall, there was a single instance in all that time when one character didn't have a target due to my Darkness. (I actually left a couple of targets outside the Darkness, but someone killed them before our archer got his turn). If the enemy is bunched up, you move in, attack, and move out. If the enemy is spread out, you attack one who's off to one side and stay there; the baddie either has to engage you (at disadvantage) or move away and provoke an OA. NOTE: If you're usually in tight corridors with no room to maneuver, YMMV. Further Note: any kind of extra movement is helpful in this scenario.

The downside of Darkness is that it takes your first action in the combat; if your DM runs short combats, say 3-4 turns, then the combat may be half over before you get a chance to attack. And Darkness didn't usually last more than one combat, whereas Hex scales up with an extended duration. Why didn't they offer that with Darkness? :smallfurious:

When all is said and done, it's quite fun to be a cloud of death drifting across the battlefield, engulfing a hobgoblin and flowing on to leave nothing but hobgoblin sushi behind. You get a rep.