Learning new wildshapes via polymorph

[Estoma]

Hey there! Thanks in advance for your help here.

My problem is that my rather young and inexperienced druid has seen little of the world and its beasts. Unfortunately, he has not seen a desert nor a deep ocean, and hence cannot wildshape into the very useful giant scorpion or killer whale. However, the spell "polymorph" does not specify that you need to have seen the animal to turn into it. My question is: can my druid polymorph into a giant scorpion, check out his reflection, then have that beast form as an option for wildshape?

Next time I create a druid I'm working into their background that they grew up in a zoo!

Thanks :)

[Tubben]

can my druid polymorph into a giant scorpion, check out his reflection, then have that beast form as an option for wildshape?


The Problem is the following Sentence with Polymorph:


The target's game statistics, including mental ability scores, are replaced by the statistics of the chosen beast

Having an int of 3 doesent really help :)
You could polymoph someone else, that would work. Or you use Conjure Animals and hope the DM let you choose which creature you summon.

[the_brazenburn]

RAW? Yes, it works.

RAI? Probably not.

IRL? You should ask your DM, not us.

Also, if the druid is high enough level to cast Polymorph and to turn into high-CR beasts, how have you not encountered anything unusual yet?

[Estoma]

RAW? Yes, it works.

RAI? Probably not.

IRL? You should ask your DM, not us.

Also, if the druid is high enough level to cast Polymorph and to turn into high-CR beasts, how have you not encountered anything unusual yet?

I've been known to get in trouble for what I call 'optimisation' and my DM calls 'trying to get too much'. Ooops!

I suppose my party comes up against fey or other humaniods more than we do beasts. Now I think about it, I don't think we've seen any beasts higher CR than a warhorse.

[Estoma]

The Problem is the following Sentence with Polymorph:



Having an int of 3 doesent really help :)
You could polymoph someone else, that would work. Or you use Conjure Animals and hope the DM let you choose which creature you summon.

That's a good thought. I'm sure one of my allies wouldn't mind being polymorphed for a bit :)

[Tubben]

Also, if the druid is high enough level to cast Polymorph and to turn into high-CR beasts, how have you not encountered anything unusual yet?

My Druid is at ~430.000 XP (20+3 - 165 Sessions 'a 3 hours, currently), and i still miss Allosaurus, Ankylosaurus :-)

[the_brazenburn]

My Druid is at ~430.000 XP (20+3 - 165 Sessions 'a 3 hours, currently), and i still miss Allosaurus, Ankylosaurus :-)

True enough. But nobody can see everything. I just think it's odd that you've never been on a boat if your that high level.

[Estoma]

My Druid is at ~430.000 XP (20+3 - 165 Sessions 'a 3 hours, currently), and i still miss Allosaurus, Ankylosaurus :-)

Mmmm there's something alluring about bringing a dinosaur to the battlefield. What are you wildhshaping into now?

My DM ruled that there are no dinosaurs in this world which I took pretty hard :(

[Estoma]

True enough. But nobody can see everything. I just think it's odd that you've never been on a boat if your that high level.

It is, now you mention it. This character is a replacement for my half-orc fighter, so he's pretty new. I might have to slip into his backstory something about going on a ship. One of the players found a cape of water breathing last session so I sense an underwater adventure may be coming up...

[Drakefall]

A thought for an alternative form of beast shape acquisition should your DM find your polymorph method abusey (which it sounds like he might):

You've presumably heard of a lot of these animals IG, so it shouldn't be too difficult to figure out in what regions they live. Why not speak to the other players/characters and see if you can organise a bit of a safari to find some cool new forms?

You could make a quest out of if. Alternatively if you find yourself with a lot of down time you may be able to do it during that.

[the_brazenburn]

A thought for an alternative form of beast shape acquisition should your DM find your polymorph method abusey (which it sounds like he might):

You've presumably heard of a lot of these animas IG, so it shouldn't be too difficult to figure out in what regions they live. Why not speak to the other players/characters and see if you can organise a bit of a safari to find some cool new forms?

You could make a quest out of if. Alternatively if you find yourself with a lot of down time you may be able to do it during that.

Now that is a really good idea!

If you want Giant Scorpion and Killer Whale, you should play Storm King's Thunder. It has both seafaring and desert sections, and it's a really good module.

[Estoma]

A thought for an alternative form of beast shape acquisition should your DM find your polymorph method abusey (which it sounds like he might):

You've presumably heard of a lot of these animas IG, so it shouldn't be too difficult to figure out in what regions they live. Why not speak to the other players/characters and see if you can organise a bit of a safari to find some cool new forms?

You could make a quest out of if. Alternatively if you find yourself with a lot of down time you may be able to do it during that.

Mmmm, that would be a good quest-starter when we finish our current objective :)

[Estoma]

Now that is a really good idea!

If you want Giant Scorpion and Killer Whale, you should play Storm King's Thunder. It has both seafaring and desert sections, and it's a really good module.

I just did a quick google search. That looks like a snazzy module! My group is mostly creative writing masters so we tend to make up our own stories, but I do like the look of some of the modules...at least to have the encounters already planned out.

[Tubben]

Mmmm there's something alluring about bringing a dinosaur to the battlefield. What are you wildhshaping into now?

My DM ruled that there are no dinosaurs in this world which I took pretty hard :(

If i shapeshift, i use Elementar forms as utility forms (You can do some amazing things with them, if you are lv 20 and can play with wildshaping - try to attack an Earth Elementar in the Wilderness, if he's underground.).

If i need to fight, i use an Giant Crocodile (dont forget to attack with the tail first).

(cant post links)

dandwiki.com/wiki/5e_SRD:Giant_Crocodile

[Estoma]

If i shapeshift, i use Elementar forms as utility forms (You can do some amazing things with them, if you are lv 20 and can play with wildshaping - try to attack an Earth Elementar in the Wilderness, if he's underground.).

If i need to fight, i use an Giant Crocodile (dont forget to attack with the tail first).

(cant post links)

dandwiki.com/wiki/5e_SRD:Giant_Crocodile

Ooooh nice! My last character was killed by an earth elemental (with resistance to slashing, bludgeoning, etc, they are really not good for fighters). I'm really looking forward to accessing elemental wildshapes next time my character levels up. I'm guessing you can go underground, pop up to attack then hide under the ground again? That would make it very hard for the party, especially since a lot of spells are blocked by a few feet of stone.

I like the DC 16 to escape the grapple for the croc. Nice one!

[Tubben]

My DM ruled that there are no dinosaurs in this world which I took pretty hard :(

Btw, i will never understand why some DMs do this. Faerun has Dinosaurs, there are rules and statistics for it. I just dont get, why an DM would rule them out.
But i play weekly for 25 years with the same DM now, and never played with someone else. Thats why, maybe.

[Tubben]

I'm guessing you can go underground, pop up to attack then hide under the ground again? That would make it very hard for the party, especially since a lot of spells are blocked by a few feet of stone.



Yes, you can do that.


I like the DC 16 to escape the grapple for the croc. Nice one!

You need to attack with the tail first, get him prone and then have Advantage (given an failed dc 16 str check) for the bite.
If you attack with the bite first, and grapple him, you cant use your tail attack.

[Estoma]

Btw, i will never understand why some DMs do this. Faerun has Dinosaurs, there are rules and statistics for it. I just dont get, why an DM would rule them out.
But i play weekly for 25 years with the same DM now, and never played with someone else. Thats why, maybe.

Mmmm, I tried the same argument. I'm sure if the DM's boyfriend was the druid there'd be dinosaurs, but nope, I lucked out.

[Estoma]

Yes, you can do that.



You need to attack with the tail first, get him prone and then have Advantage (given an failed dc 16 str check) for the bite.
If you attack with the bite first, and grapple him, you cant use your tail attack.

That's clever. Noted!

[hymer]

My question is: can my druid polymorph into a giant scorpion, check out his reflection, then have that beast form as an option for wildshape?

Since you've already had some experience with the DM thinking you're overreaching, I'd definitely ask them. They can rule it either way.
That said, I'd allow it. In fact, I'd let you wild shape to any beast that exist in the campaign world, just to get out of the recurring wondering about whether your character has seen this beast or not. But that's a different story.
If you're interested in more thoughts on wild shaping or other things druidic, I do have a handbook on it - link in my signature. Eighth post deals with animals, fey and elementals for conjuring and wild shapes.

[TheCount]

ask them wether illiusions count or not.... after all, you dont know its an illusion unless you disbelive it.

[Estoma]

Since you've already had some experience with the DM thinking you're overreaching, I'd definitely ask them. They can rule it either way.
That said, I'd allow it. In fact, I'd let you wild shape to any beast that exist in the campaign world, just to get out of the recurring wondering about whether your character has seen this beast or not. But that's a different story.
If you're interested in more thoughts on wild shaping or other things druidic, I do have a handbook on it - link in my signature. Eighth post deals with animals, fey and elementals for conjuring and wild shapes.

I read your handbook when creating this character :D Thank you, by the way. It was very handy as I'd only ever played martial classes.

[Throne12]

You can ask your DM. If you can use this Method. You get 4 animal forms I took this from the iron druid series books. The runner, attacker, flyer, swimer.
The main character has runner (stag), attacker( Irish wolfhound), flyer ( owl), swimmer (sea otter)

the other druid has runner ( Horse), attacker (black Jaguar), flyer (falcon), swimer (sea lion).

Then attacker (black bear), runner ( ram), flyer (red kite), swimmer (walrus)

[sambojin]

Even if you're not allowed to backstory wildshapes in, it doesn't really matter. You're a druid. You've seen a bird. Turn into a bird and fly around for a few hours, taking particular note of any animals you see. Want water? Got water. Chances are, your character has seen a fish at some point. Take note of other water stuff while you have a swim.

Hell, turn into an air/water elemental if you don't mind the animals taking note of you as well. But it's surprising just how far most birds can fly in a few hours, and just how much you can see from 500' up. Plus, some are stated to have excellent eyesight. If your DM doesn't let you fill out a pretty basic list of wildshape creatures after lvl8, your world is either entirely devoid of life, or you haven't done that yet.

A few hours isn't downtime. It's just doing a spot of information gathering. In your case, useful information gathering.

I mean, even in Australia, you can go from Ocean to Coastal to Swamps to Plains to Forests to Hills to Jungle to Mountains to Desert'ish arid environments within about 160km/100miles of where I live (Gold Coast). That's not even an 8hr return trip by bird flight (not even fast bird flight, so you can take a bit in as you travel). So, skip sitting watch for an evening or two, and you can pretty much say "I've seen everything that isn't a dinosaur, because I'm a druid, and I can fly. Plus, I'm a druid. I take notice of animals. While I'm flying."

Even if you can't fly yet, this kind of applies to any druid. "Seen" does not mean "encountered". Your DM probably doesn't mention every animal in-game, but it's usually easiest to assume druids have seen EVERYTHING. Because if they haven't, within a day or two, they can.

If you wanted to, you could migrate north for the winter, across the entire world, within a week or two, eating goodberries all the way. Or just wander around as any animal, taking nature in, moving faster and more stealthily than any other character can. It's kind of what druids do. Most don't mention it, because it's just a part of the class. But if you've ever had any downtime between your adventures, that's what you were also doing on top of any actual downtime activities. So you've probably seen a bit by the time you can cast polymorph, making the "what should I see with polymorph?" question a bit irrelevant. You've already swum the deepest oceans, climbed the highest mountains, and poop on people just for fun.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_birds_by_flight_speed

As inexperienced as your character may be in the world character and RP-wise, from lvl2 onwards, druids do druiding. Fighters don't have to explain why their weapons are always sharp, you don't have to explain why you've seen nearly every animal in existence. It's the thing you do.