Snap Kick multiple times a round?

[Zaq]

Let's say you have the Snap Kick feat from ToB. It's pretty clear (by my interpretation of RAI of the "one or more melee weapons" clause, at least) that multiple attacks made at once (from a full attack or equivalent, for example) don't trigger separate Snap Kicks, because that would just be silly. But if you spend multiple separate actions in one round making attacks, do you get to make multiple Snap Kicks? Why or why not? (As an example, you might spend a standard action initiating a strike, then spend a swift action to teleport and trigger Sun School. You can also get a swift action attack from casting Quickened Snake's Swiftness or using Quickened Temporal Twist on yourself. Or even being more mundane, you might make a normal attack routine and then get an AoO off-turn.)

Also, using Snap Kick imposes a -2 on all attacks you make in the round; if you are able to trigger Snap Kick multiple times in one round, is that multiple penalties from the same source (i.e., the feat is the source of the penalty, so they don't stack), or multiple penalties from separate sources (i.e., each instance of Snap Kick is the source of the penalty, so they do stack)? If we assume that they do stack, since SK's penalty applies to "all attack rolls you make this round," do you have to know ahead of time how many SKs you'll be using in order to apply the appropriate penalty, or do the penalties not apply until you've declared each SK? (Or does it rewind time to apply a retroactive penalty to your earlier attacks, possibly making them miss, like a reverse Durkon (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0034.html)? That could even apply with just a single SK if you aren't sure if you want to use it, which may qualify as a dysfunction.)

[Falontani]

I would rule it the same way rapid shot is ruled for all intents and purposes.

[Zaq]

I would rule it the same way rapid shot is ruled for all intents and purposes.

That's a little problematic, though. Rapid Shot only works with a full attack, but part of what makes Snap Kick interesting (and what sort of justifies its higher-than-average prereqs) is that it explicitly works with attacks that aren't full attacks. In fact, the majority of the "gain an extra attack, but take a -2 penalty on all your attacks" abilities (Rapid Shot, Flurry of Blows, TWF, Eagle's Fury, and Whirling Frenzy, off the top of my head) work only with full attacks, but Snap Kick stands apart.

The reason that I need to ask this question at all is because Snap Kick is, by explicit design, different from the others.

[DEMON]

I would rule it the list of examples is actually an exhaustive list: it works for standard attacks, full attacks and strike maneuvers, allowing only one additional attack to apply to any of those.

[InterstellarPro]

I would check what others have already discussed on the topic:
http://www.giantitp.com/forums/archive/index.php/t-370720.html

[Doctor Awkward]

Also, using Snap Kick imposes a -2 on all attacks you make in the round; if you are able to trigger Snap Kick multiple times in one round, is that multiple penalties from the same source (i.e., the feat is the source of the penalty, so they don't stack), or multiple penalties from separate sources (i.e., each instance of Snap Kick is the source of the penalty, so they do stack)? If we assume that they do stack, since SK's penalty applies to "all attack rolls you make this round," do you have to know ahead of time how many SKs you'll be using in order to apply the appropriate penalty, or do the penalties not apply until you've declared each SK? (Or does it rewind time to apply a retroactive penalty to your earlier attacks, possibly making them miss, like a reverse Durkon (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0034.html)? That could even apply with just a single SK if you aren't sure if you want to use it, which may qualify as a dysfunction.)


I mean... if you want to get THAT technical with things...

...the feat doesn't tell you to apply a -2 penalty each time you take an extra attack with it. It is a binary effect. You either plan to make use of it during your round, and apply a -2 penalty to all attacks you make during that round, or you do not use it, in which case you do not get the penalty.

For instance, if you had an 8th level Factotum, who used Cunning Surge twice to get two extra standard actions, then moved next to an enemy and used all three of his standard actions to make a melee attack, and applied Snap Kick to each one. He would make a total of six attacks. Since he is using Snap Kick this round, each of those attacks would be at a -2 penalty.

[Snowbluff]

I mean... if you want to get THAT technical with things...

...the feat doesn't tell you to apply a -2 penalty each time you take an extra attack with it. It is a binary effect. You either plan to make use of it during your round, and apply a -2 penalty to all attacks you make during that round, or you do not use it, in which case you do not get the penalty.

For instance, if you had an 8th level Factotum, who used Cunning Surge twice to get two extra standard actions, then moved next to an enemy and used all three of his standard actions to make a melee attack, and applied Snap Kick to each one. He would make a total of six attacks. Since he is using Snap Kick this round, each of those attacks would be at a -2 penalty.
Further evidence to support this would be that bonuses and penalties can't stack, much in the same way you can't stack power attack. :p

[Necroticplague]

I agree with Tonymitsu. You're either using the feat, and thus taking attack roll penalties, or you aren't, and aren't. It's a binary affect, not something that can occur multiple times.