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View Full Version : Siangham optimization: because why not?



mabriss lethe
2018-02-27, 12:19 PM
I'm a bit late for Monday Monkday, I know. I was just thinking, What could the collective minds of the Playground cook up to retrofit a useless weapon into a resource?

Here's my take:
First: we upgrade the weapon itself: overclock its size and make it out of something with more useful qualities. Make it into a version sized for a large character. This does a few of things. 1. Better damage dice. Obviously a good thing. 2. Shifts the effort needed to wield it from Light to One Handed. That's useful because it gives us more mechanically useful options. We can now use it two handed. 3. It saddles us with a -2 penalty for inappropriate size. That's somewhat worrisome for a 3/4 BAB monk, but we'll deal with that later. For the sake of ease, we could say we made it out of Baatorian Green steel for a relatively inexpensive damage boost.

Now, on to Phase 2: special properties.
In order to overcome the handicap we gave ourselves by upping the size of the weapon, we use the Impaler property. X/day you can treat a piercing weapon as a touch attack. It's nice, but we still have a daily limit on uses. How can we get the most out of that?

Fleshgrinding! Once we hit as a touch attack we can let go and command it to keep up the good work without our supervision. Unless somebody manages to pull it out with a standard action and a successful strength check. We should do something about that. Strength based poison is an option and is a backup plan, but the same thing can be accomplished with spell storing and access to Ray of enfeeblement. Easy to stick, and since it's a penalty, will affect a lot of creatures that poison won't.

Now we have the base. An action economy juggler. From here it's a matter of maximizing the damage output of the weapon and maybe adding rider effects. I'm personally a fan of bumping the enhancement bonus to +3 for access to Greater weapon crystals. The two front runners here are lifedrinking and energy assault. Life drinking will give you a steady stream of hp back and greater assault crystals, especially cold and electric have some nice no save riders.

Fill in the remaining enhancements with damage boosts of choice.

Edit to add: the basic premise is that it's either The Welcome Wagon or The Parting Gift. On a round where you're either closing with an enemy or moving away from one, you hit'em as hard as you can with the siangham. (ie, any round where you can't make a full attack) since we've sized it to large, Power Attack to your heart's content, and then let it go rummaging around their internal organs on its own time. The next round you'll be full attacking/flurrying him bare handed or have moved on to whatever else needs doing and it will catch back up to you when it's done.

So what are your thoughts?

Goaty14
2018-02-27, 03:47 PM
It's... nice? The thing you're missing is that all of that can be applied to any other 1 or 2 handed piercing weapon, and thus isn't doing the siangham any favors.

Also a large-sized siangham is called a shortspear.

lord_khaine
2018-02-27, 03:57 PM
It is a really interesting idea. Im just afraight it might become a bit to expensive to actually use. Monks already got a lot of other stuff to blow their cash on.

mabriss lethe
2018-02-27, 04:35 PM
It's... nice? The thing you're missing is that all of that can be applied to any other 1 or 2 handed piercing weapon, and thus isn't doing the siangham any favors.

Also a large-sized siangham is called a shortspear.

If by missing the point, you mean laughing maniacally while finally putting that silly toothpick to use, even if said use is best defined as "technically possible but really pushing the limits of credibility." also, monks aren't proficient with shortspears. The siangham is the only melee piercing weapon aside from the dagger that Monks are proficient with.


It is a really interesting idea. Im just afraight it might become a bit to expensive to actually use. Monks already got a lot of other stuff to blow their cash on.

Price isn't an object with a thought exercise. You push it to its limit to get a handle on the emergent properties and then scale it back to more reasonable levels for actual use... or not, seeing as we're talking about a monk weapon. Just Impaler + Fleshgrinder alone is a pretty good and reasonably priced weapon, tack on an energy assault crystal and you've got some nice passive damage. (you could even tack it onto the tail end of a flurry, since a touch attack at low iterative BAB would still be pretty easy to hit)

Zaq
2018-02-27, 05:57 PM
It's... nice? The thing you're missing is that all of that can be applied to any other 1 or 2 handed piercing weapon, and thus isn't doing the siangham any favors.

Well, yeah. The siangham is bad primarily because it has no support and next to nothing for unique abilities or features. This means that pretty much by definition, there’s just about nothing you can do with it that you can’t do equally well with something else. This isn’t news.

Honestly, finding piercing-specific tricks and then slapping them on a Monk (because the siangham is, if nothing else, a “special Monk weapon”) is about as good as you’re gonna get.

emeraldstreak
2018-02-28, 05:28 AM
All good, but it pales in comparison to an oversized kama because of the Scorpion enchant. On your table, you can reverse-engineer it for siangham.

emeraldstreak
2018-02-28, 05:30 AM
monks aren't proficient with shortspears


They can be, with an ACF, moreover any weapon can be made into a monk weapon with Aptitude enchant shenanigans. Monk weapon =/= unarmed strike damage, though, you'll need Scorpion for that.

Prime32
2018-02-28, 11:33 AM
Well, yeah. The siangham is bad primarily because it has no support and next to nothing for unique abilities or features. This means that pretty much by definition, there’s just about nothing you can do with it that you can’t do equally well with something else. This isn’t news.It gets some mileage in telekinesis builds for its low weight.