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View Full Version : I Wish people would PEACH these Wishes.



Crisis21
2018-02-27, 01:32 PM
Wishes have long been a part of D&D, but between DMs who refuse to grant even the most benevolent of wishes without a sadistic streak and players who write up wishes that could pass for legal documents to pre-emptively counter any loopholes the DM can exploit, they've kind of gotten a bad reputation. So, here's my attempt to see if Wishes can be made fun and interesting again.

While I myself tend to homebrew for 5e, I have done my best to present these in terms that are system-independent so these Wishes can be used in any game system. The inspiration for these came from the Ranma 1/2 fanfic Only Half A Wish (https://www.fanfiction.net/s/787052/1/Only-Half-A-Wish), which itself was apparently inspired by an old Dragon Magazine article on defective wishes (if anyone reading this knows which article, please send me a link so I can read it myself because I'd really like to).

As always, Please Evaluate And Comment Honestly. I really Wish you would. :P


Wishes

Wishes are characterized by two things: Wording and Intent. The wording is obvious, it is the phrase and language the wisher uses to make their request of the wish-granter. Intent on the other hand is why they make the wish they do and should be every bit as important to the wish-granting process as the wording.

In the case of wording, no DM wants to deal with a several-hundred word (or longer!) wish crafted to legal perfection to eliminate all possible alternative explanations. Therefore, all wishes should be made under the same limits as a Sending spell: 25 words or less. In exchange for this consideration from the player, the DM agrees to take the Wish's underlying Intent into account when granting it.

In the case of intent, a DM should ask a player why their character would want what they are wishing for, with as much detail and roleplaying background as is practical. Never accept lazy circular reasoning such as a character wishing for great wealth 'because they want to be rich'. There should always be a deeper desire behind the wording of a Wish, even if it is something inherently petty and juvenile such as 'so I can lord it over everyone who made fun of me as a kid'.

In addition to this, if the Wish is being granted by an intelligent spirit of some sort, such as a Djinni, then the spirit's personal interpretation of the wording and the intent (have fun with cultural differences and any slang used!) may also be taken into account as well.

The standard rule of thumb for DMs and allowing Wishes to their players is this: If there is something you don't want the players to be able to do with a Wish, then don't give them access to a Wish capable of accomplishing it in the first place. To that end, here are a selection of half-baked Wish types for DMs to spring on their half-baked adventurers:


Limited Wish

Limited Wishes are much like normal Wishes. They follow the wording of the wisher's request to the letter and attempt to fulfill the underlying intent within the limits of the wording provided. However, the wish granter is limited in their power in some fashion. Standard limits may include one or more of the following:

Unable to directly kill any living creature.
Unable to directly alter the mind of any intelligent creature (i.e. no making someone fall in love with you, no making someone stop hating you, no changing and intelligent creature's alignment).
Unable to raise the dead in any fashion (though some wish granters can animate the corpse of the target as a type of non-intelligent undead and if requested to return an individual to life will be forced to do this instead).
Unable to replicate the effects of any spell over a certain level (ex. Sixth or higher)
Unable to travel through time.
Unable to alter reality on a wide scale (ex. If a wisher asks to be made royalty, they could be given all the usual trappings of royalty, but the wish granter would be unable to create an entire nation out of thin air).
The DM should feel free to come up with any arbitrary limitation they feel necessary to prevent players from breaking the campaign. However, they must still grant the Wish as close to the wording and intent of the wisher as possible within the limits set. If they are unwilling to do this much for a Limited Wish, then I humbly suggest giving the players one of the Wish options below instead.


Credit Limit Wish

Credit Limit Wishes are relatively simple. They can grant any request as worded and intended up to a certain monetary value, typically (4d4+4)x1000 gp. However, Credit Wishes with higher or lower limits are not unheard of and a DM should feel free to set whatever monetary limit they deem appropriate (whether by rolling different dice or just setting a flat rate). If requesting the effects of a spell, the Wish should treat the value as the wisher hiring a spellcaster to cast the spell for them at the going rate of an average hirable spellcaster capable of casting the spell. If wishing for the death of an enemy, price it as if hiring a generic local assassin or mercenary capable and willing to take the job. If wishing for something like a house, the Wish should take into account current market prices. The wisher is not allowed to haggle the price determined by the magic of the Wish. The wisher is not allowed to haggle the price determined by the magic of the Wish, nor are they compensated for any difference in value between their Wish and the monetary limit of the spell if they wish for less than the spell is capable of granting.


Half Wish

A Half Wish is exactly what it sounds like. The wisher gets exactly half of what they wish for, but which half might be up in the air for a few minutes and may depend on the choice of the wisher. For example, if the wisher desires to marry the beautiful princess and live happily ever after, they might marry the princess and lead a miserable life, marry someone else and live a happy life, or become the princess's concubine or secret lover and live a mediocre life that's neither particularly happy nor miserable.


Monkey's Paw Wish

A Monkey's Paw Wish follows the wisher's wording to the letter, but it completely subverts the intent of the Wish. For example, an elderly couple wishes for wealth so that they can live their remaining years comfortably and then will the rest to their son. However, the Wish grants their request in such a way that the wealth comes about as a result of their son's death, thus they get exactly what they asked for but in a manner that prevents them from getting what they wanted.
When granting a Monkey's Paw Wish, a DM should feel free to be as cruel and sadistic as possible in twisting, subverting, or even outright ignoring the intent behind the Wish. Because that's what a Monkey's Paw Wish is all about.


Overkill Wish

Overkill Wishes are textbook examples of 'be careful what you wish for'. If you wish for a burger, you might end up with a literal mountain of food dumped on you. If you wish to be free of a magical effect, the Wish might drop an Antimagic field on you that is many miles in radius and set to last for a few hundred years. It gets the job done, sure, but if an Overkill Wish is ever granted without potential long-term problems, likely severe ones, the DM may not be doing their job right.


'True Desire' Wish

Wishes that purport to grant the wisher's true desire manifest in odd and sometimes nonsensical ways. They will fulfill the underlying intent of the Wish, but they will always completely and deliberately ignore the wording. For example, if someone wishes to marry well with the intent that the marriage will bring glory and honor to themselves and their homeland, the wish will manifest in a way that makes the desired marriage impossible, but still allows the character to gain glory and honor for themselves and their homeland.


Hard of Hearing Wish

Hard of Hearing Wishes try their best to fulfill the underlying intent of the wisher's request, but they have an annoying tendency to misinterpret the wording of the wish in the most hilarious ways. DMs, your only guideline for this should be 'do whatever is funny'.


Reversal Wish

Reversal Wishes can be extremely dangerous. At first they seem to grant the wisher's request as intended, but after a period of time (1d10 days, months, years, or DM's discretion), the effects of the wish are inverted. A wish for riches invariably ends in poverty and destitution, a wish for loyalty will likely end in betrayal and a wish for love may turn to hate, resentment, or the dreaded 'let's just be friends' talk. The DM has full discretion on what it means to invert the effects of the wish.

JNAProductions
2018-02-27, 01:52 PM
Honestly, I've had one time players used Wish. And really, the best way to handle it is to just talk to them.

Let them know that Wish has limits, and that their characters don't know the same things they do. Also let them know that you'll do your best to follow the intent of the wish, not just the legalese wording, but also let them know that you have permission to outright veto wishes.

For instance, reasonable wishes might be:

OOC: "I wish my character had max HP for their hit dice."
IC: "I wish to have the durability and strength to outlast anyone else."

OOC: "I wish we were home and NOT ABOUT TO DEVOURED BY A DRAGON! So, you know, Teleport us all out without any chance of failure."
IC: "GET US OUT OF HERE!"

OOC: "I wish for a perfect disguise to infiltrate the palace."
IC: Same as OOC.

Unreasonable wishes could be:

OOC: "I wish I had an Ioun Stone of Mastery, and 20 of every stat book."
IC: Possibly impossible, since unless you've done research, your character may not even know these items exist.
Rationale: This would just straight up break game balance. +7 Prof and 30 in every stat does not a fun game make.

OOC: "I wish I had immunity to all damage."
IC: "I wish I was invincible."
Rationale: Again, gamebreaking. Sure, there's a couple save or sucks that still work, but by and large it negates any personal threat to the character. Not to mention, it's similar to a 9th level spell that lasts 10 minutes, so...

OOC: "I wish the BBEG was dead."
IC: "I wish Lysanderoth was dead."
Rationale: Assuming death is a threat to the BBEG, this shouldn't be allowed. One spell, solving the whole campaign? Not fun. Now, if death is merely an inconvenience to the BBEG or the BBEG is an entire organization, where another leader will arise as soon as the last is killed, it might be allowed, but this also raises the question of "Why doesn't the BBEG wish the PLAYERS dead?"

For each of these unacceptable wishes, I'd just tell the players "No, that won't work. I'll allow..."

Example 1: "A no rarer than rare magic item you know exists, but this brings out the 'might never cast wish again' clause."

Example 2: "You to cast Invincibility, which lasts 10 minutes and does just that, but this brings out the 'might never cast wish again' clause."

Example 3: "Not that. Besides, if I DID allow it, guess who else has access to wish and wants people (namely, you) dead? Lysanderoth."

jqavins
2018-02-27, 04:20 PM
My method has been:

If the intent is not game breaking and

the wording is reasonably careful and precise, then the wish is granted as intended.
the wording is careless, the wish is granted mostly as intended but with some annoying omission or side effect.
the wording is annoyingly excessive, the wish is granted mostly as intended but with some annoying omission or side effect because the wish granter was confused.
If the intent is abusive and

the wording has any loopholes, at least one loophole will be exploited to screw the wisher.
the wording is iron clad in its detail, nothing happens because the wish granter was bored to sleep.
That said, some of these wish alternatives are interesting and may have their places. Most would have to be foist upon PCs by dishonest granters or cursed items, and there should be some chance for cautious players to realize this, but if they don't then the chips fall. The credit limit wish could be revealed to the players and characters up front, by a lower powered granter; "Sorry, the best I can do is..."

I do have some quibbles with the credit limit wish. I think that, rather than the nearest caster, assassin, or mercenary it should use the "going rate." That is, if the duke wants his rival killed, and the job could be done, given the rival's status, defenses, levels, etc. for 150,000 g.p. at the market rate for assassinations, but The Nameless One who never takes any job for less than 1,000,000 g.p. happens to be in town (unbeknownst to anybody, as always) this should not mean that the assassination of the duke's rival would take 1,000,000 g.p. The same goes for a caster of higher level than a wished for spell requires, etc.

And finally, this is one of many situations in which I don't like how swingy some aspect of a thing is. 2d8×1000 can come out really crappy. I would use (1d8+8)×1000 g.p. or maybe (2d4+7)×1000 g.p. instead.

Ventruenox
2018-02-27, 04:45 PM
It sounds like the Dragon article you may be referencing is "Best Wishes" by Gary Snyder waaaaay back in May of 1981. Dragon #49.

By far the best article I have ever read regarding the wish spell, but

https://memegenerator.net/img/instances/23617522/you-dont-have-to-take-my-word-for-it.jpg (https://annarchive.com/files/Drmg049.pdf)

(embedded link for Crisis21)

Crisis21
2018-02-27, 05:41 PM
Thanks for everyone's input so far, especially the link provided by Ventruenox! Very interesting read that. I highly recommend it for any DM looking to have Wishes in their campaign, even if they don't feel inclined to take is as gospel.




I do have some quibbles with the credit limit wish. I think that, rather than the nearest caster, assassin, or mercenary it should use the "going rate." That is, if the duke wants his rival killed, and the job could be done, given the rival's status, defenses, levels, etc. for 150,000 g.p. at the market rate for assassinations, but The Nameless One who never takes any job for less than 1,000,000 g.p. happens to be in town (unbeknownst to anybody, as always) this should not mean that the assassination of the duke's rival would take 1,000,000 g.p. The same goes for a caster of higher level than a wished for spell requires, etc.

And finally, this is one of many situations in which I don't like how swingy some aspect of a thing is. 2d8×1000 can come out really crappy. I would use (1d8+8)×1000 g.p. or maybe (2d4+7)×1000 g.p. instead.

Thank you for your input. I have reworded the text of the Credit Limit Wish to imply the 'local average' rather than 'nearest available'. I also made the 'typical' monetary value to (4d4+4)x1000 because I literally pulled 2d8x1000 out of my butt (well, okay, not literally literally, but you get the idea) when putting this together originally. Still left room for a DM to make the limit whatever they felt like if they preferred.

Edit: Also added wording saying that if you wish for less than a Credit Wish is capable of granting, you don't get the difference.

Davrix
2018-02-27, 09:00 PM
Honestly, I've had one time players used Wish. And really, the best way to handle it is to just talk to them.

Let them know that Wish has limits, and that their characters don't know the same things they do. Also let them know that you'll do your best to follow the intent of the wish, not just the legalese wording, but also let them know that you have permission to outright veto wishes.

For instance, reasonable wishes might be:

OOC: "I wish my character had max HP for their hit dice."
IC: "I wish to have the durability and strength to outlast anyone else."

OOC: "I wish we were home and NOT ABOUT TO DEVOURED BY A DRAGON! So, you know, Teleport us all out without any chance of failure."
IC: "GET US OUT OF HERE!"

OOC: "I wish for a perfect disguise to infiltrate the palace."
IC: Same as OOC.

Unreasonable wishes could be:

OOC: "I wish I had an Ioun Stone of Mastery, and 20 of every stat book."
IC: Possibly impossible, since unless you've done research, your character may not even know these items exist.
Rationale: This would just straight up break game balance. +7 Prof and 30 in every stat does not a fun game make.

OOC: "I wish I had immunity to all damage."
IC: "I wish I was invincible."
Rationale: Again, gamebreaking. Sure, there's a couple save or sucks that still work, but by and large it negates any personal threat to the character. Not to mention, it's similar to a 9th level spell that lasts 10 minutes, so...

OOC: "I wish the BBEG was dead."
IC: "I wish Lysanderoth was dead."
Rationale: Assuming death is a threat to the BBEG, this shouldn't be allowed. One spell, solving the whole campaign? Not fun. Now, if death is merely an inconvenience to the BBEG or the BBEG is an entire organization, where another leader will arise as soon as the last is killed, it might be allowed, but this also raises the question of "Why doesn't the BBEG wish the PLAYERS dead?"

For each of these unacceptable wishes, I'd just tell the players "No, that won't work. I'll allow..."

Example 1: "A no rarer than rare magic item you know exists, but this brings out the 'might never cast wish again' clause."

Example 2: "You to cast Invincibility, which lasts 10 minutes and does just that, but this brings out the 'might never cast wish again' clause."

Example 3: "Not that. Besides, if I DID allow it, guess who else has access to wish and wants people (namely, you) dead? Lysanderoth."

This is all super sound advice and any DM should follow it when it comes to wish. But the point i want to stress the most is TALKING to the DM. Taking a moment and asking what you want done and having a logically discussion solves so many problems with wish. And you never know what the DM will allow or reward for creative thought. Hell I'm getting to play as an ancient Gold dragon in a upcoming one shot campaign because i talked to my Dm about using wish on my lv 20 wizard to cheese a few idea's. We talked how it would work, rolled on some tables he made up and came up with a backstory of why and what happened during that period I was using high end magic to get my way. It turned out to be a really fun and meaningful narrative that's defined the character from the get go. But this is only because I talked to him instead of at the table trying to go. I wish to be an ancient gold dragon, blah blah blah.