What to do with these scores?

[hymer]

I'm referring this question to the collective wisdom of the playgrounders:


My tempest cleric died, so my new stat rolls are pretty extreme ends of the spectrum.
13
5
17
7
11
12
What can I do with this? I'm thinking normal human to get a well rounded character(get boosts to 5 out of 6 stats), and maybe wild-shaping to compensate for my terrible scores. It's for tomb of annihilation, and we're level 4. I got punished pretty bad for casting spells of an evil deity, so no evil deities while casting spells. My other option might be a barbarian or rogue. (Just play them aggressively, and see how long he lasts.)

MaxWilson has already commented:

Those aren't terrible scores at all. If you want to go druid, you can obviously have a good Moon Druid even if you roll 3s in every stat--but you've got a 17! You could for example make a perfectly dandy loudmouthed braggart Sharpshooter Fighter: human Strength 7 Dex 18 (17+1) Con 14 (13+1) Int 11 Wis 12 Cha 5 w/ Sharpshooter. (He's wise enough to know that he offends people by talking about himself so much but he just doesn't care, hence Cha 5.) Could go Arcane Archer or Eldritch Knight as you prefer.

Basically you can excel at any SAD class or multiclass: Sorlock, Fighter, Rogue, Bardlock, Wizard, Druid, etc.

[Mortis_Elrod]

Gonna agree with the comment. Moon Druid benifets more when you have low physical stats and high mental stats. Other options would be another cleric, fighter (heavy armor Str build maybe), Hexblade and other things he mentioned.

Normal human is probably the way to go. Just to lessen the blow of so many low modifiers.

[Grod_The_Giant]

So you can easily have an 18 in your primary score, a 14 in your secondary, and a 12 in your tertiary. You'll just have one really crappy score. That's not bad, especially if you avoid anything MAD. So maybe steer clear of Monk, possibly Paladin, and anything too gish-y (Unless you're going heavy armor/casting-stat-to-attack-- a Nature Cleric with Shillelagh would be petty fierce). I wouldn't worry too much about effectiveness.

[MrWesson22]

I would make a great cleric with those stats. Pick one that gives heavy armor. I would choose life and start with 17 wis, 13 str, 11 con before racials. Roll up a hill dwarf and start with 18 wis and 13 con. Put that 5 in dex as you won't need it in heavy armor anyway. Choose resilient con at level 4 to get proficiency for concentration and bump you up to 14.

[white lancer]

Moon Druid is a great suggestion, but really anything that's SAD should be fine. Especially if you're looking at builds that can safely throw your bad scores into two of the reasonable dump stats (STR, INT, CHA). Sorcerer, Warlock, Bard, Wizard, and pretty much any DEX-based martial character aside maybe from Monk. And you can dump DEX instead of STR if wearing heavy armor (though DEX saves and Initiative are useful).

[KorvinStarmast]

My tempest cleric died, so my new stat rolls are pretty extreme ends of the spectrum.
13 5 17 7 11 12
What can I do with this?
Normal Human
Monk
After the plus ones: S 13 D 18 C 12 I 8 W 14 Ch 6
Might be better off with the S 8 and C 13, and pick up a feat at 4 or 8 that boosts Con +1 and gives prof in saves, but that's your call and if you use encumbrance having the low strength will make carrying stuff a pain.
I'll suggest way of shadows, but any of them would be fine.

[Angelalex242]

Any primary caster will work fine. Just make sure you pick a race that gives +2 to casting stat. Then you can get to 20 with a single stat+1 feat.

[Twigwit]

There's a lot of directions you can go with this, the real question is "how can I minimize the harm from the dump scores?"

This is how I would go about it: If I'm not playing an INT or CHA caster I'd put the 5 and 7 there where they can do the least harm. If I'm casting from one of those, STR seems like a good place to put the 7. If I'm casting from both, well uh, I screwed up somewhere.

[Citan]

I'm referring this question to the collective wisdom of the playgrounders:



MaxWilson has already commented:

Those are not terrible at all!
With normal human you get 14 6 18 8 12 13.
It's really easy to work around those.
14 goes to DEX (medium armor), 12 goes to CON, you still have a 13 (multiclass option!), a 6 (STR or INT), a 8 (any), a 18 (primary stat).

Fair options.
Single-class Ancients Paladin: 18 in CHA, 14 in DEX, whatever you want left: Aura of Protection will nicely debunk the risks associated with a -2 on stat, so technically you could even put a 8 in WIS if you'd like to keep a decent STR.

Abjuration Wizard: 18 in INT, 14 in DEX, 6 in STR, 13 in CON, 8 in CHA, 12 in WIS.
Perfectly understandable for someone that spent years studying in a library alone to lack some charisma and muscle, right?
You don't care anyways: you just need a robe, book and focus. Anything else, either a friend or a ritual can cover.
Variant: Bladesinger Wizard: better concentration, better AC, but less sturdy in the long run obviously (in terms of overall resilience, you can't beat Abjuration past lvl 14).

Arcane Trickster or Thief Rogue: DEX and CON is all you need, put 8 and 6 in whatever you want, even INT if you'd like (you have enough non-INT spells to use to not feel that much a waste). Plus you get WIS proficiency in the end.

Monk with Cleric or Draconic Sorcerer dip: DEX first, WIS second, CON third.
AC will hurt at low level, that's why dips are there for (Shield of Faith, or perma Mage Armor). Just be wary of restraining effects that often target directly STR checks, they may doom you.

[LVOD]

Honestly MADness is really minimized in 5e. You have one great stat, one pretty good, and one above average.

You can build pretty much any class you want. You will probably just not have a lot of spare ASIs for feats.

[HMS Invincible]

Thanks for the help with an individual thread. I wasn't sure if it warranted. I've looked into moon druid because the flavor and fun, but I noticed that it depends on a lot of dm generosity. I have so many questions due to the druid Nerf from 3.5.
Would a multi class Druid 3 /barb 1 work? Raging bear!
Would a paladin 1 dip work? Smiting bear!
Do I get to smite powered with druid spells? It says I can choose to meld equipment or wear it during wild shape. Is there a way to have an armored bear?
I suppose my con score will vary, is it worth it to dump con, and Dex?
It also says I get my class features, but the rules seem pretty harsh on wildshape benefiting at all. Can I flurry of blows? Can I use combat feats like mage Slayer, sentinel, tavern brawler etc etc?
How should I keep track of my forms when I play on Roll 20?
If my stats are fine, would it be worth while to skip normal human? Would half orc Savage attack work with wild shape?
Does my wisdom even matter for wild shape?
?

[white lancer]

A lot of those questions will be DM-dependent. It's worth noting that multiclassing will be a little tough with these stats, since you need at least a 13 in certain stats to multiclass in or out of a class. Paladin in particular requires both 13 CHA and 13 STR, which is tough because those are two obvious dump stat targets for a Druid (and you'd still need 13 WIS in order to multiclass out of Druid).

Absolutely prioritize WIS even as a Moon Druid. You're still a full caster and most of your power will come from that. CON and DEX will still be reasonably important, since you can't spend all of your time in Wild Shape (and if you have low CON and are knocked out of wild shape in melee, you'll be in a world of hurt)--STR is the easiest physical stat to ignore.

[Farecry]

Go read critical failures if you wanna see how much fun can be had with a low dump stat!!

[opaopajr]

Play whatever you want, those are fine stats. :smallsmile: Personally, I'd keep them in order for the challenge. Though I would take normal human because that's a lot of odd values begging to be corrected into evens.

My lazy method might be a Fighter or Life Cleric so I can compensate with heavy armor. But it's ToA, death is kind of a risk on the table, and why not explore? :smallcool: I'd be tempted to run a Wizard, possibly without Mage Armor, and see how far I can go?

For ASI I'd probably take Toughness feat for giggles. Sorta like the idea of an HP heavy illusionist. (My favorite part would be the challenge of selecting illusions that don't arouse suspicion, so high DCs would not be a major priority.) Especially in ToA where you might have to run from dinosaurs! :smallbiggrin:

[Farecry]

Wouldn’t that put int at an 8? Might make dc’s a little hard to keep

[Malifice]

Those are not terrible at all!

IMG we just switched to 3d6 in order (adjust any score of less than 6 to 6). Swap one stat of your choice with a 13 if desired.

On the plus side everyone gets a bonus feat at 1st level (no Vumans, just normal humans, but they're a solid choice with the 6 x +1s). So you can easily take a half feat at 1st, and a racial adjustment to start with a 16 in your Prime requisite.

Multiclassing also requires 15's in the new classes scores, and not 13's.

Much more old school feel.

Weirdly the game plays better with this method.

I cringe when I see the daily 'I rolled stats and got 18, 18 ,16, 17, 14, 12' etc. Literally every single time.

[opaopajr]

Wouldn’t that put int at an 8? Might make dc’s a little hard to keep

Why keep an illusion when you are playing with someone's (thing's) expectations for just long enough. :smallcool:

That and you got STR 14, which is hilarious for an illusionist. :smalltongue: Thwak! Nope, the jungle vine was actually a quarterstaff, nyah, nyah, nyah! Woop, woop, woop... :smalleek:
/runs through the jungle chased by dinosaurs.

[Farecry]

Kek Plus characters

[hymer]

@ HMS: White lancer has already answered, but I'll just go through your questions quickly:


Would a multi class Druid 3 /barb 1 work? Raging bear!
There's no reason to think it wouldn't, but in the end your DM rules these things. S/he may decide that certain shapes aren't physically capable of barbarian rage.


Would a paladin 1 dip work? Smiting bear!
2 levels for smite, and harsh stat requirements. Again, it ought to work, but your DM may say no.


Do I get to smite powered with druid spells?
There is errata out to make it clear that as multiclass paladin/spellcaster you can power smites with your spell slots.


It says I can choose to meld equipment or wear it during wild shape. Is there a way to have an armored bear?
The immeduiate thought would be to have a harness made, and ahve a friend put it on you after you've wild shaped. You still need to deal with the metal armour restriction.


I suppose my con score will vary, is it worth it to dump con, and Dex?
Very probably not. If you play in a very narrow window of levels, it may be possible to rely very heavily on wild shapes for combat, but you probably won't.


Can I flurry of blows?
Ask your DM (and mind the stat requirements for multiclassing to monk).


Can I use combat feats like mage Slayer, sentinel, tavern brawler etc etc?
I'd say yes to all of those, but ask your DM.


How should I keep track of my forms when I play on Roll 20?
Never played there, so I can't help with that.


If my stats are fine, would it be worth while to skip normal human?
Could work. It's all a matter of degrees.


Would half orc Savage attack work with wild shape?
It should, but again it's a question for your DM.


Does my wisdom even matter for wild shape?
Not directly, no. But it's very unlikely you will be able to rely entirely on wild shapes for combat.

The ninth post in my guide deals with multiclassing, and has links to some of the errata and rulings about wild shape interactions with other classes and with various races, so you may want to take a look there.

[DanyBallon]

With those stats, I would be tempted to try an hih elve bladesigner wielding a longsword.
Put the 7 in Dex, and 17 in Int, 5 in Cha

Something along these line
STR 12
DEX 9
CON 13
INT 18
WIS 11
CHA 5


And you can play it as a selfish high elf way too proud of being part of the elite.

The AC boost from bladesinging will partly fix his natural low AC.

That guy is still a ranged caster, but can hold his own for a fee minutes in close combat, and show off at the same time.

That’s what I would try just for the fun of roleplaying such a character.

edit:
To expand on this character, he could be high born (noble background), and got a military position from his title. Ends up being a really good strategist, but may have a too big self-estime and lacking the wisdom to consider that other can have good idea as well (explaining in part is low charisma).

[HMS Invincible]

I've got a partial character made up.
Half-orc Barb 2/Druid 2 Circle of the moon.
13 STR
12 DEX
14 CON
7 INT
17 WIS
5 CHA
I was debating between this, or variant human for the feat, human for the boost to all stats, and a dwarf for extra hp. By going barb first, I'll probably have hp in the 30s. Thoughts?

[Citan]

I've got a partial character made up.
Half-orc Barb 2/Druid 2 Circle of the moon.
13 STR
12 DEX
14 CON
7 INT
17 WIS
5 CHA
I was debating between this, or variant human for the feat, human for the boost to all stats, and a dwarf for extra hp. By going barb first, I'll probably have hp in the 30s. Thoughts?
Hi!
I'd go Normal Human, start with Druid and pick Resilient: Constitution first chance I get later, because this allows you to maximize your stat allocation (especially mental ones, which you keep with Wild Shape), freeing your mind for feats later.

But honestly all are functional choices.

[borg286]

At the end of the first post I have a list of good options for various high rolls. http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?494873-Why-and-when-you-should-roll-instead-of-buy-points

Copying the relevant section here

17+, and ok rest
Barbarian (Goliath can make up for low con and thus HP)
Fighter (Goliath can make up for low con and thus HP)
Dex Rogue (ranged)
Wizard (Use elemental energy to reduce heavy damage concentration breakers, and go bladesinger for +int to AC)
Enlightened Mystic
Lore Bard (Get inspiring leader to get the most out of high Cha)
Cleric (Hill Dwarf for Heavy armor w/o penalty. Tempest for blaster, nature to get Shillelagh for WIS attacks)
Druid

[HMS Invincible]

Hi!
I'd go Normal Human, start with Druid and pick Resilient: Constitution first chance I get later, because this allows you to maximize your stat allocation (especially mental ones, which you keep with Wild Shape), freeing your mind for feats later.

But honestly all are functional choices.
Are you suggesting druid as level one, and going for 5 Dex, and 7 con? The guides said that's a bad idea due to my limited wild shape.

Thanks for the link, I wish I saw it earlier, it would have made my life easier (I won't be getting those few hours back). Goliath is a good idea. There extra skill and powerful build is tempting in wild shape form, but otherwise, it's similar to orc. Too bad I'm not going grappler (which most forms are bad at since multi attack interferes with it).

[Citan]

Are you suggesting druid as level one, and going for 5 Dex, and 7 con? The guides said that's a bad idea due to my limited wild shape.

Thanks for the link, I wish I saw it earlier, it would have made my life easier (I won't be getting those few hours back). Goliath is a good idea. There extra skill and powerful build is tempting in wild shape form, but otherwise, it's similar to orc. Too bad I'm not going grappler (which most forms are bad at since multi attack interferes with it).
Well, starting as a Barbarian is certainly vreat : you would get 14 starting hp instead of 10 and Constitution proficiency directly. My main gripe with this paired with Normal Human is though that...
- you now have an odd Constitution score and few half feat choices that are useful since you already have good concentration.
- you still definitely want a good Wisdom save not too late because even on a caster many wis effects can end as devastating for the party.

With that said on second thought it may also open interesting choices in the following... For example you may bump both CON and WIS at level 4 then grab Resilient : WIS at 8.

Sooo. Yeah if you are worried about HP or waiting quite some time before you get your first ASI to spend on Resilient : Constitution start Barbarian. : )
Although the fact that you can use Wild Shape as a sort of THP makes that extra starting hp less relevant imo.

The important thing is to get decent Concentration saves as early as possible unless you really see your character as a raging beast that uses slots mainly on self heal or instant spells...

[HMS Invincible]

Couple things, I'm currently going Barb 1/then Druid 3, and I chose half orc. That leaves me with 14 con. I'm debating between 12 dex and 7 Dex. A gives me 15 ac in caster form ( 1 hour per wild shape per short rest). Unfortunately that leaves me dumb as a rock. Alternately, I dump Dex and I get 11 ac in caster form, but I'll have 12 int.
I'm level 4, what are the rules about magic items I can get with a new character? Aka, are there any cheap common magic items that work well with wild shape?

[FabulousFizban]

strength based orc rogue! 5 cha 7 int. be a pure thug - a ruthless brute of a man whose only tool for problem solving is violence!

put that 13 into dex and go barb 1/rogue 3

17(19)
13
12(13)
7
11
5

actually i think i might stat up and play this character

stick to rogue and take heavily armored at level 5. at level 6 you have an 18 ac, take 1/4 damage from physical attacks, and deal 5d6+7! HULK SMASH!