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Cowboy_ninja
2007-08-28, 04:49 PM
in a quick dramatic moment my PC's will loose one of the few NPCs whom is really dear to them via quickened.... what?

i need ideas. im looking for a quick "poof-your-dead" spell. yea those are kinda over powered but i figure a lvl 10 spell caster could out right kill a lvl 1-2commoner/fighter in one round. it doesnt have to be quickened.

im creating my villian though im sure he will be a spell caster im not sure which one. im leaning to warlock or perhaps some eldritch/arcane mix from complete mage. anyway i hardly ever run spell casters as a player so i still dont know what kinda spells are out there.

thanks in advance to everyone for their help.

Thinker
2007-08-28, 04:53 PM
If he's level 10 he should probably have pretty good casting stats so why not use this:

Phantasmal Killer

Illusion (Phantasm) [Fear, Mind-Affecting]
Level: Sor/Wiz 4 Components: V, S Casting Time: 1 standard action Range: Medium (100 ft. + 10 ft./level) Target: One living creature Duration: Instantaneous Saving Throw: Will disbelief (if interacted with), then Fortitude partial; see text Spell Resistance: Yes

You create a phantasmal image of the most fearsome creature imaginable to the subject simply by forming the fears of the subject’s subconscious mind into something that its conscious mind can visualize: this most horrible beast. Only the spell’s subject can see the phantasmal killer. You see only a vague shape. The target first gets a Will save to recognize the image as unreal. If that save fails, the phantasm touches the subject, and the subject must succeed on a Fortitude save or die from fear. Even if the Fortitude save is successful, the subject takes 3d6 points of damage.

If the subject of a phantasmal killer attack succeeds in disbelieving and is wearing a helm of telepathy, the beast can be turned upon you. You must then disbelieve it or become subject to its deadly fear attack.

martyboy74
2007-08-28, 05:01 PM
If the wizard hasn't banned evocation, you could hit them with a Scorching Ray (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/scorchingRay.htm). That's an effective (if you use both rays, it's minimum damage is 8, and the average is 28), low-level, flashy way to eliminate them. Also, it eliminates the risk of them making their save; it's a ranged touch attack, which is nigh impossible to screw up.

Also, how many hit points does this guy have?

The Mormegil
2007-08-28, 05:02 PM
Yeah phantasmal killer is good. But...

-Telekinesis him in an acid cauldron/lava lake
-Acid Eyes Anathem (BovD) and dies for acid damage to be cruel
-Agony on him and make him suicide for the pain
-Psion's Death Instinct is... VILE.
-Evard's Black Tentacles to hang him.
-Summon a big thing to eat him.

You have maany possibilities!

Kurald Galain
2007-08-28, 05:07 PM
A third level commoner has 4 + 2d4 + 3 * con bonus hit points. That's 13 hp if we're being generous, probably less than that, and 18 if we're really stretching it. Also, not much of an armor class or saving throw.

If the BBEG is a warlock, his Eldritch Blast deals 5d6 at this point, which has a good chance of roasting the commoner downright. A gish can do something similar, and a warmage has so many ways of frying the commoner that it's not even funny. A nasty cleric could use some Cause Foo Wounds variant for the same effect.

Beguilers don't usually kill stuff outright; nevertheless (as expected) a BBEG beguiler has a number of very stylish ways of offing the commoner, such as Incite Riot and Legion of Sentinels.

A druid is also fun, he could cast that 5th-level summon spell to conjure up something downright nasty, and have it tear the commoner limb from limb.

And a wizard can do all of the above. Simultaneously. And twice.

Saph
2007-08-28, 05:10 PM
Cloudkill. Level 5 spell. Bang, you're dead, no save.

Fireball or Lightning Bolt would have the same effect, as long as he doesn't roll a 20 on his Reflex save (and he might die even then).

Heck, if you really want to be silly about it, just hit him with a Maximised Magic Missile. But Cloudkill, Fireball, and Lightning Bolt all allow hitting different targets, making them much more efficient from a spellcaster's point of view.

- Saph

martyboy74
2007-08-28, 05:12 PM
Yeah phantasmal killer is good. But...

-Telekinesis him in an acid cauldron/lava lake
-Acid Eyes Anathem (BovD) and dies for acid damage to be cruel
-Agony on him and make him suicide for the pain
-Psion's Death Instinct is... VILE.
-Evard's Black Tentacles to hang him.
-Summon a big thing to eat him.

You have maany possibilities!

Do you mean Recall Agony (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/powers/recallAgony.htm) and Death Urge (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/powers/deathUrge.htm)?
Evard's Black Tentacles won't kill them on the first round, and might not kill them on the second round. If it's crucial to have them die, that's completely unacceptable. Summoning something to eat him has the same problem.
Telekinesis depends on having him weigh no more than 250 pounds (inlcuding gear), and requires the target to be within 100' of the insta-death hazard.

Kajorma
2007-08-28, 05:13 PM
The answers are all inside the books it seems to me.
We can go through them systematically.
I'd love to help you on your killing spree,
There must be 50 ways to kill a Comm'ner.

Summon a succubus, Gus.
Use a Scorching Ray, Jay.
Or a Lightning Bolt, Holt.
Vampiric Touch much?

Just blast him, baby!

:biggrin: (I'll stop now. I've exceeded my daily allotment of horrible)

Nakun
2007-08-28, 05:20 PM
I'd go with the maximized magic missile just because there's no save and it's five missiles, so he's dead. If you want to go for something big, I really like lightning bolt, it's flashy.

Forrestfire
2007-08-28, 05:57 PM
How about Crisis of Life.

Or you could Plane shift him to the negative energy plane...

Another way could be: Finger of death, then a quickened reach Animate Dead

Comet Fall is a very flashy way to kill someone

Cowboy_ninja
2007-08-28, 06:12 PM
Yeah phantasmal killer is good. But...

-Telekinesis him in an acid cauldron/lava lake
-Acid Eyes Anathem (BovD) and dies for acid damage to be cruel
-Agony on him and make him suicide for the pain
-Psion's Death Instinct is... VILE.
-Evard's Black Tentacles to hang him.
-Summon a big thing to eat him.

You have maany possibilities!

ooo summoning! i like that...

what can i summon that has the ability "swallow whole?"

Indon
2007-08-28, 06:12 PM
As was suggested earlier, Maximized Magic Missiles. No save, no attack, 25 damage.

Cowboy_ninja
2007-08-28, 06:15 PM
How about Crisis of Life.

Or you could Plane shift him to the negative energy plane...

Another way could be: Finger of death, then a quickened reach Animate Dead

Comet Fall is a very flashy way to kill someone

commet fall and plane shift. liek the sound of those which book are they in. Also could you please spell it out all the way please? im not use to the Bow, or BoA stuff. :smallsmile:

Kaelik
2007-08-28, 06:19 PM
At level 10 I would say that a Warlock/Sorc/Eldritch Theurge would have a fun way to kill him.

Something like this:
Sorcerer 1 (Precocious Apprentice to get 2nd level spells)/Warlock 4/Eldritch Theurge 5. This gives him spells as a lvl 6 sorc and invocations (including Eldritch Blast) as a lvl 9 Lock.

What you want to do is use the Shape just gained to, as a full round action, Eldritch Blast the Commoner (ideally in the middle of the PCs) and have a Fireball go off centered on one corner of his square.

With this build at lvl 10 we are looking at min 22 Cha. So that's 5d6 Eldritch Blast followed by Reflex for 6d6. Min damage 8 (As Scorching Ray) Maximum 66, Average 38.5.

The reason this is so awesome (besides that an Eldritch Theurge baddy is awesome) is that you can hit the Party with a Fireball at the start of combat but still make it absolutely clear you are aiming primarily to kill Mister Commoner.

Of course, that means as DM what you need to do next is Prevent Resurrection. Can't help much with that without knowing more specifics.

Deth Muncher
2007-08-28, 06:32 PM
Power. Word. Kill. With Silent Spell. And.....Still Spell.


EDIT: Didn't read the caster level....

Cowboy_ninja
2007-08-28, 06:38 PM
At level 10 I would say that a Warlock/Sorc/Eldritch Theurge would have a fun way to kill him.

Something like this:
Sorcerer 1 (Precocious Apprentice to get 2nd level spells)/Warlock 4/Eldritch Theurge 5. This gives him spells as a lvl 6 sorc and invocations (including Eldritch Blast) as a lvl 9 Lock...

...Of course, that means as DM what you need to do next is Prevent Resurrection. Can't help much with that without knowing more specifics.


you hit it right on the dot. i'm makeing an eldritch thurge Rakasha. im looseing the "start off with 7th lvl sorc" spells and just giving him that build. though i am curious where that feat "precocious apprentice" is.

im not going to eliminate resurection but im going to make it really rare and im thinking about a rule that goes something like:

- if you get reduced to -25 hitpoints in one shot there is nothing left of you. NOTHING.

you think that is a fair rule?

goat
2007-08-28, 06:42 PM
Drop a cow on him.

Cowboy_ninja
2007-08-28, 06:45 PM
Drop a cow on him.

i want this to be a big showing of my villan's power.
nothing comical.
my villan has a reputaion to maintain :smallwink:

martyboy74
2007-08-28, 06:48 PM
you hit it right on the dot. i'm makeing an eldritch thurge Rakasha. im looseing the "start off with 7th lvl sorc" spells and just giving him that build. though i am curious where that feat "precocious apprentice" is.

im not going to eliminate resurection but im going to make it really rare and im thinking about a rule that goes something like:

- if you get reduced to -25 hitpoints in one shot there is nothing left of you. NOTHING.

you think that is a fair rule?

Define 'one shot'. Technically, hitting someone at -24 for 1 point of damage knocks them to -25 in one shot.

TheOOB
2007-08-28, 07:00 PM
You could always create the equivalent of a force choke spell (a la Darth Vader). It's a very slow and dramatic way to finish someone off.

TSGames
2007-08-28, 07:06 PM
i want this to be a big showing of my villan's power.
nothing comical.
my villan has a reputaion to maintain :smallwink:

I think it was a reference to a certain show that is not for children. "We have to make it look natural!"

tannish2
2007-08-28, 07:08 PM
thinaun weapon (complete warrior) maybe planting one on the commoner, then frying later with any method previously suggested, perhaps disintegrate?+eldrich blast w/ spell thingy?

Jack_Simth
2007-08-28, 07:13 PM
in a quick dramatic moment my PC's will loose one of the few NPCs whom is really dear to them via quickened.... what?

i need ideas. im looking for a quick "poof-your-dead" spell. yea those are kinda over powered but i figure a lvl 10 spell caster could out right kill a lvl 1-2commoner/fighter in one round. it doesnt have to be quickened.

im creating my villian though im sure he will be a spell caster im not sure which one. im leaning to warlock or perhaps some eldritch/arcane mix from complete mage. anyway i hardly ever run spell casters as a player so i still dont know what kinda spells are out there.

thanks in advance to everyone for their help.Well, at 10th, a Quickened spell is limited to basically 1st level spells.... of course, as a standard, human commoner-3 has 2.5*3 hp (NPC's don't benefit from the full hp at 1st rule); if he's an Elf, that's 1.5*3 hp. So we're looking at about 4-8 hp, and another 10 on top of that to ensure dead (at -10). Can we get 18 damage with a 1st level spell at 10th?

Magic Missile, at 10th, does 5d4+5 damage; that's 9, at a minimum, and 25 at a maximum; average of 17.5 damage. Shocking Grasp at that caster level averages the same.

You're the DM; fudge the die roll. A 10th level caster NPC is perfectly fine for slaughtering a 3rd level commoner NPC without actually rolling.

Fax Celestis
2007-08-28, 07:15 PM
Disintegrate, maybe? You'd have to UMD it, but I don't foresee that being an issue. At minimum level, a wand of it would deal 11d6 damage, with a Fort save for 5d6 instead. Either way, the commoner's 13 hp will certainly be taken care of even if he makes the save. 11d6 averages to 38, 5d6 averages to 17, the commoner's HP averages to 13.

And once he gets past 0, he's dust and cannot be resurrected. Seems like exactly what you want.

Ellisthion
2007-08-28, 07:17 PM
Enervation. Bestows 1d4 negative levels.
Why:
Power: It's a reasonably powerful spell, being level 4. Much better than a mere magic missile.
Dramatic: It has a "black ray of crackling negative energy"!
Instant death: Just say you rolled a 3 or 4 (you're DM, you can fudge it), and the guy dies.
Hard to raise: Negative levels tend to turn people into Wights, which means they can't be raised by Raise Dead. This means that your friendly PCs can't bring back the NPC unless they get a Resurrection, which is a lot harder.

Forrestfire
2007-08-28, 07:19 PM
commet fall and plane shift. liek the sound of those which book are they in. Also could you please spell it out all the way please? im not use to the Bow, or BoA stuff. :smallsmile:

Plane shift is in the player's handbook, and comet fall in in complete divine.


PS: what are Bow and BoA?

Edit: i did not see that your villain is 10th level. these spells are higher than that. you could use scrolls though.

Cowboy_ninja
2007-08-28, 07:33 PM
Disintegrate, maybe? You'd have to UMD it, but I don't foresee that being an issue. At minimum level, a wand of it would deal 11d6 damage, with a Fort save for 5d6 instead. Either way, the commoner's 13 hp will certainly be taken care of even if he makes the save. 11d6 averages to 38, 5d6 averages to 17, the commoner's HP averages to 13.

And once he gets past 0, he's dust and cannot be resurrected. Seems like exactly what you want.

UMD? what does that mean?

TSGames
2007-08-28, 07:34 PM
UMD? what does that mean?

Use Magic Device, as per the player handbook skill.

ImperiousLeader
2007-08-28, 08:07 PM
It's a pity, there's a 9th level spell called Detonate. Cast on commoner ... commoner explodes, dealing fire damage to all around him. If that strikes your fancy, but you want a lower level, there is a martial maneuver from Tome of Battle called Death Mark, deal extra fire damage with a melee strike, and damage all around with a blast of fire.

If you want something more chilling, check the necromancy school. Perhaps an empowered Chilling Touch delivered via a Spectral Hand?

Rex Blunder
2007-08-28, 09:11 PM
Another chilling option, although commoner death wouldn't result for another few rounds. Baleful Polymorph him into a fish?

TheOOB
2007-08-28, 10:09 PM
Another chilling option, although commoner death wouldn't result for another few rounds. Baleful Polymorph him into a fish?

Or something their familiar/animal companion/pet can eat.

loserthree
2007-08-28, 10:19 PM
Tell the party that the NPC has their loot. Let nature take it's course.

No, seriously. If you want this to be remembered, to maybe hurt a little, to be awesome, you should have the party kill him. I recommend Lycanthropy (that they don't know about), but an illusion of some sort could work fine.

For the quick shot, see everybody else's post (almost everybody).

Kaelik
2007-08-28, 10:44 PM
you hit it right on the dot. i'm makeing an eldritch thurge Rakasha. im looseing the "start off with 7th lvl sorc" spells and just giving him that build. though i am curious where that feat "precocious apprentice" is.

im not going to eliminate resurection but im going to make it really rare and im thinking about a rule that goes something like:

- if you get reduced to -25 hitpoints in one shot there is nothing left of you. NOTHING.

you think that is a fair rule?

I think that rule is pretty fair all things considered. Also, Precocious Apprentice is in the Complete Arcane. It isn't with they other feats but instead in a side bar on a much later page. Something like 170? Not quite sure. I use it primarily to hit PrCs earlier then usually allowed, or with more levels in the non-Wiz/Sorc side then expected.

For example that Eldritch Theurge build loses only out on only HD, one single level of Invocation Progression, and the 14th lvl Craft ability. In return he gains 11 lvls of Sorc Spell Casting, and the ability to do 2 standard actions (and no others) every round.

My favorite use though is to get Master specialist one level earlier

Specialist Wizard 2/MS 10/Archmage anyone? Or plenty of others too.

TheOOB
2007-08-28, 10:47 PM
How about a dominate person, making a party member kill the character.

Threeshades
2007-08-28, 10:55 PM
i want this to be a big showing of my villan's power.
nothing comical.
my villan has a reputaion to maintain :smallwink:

How about an infernal cow?

Cowboy_ninja
2007-08-29, 01:24 AM
Tell the party that the NPC has their loot. Let nature take it's course.

No, seriously. If you want this to be remembered, to maybe hurt a little, to be awesome, you should have the party kill him. I recommend Lycanthropy (that they don't know about), but an illusion of some sort could work fine.

For the quick shot, see everybody else's post (almost everybody).

i like that idea too. maybe an illusion? once he dead the illusion fades and everyone goes "oops?" but is there an illusion spell that can make someone else look like what ever you want? like alter other, but an illusion?

Kurald Galain
2007-08-29, 04:55 AM
IAlso, Precocious Apprentice is in the Complete Arcane. I use it primarily to hit PrCs earlier then usually allowed, or with more levels in the non-Wiz/Sorc side then expected.

However, that is not really allowed, and not what the feat was intended for.

http://forums.gleemax.com/wotc_archive/index.php/t-426386

Not that Mystic Theurge is such a great presclass per se, but the eldritch theurge build you mention loses almost nothing and gains large amounts of sorcerer ability, which is clearly not the intent.

kme
2007-08-29, 05:21 AM
You can use flash to salt from sandstorm (same as flash to stone just fifth level and turns into salt),and then cast a quickened magic missile or quickened jet of steam to destroy the statue.

Thanatos 51-50
2007-08-29, 06:08 AM
What wrong with stabbing and/or shooting commoners? Are they even worth a spell slot?

Wraithy
2007-08-29, 06:25 AM
prestidigitation is the only spell any caster needs... ever.
you can 1 hit kill the tarrasque with it.

PlatinumJester
2007-08-29, 06:29 AM
What you need is a 1000 sporks and a cannon. Auming that each spork does 1 damage and they all hit since then you do an automatic 1000 damage.

martyboy74
2007-08-29, 06:29 AM
prestidigitation is the only spell any caster needs... ever.
you can 1 hit kill the tarrasque with it.

Uh huh. What's he gonna do? Make a hole under the guy's foot and give him a sprained ankle?

Maryring
2007-08-29, 07:09 AM
Drop a cow on him.
Groovy! :smallbiggrin:

Anyway... killing a commoner eh. Attack spells are all good to use, as he will have too low a health to survive them. Enervation is good too. There are no monsters summonable by summon monster I-V that allows for summoning a monster with swallow whole. But at the same time, most of the monsters at the later spell levels would kill the 3rd level commoner in one shot, and could spend the rest of the duration eating the dead commoner.

Although... if you want truly dramatic effect... well.

You said that the character who will be killing the commoner is a Rakshasa right? So why not simply have the Rakshasa eat the commoner? At the very least, it should freak out your players.

If not, fireball always works. :smallbiggrin:

Wraithy
2007-08-29, 07:11 AM
Uh huh. What's he gonna do? Make a hole under the guy's foot and give him a sprained ankle?

prestidigitation when combined with the right feats & multiclasses, can do more damage than any other spell in the game

Rex Blunder
2007-08-29, 08:19 AM
So why not simply have the Rakshasa eat the commoner?

You'll need to use the Quickened metameal feat.

Grug
2007-08-29, 11:47 AM
The best thing to do is defenitely Baleful polymorph into an Ogre or another evil creature. He goes on a rampage, gets killed by PCs and turns back into their friend.

huyneo
2007-08-29, 12:04 PM
You could use a translocation trick and it effectively switches the places
of you and another person.
So you could do that to do commoner and have the PCs kill him

The_Werebear
2007-08-29, 12:12 PM
prestidigitation when combined with the right feats & multiclasses, can do more damage than any other spell in the game

Show me.

I wish to see this.

Rex Blunder
2007-08-29, 12:18 PM
prestidigitation when combined with the right feats & multiclasses, can do more damage than any other spell in the game

Maybe combined with another character. For instance, a level 20 wizard who has just declared, "I will kill whoever has the cleanest clothes in the room." :smallsmile:

Kaelik
2007-08-29, 12:30 PM
However, that is not really allowed, and not what the feat was intended for.

http://forums.gleemax.com/wotc_archive/index.php/t-426386

Not that Mystic Theurge is such a great presclass per se, but the eldritch theurge build you mention loses almost nothing and gains large amounts of sorcerer ability, which is clearly not the intent.

I don't know. Reading that thread I see no reason why Precocious Apprentice can't work that way. It misses out on the original reason it wouldn't work because you never gain second level spells from another source. Whether or not it was meant to work that way it does allow for entry into some prestige classes.

Of course the build I mentioned gains more then it loses. What would be the point otherwise? But also, yes compared to a regular blaster lock he has many benefits (that's the idea) but is he really more powerful then a Blaster Sorc of equivalent level? How about a Batman Wizard? Exactly.

I also would like to point out that as a DM I would find no problems with my players using it that way. You hit the Presitge Class about the same time, maybe a couple levels earlier. But I can't think of any PrC so powerful that I wouldn't allow it.

Wraithy
2007-08-29, 12:38 PM
Show me.

I wish to see this.

the words of one who has never experienced the awesome terror of a crude artificial object!

Roy666
2007-08-29, 01:40 PM
What you need is a 1000 sporks and a cannon. Auming that each spork does 1 damage and they all hit since then you do an automatic 1000 damage.
Dude... I love you... THAT IS SO AWSOME!!!!

AKA_Bait
2007-08-29, 01:44 PM
Well, if you are more concerned with making it really harsh for the party...

Set up a trap for them in the Inn.
Use Magic Jar to take over party member x (presumably the one closest to the NPC).
Have party member x brutally murder the NPC in front of everyone.
Allow the party to deal with ensuing mayhem.

Whever that dies down:
Use Sending to Mock the Party.

Falrin
2007-08-29, 01:46 PM
1) Make a New spell.

Something Horror/Thriller/Scary Thing.

Ex.
Turn Inside out, rip the skin of, burst something out of your chest, Snap every bone (open fractures), expand body parts till they explode, 'burn to death' without flames, ...

Don't make it an Instant kill Effect, just do x damage, FS halves, but enough to kill your commoner.

You can make this an 3 rounds effect for more horror.

Round 1:
Cast the spell: A Large burning claw shoots from his hands and grabs the Commoner. It starts burning away the commoners skin.
X fire damage. RS Halves & negates second effect

Round 2:
It scratches it's way inside his stomach. The Commoner seems to be in a horrible pain. Blood streams out of his mouth and flames escape the open wound in his stomach.
X Piercing damage. FS negates & ignores thrid effect.

Round 3:
The flaming hand erupts from his back ripping out his scalded intestines.
X damage. FS negates.


2) There is a feat around that lets you 'personalized theme' your spells. Give this to him and all his spells look like small, burning skulls that eat away the flesh of your face.


On killing th tarrasque with a prestidigation:

No, that spell is designed to summon cupcakes for you to eat. You can't create it inside your enemy's brain."-Lysander

Thanatos 51-50
2007-08-29, 03:10 PM
Doesn't Predignitation allow you to perfrom the trick for one HOUR per caster level?
Spam sharp sticks.
Presdig 'em to float.

Drop atop target all at once.

Alternativly, propel.

Cowboy_ninja
2007-08-29, 03:13 PM
However, that is not really allowed, and not what the feat was intended for.

http://forums.gleemax.com/wotc_archive/index.php/t-426386

Not that Mystic Theurge is such a great presclass per se, but the eldritch theurge build you mention loses almost nothing and gains large amounts of sorcerer ability, which is clearly not the intent.

no im looseing the sorc abilities entirely. im thinking he starts off casting as a lvl 7 warlock ( or accodring to my build 4 warlock/3 wizard) instead of a sorcerer.

Cowboy_ninja
2007-08-29, 03:20 PM
1) Make a New spell.

Something Horror/Thriller/Scary Thing.

Ex.
Turn Inside out, rip the skin of, burst something out of your chest, Snap every bone (open fractures), expand body parts till they explode, 'burn to death' without flames, ...

Don't make it an Instant kill Effect, just do x damage, FS halves, but enough to kill your commoner.

You can make this an 3 rounds effect for more horror.

Round 1:
Cast the spell: A Large burning claw shoots from his hands and grabs the Commoner. It starts burning away the commoners skin.
X fire damage. RS Halves & negates second effect

Round 2:
It scratches it's way inside his stomach. The Commoner seems to be in a horrible pain. Blood streams out of his mouth and flames escape the open wound in his stomach.
X Piercing damage. FS negates & ignores thrid effect.

Round 3:
The flaming hand erupts from his back ripping out his scalded intestines.
X damage. FS negates.


2) There is a feat around that lets you 'personalized theme' your spells. Give this to him and all his spells look like small, burning skulls that eat away the flesh of your face.

:

i think what im getting at is i dont want the PC's to go " mieh we'll just res him" i bet there is some vile spell out there that makes it so that there is nothing left to resurect with ey?

daggaz
2007-08-29, 03:37 PM
The answers are all inside the books it seems to me.
We can go through them systematically.
I'd love to help you on your killing spree,
There must be 50 ways to kill a Comm'ner.

Summon a succubus, Gus.
Use a Scorching Ray, Jay.
Or a Lightning Bolt, Holt.
Vampiric Touch much?

Just blast him, baby!

:biggrin: (I'll stop now. I've exceeded my daily allotment of horrible)

That's just fifty kinds of Awesome! :smallbiggrin:

Decoy Lockbox
2007-08-29, 03:42 PM
Hell, anything would kill a level 3 commoner. If you really wanted to keep it simple, you could always use magic missile. A caster level 10 magic missile does 5d4+5 damage, so a minimum of 10 and an average value of 17 dmg. This should normally do the trick.

Once you hit level 10 as a caster, pretty much any spell which deals damage based on level will kill a far lower level character. Fireball, Lightning bolt, scorching ray, cone of cold, orb of fire/cold/acid/whatever, and so on.

Murderous Hobo
2007-08-29, 04:14 PM
If you want to go for the "Ooh you didn't just..." factor you might want to do what the Lich boy-wonder did in #193 (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0193.html) and turn the commoner in a zombie that attacks the party.

Power Word Kill is 9th level with lax casting requirements, and summon monster IV is 4th level so a spell that turns a creature with 4HD or less into a zombie without a saving throw shouldn't be unbalanced for a 10th level caster.

(Can I get that with an area of effect?)

goat
2007-08-29, 04:34 PM
Grim Revenge from the BoVD. 6d6 damage (that's what, 21 on average?), and their own hand tries to kill them if that's not enough.

Unfortunately it requires the caster to be undead...

Yakk
2007-08-29, 04:36 PM
Consume Soul:
Necromancy [Evil]
Level: Sor/Wiz 5
Components: V, S, M/DF
Casting Time: 1 swift action
Range: Medium (100 ft. + 10 ft./level)
Effect: Ray
Duration: Instantaneous
Saving Throw: Will negates
Spell Resistance: Yes

A thin, pulsing green and purple ray springs from your pointing finger. A ranged touch is required to hit your target. This spell does 3d6+caster level damage if the target fails a will save. It cannot reduce a target below 0 HP, nor can it effect non-living beings.

The caster heals the amount of damage dealt.

If the target is reduced to 0 HP by this spell, the target's int, wis and cha is reduced to 0 until the caster of the Consume Soul releases the soul (which causes the caster to lose 1d6 HP forever), the caster of the Consume Soul dies, or a Wish is expended to return the soul back to the body.

...

There. It is a good spell for a number of reasons:
1> It heals the Necromantic caster by 3d6+caster level damage.
2> It is a swift action.
3> It is evil.
4> It gives the party another reason to hunt down and kill the bad guy, if they can figure out what happened to their buddy.

The damage and the double-save is enough to prevent it from being a good spell to use in most circumstances. Keeping it around to quickly self-heal off of gimp targets (like the mentioned L 3 commoner) might make it worth knowing.

And maybe the BBEG can use the souls he sucks up via the spell for something even more dastardly.

blakyoshi7
2007-08-29, 05:58 PM
It cannot reduce a target below 0 HP



If the target is reduced below 0 HP by this spell


Is that supposed to be a joke?

Yakk
2007-08-29, 06:08 PM
Is that supposed to be a joke?

No. Changed "below 0" to "to 0" in one of the two cases. :)

MandibleBones
2007-08-29, 06:13 PM
Give him one level and use flesh to stone. Better yet, use it beforehand... and while monologuing, use rock to mud to wipe their face clean.

kme
2007-08-29, 08:50 PM
You can also contain him earlier with necrotic cyst(libris mortis I think),and than use any of the horrible spells that rely on necrotic cyst.

Yahzi
2007-08-29, 10:39 PM
(I'll stop now. I've exceeded my daily allotment of horrible)
Hahaha!

:smallbiggrin:

loves_to_laugh
2007-08-29, 10:48 PM
I think your best bet is going to be disintegrate.

Disintegrate
Transmutation
Level: Destruction 7, Sor/Wiz 6
Components: V, S, M/DF
Casting Time: 1 standard action
Range: Medium (100 ft. + 10 ft./level)
Effect: Ray
Duration: Instantaneous
Saving Throw: Fortitude partial (object)
Spell Resistance: Yes
A thin, green ray springs from your pointing
finger. You must make a successful
ranged touch attack to hit. Any creature
struck by the ray takes 2d6 points of
damage per caster level (to a maximum of
40d6). Any creature reduced to 0 or fewer
hit points by this spell is entirely disintegrated,
leaving behind only a trace of fine
dust. A disintegrated creature’s equipment
is unaffected.
When used against an object, the ray
simply disintegrates as much as one 10-
foot cube of nonliving matter. Thus, the
spell disintegrates only part of any very
large object or structure targeted. The ray
affects even objects constructed entirely of
force, such as Bigby’s forceful hand or a wall
of force, but not magical effects such as a
globe of invulnerability or an antimagic field.
A creature or object that makes a successful
Fortitude save is partially affected,
taking only 5d6 points of damage. If this
damage reduces the creature or object to 0
or fewer hit points, it is entirely disintegrated.
Only the first creature or object struck
can be affected; that is, the ray affects only
one target per casting.


It's going to be very destructive and will have a very high chance of success. The only downside is that your character would have to be level 11 to cast it.

dyslexicfaser
2007-08-30, 01:56 AM
Consume Soul:
Necromancy [Evil]
Level: Sor/Wiz 5
Components: V, S, M/DF
Casting Time: 1 swift action
Range: Medium (100 ft. + 10 ft./level)
Effect: Ray
Duration: Instantaneous
Saving Throw: Will negates
Spell Resistance: Yes

A thin, pulsing green and purple ray springs from your pointing finger. A ranged touch is required to hit your target. This spell does 3d6+caster level damage if the target fails a will save. It cannot reduce a target below 0 HP, nor can it effect non-living beings.

The caster heals the amount of damage dealt.

If the target is reduced to 0 HP by this spell, the target's int, wis and cha is reduced to 0 until the caster of the Consume Soul releases the soul (which causes the caster to lose 1d6 HP forever), the caster of the Consume Soul dies, or a Wish is expended to return the soul back to the body.

...

Then your BBEG smacks his lips and says, "Mmm, tastes like chocolate." or whatever you happen to think souls taste like.

Evil Bonus Points if you have a device or homebrewed spell on hand to blast the crap out of your PCs with their friend's soul, like in that one webcomic RPG World.

Maryring
2007-08-30, 05:39 AM
... No. A level 5 spell that affects a soul? Sorry, but that's not possible. Affecting a soul requires at least a level 8 slot, because a soul is just that unique.

Sebastian
2007-08-30, 06:46 AM
i want this to be a big showing of my villan's power.
nothing comical.
my villan has a reputaion to maintain :smallwink:

what about Flesh to Stone (from a scroll) + Shatter? It is not in 1 round but it is very impressive, IMHO

and just think to their faces of your players
1 round: meh, we'll just pay to destonify him
2 round: :smalleek:

Funkyodor
2007-08-30, 07:00 AM
Wow, that brings up an intresting combo. What if he used a scroll of Contingency, then had a Shatter spell go off if he ever casts Flesh to Stone? That sounds like a cool way to express your dominance. Standard action Flesh to Stone, then Shatter... Oh, wait. Man, a person made of stone weighs alot! Guess no Shatter then. Man that was sounding so cool. Or maybe Stone Shape Contingency and watch him use a ranged touch attack ability to warp and distort the commoner, while laughing in the standard BBEG pose?

Sebastian
2007-08-30, 07:30 AM
Wow, that brings up an intresting combo. What if he used a scroll of Contingency, then had a Shatter spell go off if he ever casts Flesh to Stone? That sounds like a cool way to express your dominance. Standard action Flesh to Stone, then Shatter... Oh, wait. Man, a person made of stone weighs alot! Guess no Shatter then.

Oh, right, what if he aim it only at the head? I mean if I can't use Shatter to break pieces of a item it would be pretty dumb, IMHO.Oh, well, stone shape would work, too. or a great mace wielding ogre minion could do, in a pinch. (it is not as much as impressive, tho.)


(mmh, I wonder if flesh to stone + stone shape + stone to flesh = permanent polymorph)

Zim
2007-08-30, 08:12 AM
If your party cleric has close wounds, death by damage dealing might be tough. They could probably save the NPC as an immediate action with that spell. I'd stick with the save or die spells or tricking the party to kill him. Something as simple as suggestion on the character with the weakest will save would do (Bob is a monster, kill him!).

If you want to make it an instant effect, what about enervation boosted with sudden maximize or a similar booster? This should cover it pretty well and bypasses all of those pesky healing spells.

Barring that, a round or two with a common house cat will do just fine. :smallwink:

Quietus
2007-08-30, 08:17 AM
Oh, right, what if he aim it only at the head? I mean if I can't use Shatter to break pieces of a item it would be pretty dumb, IMHO.Oh, well, stone shape would work, too. or a great mace wielding ogre minion could do, in a pinch. (it is not as much as impressive, tho.)


(mmh, I wonder if flesh to stone + stone shape + stone to flesh = permanent polymorph)

You could indeed add portions. However, once returned to flesh, they wouldn't be WORKING portions, and I'd apply the same rule if they made a horrendously large change ("I make him become a Dire Lion!"). Obscene changes, and extraneous additions, do produce flesh, but it's just that - flesh, no bones, no nerves. Just inert tissue hanging off the body.

Zim
2007-08-30, 08:25 AM
Oh! Oh! What about BBEG cliche #5: Pushing a button on his throne to open up a pit of woe under the desired target? <Big hole opens, commoner falls in, screams followed by gouts of flame/geizer of blood. PC's all shout "Noooooo!" or "Khaaaaaan!">

Seriously, why waste a spell slot, when a well placed trap/plot device might do.

Paragon Badger
2007-08-30, 11:05 AM
It's sad... You can't use Enlarge Person to crush someone going through a narrow crawl space.

Seriously, that would be a crummy way to die. All the PCs would hear was the dude's body being crushed and his screams right after they finished crawling through those very same narrow vents. ;-)

Perhaps a homebrew version of Enlarge Person? ;-) Or maybe just say that the bad guy used maximize or somethingm with it. Heck, you don't even have to tell the PCs what happened.

I was always one who put the story and the thematic elements as a priority over the actual rules, though. :smalltongue:

Besides, why CAN'T you use Enlarge Person to crush someone? If they are already a mad powerful balor, then their increased strength from the bigger size should help them break any barriers, even a wooden building or somesuch.

And if they are too weak to break any barriers, then... well... That's just a clever use of the spell, no? Sure, it would only be useful as an offensive spell in a select few moments, but woulden't that be the point? It's not designed to be used that way, and it usually isn't.

*shrug*

All I know is the core spells though, I have little information on all your filthy non-core warlocks that EVERYONE seems to play nowadays... Bah. >_>

Decoy Lockbox
2007-08-30, 12:21 PM
A level 10 wizard has roughly the same prowess in melee as a level 10 commoner, so you could have the wizard strap on some gauntlets and physically beat the commoner to death. The party would probably not see that one coming.

NamelessArchon
2007-08-30, 01:10 PM
Now, add salt to this, since I'm inclined to bend the rules a bit for dramatic effect. If we're willing to bend the rules heavily for an appropriately dramatic gesture (BBEG getting his ultimate revenge, so it's a one-shot never-repeated thing) then something like this would be where I'd go:

Nailed to the Sky (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/epic/spells/nailedToTheSky.htm)

Sure, that's WAY beyond 4th level. Of course, it's also suitably dramatic, and it could be assumed to be the final stroke of some hideously lengthy and horrifyingly profane BBEG ritual, and thus not available during standard combats or to PCs wanting to retain some measure of their humanity.

If we're not wanting to go down the rule bending "BBEG has spent months leading ritual casting and making sacrifices and infernal bargains to get this effect to happen just once against a commoner" route (ie: we'd like to play D&D mostly by RAW.) then I'd cast my vote for the variant spell Flesh to Crystal + Shatter (area effect). Make sure to describe the utter obliteration of their dear friend as having a sound like someone striking a pure, clear tone from a small bell, followed by a tinkling sound and a rain of fine crystal. (The victim would be reduced to fine shards like ground glass and simultaneously scattered like a bomb went off in his chest. This is basically just Disintegrate, but far more dramatically memorable.)

Flesh To Stone + Stone Shape is yet more RAW and would still work as a dramatic effect, if they can't immediately retailiate while your BBEG does his dirty work (that is, if there's something tying the players up, either literally or figuratively). Have the BBEG reach out like he's grabbing some invisible thing, and tell the players that it looks like the newly-minted statue of their friend is being pulled like taffy, with pieces pulled off and cast aside while the BBEG laughs maniacally.

If any deviation from RAW is bad, I'd shoot for Disintegrate, but some might think it was a bit boring. Zap. Pile o' Ash. Yawn.

If we're limited to 4th level, then you can forget "dead without ressurection" since there's nothing that low that won't leave a corpse (unless you use a summoned monster horde to eat it...)

Insert Name Here
2007-08-30, 01:26 PM
Clutch of Orcus (In Libris Mortis), though not immediate, is pretty evil. Crush the target's heart (only 1d3 a round) while paralyzing the target. If the target dies, his smoking heart appears in the caster's hand.

Gygaxphobia
2007-08-30, 01:32 PM
Mount, level 1 spell, 30ft range.

"You are standing in the village talking to your old friend. Suddenly a pony falls on his head and he is squashed dead."

slexlollar89
2007-08-30, 01:57 PM
Clutch of Orcus is in spell compendium, and deals 1d12 damg/round. Its my fvorite spell!

Zencao
2007-08-30, 02:15 PM
EDIT: Is there anyway you could control the commoner and make him rip off his own skin/eyeballs/genitails? I think that would be a little scary.

Commoner: So yeah I was talking to annabelle last night and we-
AHHHHHHHHHHHH HERGLEBURGHGOFLARGLEMAHAHACHABLARG
*Rips self to pieces with blood and pieces of flesh flying everywhere*
Party: :smalleek:

Insert Name Here
2007-08-30, 07:30 PM
Hmm. Clutch of Orcus did 1d3 in Libris Mortis. I checked the book before posting. But yeah, I recall a d12 in SC.

slexlollar89
2007-08-30, 07:55 PM
Pesonally, i'd o with d12s just because it's now better:smallbiggrin:

wodan46
2007-08-30, 08:50 PM
disintegrate is the way to go. zorch sizzle, no more npc, no hope of recovery.

slexlollar89
2007-08-30, 09:39 PM
NOOO! i have the PERFECT SPELL!!! crushing fist of spite from Book of Vile Darkness!!

basically a giant black fist crushes the opponent from above, a bunch of times! mmm... mashed commoner... my favorite side dish!

It is level nine though, but if you just DM rule bend for the cinematic effect... it just seems perfect.

Imagine: the players draw weapons and ready attack, and the NPC strides forth determinately. The sorcerer holds out his hand and sneers, and closes his open palm into ablack gloved fist. SPLAT!!!

Kaelik
2007-08-30, 10:04 PM
disintegrate is the way to go. zorch sizzle, no more npc, no hope of recovery.

Except for the Inability to Cast it. And that fact that it is so well known your metagaming PCs (all of them) will never shut up about how he couldn't cast that spell/They never had a chance cause he was too high a level.

Shraik
2007-08-30, 10:17 PM
this method is a bit gruesome if you want to use that.
Boiling blood and Energy Substitution:Cold. The combination turns the blood into acid and freezes it. The frozen acid/blood expands. and then melts. I don't need to explain an image

Zim
2007-08-31, 12:26 AM
Do you ever get an unexpected feeling of impending doom? Have you ever had a shiver suddenly sneak up your spine? Somewhere, out there in a quantum reality far removed from our own, is a similar internet message board thread discussing our own messy deaths to develope the plot of their own RPG. :smalleek:

I do not envy this commoner...nor ourselves.

The_Werebear
2007-08-31, 12:33 AM
A summoned monster is always good. However, that does, as was brought up, include the possibility of escape of the commoner, much less actual rescue. My solution: Have him summon something through a candle of invocation that grabs the commoner and drags him in.

If you don't want to do that, Magic Jar is always tons of fun. Possess the NPC ally, have him attack the party, and watch as they are forced to kill him. If they resist, keep attempting to kill the party member at every opportunity. If they still don't kill the commoner, or he is about to escape, you can always just leave and kill him in a more conventional manner.

Corolinth
2007-08-31, 01:26 AM
Depends what kind of death you're looking for. I'd recommend fudging a spell for it, though. A level 3 commoner isn't hard to kill. I mean really, do you need to roll damage or a save to kill Jack the Homeless Guy? If the spell seems to powerful, consider adding a proviso that it can only be cast on level 3 commoners (adding limiting factors like that lowers the suggested spell level somewhat).

1) A spell to drop the Monty Python boot on the victim's head is good if your players appreciate the comedic value.
2) For the added evil, you could consider a rain of babies from the sky to bludgeon the victim (and babies) to death.
3) Love's Pain from the Book of Vile Darkness is written explicitly for this purpose. It deals damage to the target's dearest loved one. No save, no spell resistance, nothing. One cast, and the hero's wife dies a horrid, painful death.
4) Scorching Baleful Polymorph Ray - turns the target into a chicken, and sets them on fire. Consider having the villain eat the victim afterwards.
5) Pictures are worth a thousand words:
http://www.nuklearpower.com/daily.php?date=060427
http://www.nuklearpower.com/daily.php?date=060429
6) Falling anvils.
7) The subject spontaneously turns into a gerbil at the exact moment he's transported to San Francisco. (Mr. Lemmiwinks! NOOOO!)
8 ) Head squishy.
9) The victim pops like a rancid boil and leaves a stinking cloud behind. Probably colored like blood and pus.
10) The victim starts to scream in pain, and while screaming, dissolves into thin air.
11) Victim spontaneously turns into a zombie, and the party is forced to kill him. This one adds insult to injury.

Have fun!

TranquilRage
2007-08-31, 07:36 AM
Invent a spell to turn them into some vaporous form, and then gust of wind them into nothingness.

Some bastardised version of water breathing that leaves them unable to breath normally. Then let them gasp to death in their lovers arms.

Small sphere of force around them. Then let them suffocate through the monologue.

You could just telekinesis them high into the air and let gravity do its thing.

oOo Ring of the Ram! and smack them into a wall, crushing them and demolishing the wall.

Of course, you dont have to kill them, you could steal them away and introduce them as a villain / zombie / head-on-a-pike later. Or never. In fact that might be better as it denies the chance to res them / move on.

Funkyodor
2007-08-31, 07:55 AM
Ooo Ooo Ooo! Flesh to Stone then Ring of the Ram the statue into a ton of pieces, the head of the commoner can roll up facing his master with its face contorted in pain for eternity! The BBEG can Rod of Quicken Flesh to Stone, then hold his palm out toward Bill the Commoner. "Mind Crush!" and watch as he explodes.