Zaq
2018-02-23, 12:57 PM
Let's start off with what I'm not looking for. I'm not looking for instances where a feat lets you bring way the hell more magic to bear than you otherwise might be able to (Persist Spell, crafting feats, etc.). I'm not looking for cases of "this feat lets you apply a different stat than normal, so if we assume the stat in question is obnoxiously high, the feat counts for the entire value of the stat" (Weapon Finesse, Tactile Trapsmith, etc.). I'm not looking for cases where a feat lets you bring in an arbitrarily high number of helpers to give bonuses based on how many bodies you can shove into a given space (Swarmfighting, Fell Conspiracy, Dark Speech to make a hivemind, etc.), at least not unless it's really clever and couldn't otherwise be done by a "nanobots" build. Basically, I don't want the answer to be "depends on how much you can game something else," whether that something else is a stat or a group of helpers or access to magic or whatever.
So what AM I talking about? I'm basically curious how big a bonus it's possible for a single feat (or, I guess, a directly related feat chain) to apply to given d20 roll. (Note that I'm not interested in damage rolls, even if you somehow finagle your way into using a d20 as an actual damage die.) Ideally I'd like this to be as direct a link as possible, which is why I threw in the caveat about feats that give you access to magic. As usual, I'm not planning on using this in any specific build or any actual game, but I find cleverness to be more interesting than shenanigans even when I don't have to get a live GM to approve it.
I've found a few feats that give a +10, which I suspect may be about as good as we're going to get:
Inquisitor (XPH) lets you expend psionic focus to get a +10 to a specific Sense Motive check.
Mental Leap (also XPH) lets you expend psionic focus to gain a +10 to a Jump check.
Dream of Instinct (Secrets of Sarlona) lets you expend your dreamtouched state to gain a +10 insight bonus to a given skill check or Will save. I think, based on the wording, that your dreamtouched state is technically still active while making the check in question, so if the roll in question is based off of one of the mental stats that the dreamtouched state boosts, the whole feat chain technically gives you a +11 to the roll we're talking about.
Dream of Insight (also Secrets of Sarlona) also lets you spend a use of dreamtouched state (but doesn't require you to be in it and end it, which is slightly different from Dream of Instinct; instead, you have to be asleep) to make a Knowledge check with a +10 insight bonus. (Side comment: Dream of Instinct, which also has lower prereqs than Dream of Insight, seems strictly superior unless you really need the ability to make untrained Knowledge checks for some reason, but hey, they're only literally right next to each other on the same page. It's not like we could have expected the devs to look at them and compare them to each other.)
Elemental Helmsman (Magic of Eberron) gives a +10 bonus to opposed CHA checks to control an elemental vessel if you're using an appropriate magic item, but it's only a +4 if you aren't using the right type of item.
Mighty Leaping (Savage Species) gives a +10 competence bonus on Jump checks. Interestingly, it has no cost, use limit, or activation action, but it does have rather intense prereqs.
Dragon Wings (Races of the Dragon) gives a +10 racial bonus on Jump checks.
What else is out there? I guess even if we can't match a +10 or +11, I'm interested in what feats might provide bigger bonuses than, say, the +4 offered by Combat Casting or Improved Initiative. +4 seems to be about the maximum that the devs were usually comfortable handing out as a feat, which is why it's interesting to track down exceptions. (Running with my "literally on the same page" deal, there are other dreamtouched feats that offer +5s in exchange for your dreamtouched state, though I'm hoping we can find even more than that.) I do notice that pretty much all of these have some kind of cost, which isn't entirely unreasonable or unexpected.
So let's lay this out as two questions: 1. What feats can, as directly as possible, apply a +5 or better (hopefully better) to a d20 roll? 2. How big a bonus can any such feat give, sans shenanigans?
I've found a handful of others in the +5 to +8 range:
Dallah Thaun's Luck (RotW) gives a +5 to a single saving throw 1/day at the cost of taking a -2 penalty on the rest of your saves that day.
Greater Power Penetration (XPH) technically gives a total of +8 on ML checks to defeat power resistance (at the cost of your focus), but that's technically a +4 that stacks with an earlier +4, so it's a little different than some of the others. Still, it's a big bonus to a single d20 roll.
Apostate (Elder Evils) gives a bonus equal to half your level to saves against divine spells. I guess this is technically a +10 bonus at level 20, but it feels weird to stick that in the same bin as the feats that can give a +10 by, like, level 1 or 3 or whatever. Similarly, Deformity (Madness) lets you add half your level to a single Will save, but unless you find a way to base your Will off of something that isn't WIS, the -4 WIS that the feat imposes means that this is not going to hit a net +10 pre-Epic.
Master's Will (Also Elder Evils) gives a 50/50 chance of giving a +8 bonus on one attack/save/skill check/ability check, but failure damages you.
As mentioned above, Dream of Strength and Dream of the Moment (SOS) can give a +5 insight to an attack roll, Fort save, or Ref save, depending on the feat, at the cost of your dreamtouched state.
Sailor's Balance (Stormwrack) gives a +5 competence bonus on Balance checks specifically made "on the deck or in the rigging of a ship."
Combat Stability (PHB2) gives a +8 bonus on checks to resist most combat maneuvers if you have at least three combat form feats. (This is likely intended to be only while in Combat Focus, but it doesn't actually say that.)
Sacred Healing (PHB2) gives a +5 bonus on Heal checks at the cost of a TU attempt.
Hawk's Vision (CAdv) gives a +8 bonus on Spot checks at the cost a a Wild Shape attempt. (Climb Like an Ape, from the same page in the same book, sorta also gives a +8 to Climb checks, but that seems to be a function of gaining a climb speed.)
Daredevil Athlete (CSc) gives a +5 competence to Balance, Climb, Escape Artist, Jump, Ride, Swim, or Tumble checks 3/day. No separate cost other than the use limit, and no prereqs, which I didn't expect.
Warning Shout (CSc) gives an ally a +5 morale bonus to a Reflex save at the cost of some Bardic Music uses, but it doesn't work on the person who took the feat.
Keen-Eared Scout (PHB2) gives a +5 on Listen checks specifically to pinpoint invisible creatures, but not on any other Listen checks.
Leap of the Heavens (PHB2) gives a +5 competence bonus to Jump checks with a 20' running start.
Cumbrous Fortitude/Reflexes/Will (Savage Species) give a +6 bonus on the save associated with the feat, but they all impose a nasty cost of some kind (staggered, prone/dazed, or shaken).
I'm sure that can't be all of them. What other feats that give unusually large bonuses are out there?
So what AM I talking about? I'm basically curious how big a bonus it's possible for a single feat (or, I guess, a directly related feat chain) to apply to given d20 roll. (Note that I'm not interested in damage rolls, even if you somehow finagle your way into using a d20 as an actual damage die.) Ideally I'd like this to be as direct a link as possible, which is why I threw in the caveat about feats that give you access to magic. As usual, I'm not planning on using this in any specific build or any actual game, but I find cleverness to be more interesting than shenanigans even when I don't have to get a live GM to approve it.
I've found a few feats that give a +10, which I suspect may be about as good as we're going to get:
Inquisitor (XPH) lets you expend psionic focus to get a +10 to a specific Sense Motive check.
Mental Leap (also XPH) lets you expend psionic focus to gain a +10 to a Jump check.
Dream of Instinct (Secrets of Sarlona) lets you expend your dreamtouched state to gain a +10 insight bonus to a given skill check or Will save. I think, based on the wording, that your dreamtouched state is technically still active while making the check in question, so if the roll in question is based off of one of the mental stats that the dreamtouched state boosts, the whole feat chain technically gives you a +11 to the roll we're talking about.
Dream of Insight (also Secrets of Sarlona) also lets you spend a use of dreamtouched state (but doesn't require you to be in it and end it, which is slightly different from Dream of Instinct; instead, you have to be asleep) to make a Knowledge check with a +10 insight bonus. (Side comment: Dream of Instinct, which also has lower prereqs than Dream of Insight, seems strictly superior unless you really need the ability to make untrained Knowledge checks for some reason, but hey, they're only literally right next to each other on the same page. It's not like we could have expected the devs to look at them and compare them to each other.)
Elemental Helmsman (Magic of Eberron) gives a +10 bonus to opposed CHA checks to control an elemental vessel if you're using an appropriate magic item, but it's only a +4 if you aren't using the right type of item.
Mighty Leaping (Savage Species) gives a +10 competence bonus on Jump checks. Interestingly, it has no cost, use limit, or activation action, but it does have rather intense prereqs.
Dragon Wings (Races of the Dragon) gives a +10 racial bonus on Jump checks.
What else is out there? I guess even if we can't match a +10 or +11, I'm interested in what feats might provide bigger bonuses than, say, the +4 offered by Combat Casting or Improved Initiative. +4 seems to be about the maximum that the devs were usually comfortable handing out as a feat, which is why it's interesting to track down exceptions. (Running with my "literally on the same page" deal, there are other dreamtouched feats that offer +5s in exchange for your dreamtouched state, though I'm hoping we can find even more than that.) I do notice that pretty much all of these have some kind of cost, which isn't entirely unreasonable or unexpected.
So let's lay this out as two questions: 1. What feats can, as directly as possible, apply a +5 or better (hopefully better) to a d20 roll? 2. How big a bonus can any such feat give, sans shenanigans?
I've found a handful of others in the +5 to +8 range:
Dallah Thaun's Luck (RotW) gives a +5 to a single saving throw 1/day at the cost of taking a -2 penalty on the rest of your saves that day.
Greater Power Penetration (XPH) technically gives a total of +8 on ML checks to defeat power resistance (at the cost of your focus), but that's technically a +4 that stacks with an earlier +4, so it's a little different than some of the others. Still, it's a big bonus to a single d20 roll.
Apostate (Elder Evils) gives a bonus equal to half your level to saves against divine spells. I guess this is technically a +10 bonus at level 20, but it feels weird to stick that in the same bin as the feats that can give a +10 by, like, level 1 or 3 or whatever. Similarly, Deformity (Madness) lets you add half your level to a single Will save, but unless you find a way to base your Will off of something that isn't WIS, the -4 WIS that the feat imposes means that this is not going to hit a net +10 pre-Epic.
Master's Will (Also Elder Evils) gives a 50/50 chance of giving a +8 bonus on one attack/save/skill check/ability check, but failure damages you.
As mentioned above, Dream of Strength and Dream of the Moment (SOS) can give a +5 insight to an attack roll, Fort save, or Ref save, depending on the feat, at the cost of your dreamtouched state.
Sailor's Balance (Stormwrack) gives a +5 competence bonus on Balance checks specifically made "on the deck or in the rigging of a ship."
Combat Stability (PHB2) gives a +8 bonus on checks to resist most combat maneuvers if you have at least three combat form feats. (This is likely intended to be only while in Combat Focus, but it doesn't actually say that.)
Sacred Healing (PHB2) gives a +5 bonus on Heal checks at the cost of a TU attempt.
Hawk's Vision (CAdv) gives a +8 bonus on Spot checks at the cost a a Wild Shape attempt. (Climb Like an Ape, from the same page in the same book, sorta also gives a +8 to Climb checks, but that seems to be a function of gaining a climb speed.)
Daredevil Athlete (CSc) gives a +5 competence to Balance, Climb, Escape Artist, Jump, Ride, Swim, or Tumble checks 3/day. No separate cost other than the use limit, and no prereqs, which I didn't expect.
Warning Shout (CSc) gives an ally a +5 morale bonus to a Reflex save at the cost of some Bardic Music uses, but it doesn't work on the person who took the feat.
Keen-Eared Scout (PHB2) gives a +5 on Listen checks specifically to pinpoint invisible creatures, but not on any other Listen checks.
Leap of the Heavens (PHB2) gives a +5 competence bonus to Jump checks with a 20' running start.
Cumbrous Fortitude/Reflexes/Will (Savage Species) give a +6 bonus on the save associated with the feat, but they all impose a nasty cost of some kind (staggered, prone/dazed, or shaken).
I'm sure that can't be all of them. What other feats that give unusually large bonuses are out there?