Delay class feature

[sir_argo]

Can you delay taking a class feature until your next level?

Example, if you're a paladin, could you arbitrarily say you're not going to pick a fighting style until 3rd level. Most classes pick an archetype at 3rd... could you delay picking that until 4th?

I think by RAW, the answer is no, but if allowed, would it break anything?

[Requilac]

By RAW of course this is not allowed, but if you wanted to make it a possible house-rule I see nothing game breaking about it. The only time I could imagine that it would be broken is if the class feature was actually negative towards the player, but I have only seen such things in homebrew classes (especially undead ones such as vampires or lich classes). Or perhaps if said character knew they were going to be charmed into fighting an ally very soon, but I have no idea when this case would ever come up. I would be fine with it as a DM, but a little suspicious of why someone would want to to do this. When a person requests for a negative feature It seems to foreshadow that they have something more cunning in mind.

Why would you want to do this though? What is the possible advantage for doing this? Do you have some weird munchkin extreme build that somehow capitalized on this, because otherwise I cannot imagine why this would ever come up.

[DeTess]

Why would you want to do this though? What is the possible advantage for doing this? Do you have some weird munchkin extreme build that somehow capitalized on this, because otherwise I cannot imagine why this would ever come up.

One possible situation I can see is if a class feature forces a permanent choice when you don't know what to pick yet. For example, wether you take duelist or gwf on a paladin basically sets your weapon choice for the rest of the game, and I can imagine wanting to get a bit more of a feeling for a character and campaign before naking that choice.

[Requilac]

One possible situation I can see is if a class feature forces a permanent choice when you don't know what to pick yet. For example, wether you take duelist or gwf on a paladin basically sets your weapon choice for the rest of the game, and I can imagine wanting to get a bit more of a feeling for a character and campaign before naking that choice.

Wouldn’t the better solution to this though be to just let the player change the feature they choose later in the game though? This seems like an odd manner in which to solve this problem.

[DivisibleByZero]

He's probably asking because he wants to delay Magical Secrets to get an higher level spell.

[DeTess]

Wouldn’t the better solution to this though be to just let the player change the feature they choose later in the game though? This seems like an odd manner in which to solve this problem.

I agree, but 'can I delay picking a class feature?' might be easier to get past a strict dm than 'can I change my choice for this feature?'

[Naanomi]

I’d let it happen, with the caveat that you can’t choose except during a long rest (to minimize choosing something to try and solve a situation happening right then)

[Tiadoppler]

On a quest to retrieve a +3 magic sword, but don't know whether it's a 1h or 2h weapon, maybe?

This makes me suspicious of shenanigans, but as long as it's subject to DM approval it probably wouldn't break that much. Grabbing higher level spells than you would otherwise be able to choose is a big thing to watch out for. Don't do that.

[sir_argo]

One possible situation I can see is if a class feature forces a permanent choice when you don't know what to pick yet. For example, wether you take duelist or gwf on a paladin basically sets your weapon choice for the rest of the game, and I can imagine wanting to get a bit more of a feeling for a character and campaign before naking that choice.

It is exactly this. My plan had been to take Medium Armor Master, but we just hit 4th and we're marooned on an island and metal armor is not available from the locals. I don't know how long we're going to be there. If only for a single level, I'd still take Medium Armor Master, but if we're going to be there until 8th or later, it would be better to put that feat off until later. I was thinking about it and wondered, why do I have to pick now? Is there something broken about me putting it off until next level... wait and see where the campaign is headed?


I’d let it happen, with the caveat that you can’t choose except during a long rest (to minimize choosing something to try and solve a situation happening right then)

My intent was that you couldn't take the feature until you make the next level. So in my case, I wouldn't have the opportunity to select my feat until I hit 5th.

[Angelalex242]

It is exactly this. My plan had been to take Medium Armor Master, but we just hit 4th and we're marooned on an island and metal armor is not available from the locals. I don't know how long we're going to be there. If only for a single level, I'd still take Medium Armor Master, but if we're going to be there until 8th or later, it would be better to put that feat off until later. I was thinking about it and wondered, why do I have to pick now? Is there something broken about me putting it off until next level... wait and see where the campaign is headed?

Wow. That sucks for your heavy armor guys. Your Fighter/Paladin/Cleric is hating life. On the other hand, everyone who picked Monk or Barbarian is grinning.

[Tiadoppler]

Does anyone in your party have the ability to craft armor in any way? Taking a light leather armor and trying to improvise a Medium-type or even Heavy-ish armor (with a penalty, or constant repairs needed, or something like that) might work out okay.

Maybe you should ask your DM how long the adventure will be on an armorless island. I'd consider it bad form to start a long plot in which characters are separated from their gear without at least telling the players what to expect. Being captured and losing your gear is one thing, changing the genre to a long-term castaway on a desert island plot could upset people.

[Blood of Gaea]

So long as you're not doing something like delaying an entire subclass, I would allow it on a case-by-case basis.

[Potato_Priest]

He's probably asking because he wants to delay Magical Secrets to get an higher level spell.

The way I read the features, you don't need to do that anyway though, because the spells you learn become bard spells for you and you can swap out bard spells when you level up. It'd be a really marginal advantage to not have magical secrets for a level in exchange for being effectively able to swap more spells around when you level up.

[DivisibleByZero]

The way I read the features, you don't need to do that anyway though, because the spells you learn become bard spells for you and you can swap out bard spells when you level up. It'd be a really marginal advantage to not have magical secrets for a level in exchange for being effectively able to swap more spells around when you level up.

They become bard spells, yes. But only those. So swapping them out later means you can only swap them for other bard spells, which defeats the purpose of the ability.
Basically, if you swap those out, you wasted them.

[Tanarii]

The better path, if your DM doesn't mind giving you some heads up to avoid making choices that would be quite sub-par for their campaign, is just to ask them. Why not ask the DM if you're going to waste the MAM feat if you choose it now, or it would be a good idea to wait until level 8?


Wouldn’t the better solution to this though be to just let the player change the feature they choose later in the game though? This seems like an odd manner in which to solve this problem.
Then the player gets to use the feature one way until they make the switch, then the other way after. They gained the benefit of both choices when it was convenient to. That smacks of trying to game the system a tad.

[Grod_The_Giant]

The better path, if your DM doesn't mind giving you some heads up to avoid making choices that would be quite sub-par for their campaign, is just to ask them. Why not ask the DM if you're going to waste the MAM feat if you choose it now, or it would be a good idea to wait until level 8?
This is probably the best approach, especially since the "wait and see" approach also relies on your DM being nice.


Then the player gets to use the feature one way until they make the switch, then the other way after. They gained the benefit of both choices when it was convenient to. That smacks of trying to game the system a tad.
Eh, I don't think it's that bad, especially for cases of "the campaign worked out differently than I expected." I'd rather allow minor changes to existing characters than have an unhappy player or a new character altogether. You can always assign a cost to the retraining-- time, gold for a teacher, xp, a quest for a special location, etc.

[Coffee_Dragon]

Hmmm... Delay class feature...

Delay
At Xth level, you gain increased control over the timing of your actions in combat. As a free action at the beginning of your turn, you may choose to postpone that turn until later in the round. You choose at which time you want to take your turn - although you may never interrupt someone else's turn - at which point your place in the initiative order is changed to match. You may delay from the end of the initiative order in one round to the start of the initiative order in the next, effectively forgoing your turn for the round.

[Vogie]

It sounds like a great time to suddenly Multiclass.

If I was marooned on an island, you could fall on your knees and beg to the divine, and hopefully you have enough wisdom to multiclass into a caster that can cast "Create Water". (because it's a druid/cleric spell)

You could also suddenly manifest you lineage of Divine Soul Sorcerer... so you can also cast Create Water. Provided you have the right amount of Charisma.

Seriously, water is important.

[Potato_Priest]

Seriously, water is important.

Or, instead of the medium armor master feat, Sir_Argo could take Magic Initiate: Cleric for the same reasons.

[sithlordnergal]

I agree, but 'can I delay picking a class feature?' might be easier to get past a strict dm than 'can I change my choice for this feature?'

This is why I like the AL rule of "You can change anything about your character before you play a game at level 5". It gives players a chance to see if they like things or not.

[Vogie]

Or, instead of the medium armor master feat, Sir_Argo could take Magic Initiate: Cleric for the same reasons.

No, then he'd have to wait until the next ASI to get Medium armor master, in at least 2 levels. By Multiclassing, he's effectively delayed his ASI, and thus the desired feat, exactly one level. To be fair, it could be anything. They could pick a level in fighter for another fighting style, a level in Ranger for Natural Explorer ("When you forage, you find twice as much food as you normally would"), a single level in Hexblade Warlock so they're SAD, et cetera.