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Elder_Basilisk
2018-02-22, 11:00 AM
In a Pathfinder core rules plus cavalier game, I got an incredible series of rolls.

16, 15, 15, 15, 14, 13

I can arrange them in any order.

So what should I do with them. I'm inclined towards a build that isn't just single classed spellcaster though if there is an unusual spellcaster concept like polymorph focused wizard that is hard to pull off with less ridiculous stats I'd be open to that. I was leaning a little toward paladin/monk (2-4 lvls of monk for evasion, bonus feats, saves, etc) but as I was doing this post I realized that the stat array would be good for Eldritch knight too (probably fighter/wizard but pal sorcerer would work too).

Eldariel
2018-02-22, 11:43 AM
Polymorph Wizard could indeed use all those stats to great effect. It might also be a lot of fun. However, it would benefit more from two extremely high stats rather than high stats all around. Wildshape Druid would be similar, definitely an option to consider. Wild Empathy and co. even use Cha (as does Charm Person and Planar Binding for Wiz).

Archer Cleric is a good option: normally somewhat held back by using all stats but Int (and a Cleric does want skillpoints too), something like a Cleric Archer with those stats could be very interesting. Alternatively a Cleric AOO build. That would actually use all 6 stats (Dex for Combat Reflexes, Int for Combat Expertise).

I can't think of many good multidip options due to the PF paradigm where class features actually have scaling; with those sources you already outlined the best option.

Biffoniacus_Furiou
2018-02-22, 12:05 PM
I'd go with a Frostbite Magus build, get Enforcer and put max ranks in Intimidate. Put your lowest stat on Wis, look for a race with a Wis penalty and/or an Intimidate bonus and/or a decent Magus favored class bonus.

Elder_Basilisk
2018-02-22, 12:34 PM
I like frostbit magus builds but it's not an option since this is a core game with cavalier as the only noncore option.

Eldariel
2018-02-22, 02:24 PM
Hm, actually, yeah, you could pull the Wizard Gish off pretty well (another archetype that often suffers of MAD). That can use the Polymorph line just fine as well. In Core I'd recommend:

Ranger 1/Wizard 5/Eldritch Knight 10 ->

Ranger gives you access to Ranger Wands, which allows you to also make use of your Wis. It also gives you a great skill list, lots of skill points (skills are something all-around good stats really highlight), some cute class features, martial weapon proficiencies (for Eldritch Knight), two good saves and favored enemy as a bonus. I definitely think it's the best of the martial options. You can also dip Ranger 2 for Rapid Shot without prereqs later allowing you to double as a potent archer without wasting feats on PBS/PRShot.

Then you just profit of Wizard buffs, Telekinesis + BAB, Power Attack + multiattack forms, True Strike + Lance Power Attack charges, etc. You only fall 3 BAB behind, get very good saves and lose two levels of casting. All things considered, it's not terrible. Arcane Archer is also kinda interesting as a dip in an Imbue Arrow-focused build but that's a bit further down the totem pole far as efficiency goes and if you're not starting on high levels, it's really slow to get going.


There are also Sorc Dragon Disciple options.

EDIT: Actually, Barbarian can give a Ranger a decent run for its money in PF as the base for Eldritch Knight. Turn into something big, then Rage and rip faces off. Fast Movement is pretty cool for positioning and in general, and it doesn't have a horrible skill list. You lose out on the Wands but most of the real money Wands are out of Core anyways. In that sense, it's quite okay as a trade-off.

Elder_Basilisk
2018-02-22, 03:06 PM
So core, ranger 1/wizard 6/Eldritch knight 10 /arcane Archer 3 for 17 BAB and 17 lvl spellcasting.

Or barb/all the same

I think cavalier might be an interesting base for the build--especially if you could take archetypes and lose the teamwork feats for real feats. But not in core I guess. Then again, having the mount and challenge might actually be good in the early levels when the build is at it's weakest.

Uncle Pine
2018-02-22, 03:41 PM
Make a Commoner and take ranks in Handle Animals, Profession (farmer) and Ride. If you can afford to, a few ranks in Knowledge (the planes) won't hurt.
Buy an adamantine cursed -2 sword and a bear. And a custom item of +whatever-you-can-afford bonus to Profession (farmer), if possible and if you have some spare coins*.
Give your bear feats such as Bodyguard (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/combat-feats/bodyguard-combat), In Harm's Way (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/combat-feats/in-harm-s-way-combat) and similar**.
Grab the Mounted Combat (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/combat-feats/mounted-combat-combat-final/) and Master Craftsman (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/general-feats/master-craftsman-final/) (farmer) feat.
Talk with an accent.

Final result: you're a kulak who rides a giant bear in battle. If you're attacked, the bear can block an attack as an immediate action and you can in turn negate that attack as an immediate action with a Ride check. More importantly, you can dig your way out of anything that isn't an adamantine fortress and craft CG candles of invocation out of pears, peas, peat and tangerines during your downtime***.


*You should at least be able to acquire the customary +2 competence item for your Profession (farmer). Maybe a masterwork hoe?
**I don't usually play Pathfinder, so you'll probably know better than me about PF options. This is the character I built for a game at the table of a friend of a friend and it was created so that it could be as effective as possible while requiring me to learn the least possible amount of rules about PF: riding, crafting and a couple feats.
***The base DC to craft a candle of invocation is 22. However, since in PF you can ignore any of the prerequisites necessary to craft a magic item (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic-items#TOC-Magic-Item-Creation) (bar the required item creation feat, which we ignore thanks to Master Craftsman) for a measly +5 bonus to the DC for each unmet requirement, you can craft one with a DC 32 if you ignore the caster level and gate requirements. The DC is increased to 37 if you're not CG. Boost Profession (farmer) high enough and you get infinite wishes for 4,200 gp on top of a wonderful chassis of an angry illiterate warrior of the people. Wish for a better world for all the other Commoners.

Eldariel
2018-02-22, 04:10 PM
So core, ranger 1/wizard 6/Eldritch knight 10 /arcane Archer 3 for 17 BAB and 17 lvl spellcasting.

Or barb/all the same

I think cavalier might be an interesting base for the build--especially if you could take archetypes and lose the teamwork feats for real feats. But not in core I guess. Then again, having the mount and challenge might actually be good in the early levels when the build is at it's weakest.

Mhm, yeah, Cavalier isn't all that bad either though the heavy armor being wasted kinda sucks. I do think Barb is the best for the early game. Huge HD, Rage with a reasonable number of rounds, martial weapons, fast movement (not as fast as a mount though, granted). Ranger has the CLW Wands and I'm a sucker for broad skill lists with a lot of skill points. Presumably someone else in the party can use the Wands anyways (but lacking Infernal Healing, it's actually a relevant consideration). I'm also not quite sure if AA is worth it; if going to 20 I might go Ranger 2/Wiz 8/EK 10 for 16/17 saving a lot of feats and netting Rapid Shot, though AA3 is pretty useful with Imbue Arrow firing AMFs and company. Depends on whether you go switch-hitter or focus on either-or, honestly. Switch-hitter might not be able to spare the feats for AA.

Elder_Basilisk
2018-02-22, 04:38 PM
How about paladin/monk?

My tentative stab at that is strength primary, start Pal 2 then go monk 2, pal 4, monk 4 then pal the rest of the way.

Monk can give combat reflexes and improved grapple. That lets me wield a Reach weapon for AoOs and two handed power attack damage while retaining.

Grappling gives a useful option for screwing with enemy casters or two-handed weapon wielders, taking captives, and generally being a nuisance.

If I run with mage armor from a friendly caster (until high levels where bracers of armor are a possibility), I can also use flurry and ki points to maximize burst damage from smite evil but even if mage armor is not an option and I wear light armor (probably mithral breastplate or celestial armor), +4 Dodge to AC as a swift action can make a difference.

I'm not sure if there are other dips I should look at; it seems like the lack of good prestige classes in core means that going to high level in a base class is desirable. And there's also no easy way to get mettle or a Pathfinder equivalent ability without lots of Inquisitor levels which don't really work with the concept and aren't available anyway.

Calthropstu
2018-02-22, 05:40 PM
If you have great rolls, I suggest adding sweet butter. If they're Italian, i would suggest olive oil though.

Eldariel
2018-02-23, 05:22 AM
How about paladin/monk?

My tentative stab at that is strength primary, start Pal 2 then go monk 2, pal 4, monk 4 then pal the rest of the way.

Monk can give combat reflexes and improved grapple. That lets me wield a Reach weapon for AoOs and two handed power attack damage while retaining.

Grappling gives a useful option for screwing with enemy casters or two-handed weapon wielders, taking captives, and generally being a nuisance.

If I run with mage armor from a friendly caster (until high levels where bracers of armor are a possibility), I can also use flurry and ki points to maximize burst damage from smite evil but even if mage armor is not an option and I wear light armor (probably mithral breastplate or celestial armor), +4 Dodge to AC as a swift action can make a difference.

I'm not sure if there are other dips I should look at; it seems like the lack of good prestige classes in core means that going to high level in a base class is desirable. And there's also no easy way to get mettle or a Pathfinder equivalent ability without lots of Inquisitor levels which don't really work with the concept and aren't available anyway.

It might be reasonable. I'm not sure it compares favourably to a single-classed Paladin, but getting the Monk UA strikes to threaten immediate vicinity and some maneuvers can be a nice bonus. That said, CMD is quite high on average so it would behoove maximizing CMB to make it reliable enough. High level Paladin spells are pretty good though (Holy Sword comes to mind), and this postpones them a lot to the point of giving them up. There isn't much to say here; it's not the be-all end-all build, but it would probably be decent, at least for most of its career. PRCs of note don't really exist as you noted. Horizon Walker is the only one that really does much for martials and Pally spells are probably better.

Much depends also on how much you expect to have to do for the party. A casterish character obviously provides the opportunity to step up your game and make up for party deficiencies if need be, but if there's no need, that's of course all good.