[Drop Dead Studios] Time Handbook Open Beta- Alternate Timeline

[Ssalarn]

Hey everyone! I'm happy to announce that we're (finally!) ready to release the beta for the new Time Handbook for Spheres of Power. You can check it out here (https://docs.google.com/document/d/1_d9TyFzyZ04I5mIUhUwFzgK6dsUxZl6006-PCgwAOcs/edit?usp=sharing)! For anyone unfamiliar with the base Time sphere that this expands on, you can find it here (http://spheresofpower.wikidot.com/time).

We'll be running this playtest a little differently than we have in the past. Due to my current work schedule, I'm only going to be able to process feedback and post updates about once a week (probably Sundays), so if it takes a bit for something you comment on to be acted upon, please be patient and I'll do my best to make sure everything gets appropriately addressed.

Enjoy!

[Mezzaluna]

I've looked over all the talents so far, and I'm kinda apprehensive about the design direction it's going in.

So many of the effects are just... things that mechanically have nothing to do with the time sphere, given a time-flavored coat of paint. Time magic has a lot of potential for interesting mechanics, and I think this playtest was too conservative and fell back on abilities that don't take proper advantage of the theme.

The sort of grab-bag of arbitrary mechanics that most of the non-advanced talents offer just dilutes Time Sphere's identity.

Accelerated Healing is already an alteration talent (Vitality, though Accelerated Healing is stronger), and really it should just be a life sphere talent.
Broken Time, Delayed Healing and Lethargy are just normal debuffs you could just as easily see in the Fate, Death, or Alteration spheres (among others).

Second Chance, while having its own niche, has huge overlap with Fate sphere's Bless.

Timeline Bridge similarly feels like it could just have easily been a Fate Sphere effect.

The rest of the normal talents are in theme, but besides Time Clone, none of them are especially exciting options that give the Time sphere a stronger identity.
I know that conventional pop-culture style time magic can be pretty hard to implement in a tabletop in a way that doesn't disrupt tabletop games too heavily, but it just overall feels like the design space wasn't really explored.

Even if a lot of the exciting time magic abilities might end up having to go into Advanced Talents, they're something I'd want to see.

[Mehangel]

I thought I would offer suggestions for the Time Handbook (which can take the form of talents, feats, or advanced talents):

Temporal Rewind (Requires the Retry talent. Rewinds time back 1 minute per CL; Obviously an advanced talent)
Temporal Reload (http://powerlisting.wikia.com/wiki/Temporal_Reload) (a greater version of Temporal Rewind, except that when you use the advanced talent you set a save point, which you can return to as an immediate action.)
Time Energy Generation (http://powerlisting.wikia.com/wiki/Time_Energy_Generation) (probably best added as a talent or feat).
Cognitive Development: Adds or removes bonuses/penalties to mental ability scores (probably best added as a feat or as an update to the Age talent).
Deteriorate: Deals damage to objects, staggers constructs and undead.
Object Displacement: When you target an unattended object with the Eject talent, you may spend an additional spell point to maintain the target displaced from time for 1 hour per caster level. When dismissed, the object appears within close range of your current position. (probably best added as a feat)

[khadgar567]

I rely like the re train talents and dot for dot sake

[EldritchWeaver]

Deteriorate: Deals damage to objects, staggers constructs and undead.
Object Displacement: When you target an unattended object with the Eject talent, you may spend an additional spell point to maintain the target displaced from time for 1 hour per caster level. When dismissed, the object appears within close range of your current position. (probably best added as a feat)

Why doesn't Deteriorate affect living beings? Why should Object Displacement be a feat?

[Mehangel]

Why doesn't Deteriorate affect living beings?
I imagined it working like a sort of rust/erosion talent, effectively Age (time) for objects and creatures not otherwise subject to aging penalties.

Why should Object Displacement be a feat?
Because it requires the Eject talent (thus not appropriate to be a basic talent), and doesn't have alot of potential to be world-changing/game-breaking (thus not appropriate to be an advanced talent).

[EldritchWeaver]

Because it requires the Eject talent (thus not appropriate to be a basic talent), and doesn't have alot of potential to be world-changing/game-breaking (thus not appropriate to be an advanced talent).

Then the better method is to update Eject to be taken twice.

[AlienFromBeyond]

Is the lack of feats intentional, or will they be coming soon in the future? A handbook without any feats feels incomplete to me frankly.

[meat_shield]

Is the lack of feats intentional, or will they be coming soon in the future? A handbook without any feats feels incomplete to me frankly.

I was going to make the same comment - Time sphere needs some feats and items as well.

[Ssalarn]

Is the lack of feats intentional, or will they be coming soon in the future? A handbook without any feats feels incomplete to me frankly.

We've got some reserved space for feats, items, or other options, but we're leaving some time before adding to make sure we're focusing efforts on the kind of mechanics the largest number of people are looking for. We realize that there is a lot of potential in the concept of Time, but that there's a balance that needs to be struck so the options can actually be used at a majority of tables without needing the campaign to be entirely built around it or the options being overly difficult to implement smoothly, so we're kind of using that word count buffer to slowly adjust for that with options that meet player's wants and needs outside of the basic play and sphere expansion options.

[Cybershark]

We've got some reserved space for feats, items, or other options, but we're leaving some time before adding to make sure we're focusing efforts on the kind of mechanics the largest number of people are looking for. We realize that there is a lot of potential in the concept of Time, but that there's a balance that needs to be struck so the options can actually be used at a majority of tables without needing the campaign to be entirely built around it or the options being overly difficult to implement smoothly, so we're kind of using that word count buffer to slowly adjust for that with options that meet player's wants and needs outside of the basic play and sphere expansion options.

I'm skimming over the Time Handbook right now. I was surprised that there's only one talent that grants a +1/2 CL bonus to initiative. Would it be possible to implement some Initiative-manipulating talents into the Time handbook? For example, a talent that swaps the result of two initiative rolls, or inflicts a penalty to someone's initiative roll- if it would reduce their initiative result to less than somebody else's, the target would act later in the round, something of that sort? I agree with Mezzaluna: Time sphere could do with a stronger identity.

[EarthSeraphEdna]

Even if a lot of the exciting time magic abilities might end up having to go into Advanced Talents, they're something I'd want to see.

I have to echo this sentiment. The talents here do not feel particularly chronomantic or chronokinetic. Even comparing them to Paizo or, yes, Dreamscarred psionic options, they are still lacking in basic "time magic" tricks such as looking into the past of an area (e.g. sensitivity to psychic impressions), throwing someone forward in time for a few moments (e.g. time hop), or the iconic time stop.

[Eldaran]

throwing someone forward in time for a few moments (e.g. time hop)

That's in the base sphere... It's a talent called Eject.

[khadgar567]

I have to echo this sentiment. The talents here do not feel particularly chronomantic or chronokinetic. Even comparing them to Paizo or, yes, Dreamscarred psionic options, they are still lacking in basic "time magic" tricks such as looking into the past of an area (e.g. sensitivity to psychic impressions), throwing someone forward in time for a few moments (e.g. time hop), or the iconic time stop.
Kinda agreed with edna here. Currently sop lacks the deffinet options and lot of books lack flavorful good options like i dont know pulling prince of persia on encounters or sycrocity power from constantine and since we got akashic and psionic support why not add akasha to crestion sphere

[EarthSeraphEdna]

That's in the base sphere... It's a talent called Eject.

Retract that complaint and replace it with "shorten enemies' duration-based effects."

[Ssalarn]

... lacking in basic "time magic" tricks such as looking into the past of an area (e.g. sensitivity to psychic impressions), throwing someone forward in time for a few moments (e.g. time hop), or the iconic time stop.

Virtually all of that except for the looking into the past (which is more of a Divination ability) is in the base sphere. Time Freeze is SoP time stop and Eject kicks people out of combat for rounds per caster level.



Retract that complaint and replace it with "shorten enemies' duration-based effects."

That also already exists in the base sphere, it's called Fast Time.

[EldritchWeaver]

It seems prudent to suggest this:

Before you post anything about missing capabilities, please check that the current available talents do not cover them already.

[Ssalarn]

It seems prudent to suggest this:

Before you post anything about missing capabilities, please check that the current available talents do not cover them already.

To assist in facilitating this suggestion,I've included a link to the base sphere in the OP.

[Mezzaluna]

Okay, after some thinking on the sorts of things I'd expect out of time sphere, here are a few of my own thoughts:

1) Some sort of fix to the mechanics of Time Freeze: stopping time is one of the most iconic abilities of time magic, and while the existing core talent is flavorful, I've barely seen any situations where it could see use.
Mainly is the danger of it backfiring on you entirely because of how each creature, including allies, makes their own saving throw - you could freeze all your allies while all your enemies make the save. The inconsistency there makes it too chaotic to use unless you're frequently on your own in fights.

2) The biggest thing I think Time Sphere can get in terms of reasonable utility is the ability to use its talents on objects.

This adds new utility dimensions to a lot of talents that were previously mainly for battle.
-Haste to make cooking or timers to go by faster
-Slow to make acids act slower, make a specific object fall or break apart slower, etc
-Age to make plants grow into trees temporarily, or shrink them into sprouts*
-Age to make wine turn better, or things decay away*
-Eject to remove objects from the time stream until you need them*
-A localized stasis ability that only freezes a single object in place and increases its hardness, turning an object with size depending on CL into something like an immovable rod

I'm not sure how much each one warrants an individual talent, or could be merged together or into an existing one, but I think there's a lot of potential there.

*'Target' is a bit vague and maybe you can already do this with the core sphere, but if it was already possible then a sidebar clarifying it would be good

3) Expanded, more flexible use for existing talents:
-Retry is very expensive, and for good reason: but what if there was a Lesser Retry (an 'undo') for one spell point that only undid a single action within the last turn?
--More interestingly, this can also expand to out of combat to undo situations regarding unattended objects, like resetting a shattered vase that just fell off the shelf back to its about-to-fall position and putting all the water back in, or returning a triggered trap to its original state

-Improved Eject: An unattended object or willing target could maybe be sent forward minutes or even hours per level, with you being able to specify the exact interval. Send a hungry ally two and a half hours forward to dinner time, or be evil and send a bomb forward in time to appear right in the middle of a noble banquet. This doesn't feel like it creates any dramatic opportunities that distant/unseen teleport in warp sphere couldn't.

4) Advanced Talents
Time travel - it could even have a CL20 prerequisite if it's never intended for serious use, but I think the fact it's missing entirely is a bit of an elephant in the room. Even if it's in a limited form, it's something a lot of people would want to see.

[EarthSeraphEdna]

Virtually all of that except for the looking into the past (which is more of a Divination ability) is in the base sphere. Time Freeze is SoP time stop and Eject kicks people out of combat for rounds per caster level.

I specifically suggested "looking into the past" because that is something Divination still does not cover. The Divination handbook has already published, so there is no opportunity to go back and reinsert that.


Time Freeze is SoP time stop

No, it very much is not. It is not quite time stop, something that could very well be an advanced talent. In fact, as covered above, Time Freeze is not a very good talent at all.


That also already exists in the base sphere, it's called Fast Time.

This one, I will concede to. I have not been on the metaphorical ball.

[Mehangel]

I specifically suggested "looking into the past" because that is something Divination still does not cover. The Divination handbook has already published, so there is no opportunity to go back and reinsert that.

Divine Time (http://spheresofpower.wikidot.com/divination#toc37), the alternate divination does look into the past, so in a sense it is already covered.

[EarthSeraphEdna]

Divine Time (http://spheresofpower.wikidot.com/divination#toc37), the alternate divination does look into the past, so in a sense it is already covered.

It is a little on the weak side (and rightfully so, being an alternate divination). Something that could go back days or weeks would be nice, along with more information. Sensitivity to psychic impressions covers a wide span, for comparison.

Given that the Time sphere handbook as it currently stands is throwing in effects from everywhere, I do not see why a more dedicated postcognition effect would be out of line.

[EarthSeraphEdna]

On second thought, I will retract all suggestions and stay out of this due to a lack of insight, save for my comment on Improved After Image, which could use a bit of a tweak due to the swift action situation.

[Cybershark]

On the topic of compatibility between Fracture and Coiled Blade, here is a list of things each archetype alters or replaces.

Coiled Blade: Bonus Feats at 1st, 4th, 8th, 12th, 16th, and 20th and Armor Training. You can read it here: http://spheresofpower.wikidot.com/coiled-blade

Fracture: Heavy Armor, Shield proficiencies, Bonus Feats at 6th, 10th, and 20th level. It's in the Time handbook document.

Notice that Coiled Blade gains a martial tradition without altering proficiencies. Since it says it does not alter proficiencies, it's easy enough to see that you get the Tradition on top of your Fighter proficiencies.

Were it not for the 20th level bonus feat also being replaced by Fracture (i personally think this should replace Weapon Mastery, as it's a lot more like a capstone ability than a bonus feat), Coiled Blade and Fracture would be compatible, because Fracture alters proficiencies that the Coiled Blade does not touch.

Now see there's the issue of a weird multiclassing, like taking a level in a class that already has a tradition and locks your proficiencies to light armor/simple weapons/bucklers, and not gaining the proficiencies from the Fighter level. Ssalarn, how does the following situation resolve itself?



Alice takes her 1st level in a class that has a martial tradition. Her proficiencies are set to Light Armor, Bucklers, and Simple Weapons along with whatever (discipline) talents she has. She decides she wants to take her 2nd level in a Fighter (Fracture). Since this rule exists in the Martial Tradition section:

"Once a character has gained a martial tradition, they do not gain additional proficiencies for multiclassing, and characters who have already gained proficiencies from a class cannot benefit from martial traditions gained through multiclassing."

Would Alice therefore be unable to gain the Fracture archetype, since she does not gain the proficiencies from the Fighter class that Fracture requires to trade away. Do the "virtual" proficiencies still count for the purpose of being traded away by an archetype, or is Alice SOL and better off being a Coiled Blade

[Nyaa]

Clockstopper

This saddens Clockblocker.

[Sukebe]

I posted this in the document itself but I want to post it here as well:

I would really like to see more content for the classes in Spheres of Power. Right now this book is looking more like a Champions of the Spheres product than a SoP product. That is not to say I don't crave CotS products, I definitely do, I just don't want it to take the place of one of the sphere handbooks.

I personally would like to see at least : 1 archetype for one of the full caster classes introduced in SoP (though 1 archetype for each would be even better) and 1 or more new Incater specializations.

I would also like to see less mixing of other sphere abilities into the archetypes and talents. warp shows up far to often in this book when the focus is supposed to be on the time sphere.

[EldritchWeaver]

So the big question Ssalarn likely is going to have: Would you be content, if the existing remains, but high-caster options are added? Or do you want some content moved into a CotS HB as well?

[Sukebe]

So the big question Ssalarn likely is going to have: Would you be content, if the existing remains, but high-caster options are added? Or do you want some content moved into a CotS HB as well?

Personally I would be happy if the content I asked for were added. As I said, I do actually like the champions content as long as it doesn't take the place of SoP content.

If you know anyone who does not have Spheres of Might and was not interested in it I would talk to them about it though as the amount of champion content will still be pretty high

[A.J.Gibson]

I wouldn't mind seeing a Full-CL Time archetype myself (or adjusting the Symbiat to be one), but that said, writing Time talents is damned hard. Most time effects are potentially game breaking, and building something around that is inviting the ban hammer from the GM.

[mrguymiah]

Ssalarn, I want to start by thanking you for your hard work on this.

That being said, I feel the book focuses too much on things _besides_ the Time Sphere. Of the 25 pages, only 3.5 of them are for talents. There are 11 basic and 5 advanced. While I recognize that there is more to make it compatible with as other books have added classes and mechanics, it seems like more effort is spent fitting into those than creating something of its own.

Rather than just make complaints, here's what suggestions I have:
Basic Talents:
Opinion Reset - Spend a spell point and undo an out of combat diplomacy, intimidate, or bluff check.
[Essentially, you turn back the clock a moment so that you can make another attempt if things didn't go the way you wanted. Perhaps have a limit of no more than 1 (3 if it costs 2 spell points. They're already paying) additional attempts.]

Advanced Talents:
Age Control - CL15 - A permanent version of the Age talent.
[This is mostly a flavorful thing so that wizards don't need to become liches for their immortality, and already has precedence with the Elixir of Immortality in Alchemist Sphere available at lvl 10. The only difference being that the EoI requires 50k gp per application to return to young. So raising the level requirement to do it for free (or otherwise introducing a cost) does not seem unreasonable.]

Time in a Bottle - CL7 (10?), Death Sphere - Killing a creature of the same type (Humanoid in most cases) allows you to steal a fraction of their remaining natural lifespan.
[Similar to above, but a less stable, more morally ambiguous version.]

[meat_shield]

Glad to hear that feats, items, ect are going to make an appearance. In regards to the more archtypes - not sure there was much to do here. Symbiat got one, HW got a new tradition, Incanter is an odd class to give an archtype to due to specializations which allow a lot of flexibility already. Symbiat fits the best IMO though a case could be made for Fey Adept or Thaumaturge archtypes that are Time focused.

As for the talents - I do not like the new Haste and Slow options as I can't see me ever really using the new Haste or Slow option especially at later levels. I do like the direction though, I wanted to see more options for both Haste and Slow. Any easy solution would be increase the movement speed granted by Haste to some scaling numeric value (similar to some of the Fate talents and how they change the area of your Consecrations, IE Exalted Consecration). You could do the same to the attack bonus or penalty (for slow), allow haste to bump you up above the next person in initiative (or move targets below the next person in initiative - and maybe a way to move them further down /w further spell points or talent investment). There is a lot here you could do to the core Haste/Slow talents to give other
options if someone wants to really focus on them. Aside from that options around the existing talents like Fast Time (instead of rounds what about having a way to do minutes, hours or days via higher CL, more spell points, additional talents/advanced talents, ect ? Might add a MSB chk to this though). Shift Time also has a lot of options - maybe a way to down grade the action lost, if they take a standard they give up a move next turn, banking "actions" stolen /w steal time. Just some options and ideas I had -

[khadgar567]

agreed with meat_shield i to like to see some updated haste talents with option to do more then single action worth of action like ability to pull two turns worth of action by spending 5 spell points. or slowing that raging barbarian to no action state so your rogue can cup de grace him without fear of getting smashed in to fine rogue paste.

[Danielxxi]

I posted this in the document itself but I want to post it here as well:

I would really like to see more content for the classes in Spheres of Power. Right now this book is looking more like a Champions of the Spheres product than a SoP product. That is not to say I don't crave CotS products, I definitely do, I just don't want it to take the place of one of the sphere handbooks.

I personally would like to see at least : 1 archetype for one of the full caster classes introduced in SoP (though 1 archetype for each would be even better) and 1 or more new Incater specializations.

I would also like to see less mixing of other sphere abilities into the archetypes and talents. warp shows up far to often in this book when the focus is supposed to be on the time sphere.

This is exactly what I think when I read the archetype section of the document.

This is a book for casters, and it was very disappointing to find only archetypes for non casters.
There are:
0 High – Casters
1 Medium-Caster
2 Low-Caster
6 Non casters

Mosts of this archetypes are ok, but I think that this is not the book for them.

In my group we coincide that the classes more associated with time magic are Spheres Oracles, Sphere wizards and incanters. And there must be at least options for two of them.

The question here is: Why do yuo thins that, for example, a figther is more related with time magic than an oracle or an incanter?

I think that most of the archetypes in a book about time magic should be for high o medium casters.



Ssalarn, I want to start by thanking you for your hard work on this.
…

Advanced Talents:
Age Control - CL15 - A permanent version of the Age talent.
[This is mostly a flavorful thing so that wizards don't need to become liches for their immortality, and already has precedence with the Elixir of Immortality in Alchemist Sphere available at lvl 10. The only difference being that the EoI requires 50k gp per application to return to young. So raising the level requirement to do it for free (or otherwise introducing a cost) does not seem unreasonable.]


There are options at least for alchemist, oracles, wizards, and witch to do this. Although most of
them at level 20, it would be nice to have something like this at CL 15.

[stack]

Every new talent is an option for the full casters, in one respect. I would not want to see archetypes for the sake of checking off boxes. In fact, a few of the current archetypes seem to be a bit of a stretch.

[meemaas]

Every new talent is an option for the full casters, in one respect. I would not want to see archetypes for the sake of checking off boxes. In fact, a few of the current archetypes seem to be a bit of a stretch.

Honestly, what would you give a Full Caster that isn't already better off being a talent (if it isn't already) anyways? I for one like what is there, but I think that the people that are complaining about a lack of full casting archetypes should be recommending their ideas for them instead of complaining.

[EldritchWeaver]

I think that the people that are complaining about a lack of full casting archetypes should be recommending their ideas for them instead of complaining.

That's kinda like saying that people who dislike the food the cook in a restaurant provided to them have to give (improved) recipes in order to be allowed to complain.

[meemaas]

That's kinda like saying that people who dislike the food the cook in a restaurant provided to them have to give (improved) recipes in order to be allowed to complain.

I'm making this recommendation because the reason for no Full Caster archetype is likely the fact that the Author couldn't come up with one that was both relevant and thematic, with abilities that deserve to be class features instead of talents. I mean, I could be wrong, but that's likely it. Ssalarn is a good author, and his work has been exemplary so far, so I trust that if he had a good concept for a Full Caster archetype, he would have written it already.

As that is not the case, our only recourse is to bounce our own ideas towards him, hoping something sticks and gives him the inspiration he needs.

[khadgar567]

I'm making this recommendation because the reason for no Full Caster archetype is likely the fact that the Author couldn't come up with one that was both relevant and thematic, with abilities that deserve to be class features instead of talents. I mean, I could be wrong, but that's likely it. Ssalarn is a good author, and his work has been exemplary so far, so I trust that if he had a good concept for a Full Caster archetype, he would have written it already.

As that is not the case, our only recourse is to bounce our own ideas towards him, hoping something sticks and gives him the inspiration he needs.
gotta agree with you there but the problem is a lot of home brewers cant word their ideas same style as Ssalarn or other pros b creating spheres and talents harder then you think as you gonna need to balance them so perfectly that you have no perfect only road to munckinville. c even you create the sphere there in no way you can get some peach data because the whole community is still prefer to you use the same old spell list the wizard of coast pooped when they first founded by Gary gygax.

[master4sword]

I know my players were hoping to see an attack-action-friendly Haste talent, ever since they realized that Haste doesn't provide extra attacks to characters using most Spheres of Might content. Perhaps a talent that adds an extra attack during an attack action (and of course specifies that the extra attack is not an attack action for the purposes of everything, much like how sphere TWF works)?

Improved Age could be a fun advanced talent (as the Age base talent, but permanent for extra spell points - permanently age or de-age someone).


Also, where's Time Stop as an advanced talent?

[khadgar567]

How about true memory using mind and time sphere to perfectly recall the memory you have or casted on target with cost like 5 points as advance talent since we have refrain and greater refrain we kinda need a talent to remember the old memories so we can regrab the old skills.

[Ssalarn]

Personally I would be happy if the content I asked for were added. As I said, I do actually like the champions content as long as it doesn't take the place of SoP content.

If you know anyone who does not have Spheres of Might and was not interested in it I would talk to them about it though as the amount of champion content will still be pretty high


I'm looking into adding a couple more archetypes covering more of the full casters, but those tend to be the classes that are either hardest to archetype or least need it, so we're looking for good needs that we can meet so we aren't just throwing in materials for the sake of throwing in materials.. I'm also hoping to drop in a few other specfic requests (a talent for aging objects, some tweaks to time clone, feats, and a couple other items), so I'm hoping I can push that update out before next week. Unfortunately I wasn't able to run an update over the weekend as anticipated, largely due to not having a single free minute.


I wouldn't mind seeing a Full-CL Time archetype myself (or adjusting the Symbiat to be one), but that said, writing Time talents is damned hard. Most time effects are potentially game breaking, and building something around that is inviting the ban hammer from the GM.

Time is a really interesting sphere. One of the things I've spent a lot of time (:smallbiggrin:) discussing with Adam and certain other members of the team is kind of the end goal of this book, and what we want to do with it. There's a lot of things you could do with Time that would be really cool... and would never get used at the table because they'd invoke serious GM wrath. As cool as big rewind powers (days/years/months but really even something as short as an hour) can be, they're also the kinds of things where the GM or another player might feel inclined to clobber you with a CRB over because you literally just erased some to all of the night's session, for example. We really want a book that's going to be used, and we thought that one of the best ways of making sure that's the case is to let people dabble in Time with all kinds of different builds and concepts; champion classes, class options, Dr. Who inspired traditions and archetypes, etc.

[Kaouse]

I would like to note that my group plays with a character using a third party Time Domain, which allows them to, once per week, turn back time for 1 combat round or 1 non-combat minute. It's certainly seen it's fair set of use, that's for sure. It's really useful as an "Oh Shi-" ability, and can really help negate some awful rolls. Plus, the once per week restriction really keeps it from being spammed every session, allowing the plot to progress.

[A.J.Gibson]

Also, where's Time Stop as an advanced talent?

Time Stop is very strong, even by advanced talent standards. The only way it can be balanced is if you can only take limited actions only, like only being able to buff yourself. Once you've done that, however, it's easier to write the talent as 'you can do X hyper fast' and reflavor it as a time stop. It ends up being more balanced and you can make it more accessible at low level.

[unseenmage]

...

Also, where's Time Stop as an advanced talent?

While I'm busy trying to find the spheres version of the old 3.x web content Teleeport Through Time (http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/pg/20030409b) and the associated Create Time Portal feat...

[Scowling Dragon]

How about some official "Travel through Time" Talents?

[digiman619]

How about some official "Travel through Time" Talents?
Personally, I think that if that sort of time travel shows up, it'll be an incantation rather than a talent, even an advanced one.

[khadgar567]

Personally, I think that if that sort of time travel shows up, it'll be an incantation rather than a talent, even an advanced one.
agreed i dont want carbon skin nanotube armor on my incanter just because he can time travel to akiton for breakfast.

[The Vagabond]

I'm looking into adding a couple more archetypes covering more of the full casters, but those tend to be the classes that are either hardest to archetype or least need it, so we're looking for good needs that we can meet so we aren't just throwing in materials for the sake of throwing in materials.. I'm also hoping to drop in a few other specfic requests (a talent for aging objects, some tweaks to time clone, feats, and a couple other items), so I'm hoping I can push that update out before next week. Unfortunately I wasn't able to run an update over the weekend as anticipated, largely due to not having a single free minute.

Time is a really interesting sphere. One of the things I've spent a lot of time (:smallbiggrin:) discussing with Adam and certain other members of the team is kind of the end goal of this book, and what we want to do with it. There's a lot of things you could do with Time that would be really cool... and would never get used at the table because they'd invoke serious GM wrath. As cool as big rewind powers (days/years/months but really even something as short as an hour) can be, they're also the kinds of things where the GM or another player might feel inclined to clobber you with a CRB over because you literally just erased some to all of the night's session, for example. We really want a book that's going to be used, and we thought that one of the best ways of making sure that's the case is to let people dabble in Time with all kinds of different builds and concepts; champion classes, class options, Dr. Who inspired traditions and archetypes, etc.
I suppose a question is "What is Time" before you do this stuff.

For me, Tabletop RPG's, Video Games, and honestly most non-time-travel media uses what I like to call a "Watershed" type of time. That is to say, the past has happened, and the future will happen, but two different courses of events can lead to the same moment in time. It's a weird concept that I haven't fully solidified, but I had some ideas.
You travel back in time to kill hitler, you remain.
Your timeline is erased, you remain if you're not in that section as individuals are removed from time.
Think of time as a subway map that branches and twists: You can take two routes to reach your destination, but the destination can also be the same both ways.
In addition, the past can change seemingly suddenly as well. If you've watched something written by the seat of its pants, or perhaps had a major retcorn, this is what happens when inconsistencies in writings occur.
Yesterday is fluid, but so is tomorrow. Parallel universes split and combine like paths, all leading forward. You rarely can fight that.

One thing I will say about the previous playtest, it had some interesting Sphere archetypes. Most of the talents were pretty poor, and honestly it wasn't that great, but the Self-Taught tradition was absolutely amazing, and I rather like the Tempoet.
Continuing from the previous playtest, I found the idea of a Debuff for a Buff an interesting idea that I'd have liked to see played more with. I have a half-baked concept for a "Stutter" similar to Quantum Break's in flavor, which grants a number of debuff/buffs to pass around according to your caster level, as you make areas of "Stutter" where these effects happen.
A second idea would be "How do we turn our enemies into assets?" Things like turning previous movement actions into hazards, making attacks "Echo" into following rounds as you reposition the enemy into their own attacks, ect.
One thing I'd really kinda stay away from is Action economy, despite being thematically appropriate. At most, I'd say perhaps allowing to some abilities to go faster, but even then I'm slightly worried.

The reason I, personally like the Sphere System (And I rather enjoy Vancian casting for encouraging a wide array of character abilities) is that it opens up options that simply are not viable in the standard pathfinder system. If we create a mechanical identity of the Time sphere to be turning an enemy's assets against them, then we have an interesting mechanical identity that isn't "Oh, I go into the past and prevent things from happening!"

Honestly, I have a dozen talent ideas in my head that I'd like to see come to fruition. If I listed them, would you place them under consideration, and what would I have to do to make them not considered copyright?

[EldritchWeaver]

I found the idea of a Debuff for a Buff an interesting idea that I'd have liked to see played more with. I have a half-baked concept for a "Stutter" similar to Quantum Break's in flavor, which grants a number of debuff/buffs to pass around according to your caster level, as you make areas of "Stutter" where these effects happen.

What you describe is not the old way how those talents worked. You gave a target both a buff and debuff at once. Which is an idea I never liked. Why would you debuff your teammates? Why would you buff your enemies? To artificially increase difficulty?

What might work would be general talent which allows you to join two time talents and you can choose the squares where which talent is active. But do we actually have area of effect stuff instead of merely using specific target? If we only have Group Time, then all such a talent does allow is to save time and spell points. Which might be too good then as well.

[/QUOTE]Honestly, I have a dozen talent ideas in my head that I'd like to see come to fruition. If I listed them, would you place them under consideration, and what would I have to do to make them not considered copyright?[/QUOTE]

Feel free to post them anyway. I'd be interested in seeing ideas.

[The Vagabond]

What you describe is not the old way how those talents worked. You gave a target both a buff and debuff at once. Which is an idea I never liked. Why would you debuff your teammates? Why would you buff your enemies? To artificially increase difficulty?
For me, at least, it seemed like an interesting trade. Then again, I've always been a sucker for "Great Power at great cost" stuff.


What might work would be general talent which allows you to join two time talents and you can choose the squares where which talent is active. But do we actually have area of effect stuff instead of merely using specific target? If we only have Group Time, then all such a talent does allow is to save time and spell points. Which might be too good then as well.

Feel free to post them anyway. I'd be interested in seeing ideas.
I suppose I should explain it with the ideas I have. It's an idea that perhaps could probably be better suited with the Fate sphere, but I just find it makes more sense for the idea behind the Time Sphere I have.
Either way, the idea was that the economy of actions would make it a smart idea: In exchange for being able to use certain abilities as a free action, people suffer.


New Time Talent Descriptor: (Stutter)
Stutter talents only function in an area of Stutter, as defined below. Unless an action is listed, using a Stutter Talent expends an Attack of Opportunity. You can use any stutter talents in anyone's stutter, not just your own, and any creature can end the effect of a stutter as a move action, by either making a MSB check vs their MSD, or certain skill checks against their MSD (Use Magic Device, Knowledge (History), or Heal). Unless stated otherwise, each stutter talent requires a will save. Should a creature leave a Stutter, all Stutter effects cease on the target.

Create Time Stutter
A quick TL;DR would be that this turns the area within close range into an area of “Stutter,” where a character can use their talents to apply combo buff/debuffs using their Attacks of Opportunities, Once per round at 1st level, increasing by one at level 4 and every 4 levels after. Not sure what the base effect would be.
Spend spell points to reduce concentration action (From standard to move, Move to Swift, and Swift to Free) but not make it last for minutes/level.
(Originally thought about making it a free action, but I think AoOs are a more interesting idea.)

Alter History:
With talents marked as (History), You can make small changes to what is observed in history to grant allies various benefits. To change history in this way is a lengthy, strenuous endeavor, and usually requires any targets of the effect to sit down and communicate with each other for 10 minutes to make sure the past remains stable. If communication does not occur, then the sphere effect fails and all creatures are nauseated for 1 hour per caster level. You can affect a number of creatures with this equal to your caster level or casting modifier, whichever is higher.

Trail Past (Time):
When the selected creature takes uses their move action to move, they continue to occupy the squares they walked through until the end of their next turn, and count as passing through the squares until the end of your turn.
This lasts until you end concentration or (If you spend a spell point) 1 round per caster level

(Use it to make walls of meat as a buff! Use it to make following the Wizard easier, or to make attacking a fleeing opponent easier)

Echo Attack (Time):
As a standard action, the selected creature’s attack echo into the following turns. The creature’s first attack action or attack equivalent (Whether it be making a trip attempt or similar) continues to take effect the following turn, affecting the targeted square the creature/item target is in once per round.
This lasts until you cease concentration, or 1 round/CL if you spend a spell point.
(This is essentially a way to turn an enemy’s action against them, or bolster your own creature’s actions. Reposition an enemy into their own trip attempt, have your Barbarian grapple a creature each round without having to spend his own action, ect.)

Ranged Attack Echo (Time):
When a creature makes a ranged attack against you or any other creature, as an Immediate action, you can stretch that ranged attack between the attacker and the target. Any creature who passes through that line of effect takes damage as if hit by that ranged attack, along with any negative effects (Ref save for half? Or no damage)
This lasts until the start of your turn unless you concentrate on it, or spend a spell point for it to last for 1 round per level.

(Same as Echo Attack)

Lingering Area (Time)
As a standard action (Or immediate action if you spend a spell point), you may select an 10 foot radius area. Any splash weapons or area-affecting spell/effect lingers in the area. Anyone who starts their turn in the area, ends their turn in the area, or passes through this area takes damage from the effects that have occured in this area. This lasts until the start of your next turn, though you can spend a spell point to extend its effects for another round. A given creature can be affected by a given effect in this area once per round.

(Turn an allies destructive blast into a lingering effect! Or your Alchemists splash weapons, or a dragon’s breath attack! Toss a Wizard into the fires of his own fireball for irony’s sake!)

Delay Pain at the price of blood (Time):
You cause the selected creature to delay any damage it might take until the end of this effect. They take no damage as long as this effect lasts on them until the spell ends. Once the spell ends, they take any damage they might have ignored at as Bleed damage. They continue to take this damage each round until the bleeding stops. This effect lasts as long as you concentrate, up to 1 round per 2 caster level.
(An interesting effect)

Delay Death (Time):
When an attack would reduce a creature to 0 HP, they can spread the damage across the next couple of rounds. Each round, you take 5 bleed damage per character level. This bleed damage does not end until you take a number of points of bleed equal to the damage taken. This lasts until you have taken bleed damage equal to the damage you would have taken.

Steal Future (Time):
You grant the selected creature a standard action on your turn to spend however they would prefer. They must then perform the standard action before this spell ends in the same location, or they take 1d6 damage per caster level (Will save to ignore initial effect). This lasts for concentration or 1 round per 2 caster level.

Stuttered Vision (Stutter):
A single creature is blinded until the start of your next turn. However, a the afflicted character can select one of two effects to benefit from:
All lethal damage it takes is rendered into nonlethal damage. This effect lasts for 1 minute, at the end of which all nonlethal damage becomes lethal damage.
Gain the benefit of the time sphere’s Haste ability.

Time Drain (Stutter):
All creatures in your stutter (Both ally and enemy) treat the duration of some buffs as lasting rounds per level, rather than hours per level. You can affect things with a duration measured in minutes at CL 1, measured in 10 minute increments at CL 7, things measured in hours at CL 14, and things measured in days at CL 21. This lasts for 1 round per 2 caster levels or concentration, whichever is shorter.

I bought it yesterday (Time):
You cause the selected mundane item to become un-purchased. This turns the item into a number of gold pieces equal to the selling value. You can also spend a spell point to target a number of gold pieces equal to the value of another mundane item, retroactively purchasing it. This item appears where the gold pieces would be.

Echoing Self (Stutter):
A single target suffers spell failure chance from hearing their own words echoed as their past occurs with the present, and a shadow of their actions occurs in tandem. This renders the target unable to speak unless the spend a move action to focus themselves, and applies 20% spell failure chance on any effect with Vocal components. However, this also applies a 20% miss chance to the selected target, as the creature cannot see themselves. The miss chance and spell failure chance increase by 5% per 3 caster levels up to a maximum of 50%.

Pause Movement (Time):
You stop the movement of any inanimate object in in a 10 foot radius within close range. This allows you to cross any rapturous surfaces, and ignore any reflex saves required by a given effect.

Did we drink that? (History):
By spending 5 minutes talking with each character, you can regain a small number of consumable alchemical remedies. You regain a total number of alchemical remedies expended within the last 24 hours whos total value equals to 25 gp per caster level. This increases by 25 gp at level 5 (To 50 gp per caster level), and by 25 every 5 caster levels after.
You can take this talent a second time, this time affecting magical items worth half the value of a mundane item.

Long Rests (History):
Regain HP and ability damage as if you rested for 1 day per 6 caster levels (Minimum 1 day). This does not regain Spell Points, Spell Slots, or any daily usage abilities.

Slow and Steady (Stutter):
A single target suffers slow as your sphere ability, and gains finer control with their reduced speed. While under the slow effect, the target rolls twice and takes the better result on all skill checks and attack rolls.

Were we friends? (Stutter):
All creatures within your stutter treat all other creatures as both allies and enemies. This means that you cannot exclude anyone if it excludes only allies, count as flanking with an enemy, and suffer the pain and boons from any war sphere talent that affects both allies and enemies.

Exchange Power (History):
Allies can exchange spell points with each other, and exchange certain limited-use abilities with each other at a rate of 1 point in your ki pool, 1 point from your arcane pool, 2 rounds of barbarian rage, 2 rounds of bardic performance, one use of channel energy, 1 grit point, one use of smite evil.

Exchange Pain (History):
You can transfer damage between creatures up to your caster level. Allies can heal damage by applying damage to other creatures equal to the damage healed.


Or did I buy it tomorrow?:
Prerequisite: I bought it yesterday
Your I bought it Yesterday ability now affects magical items. Mundane items are un-purchased at their base GP value. You can select this a 2nd time, to sell magical items at their base value.

Or are we going to?:
Prerequisite: Did we drink that
The talent can now affect magical potions. If taken a second time, it can be used on all kinds of mundane expendable items. If taken a third time, it can be used for all magical expendable items.


I ended up whipping up twice as many as I thought I had. I’m actually rather shocked.
For full-caster archetypes, I can see ways to manipulate money, or harder, HARDER uses of time-travel can be used (The stuff you don't want to pass out as a magical talent).

Also annoyed by the fact that I didn't make as many time talents as I'd have liked.

[khadgar567]

Looks good for me. Looks like time handbook 2 to has its talents ready.

[mrguymiah]

*snip*
I absolutely adore this. It's a great way to handle "changing the timeline" without forcing a rework of a bunch of things. We don't need the details, we just need the effect.

[Tariyan Draegr]

My I suggest a change to the Form Mind Blade ability like the following:

Mental Weapons: Choose one of the following groups.
* Form Mind Blade, Shape Mind Blade, Throw Mind Blade, Enhanced Mind Blade
* Empowered Strikes, Enhanced Strikes, Psychokinetic Discharge
* Form Mind Bolt, Shape Mind Bolt, Launch Mind Bolt, Enhanced Mind Bolt
*Psycrystal Affinity, Psycrystal Augment
* Form Panopoly of Blades, Psychokinetic Throw, Enhanced Armory

You gain the chosen group of class features. You may take blade skills or their equivalents as though you were a member of the archetype the class feature originally came from (i.e., if you took the Form Panopoly of Blades class feature, you may choose Armory Tactics as though you were a Psychic Armory).

This replaces the Form Mind Blades, Shape Mind Blade and Throw Mind Blade and Enhanced Mind Blade class features, but count as those features for requirements and prerequisites.

This was a suggestion made by Brendan Eichler in the Time Handbook. I wanted to second this since Ssalarn deleted it for good reason but he did mention that he archived this but I figured it would be good to post this in the GitP forum for more discussion.

I do also say I LOVE this idea immensely since it allows you to get the most out of the really cool soulknife archetype but I do know that writing out all of these abilities take up word space so I wanted to suggest that you have the base wording of the current soulknife arcehtype but maybe include this as an optional rule with a link to the ability if this option seems suitable for the archetype.

[khadgar567]

@Tariyan Draegr the whole mind blade this mins blade that options gonna require a new sphere as current mind sphere is kinda focuses toward mental manipulation so how about waiting until expansion books finish and city of seven seraphs hit the shelf then ask this question again on main ask me anything threat one more time.

[Tariyan Draegr]

@Tariyan Draegr the whole mind blade this mins blade that options gonna require a new sphere as current mind sphere is kinda focuses toward mental manipulation so how about waiting until expansion books finish and city of seven seraphs hit the shelf then ask this question again on main ask me anything threat one more time.

I have no idea what you just typed but the mind blade and these options are for the soulknife presented by dreamscarred press. These options are presented in the various splat books and aren't involved with the mind sphere in anyway

[khadgar567]

I have no idea what you just typed but the mind blade and these options are for the soulknife presented by dreamscarred press. These options are presented in the various splat books and aren't involved with the mind sphere in anyway
they are psionic powers and we lack the psionic sphere in current content. so wait until expansion books and city of seven seraphs done. then ask this in the main ask me anything threat. Is what i was saying in previous post.

[Tariyan Draegr]

they are psionic powers and we lack the psionic sphere in current content. so wait until expansion books and city of seven seraphs done. then ask this in the main ask me anything threat. Is what i was saying in previous post.

You don't need a psionic sphere though. The issue that was brought up was that in its current form, the current archetype cuts off access to every other soulknife archetype which is a big part of the class. This person presented a solution and I was merely bringing attention to it since it's an issue that can be solved within the book via a rewording of the ability as suggested or as an optional rule included in this splatbook. There is no reason to wait until more expansion books and Co7S to be done to address this because this may not even be an issue to consider in those other books.

[digiman619]

Re: the idea of a "psionics sphere" because of a soulknife archetype is kinda dumb. I mean, if your game has both psionics and SoP, I'm sure there's room for crossover and for psionic rituals and incantations, but psionics is balanced by a ever increasing power point cost and PP pool. I'm sure you could try and hack a way to convert spell points into PP, but PP and SP aren't interchangeable; a spherecaster with no SP still has options, but a psion with no PP is totally tapped. Besides, outside of the Gifted Blade archetype Soulknives can't even manifest anyway.

[khadgar567]

Re: the idea of a "psionics sphere" because of a soulknife archetype is kinda dumb. I mean, if your game has both psionics and SoP, I'm sure there's room for crossover and for psionic rituals and incantations, but psionics is balanced by a ever increasing power point cost and PP pool. I'm sure you could try and hack a way to convert spell points into PP, but PP and SP aren't interchangeable; a spherecaster with no SP still has options, but a psion with no PP is totally tapped. Besides, outside of the Gifted Blade archetype Soulknives can't even manifest anyway.
Exactly my point that's why i said wait until books and city of seven seraphs to finish then ask for new sphere requests?

[Tariyan Draegr]

Exactly my point that's why i said wait until books and city of seven seraphs to finish then ask for new sphere requests?

But we're not asking for a new sphere. I don't understand what you're trying to convey as I feel as though you've missed the point entirely of what I originally posted.

[Ssalarn]

This was a suggestion made by Brendan Eichler in the Time Handbook. I wanted to second this since Ssalarn deleted it for good reason but he did mention that he archived this but I figured it would be good to post this in the GitP forum for more discussion.

I do also say I LOVE this idea immensely since it allows you to get the most out of the really cool soulknife archetype but I do know that writing out all of these abilities take up word space so I wanted to suggest that you have the base wording of the current soulknife arcehtype but maybe include this as an optional rule with a link to the ability if this option seems suitable for the archetype.

I actually like the idea quite a bit, so to help the conversation along, let me just get my concerns out there-
1) Combined with the other abilities, it's pretty much an alternate class instead of an archetype.
2) That's a huge amount of word count for any archetype, let alone a non-DDS class.
3) There are a lot of really good requests I've got tagged for the available word count (object aging, thaumaturge and fey adept options, some time feats), and if I were going to add more text to the soulknife archetype I'd need to start either cutting those, or dropping current materials (the hedgewitch archetype is high up on that list since hedgewitch already has a ton of support and people don't seem to be digging the Dr. Who tradition).

Basically I like the idea of opening up the mindblade more but there are several constraints I need to work around (can't trade in something for nothing, need to keep the word count reasonable, etc.) So definitely feel free to keep talking about possible solutions, but keep those limitations in mind. I'm also reviewing things and tinkering on the back end, so if I come up with a good idea I'll let you know.

[Tariyan Draegr]

I actually like the idea quite a bit, so to help the conversation along, let me just get my concerns out there-
1) Combined with the other abilities, it's pretty much an alternate class instead of an archetype.
2) That's a huge amount of word count for any archetype, let alone a non-DDS class.
3) There are a lot of really good requests I've got tagged for the available word count (object aging, thaumaturge and fey adept options, some time feats), and if I were going to add more text to the soulknife archetype I'd need to start either cutting those, or dropping current materials (the hedgewitch archetype is high up on that list since hedgewitch already has a ton of support and people don't seem to be digging the Dr. Who tradition).

Basically I like the idea of opening up the mindblade more but there are several constraints I need to work around (can't trade in something for nothing, need to keep the word count reasonable, etc.) So definitely feel free to keep talking about possible solutions, but keep those limitations in mind. I'm also reviewing things and tinkering on the back end, so if I come up with a good idea I'll let you know.

Thx for the response Ssalarn. The only other suggestion I have for implementing something like this is that since the bonus feat is the only real hiccup for most of the archetypes that do little except for changing the blade, a friend suggested (he lacks a GitP account atm) that the archetype has the option of having the blended talent training start at level 2 and preserve the bonus feat, with the caveat that when the class is first leveled, they may choose whether to take the talent or the bonus feat. Something along the lines of, "This ability replaces the blade skills gained at xth level and the bonus feat gained at level 1. If you choose to, you forgo your talent gained from this ability at level 1 to preserve the bonus feat class feature. If you choose to do so, you may take any archetype that replaces the bonus feat class feature but you will not regain the blended training talent gained at level 1." The wording is very rough but I hope we've gotten the point across for the suggestion.

[Dr_Dinosaur]

Thx for the response Ssalarn. The only other suggestion I have for implementing something like this is that since the bonus feat is the only real hiccup for most of the archetypes that do little except for changing the blade, a friend suggested (he lacks a GitP account atm) that the archetype has the option of having the blended talent training start at level 2 and preserve the bonus feat, with the caveat that when the class is first leveled, they may choose whether to take the talent or the bonus feat. Something along the lines of, "This ability replaces the blade skills gained at xth level and the bonus feat gained at level 1. If you choose to, you forgo your talent gained from this ability at level 1 to preserve the bonus feat class feature. If you choose to do so, you may take any archetype that replaces the bonus feat class feature but you will not regain the blended training talent gained at level 1." The wording is very rough but I hope we've gotten the point across for the suggestion.
The wording of the Conscript's ability to take two Sphere Specializations in exchange for their own Bonus Feats is similar to what I think you're going for. Maybe look at that?

[Aipaca]

Some talents a mate and I have been thinking about:

Parallel Reality
Advanced Time talent
Requires CL5
You may spend 2 Spell Points as a free action at the start of your turn to split reality into two parallel timelines. After you take your turn, you begin it again as if affected by the Retry Talent. At the end of this second turn, you may choose which of the two turns you prefer to continue into reality and disregard anything that happened in the other.
At CL15, you may split reality into three timelines and choose one.
I.e. this talent lets you try your turn twice and pick which one you prefer. Like a proactive retry talent. Use sparingly to avoid slow IRL play.


Blast from the Past
Advanced Time talent
requires destruction, shift time, CL5
You can send your destructive blasts backwards through time to strike a target before you cast it.
You may spend 1 Spell Points as a free action to cast a destructive blast; doing so does not require concentration, range, line of effect, or any action on your part. Next turn, you MUST spend the required action to actually cast the destructive blast. If you cannot or the conditions of the blast are not met (no line of effect, failed concentration, etc) the spell fails, you take 2d6 unavoidable damage per CL of the destructive blast, and you lose 1d4 Spell Points from the resultant paradox. When aiming this spell, you need range and line of effect to where the target was when it was initially struck.
The maximum range of this blast is equal to the lower of your destruction or time spheres.


Predictive Attack
Advanced Time/Divination talent
Requires Divine Future, Eject, CL5
You can send your attacks forward through time to strike a target after you cast it.
When attacking or casting any ability that targets a single hostile creature, you may choose to send your attack through time to where they will be, rather than where they are. At any point on your next turn, you may cause the attack to return to reality as a free action, determining range and line of effect from where it was cast but deciding any other effects normally determined at the time of casting (target, area, etc) as if it were cast now

The target takes a -1 -1/5CL penalty on saves and AC against this effect as, regardless of how vehemently they may try to avoid it, you have already seen exactly where they will be when it manifests.


Improved Time Shifting
Advanced Time talent
Requires Predictive Attack or Blast from the Past, CL10
You may use Blast from the Past and Predictive Attack with any spell or effect that requires a target, friendly or hostile.
You may, as an immediate action, cause an effect you have generated with Predictive Attack or will generate with Blast from the Past* to manifest as if it were a readied action with any trigger. If used to interrupt an attack, the attacker takes a -1 -1/5CL penalty on the attack roll. If interrupting a spell, the caster takes this penalty on their concentration check (but not any attack roll associated with it, that being a different trigger).
*(this replaces the free action normally required to use Blast from the Past)


Synchronicity:
Basic Time Talent
You gain a brief glimpse into the future that allows you to arrange a coincidence of of events. As a standard action, you can ready a standard or move action and use it whenever you choose before your next turn. Unlike the normal use of readied actions, you need not specify the condition under which you take your readied action. If you do not perform your readied action before your next turn, you lose that action. Using this talent does not change your initiative.
If you spend 1 additional Spell Point, you do not need to specify the standard action you are readying. In effect, you can take any standard action at some later point in the round.

Celerity
? Advanced Time Talent
Either requires Shift Time (hence advanced) or is gained the second time Time Shift is taken
You may use Time Shift on yourself as an immediate action. This also allows you to use Time Shift to use any swift action as an immediate action instead (for the appropriate Spell Point cost).

Improved Eject
? Advanced Time Talent
Either requires Eject (hence advanced) or is gained the second time Eject is taken
Your Eject Talent now lasts for up to 5 rounds per caster level. You may spend 1 additional Spell Point to increase this to 1 hour per caster level.
At CL 10 you may spend another additional Spell Point to increase this duration to 1 week per caster level
If you possess both this Talent and the Temporal Stasis Advanced Talent, you may Eject a single creature permanently - subject to the limitations of the Temporal Stasis Talent (3 Spell Points, touch range, permanent/time/condition). Other than requiring Will over Fort and the target not physically existing in 3D space, this use is identical to Temporal Stasis (mostly just a refluff)

Fast Time taken Twice
Time Talent
When using fast time, all effects that have their durations decreased also apply their effects for every such round. For each such round, targets are affected as if they had spent a round with that effect applying to them. Fast Healing will heal HP, poisons will require saves vs damage (or curing), bleed damage will trigger, etc.
Note: Abilities such as Rage or Bardic music need to have their interaction with Fast Time clarified. As it stands, they don’t actually have a ‘duration’ to decrease so they are unaffected.

True Time Travel
Advanced Time Talent
Requires Shift Time, Retry, CL15
You may travel backwards in time. Regardless of possessing Group Time, you may only use this talent on yourself.
You may spend 5 Spell Points to travel backwards in time, emerging in your current location (relative to the ‘ground’ not the universe). Doing so is incredibly strenuous and causes you to permanently lose some of the Spell Points used to cast this spell – they cannot ever be recovered by anything weaker than wish/miracle (and even then, at DM discretion). The casting time, time travelled, and Spell Points lost are detailed in the table below. When you reach CL20, you may use the versions below marked with asterisks, paying additional Spell Points to meet the Spell Points Lost requirements.

Casting Time Time Travelled Spell Points Lost
1 standard action 1min/CL 1
1 Full-round action 1hr/CL 2
1 Round 1day/CL 3
1 minute 1week/CL 4
1 Hour 1month/CL 5
*1 Day 1year/CL 6
*1 Week 10years/CL 7
*1 month 100years/CL 8

This talent cannot return you to the Future but it can be functionally achieved with Eject, Temporal Stasis, Create Demiplane, or other similar talents. Note that the Future may have changed dramatically since you left; while the caster typically has immunity to their own paradoxes, the DM is the final arbiter of the nature of the butterfly effect, paradoxes, parallel universes, timeline disruption, temporal compensation, etc. The DM has the right to disallow this particular talent even if they allow other advanced talents as it has incredibly far-reaching and complex implications for any campaign.

[Cybershark]

I'm going to collect all of my thoughts in this post, because making a bunch of comments on the document is just going to scatter this all over the place and get bogged down with how slow the UI is.

0: A Table of Contents

Would it be possible to attach a table of contents to the top of the document, to make navigation easier, and to allow for tabulating just what has changed?

1: Blended Training Archetypes

There's a few of these here in. Every archetype but the Fracture, Time Stalker, and Time Thief are Blended Training archetypes, which means they get Combat and Magic Talents. Blended Training is great conceptually but the execution is a bit hit-or-miss I feel. Prodigy got it right since Adaptation and having Talents=Caster Level gives a lot of room to branch out. I think the Blended Training archetypes presented here are more on the Hit side. Good job there!

The only suggestion I have is for the Time Knight, and that's that if it wants to keep the Prodigy-tier blended training, it should probably lose more than it does.

Time Knight gets a sum of 26 talents (6 from a unified tradition, 20 from class levels). It loses immunity to fear and the ability to share Smite Evil's benefits with their allies. It has Blended Training, which allows the paladin to freely decide where their talents go to. It does not suffer a Caster Level Penalty)

Sphere Paladin with the Dirt-Spattered Angel archetype gets a sum of 24 talents (4 from martial Tradition, 2 from Casting tradition, 10 from Proficient Progression, then 8 talents from Sphere paladin). It loses Smite Evil and the ability to share smite evil's benefits with their allies (but it has Stance of Triumph I guess). It does NOT have Blended Training, which means that it must spend those ten combat talents on combat talents and those eight magic talents on magic talents, but it also has -3 to Caster Level, which seriously hurts the effectiveness of their magic.

Time Knight retains Smite Evil, which seriously inflates their damage, especially with Barrage sphere (and it's far easier to be an Archerdin with Spheres of Might, since Barrage requires far less investment than the litany of archery feats Pathfinder normally requires). Dirt-Spattered Angel doesn't.

2: Epoch-Walker Soulknife

Honestly I'm not too sure how to feel about this archetype. On the one hand it's Sphere support for Soulknife. On the other hand, is it really needed? There are very few games I have witnessed that allow crossover for DDS or DSP content that occupies the same Niche (Psionics/Akashic vs Spheres of Power, Path of War vs Spheres of Might). So bringing this in feels a bit iffy to me.

I'm not making any statement about the archetype's quality (it's serviceable, nothing really pops out at me) but it honestly seems to me to be better served as an Armorist archetype. The only Soulknife archetype that remains compatible with Epoch-Walker is the Armored Blade, which when combined with this archetype, really just makes the Epoch-Walker a not!Armorist but slightly less competent, almost.

Is there any precedence for increasing a class' talent progression?

3: Archetype Names

Okay this is more of a nitpicking complaint, but there are three archetypes that have the "Time" name in them- Time Knight, Time Stalker, and Time Thief. I'm going to suggest a few names for them below, some of which have been suggested earlier

Time Knight- Knight Temporal, Chrono Crusader, Warden of the Watch, Hourglass Knight
Time Stalker- Quartz-Cracker (a number of watches use the properties of quartz to measure time), Pendular Pursuer, Stitcher (maybe a play on the Witcher)
Time Thief- Two-Timer, Chronolarcenist

4: Archetype Compatibility

This thought only applies to the Time Stalker and Time Thief. Both possess minor features (proficiency for the Time Stalker, the 20th level rogue talent for the Time Thief) that render them incompatible with the Guild Assassin and Canny Scoundrel archetypes from Spheres of Might. I'm of the opinion that things would be more fun for everyone if these two archetypes stacked with their class' Might archetypes.

Time Thief (in my opinion) should instead replace the Master Strike class feature instead of the 20th level rogue talent. That would render it compatible with Canny Scoundrel.
Time Stalker (in my opinion) should drop Rapid Study (taking Con damage in order to do something I need to do every single combat slightly faster? Worst trade deal in history, folks) and retain shield proficiency in order for it to be compatible with Guild Assassin.

[Dr_Dinosaur]

I like Knight Temporal, but Time Thief is a classic name for such a character. Maybe “Clockstopper” for Time Stalker?

[Domar]

For the Epoch-Walker Soulknife I recommend dropping the free Time Sphere talent, releasing the first level bonus feat and requiring you spend your first talent on the time sphere.

[Tariyan Draegr]

2: Epoch-Walker Soulknife

Honestly I'm not too sure how to feel about this archetype. On the one hand it's Sphere support for Soulknife. On the other hand, is it really needed? There are very few games I have witnessed that allow crossover for DDS or DSP content that occupies the same Niche (Psionics/Akashic vs Spheres of Power, Path of War vs Spheres of Might). So bringing this in feels a bit iffy to me.

I'm not making any statement about the archetype's quality (it's serviceable, nothing really pops out at me) but it honestly seems to me to be better served as an Armorist archetype. The only Soulknife archetype that remains compatible with Epoch-Walker is the Armored Blade, which when combined with this archetype, really just makes the Epoch-Walker a not!Armorist but slightly less competent, almost.

Is there any precedence for increasing a class' talent progression?

For myself, I much prefer the soulknife to the armorist. I do see your point though. They are two classes who do roughly the same thing except one was built for psionics and one was built for SoM. However, even if though their bases are similar, the more arcehtypes that are released, the more they tend to diversify.

The armorist having archetypes based around spheres has put them in a separate direction design wise than the soul knife which was needed IMO. Creating this archetype for armorist would be continuing that trend, except this time they would hopefully be getting full talent progression because as was mentioned in the doc, the two low casters with full BAB (armorist and mageknight) are fairly starved for talents, especially in this Might and Power world.

On the other hand, the archetype presented here for the soulknife creates a unique opportunity to meld Dreamscarred press products and Spheres of Power products more closely together and provide a reason for people to look into to various forms of content. In addition, the soulknife arcehtype and design wise has grown in a fairly different direction than the armorist and I would loathe to see an archetype that integrates the soulknife into spheres be discarded for another armorist archetype (though this is one that it most certainly needs).


For the Epoch-Walker Soulknife I recommend dropping the free Time Sphere talent, releasing the first level bonus feat and requiring you spend your first talent on the time sphere.

This is also a fantastic idea so +1 to this idea

[AlienFromBeyond]

I like Knight Temporal, but Time Thief is a classic name for such a character. Maybe “Clockstopper” for Time Stalker?
Clockstopper is already the name of the Gunslinger archetype...

[Gleyon]

I think that The Vagabond and Aipaca have put forward some pretty nice talents.
I’d like to add some further talents and suggestions

Particularly: regarding Haste
We’ve seen plenty of the discussion about haste and slow interacting with SoM; this is my personal solution that I’ve been using in homegames:
Hasted characters may take 1 extra attack on a full attack or attack action. Slowed characters may not consider their standard action as an attack action. It’s worked nicely so far and lets the sphere-less Barbarian take advantage of the +30ft speed and still get 2 attacks if he wishes.


Advanced Talent
Variable Time
Requires group time, 2 or more [time] talents
When you use group time, you may spend 1 additional Spell Point to affect each target with a different [time] talent you possess, paying their Spell Point costs normally. E.g. you may cast haste on 2 allies and slow on 2 enemies; you may steal time from one enemy and shift time onto 3 allies; etc.

Lingering Time
When you cease concentrating on a Time sphere effect, it persists for up to 2 rounds afterwards unless its maximum duration would otherwise be shorter.

-undecided name-
when you spend 1 spell point to allow a haste effect to persist without concentration, you may also allow any slow effect you are concentrating on to persist for the same duration as well without spending a Spell point (e.g. haste allies. next turn slow enemies then spend 1 spell point to 'autopilot' both effects)
(Pretty niche but it'd be nice for a haste/slow focused timespeed-altering kinda build's feel)

Save time
You may spend an hour doing nothing but meditating, functionally excluding your psyche from the flow of time, in order to reserve that "wasted" hour for use at a later time.
You may have up to one hour per CL ‘saved’ in this manner.
When you perform an activity that takes 10 minutes or more, you may spend an equal amount of saved time to accomplish that amount of work in 1/60 the usual time, round up (i.e. every hour spent takes only one minute). This can be used for e.g. gather information checks, item crafting, animal training, overland travel, retraining, doing all your shopping before dusk, etc. but, as it requires a significant amount of mental focus, may not be used to cast a spell or ritual nor to rest and regain Spell Points; you may still use this time to rest physically, such as recovering from fatigue, ability damage, etc.

(This is a very weird talent but my players tend to like the idea of having less hours one day and more hours another as they reallocate the ‘time’ resource. It takes a little handwaving to explain how the 60x speed downtime action actually canonically happens though so it might warrant being an advanced talent.)


Improved save time (paradox*)
Advanced talent, requires save time, shift time, CL 1
You may spend a spell point to fill your pool of saved time with up to 1h/CL by meditating for only one minute. You must meditate for each hour you gain from this talent within the next 1day/CL or you suffer a paradox.

* (I am toying with (in my own hombrewey way) a new subtype of talent: [paradox]. These are ones where the flow of time is overtly interrupted or rearranged. If you alter the future but do not live up to those alterations (e.g. saving time that you did not have) you suffer from the paradox. The effects of such I have not decided, perhaps they ought to be decided per talent, but ought to be suitably nasty that PCs won’t want to mess with timelines haphazardly. E.g. “drop to -1 HP and have a 1/20 chance per round to immediately die” or “permanently lose x Spell Points”. I note that many of The Vagabond’s and Aipaca’s talent suggestions would be paradoxes, especially Blast from the Past.)


I would consider Shift Time a paradox talent even though it carries no risk of suffering from one because the lost action is mandatory. Rather than state “loses that action for their next turn”, I would say “loses that action when they next have an opportunity to take it” to prevent e.g. nauseated characters gaining standard actions but losing nothing on their next round due to already having lost that action.

I would similarly add a clause to Steal Time to give it less paradox potential.
Replace "If successful, you immediately gain an additional standard action." with
"Immediately after they take their turn, if your target spent it being dazed from your use of this ability, you gain a single standard action that you may use on their initiative count without affecting your own count (unless you choose to ready it).”
That way you only get the action if they actually lose it and there’s no chance of stealing an action from the future which they would take anyway (if they have the condition removed). (I also note that my Time-stealing player is sometimes flustered on a success and unsure of what to do with her new action so the delay before having to make a decision can help to speed up table-play.)
PEACH because these may see homegame use regardless of the handbook :)

[Ssalarn]

Just touching bases to let everyone know that I was in a pretty bad car wreck and it's put me behind on this project in particular, since it requires the biggest chunk of my time outside of work to actually get updates implemented and pushed through. I have not forgotten it though, and I've been collecting the feedback everyone's been leaving so I can try and get an update pushed out that will address some of the outstanding requests.

[digiman619]

As much of a fanboy I am of this series, you need to look after your own health. I'll be waiting for whatever you produce. Though as a side note, I've been thinking: as awesome as the Epoch Walker is, a Soulknife archetype really ought to be in a Creation Apocrypha.

[Tariyan Draegr]

Just touching bases to let everyone know that I was in a pretty bad car wreck and it's put me behind on this project in particular, since it requires the biggest chunk of my time outside of work to actually get updates implemented and pushed through. I have not forgotten it though, and I've been collecting the feedback everyone's been leaving so I can try and get an update pushed out that will address some of the outstanding requests.

I hope you feel better Ssalarn. Been in an accident myself so I know how bad that can be.

[EldritchWeaver]

Get well soon, Ssalarn!


Particularly: regarding Haste
We’ve seen plenty of the discussion about haste and slow interacting with SoM; this is my personal solution that I’ve been using in homegames:
Hasted characters may take 1 extra attack on a full attack or attack action. Slowed characters may not consider their standard action as an attack action. It’s worked nicely so far and lets the sphere-less Barbarian take advantage of the +30ft speed and still get 2 attacks if he wishes.

I totally agree that haste should buff the standard action attack, too, instead of the solution in the Time HB. It fits better with SoM since it allows effectively already full-attack as your standard action. It isn't going to give you more attacks than you could get anyway with the classical approach. The only advantage is that you get to spend your move action in addition, which by SoM standards is not a problem.

[Drakhan]

This is so cool to see and sneak in on! First thing first, thanks for all the hard work! I love this system and my players love it too!

Second though Ssalarn, get better first! Health first, Life Second, Work third =)

On to actual ideas, there is a lot here that'll take some time (heh) to digest. I jumped right to talents and...noticed they were a small fraction of the book. In fact, though cool, much of the current content is a plethora of archetypes. I don't mind that, and will certainly be taking a bit to look through all of them, but many of the reasons I personally like the handbooks are the expansion of the actual spheres system.

I will say though, after skimming through them, seeing a soul knife archetype is unusual. Not bad at all, and adapting that class off the psionic system is cool but...isn't that NOT from Drop Dead Studios? I just find the decision to include it odd, though definitely all for getting something putting that class into the sphere system.

As far as talents, I like some of what I see but feel there is a lot...missing.

The core sphere includes haste, slow, blur, aging, temporal ejection (awesome effect by the way), decreasing duration without penalty, extending time (but only to take 20 on a skill), redoing a turn, stealing time from the future (yours or your opponents), and the sort of time stop.

Just in here there are some cool options that I don't see in the playtest material.

1st - Speeding up time WITH the penalty applied. Maybe taking fast time again will allow the penalties of the effects in that time to be applied (such as requiring all the saves against the hastened poison, losing bleed health, etc). Slow time being the inversion is great, but perhaps a reason to take it a 2nd time to match this version of fast time?

2nd - Combination of extending time to take 20 and redoing a turn. Perhaps a talent, "Taste the Future" where you can take your turn 2/3/4/5 times (Increased as you level for 1/2/3/4 SP) and then pick the result you want. Triggered traps, killed creatures, etc don't occur unless you pick that 'timeline' to occur.

3rd - In addition to Retry, you have replay, named something like "Time Ghost". You cause a temporal distortion that causes a creatures prior action from the past to occur in the present. They can cause any single action they take to duplicate 1/2/3/4 times. If used to duplicate an attack, it costs 1/2/3/4 SP. If used to duplicate another action (such as casting a spell, using an item, etc) it costs 2/4/6/8 additional SP. (serious nova concerns so maybe just restrict it to duplicating attacks?)

4th - Improving Time Stop to be more consistent. Allies/self can always choose to pass/fail the save (maybe require taking it a second time).

That's just extrapolation from current abilities.

Additional things could be something like "Temporal Skip". Choose an object, you either forward it in time, weakening it from rot/age and reducing it's hardness by 1 per caster level up to half of its original hardness. Or you can skip it to a time where it was even stronger, temporarily enhancing its hardness to be improved by 1 per caster level up to half again it's original hardness. If taken a second time the caster level bonus/penalty to hardness can reduce an item to zero hardness or increase it to double its original hardness. If used against an attended object and the attending creature fails its saving throw, they take a penalty to their CMB as they suffer disorientation against the skipping effect.

"Temporal Advancement" - You choose a creature, it gains the benefit of the advanced creature template (if a monster) or a +2 bonus to all attack rolls, damage rolls, ability checks, and saves for the duration. Lasts 1 round per caster level if an SP is spent. This benefit doesn't stack if cast a second time. Counters and dispels Temporal Degeneration.

"Temporal Degerneration" - Spend a SP and choose a creature. It gains 1 negative level if it fails a will save. This improves by 1 negative level at 5th caster level, and every 5 caster levels thereafter. These negative levels normally disappear after 1 round per caster level and so don't normally last long enough to become permanent.

"Life Hack" - You rewind a creatures timeline to a point in time before it died. This can only be used on a creature that has been dead for no longer than 1 round. (leading to an advance talent to use it further and further back).

The healing ones are strange, so perhaps alter the haste one to "While hasted, any regeneration or fast healing the creature is benefiting from is doubled (or increased by 1 +1 per 5 caster levels)". This would make the healing haste and slow more in line with each other.

I think temporal trap could have some cool uses if allowed to be placed further away thanks to ranged time. You could make traps like Templar Assassin from dota.

For now that's all. Hope to hear some feedback on my ideas and maybe get one into the book!

[EldritchWeaver]

1st - Speeding up time WITH the penalty applied. Maybe taking fast time again will allow the penalties of the effects in that time to be applied (such as requiring all the saves against the hastened poison, losing bleed health, etc). Slow time being the inversion is great, but perhaps a reason to take it a 2nd time to match this version of fast time?

Are you suggesting that you combine a buff and a debuff? I'd like to point out that this has been suggested by the previous Time HB author and I wasn't alone in that to find that approach strange. I don't want to buff my enemies and I don't want to debuff my friends. Combining both ends up artificially handicapping yourself. Which is not what you want to do in a fight for your life.

[Drakhan]

Perhaps make it a choice? You can choose to apply the penalty to foes.

[stack]

Recently Added:
New base talents Retroactive Preparation and Time Zone
New Advanced talents Query Self and Past Sight
Incantations Transfer Years and Timeless Tontine

[EldritchWeaver]

Stack, are you now the owner of the Time HB?

[stack]

Stack, are you now the owner of the Time HB?

Nope, just helping out a bit.