Irresistible dance mental prison force cage Maze

[Whit]

Out of these 4 spells which do similar remove target action, rank their importance
1. Irresistible dance. Auto 1 round can’t leave space, disadvantage on attack roll and dex saves, and party has attack advantage. Use an action round to make wisdom save.
(1round auto plus 1 action save) giving your party bonus to attack
2. Mental prison. Intelligence save take 5d10. Fail save take 5d10 and take target out of combat up to 1 minute or target takes 10d10 to leave. (Auto damage but no guarantee removal)
3. Forcecage 1 hour 4 hex cage or 2 hex cage multiple target no save only leave by casting teleport or interplanar travel charisma save.
(Auto 1 round multi targets banish with 1 hour time and limited escape chance) no damage potential
4. Maze auto banish 1 creature for 1 round. up to 10 minutes max but an intelligence save returns.
( 1 round auto removal)

Personally Irresistible dance is 1 round no save, no dex save, can’t move, disadvantage attack’s and also giving your Comrades advantage attack for 1 Round Insane. And then the target needs to use 1 action to save OMG I think that’s should be switch with maze

[Blood of Gaea]

Irresistible Dance:

Sixth level spell.
Concentration.
Wisdom save.
They must waste at least one turn before making a save.
They can still use their Action, Reaction, and Bonus Action.
Disadvantage on dexterity saving throws and attack rolls.
Charm Immunity counters.
May be attacked, and grants advantage.


Mental Prison:

Sixth level spell.
Concentration.
Intelligence save.
Deals a considerable amount of damage over time.
Blinded, deafened, and restrained.
May be moved it out of the effect, but they'll eat 10d10 damage.
Charm Immunity counters.
Can be attacked, and grants advantage.



Force Cage:

Seventh level spell.
Not concentration.
No Save.
Teleportation may be used to escape with a successful charisma save.
Immune to Dispel Magic.
Countered by Disintegrate.
Does not stop spells and effects that do not require line of effect.
Can be used defensively.



Maze:

Eight level spell.
Concentration.
Int check (not a save) to escape.
Will be trapped for at least one turn before escape.
Minotaur and goristro demon's automatically pass the check.
Cannot be attacked.


In general, I would rate them as:

Irresistible Dance
Force Cage
Mental Prison
Maze

But that list could easily change depending on the situation.

[MrStabby]

As with all of these things there is an element of "it depends"

There is the obvious issue of different save types but other than that, there are a few other things to consider:

Concentration. How long do you need to keep it going, how tough is the fight, do you need/expect to do damage whilst concentrating on the spell?

Linked to this - who else is in the party? What other spells are there? If someone is also dropping wall of force then irresistible dance might be enough - especially of you have split off the most powerful guy. On the other hand if you need to take a powerful monster out of the fight for a long time, it can be tough to beat maze.

I realise it isn't on this list - but I would rank banishment top for this kind of effect. When you are expending a level 6 spell slot to remove enemies from the game I think you can do worse than banishment to force saves from three enemies.

[Blood of Gaea]

On the other hand if you need to take a powerful monster out of the fight for a long time, it can be tough to beat maze.
Particularly due to it calling for an Intelligence check, rather than a save. Which means it's just as effective on Legendary creatures, and even against the ones with a high Int score, it's still a guaranteed round. :smallsmile:

[Crgaston]

It does depend, but imo it’s tough to justify Otto’s over the Hold spells.

One of the biggest factors is initiative order. Ideally you’d cast Otto’s immediately after the target’s turn. That way everyone else in the party has a chance to affect it before it gets a chance to save. If the target’s turn is immediately after the caster’s, it gets the chance to save before any of the negative effects kick in besides maybe loss of movement. But since there isn’t a mandated action/movement order, even that might not happen.

The only guaranteed effect is that it wastes an action. Which is good, don’t get me wrong, but for a 6th level slot you could potentially Hold 5 humanoids or 2 creatures, and they’d automatically fail Dex saves AND Strength saves AND not even have Attack rolls or reactions. Plus attacks on them have advantage, just like Otto’s, but if the attacks hit they are automatic criticals.

Plus, Charm immunity doesn’t affect the Hold spells.

With all those factors considered, I really can’t see a reason to spend a spell known for a Bard on Otto’s. Not over, say, Eyebite or one of the many amazing 5th level spells.

For a Wizard, sure, I’d put it in my book but it probably wouldn’t be part of the daily loadout unless I knew something was ahead that absolutely, positively needed to Not Have One Action.

[Whit]

the Main difference is auto 1 round or more creature take outs vs a save

[ShikomeKidoMi]

Personally Irresistible dance is 1 round no save, no dex save, can’t move, disadvantage attack’s and also giving your Comrades advantage attack for 1 Round Insane.

You realize that Mental Prison also gives the target disadvantage and your allies advantage on attacks, right?

[Kane0]

Irresistible mental force maze is by far the best, but the one minute casting time makes it pretty useless in combat.

[Whit]

One minute casting time? All of the spells are 1 action.

Now something I didn’t notice that changed my view is

Although Irresistible dance is auto one round no save. They do get to attack at disadvantage along with dex saves . And your allies attack’s at advantage. Then the target spends 1 action to roll save.
Not bad for team jumping on a creature

However, Maze is an auto removal minus 2 creatures per say but what’s amazing is the target needs an intelligence check at DC 20!

Let’s say your target was a lvl 20 wizard with 20 intelligence +5 and ability save +6 that’s +11 which means this awesome spellcaster is removed for 1 round then needs to roll 9 or higher to get out 55%. So imagine what a non 20 intelligence and non intelligence ability bonus would need
Lvl 20 14 intelligence fighter barbarian etc monster that’s +2 to the roll needing a natural 18 to escape. Amazing.

[Dudewithknives]

One minute casting time? All of the spells are 1 action.

Now something I didn’t notice that changed my view is

Although Irresistible dance is auto one round no save. They do get to attack at disadvantage along with dex saves . And your allies attack’s at advantage. Then the target spends 1 action to roll save.
Not bad for team jumping on a creature

However, Maze is an auto removal minus 2 creatures per say but what’s amazing is the target needs an intelligence check at DC 20!

Let’s say your target was a lvl 20 wizard with 20 intelligence +5 and ability save +6 that’s +11 which means this awesome spellcaster is removed for 1 round then needs to roll 9 or higher to get out 55%. So imagine what a non 20 intelligence and non intelligence ability bonus would need
Lvl 20 14 intelligence fighter barbarian etc monster that’s +2 to the roll needing a natural 18 to escape. Amazing.

It is an intelligence check, not an intelligence save, so they do not get to add their proficiency bonus to it.

It is just raw intelligence.

[Whit]

Wow even better

[ShikomeKidoMi]

It is an intelligence check, not an intelligence save, so they do not get to add their proficiency bonus to it. It is just raw intelligence.

Not unless they're Bards, anyway, and those probably didn't prioritize Int.

Maze is nasty.

[Blood of Gaea]

Not unless they're Bards, anyway, and those probably didn't prioritize Int.

Maze is nasty.
And like I mentioned earlier, it completely bypasses Legendary Resistance, which can be pretty amazing when fighting an ancient dragon and a room of minions.