Would you allow this hodgepodge class as your table?

[tedcahill2]

Ranger but with all of the City Scape ACF's, Distracting Shot ACF, Spell Reflection ACF, basically want to remove anything nature related and add in any spell disruption abilities I can.

There's a UA paladin variant that trades lay on hands, turn undead, and remove disease for favored enemy, I would to that in reverse trading favored enemy for lay on hands, turn undead, and remove disease. I would then ACF remove disease to remove curse, and turn undead to divine counter spell.

[Falontani]

I am.. unsure. I dont feel comfortable allowing favored enemy to be transferred for those three. Turn undead makes no thematic sense on a ranger, nor does lay on hands. While I could see the reverse being true for a paladin. Even if your trading those away immediately I dont think I would allow this at my table.

[tedcahill2]

I am.. unsure. I dont feel comfortable allowing favored enemy to be transferred for those three. Turn undead makes no thematic sense on a ranger, nor does lay on hands. While I could see the reverse being true for a paladin. Even if your trading those away immediately I dont think I would allow this at my table.

Well... thematically she's not a ranger. But there's no single class that fits the thematic I'm going for, which is a curse breaker. Sort of the opposite of a hexblade. Where the hexblade is dark and uses arcane magic and curses, she uses divine magic and breaks curses.

Paladin is the most logical option but smite, mount, heavy armor/shields, offer nothing to the way I want to play her.

Also, from a balance stand point, how can those paladin abilities be worth favored enemy when going from ranger to paladin, but not paladin to ranger?

[Mike Miller]

You probably want to explain this to your DM.

Have this same conversation with your DM to find out if it is acceptable instead of trying to get random internet opinions as an argument for your character.

[tedcahill2]

You probably want to explain this to your DM.

Have this same conversation with your DM to find out if it is acceptable instead of trying to get random internet opinions as an argument for your character.

The DM will usually trust me, cause I don't play abusive or really strong characters. I'm looking for feedback to see if I'm missing something massively exploitable.

[Falontani]

Also, from a balance stand point, how can those paladin abilities be worth favored enemy when going from ranger to paladin, but not paladin to ranger?

Because I dont think it is. Favored enemy is not worth the losses that paladins get IMO. In the past there have always been ACF that trade away more powerful abilities for weaker more thematic ones. The best way for me to showcase that would be with Druid Avenger where they lose wild shape for a couple of decent but nowhere comparable abilities

[Da Beast]

Probably not as the table, but maybe at my table :tongue:


The DM will usually trust me, cause I don't play abusive or really strong characters. I'm looking for feedback to see if I'm missing something massively exploitable.

I think the real question is how strong do the other characters at your table tend to be? If you have people playing strong full casters than I can't imagine this would be a problem.

[Grod_The_Giant]

It's not very legal to chain ACFs like that, I don't think, but the end result is fine, so <shrug>. If your DM won't go for it, I'd suggest grabbing Arcane Hunter instead to keep the thematics in line.

[Kelb_Panthera]

As long as I wasn't concerned you were trying to munchkin something out of it, probably.

[tedcahill2]

It's not very legal to chain ACFs like that, I don't think, but the end result is fine, so <shrug>. If your DM won't go for it, I'd suggest grabbing Arcane Hunter instead to keep the thematics in line.

What is this arcane Hunter you speak of?

[Crake]

Well... thematically she's not a ranger. But there's no single class that fits the thematic I'm going for, which is a curse breaker. Sort of the opposite of a hexblade. Where the hexblade is dark and uses arcane magic and curses, she uses divine magic and breaks curses.

Paladin is the most logical option but smite, mount, heavy armor/shields, offer nothing to the way I want to play her.

Also, from a balance stand point, how can those paladin abilities be worth favored enemy when going from ranger to paladin, but not paladin to ranger?

There's literally a cursebreaker ACF for paladin. Admittedly all it does is trade the remove disease X/Week for remove curse X/week, but im sure you can stack that ontop of an A-game paladin for an effective character.

[gorfnab]

What is this arcane Hunter you speak of?
It's a Ranger ACF from Complete Mage (p. 32). It's a Favored Enemy option that makes arcane casters a Favored Enemy as opposed to the standard race/monster options.


Ranger but with all of the City Scape ACF's, Distracting Shot ACF, Spell Reflection ACF, basically want to remove anything nature related and add in any spell disruption abilities I can.


Crowd-Walker (CS) - trades for Woodland Stride
Hidden Stalker (CS) - trades for Camouflage and Hide in Plain Sight
Rival Organization (CS) - trades for Favored Enemy - Favored Enemy is usually the better option
Skilled City-Dweller (CS) - trades out some skills
Urban Companion (CS) - trades for Animal Companion
Urban Tracker (CS) - trades for Track - I would personally go with Trap Expert (DS) instead
Voice of the City (CS) - trades for Wild Empathy
Distracting Attack - trades for Animal Companion
Spell Reflection - trades for Evasion

The only issue I see is that you have to choose between Urban Companion and Distracting Attack. I'm guessing by your post you're going with Distracting Attack. Otherwise your ACF trade outs line up, nothing being traded for something else that has already been traded.



There's a UA paladin variant that trades lay on hands, turn undead, and remove disease for favored enemy, I would to that in reverse trading favored enemy for lay on hands, turn undead, and remove disease. I would then ACF remove disease to remove curse, and turn undead to divine counter spell.
Now this is where the issue of ACF chaining comes in. Would this chain of ACFs be off balance with the rest of the group? In all of my years of playing and DM-ing I have seen many builds using many different ACFs and classes. To me, classes are only a meta-concept. They do not define the way the character acts or behaves, only how they function. What must be considered is balance within one's group. Would these ACF chain break the game balance in some way? Would they cause this character to far out-shine the rest of the group members? The character you're building with these chained ACFs would actually make for a decent mage-hunter if that's what you're going for. At this point it would be up to you and the DM whether or not to allow this.
Here is a quote by Person_Man from an earlier thread that basically echos how I feel about ACF chaining. ACF chaining (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?238842-ACF-chaining)

The more time you spend playing or DMing, the more comfortable you become with alternative class features, 3rd party material, and homebrew. Words do not become magically better because they're published in a core class and not an alternate class ability, or even in a book as opposed to a forum. There is no such thing as balance, unless it is created by the players in your group through consensus.
Though it's an archived thread, initially a re-posting from the wizards boards, the Variant Class Feature Chaining (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/archive/index.php/t-443076.html) thread can show you some of the interesting possibilities available from chaining acfs and other variants.

[ComaVision]

I'd be fine with it.

I don't think your ACF chaining is RAW-legal but I'm more willing to bend rules for thematic pursuits.

[Alabenson]

Personally, I wouldn't have any particular issue with allowing this as a DM. ACF chaining isn't generally something that I'd be inclined to object to unless there's an issue with the ACF itself, and Ranger isn't exactly an overpowered class to begin with.

[ExLibrisMortis]

I'd be fine with it.

I don't think your ACF chaining is RAW-legal but I'm more willing to bend rules for thematic pursuits.
This, basically.

I don't think your character would be a particularly effective curse breaker, though. For a curse breaker, I'd suggest something along the lines of ranger 1/hexblade 2/cleric 2/prestige paladin 3 with the Inquisition domain, Divine Defiance, Practiced Spellcaster, and Nemesis, and the Arcane Hunter ACF bolted onto prestige paladin as well as ranger (using the UA ACF that trades Smite for Favoured Enemy) to get +4 FE bonus in only two levels. ACF chaining, but the returns are a lot better.

[tedcahill2]

This, basically.

I don't think your character would be a particularly effective curse breaker, though. For a curse breaker, I'd suggest something along the lines of ranger 1/hexblade 2/cleric 2/prestige paladin 3 with the Inquisition domain, Divine Defiance, Practiced Spellcaster, and Nemesis, and the Arcane Hunter ACF bolted onto prestige paladin as well as ranger (using the UA ACF that trades Smite for Favoured Enemy) to get +4 FE bonus in only two levels. ACF chaining, but the returns are a lot better.

This is exactly why I prefer to homebrew, or stitch together, a single class that does what I want it to do.

This multiclassing is fine for higher level games, but it feels really weird to work through those classes from level 1. I'm the kind of person that searches for in-game justifications on how my ranger just picked up some cleric levels.

[ExLibrisMortis]

This multiclassing is fine for higher level games, but it feels really weird to work through those classes from level 1. I'm the kind of person that searches for in-game justifications on how my ranger just picked up some cleric levels.
Ranger into cleric is fairly easy if you go with the Inquisitor theme: you find bad guys and, uh, cleric them (with magic cleric thingumajigs). I never have trouble explaining class transitions (but then I have a flexible view of class fluff). I do otherwise agree with your point. Some concepts are hard to represent with only two levels, let alone just the one.

[Doctor Awkward]

Ranger but with all of the City Scape ACF's, Distracting Shot ACF, Spell Reflection ACF, basically want to remove anything nature related and add in any spell disruption abilities I can.

Sure. Sounds neat.
Maybe a mercenary who's parents or sibling were killed by a Thayan slaver, and he holds a special hatred for them ever since.
A lot of good roleplaying opportunities there.



There's a UA paladin variant that trades lay on hands, turn undead, and remove disease for favored enemy, I would to that in reverse trading favored enemy for lay on hands, turn undead, and remove disease. I would then ACF remove disease to remove curse, and turn undead to divine counter spell.

...uh...
I don't think Unearthed Arcana variants work like that.

And as a DM I doubt I'd house-rule it that way. I'd probably just tell you to make do with the spell disruption already available to you. That or multiclass to paladin.