What if...fantasy races and magic showed up on Earth in the year 1300

[Curunir471]

Hello Playgrounders,

So, as the title says, what if the event that created Shadowrun (dragons showed up again to Earth and brought magic back with them) had happened in the year 1300, with the exception that all of the races popped up over the course of a week, not years. Funny thing is this was very influential with royal families, lots of half elves, dwelves, stuff like that. This is the premise of my new campaign that I have coming up. My new problem is that I need to decide where each race is going to be from. I have a map from a historian of the time period, labeled with the current political layout (read countries/tribal lands).


http://www.worldhistorymaps.info/images/East-Hem_1300ad.jpg


I have a couple of countries pegged:

India: Goblins, Hobgoblins, Bugbears: I like the stratified caste system that they have there for goblinsoid.
Japan: Dwarves and Halflings: Honor Code for nobles and samurai dwarves, halflings for farming/family style
Indonesia/ other Southeast Asian Islands(now floating): Kor
Wales: Elves: for the archers


So if the dragons are attempting to establish power (regular D&D dragons, not Shadowrun dragons) in a world that has just gotten magic for the first time in millennia. Only 100 people in the world have arcane magic at this exact moment, 2 of which are our characters. Divine magic is more common.

What other countries from that map should go with what races? The most important one is the mogols...what race should that be? Orcs might make sense...

So I leave you with that my intelligent and wise playground compatriots. Ideas are welcome.

[Consensus]

I'd probably avoid mapping races to specific countries in the world as it has pretty unfortunate connotations. I'd just go with people sort of randomly becoming fantasy races regardless of race and see where that takes the setting

[Arvin Natsuko]

Just don't. Seriously.

[Curunir471]

I'd probably avoid mapping races to specific countries in the world as it has pretty unfortunate connotations. I'd just go with people sort of randomly becoming fantasy races regardless of race and see where that takes the setting

OK, so focus more on the individuals than the countries, that I can do.

Any interesting historical events to play with that the Playground can remember?

[bid]

What other countries from that map should go with what races? The most important one is the mogols...what race should that be? Orcs might make sense...
Considering that going from Thuringia to Provence might take a year, dumping dwarves to Japan is the same as not having them.

Beyond pilgrim's road (Way of St-James) and other roman leftovers, mobility is extremely limited at that time. Sure, if you are going to the Holy Lands you can get traveller's check from the Templar. That's about it.

Putting Elves in Whales because bow is going backward. If the arrival points are somewhat planned, I'm sure Elves would rather end up in forested lands.

Second, nations aren't what they are today. If a tribe of dwarves take control of the Vivarais or the Venaissin, who knows what will happen. It's more political maneuvers between the Count of Toulouse and the Count of Provence, who might not even align with the Capetian and HRE plans.


So, don't go by country, but by land type. Distribute your dwarves kingdoms wherever there are mountains and highlands.

[bid]

Any interesting historical events to play with that the Playground can remember?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/13th_century

1204 - sack of Byzantine Constantinople

And please don't play a Reconquista against muslim orcs. :smallyuk:

[Curunir471]

Considering that going from Thuringia to Provence might take a year, dumping dwarves to Japan is the same as not having them.

Beyond pilgrim's road (Way of St-James) and other roman leftovers, mobility is extremely limited at that time. Sure, if you are going to the Holy Lands you can get traveller's check from the Templar. That's about it.

Putting Elves in Whales because bow is going backward. If the arrival points are somewhat planned, I'm sure Elves would rather end up in forested lands.

Second, nations aren't what they are today. If a tribe of dwarves take control of the Vivarais or the Venaissin, who knows what will happen. It's more political maneuvers between the Count of Toulouse and the Count of Provence, who might not even align with the Capetian and HRE plans.


So, don't go by country, but by land type. Distribute your dwarves kingdoms wherever there are mountains and highlands.

I like it! This is so much more elegant than the solution I was working towards.

[Quoxis]

It’s already been said: why put races into certain countries/tribes? Your inspiration was shadowrun, look how they did it - around „the awakening“, children were born with fantasy race traits, later human children „goblinized“ into orcs etc., all were shunned for the initial years, but are now normal members of society. Why mess with what’s certifiably working?
I‘d go the other way: elves come from all over the world, but do they want to stay where they are, or will they band together and conquer/found their own nation to live in (Tir Tairngire in the original)? What about other races? Will the orcs band together with the goblins (like orcs and trolls in shadowrun‘s „black forest troll kingdom“), or will they fight each other about petty things, or will they try to convince the human population they’re peaceful and no threat to them? How about interracial stuff? How do the dwarves see the elves - are they fellow freaks of nature or are they the winners of the genetic lottery because they’re more beautiful with innate magic instead of small and klutzy?
Are goblins allowed to move into elven countries/villages? How about orcs, dwarves, halflings etc.? Are there bonds between the races (for example halflings and gnomes who founded a place called „the shire“ where the live in subterranean houses too small for the other races) that play a role in racial nations?
How will humans react to the other races? Separate the green tusky man from society, force him into labor because he’s as strong as 5 of them but dumb and lazy (no racism intended, but full orcs have difficulties getting up in the morning according to half-orc lore in the phb.), or are they glad they have a loyal member of their village become this strong warrior? Are dwarves renowned for their natural talents with stone and metal or laughed at as freaks with their misshapen bodies and body hair? Are gnomes and their trickery accepted as jesters or thought of as witches that eat babies and poison wells (as history has proven, even having red hair can make people assume those things, let alone the fact that gnomes can really cast magic)? How do the races in return react to that? Are they accepting their fate, do they try to reason with people to be more accepted, do they retreat from the world and live as outcasts, do they fight? And: do all societies work the same?
Maybe the anglo-saxons see gnomes as leprechauns of their fables and even though it’s been shown gnomes don’t carry a pot of gold with them, they’re accepted more easily than, say, an orc who they mistake for a bidge troll? Pre-existing folklore may play a role in this, and folklore varies between cultures.

My tip: look at the source material. Translate shadowrun into medieval times - many events that have been established have to do with racism or magic, stuff that‘s independent of technology and age of humankind, so look how you can alter the existing world to fit your idea instead of creating a new one. Especially the fact that shadowrun already uses the real world geographically and historically is useful there.

[GreyBlack]

..... IF I were to do something like this (and this is a big if), I would do something more like these races spontaneously appeared, without any regard to where they are best associated. Like, rift in spacetime made these races spontaneously appear. So, the struggle becomes more adapting to these new neighbors than it is about how humans grew up alongside these new races.

Seriously, could you imagine how the Umayyads and the Abassids having to deal with dwarves spontaneously appearing in the Arabian peninsula? Marauding elves during the Hundred Year's War?

[Tetrasodium]

It would depend largely on how they came around. On a relevant note, the connor grey seties (https://www.goodreads.com/series/42290-connor-grey) focuses on a world where the magical races of faerie (minus the humas who were there) suddenly show up on earth with very little/no memories of the events leading up to the collision that dumped them on our earth in... the 80s(?) explores the cultural collisions sine he's kind of a detectiveish druid.

given the 1300s level of technology, it wpuld not be pretty if magic was even remotely powerful.

[Lvl 2 Expert]

I think there is a certain something to the races by nations idea, but it should probably be allowed to evolve more naturally. The Mongols for instance hold a huge amount of terrain. There are going to be plenty of groups of fantasy creatures turning up. A platoon of elven archers here, an orc orphanage there. These people are lost and far from home, and if they're smart they're not going to take an us vs the world attitude, but are open to cooperation. Any groups that fit the nomadic way of life could become part of the Mongolian trade caravans. Their armies are always looking for good mounted archers, in real life they allowed women to join on occasion, so why not lizard folk, if they have the right skill set? Groups that thrive in order and civilization might go help run their cities, like the Chinese bureaucrats from who the Mongols learned the art of managing an empire. Over time that means that some races will start being a common occurrence in some places, moving to where they fit in best, while others go somewhere else. If the campaign allows for some time jumps you could show things shifting into some sort of natural order over a few decades. That's faster than anything like this would go in real life, probably, but it's a nice compromise with the lifespan of a PC. Personally I'm getting giggles from imagining families of orcs ending up in high places in the real knightly Western European traditions, like France. They'd adopt a strong ideal of honor, moving into some middle ground between the ideal romantic knight and a klingon. Like some of the better Game of Thrones characters, basically. It has the side effect that by the present day most monarchies would have at least some orc blood in them. "King not amused, smash stupid orange toilet, for honor!"

[smcmike]

I'd probably avoid mapping races to specific countries in the world as it has pretty unfortunate connotations. I'd just go with people sort of randomly becoming fantasy races regardless of race and see where that takes the setting

Yeah. Just don’t do it.

I also seriously do not understand this idea - when magic comes into the world, people are turning into various fantasy races, is that it? So, like, they were people, but now they shrank 3 feet and are halflings, but with the same culture that they previously had? Do their houses magically turn into burrows?

Also, the world was very big in 1300. If dwarves and halflings live in Japan, and your campaign is in Germany, you do not have dwarves or halflings in your campaign.

[Curunir471]

It’s already been said: why put races into certain countries/tribes? Your inspiration was shadowrun, look how they did it - around „the awakening“, children were born with fantasy race traits, later human children „goblinized“ into orcs etc., all were shunned for the initial years, but are now normal members of society. Why mess with what’s certifiably working?
I‘d go the other way: elves come from all over the world, but do they want to stay where they are, or will they band together and conquer/found their own nation to live in (Tir Tairngire in the original)? What about other races? Will the orcs band together with the goblins (like orcs and trolls in shadowrun‘s „black forest troll kingdom“), or will they fight each other about petty things, or will they try to convince the human population they’re peaceful and no threat to them? How about interracial stuff? How do the dwarves see the elves - are they fellow freaks of nature or are they the winners of the genetic lottery because they’re more beautiful with innate magic instead of small and klutzy?
Are goblins allowed to move into elven countries/villages? How about orcs, dwarves, halflings etc.? Are there bonds between the races (for example halflings and gnomes who founded a place called „the shire“ where the live in subterranean houses too small for the other races) that play a role in racial nations?
How will humans react to the other races? Separate the green tusky man from society, force him into labor because he’s as strong as 5 of them but dumb and lazy (no racism intended, but full orcs have difficulties getting up in the morning according to half-orc lore in the phb.), or are they glad they have a loyal member of their village become this strong warrior? Are dwarves renowned for their natural talents with stone and metal or laughed at as freaks with their misshapen bodies and body hair? Are gnomes and their trickery accepted as jesters or thought of as witches that eat babies and poison wells (as history has proven, even having red hair can make people assume those things, let alone the fact that gnomes can really cast magic)? How do the races in return react to that? Are they accepting their fate, do they try to reason with people to be more accepted, do they retreat from the world and live as outcasts, do they fight? And: do all societies work the same?
Maybe the anglo-saxons see gnomes as leprechauns of their fables and even though it’s been shown gnomes don’t carry a pot of gold with them, they’re accepted more easily than, say, an orc who they mistake for a bidge troll? Pre-existing folklore may play a role in this, and folklore varies between cultures.

My tip: look at the source material. Translate shadowrun into medieval times - many events that have been established have to do with racism or magic, stuff that‘s independent of technology and age of humankind, so look how you can alter the existing world to fit your idea instead of creating a new one. Especially the fact that shadowrun already uses the real world geographically and historically is useful there.

This is very helpful, I'm probably going to have to research shadowrun more for this to go well.


Personally I'm getting giggles from imagining families of orcs ending up in high places in the real knightly Western European traditions, like France. They'd adopt a strong ideal of honor, moving into some middle ground between the ideal romantic knight and a klingon. Like some of the better Game of Thrones characters, basically. It has the side effect that by the present day most monarchies would have at least some orc blood in them. "King not amused, smash stupid orange toilet, for honor!"

I had the same thought, except with the king waking up to find out that he's an elf and his son is a half-orc, mom must have played the field!


I also seriously do not understand this idea - when magic comes into the world, people are turning into various fantasy races, is that it? So, like, they were people, but now they shrank 3 feet and are halflings, but with the same culture that they previously had? Do their houses magically turn into burrows?

Also, the world was very big in 1300. If dwarves and halflings live in Japan, and your campaign is in Germany, you do not have dwarves or halflings in your campaign.

Imagine if, tomorrow you woke up and you were an elf. Your house is the same, car, job, ps4/Xbox, just you changed. That's what happened, the people will have to adapt, which is what humans(and people who grew up as humans) do.

Also, magic. Dwarves and halflings will get their fair share of divine magic. They'll just have to get some tempest clerics to help them sail faster.

[the_brazenburn]

Okay, here's what happens.

Orcs appear in Scandinavia, giants in Scandinavia, Iceland, and Greenland, and dwarves in Germany. Elves can be found in Italy and France, and also a small group of eladrin and other fey in Ireland. England is mostly unharmed, but halflings begin to appear in Wales, and goblinoids in Scotland.

As England and France are at war now (the Hundred Years' War), the elvish strike forces, including mages, will destroy the English knights. The most significant English victories occurred at Crécy and Agincourt, which were accomplished mostly by the use of the longbow. The English will not have this advantage, as elves are even more effective archers who will decimate the lightly armored archers, which have inferior weaponry and skills. Thus, the Hundred Years' War will be more like the 5 Years' War, with France as the clear victors.

With the English army crushed, orc raids will become more frequent, and goblins will swarm out from Scotland by the thousands, conquering most of Northern England. With England wiped out, Scotland in control of most of Britain, and elves covering most of the territory of the Roman Catholic Church, France and Italy are likely to have control over much of Europe. The combination of elvish technology and Roman classics is likely to have the Renaissance, or a version of it, come about much sooner than would be expected, with magic as its basis instead of science. Roman Catholic priests might be trained in arcane magic, and the dwarves, united under a Martin Luther-like figure, might revolt, causing a second Protestant Reformation. With no Henry the Eighth (the War of the Roses never occurred, due to the Plantagenet kings being killed by the Scottish goblins), there is, however, no Anglican reformation, and the elvish Counter-Reformation quickly quashes the resistance to the Church. If Sicilian drow are involved, this might involve a genocide of the dwarves similar to the Holocaust (Tolkien specifically said that dwarves were supposed to be Semitic).

In the end, the world would look similar to Eberron today, with magic-powered technology in the place of electronics. it would also likely speak some form of Romance language, probably a conglomerate of Elvish, French, and Italian, and English influence on the world would be near-nonexistent. It would also be likely to be united under the Catholic Church, possibly with Corellon as a fourth member of the Holy Trinity.

I specifically excluded the rest of the world to focus on Europe. This would be far too complicated with more than one continent.

What do you think of this scenario?

[Iados]

Yeah. Just don’t do it.

Yup. This is problematic at best. Even if we overlook the obvious unfortunate implications, assigning fantasy races to specific geographical locations really limits the opportunity to play as and/or interact with the various races D&D has to offer. Unless your characters are the in-game equivalent of Marco Polo or Ahmad ibn Fadlan, they're never going to encounter more than one non-Human group.

Another thing to consider is that such a scenario necessitates several centuries of warfare and attempted (and possibly successful) genocide between the different races. Considering that people committed terrible atrocities against one another in the 13th century simply because they had a different interpretation of the same Abrahamic deity, the appearance of genuinely different races would be a casus belli for most Human societies. Obviously, a DM can rule that this alternative Earth is magically more tolerant than the real thing was, but if you're looking to incorporate a fantasy scenario with actual 13th-century sentiments, the end result will more closely resemble 40K (without the technology) than Shadowrun. It'll be "Destroy the Xenos!" meets "Deus vult!"

[Consensus]

Okay, here's what happens.

Orcs appear in Scandinavia, giants in Scandinavia, Iceland, and Greenland, and dwarves in Germany. Elves can be found in Italy and France, and also a small group of eladrin and other fey in Ireland. England is mostly unharmed, but halflings begin to appear in Wales, and goblinoids in Scotland.

As England and France are at war now (the Hundred Years' War), the elvish strike forces, including mages, will destroy the English knights. The most significant English victories occurred at Crécy and Agincourt, which were accomplished mostly by the use of the longbow. The English will not have this advantage, as elves are even more effective archers who will decimate the lightly armored archers, which have inferior weaponry and skills. Thus, the Hundred Years' War will be more like the 5 Years' War, with France as the clear victors.

With the English army crushed, orc raids will become more frequent, and goblins will swarm out from Scotland by the thousands, conquering most of Northern England. With England wiped out, Scotland in control of most of Britain, and elves covering most of the territory of the Roman Catholic Church, France and Italy are likely to have control over much of Europe. The combination of elvish technology and Roman classics is likely to have the Renaissance, or a version of it, come about much sooner than would be expected, with magic as its basis instead of science. Roman Catholic priests might be trained in arcane magic, and the dwarves, united under a Martin Luther-like figure, might revolt, causing a second Protestant Reformation. With no Henry the Eighth (the War of the Roses never occurred, due to the Plantagenet kings being killed by the Scottish goblins), there is, however, no Anglican reformation, and the elvish Counter-Reformation quickly quashes the resistance to the Church. If Sicilian drow are involved, this might involve a genocide of the dwarves similar to the Holocaust (Tolkien specifically said that dwarves were supposed to be Semitic).

In the end, the world would look similar to Eberron today, with magic-powered technology in the place of electronics. it would also likely speak some form of Romance language, probably a conglomerate of Elvish, French, and Italian, and English influence on the world would be near-nonexistent. It would also be likely to be united under the Catholic Church, possibly with Corellon as a fourth member of the Holy Trinity.

I specifically excluded the rest of the world to focus on Europe. This would be far too complicated with more than one continent.

What do you think of this scenario?

The placements feel a bit arbitrary and the races strangely united, as in non of them have any in fighting, also the giants don't do anything. On the whole it's an interesting scenario that makes me think of neat setting ideas. The most unbelievable thing here is that the Catholic church would adopt Corellon, unless elves act completely catholic in all but name, the best I see that turning out is a recognition that corellion is just another name for the Abrahamic god.

[KorvinStarmast]

Try some out of the box thinking.

Make the center of your world Persia/Iran/Il-Khanate. Why? It's near to the middle of the map, it has deserts, mountains, swamps, and coasts.

Expand out in circles from there.

[Curunir471]

Try some out of the box thinking.

Make the center of your world Persia/Iran/Il-Khanate. Why? It's near to the middle of the map, it has deserts, mountains, swamps, and coasts.

Expand out in circles from there.

I'm thinking of using southeast Asia as the core of what they're doing.

[KorvinStarmast]

I'm thinking of using southeast Asia as the core of what they're doing. OK, the center of the world is Southeast Asia: Cambodia? Thailand? Angkhor Wat? Southern China?

[Curunir471]

OK, the center of the world is Southeast Asia: Cambodia? Thailand? Angkhor Wat? Southern China?

Probably starting them in Thailand then have them head back on the silk road towards Europe, not set on it, just thinking.

[Vogie]

I think the main problem is that you're too wide, and it's turning your focus into nearly racist or culturist nightmares.

If you narrow your focus, you'd basically eliminate all of that.

For example, just focus on a single location, such as a portion of India, or just the four main islands that make up what we now call Japan. Elves, halflings, orcs, dwarves and bugbears all show up in a specified chunk of preColonized area of America, and how they react to or integrate with the handful of Native American tribes in that Area. Just the Indigenous peoples of the Great Plains (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plains_Indians), for example, have over 25 different tribes. That way you have a large enough area to have interesting interactions, but small enough that you can do some deep research on the peoples of that area and represent them in a correct light.