Reverse gish (core build)

[Kurald Galain]

The traditional core-only gish (i.e. fighter/wizard hybrid) build is probably Fighter 1 / Wizard 5 / Eldritch Knight. The problem with this is that it plays mostly as a wizard who just happens to have a decent BAB; the build lacks hit points and can't wear armor well.

So I figured on doing the opposite: use a pure combat class, and add a level of sorcerer (or maybe wizard/bard) for support. Primarily, this means I get to cast True Strike a bunch of times per day.

Is this viable? Are there other useful spells to watch out for? (the only other level-one with no somatics appears to be Feather Fall)

[SadisticFishing]

Well, if it's Core only, take Power Attack and use a two handed weapon, it's not bad, but only attacking once every two rounds is a tad weaker than you're probably looking for.

Remember, divine spells can be cast in armor, so if you want you could just play a cleric that uses combat buffs, and even then you can heal when necessary.

Another option is to just play the Eldritch knight, and use Mage Armor and Shield for armor... and that's a lot of armor.

Or buy the PHB2 and play a Duskblade :P

[DraPrime]

Or buy the PHB2 and play a Duskblade :P

That book has pretty much made the the need for a multiclassing gish null. Just be a duskblade. It's a great class.

[Kurald Galain]

That book has pretty much made the the need for a multiclassing gish null. Just be a duskblade. It's a great class.

I believe I mentioned core-only. If it were my choice, I would indeed play a duskblade, but the DM is picky about splatbooks.

[Crow]

I play a lot of gish-type characters and have had good results with a fighter-sorcerer. I started with sorcerer up to level 6, then just went straight fighter.

He used a longspear for the reach (since it is only a simple weapon), and picked up mage armor and shield for defense. Having access to to third level spells meant he could pick up most of the decent buffs in between. Power attack with a two-handed weapon (exploiting the True Strike synergy ensured a solid hit at the beginning of combat, and as a sorcerer, you could ready it again if you needed).

Yes, getting just one attack off isn't that great, but you can't full attack unless you wait for the enemy to come to you, or you only took a five foot step.

The thing to remember, is that a gish is a fighter first and a spellcaster second. Use your spells to compliment your fighting, and not the other way around.

[Shatenjager]

The time I tried it it didn't work too well. I was a sorcerer (1)/Ranger (5). My idea was to use many shot and true strike to get several arrows on one true strike. It didn't work so well as it became obvious most of the time that I would prefer to just shoot the enemy normally (with rapid shot) than to take a whole round to cast true strike. Still it could be fun, better if you can use the spell compendium, but still workable with core.

[Flawless]

Arcane magic and armour doesn't work well in core unless you are a bard. Maybe a bard/fighter until you qualify for eldritch knight. That way your BAB and hp won't suffer as much (bard got 3/4 and d6) and you'd still get decent spells plus some bardic abilities. Otherwise, somehow convince your DM to allow Abjurant Champion. It's exactly what you're looking for.

[Toliudar]

Paladin with a level or two of sorcerer works okay. It reduces MAD, allowing charisma to shine, and you can hand-pick a few spells that are either useful for long periods, so you have time to remove and replace the armor for casting, or are verbal-only (True Strike, Ventriloquism, and Feather Fall all have obvious uses for a melee-based character).

[Tengu]

So I figured on doing the opposite: use a pure combat class, and add a level of sorcerer (or maybe wizard/bard) for support. Primarily, this means I get to cast True Strike a bunch of times per day.


As Bears With Lasers pointed out in the past, not a good idea - spend two rounds in order to be guaranteed to hit once? Nah.

Now, in NWN it's a good tactic, since True Strike has simply a duration of one round there instead of working for your next attack, but we're not talking NWN here.

[RoboticSheeple]

But why really? If it's that important to have true strike ask your DM if you can buy a limited use per day item that grants true strike. Basically, why cherrypick if you don't have to?

[Crow]

True Strike is useful, especially for a gish when fighting an enemy where your chance of landing an attack may be very low (either high AC, or concealment). In these situations, it may be worthwhile to spend the 1 standard action to cast true strike, and then get an almost guaranteed hit the next round.

It's better than missing in both rounds.

[Deepblue706]

I'd suggest make your spellcasting class a wizard, so you can use Still Spell, so you can ignore spell failure. I wouldn't consider using True Strike as much as I'd go for lasting buffs, since they can be done at the start of a fight and continue to provide benefits.

Fighter 6 / Wizard 6 / Eldritch Knight 8 might be okay, as you'll have a BAB of 17, and a CL of 13 at level 20 (that's 7th level spells). The 6 Fighter levels give a solid base, but you'll certainly lose steam once you start going for Wizard, as spells will do little for you until you reach 2nd spell level. Because you'll have a decent spell-casting ability, you will eventually be able to grab Quickened Spell, which is a very nice feat for obvious reasons.

However, you could take the Bard route...

Fighter 6 / Bard 7 / Eldritch Knight 7 would get you 18 BAB, CL 13, and 5th level Bard spells.

But really, I don't see either of these paths being very good. Sure, if it fits your character concept, have fun. But, if you want swords and spells, I must strongly suggest you consider fighter 1/wizard 5/EK 10/arch mage 4 or something similar.

[kme]

The problem with Eldritch Knight is that it requires 5/6 levels in arcane class, so you will have problems going into melee at lower levels.Mainly because of lack of armor.But its not impossible.
True strike, blur, displacement, dimension door, all don't require somatic components.And you can take still spell(sure you will loose a spell level, but its still good, compare yourself with fighter who wouldn't be able to cast spells at all).Later you pick up some lesser rods of quicken and then you don't even loose actions.
You can also play without taking eldricth knight, just take a level or two in sorcerer class.Take true strike, ring of wizardry I, some lesser rods of quicken and you can be happy(you will also be able to use wands and scrolls of still spell)

List of some useful spells:
1.grease, shield, true strike, protection from evil, expeditious retreat, enlarge/reduce person
2.protection from arrows, resist energy,fog cloud, see invisibility, blur, mirror image, false life, alter self, bull strength, bears endurance, cats grace, spider climb
3.Protection from energy, heroism, wind wall, displacement, vampiric touch, blink, fly, haste, keen edge, arcane sight
4.stoneskin, dimension door, solid fog, fire shield, wall of fire/ice, invisibility greater, enervation, polymorph

And if you wish to use true strike you don't have to combine it just with power attack(power attack 3, combat expertise 3, fight defensivly= ok i get +6 to damage and +5 to AC =:smallbiggrin: )

With higher level spells you start stepping in wizards territory.And if you have them you will probably just cast spells instead of fighting.

Maybe you can convince the DM to let you enter the eldritch knight with just second or first level spells, but not getting improved caster level at levels 4 and 8 level(or some similar change to a class).

[Dr. Weasel]

This sort of gish isn't generally used because it really doesn't work. You're squandering a class level to get +20 to hit on three or four attacks a day (if you want to waste a round preparing it). Even when it does work, it supplements your strongest attack bonus, the one which should be hitting anyway.

Unless you spend levels in a caster class, you'll never cast anything "a bunch of times a day."

Going with Core rules and actually shooting for the class, though, I would take Sorcerer* 1/Paladin 2/Fighter 2/Dragon Disciple 10 (You'll probably want to talk to your DM about Reflavoring this class as the dragon-fanboy-ness of it is rather awful.)/Ranger 1/Fighter 4. This will lose both Spells (Ow) and Base Attack (Double Ow), but will net you some of the goodies you probably want. You won't be hitting as hard as a full Base Attack class, but your hit points will be pretty good, you'll get nifty abilities and your spellcasting at least gets some support.

*Sorcerer has to go first to get Knowlege (Arcana) as a maximize-able skill.

[valadil]

Can you use Unearthed Arcana? It might help if you convince your DM that it's slightly more RAW than a splatbook since much of it appears in the SRD.

If you can, I recommend Human Paragon. It's a 3 level class that gives 2 points BAB and 2 levels as a caster. So if you take wiz 1 and ftr 1, then 3 levels of this you'll qualify for spellsword at level 5. Take three levels of that (full BAB, 2 caster levels), to get 3rd level spells and qualify for eldritch knight. It's less arcane than the traditional EK progression, but it's a lot meatier and you end up dropping 4 spell levels, which is just right if you're looking to take a certain feat to catch up. Best of all, everything gives bonus feats.

This is definitely more of a fighter with spells than a caster who can tank though.

[CASTLEMIKE]

If your DM considers the D20 SRD core consider playing a Battle Sorcerer since you will have limited PRC options with core which gives you good Bab, D8, No ASF in light armor, a hand held martial weapon proficiency and slightly limited full spell casting (1 less known spell at each level and casting levels).

Instead of taking Dragon Disciple consider playing a Dragon Blooded +1 LA or Half Dragon +3 LA if using the LA Buy Down rules in the UA/D20 SRD and instead of knowing lots of low level spells you will know lots of spells from cantrips to level 9 at level 18+.

If you play a Aaisimar +1LA you are an outsider and qualified with martial weapons and easy to buy down down.

[The Mormegil]

Paladin 2/Sorceror 2/Fighter 4/Draconic Disciple 4
would qualify for EK?
If that's not the case, go wizard and take Still Spells. Best you can do, really.

But Core only is such a pain!

[Dr. Weasel]

No, the problem with Dragon Disciple is it doesn't actually get you caster levels; it gets you spells per day, which seem to be all the OP wants.

It also provides survivability (4 natural armor, d12 hit points, good Fortitude and Will saves) which looks to be the OP's other request. The class slowly grants ability modifiers, flight, a bite attack, blindsense and breath weapons, all useful to a melee build (besides the breath weapon, but it doesn't hurt to have). I think it's the only option that really fits the bill.

[Dausuul]

I'd say take two levels of sorc rather than one. The second level of sorc gives you +1 BAB, so all you're losing is a few hit points, and in exchange you get another spell known and another spell per day.

If you plan to make extensive use of true strike, then you should of course fight with a greatsword or falchion and use Power Attack. And I second the recommendation of being a paladin/sorc rather than a fighter/sorc; not only does that let you get extra benefits from your high Charisma, but it means you can use true strike on your smite attacks as well, and not have to worry about wasting your smite on a missed attack roll.

Then get Spirited Charge and Ride-By Attack and make heavy use of your paladin mount. Say you're a 5th-level paladin/2nd-level sorceror (BAB +6) with Strength 16, Cha 14, and a +2 greatsword. Then you can cast true strike, and on the next round make a charging smite attack with +29 to hit, inflicting 4d6+46 damage. Even without the smite, it's still +27 to hit and 4d6+36 damage.

(The damage breakdown: 2d6 greatsword +2 enhancement +4 Strength +12 Power Attack +5 smite = 2d6+23, and Spirited Charge doubles it.)

Also, invest in low-level wands and scrolls. A wand of true strike is only 750 gp and will pretty much remove your limitations on castings per day. A third-level wand of magic missile will give you a good ranged option for those pesky flying critters--assuming you didn't manage to score a flying mount :smallwink: . And you can get a bunch of scrolls for utility purposes, allowing you to supplement the party's main arcanist when needed.

[Draz74]

If Psionics are allowed, that opens up a couple good options. Ranger 1 / Psychic Warrior 4 / Slayer 10 / Psychic Warrior 5 is a favorite of mine. Paladin 4 / Wilder 1 / Slayer 10 / Wilder 5 is fun too. (Get the Divine Might feat for this build.)

If Psionics aren't allowed, I'd try the recommended Dragon Disciple route. The lack of full BAB is largely made up for by the +8 Strength you pick up, and while you still won't be able to make good use of armor, you can supplement your Mage Armor/Shielf buffs with a few points of Natural Armor. And d12 HD = :smallbiggrin:

Otherwise I would go Paladin 2 / Sorcerer 6 / Eldritch Knight 10 and just use the Still Spell feat liberally. This build takes a long time to become powerful, but eventually you'll have pretty good BAB and decent in-armor spellcasting. Not too good in the hit points area, though.

[CASTLEMIKE]

The traditional core-only gish (i.e. fighter/wizard hybrid) build is probably Fighter 1 / Wizard 5 / Eldritch Knight. The problem with this is that it plays mostly as a wizard who just happens to have a decent BAB; the build lacks hit points and can't wear armor well.

So I figured on doing the opposite: use a pure combat class, and add a level of sorcerer (or maybe wizard/bard) for support. Primarily, this means I get to cast True Strike a bunch of times per day.

Is this viable? Are there other useful spells to watch out for? (the only other level-one with no somatics appears to be Feather Fall)

FRCS in Champions of Valor introduced the Sword of the Arcane Order. Paladins and Rangers who cast arcane spells. It provides full BAB it that is the primary goal of the build.

[Dausuul]

FRCS in Champions of Valor introduced the Sword of the Arcane Order. Paladins and Rangers who cast arcane spells. It provides full BAB it that is the primary goal of the build.

Not core-only, though.

[Kurald Galain]

Thanks everyone for the advice. Yes, the intent is to make a warrior who enhances himself with magic, rather than a caster that happens to have decent BAB; i.e. a fighter/mage rather than a mage/fighter.

This does seem hard in core only, although a Barb 1 / Wiz 5 / EK seems to work reasonably well, using the Power Attack line to deal damage, and an Armor spell plus decent dex for protection. Reach weapon also sounds like a good idea. I can't take Spellsword because it's not core, but I'll look into Dragon Disciple as an alternative to EK. Refluffling would not be a problem.

This campaign is unlikely to hit level 20 (or even level 12) ever, so that's not really a concern. In fact I don't really need a high int since I wouldn't do spells with saving throws, and the spell level limit is unlikely to come up, and this is not a skill-heavy character.

I'm staying away from sorcerer because it gets level-2 spells a level later, and has problems with metamagic. Besides, I don't really feel like the behavioral code of a paladin for this character. Psionics are not really an option. I hadn't thought of a bard, so I'll take a look at that, although it seems to me that an eldritch knight both outfights and outcasts a bard

(edit) Human Paragon looks interesting...Essentially it loses a level of spellcasting, and means I get to enter Eldritch Knight a level later than usual, but on the other hand it gets WAY better skills, a bonus feat, on average 5 extra hit points, and an ability boost... hm.

(edit 2)
By level 8... not counting bonuses, and "standard" feats
Brb/Wiz/HP/EK has 5 BAB, 5 CL, 33 hp, 36 skl, 2ft;
Brb/Wiz/EK has 5 BAB, 6 CL, 28 hp, 30 skl, 2ft;
Bar/Sor/DD has 6 BAB, 4 CL, 38 hp, 30 skl; and
Sor/HP/DD has 6 BAB, 4 CL, 38 hp, 34 skl
Bard/DD has 6 BAB, 5 CL, 36 hp, 54 skl
Bard/HP/DD has 6 BAB, 4 CL, 40 hp, 48 skl, 1ft
(taking into account the DD's strength boost; the HP's boost can also be used on strength) (I'm surprised to learn that a bard/4 knows more 2nd-level spells than a sorc/4...)

[CASTLEMIKE]

Good luck if the Paragon is an option then so should the Battle Sorcerer variant since they come from the same source.

A level 8 Battle Sorcerer should have CL8, No ASF in light armor (Mithril Breast Plate since using core rules)

HP 8 + (an average of 4.5 hit points a level for an addition +31.5 HP) for 39 or 40 Hit Points.

+6/+1 BAB, proficiency in simple weapons and a single hand held martial weapon (Most PCs have a single weapon they use most of the time).

Daily base spellcasting before modification of 5 / 5 5 4 2 with 7 / 4 2 1 1 Known spells for a good mix of spellcasting to taste (Fixed limited known spells also higher than a comparable wizard build. Spellcasting which requires a lot less record keeping than a wizard).

For skill points with a human Int 10 I figure 33 skill points.

For a combat theme fighter type with some spellcasting:

Cantrips Read Magic, Prestidigitation, Ray of Frost + 3 to taste.

First: Magic Missile (Doesn't miss normally and will max at CL9), Color Spray, Ray of Enfeeblement, True Strike or even Magic Weapon or Shield.

Second: Two to taste: Bulls Strength or Invis or (learn an unusual spell like a "Scuplted Grease" a level 2 spell from a scroll so no feat required and not a meta spell for spellcasting) or False Life or Scorching Ray.

Third: Deep Slumber, Dispel Magic or Fly or Fire Ball or other spell to taste

Fourth: Shadow Conjuration (More options duplicating lots of lower level conjuration spells) or other spell to taste like Enervation or Ice Storm Phantasmal Killer.

A sorcerer can always cast a lower level spell in a higher level spell slot so quite a bit of flexibility.

[Person_Man]

Any build is viable if it roughly matches the power level of your gaming group. But from an objective point of view, a core Wizard/Fighter is weaker then a core Druid, Cleric, Wizard, Sorcerer, Paladin, Ranger, or pure Fighter. It would probably be on par with a Rogue, Monk, Bard, Barbarian, or other common suboptiomal multiclass combinations (Fighter/Rogue, Fighter/Cleric, etc).

As others have pointed out, True Strike is usually a trap.

Expected Damage = (Average Damage * % chance of hitting * # of attacks). (Obviously, the % chance of hitting usually decreases as you increase the number of attacks, but I don't have the sigma character on my keyboard that I need to write out the math correctly). So in most cases, your expected damage will be higher if you simply make two attacks, rather then wasting an action to cast a spell. This is particularly true whenever you have 2+ attacks per round. In the rare case when an enemy's AC is super high, you're usually better off just fighting defensively and waiting for the full casters in your party to kill him.

Here's some really simple advice. If you desperately want to cast low level spells while being a core only Fighter type, invest in Use Magic Device cross class and buy wands. They're relatively cheap, and you won't have to screw your BAB, AC, or class abilities to get access to the spells you want.

[Kurald Galain]

If you desperately want to cast low level spells while being a core only Fighter type, invest in Use Magic Device cross class and buy wands.

Maybe I'm missing something here, but as I recall the DC to activate a wand is 20. To do this reliably, you'd need, say, +12 to +15 on the UMD roll. Given a fighter's cha, that means at least ten ranks in the UMD skill. And since it's cross class, you'd have to be seventeenth level to pull that off.

Even if UMD was in class, you'd need to be seventh level to use wands at least semi-reliably. Not really an option for low-level campaigns.

[Darrin]

Even if UMD was in class, you'd need to be seventh level to use wands at least semi-reliably. Not really an option for low-level campaigns.

There are ways around that. I think... if you take a level in a class that has UMD as a class skill, then doesn't your maximum rank become CharLevel +3, even if you're buying it up as a cross-class skill from somewhere else?

Human Paragon would also fix that problem with adaptive learning.

I'd recommend against Barbarian/Wizard. Rage and spellcasting don't mix well.

Fighter 1/Wizard 3/Human Paragon 3 works well for Eldritch Knight.

[ranger89]

I had a fighter/sorcerer character that was quite good at what she did. Unfortunately, she died just before she reached the "sweet spot" of fighter 4/sorcerer 4 after a rather unfortunate encounter with some black pudding but that's a story for another day.

Several others have already made the same points that was going to make so I'll be brief:


Definitely go with a fighter who buffs through magic. Buffing will make up for the fact that you're not a pure fighter and you should have some spell slots left for other stuff like blasting, etc.
If you roll your ability score, it's worth putting a good score in Dex. If you point buy, don't skimp on the Dex. I think this build becomes quite problematic once you starting wearing anything more than light armor. A good Dex and a chain shirt will give you decent to good AC with keeping your ASF at 20% (which can be the suck but is certainly playable).
Definitely want a nice two-handed weapon since a shield will just jack up your ASF. My weapon of choice was a great sword. Having a shield/one-handed weapon backup is a good idea though.
Feats: Power Attack, Combat Casting, Cleave, Great Cleave. Combined with a Bull Strength buffed character makes for some fun.
Spells: Bull Strength, Shield, Burning Hands, touch spells. The first two gave my character the ability to stay on the front line long enough to deal out some serious damage. 15' cone and touch spells are also great since you're going to be in the thick of things.
The Sweet Spot: Fighter 4/Sorcerer 4 is sweet because you have two ablity score increases to jack up either your STR, CHA, CON or DEX, you'll have at least 6 feats, and Sorcerer 4 has access to level 3 spells like Fireball and Hold Person (which is really sweet since a 'held' person can be coup-de-grace'd :smallsmile: ) [EDIT: Made a mistake here. At Fighter 4/Sorcerer 4, you'd only have access to level 2 spells. But that would mean you can cast spells like Bull's Strength which is a great buffing spell. My apologies for the mistake but the sweet spot is still there for this build. After that character level, it's all gravy.]

This build worked great for me and was fun to play, mechanics-wise. Two years later, I'm still bummed she died well before her prime.

[Kurald Galain]

I'd recommend against Barbarian/Wizard. Rage and spellcasting don't mix well.
True, but where fighter/1 has one feat, barbarian/1 has more hit points, more skill points, and fast movement. Plus, flavor-wise, rage is technically a self-buff, and it can be started as a free action before an attack, and ended at will whenever you wish to cast another spell (although this gives fatigue).


Sorcerer 4 has access to level 3 spells like Fireball and Hold Person
How does a sorc/4 cast 3rd level spells? I thought they got those at 6th level?

[Darrin]

Feats: Power Attack, Combat Casting, Cleave, Great Cleave. Combined with a Bull Strength buffed character makes for some fun.


I'd strongly recommend against taking Combat Casting and Great Cleave. Combat Casting is (or should be) a well-known trap, it keeps appearing in Gish builds mostly because it's a requirement for Abjurant Champion (not available in core). Great Cleave is also a trap... the odds of being able to use this feat are so abysmally small... you'll get much better mileage out of other feats. (And while I actually have used Great Cleave to take out 8 goblins *once*, I used an Action Point to get it rather than waste a feat on it.)

Improved Initiative, Spell Focus and Greater Spell Focus are likely to be more useful, the last two particularly because your spell levels and save DCs are never going to be all that high.

If the SRD is considered core, Combat Expertise/Improved Trip/Knockdown is a nice combo.

[Stam]

If you can expand just a tiny bit to Complete Warrior, I'd suggest Swashbuckler3/Wizard5, then on into Eldritch Knight. You'll be casting 4 levels below your character level, but it should work out well.

The result of this is you can focus on only two stats - Int and Dex - which boost your damage and your to-hit, respectively. (Against most stuff, anyway.)

It doesn't give you the Featage of a Fighter, but gives you a much more useful Escape Artist/Tumble/Diplomancy set of skills as well as more skill points, a free feat that you'll find useful, and a tiny boost to Ref saves while keeping a solid Fort and Will.

[ranger89]

How does a sorc/4 cast 3rd level spells? I thought they got those at 6th level?

Oops! My bad. You are correct. Sorcerer 4 gets to cast Bull's Strength which is why I considered it part of the sweet spot. My PC must fighter 3/sorcerer 4 when she died (and so had access to Bull's Strength) and I must have thought it was fighter 4/sorcerer 3. Thanks for catching that. I'll edit my previous post accordingly.

All that aside, I still feel that the fighter/sorcerer build is a lot of fun to play.


I'd strongly recommend against taking Combat Casting and Great Cleave. Combat Casting is (or should be) a well-known trap, it keeps appearing in Gish builds mostly because it's a requirement for Abjurant Champion (not available in core). Great Cleave is also a trap

I'm curious about why you feel that Combat Casting but wil save that discussion for another thread or PM. Regarding Great Cleave, you're actually probably right. The campaign I ran my fighter/sorcerer in consisted of endless supply of beefed up goblins. The DM finally stoppede throwing them at us after he realized that my PC had become a "cusinart". Enter beefed up hobgoblins with more hit points, exit joyful Great Cleaving. When I run a fighter though, I still enjoy the benefits of Great Cleave at lower levels and wouldn't consider it a total waste. At the very least, it's a nice flavor feat and that makes it worthy of consideration in my book.

[Dr. Weasel]

The problem people have with Combat Casting is it only applies when Casting Defensively, where Skill Focus- Concentration gives nearly the same bonus for all situations (being hit when you're trying to cast, being interrupted with Ice Storm, casting on a mount)

[ranger89]

The problem people have with Combat Casting is it only applies when Casting Defensively, where Skill Focus- Concentration gives nearly the same bonus for all situations (being hit when you're trying to cast, being interrupted with Ice Storm, casting on a mount)

Interesting. I can't believe I never noticed that before. However, for the caster who will be casting within range of bad guys quite a bit and therefore provoking AoOs, wouldn't you consider Combat Casting important? Am I missing something else? Skill Focus Concentration gives you the +3 to your concentration check but doesn't allow to ignore the AoO. And a light armor wearing, non-full classed fighter-type needs to avoid as many hits as possible in my opinion.

[Person_Man]

Maybe I'm missing something here, but as I recall the DC to activate a wand is 20. To do this reliably, you'd need, say, +12 to +15 on the UMD roll. Given a fighter's cha, that means at least ten ranks in the UMD skill. And since it's cross class, you'd have to be seventeenth level to pull that off.

Even if UMD was in class, you'd need to be seventh level to use wands at least semi-reliably. Not really an option for low-level campaigns.

A 1 level dip into Rogue or a similar class will make UMD a class Skill. Able Learner or Human Paragon makes purchasing non-class Skills cost only 1 point. And you get a +2 to UMD with 5 ranks Spellcraft. If you can wait until ECL 11, a 1 level dip into Exemplar will take care of most of your Skill problems.

But you are correct to say that UMD is not viable for any PC in low level campaigns.

However, I would argue that any non-full spell progression PC is going to have a hard time at low levels if they rely on magic. I've seen it many times - the Gish PC hits ECL 7ish. His friends and enemies are beginning to cast their potent 4th level spells. But the Gish is still casting 1st and maybe 2nd level spells, and he doesn't have the BAB/hit points/AC/feats needed to be a strong meatshield. He's essentially a Bard, but without the useful Bard specific PrC to head into.

WotC has recognized this classic problem, and its one of the major goals of 4th ed to fix it. In the meantime, I suggest using a Duskblade or Wizard/Abjurant Champion/Whatever, or play a Bard/PrC and just call yourself an Eldritch Knight, or suck it up and forgo magic until mid levels when you can reliably use UMD.

[John Campbell]

Interesting. I can't believe I never noticed that before. However, for the caster who will be casting within range of bad guys quite a bit and therefore provoking AoOs, wouldn't you consider Combat Casting important? Am I missing something else? Skill Focus Concentration gives you the +3 to your concentration check but doesn't allow to ignore the AoO. And a light armor wearing, non-full classed fighter-type needs to avoid as many hits as possible in my opinion.

It's casting defensively that lets you ignore the AoO, not Combat Casting. You don't need Combat Casting to cast defensively. Combat Casting just gives you a +4 bonus on the Concentration check for it.

Skill Focus (Concentration) gives you a +3 bonus on the Concentration check for casting defensively, and for all other uses of the Concentration skill as well.

The extra +1 bonus on casting defensively (and casting while grappled) isn't worth giving up the +3 on all the other Concentration checks.

Actually, I don't think either of them are really worth the feat slot. You get a lot more skill points than you do feats, and if you keep Concentration maxed, your skill mod goes up faster than your DCs, so it becomes practically impossible to fail defensive casting checks fairly early on. (My PC literally cannot fail defensive casting checks for the highest level spells he can cast unless he's threatened by more than two enemies. I don't even bother rolling unless someone insists; then I just toss a d20 on the table and announce my success without looking at it.)

[ranger89]

It's casting defensively that lets you ignore the AoO, not Combat Casting.

Right, right, right. Sorry. I had a serious brain fart there. It's going to be very interesting the next time my group plays and I tell them all about this. I don't think anyone has ever played a caster and not taken Combat Casting.

[John Campbell]

The traditional core-only gish (i.e. fighter/wizard hybrid) build is probably Fighter 1 / Wizard 5 / Eldritch Knight. The problem with this is that it plays mostly as a wizard who just happens to have a decent BAB; the build lacks hit points and can't wear armor well.
It doesn't have to lack HP. My current PC is built along those lines (but with a non-core level of Runesmith to solve the armor problem), but has a 20 Con (dwarf). I'm not quite up to the level of the knight or paladin, HP-wise, but I'm pretty close, and my familiar has more HP than our sorceress.


So I figured on doing the opposite: use a pure combat class, and add a level of sorcerer (or maybe wizard/bard) for support. Primarily, this means I get to cast True Strike a bunch of times per day.
I had true strike + Power Attack with a two-handed axe in mind as a potential tactic when I was making my PC. Twelve levels later, I've never used it. I've always had something more useful to do with the action, or the spell slot, or both, even if it's just fire off a magic missile or five. If it were a swift action to cast, it'd be a different story, but it's not, and it's really not worth Quickening it (sorcs can't, anyway)... there are much more useful things to do with 5th level spell slots.

The Power Attack hasn't really been as useful as I hoped, either. Six wizard levels knocked my BAB back far enough that I don't often have to-hit-mod to spare. It's great for utterly hobliterating held or otherwise rendered helpless critters with coup de grace, though. (Auto-hit and auto-crit with an x3 two-handed weapon and all the Power Attack I can muster? Sign me up!)


Is this viable? Are there other useful spells to watch out for? (the only other level-one with no somatics appears to be Feather Fall)
The list of combat-useful no-somatic spells is pretty slim (deliberately so, I believe), especially if you don't get access to the Spell Compendium. There are a few enchantments and illusions, and later on you start getting into power words, but that's pretty much it. If you want to go the armored wizard route, I recommend taking Still Spell. It basically knocks all your spell slots back a level, but it doesn't totally gimp your spell selection. That's what I was planning on doing until I discovered Runesmith.

[Starbuck_II]

The traditional core-only gish (i.e. fighter/wizard hybrid) build is probably Fighter 1 / Wizard 5 / Eldritch Knight. The problem with this is that it plays mostly as a wizard who just happens to have a decent BAB; the build lacks hit points and can't wear armor well.

So I figured on doing the opposite: use a pure combat class, and add a level of sorcerer (or maybe wizard/bard) for support. Primarily, this means I get to cast True Strike a bunch of times per day.

Is this viable? Are there other useful spells to watch out for? (the only other level-one with no somatics appears to be Feather Fall)

True, in Core, you'd have to go Wizard and still spell every Somatic spell to wear armor effectively.
Though, Mithral Bucklers are core and useable.

I'll list the arcane Verbal spells for Wizard 0-1:
Level 0:
Flare is verbal (useful at all levels) Dur: 1 minute. dazzles dude.
Light

Level 1:
True Strike
I am not sure if more.

[DSCrankshaw]

Mithral shirts are useful too (10% arcane failure and no ACP), and if the Twilight property is allowed, that's 0% arcane failure, no ACP, and +5 AC from a +1 Twilight Mithral shirt that costs 5100 gp. (And since there's no ACP, there's no penalty for wearing it without the proficiency.) It's definitely the best armor for a wizard of any type.

Anyway, I'm partial to bards. They get decent buff spells, 3/4 BAB, and light armor with no arcane failure (allowing mithral breastplates at mid-levels). I'd like some non-core additions, though... Complete Mage has Lyric Thaumaturge and Melodic Casting (a must for bards), or Sublime Chord from Complete Arcane if you want nearly full casting (you can even take both for maximum spellcasting, but you lose out on bardic music and the skill requirements become pretty tight).

[Kyace]

Its not core, but if you happen to be in Faerun, there is a regional feat "Arcane Schooling" that lets a char use spell trigger items as if they had a level in one arcane class. Thus, a figter 5 with that feat could use a wand of true strike, not provoke AoO nor carry arcane spell failure from armor.

[Draz74]

I'll list the arcane Verbal spells for Wizard 0-1:
Level 0:
Flare is verbal (useful at all levels) Dur: 1 minute. dazzles dude.

Not very useful. Pretty low save DC, and even if it works, it's quite a waste of a standard action.



Light

Level 1:
True Strike
I am not sure if more.

There's about one good spell at each level without natural somatic components (in Core):

0) Flare, Light
1) True Strike
2) Blindness/Deafness
3) Displacement, Suggestion
4) Dimension Door
5) ?
6) Geas, Mass Suggestion

[Dr. Weasel]

Disregard most of the advice ("Many eldritch knights also take Lightning Reflexes to improve their poor Will save"), but keep the list: http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/prc/20061031a

Here it is, just to save time:

Spells without Somatic Components

0-level: flare, light

1st-level: feather fall, hold portal, true strike, ventriloquism

2nd-level: blindness/deafness, blur, darkness, knock

3rd-level: displacement, suggestion, tongues

4th-level: dimension door, lesser geas, shout

5th-level: contact other plane, teleport

6th-level: mass charm monster, geas/quest, mass suggestion

7th-level: Otto's irresistible dance, phase door, power word blind, teleport other, greater teleport

8th-level: power word stun

9th-level: Mordenkainen's disjunction, power word kill, prismatic sphere, teleportation circle, time stop, wail of the banshee, wish