Alternative Rules for Legacy Weapons (3rd pp and good Homebrew also OK)

[GrayDeath]

Hey guys!

In our "Full 20" Game my Character aims for Legacy Champion later on (for the obvious ability to both get neat stuff and keep progressing another necesary class).
Now both I myself and my GM agree that the original legacy Weapon Rules are terrible (the stupid Maluses....pfff, they would be worth it for major artifacts maybe...).

Since we dont want to completely homebrew anything unless necessary in that Campaign: Are there Alternatives already in existence? If so, in what book?

Thanks in advance.

[Mato]

I guess you're not aware that customized legacy items, specially if you're allowed to copy abilities from existing ones, leads to some of the most powerful items in D&D do you?

Look, it's not a hard sell point. Intelligent items are creatures (so you can buff it, like handing it an iuon stone) and they can use their own abilities, so by level 10 it can either cast scorching ray every single round adding up to +12d6 damage to everything you do or if your DM allows you to copy abilities displayed in other legacy items it can use white raven tactics to give you extra turns. It can even use intimidate for you.

It also has two of the most well known abilities, cunning which makes you immune to being flat-footed and slippery barrier which is an at-will swift-action grease that removes your target's dexterity bonus to AC and knocks them prone allowing you to easily hit them, prevent them from moving away, and set up sneak attack damage on every hit. Both of these abilities are accessible by level eleven and you can have both by level twelve and include everything included in the last paragraph (both blasting people and extra turns) by level thirteen.

You should probably learn how to use something before complaining it is terrible.

[Caelestion]

So, if your GM allows you to destroy the system, legacy items can destroy the system? Wow. Much cheese, very useful.

OP, have you considered using the Ancestral Weapon feat from Exalted Deeds instead? That allows you to customise your weapon as you see fit.

[GrayDeath]

Thank you, unlike the above rant this is a useful suggestion.

Yes, if one cheeses enough, custom Legacy Items can be incrfedibly powerful. But thats not the point. I am looking for a way to get similar overall abilities (and no, very much not aiming for a does things alone extremely well weapon^^) without crippling the Characters using them.

As my Character is lawful Evil, RAW Ancestral Weapon wont work, but maybe that can be refluffed. THanks for the Suggestion.


Overall: I am not looking for cheese, I am neither looking for Weapons whose powers are Artifact level or higher.
I am looking for a way to get something similar to Legacy Weapons without being crippled. If it does not exist, we`ll refluff AR or homebrew, but well,a sking does not hurt. ^^

[ExLibrisMortis]

Simply doing away with the penalties is a good way to bring the system up to par.

There are several classes that get the ability to enhance their weapon without crafting feats. Kensai and Samurai (OA) are the ones I can think of right now.

The Item Familiar feat in Unearthed Arcana is pretty good, too, but it is, shall we say, cheese-enabled. You can get some very nice bonuses to your skills, though.

[Mato]

So, if your GM allows you to destroy the system, legacy items can destroy the system? Wow. Much cheese, very useful.Yes, if the DM doesn't ban an entire chapter in a rulebook you can use the options available to players to come up with some very powerful options so long as you don't consciously choose poor ones. A closer analogy is you don't complain about classes in D&D being terrible because the fighter sucks. You make a better choice.


I am looking for a way to get something similar to Legacy Weapons without being crippled. If it does not exist, we`ll refluff AR or homebrew, but well,a sking does not hurt. ^^So use the Ancestral Weapon feat like Caelestion suggested or the Item Familiar feat like ExLibrisMortis suggested.

With Item Familiar, at level 7 it must become an intelligent item allowing it to cast it's own special abilities for you (unlike legacy items, you have no choice in this matter). It also gives you a +10% XP scale which is a massive benefit if you are looking into using spells that consume experience points, a bonus spell slot of the highest level you can use (and it can use one of yours), it obtains a better scale of greater powers then intelligent items normally do, and it doesn't penalize your character for using it like legacy items too. It's only banned from every game I've ever seen played online through, not a huge issue balance wise.

Ancestral Weapon on the other hand is a polymorphic item. It's limited to masterwork items which according to the crafting skill includes tools, but a key component is if the change costs less than one thousand gold it takes 0 days to change the magical traits on it so long as you have a nearby temple. Like with a masterwork weapon, after expended all your uses of sudden surge you can simply change it into holy surge. Another prime example is that runestaffs are masterwork weapons so you can freely change between them for a pseudo-spontaneous spellcasting. When you get into the magic item compendium's rules on allowing you to add a range of magical effects onto an item. Like a pair of masterwork manacles can give you a +6 enhancement bonus to dexterity and if that confuses people, just stop by the temple and change it into a +6 armor bonus to armor class.


Overall: I am not looking for cheese, I am neither looking for Weapons whose powers are Artifact level or higher. I am looking for a way to get something similar to Legacy Weapons without being crippled. If it does not exist, we`ll refluff AR or homebrew, but well,a sking does not hurt. ^^That's something that no on can help you with. I have my perceptions on what is weak or powerful, Caelestion has a different perception on what is weak or powerful than me, ExLibrisMortis has a different perception on what is weak or powerful than the both of us, and then you also have a different perception on what is weak or powerful than any of us.

You're going to have to choose from the options presented to you, such as that entire chapter in weapon of legacy you can pick from, and come up with something that doesn't make you jump from complaining something it terrible to claiming it's above-artifact because you never realized what kind of choices you could make. And that is the best advice you'll ever receive even if you don't realize it.

[Cosi]

Simply doing away with the penalties is a good way to bring the system up to par.

Agreed. This seems like the perfect ratio of "effort spent solving problem" to "amount of problem solved". If you get rid of the stupid penalties, you get something that is (IMHO) probably better than traditional items because of additional thematic upside you get. The game is probably better if instead of getting a +5 sword you're encouraged to get a +4 sword that lets you make illusions or animate undead minions.

Also you could write up new abilities.