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ludomastro
2018-02-25, 08:03 PM
I've heard mostly good things about Legend of the Five Rings but have never played it. I did download the new FFG open beta but that wasn't really what I was looking for. I'm not a fan of the FFG "use-our-proprietary-dice" approach and on top of that, the resolution mechanic felt too ... mushy, for lack of a better word. That said, I'm aware there were 4 prior versions of the game.

So, tell me about the good bad and ugly (if any) of L5R. Of particular interest is the resolution mechanic which sounds simple; however, I've heard three different explanations for how it works. Thus I'm more confused than enlightened.

Pleh
2018-02-25, 08:27 PM
My experience is that it is a very social centric game. There aren't as many monsters as villains and you really kind of always hope to not have to deal with the monsters (not because you can't win, but it's hard to not get slimed in the process).

More often it seems to be about navigating the balance between honor and duty, efficiency and bravery, efficacy and reputation. Not so much what you do, but how.

The system mechanics always felt servicable (we always used d10s, but I don't remember what edition that was). Attribute+skill number of dice rolled, aim for X number of successes, natural 10s explode (keep the success and roll that die again until you stop getting 10s).

FreddyNoNose
2018-02-25, 08:56 PM
I've heard mostly good things about Legend of the Five Rings but have never played it. I did download the new FFG open beta but that wasn't really what I was looking for. I'm not a fan of the FFG "use-our-proprietary-dice" approach and on top of that, the resolution mechanic felt too ... mushy, for lack of a better word. That said, I'm aware there were 4 prior versions of the game.

So, tell me about the good bad and ugly (if any) of L5R. Of particular interest is the resolution mechanic which sounds simple; however, I've heard three different explanations for how it works. Thus I'm more confused than enlightened.

If the game can't sell itself to you, I shouldn't have to.

Max_Killjoy
2018-02-25, 09:56 PM
I've heard mostly good things about Legend of the Five Rings but have never played it. I did download the new FFG open beta but that wasn't really what I was looking for. I'm not a fan of the FFG "use-our-proprietary-dice" approach and on top of that, the resolution mechanic felt too ... mushy, for lack of a better word. That said, I'm aware there were 4 prior versions of the game.

So, tell me about the good bad and ugly (if any) of L5R. Of particular interest is the resolution mechanic which sounds simple; however, I've heard three different explanations for how it works. Thus I'm more confused than enlightened.


Uses d10s.

Target numbers are variable.

For most rolls, you have a stat and a skill, you roll the total of both but only keep a number of dice equal to the stat, and only add those up.

10s "explode", meaning you reroll those dice that came up 10 and were kept, and add the additional results onto the original total, and any die that comes up 10 on the reroll also gets rerolled, and so on.

Florian
2018-02-26, 12:44 AM
So, tell me about the good bad and ugly (if any) of L5R. Of particular interest is the resolution mechanic which sounds simple; however, I've heard three different explanations for how it works. Thus I'm more confused than enlightened.

L5R 1st to 4th ed. use the so called "roll and keep" system, 3rd ed. is a dual system edition and also offers d20 support (which I´d not recommend to use, totally different game feeling).

The RnK system uses a format of xkx (ex: 4k2), detonating how many d10 your roll in total and how many you "keep" and add up, comparing that to a TN (target number). 10s can "explode", so you keep on rolling and adding the result, while a 1 is a botch and you lose that die from the pool for this check. Overall, a very straight bell curve system with some lucky spikes.

Important parts of the system are skill emphasis, raise and free raise. Having one or more emphasis for a skill will negate botches (ex: Kenjutsu (Katana) will ignore the first 1 on a roll with a Katana).
You can always call a raise on a roll for additional effects, voluntarily rolling against a +5 higher TN (example: more damage needs two raises, an additional attack three raises, both combined would clock in at +25 TN). Free raises are just that, a free +5 when trying a specific raise (Example: Scorpion Bushi gain one free raise when trying a Feint maneuver).

The magic system is slot but not level based, with slots and mastery level being dependent on basic rings (example: An earth Shugenja with Earth 3 would start with 3 slots for earth spells and a mastery of 3, making spells from rank 1 to 3 available). Spells need an activation roll and each spell includes a list of possible raises (duration, number of targets, effect and such) as part of their description.
Spells are physical things. A Shugenja needs to have the actual scroll in hand and read the prayer out loud for the magic to happen. No scroll, no magic, that makes magic a bit different than in more traditional fantasy setting.

Generally speaking, you have three basic (Bushi, Courtier, Shugenja) and three optional classes (Ninja, Monk, Ronin), modeled around a 5 level "school". Schools are were characters gain their special abilities, like the aforementioned free raises from and what differentiate a Crane and Scorpion Courtier, even with identical rings and skills.

As someone already mentioned, this is a very social game that pits the characters against a society based on honor, glory and the impossibility of bushido.

Edit: And yeah, I´ve also read the 5E beta version and I don't really like it.

Anonymouswizard
2018-02-26, 06:47 AM
If the game can't sell itself to you, I shouldn't have to.

Honestly the 5e beta makes big changes and removes the awesome parts of the old system in favour of 'buy special dice' (which I hate unless there's a simple normal to special die conversion formula, like Fudge Dice being 1d3-2). Roll and Keep has been changed from 'roll X dice, keep the Y you want, you'll normally pick the highest but don't have to' to 'roll X special dice A and Y special dice B, keep the ones you want'. Except, as far as I can tell, the system seems to be based on you keeping all your dice, as dice also have negative effects (and maybe even entirely negative faces), which are relatively easy to discard.

I like the roll and keep system because it has a simple way to throw a roll (pick your lowest dice) without having that always work. And I own a grand total of one L5R product, the 4e corebook. It is a great setting though, and really sold me on the fantasy Japan elements.

The three class system is also one that appeals to me. There's nothing stopping a Bushi from becoming competent in social situations or Shugenja from learning to wield a sword, it's just that they won't get the bonuses applicable schools give.

It's also easy to have been sold on the setting, but dislike the system once you see it. OP, if that is the case for you can you don't like the descriptions of earlier editions get OA for 3e D&D and 3e L5R, if you do like the descriptions of Roll and Keep get one of the corebooks (I recommend 4e, because it's the most recent and very good, but none of then are getting support).

jindra34
2018-02-26, 07:24 AM
Honestly the 5e beta makes big changes and removes the awesome parts of the old system in favour of 'buy special dice' (which I hate unless there's a simple normal to special die conversion formula, like Fudge Dice being 1d3-2). Roll and Keep has been changed from 'roll X dice, keep the Y you want, you'll normally pick the highest but don't have to' to 'roll X special dice A and Y special dice B, keep the ones you want'. Except, as far as I can tell, the system seems to be based on you keeping all your dice, as dice also have negative effects (and maybe even entirely negative faces), which are relatively easy to discard.

The new FFG system seems to still have you keep a Z number of dice from what I've heard. And its a MANDATORY count of keeps.

Max_Killjoy
2018-02-26, 07:31 AM
Sounds like the 5e Beta is a lot like FFG's goofy-as-hell Star Wars dice system -- which combines so many things I personally hate

* Deeply narrative mechanics. (To the point of several abilities literally being completely separate from the PC, functioning purely as "player powers".)

* Complexity for the sake of seeming clever.

* Character Classes.

* "Talents" gated behind completely unrelated "talent" buys for "balance". (A character of X class must purchase "master cheesemaking" before they can buy "two weapon style", effectively.)

* Proprietary dice. (Naked money grab -- "You can't really play our game without a set of these dice for everyone.")

Pleh
2018-02-26, 07:57 AM
Yeah, I've not heard of this new edition and it doesn't sound great. Try looking back at an older edition or two and see if that shoe fits you better.

People keep praising the simplicity of the 3 classs system, but bear in mind that more important to your character is to which Clan they belong. A Scorpion Shugenja and a Pheonix Shugenja might look very different as their clans have different political agendas and are taught magic in different schools.

Florian
2018-02-26, 10:48 AM
Sounds like the 5e Beta is a lot like FFG's goofy-as-hell Star Wars dice system -- which combines so many things I personally hate

* Deeply narrative mechanics. (To the point of several abilities literally being completely separate from the PC, functional purely as "player powers".)

* Complexity for the sake of seeming clever.

* Character Classes.

* "Talents" gated behind completely unrelated "talent" buys for "balance". (A character of X class must purchase "master cheesemaking" before they can buy "two weapon style", effectively.)

* Proprietary dice. (Naked money grab -- "You can't really play our game without a set of these dice for everyone.")

It´s not so bad this time around. From what I've seen so far, it uses the dice and narrative mechanics, but the advancement tables look more like something you're used to from one of the previous Warhammer games and is geared towards emulating the known five school ranks.

Andor13
2018-02-26, 02:48 PM
My experience with L5R dates back to 1st edition so there may have been some drift, but one notable thing about it is the games lethality. The system was deliberately designed to reflect the bushido ethos that a samurai is always one swords length from death. Hence you have high damage, low hp, and death spiral mechanics.

Now this could be twiddled with, if that's not to your taste. Notably 7th sea used the exact same dice system in a game designed to reflect the swashbuckling movie genre where heros might get knocked out but didn't die unless some cad deliberately cuts their throat.

That having been said, I enjoyed playing in and running the system. It's an evocative system and a rich world with lots of conflict but only a few clear good/bad guys.

LibraryOgre
2018-02-26, 05:01 PM
My experience with L5R dates back to 1st edition so there may have been some drift, but one notable thing about it is the game's lethality. The system was deliberately designed to reflect the bushido ethos that a samurai is always one swords length from death. Hence you have high damage, low hp, and death spiral mechanics.


That's part of what I came to mention... I played 3e and 4e, and both were highly lethal systems. Why are you so polite? Because a sword will kill you, and even the unskilled get lucky.

Faily
2018-02-26, 06:49 PM
That's part of what I came to mention... I played 3e and 4e, and both were highly lethal systems. Why are you so polite? Because a sword will kill you, and even the unskilled get lucky.

Oh so very true. :smallbiggrin:

I would highly suggest the 4th edition of L5R, which streamlined a lot of previous edition problems and is by far the edition that provides the smoothest gameplay.

I am *not* a fan of what I have seen of the Beta of FFG's attempt at the RPG, as a lot of it seems to be weird rules for "this is how you play a roleplaying game". And don't even get me started on the duelling-rules that would let every member in the group "interact" with the duel, because heavens forbid that the spotlight is on one person for a short moment.

Max_Killjoy
2018-02-26, 06:51 PM
Oh so very true. :smallbiggrin:

I would highly suggest the 4th edition of L5R, which streamlined a lot of previous edition problems and is by far the edition that provides the smoothest gameplay.

I am *not* a fan of what I have seen of the Beta of FFG's attempt at the RPG, as a lot of it seems to be weird rules for "this is how you play a roleplaying game". And don't even get me started on the duelling-rules that would let every member in the group "interact" with the duel, because heavens forbid that the spotlight is on one person for a short moment.

FFG's take on "narrative rules".

Faily
2018-02-26, 07:21 PM
FFG's take on "narrative rules".

Narrative Rules in a nutshell.

Honestly though, I've played their SW game and greatly enjoyed it, but I also fully acknowledge that sometimes it goes too far, and not every system works for every kind of game. Having played L5R for a long time and helped build a play-by-post community around it, this FFG L5R RPG that I've seen in Beta is just... bad.

Florian
2018-02-27, 09:53 AM
My experience with L5R dates back to 1st edition so there may have been some drift, but one notable thing about it is the games lethality.

Discarding the D20 thing, the editions have been a very good progressive review, refinement and standardization of the rules, by designers that were not afraid of admitting they were wrong or that their designs didn't work out as planned. That's even more impressive when considering that they managed to not fall into feature or power creep while doing so.


Yeah, I've not heard of this new edition and it doesn't sound great. Try looking back at an older edition or two and see if that shoe fits you better.

People keep praising the simplicity of the 3 classs system, but bear in mind that more important to your character is to which Clan they belong. A Scorpion Shugenja and a Pheonix Shugenja might look very different as their clans have different political agendas and are taught magic in different schools.

This is why reading the gm section is so important for that system. The default assumption is the "limited" game and it´s pretty clear that far, very far, from all available options are to come up in a campaign.


Why are you so polite? Because a sword will kill you, and even the unskilled get lucky.

.... and you never know if someone doesn't have a good and competent duelist at hand that will turn you into shish kebab, someone is trying to goat you into some brash actions or that "drunken" Crab bushi is actually that good in soaking up the damage and wants to curry favor by ridiculing you.

Max_Killjoy
2018-02-27, 10:03 AM
Narrative Rules in a nutshell.

Honestly though, I've played their SW game and greatly enjoyed it, but I also fully acknowledge that sometimes it goes too far, and not every system works for every kind of game. Having played L5R for a long time and helped build a play-by-post community around it, this FFG L5R RPG that I've seen in Beta is just... bad.

To be fair, I'd say they're one extreme take on the broader category of "narrative rules"... I don't know if it's really useful to simply lump FATE, PbtA games, and FFG SW into a single box and assume that all narrative rules are the same.

Max_Killjoy
2018-02-27, 11:17 AM
This is why reading the gm section is so important for that system. The default assumption is the "limited" game and it's pretty clear that far, very far, from all available options are to come up in a campaign.


"Limited game"? Is it literally called that in the book? If so I can just look it up when I get home tonight, if not could you expound?




.... and you never know if someone doesn't have a good and competent duelist at hand that will turn you into shish kebab, someone is trying to goat you into some brash actions or that "drunken" Crab bushi is actually that good in soaking up the damage and wants to curry favor by ridiculing you.


The thing with the dueling specialists and testimony-based "truth" would get so old so fast... I'd probably only be able to play something like a Kitsuki.

Florian
2018-02-27, 11:26 AM
"Limited game"? Is it literally called that in the book? If so I can just look it up when I get home tonight, if not could you expound?

"Limited" and the even more drilled down version of "restrictive", yes. IIRC, they start the whole topic with the problem that L5R is very society based and you'll end up with a problem when you get a Crab Bushi, Scorpion Courtier, Togashi Ise Zume and some no-good drunk Ronin as player characters.

Anonymouswizard
2018-02-27, 11:32 AM
The new FFG system seems to still have you keep a Z number of dice from what I've heard. And its a MANDATORY count of keeps.

I have to be honest, it sounds like the worst of both worlds. Plus overcomplicating a system that, while a tad clunky in some ways, did actually work rather well. Roll and Keep works with summing a subset of the d10s you roll, because no one die is more likely to give you a great result than any other die (barring maufacturing errors). I haven't read the beta rules in ages though, I got to the rolling dice and saw that despite the name it wasn't the roll and keep system.

I mean, Seventh Sea 2e also abandons the old roll and keep system for a system where you group your dice into sets totaling 10+ (called raises), and the number of sets determines how well you do. It's different to roll and keep but it doesn't try to pretend it is the old system. Plus it doesn't require me to spend £30+ on special dice just to run the darn game, I got in 40 d10s when I started seriously collecting World of Darkness and haven't had to buy a single one for a system since.


On the 'three classes' issue, bare in mind that the 'standard' game is, as has been said, limited or single-clan, and while the 4e core book gives several major clans many families each clan only has access to four schools without a certain advantage, generally two bushi (one 'normal' and one more weird), a courtier, and a shujenga. In a full game yes, there are at least the better part of a hundred classes out there, but you can make a decent and viable character for many concepts just by picking a clan and choosing the 'standard' bushi, shujenga, or courtier school.

I still maintain that the Isawa(?) Shujenga School is an extremely boring school that focuses on having no overall weakness, and it's single school technique gives excellence in your preferred element rather than giving an interesting ability.

BWR
2018-02-27, 12:07 PM
The thing with the dueling specialists and testimony-based "truth" would get so old so fast... I'd probably only be able to play something like a Kitsuki.
Different stokes, and all that. Plus the rest of Rokugan doesn't accept the Kitsuki's 'evidence' so you are hardly better off.


Discarding the D20 thing, the editions have been a very good progressive review, refinement and standardization of the rules, by designers that were not afraid of admitting they were wrong or that their designs didn't work out as planned. That's even more impressive when considering that they managed to not fall into feature or power creep while doing so.


3e begs to differ. :smallwink:
It got a bit silly at times. Back when a properly built Hida at rank 4 or 5 could get a TntBH of 100+ and a rank 1 Akodo just ignored most of it because of poor design.



"Limited" and the even more drilled down version of "restrictive", yes. IIRC, they start the whole topic with the problem that L5R is very society based and you'll end up with a problem when you get a Crab Bushi, Scorpion Courtier, Togashi Ise Zume and some no-good drunk Ronin as player characters.

It can work. Depends on what you are trying to do. There is a reason the Emerald/Jade magistrate campaign is so popular - it can work with a wide variety of characters.


I still maintain that the Isawa(?) Shujenga School is an extremely boring school that focuses on having no overall weakness, and it's single school technique gives excellence in your preferred element rather than giving an interesting ability.
In 4e, yes. In 3e you had Void dump on casting and double effect on your Affinity. That was pretty interesting, more so than many others in 3e or 4e.

Anonymouswizard
2018-02-27, 01:26 PM
In 4e, yes. In 3e you had Void dump on casting and double effect on your Affinity. That was pretty interesting, more so than many others in 3e or 4e.

As I've admitted on this thread, I only have experience in 4e. In 4e it's boring and doesn't even have the powerful effects it used to have. It's not that it's bad, it's just that it's just being better at what you do, rather than anything new.

I think in 4e they suffer worse from the fact that the other core Pheonix Shujenga student has the interesting and useful ability to use their slots more flexibly. They're not quite as powerful as the Isawa, but that's a much more flexible ability that can see a lot of use.

Florian
2018-02-27, 03:57 PM
The thing with the dueling specialists and testimony-based "truth" would get so old so fast... I'd probably only be able to play something like a Kitsuki.

Ah, don´t say that. Once you get the hang to the whole logic, it´s actually pretty fun and refreshingly "medieval".


It can work. Depends on what you are trying to do. There is a reason the Emerald/Jade magistrate campaign is so popular - it can work with a wide variety of characters.

It´s still a far cry from what regular D&D players would consider to be an "open" game, as it works within a certain pre-defined framework that, again, deals with the social side of the setting.


I think in 4e they suffer worse from the fact that the other core Pheonix Shujenga student has the interesting and useful ability to use their slots more flexibly. They're not quite as powerful as the Isawa, but that's a much more flexible ability that can see a lot of use.

Isawa Shugenja are really the only ones that can go for Ishiken-Do, making that actually their Schtick. Add to that how the Isawa Tensai works or in which direction advanced paths like Elemental Guard or Inquisitor will take the base Shugenja.

Faily
2018-02-28, 11:52 AM
Discarding the D20 thing, the editions have been a very good progressive review, refinement and standardization of the rules, by designers that were not afraid of admitting they were wrong or that their designs didn't work out as planned. That's even more impressive when considering that they managed to not fall into feature or power creep while doing so.


3rd edition's Art of the Duel would like a word with you.

(no seriously, that book is the worst supplement ever printed for L5R)


"Limited" and the even more drilled down version of "restrictive", yes. IIRC, they start the whole topic with the problem that L5R is very society based and you'll end up with a problem when you get a Crab Bushi, Scorpion Courtier, Togashi Ise Zume and some no-good drunk Ronin as player characters.

Like with any other kind of game, at least in my experience, the GM should state that nature of the game so that players can also prepare accordingly. Last time I ran L5R on tabletop, the campaign was to start at the Topaz Championship (a classic!), and from there the plot would revolve around the Gozoku-conspiracy that had taken over all the power from the Emperor. The PCs were fed info about this stuff over time as they got more involved in it, and at several points they were pretty free on where could go in the story. The group? Bushi from Crab, Crane, Dragon, Lion, Phoenix, and Scorpion. So it is totally possible to have a mix-mash of different clans and backgrounds. I did ban players from starting as ronin (though hinted that the possibility for it to happen in game was certainly there :smallwink: ), and monks were too off-limits as I said that the focus was going to be samurai-drama. Imperials were allowed, but limited. Otherwise, all the clans, great and minor were on the table for them.

Max_Killjoy
2018-02-28, 12:20 PM
3rd edition's Art of the Duel would like a word with you.

(no seriously, that book is the worst supplement ever printed for L5R)


To be fair, wasn't that part of the d20 era that Florian discounted as part of the trend?

Florian
2018-02-28, 01:24 PM
To be fair, wasn't that part of the d20 era that Florian discounted as part of the trend?

It´s good to keep in mind that 3E was the era that WotC still held the license to L5R and forced some things upon AEG, same way that we've seen some World of Darkness stuff crept into Ars Magicka 4E.

Art of the Duel is not even that outrageous, it´s simply badly written, same as Bloodspeaker. Problem are books like Creatures of Rokugan, Magic of Rokugan, of Samurai, of Ninja and Secrets of series - fixed timeline, the dual system approach led to non-sensical decisions (More Nemuranai, PrC > Alternate Path transparency, and so on). (I was more or less "paid" (in gratis products) to write reviews for a while for a major german D&D board back in the heyday, with my focus been on AEG, Malhavoc and Necromancer GameI

Still, 3E introduced some good mechanics that made their way into 4E.

Edit: Actually somehow amusing. While I actually do like Sake and I've some more advanced clues on Japanese society as a whole - we can talk about Sven, one of my best friends and him marrying the daughter of an ambassador - but go into "Immersion". Totally effed up, but a thread bottle of Pacto Navio can actually do them job.

Max_Killjoy
2018-02-28, 01:54 PM
It´s good to keep in mind that 3E was the era that WotC still held the license to L5R and forced some things upon AEG, same way that we've seen some World of Darkness stuff crept into Ars Magicka 4E.

Art of the Duel is not even that outrageous, it´s simply badly written, same as Bloodspeaker. Problem are books like Creatures of Rokugan, Magic of Rokugan, of Samurai, of Ninja and Secrets of series - fixed timeline, the dual system approach led to non-sensical decisions (More Nemuranai, PrC > Alternate Path transparency, and so on). (I was more or less "paid" (in gratis products) to write reviews for a while for a major german D&D board back in the heyday, with my focus been on AEG, Malhavoc and Necromancer GameI

Still, 3E introduced some good mechanics that made their way into 4E.

Edit: Actually somehow amusing. While I actually do like Sake and I've some more advanced clues on Japanese society as a whole - we can talk about Sven, one of my best friends and him marrying the daughter of an ambassador - but go into "Immersion". Totally effed up, but a thread bottle of Pacto Navio can actually do them job.

I've found that there are some aspects of real, historical Japanese culture that have to be utterly "forgotten" if one isn't to have serious "WTF?" moments reading through the L5R passages on culture. It's really more "how the west views Japanese historical culture through the lens of Japanese mythmaking over the last ~150 years about Japanese history before that date".

LibraryOgre
2018-02-28, 02:00 PM
It´s good to keep in mind that 3E was the era that WotC still held the license to L5R and forced some things upon AEG, same way that we've seen some World of Darkness stuff crept into Ars Magicka 4E.


[Nitpicking: It was ArM 3e that included WoD elements; 4e neatly removed them, either ignoring things like True Reason, or with lines of "Oh, and there were some vampire Tremere, but the House found out and killed them."]

Faily
2018-02-28, 03:06 PM
It´s good to keep in mind that 3E was the era that WotC still held the license to L5R and forced some things upon AEG, same way that we've seen some World of Darkness stuff crept into Ars Magicka 4E.

Art of the Duel is not even that outrageous, it´s simply badly written, same as Bloodspeaker. Problem are books like Creatures of Rokugan, Magic of Rokugan, of Samurai, of Ninja and Secrets of series - fixed timeline, the dual system approach led to non-sensical decisions (More Nemuranai, PrC > Alternate Path transparency, and so on). (I was more or less "paid" (in gratis products) to write reviews for a while for a major german D&D board back in the heyday, with my focus been on AEG, Malhavoc and Necromancer GameI

Still, 3E introduced some good mechanics that made their way into 4E.

Edit: Actually somehow amusing. While I actually do like Sake and I've some more advanced clues on Japanese society as a whole - we can talk about Sven, one of my best friends and him marrying the daughter of an ambassador - but go into "Immersion". Totally effed up, but a thread bottle of Pacto Navio can actually do them job.

Art of the Duel is 3E and was not part of the dual-system books that came from Wizards, as that was 2E.

Magic of Rokugan, Way of the Samurai/ Ninja/Shugenja/Open Hand, and the Secrets of [clan] are 2E, and also came with d20 rules.

While L5R mostly improved between editions, I would say the massive imbalance and strange mechanics of 3E made it worse than 2E.

Just play 4th edition L5R. It's a very nice system.

Florian
2018-02-28, 11:16 PM
[Nitpicking]

It´s quite possible that our version numbers don't match up. German localization is quite famous for also incorporating FAQs and error corrections, as well as expanding upon the source material. That's most apparent with Shadowrun and Call of Cthulhu, as what I have here now is what the regular english reader will get in the next edition, based on what our companies did with it.

Edit: Grab my copy of Orient Express and die in shame compared to your initial offering.

ludomastro
2018-03-01, 10:33 AM
Thanks, folks. It sounds like a game I would enjoy if I can find a reasonably priced copy. Sadly, I’m unlikely to run it based on my current group. They don’t like the social part of role playing very much.

Pleh
2018-03-01, 10:41 AM
Thanks, folks. It sounds like a game I would enjoy if I can find a reasonably priced copy. Sadly, I’m unlikely to run it based on my current group. They don’t like the social part of role playing very much.

Fair enough. It is a social heavy game, though the sessions I played made me feel like they do Social Encounters much better than most other systems.

I would consider the possibility that your group might not so much dislike Social games as much as they might not have ever had a really good one before.

ludomastro
2018-03-01, 11:14 AM
Fair enough. It is a social heavy game, though the sessions I played made me feel like they do Social Encounters much better than most other systems.

I would consider the possibility that your group might not so much dislike Social games as much as they might not have ever had a really good one before.

Could be they haven’t - though my 14 year old isn’t terribly talkative to begin with and my wife thinks she’s bad at the social stuff. (She’s not, but I haven’t been able to convince her of that.)

What do you feel makes the system good at social encounters?

Faily
2018-03-01, 11:25 AM
Could be they haven’t - though my 14 year old isn’t terribly talkative to begin with and my wife thinks she’s bad at the social stuff. (She’s not, but I haven’t been able to convince her of that.)

What do you feel makes the system good at social encounters?


Courtier-techniques, mostly, on the mechanical side. At least for me. Since some of them can actually produce certain effects and the like (Doji Courtier can learn what someone is in need of or would like, Bayushi Courtier learns all the dirt you have, etc).

On less crunchy side, the fact that the setting is so heavily geared towards social expectations is what makes it a very social game, and one that forces people more to solve problems without the use of violence. While I've certainly played in scenarios where the solution was to beat the bad guy up, more often than not the solution is non-violence. But this also relies completely on what sort of game you are playing. You can easily do hack-n-slash monsters in L5R by having most of the stuff happening at The Wall and PCs fighting Shadowlands monsters, but that is only a small part of Rokugan and not a reflection of the setting as a whole.

LibraryOgre
2018-03-01, 01:20 PM
It´s quite possible that our version numbers don't match up. German localization is quite famous for also incorporating FAQs and error corrections, as well as expanding upon the source material. That's most apparent with Shadowrun and Call of Cthulhu, as what I have here now is what the regular english reader will get in the next edition, based on what our companies did with it.

Edit: Grab my copy of Orient Express and die in shame compared to your initial offering.

Interesting... I hadn't considered that for translations.