Swallow-Whole

[A Fat Dragon]

So, I was looking through the MM and Volo’s Guide to Monsters, and I saw the Swallow Whole mechanic. Now, me being curious, and a tinkerer, decided it might be fun to make a balanced (emphasis on balanced) race, involving this trait.

It’s easy to make an overpowered race, so that’s why I’m here. Is it possible to make a balanced PC race, or a balanced version of Swallow Whole meant for PCs?

[ErHo]

I believe this is covered in your last dragon PC thread where it was met with a definite "NO".

Especially at low levels it is.

Please consider your PC with the other party members. Could something big enough to swallow whole the average medium sized opponent really be useful for say indoors, or sneaking through corridors, etc. Assuming your whole campaign isnt entirely outside.

[A Fat Dragon]

I wasn’t planning on making a character, have too many as it is.

I’m the type of person to tinker around with the things that nobody really gives a second thought about. If the ability is that strong, than I guess the question is answered, no?

However, if that isn’t the conclusion, then we’ll just say it’s a level 10 campaign. I’m guessing the ability would require a Dex save, 8 + Prof + Strength seems reasonable. From there? Not sure.

[Angelalex242]

3.5 had ECL to let you play a hatchling dragon with a group of normal PCs.

5E does not have an equivalent for that yet.

[Kuulvheysoon]

3.5 had ECL to let you play a hatchling dragon with a group of normal PCs.

5E does not have an equivalent for that yet.

Mind you, those normal PCs all had to be at least level 6/7, if I recall correctly, even for a brass or white wyrmling.

[A Fat Dragon]

I wasn’t talking about dragons. Gosh, do I really give off that air? Don’t answer that question.

Guess I should’ve prefaced with that: this is not about making a Dragon PC. This is about tinkering with one of the many skills that aren’t really payed attention to.

[Easy_Lee]

On the index, I read "swallow whole a fat dragon." Just thought that deserved mentioning.

Swallow whole isn't really balanced for players. Two successful grapple checks render a target blinded and restrained with no opposed grapple check to escape. Meanwhile, the target dies of acid damage. A barbarian 5 - rogue 2 could make those two checks with expertise and advantage in the same attack, effectively neutralizing anything smaller than himself. Enlarge the barbarian and you'd be set.

Note that the blinded condition will prevent the creature from either teleporting away (usually requires sight) or targeting the character with most single target spells (requires a target you can see). It's a very strong condition, not something you should be able to impose easily, especially in combination with Restrained.

[A Fat Dragon]

From what I read, it was only a single strength save to escape equal to Natural Armor + Prof

[zinycor]

I dont know...

First in order to swallow whole you would need to be quite larger thn the creature being swallowed, or having a very special anatomy (like a giant frog).

Then, the swallowed creature gets hit by acid damage.

So, I would guess that a Bullywug that can swallow tiny creatures (like cats, ravens, or pixies), I guess that could work.

[UnderwaterAir]

Thematically and balance-wise it makes no sense for this property to be available to players.

Best thing I can imagine is maybe a level 5 spell for druids which produces a giant plant that attempts to swallow up and restrain a large or smaller target. It's a STR saving throw to get out of there against the druid's spell DC.

If they fail they can repeat it once at the beginning of their turn.
On your turn you can use your action to deal 3d8 poison damage to the target that is currently restrained.

Concentration, 1 minute.

But to allow a player to physically do this? No... we are not Pig God from One Punch Man. No race fulfills that role either for us.

[zinycor]

Thematically and balance-wise it makes no sense for this property to be available to players.

Best thing I can imagine is maybe a level 5 spell for druids which produces a giant plant that attempts to swallow up and restrain a large or smaller target. It's a STR saving throw to get out of there against the druid's spell DC.

If they fail they can repeat it once at the beginning of their turn.
On your turn you can use your action to deal 3d8 poison damage to the target that is currently restrained.

Concentration, 1 minute.

But to allow a player to physically do this? No... we are not Pig God from One Punch Man. No race fulfills that role either for us.

well, If you go Moon Druid you can transform into a giant toad at level 6 if am not mistaken, then you get to Swallow Medium size creatures.

EDIT: Level 4 Actually.

[Angelalex242]

Thematically and balance-wise it makes no sense for this property to be available to players.

Best thing I can imagine is maybe a level 5 spell for druids which produces a giant plant that attempts to swallow up and restrain a large or smaller target. It's a STR saving throw to get out of there against the druid's spell DC.

If they fail they can repeat it once at the beginning of their turn.
On your turn you can use your action to deal 3d8 poison damage to the target that is currently restrained.

Concentration, 1 minute.

But to allow a player to physically do this? No... we are not Pig God from One Punch Man. No race fulfills that role either for us.

Or, ya know, the Druid can use a TRex summon or TRex wild shape...and Welcome to Jurassic Park...

[A Fat Dragon]

Alright then.

However, the spell idea is interesting. Perhaps that could be fun thing to brew up.

If I’m speaking honestly, I don’t really want to make a character with this attribute. I just wanted to make a Feat/Race that had this attribute, so that if their was a person who wanted to use this, they could have a balanced option to use.

[zinycor]

It should be at the very least a 3rd lvl spell. It holds a creature, blinds it, and does damage to it. 2 of these effects are 2nd level spells already.

If you are willing to let go of the blinding part, Maximilian's Earthen Grasp is pretty much it.

[zinycor]

Alright then.

However, the spell idea is interesting. Perhaps that could be fun thing to brew up.

If I’m speaking honestly, I don’t really want to make a character with this attribute. I just wanted to make a Feat/Race that had this attribute, so that if their was a person who wanted to use this, they could have a balanced option to use.

As a Feat? it should be some sort of a mutation feat. And having a bunch of feats around mutation could be interesting

[A Fat Dragon]

As a Feat? it should be some sort of a mutation feat. And having a bunch of feats around mutation could be interesting

Mind if I take this idea a tiny bit, and make a mutation feats thing? It could be pretty fun to make, and I’d give credit if you want.

[zinycor]

Mind if I take this idea a tiny bit, and make a mutation feats thing? It could be pretty fun to make, and I’d give credit if you want.

As long as you have fun with the idea, Go wild.

[A Fat Dragon]

Thanks!
I think it might be easier to balance it as a Feat. Perhaps it might be helpful to look to the book of sinful evil (sorry if I got that wrong) for inspiration.

But, it’d make the mutations more Druid-y, and nature-y, and wild.

[zinycor]

Now, What I would do, is actually make it more of a Patron for warlock, something silly like "The mad Bio-scientist" Patron or something like that. Then I would make these mutations its invocations. That way you could have a bunch of different mutants depending on what invocations each one takes.

[A Fat Dragon]

That’s a good idea... I’ll have to keep that in mind.

[Lombra]

It can work, unlockable at level 3 maybe. When you successfully hit with a bite attack, you can attempt to swallow whole your prey. The creature (that can't be larger than you) must succeed a strength check contested by one of your own, or be swallowed. While swallowed, the creature is restrained, and will take 1d4 acid damage at the start of each of his rounds while being swallowed, this damage increases to 1d4+CON at level 5. While swallowing a creature, you can't stand up, and have to stay prone, or regurgitate the target. The target can attempt to escape by dealing more than CON+level damage in one single turn, falling prone in the nearest unoccupied space.

Edit: you can use this ability CON times a day

I wonder, a swallowed creature, even if restrained, is inside a creature, which we'll assume can't see its interiors, so the swallowed creature attacks at advantage, negated by the restrained condition, hence rolling normally?

[A Fat Dragon]

If it were to become a racial trait, what would the race look like, in your opinions?

[Lombra]

If it were to become a racial trait, what would the race look like, in your opinions?

Probably a yuan-ti aberration type of character, or maybe a crocodile/alligator humanoid, or a humanoid toad, maybe a wretched monstrosity that looks like a human but can open its mouth revealing it to actually open from one shoulder to another.

Something with a huge mouth on the chest/belly/back. It could be a magical absorption instead of a feral thing, using yourself as a prison for your enemies.

[zinycor]

As I said, for something like a bullywug, it would be like, once per long rest, the bullywug (An Small Creature) can attempt to Swallow a tiny criature (1 size lower). The target must succed a str DC equl to : 8 + prof bonus + Str bonus. or be swallowed. If swallowed the creature is considered restrained and blinded and takes 1d6 acid damage each turn.

Or somehting along those lines

[Laserlight]

You should probably decide what happens when you Swallow medium size druid, and she shapechanges into a plesiosaur. Just to pick an example totally out of the air, purely hypothetical, certainly not connected to any ongoing campaign that I happen to be in.

[A Fat Dragon]

Rational Me: The Druid gets expelled into the closest space adjacent to the creature

Morbid Me: The creature explodes, dying near instantly and leaving the Druid in the space where it once was.

[Dr. Cliché]

I could see myself allowing something like this via a feat. In terms of races, I'd probably allow it for Dragonborn and Yuan-Ti. Maybe others along those lines (like Nagas, if those end up as a playable race).

In both cases, I'd probably have it work something like this:
- Round 1 - You can either make a direct grapple check against a creature or else make a bite attack and can then make a grapple check if you hit (less reliable but you get your bite damage).
- Round 2 - If you start the round with a creature grappled, you can make a second grapple check. If you succeed, then you swallow the creature whole. However, this uses up both your Action and your Movement for this round (if you can't use both for any reason, then you can't swallow the creature this turn).
- Round 3 onwards - They take damage each turn and can attempt to escape in the usual manner.

Additional rules/notes:
- The creature you attempt to swallow must be smaller than you (so you'd normally be limited to stuff like Goblins, unless someone uses Enlarge Person on you). I might consider making exceptions to this, like allowing a more snake-y race to swallow a creature of their own size. However, it would probably only work on an incapacitated creature and would take about 10 minutes (so not a combat ability :smallwink:).
- You must be wearing either no armour or armour that does not restrict your gut (if you want to give me a laugh as DM, please bring up this subject with a blacksmith :smallbiggrin:).
- Swallowing a creature halves your movement rate until you've had time to digest it (note the word digest - merely having the creature die in your belly isn't enough). I might also say that you can't fly using wings during this time (magical flight/movement isn't restricted, obviously).
- Obviously, the weight of the creature and anything it was wearing/carrying will be added to the weight of your equipment. Any penalties you incur due to encumbrance will be in addition to having your speed reduced as above (I don't think this will be an issue, but it would definitely be advisable to favour strength over dex for this sort of thing).

Something along those lines, anyway.




Rational Me: The Druid gets expelled into the closest space adjacent to the creature

Morbid Me: The creature explodes, dying near instantly and leaving the Druid in the space where it once was.

I always favour the morbid answers to these questions. :smallamused:

[A Fat Dragon]

The Morbid answers are rather fun, aren’t they?

But yeah, a Yuan-Ti character who swallows enemies might be pretty interesting.

Another thing, what other fears should be added to the Mutation-Feats thing?

[zinycor]

Gills, Very long legs for jumping and giving looong steps, Wings, Darkvision, Acid spit, Tentacle arms, Regeneration, Elasticity, gecko fingers to stick to walls, Chameleon Skin, Toad Tongue...

[Dr. Cliché]

The Morbid answers are rather fun, aren’t they?

They are. And I always enjoy magic that has a bit of risk to it.


But yeah, a Yuan-Ti character who swallows enemies might be pretty interesting.

I'd love to see how the rest of your group reacts when they see you do this for the first time. :smallbiggrin:


Another thing, what other fears should be added to the Mutation-Feats thing?

Do you happen to own (or have access to) the D&D 3.5 book Serpent Kingdoms?

I ask because, especially if you're thinking Yuan-Ti, its feats could provide great inspiration.

Examples include:
- Barbed Stinger (you get a venomous sting at the end of your tail)
- Body Pouch (basically this http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/BodyPocket)
- Chameleonic Hide (You can alter your body's colours to match your surroundings, giving you a bonus on Hide checks)
- Gape of the Serpent (If you could normally swallow smaller creatures whole, you can now swallow creatures up to your own size)
- Prehensile Tail (You basically get to use your tail as an extra hand, including wielding weapons and such.)
- Spit Venom (Exactly what it says on the tin)

Obviously you'll have to update them to 5e, but there are a lot of fun ideas. If you do feel like converting them, bear in mind that feats in 5e are more scarce, so you might want to combine some of them or add attribute bonuses to them.