Getting back on track: A paladin story!

[Lisselys]

Hello Playground!

I posted, not quite long ago (still not sure on thread necromancy so I'll just make a new post) about my Aasimar paladin.
So far, she's been a blast. Being the most talky person out of game, getting to play a Paladin is just asking to have those sweet epic talks with BBEGs.
I took your advices, and I'd like to ask again to your mighty wisdom about what can I do, since unfortunately she died (And yet, she's gonna come back stronger than before! (Not really))

The original build was a level 9 Aasimar (Angel blooded) Paladin of Iomedae (archetypes Chosen one and Oath of vengeance)
Str 19, Dex 10, Con 14, Int 10, Wis 8, Cha 18 (Level 4 and level 8 went to strenght)
I originally wanted a SnB paladin, but i recently swapped the light shield and the sword for a falchion
My feats are, therefore:
1- Fey foundling
3- Power attack
5- Battlecry
7- Angelic blood (in order to get Angelic Wings at 11)
9- Improved critical (Falchion)

All skill points were allocated as such: 7 to Diplomacy, 6 to sense motive, 4 to Umd, 1 to Knowledge Religion

As for mercies, I took Sickened Dazed and Injured.


The point being made, for Rp reasons I am going to lose the Chosen one archetype in order to resurrect and I've been allowed to change a few things about feats/archetypes. Not so much as to build an entirely new character, but still.

Just a few info so that you can view the entire situation:
The party is composed of other 4 people: a Gunslinger and a ranged magus (Whose damage is so high that the dm is basically powering up every goddamn monster in order to resist more than 2 turn to them, which in turn means *I* get their hands off them and get my ass whooped); a Monk (Turtle/mantis style) and an inquisitor (Melee built).

We are forbidden to buy a wand to heal out of combat, so every cure light wounds/Infernal Healing/and so on wands are off the table, and I realized I just NEVER used the Oath of vengeance ability since my Lay on Hands are SO important to survive.


That being said, I am wondering and asking you:

Should I drop the Oath of vengeance? Being able to channel 5d6 at this level and heal me (+2 per dice)+them OOC is a pretty good ability I guess.
Should I take Sacred Servant? If so, why is it so good? Lesser Planar ally will be used very little since we had a gentleman's agreement with my dm to avoid summoning/getting more people on the table than we already are.
Should I change some feats? (I know angelic blood/wings is not that good, but still the flavour is SOOO good. Also, no real spellcaster in the party.). Should I drop battlecry? (I have a lot of things to do with my Swift action)

Thank you for all the help you will provide,
Lisselys

[Geddy2112]

Since you are going against serious beefcake monsters and your magus and gunslinger will wipe the floor with most things, I would shift your build into more of a combat medic paladin. You still want to two handed weapon power attack, but focus more on healing and less on smiting. Dropping oath of vengeance to get your channeling back will help, but if you wanna go whole hog pickup the hospitaer archetype and get a separate channeling pool on top of your LoH.

Sacred servent is bonkers mainly for the free planar Ally replacing an otherwise meh ability, but if your dm is against you using it then probably not as good. Getting extra spells and a domain power is no joke though, and then the Divine bond boost to casting or healing is arguably stronger and more versatile than hospitalier. Homegirl dae has some really good domains-sun and glory are both good for undead nuking, although glory is more versatile. If you go glory I would grab heroism, as you still get the awesome cha based buff to your diplomacy, but instead of meh sanctuary swift action heroism is no joke, and a boost to channeled energy DC. War is also a really good domain, with tactics being a buff domain to ensure your squad goes first. And the extra spells from all those domains are something, even if meh more spells is always handy.

Another option that would require reworking feats is sacred shield. Focus on turtling and protection in addition to healing your friends and smacking face with a spiked shield. You would draw aggro but still have the defensive bonuses of smite. You would lose power attack for improved shield bash, and that requires reworking weapons as well if you could swing it.

I would drop battle cry regardless of build. You are immune to fear and you already give a +4 to morale to fear within 10feet to your allies. A +1 morale to attack is meh as well considering your magus and gunslinger can hit anything and your Inquisitor can throw down a judgement or a buff spell if need be. If you wanna really buff take oath of the people's council and moonlight as a bard. There are tons of better feats, like greater mercy or really anything. It is a decent feat for some bards oracle's and maybe swashbucklers but not really paladins.

I don't think your party is that without magic, and the magus and Inquisitor should have some utility spells and the magus can prepare, so long as their spellbook is loaded up with lots of goodies. You can pray for your spells and get whatever is needed, so just fill in the gaps they leave and you should be okay. A domain or oath is just extra goodness.

[Azoth]

Hospitalar + Agathion Divine Bond will give you a good amount of healing for a Paladin. Having a separate channel pool and 1/day (eventually 4/day) for 1 minute binding an Agathion to your soul to add charisma mod (eventually Charisma mod +5) to all your healing abilities isn't anything to sneeze at.

Plus it is kind of cool to use the new features as a hook for you not coming back completely your former self. Nothing like having part of an outsider fused to your soul that manifests periodically granting you powers beyond what you could originally wield.

Damn, now I wish Paladin's had better spellcasting progression. Summon Guardian Spirit to forcefully and temporarily make the spirit manifest as an Agathion Silvanshee would be awesome. Shame Paladin's don't get above 4th level spells.

[Lisselys]

Since you are going against serious beefcake monsters and your magus and gunslinger will wipe the floor with most things, I would shift your build into more of a combat medic paladin. You still want to two handed weapon power attack, but focus more on healing and less on smiting. Dropping oath of vengeance to get your channeling back will help, but if you wanna go whole hog pickup the hospitaer archetype and get a separate channeling pool on top of your LoH.
That is a pretty good option actually. I would still be able to hold my own in combat, and being able to heal with channeling is very useful, especially since I get a completely different pool. I thought about it many times but I feared that the loss of smite (Or, to be fair, on the number of smites available) would damage my ability to fight. As I realized while gaming, that is definitely not true: I only smite 1 or 2 enemies during the day, always fearing that the smite will be far more useful in another instance.





Sacred servent is bonkers mainly for the free planar Ally replacing an otherwise meh ability, but if your dm is against you using it then probably not as good. Getting extra spells and a domain power is no joke though, and then the Divine bond boost to casting or healing is arguably stronger and more versatile than hospitalier. Homegirl dae has some really good domains-sun and glory are both good for undead nuking, although glory is more versatile. If you go glory I would grab heroism, as you still get the awesome cha based buff to your diplomacy, but instead of meh sanctuary swift action heroism is no joke, and a boost to channeled energy DC. War is also a really good domain, with tactics being a buff domain to ensure your squad goes first. And the extra spells from all those domains are something, even if meh more spells is always handy.
I already looked at those domain and the Archetype, and since
A) it does not combine with Hospitaler
B) The planar ally boon is most likely going to be underutilized
C) We are basically facing... No undead
It's probably not worth picking it up. I will definitely consider it for the buffs on healing and the other options!




Another option that would require reworking feats is sacred shield. Focus on turtling and protection in addition to healing your friends and smacking face with a spiked shield. You would draw aggro but still have the defensive bonuses of smite. You would lose power attack for improved shield bash, and that requires reworking weapons as well if you could swing it.
About Sacred Shield... I guess that's not an option. In order for it to become actually usable I'd have to rewrite the entire character, since I can't even TWF with my stats. Improved shield bash gives far too little to use, and since the clarification I can't use an Heavy shield with my LoH ability. This means yeah, I can use a buckler or a Light shield, but focusing on it means I'd have to drop the falchion for a +1 shield bonus. I definitely can switch combat style, but I'm not sure if going full shield focus is a good idea.




I would drop battle cry regardless of build. You are immune to fear and you already give a +4 to morale to fear within 10feet to your allies. A +1 morale to attack is meh as well considering your magus and gunslinger can hit anything and your Inquisitor can throw down a judgement or a buff spell if need be. If you wanna really buff take oath of the people's council and moonlight as a bard. There are tons of better feats, like greater mercy or really anything. It is a decent feat for some bards oracle's and maybe swashbucklers but not really paladins.
Yeah that was my guess as well.. But what to take?
Greater mercy seems a good option (Does it work with Injured? It's technically a mercy I'm applying, yet there's no condition to remove), but aside from that? Weapon Focus?
I'm seriously thinking about swapping the Falchion for a longsword and shield, dropping the THF altogether (This is in conjunction with RP reasons, since Iomedae uses a Longsword and a Shield). Is it worth going the bullrush route? Inheritor's smite gives a free Bull rush and a good bonus to it, and I've used it a few times, with good results (Better positioning for my allies, more control over the battlefield)


I don't think your party is that without magic, and the magus and Inquisitor should have some utility spells and the magus can prepare, so long as their spellbook is loaded up with lots of goodies. You can pray for your spells and get whatever is needed, so just fill in the gaps they leave and you should be okay. A domain or oath is just extra goodness.
The magus is focused on blasting, so no buff spells. The inquisitor is a new character from a pretty unexperienced player, and is probably gonna focus pretty hard on the melee side. She already played a Warpriest and a Psychic.
Yeah, unfortunately we're pretty much stuck on the spell side and, having played many spellcasters before, I don't want to force them on playing a different style other than what they like since it can get pretty frustrating (See my previous threads about my party "forcing" me to change my style).



Hospitalar + Agathion Divine Bond will give you a good amount of healing for a Paladin. Having a separate channel pool and 1/day (eventually 4/day) for 1 minute binding an Agathion to your soul to add charisma mod (eventually Charisma mod +5) to all your healing abilities isn't anything to sneeze at.

Plus it is kind of cool to use the new features as a hook for you not coming back completely your former self. Nothing like having part of an outsider fused to your soul that manifests periodically granting you powers beyond what you could originally wield.

Damn, now I wish Paladin's had better spellcasting progression. Summon Guardian Spirit to forcefully and temporarily make the spirit manifest as an Agathion Silvanshee would be awesome. Shame Paladin's don't get above 4th level spells.
Hospitaler already gives me a lot of healing potential, the agathion divine bond seems a little overkill to be honest. With Hospitaler I'd be healing 4d6+8 on myself 9 times (Avg 22 per LoH, 198 Hp total) and Channeling for 3d6 8 times a day (Avg 10.5, 16.5 on myself, grand total of 84 aoe healing).
At level 9, taking Agathion and using it extensively, I'd be healing 112 hp more (7 from Cha+lvl times 17 healings I can provide). Yeah, it's good, but seriously: If we ever get in the situation where I'd need to bring the whole party full hp more than 2 times, I'd start questioning what are we doing wrong :smallbiggrin:



So, just to recap and to allow people to join in the conversation:
Hospitaler seems a good choice overall, but what about feat selection? Dropping Battlecry seems a good idea, what to replace it with?
Going SnB and bullrush is, I guess, a good idea, but what are your thoughts?
Should I stick with the falchion and drop battlecry for greater mercy?
The feat selection could look something like:
1 Fey Foundling
3 Power attack (If I don't go SnB... in that case I don't actually know if it's really that worth)
5 Improved bull rush? greater mercy?
7 Angel blooded
9 Improved critical falchion? Should i continue the bull rush feat line? What about taking Ultimate mercy? (I still wouldn't be able to power it up, but an headband of charisma +4 is on the way I guess)

[Geddy2112]

That is a pretty good option actually. I would still be able to hold my own in combat, and being able to heal with channeling is very useful, especially since I get a completely different pool. I thought about it many times but I feared that the loss of smite (Or, to be fair, on the number of smites available) would damage my ability to fight. As I realized while gaming, that is definitely not true: I only smite 1 or 2 enemies during the day, always fearing that the smite will be far more useful in another instance.
I have played alongside a hospitalier and trust me, they are no slouch in combat. Your smite draws attention, and that is exactly what you want, and it also boosts your AC against the creature. While you don't have the whoopass power of other paladins, you can soak damage like no tomorrow without hiding healing from the party. If you go hospitalier, it might be worth it to take selective channel as well should you plan to use it in combat. Another feat to take once you qualify is protective channel, as it is your deity's channel feat and it is bonkers good. As a hospitalier, you can't grab it till level 16 but it is worth it, and just as good on vanilla dae paladin.



I already looked at those domain and the Archetype, and since
A) it does not combine with Hospitaler
B) The planar ally boon is most likely going to be underutilized
C) We are basically facing... No undead
It's probably not worth picking it up. I will definitely consider it for the buffs on healing and the other options!
Sacred servant is a paladin moonlighting as a cleric, for players who want the cleric toys but martial prowess and not zillions of spells.


About Sacred Shield... I guess that's not an option. In order for it to become actually usable I'd have to rewrite the entire character, since I can't even TWF with my stats. Improved shield bash gives far too little to use, and since the clarification I can't use an Heavy shield with my LoH ability. This means yeah, I can use a buckler or a Light shield, but focusing on it means I'd have to drop the falchion for a +1 shield bonus. I definitely can switch combat style, but I'm not sure if going full shield focus is a good idea. If you were doing this you would probably just want a single heavy shield and a free hand, but I understand it is not really feasible for your build, as it is a very fundamentally different paladin out of the gate.



Yeah that was my guess as well.. But what to take?
Greater mercy seems a good option (Does it work with Injured? It's technically a mercy I'm applying, yet there's no condition to remove), but aside from that? Weapon Focus?
I'm seriously thinking about swapping the Falchion for a longsword and shield, dropping the THF altogether (This is in conjunction with RP reasons, since Iomedae uses a Longsword and a Shield). Is it worth going the bullrush route? Inheritor's smite gives a free Bull rush and a good bonus to it, and I've used it a few times, with good results (Better positioning for my allies, more control over the battlefield)
I suppose injured supplants the need for greater mercy altogether(short of qualifying for ultimate mercy), as it will heal far more than greater mercy ever will. You could take extra mercy, or really anything else. Inheritor's smite is a good trick, but I don't think I would specialize in bull rushing or waste feats on it. Inheritors smite already gives a +5 to the check, and you are a full BAB strong character so wasting a feat for +2 to something you will only do sometimes is meh. Bull rushing is better on a sacred shield using shield slam. Sword and board is not a bad idea considering you are not focusing on maxing damage anyways and more AC helps you soak more, so long as your AC is not so high you cannot be hit.



The magus is focused on blasting, so no buff spells. The inquisitor is a new character from a pretty unexperienced player, and is probably gonna focus pretty hard on the melee side. She already played a Warpriest and a Psychic.
Yeah, unfortunately we're pretty much stuck on the spell side and, having played many spellcasters before, I don't want to force them on playing a different style other than what they like since it can get pretty frustrating (See my previous threads about my party "forcing" me to change my style).
Ah yeah, they only see magic as a different type of sword. Well good thing is most paladin spells increase your damage and beatstick output, but I would still have some paladin's sacrifice and other utility prepared. You can prepare lesser restoration as a first level spell, which fits in the whole medic theme and is something your group otherwise has no access to. Hero's defiance is really good if you find yourself going down a lot. Knight's calling is another way to force aggro towards you, and the litanies of debuff/fires of entanglement are great to keep enemies pinned to you so they hit you and your friends shoot or beat them dead. The thing is, these are just icing on the cake as you fight, and an extension of your melee instead of buffing/debuffing, so I would be shocked if they noticed or cared. If they did, you can play it off as "I am the combat medic. My first job is to prevent you all from dying, and as a medical professional I know the best care is preventative, which means stopping them from hurting you."



So, just to recap and to allow people to join in the conversation:
Hospitaler seems a good choice overall, but what about feat selection? Dropping Battlecry seems a good idea, what to replace it with?
Going SnB and bullrush is, I guess, a good idea, but what are your thoughts?
Should I stick with the falchion and drop battlecry for greater mercy?
The feat selection could look something like:
1 Fey Foundling
3 Power attack (If I don't go SnB... in that case I don't actually know if it's really that worth)
5 Improved bull rush? greater mercy?
7 Angel blooded
9 Improved critical falchion? Should i continue the bull rush feat line? What about taking Ultimate mercy? (I still wouldn't be able to power it up, but an headband of charisma +4 is on the way I guess)
Again, I would probably not take greater mercy unless you also want ultimate mercy, as injured is flat out better and greater mercy will never trigger. Improved critical falchion is great if you stick with the falchion, but greater bull rush is a great choice with your party as well, considering you can knock them back and since that movement will provoke your inquisitor and monk friend will get some zesty AoO's. That said, I don't think those are necessarily the best choices either. Keep in mind you can bull rush with a falchion and inheritor's smite as well, but I don't think bull rushing instead of attacking is a good idea for your build at all(a sacred shield with the shield bash tree would be able to do so for free with attacking, but you don't qualify). Even if you go S&B, a full BAB character still gets good use of power attack-you need to be dangerous enough that enemies don't ignore you. I would strongly consider selective channel if you go hospitalier for your 5th level feat, letting you channel in combat if needed. Extra mercy is never a bad choice either.

Another choice that uses feats(or instead trade out mercies) is iomidae's divine fighting technique. The first one in the tree lets you full round to give a heroism (sacred instead of morale) bonus to your party for a minute, great to open combat if you are out of charge range. The advanced fighting style is probably too feat intensive, but you can use a 9th level mercy to get it instead, which allows you to do the same if you hit an enemy with a charge or standard action. Both require using a longsword, but a good idea if you go S&B.

[Florian]

Ah, Lisselys, now we're basically back again at the point we left the previous discussion and nothing really changed since then.

Angelic Blood > Angelic Wings is still a waste of feats, same as Battlecry. You still don't want to have Improved Critical because OoV gives you Wrath as a bonus spell which incidentally gives you Improved Critical at CL 12 (and you want the Angelic Aspect line of spells for defense, which will give you flight) and a Extra LoH is "worth" 4 points of CHA for you, hasn't changed.

The advise still stands to go for a four level dip of Life Oracle (Pei Zin) to get that in-combat healing going and still keep the OaV to be flexible. Still, Pally as a class offers some surprising options that can put even a Magus to shame when you fully utilize them.

[Lisselys]

Ah, Lisselys, now we're basically back again at the point we left the previous discussion and nothing really changed since then.

Angelic Blood > Angelic Wings is still a waste of feats, same as Battlecry. You still don't want to have Improved Critical because OoV gives you Wrath as a bonus spell which incidentally gives you Improved Critical at CL 12 (and you want the Angelic Aspect line of spells for defense, which will give you flight) and a Extra LoH is "worth" 4 points of CHA for you, hasn't changed.

The advise still stands to go for a four level dip of Life Oracle (Pei Zin) to get that in-combat healing going and still keep the OaV to be flexible. Still, Pally as a class offers some surprising options that can put even a Magus to shame when you fully utilize them.

Yeah, I'm sorry if I didn't reply back to that thread, had a pretty rough time with exams, but your suggestions were all pretty great (I swapped for falchion etc) and I wanted to try out the character. The battlecry feat actually helped us sometimes, the second roll was pretty great and helped us survive some bad rolls. Still, I agree that maybe it's better to swap it out for something stronger since the real problem is not its usefulness, but the swift action slot I have to use to pump it out (If first round is smite and from then on I have to LoH or use some swift action spells... There's no point in having a swift action feat).

I still stand by my point about the wings. I know it's a sub-optimal choice, but I tend to prefer having an all around character. Angelic aspect is still a min/level spell, and my caster level/spells per day are not that much. Also, at the moment I still didn't find any reliable or more useful feats (Yeah, extra lay on hands is good, but not as good as the ability to simply fly to a flying enemy without needing the magus to prepare 3 slots of fly everyday. Also, IF I dip oracle, my caster level would just pummel down a lot more and I won't get the spell before level 13)

Still, I'm not gonna deny help and criticism (Still very appreciated and useful! I thank you very much for the time you are dedicating me), and I will reply to the critics to the build you pointed out in the last thread
The Ioun Wyrd thing was explained deeply in the background, and my DM decided to approve it. It was a purely fluff thing, still it's going away so I guess that's not a problem anymore.
Fey foundling is a staple in many guides and builds I've seen with paladins. The extra healing on all sources is simply too strong, and my personal experience is definitely agreeing on that. +2 on dices means, on average at my actual level, +8 per LoH or +72 total healing. It saved my arse several times, also avoiding me to expend useful resources.

I could dip Pei Zin oracle, even though I don't get why I should get 4 levels. I'm trading the level 1 revelation for the extra Lay on Hands (that is a pretty sweet deal!) but why 4 levels? For the level 2 spells?



That said, in order to respond to both of you:

The feat selection (aside from level 1 with fey foundling) are pretty much open, and I have 4 feats to play with. If I swap the falchion for the Longsword I could take Iomedae's fighting technique as my level 9 mercy (That's a good one! Didn't see that), and take extra mercy for the injured mercy as a level 9 feat. Yeah, my damage would drop but I still have the smite to compensate. Also, apparently greater mercy and the Injured mercy stack since "Injured" is not a condition that my mercies can remove (Not many discussions on the topic but the ones I find agree with this logic) but I don't know if the 1d6+2 or 1d6 on others are really worth. Yeah, it's an extra oomph.
Also, can I take the second part of the Divine fighting technique without taking the first one? Or are they connected in some way? Do I need to spend the 3rd level and 9th level mercy to get the whole feat or can I spend just the 9th one (Which seems fare more useful?)

So my feats could be something like (If I change style into a SnB one):
1 Fey foundling
3 Improved Bull rush
5 Angelic blood
7 Quick bull rush (In order to use it with my full attack action)
9 Extra Mercy (Taking the divine fighting technique as my level 9 mercy and using this to get injured)
Or
1 Fey foundling
3 ??? Greater mercy/Extra Lay on hands?
5 Angelic Blood
7 ?? Ultimate mercy/Selective channeling?
9 Extra mercy

Still on an empasse about level 3 and level 7 feats in this case.

If I stick with the Falchion
1 Fey foundling
3 ??
5 Angelic Blood
7 ??
9 ??
Extra lay on hands, greater and ultimate mercy seem good choices, but I'd like your opinion on these 3 possibilities.

This is all without taking in consideration the Hospitaler or other archetypes obviously.

Thank you all very much for the help,
Lisselys

[Geddy2112]

Florian has a point about oradin being bonkers good and the healing of such power being basically the best healer in the game. Life oracle+pei zen or spirit guide wandering into life gets into some redonkulus healing power. However, you don't have to go that way and you can still be a really strong healer but not a healbot.
I agree that wings are not the most optimal or required choice, but rule of cool I totally back your choice. I mean, they are angel wings. If I play an aasimar I will always take this as my 11th level feat, even if suboptimal. Simply because they ARE FREAKING ANGEL WINGS. Also nonmagical flight at will is still strong, just not optimized. I also agree extra LoH is strong but not required. I personally like feats that give more options and utility to a character, but you can't deny raw efficacy.

Hm, I suppose you are right now that I read injured and greater mercy more carefully. This means they stack, which is healing on healing on healing on healing. LoH yourself and get an extra d6 and fast healing 3 is really nice, but if you are going this path you might as well get ultimate mercy so you can res your friends.

The way divine fighting technique works as a feat is that you have to worship the right deity to take it. Then, once you have it, you qualify for any benefit if you meet the prerequisites. This means if you take the feat or spend a mercy, you can get the initial benefit. If you took the feat, and meet all the prerequisites you can get the advanced benefit too. That said, if you want just the advanced I believe you can simply toss your 9th level mercy to get it and then pickup injured with extra mercy feat. Remember you can always throw a smite or swift action spell as part of a full round charge or longsword display. The initial benefit is no slouch,but only useful if you cannot make a charge or get into combat, which is probably rare with your lower initiative bonus, and rarer once you can fly charge.

As an aside, if you want to really get down with homegirl's devotion, you can take her paladin archetype, sword of valor (https://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/core-classes/paladin/archetypes/paizo-paladin-archetypes/sword-of-valor). Losing divine grace is rough, but you gain the ability to act in surprise rounds and CHA to initiative which is nice. Prayer of the 4th act is well worth a mercy if you can find time to buff before combat. It won't stack with hospitalier though...

[Lisselys]

Florian has a point about oradin being bonkers good and the healing of such power being basically the best healer in the game. Life oracle+pei zen or spirit guide wandering into life gets into some redonkulus healing power. However, you don't have to go that way and you can still be a really strong healer but not a healbot.
I agree that wings are not the most optimal or required choice, but rule of cool I totally back your choice. I mean, they are angel wings. If I play an aasimar I will always take this as my 11th level feat, even if suboptimal. Simply because they ARE FREAKING ANGEL WINGS. Also nonmagical flight at will is still strong, just not optimized. I also agree extra LoH is strong but not required. I personally like feats that give more options and utility to a character, but you can't deny raw efficacy.
Absolutely not denying the strenght of extra LoH, and I can still pick it up actually!




The way divine fighting technique works as a feat is that you have to worship the right deity to take it. Then, once you have it, you qualify for any benefit if you meet the prerequisites. This means if you take the feat or spend a mercy, you can get the initial benefit. If you took the feat, and meet all the prerequisites you can get the advanced benefit too. That said, if you want just the advanced I believe you can simply toss your 9th level mercy to get it and then pickup injured with extra mercy feat. Remember you can always throw a smite or swift action spell as part of a full round charge or longsword display. The initial benefit is no slouch,but only useful if you cannot make a charge or get into combat, which is probably rare with your lower initiative bonus, and rarer once you can fly charge.
That's actually good news!


As an aside, if you want to really get down with homegirl's devotion, you can take her paladin archetype, sword of valor (https://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/core-classes/paladin/archetypes/paizo-paladin-archetypes/sword-of-valor). Losing divine grace is rough, but you gain the ability to act in surprise rounds and CHA to initiative which is nice. Prayer of the 4th act is well worth a mercy if you can find time to buff before combat. It won't stack with hospitalier though...
Not really sure about this. Yeah, Iomedae's style is really nice RP wise, even if suboptimal, but taking this will just plummet my paladin to certain death. Losing a +5 on all saves hurts a lot, especially since I had to dump Dex and Wis in order to get Str and Cha decently high. It gives some nice boons, but the loss hurts too hard.

Still, I think I made my mind:
I will go SnB to emulate Iomedae, Rp wise seems a good choice.
Level 1 Fey foundling
Level 3 power attack
Level 5 Angelic Blood
Level 7 What to take? That's my real problem. Extra lay on hands? Extra channeling? Greater mercy seems the best options tbh but I still can't make up my mind
Level 9 Extra mercy

[Geddy2112]

Still, I think I made my mind:
I will go SnB to emulate Iomedae, Rp wise seems a good choice.
Level 1 Fey foundling
Level 3 power attack
Level 5 Angelic Blood
Level 7 What to take? That's my real problem. Extra lay on hands? Extra channeling? Greater mercy seems the best options tbh but I still can't make up my mind
Level 9 Extra mercy
Looks good. For 7th level, greater mercy is the choice if you want to grab ultimate at level 13, or possibly level 9. Extra LoH beats out greater mercy but not by all that much, but is it is mechanically going to heal more HP. I would probably get greater mercy to unlock ultimate as an option, but it is really personal preference. You don't need extra channeling if you are going hospitalier.

[Lisselys]

Looks good. For 7th level, greater mercy is the choice if you want to grab ultimate at level 13, or possibly level 9. Extra LoH beats out greater mercy but not by all that much, but is it is mechanically going to heal more HP. I would probably get greater mercy to unlock ultimate as an option, but it is really personal preference. You don't need extra channeling if you are going hospitalier.
Yeah that's true. Seems a pretty good option, and probably gonna be my choice.
Level 13 is gonna be the moment I get to resurrect people with my own hands then!

Still, I was looking around and I got my eyes on the Sentinel PrC. What are your thoughts about it? Seems not bad. I would drop some neat stuff (And if going Hospitaler I'd have a single use of the smite evil feature until level 11) but the bonus are definitely not bad on first impression. Your thoughts?

[Florian]

I could dip Pei Zin oracle, even though I don't get why I should get 4 levels. I'm trading the level 1 revelation for the extra Lay on Hands (that is a pretty sweet deal!) but why 4 levels? For the level 2 spells?

Combining LoH with the Lifelink mystery is maybe one of the best and most stable group heals around. Grab the Extra Mystery feat the get the Channel Energy mystery and 4 levels of Oracle will give you the exact amount of LoH/Channel that you'd miss out by not advancing the Paladin. Rest is an equipment thing, as stuff like Silver Smite Bracelets or Mercy Bracelets will function as if you were 4 levels higher when it comes to Smite Evil and such.

[Geddy2112]

Yeah that's true. Seems a pretty good option, and probably gonna be my choice.
Level 13 is gonna be the moment I get to resurrect people with my own hands then!

Still, I was looking around and I got my eyes on the Sentinel PrC. What are your thoughts about it? Seems not bad. I would drop some neat stuff (And if going Hospitaler I'd have a single use of the smite evil feature until level 11) but the bonus are definitely not bad on first impression. Your thoughts?

I am not a major fan of sentinel. If your game allows leadership it is a better PrC, but most games and tables I have played at ban leadership outright. If you go sentinel the aligned strike is a really nice sell, as is the static boost to attack and damage. For a purely martial class, I never saw sentinel as all that much better than the base class counterpart. It works better for some deities than others, and is not bad for a vanilla martial. Paladin is kind of martial but sentinel won't progress your spells or lay on hands, which is kind of a big deal. Being able to cut through aligned DR is pretty nice though. If you really want it, you either go 5 ranks for aligned DR defeating, six for the 2nd boon, 8 for leadership, or 9 for the 3rd boon(but it better be really good).

Dae's 2nd boon for sentinels is really cool for paladins as it is smite on crack, and giving smite to martial classes is not bad.Her third boon is garbage: I never got the whole "smite banishes" thing(mainly from the paladin capstone power), I don't see something that you would want to smite as worthy of banishing-outsiders die for good, destroy them. I would rather it be a save or die like all the other awesome capstones that are save or die, not save or oh they come back next round. Baddies at that level will just plane shift back. Leave banishing to the arcane casters and feeble clerics unable to lay the smackdown, for mid levels where it means far more.