When you lose your spellbook...

[Thrasher92]

When you lose your spellbook, either because a DM targeted it, another player stole it, or you did something to cause its disappearance. How do you rule it?

I have always ruled it that, whatever spells you have prepared for that day, are the ones you have prepared forever, until you use another spellbook to prepare new spells. I'm sure some might say that a wizard can only use cantrips or whatever spells they have left until they get a new book but, I'm never willing to take it that far. For a higher level character that would completely cripple them.

If your 10th level wizard had 15 spells prepared for Day 1, and he casts 5 spells and then loses his spellbook on day 1. To me, on Day 2 he would have the original 15 spells that he prepared on Day 1 still available to cast, but wouldn't be able to switch anything out from his original spellbook.

How would you rule it?

[Blood of Gaea]

You can change your list of prepared spells when
you finish a long rest. Preparing a new list of wizard
spells requires time spent studying your spellbook and
memorizing the incantations and gestures you must
make to cast the spell: at least 1 minute per spelllevel
for each spell on your list.
Straight from the PHB, it clearly calls out that you can change your list, but you don't have to. So you keep the spells you currently have prepared.

[LeonBH]

The Wizard will always have their prepared spells prepared, but cannot change them.

When they get a new spellbook, they can rewrite all their prepared spells into it again, paying the gold and time to do each spell.

[holywhippet]

Of course you also lose the ability to ritual cast any ritual spells you had in your spellbook.

[LeonBH]

Of course you also lose the ability to ritual cast any ritual spells you had in your spellbook.

Well, you lose a bunch of abilities as a Wizard, without a spellbook.

They cannot scribe new spells upon leveling up. They cannot regain spell slots on a short rest from Arcane Recovery. They cannot use Spell Mastery or Signature Spell (upon leveling up to the appropriate levels). And as you said, they cannot cast rituals.

[DeTess]

Well, you lose a bunch of abilities as a Wizard, without a spellbook.

They cannot scribe new spells upon leveling up. They cannot regain spell slots on a short rest from Arcane Recovery. They cannot use Spell Mastery or Signature Spell (upon leveling up to the appropriate levels). And as you said, they cannot cast rituals.

Which is probably a good reason to not target a wizard's spellbook with the intent of permanently taking it away, as it seems to be on par (or worse then) cutting of an arm from someone with a martial class without providing (accessible) access to regeneration magic.

[LeonBH]

Which is probably a good reason to not target a wizard's spellbook with the intent of permanently taking it away, as it seems to be on par (or worse then) cutting of an arm from someone with a martial class without providing (accessible) access to regeneration magic.

I dunno, methinks if a Wizard doesn't scribe a backup spellbook, they had it coming. Their spellbook is the most logical thing to target, if you were their enemy.

They can get any spellbook as a replacement, anyway. Just buy a new, blank one for 50g and they regain all those abilities.

[DeTess]

I dunno, methinks if a Wizard doesn't scribe a backup spellbook, they had it coming. Their spellbook is the most logical thing to target, if you were their enemy.

They can get any spellbook as a replacement, anyway. Just buy a new, blank one for 50g and they regain all those abilities.

Well, let's take a look to see if that's reasonable. A fifth level wizard would likely know 4 first level spells, 4 second level spells and 3rd level spells just from leveling. If they wanted to scribe a back-up that would cost them 50+4*50+4*100+2*150=950 GP, or around the price of two uncommon magic items or one cheap rare. That is probably not impossible to do in most campaigns, but it would take a significant bite out of the wizard's resources.

Personally, I don't think this is something that is reasonable to expect of the wizard, but I can also understand that there might be some campaigns with a more dark souls like mentality for which it is more reasonable. I definitely think that the players in question should be informed before hand of the possibility of this happening ("Hey guys, this is going to be a super gritty and tough campaign, so wizards should definitely backup their spellbooks, clerics should make sure to remain in the good graces of their god(or they'll instantly lose their power), paladins should stick to the letter of their oaths(or they'll instantly lose their power) and fighters probably should have a potion of regeneration handy for when they lose a limb").

[LeonBH]

Well, let's take a look to see if that's reasonable. A fifth level wizard would likely know 4 first level spells, 4 second level spells and 3rd level spells just from leveling. If they wanted to scribe a back-up that would cost them 50+4*50+4*100+2*150=950 GP, or around the price of two uncommon magic items or one cheap rare. That is probably not impossible to do in most campaigns, but it would take a significant bite out of the wizard's resources.

Personally, I don't think this is something that is reasonable to expect of the wizard, but I can also understand that there might be some campaigns with a more dark souls like mentality for which it is more reasonable. I definitely think that the players in question should be informed before hand of the possibility of this happening ("Hey guys, this is going to be a super gritty and tough campaign, so wizards should definitely backup their spellbooks, clerics should make sure to remain in the good graces of their god, paladins should stick to the letter of their oaths and fighters probably should have a potion of regeneration handy for when they lose a limb").

Many campaigns have an issue of spending money. You eventually gather enough loot that 950gp is nothing (some spells require a thousand gold, after all).

I disagree that it's the same as a fighter losing a limb though. Wizards are still casters - they can still mop the floor with the Fighter, spellbook or no. Most of the Wizard abilities that require a spellbook require time, happening over short or long rests. They don't affect the Wizard's potency in the moment. Meanwhile, a Fighter without one limb either cannot run, or cannot use two-handed weapons.

But yeah, I do like the "harder" campaigns. I enjoy employing tactics.

[DivisibleByZero]

You can change your list of prepared spells when
you finish a long rest. Preparing a new list of wizard
spells requires time spent studying your spellbook and
memorizing the incantations and gestures you must
make to cast the spell: at least 1 minute per spell level
for each spell on your list.
Straight from the PHB, it clearly calls out that you can change your list, but you don't have to. So you keep the spells you currently have prepared.

Straight from the PHB, it says you require your spellbook to change them.


I have always ruled it that, whatever spells you have prepared for that day, are the ones you have prepared forever, until you use another spellbook to prepare new spells.

This is the way it's done.
Except you can't use someone else's spellbook. It has to be yours. If you lose yours, you have to make a new one, that is also yours, or you can't change your spells (unless teh DM waives that requirement).

You prepare the list of wizard spells that are available for you to cast. To do so. choose a number of wizard spells from your spellbook
<snip>
Copying a spell into your spellbook involves reproducing the basic form of the spell, then deciphering the unique system of notation used by the wizard who wrote it. You must practice the spell until you understand the sounds or gestures required, then transcribe it into your spellbook using your own notation.

Every caster uses slightly different methods to cast their spells. How I cast Fireball and how you cast Fireball will probably (but not certainly) be similar, but will certainly be at least slightly different.
That's why you have to "transcribe it into your spellbook using your own notation."
It has to be in your own notation to be in your book, and it has to be your book to prepare from it.
Any DM is free to waive any part of this, but those are the rules.

[Galactkaktus]

Well, let's take a look to see if that's reasonable. A fifth level wizard would likely know 4 first level spells, 4 second level spells and 3rd level spells just from leveling. If they wanted to scribe a back-up that would cost them 50+4*50+4*100+2*150=950 GP.

It's 10 gp per spell level and not 50 gp per spell level for copying one of your own spell. So it whould be 190gp and not 950gp plus the cost of the book.

[DivisibleByZero]

It's 10 gp per spell level and not 50 gp per spell level for copying one of your own spell. So it whould be 190gp and not 950gp plus the cost of the book.

Nope.
50

Copying a Spell into the Book.
When you find a wizard spell of 1st level or higher, you can add it to your spellbook if it is of a level for which you have spell slots and if you can spare the time to decipher and copy it.
Copying a spell into your spellbook involves reproducing the basic form of the spell, then deciphering the unique system of notation used by the wizard who wrote it. You must practice the spell until you understand the sounds or gestures required, then transcribe it into your spellbook using your own notation.
For each level of the spell, the process takes 2 hours and costs 50 gp. The cost represents material components you expend as you experiment with the spell to master it, as well as the fine inks you need to record it. Once you have spent this time and money, you can prepare the spell just like your other spells.

Obviously if these spells are some that you had in your own book previously, a reasonable DM could rule that it costs much less, in both time and money, because the experimentation process would be small or nil.
But the rules say 50.

Replacing the Book.
You can copy a spell from your own spellbook into another book— for example, if you want to make a backup copy of your spellbook. This is just like copying a new spell into your spellbook, but faster and easier, since you understand your own notation and already know how to cast the spell. You need spend only 1 hour and 10 gp for each level of the copied spell.

What you were referencing was about copying your spells from your own book into another, secondary/backup book. But you don't have your own book available to do so. These rules do not apply, unless the DM allows them to.
edit: I see that you guys were specifically talking about creating a backup, so ignore all that. :smallsmile:

[LeonBH]

It's 10 gp per spell level and not 50 gp per spell level for copying one of your own spell. So it whould be 190gp and not 950gp plus the cost of the book.

Good point. Sounds very reasonable at level 5 that way, actually.

[Millstone85]

What you were referencing was about copying your spells from your own book into another, secondary/backup book. But you don't have your own book available to do so. These rules do not apply, unless the DM allows them to.
edit: I see that you guys were specifically talking about creating a backup, so ignore all that. :smallsmile:Even then...

Replacing the Book.
You can copy a spell from your own spellbook into another book— for example, if you want to make a backup copy of your spellbook. This is just like copying a new spell into your spellbook, but faster and easier, since you understand your own notation and already know how to cast the spell. You need spend only 1 hour and 10 gp for each level of the copied spell.
If you lose your spellbook, you can use the same procedure to transcribe the spells you have prepared into a new spellbook. Filling out the remainder of your spellbook requires you to find new spells to do so, as normal. For this reason, many wizard keep backup spellbooks in a safe place.

What makes you think the PHB is referring to the 50 gp procedure, from the previous section of the Your Spellbook sidebar, rather than the 10 gp procedure it just described in the same section?

[DivisibleByZero]

Even then...

What makes you think the PHB is referring to the 50 gp procedure, from the previous section of the Your Spellbook sidebar, rather than the 10 gp procedure it just described in the same section?

The spells that you have prepared, sure. Not any of the other spells that you previously had in your book (unless the DM decides to be nice and give a discount).
But that's kind of irrelevant, when the thread is asking about changing spells. The spells that you already have prepared don't factor into it in that case.

[ChampionWiggles]

Many campaigns have an issue of spending money. You eventually gather enough loot that 950gp is nothing (some spells require a thousand gold, after all).

Depends on the DM. I had a DM who ran a campaign where by 5th level, I think we were barely around 500g. Most standard adventures give plenty of gold though.

[Sigreid]

Any wizard that doesn't create a backup or two of their spellbook as soon as they have the time and money is insane. Similarly, a fighter should invest in the best personal armory he can get, just in case...

[Willie the Duck]

Depends on the DM. I had a DM who ran a campaign where by 5th level, I think we were barely around 500g. Most standard adventures give plenty of gold though.

Sure, and in that campaign, the fighters too are feeling an economic pinch and probably don't have all the weapons and armor they would want, and people aren't treating horses as expendable and so forth.

[DeTess]

Even then...

Replacing the Book.
You can copy a spell from your own spellbook into another book— for example, if you want to make a backup copy of your spellbook. This is just like copying a new spell into your spellbook, but faster and easier, since you understand your own notation and already know how to cast the spell. You need spend only 1 hour and 10 gp for each level of the copied spell.
If you lose your spellbook, you can use the same procedure to transcribe the spells you have prepared into a new spellbook. Filling out the remainder of your spellbook requires you to find new spells to do so, as normal. For this reason, many wizard keep backup spellbooks in a safe place.

What makes you think the PHB is referring to the 50 gp procedure, from the previous section of the Your Spellbook sidebar, rather than the 10 gp procedure it just described in the same section?

Heh, I missed that. In that case keeping a spare is indeed quite affordable.