Ghost Cleric Master of Animate Objects and Planar Binding

[RoboEmperor]

I finally managed to put every single thing I want to do in d&d into one character! I still can't even believe that I actually did it!

Special thanks goes to Anthrowhale for all his help with my builds and threads in the past. Seriously man, thanks!

Optimization Goals
1. Earliest Possible access to a Ravid's Animate Objects (Su) ability (Level 6!)
2. Earliest Possible Safe Planar Binding with a 100% success rate!

Playstyle
Levels 1-5 - Conjure Ice Beast Cleric. Use Illumian Words to extend two of these for free or Creation Domain to boost their duration.
Levels 6-10 - Play as a Gargantuan Animated Object.
Levels 11-14 - Bind Ember Guards and Steel Predators and have them fight stuff for me while I stay safe inside my Gargantuan Animated Object. Ember Guards and Steel Predators look like robots.
Levels 15+ - Bind Balors, Paeliryons, Pit Fiends, or some other awesome outsider and have them fight stuff for me while I stay safe inside my Gargantuan Animated Object.

Class: A mix of Cleric and Eidoloncer (Ghostwalk). Probably Cleric6/Eidoloncer6 into Cleric11/Eidoloncer9. This means suicide at level 6 and raise dead at level 12 followed immediately by another suicide.
Cleric: Access to the all important Surge of Fortune spell and access to Planar Binding via Demonic Domain. Since I will end up being a pure 20 cleric I might as well be a Negative Energy Cleric to take full advantage of my Control Undead ability to control a small squad of Shadows. Its like the only advantage of going a pure cleric compared to PrCing out every class level you have.
Eidoloncer: As a ghost I can only advance in this class to advance my spellcasting.

Race: Illumian/Ghost (Races of Destiny/Ghostwalk)

Pros
+Very Straightforward, no shenanigans
+Extended Conjure Ice Beast I at level 2 twice per day.
Cons
-100% dependent on NPC wizards for anyspell. So completely civilization dependent.
-Really weak at level 1.

Power Sigils
Hoon (“life”): +1 bonus on Wisdom and Constitution checks,
Naen (“mind”): +1 bonus on Intelligence checks.
Naenhoon: Twice per day copy DMM:Persist except not restricted to divine spells

Domains:
Demonic - Access to Planar Binding spells, Demonflesh which gives Natural Armor which is huge because Clerics don't have access to natural armor boosting spells, and Demon Wings for flight. Demonic Domain is a freaking amazing domain.
Spell - Access to Alter Self via Anyspell along with other useful spells like the repair damage line of spells and Mask of the Ideal.

Alternate Class Feature:
Spontaneous Domain Casting: Demonic Domain - Ability to cast all spells in the Demonic Domain spontaneously using any non-domain spell slot and lets me prepare inflict spells in my domain spell slot. Replaces my ability to spontaneously cast inflict spells. This means I can cast as many planar bindings as I want and since I am never going to cast a single inflict wound spell, ever, there is literally no reason not to take this ACF.

Ability Scores:
25 Point Buy
STR 9
DEX 8
CON 10 - Identical to a 14 con wizard or sorcerer... so play like a 14 con wizard or sorcerer instead of a cleric!
INT 14 - Concentration, Knowledge:Religion, Knowledge:ThePlanes, and Spellcraft. Starting Bonus Language is Celestial and Infernal.
WIS 14 - Just need a +1 WIS somewhere to keep my spellcasting unhindered. Extract Gift, Periapt of Wisdom, or Tome of Understanding.
CHA 16 - 3 + 3 = 6, enough turn attempts for one persist via Naenhoon Illumian Word.

Feats
1 Extend Spell
3 Persistent Spell
6 Assume Supernatural Ability
9 Infernal Bargainer
12 Spell Focus:Conjuration
15 Demon Mastery
18 Greater Spell Focus:Conjuration
(If going epic) Eschew Materials for Ignore Material Components instead of Greater Spell Focus:Conjuration

Skills
Concentration - To cast Conjure Ice Beast early levels
Knowledge:Religion - For Epic Levels
Knowledge:ThePlanes - To know the existence of outsiders I am going to bind.
Spellcraft - For Epic Levels
Speak Language - Take points from Concentration to learn Abyssal, Terran, Ignan, Auran, and Aquan for fun.
Use Magic Device - 1 Take points from concentration. A single rank lets you hit 36 with Divine Insight and Surge of Fortune.
Use Psionic Device - 1 Take points from concentration. A single rank lets you hit 36 with Divine Insight and Surge of Fortune.

Planar Binding Save DC
Level 9: 10 + 5 (Spell Level) + 3 (Wisdom Modifier) + 2 (Owl's Wisdom) = 20
Level 11: 10 + 6 (Spell Level) + 3 (Wisdom Modifier) + 2 (Owl's Wisdom) = 21
Level 12: 10 + 6 (Spell Level) + 3 (Wisdom Modifier) + 2 (Owl's Wisdom) + 1 (Spell Focus:Conjuration) = 22
Level 15: 10 + 8 (Spell Level) + 3 (Wisdom Modifier) + 2 (Owl's Wisdom) + 1 (Spell Focus:Conjuration) = 24
Level 16: 10 + 8 (Spell Level) + 4 (Wisdom Modifier) + 2 (Owl's Wisdom) + 1 (Spell Focus:Conjuration) = 25
Level 17: 10 + 8 (Spell Level) + 4 (Wisdom Modifier) + 2 (Owl's Wisdom) + 1 (Spell Focus:Conjuration) + 4 (Owl's Insight via Miracle) = 29
Level 18: 10 + 8 (Spell Level) + 4 (Wisdom Modifier) + 2 (Owl's Wisdom) + 2 (Greater Spell Focus:Conjuration) + 4 (Owl's Insight via Miracle) = 30
Level 20: 10 + 8 (Spell Level) + 4 (Wisdom Modifier) + 2 (Owl's Wisdom) + 2 (Greater Spell Focus:Conjuration) + 5 (Owl's Insight via Miracle) = 31

Race: Changeling/Ghost (Races of Eberron/Ghostwalk)

Pros
+Transformation Domain is absolutely crazy
+Creation Domain makes your level 1 cleric crazy powerful
+Completely Self-Sufficient and Independent of Society
+Retraining rules make sense in-universe. Changelings adapt to everything, and a changeling with the planning domain is sure to plan all his domains out and adapt depending on his level.
+Changelings are fun to play.
Cons
-Uses retraining rules extensively.
-Retraining so that you keep Transformation domain and DMM:Persist is a huge, huge process.
-No concentration due to a lack of skill points.

Domains:
Planning Domain - Extend Spell for free. Allows DMM:Persist at level 3. Swap out for Transformation Domain at 12.
Creation Domain - Triples your Conjure Ice Beast I's power. Swap out for Transformation Domain at level 3. Spontaneous Domain Casting applied here so it can be applied to Transformation Domain at level 3 and Demonic Domain at level 9.
Transformation Domain - Access to Alter Self. Ludicrously powerful domain. Has Polymorph, PaO, and Shapechange. Doppelganger Transformation can be persisted for +4 WIS and +2 Charisma, solving all low ability score problems. Swap out for Demonic Domain at 9, and re-acquire it at level 12.
Demonic - Access to Planar Binding spells, Demonflesh which gives Natural Armor which is huge because Clerics don't have access to natural armor boosting spells, and Demon Wings for flight. Demonic Domain is a freaking amazing domain.

Alternate Class Feature:
Spontaneous Domain Casting: Demonic Domain - Ability to cast all spells in the Demonic Domain spontaneously using any non-domain spell slot and lets me prepare inflict spells in my domain spell slot. Replaces my ability to spontaneously cast inflict spells. This means I can cast as many planar bindings as I want and since I am never going to cast a single inflict wound spell, ever, there is literally no reason not to take this ACF.
Note: Applied to Creation Domain at start, and when I swap it out for Transformation Domain, I can apply it to Transformation Domain because the choice of domain for this ACF is "Permanent until you lose access to the domain." Transformation Domain is then swapped out for Demonic Domain.

Ability Scores:
25 Point Buy
STR 8
DEX 8
CON 10 - Identical to a 14 con wizard or sorcerer... so play like a 14 con wizard or sorcerer instead of a cleric!
INT 12 - Knowledge:Religion, Knowledge:ThePlanes, and Spellcraft. Starting Bonus Language is Terran. Had to give up Concentration for a higher charisma score.
WIS 14 - I need +2 WIS somewhere to keep my spellcasting unhindered at higher levels. Extract Gift, Periapt of Wisdom, or Tome of Understanding. Ekolid is a 6hd outsider with 18 wis, just enough for a +2 WIS from extract gift. Dropped from 15 for a higher charisma score.
CHA 17 - Level 4 ability score increase goes here. 3 + 4 = 7, just enough turn attempts for one DMM:Persist.

Feats Pre-retraining
1 Persistent Spell
3 Divine Metamagic:Persistent Spell
6 Assume Supernatural Ability
9 Infernal Bargainer

Retraining
At 9 retrain Transformation Domain to Demonic Domain, grab Infernal Bargainer - You can stop here if you want
At 10 retrain DMM:Persistent Spell with Spell Focus:Conjuration
At 11 retrain Persistent Spell with Rapid Spell
At 12 retrain Planning Domain for Transformation Domain, grab Demon mastery
At 13 retrain Rapid Spell with Extend Spell
At 14 retrain Spell Focus:Conjuration with Persistent Spell
At 15 grab DMM:Persistent Spell

Feats Post-retraining
1 Extend Spell
3 Persistent Spell
6 Assume Supernatural Ability
9 Infernal Bargainer
12 Demon Mastery
15 Divine Metamagic:Persistent Spell
18 Spell Focus:Conjuration

(If going epic) Eschew Materials for Ignore Material Components instead of Spell Focus:Conjuration

Skills
Knowledge:Religion - For Epic Levels
Knowledge:ThePlanes - To know the existence of outsiders I am going to bind.
Spellcraft - For Epic Levels
Speak Language - Take points from Knowledge:ThePlanes to learn Celestial, Infernal, Abyssal, Ignan, Auran, and Aquan for fun. Only 6 ranks since changelings always have Speak Language as a class skill. Knowledge:ThePlanes is chosen because I can boost this via Divine Insight (+15 insight) and Demoncall (+10 profane) for a whopping +25.
Use Magic Device - 1 Take points from Knowledge:ThePlanes. A single rank lets you hit 36 with Divine Insight and Surge of Fortune.
Use Psionic Device - 1 Take points from Knowledge:ThePlanes. A single rank lets you hit 36 with Divine Insight and Surge of Fortune.

Planar Binding Save DC
Level 9: 10 + 5 (Spell Level) + 2 (Wisdom Modifier) + 2 (Owl's Wisdom) = 19
Level 10: 10 + 5 (Spell Level) + 2 (Wisdom Modifier) + 2 (Owl's Wisdom) +1 (Spell Focus:Conjuration) = 20
Level 11: 10 + 6 (Spell Level) + 2 (Wisdom Modifier) + 2 (Owl's Wisdom) +1 (Spell Focus:Conjuration) = 21
Level 12: 10 + 6 (Spell Level) + 3 (Wisdom Modifier) + 2 (Owl's Wisdom) +1 (Spell Focus:Conjuration) = 22
Level 14: 10 + 6 (Spell Level) + 3 (Wisdom Modifier) + 2 (Owl's Wisdom) = 21
Level 15: 10 + 8 (Spell Level) + 3 (Wisdom Modifier) + 2 (Owl's Wisdom) = 23
Level 17: 10 + 8 (Spell Level) + 3 (Wisdom Modifier) + 2 (Owl's Wisdom) + 4 (Owl's Insight via Miracle) = 27
Level 18: 10 + 8 (Spell Level) + 3 (Wisdom Modifier) + 2 (Owl's Wisdom) + 1 (Spell Focus:Conjuration) + 4 (Owl's Insight via Miracle) = 28
Level 20: 10 + 8 (Spell Level) + 4 (Wisdom Modifier) + 2 (Owl's Wisdom) + 1 (Spell Focus:Conjuration) + 5 (Owl's Insight via Miracle) = 30

The Game Winning Combo 1
1. Create an assemble-able Gargantuan Stone Statue by spamming Stone Shape or Unseen Crafter.
2. As a ghost (outsider), cast Alter Self via Anyspell or Transformation Domain to turn into a Ravid at level 6.
3. Use Illumian Word: Naenhoon or Divine Metamagic:Persistent Spell to extend Alter Self's duration to 24 hours, or 48 hours by stacking it with Extend Spell
4. Use Assume Supernatural Ability to use the Ravid's CL20 Animate Object Aura to perpetually animate the Gargantuan Stone Statue all day and play as a Giant Robot for the rest of the game!

Use squeezing rules, the Shrink Collar, or disassemble and re-assemble the Gargantuan Stone Statue to move through tight spaces. Worst Case Scenario, bind a Rejkar and have him drill a gargantuan hole in the dungeon with his at-will fabricate.

The Game Winning Combo 2
1. Planar Bind an Outsider.
2. Cast Surge of Fortune.
3. Activate Surge of Fortune so you roll an automatic 20 on the charisma check with the outsider.
Results:
a. Impossible to roll a 1, so outsiders never break free. Safest possible Planar Binding.
b. If your charisma modifier is +1 more than your opponent's then you have a 100% win chance.

Charisma Check Bonus
Eagle's Splendor - +2
Demon Mastery - +2

Circlet of Persuasion - +3
Tome of Leadership and Influence +4 - +2 - Ludicrously expensive.
Cloak of Charisma +6 - +3 - Doesn't stack with Eagle's Splendor.

(via Miracle)
Mask of the Ideal - +4 - Doesn't stack with Circlet of Persuasion. True seeing negates.
Paladin's spell Righteous Aura - +2 sacred bonus
Bard's spell Snowsong - +2 Morale bonus
Bard's spell Nixie's Grace - +4 enhancement bonus to Charisma; doesn't stack with Eagle's Splendor
Devil's Ego - +2 profane bonus

Ghost Feats
Ectoplasm
Shape Ectoplasm - Ghost Equipment, Ectoplasm Animated Object
Temper Ectoplasm - Ghost Metal Equipment

Incorporeal Form
Ethereal Sidestep - at-will dimension door

Solid Visage - Look alive

Source Books
Mandatory
Ghostwalk - Ghost Template, Eidoloncer
Fiendish Codex I - Demonic Domain, Demon Mastery
Complete Arcane - Persistent Spell
Savage Species - Assume Supernatural Ability
Spell Compendium - Spell Domain, Planning Domain, Owl's Insight, Nixie's Grace, Righteous Aura

Races of Destiny - Illumian

Races of Eberron - Changeling, Transformation Domain
Player's Handbook II - Spontaneous Domain Casting, Retraining Rules
Complete Divine - Divine Metamagic, Rapid Spell

Optional
Races of Faerun - Infernal Bargainer
Frostburn - Conjure Ice Beast, Snowsong
Monster Manual V - Ember Guards

Fiendish Codex II - Devil's Ego, Paelyrions
Complete Mage - Mask of the Ideal

[Anthrowhale]

Thanks.

There are some difficulties though. One is that Anyspell lets you cast arcane spells which are ineligible for DMM. Another is that DMM[Persist] requires 7(=6+1) Turn Undeads.

You can solve both issues simultaneously by being an Naenhoon Illumian instead. You can also get an extra 2 turn undead cheaply via Reliquary Holy Symbol (1k gp). At a more expensive price point, a nightstick (4k gp) provides for extra turn undeads. And a rod of extend spell can allow you to keep more persistent spells active at the same time.

A third issue is that it's difficult _stay_ inside the animated object because you and the animated object do not naturally move at the same time or in the same way. It's reasonable to punt on this and just plan to hide as desired. If you want the possessing-spirit effect, then you need Ghost Ride, Expanded Possession, Minor Malevolence.

Note thought that a Ravid can animate as the spell 1/round and the spell lasts for 20 rounds, so you can have an army rather than a single stone creature. You might want to consider something harder than stone.

[RoboEmperor]

This is why I post these threads, because I make mistakes.

Ok so i will use the reliquary holy symbol until I get Extra Turning at level 9, which lets me drop my charisma to 14 and increase my other stats.

You can't use ghost ride on constructs because they are not living. But this is not a problem, you are in 100% control of your animated object, so it moves when you tell it to move and whatnot, so staying inside it shouldn't be a problem. Incorporeal creatures CANNOT walk through walls. They can stay inside a wall but they can't go through it. And since you have to walk as a ghost, staying inside a hollow mobile fortress shouldn't be a problem.

As for anyspell, I believe the official ruling is that anyspell remains a divine spell. Can't seem to relocate where I read it, but I found posts of other people saying it was the official ruling before the wizard boards got taken down.

So yeah,
1. Thanks for pointing out my flaw in my turn attempts. If I could grab flaws I'd grab extra turning sooner >.<
2. Ghost riding Animated Object is a non-issue. I will live inside it and poke my head out from time to time.
3. Anyspell is a divine spell that can be metamagicked. I swear it's the official ruling and the reading of the spell doesn't clearly say who is right.

edit: Oh right, I'm using stone because it's free. That's literally the only reason. Stone Shape is free. Wall of Stone is free. Anything else needs money.

edit2: Got rid of my anyspell argument because it's off-topic.

[RoboEmperor]

Actually... call me crazy but... I think I'm gonna start with 17 CHARISMA as a cleric! XD. Hear me out.

STR 8
DEX 8
CON 10 - Identical to a 14 con Wizard. So play this cleric like a 14 con wizard instead of a cleric!
INT 12 - Concentration, Knowledge:Religion, Knowledge:ThePlanes, and Spellcraft. Starting Bonus Language is Celestial.
WIS 14 - Persisted Extended Owl's Wisdom solves all ability score problems!
CHA 17 - Level 4 ability score increase goes here for a total of 3+4=7 turn attempts!

[Rebel7284]

Owl's Wisdom is not persistable.

[RoboEmperor]

Owl's Wisdom is not persistable.

Thanks for pointing this out. I am not a DMM:Persist cleric player so I keep making these mistakes @_@. You've been very helpful.

Extracting +2 wisdom from a fiend via Extract Gift spell should solve all my ability score problems.

[Anthrowhale]

You can't use ghost ride on constructs because they are not living. But this is not a problem, you are in 100% control of your animated object, so it moves when you tell it to move and whatnot, so staying inside it shouldn't be a problem. Incorporeal creatures CANNOT walk through walls. They can stay inside a wall but they can't go through it. And since you have to walk as a ghost, staying inside a hollow mobile fortress shouldn't be a problem.

A Medium incorporeal creature can walk through walls that are less than 5' thick. Furthermore, the Rules Compendium has rules specifically about incorporeal creatures being able to hide fully within larger creatures. The difficulty with staying inside the construct is that moves happen sequentially so when the construct moves you'll be left behind. If you delay until just after the construct moves, you can immediately follow it, but there will be a brief period of time when you are uncovered. You'll be less vulnerable if you just stay in the floor/wall/celing. Attacking incorporeal creatures that want to stay safe is super-difficult.


As for anyspell, I believe the official ruling is that anyspell remains a divine spell.

I don't know about rulings, but the RAW is that it's cast as an arcane spell.

When you cast the arcane spell, it works just as though cast by a wizard of your cleric level except...

So the spell is arcane and it's cast as a wizard with a list of exceptions that follow.

Illumian is a fine solution though since the lost human feat is made up by not needing DMM[persist].

[RoboEmperor]

A Medium incorporeal creature can walk through walls that are less than 5' thick. Furthermore, the Rules Compendium has rules specifically about incorporeal creatures being able to hide fully within larger creatures. The difficulty with staying inside the construct is that moves happen sequentially so when the construct moves you'll be left behind. If you delay until just after the construct moves, you can immediately follow it, but there will be a brief period of time when you are uncovered. You'll be less vulnerable if you just stay in the floor/wall/celing. Attacking incorporeal creatures that want to stay safe is super-difficult.


An incorporeal creature can enter or pass through solid objects, but must remain adjacent to the object’s exterior, and so cannot pass entirely through an object whose space is larger than its own. It can sense the presence of creatures or objects within a square adjacent to its current location, but enemies have total concealment (50% miss chance) from an incorporeal creature that is inside an object. In order to see farther from the object it is in and attack normally, the incorporeal creature must emerge. An incorporeal creature inside an object has total cover, but when it attacks a creature outside the object it only has cover, so a creature outside with a readied action could strike at it as it attacks. An incorporeal creature cannot pass through a force effect.

It's a gargantuan animated object, not a medium. Furthermore it'll be like a mobile base. I really don't see a problem here. Worst case scenario I'll create some ectoplasm and stick inside at the back of the animated object and sit there.


I don't know about rulings, but the RAW is that it's cast as an arcane spell.

So the spell is arcane and it's cast as a wizard with a list of exceptions that follow.

edit: It probably doesn't matter how we rule anyspell. Alteration domain would solve all my problems and my DM said anyspell is divine. Lets not argue about this since this is off-topic :)

edit2: gogogme has kindly made another thread for the anyspell discussion.
http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?552394-Anyspell-arcane-or-divine

edit3: I keep forgetting to mention Illumian because... I don't know what that is XD. Researching...

[RoboEmperor]

Illumian is a fine solution though since the lost human feat is made up by not needing DMM[persist].

I'm so sorry for overlooking this. I finally was able to hunt down where this race was and what made it so goddamn amazing, and wow it's amazing.

First and foremost it's in Races of Destiny, a setting neutral book.

Thanks man, you are awesome. I'm gonna be an illumian and just avoid the entire argument about anyspell.

What really sold me over to Illumians was the ability to extend my conjure ice beasts twice a day starting level 2. Makes my cleric significantly more stronger at this level.

Charisma is reverted to 16 to increase INT to 14 and STR to 9.

[RoboEmperor]

I never knew dndtools could fail me...

I found the TRANSFORMATION DOMAIN from Races of Eberron! It has alter self!

So since my DM allows eberron since it's without a doubt 1st party 3.5... no more spell domain!

Added a Marshal dip for the charisma check boost.

[Anthrowhale]

You might want to use the Cloistered Cleric ACF which gives many more skill points and an extra domain.

Furthermore, if you acquire the ability to alter self into a Ravid(*) before taking level 3, then a Cloistered Cleric can potentially take the {Knowledge, Demonic, Transformation} domains allowing Persistent Spell at level 1 and Assume Supernatural Ability[Animate Objects] at level 3, then use the spell Substitute Domain[Transformation] to get access to Alter Self for yourself so that you can persist it. This requires that you have a deity with domains Demonic, Planning, and Transformation which ... may be a stretch.

(*) For example by paying someone to do Polymorph Any Object[Ravid] on you.

[RoboEmperor]

You might want to use the Cloistered Cleric ACF which gives many more skill points and an extra domain.

Furthermore, if you acquire the ability to alter self into a Ravid(*) before taking level 3, then a Cloistered Cleric can potentially take the {Knowledge, Demonic, Transformation} domains allowing Persistent Spell at level 1 and Assume Supernatural Ability[Animate Objects] at level 3, then use the spell Substitute Domain[Transformation] to get access to Alter Self for yourself so that you can persist it. This requires that you have a deity with domains Demonic, Planning, and Transformation which ... may be a stretch.

(*) For example by paying someone to do Polymorph Any Object[Ravid] on you.

My DM hates all variant rules, and he considers UA a book of variant rules XD.

With flaws I can get persistent spell by level 2, or DMM:Persist at level 1, but alas he considers flaws a variant rule and banned them.

Cloistered Cleric in his view is a variant rule. In addition, I already only have 10 con, dropping my hit die and losing proficiency to full plate could really put me in a vulnerable position at level 1-2, before I get my persisted crucian up and running.

Also ghosts. By being a ghost super low level, it means I'm gonna have to cast more raise deads and lose levels unless I can reach the city of Manifest somehow.

I didn't quite understand what you wrote about substitute domain. If I have transformation domain, why would I cast substitute domain transformation? In anycase though, I will always and forever be a deityless cleric because I believe no one is worthy of worship.

Getting PaO cast on me is a Demographics issue. I gotta be in a metropolis, and low level characters can't afford 15 x 50 = 750gp for the casting, and the DMG says getting such a high level spellcaster to cast the spell on you is a quest by itself. Seeing how virtually all of the modules our DM runs for us starts out in some tiny village, it's not something I can rely on.

Also there's a little issue about... cheese... I mean like getting a perpetual gargantuan animated object at level 6 is high-op, but getting it at like level 3 or 1, that' is without a doubt cheese XD.

edit:Persisted Doppelganger Transformation... it solves all my stat problems! +4 to wis, +2 to charisma (1 more turn attempt). Transformation Domain is freaking AWESOME.

edit2: Moved marshal to level 6 from level 12. I don't want to spend anytime as a non-ghost at higher levels.

[RoboEmperor]

Goddamn it. Transformation domain has a clause saying only deityless shapechangers may select it...

Either be a changeling instead of an illumian and grab DMM:Persist (not enough feats, need flaws)

Or go back to Spell Domain... (wizard ally dependent)

Unless there's a way out of that shapechanger requirement

[RoboEmperor]

If there's a will there's a way

I love d&d 3.5. With enough effort you can make everything work! I get such a high when I figure stuff like this out it makes me smile the entire day :)

Made changelings work with retraining rules. Retraining is NOT a variant rule, it is RAW.
Made changelings work WITHOUT flaws.

I had to ditch concentration for a 17 charisma to hit that 7 turn attempts of DMM:Persist without the aid of items at level 4. First ability score increase goes to charisma.

With retraining rules I can now use Creation Domain to make my Conjure Ice Beast absolutely broken at levels 1-2.

Also, removed marshal. I keep forgetting Miracle exists. Miracle solves all problems. It is truly the miracle spell.

Can someone proofread my changeling build? If this thread is any indication I make a lot of mistakes.

[Anthrowhale]

My understanding is that a Cloistered Cleric would free 6 ability score points from Int which you could invest into Con. Also full plate costs 1.5k gp so if you can't afford PAO, then you cam't afford full plate. CC is moot of course if it's not allowed.

I don't know any better approach to [shapechanger] than changeling.

[RoboEmperor]

My understanding is that a Cloistered Cleric would free 6 ability score points from Int which you could invest into Con. Also full plate costs 1.5k gp so if you can't afford PAO, then you cam't afford full plate. CC is moot of course if it's not allowed.

I don't know any better approach to [shapechanger] than changeling.

I don't want a negative int score for roleplay reasons... But yeah mechanically CC is superior. I mean I don't need to be proficient with full plate to wear it, and it doesn't hinder my spellcasting so... yeah CC is better. But it's not alowed >.<.

The PaO issue is being a ghost at low level though. Unless I want to be removed from the campaign via the Calling, I gotta also be able to afford a raise dead, which also results in a level loss because without teleport I don't think I can get to manifest in the middle of a module. Anyways demographics issue stops me from relying on this.

Could you proofread my changeling build? :)
Seems like you posted while I was finishing it up.

[Anthrowhale]

W.r.t. the changeling build, I think you'll be happier if you start as middle-aged since you can achieve the same stats with 3 fewer ability score points.

Using Psychic Reformation seems more straightforward than a Rebuild quest.

[RoboEmperor]

Using Psychic Reformation seems more straightforward than a Rebuild quest.

What rebuild quest? Retraining rules say I just retrain my domain (class feature) right before I level up. The rebuild quest only applies to a deity change (doesn't happen for a deityless cleric) or a class level change.

[Anthrowhale]

What rebuild quest? Retraining rules say I just retrain my domain (class feature) right before I level up. The rebuild quest only applies to a deity change (doesn't happen for a deityless cleric) or a class level change.

Ok. I don't see a flaw in the changeling approach.

Note also that your stats are good for a Shapechange gish at high levels.

[RoboEmperor]

I actually I did find a mistake. My retraining choices cannot make later choices illegal... so...

Level 9 - Grab PatsyFeat1 Change out Transformation Domain for Demonic Domain, use a Ravid from here on out.
Level 10 - Change Out DMM:Persist with PatsyFeat2
Level 11 - Change Out Persistent Spell with PatsyFeat3
Level 12 - Change Out Planning Domain for Transformation Domain
Level 13 - Change PatsyFeat3 with Extend Spell
Level 14 - Change PatsyFeat2 with Persistent Spell
Level 15 - Change PatsyFeat1 with DMM:Persist.

Or keep the planning domain... I mean Time Stop ain't bad.


Ok. I don't see a flaw in the changeling approach.

Note also that your stats are good for a Shapechange gish at high levels.

Awesome!

Psychic reformation maybe better though... I'll look into it.

With this I declare my build complete! Yay!

edit: I could probably cut a retraining by grabbing DMM:Persist at 15

[Anthrowhale]

I still think you should start as middle aged. Increase all physical stat buys by 1, and decrease all mental stat buys by 1, allocate the extra 2 ability score points, then start as middle aged. You can start with Int 14, Con 12, or Wisdom 15 & Strength 9. (Note that ambitions related to full plate probably don't work w.r.t. the low strength.)

[RoboEmperor]

I still think you should start as middle aged. Increase all physical stat buys by 1, and decrease all mental stat buys by 1, allocate the extra 2 ability score points, then start as middle aged. You can start with Int 14, Con 12, or Wisdom 15 & Strength 9. (Note that ambitions related to full plate probably don't work w.r.t. the low strength.)

Oh most definitely. But you gotta draw the line between pure optimization power and roleplay fun somewhere right?

I like playing younger characters full of hope and ambition, and I like a positive int modifier (the CC argument), so that's where i'd draw the line.

You're right about fullplate. Full Plate + Tower Shield = too heavy, but Full Plate + Heavy Shield + Handy Haversack is probably good.

Could you help me with one last thing though?

At 9 retrain Transformation Domain to Demonic Domain, grab Infernal Bargainer
At 10 retrain DMM:Persistent Spell with Spell Focus:Conjuration
At 11 retrain Persistent Spell with ???
At 12 retrain Planning Domain for Transformation Domain, grab Demon mastery
At 13 retrain ??? with Extend Spell
At 14 retrain Spell Focus:Conjuration with Persistent Spell
At 15 grab DMM:Persistent Spell

I'm stomped at what that ??? should be.

1 ???
3 Spell Focus:Conjuration
6 Assume Supernatural Ability
9 Infernal Bargainer
12 Demon Mastery

at levels 11-12. Can't choose Greater Spell Focus.

Oh and I'm never retraining Assume Supernatural Ability (not that you suggested me to). Ravid's Animate Object Aura is what defines me as a d&d player. It is my unique thing that no one else does! I am defined by the ravid's animate object aura!

edit:For lack of a better option, it will be Rapid Spell for Conjure Ice Beast or Summon Monster.

[Anthrowhale]

Sorry, I don't see a better alternative retraining path.

The retraining process seems like quite a bit of hassle compared to Psychic Reformation if you can get access to it...

[RoboEmperor]

Sorry, I don't see a better alternative retraining path.

The retraining process seems like quite a bit of hassle compared to Psychic Reformation if you can get access to it...

Yeah if I have access to one I will definitely use one. Retraining is for worst-case-scenario.

Thanks man. You're literally the only person who has been helping me with my shenanigantastic builds ^_^.
<3 <3 <3

[RoboEmperor]

I keep forgetting to add 1 rank of UMD and UPD to my cleric builds. Surge of Fortune + Divine Insight = 36. This beats every DC in those two skills.

[Anthrowhale]

Use Guidance of the Avatar to add another +20(competence).

Altogether, a cleric can set up a skill check of 55 = 20(surge of fortune)+20(competence)+15(insight) skill check result on command. Adding an actual investment beyond spells could bring that to ~85 which makes clerics able to make many epic skill checks.

[RoboEmperor]

Use Guidance of the Avatar to add another +20(competence).

Altogether, a cleric can set up a skill check of 55 = 20(surge of fortune)+20(competence)+15(insight) skill check result on command. Adding an actual investment beyond spells could bring that to ~85 which makes clerics able to make many epic skill checks.

I don't have a deity :(. In anycase my DM hates web content (Dweomerkeeper is the chief culprit!)

Makes me wanna invest in diplomacy. Too bad I only get 3 skill points a level...

[magicalmagicman]

Have you thought about using a sorcerer?

At level 6 he will have 5 Alter self and 3 Extended Alter self castings for a total duration of 300min + 360min = 660min = 11 hours. With a high charisma score it will be another 3 hours for 14 hours a day. Add in Versatile Spellcaster and you got another 3 hours for a grand total of 17 hours, and since you rest for 8 hours a day, you'll essentially be a ravid the entire day.

The only feat you need here is extend spell. And eschew materials since you're crazy about that self-sufficient thing. And as a sorcerer you have access to persuade to manifest to make yourself into a ghost should manifest not exist in your campaign.

Add in arcane preparation for Wyrm Wizard at level 10 and 11 for Surge of Fortune and you're free of retraining rules, although your planar binding will be delayed by 2 levels.

[RoboEmperor]

Have you thought about using a sorcerer?

At level 6 he will have 5 Alter self and 3 Extended Alter self castings for a total duration of 300min + 360min = 660min = 11 hours. With a high charisma score it will be another 3 hours for 14 hours a day. Add in Versatile Spellcaster and you got another 3 hours for a grand total of 17 hours, and since you rest for 8 hours a day, you'll essentially be a ravid the entire day.

The only feat you need here is extend spell. And eschew materials since you're crazy about that self-sufficient thing. And as a sorcerer you have access to persuade to manifest to make yourself into a ghost should manifest not exist in your campaign.

Add in arcane preparation for Wyrm Wizard at level 10 and 11 for Surge of Fortune and you're free of retraining rules, although your planar binding will be delayed by 2 levels.

I did but

1. The Eidoloncer stuff prevents you from entering wyrm wizard when you want. So you gotta spend 2 levels as a non-outsider, which is devastating to the whole build.
2. Planar Binding is delayed by 2 levels

I guess it could work if you were a Neraphim (ugly toad) or a +0 LA Aasimar (web content), or just deal with the +1 LA and hope to buy it off (UA), but then Planar Binding is delayed by 3 levels, level 14, and you can't expect a Gargantuan Animated Object to carry you all the way to level 14, especially against Disintegrate and teleportation that completely renders the Gargantuan Animated Object's only advantage (Grapple) useless.

[magicalmagicman]

I did but

1. The Eidoloncer stuff prevents you from entering wyrm wizard when you want. So you gotta spend 2 levels as a non-outsider, which is devastating to the whole build.
2. Planar Binding is delayed by 2 levels

I guess it could work if you were a Neraphim (ugly toad) or a +0 LA Aasimar (web content), or just deal with the +1 LA and hope to buy it off (UA), but then Planar Binding is delayed by 3 levels, level 14, and you can't expect a Gargantuan Animated Object to carry you all the way to level 14, especially against Disintegrate and teleportation that completely renders the Gargantuan Animated Object's only advantage (Grapple) useless.

Ghostwalk says a character can delay his level up until he rests so he can decide if he wants to advance is ghost class or normal class. So you just need someone casting Raise Dead twice.


For the purpose of character advancement in the
Ghostwalk campaign, characters should not gain levels
during the course of an adventure until they have
rested for at least 8 hours. This allows a ghost character
to decide if she wants to rest as a ghost and gain a level
in the eidolon class or receive a raise dead spell and
then rest, applying her new level to a character class of
her choice.

[RoboEmperor]

Ghostwalk says a character can delay his level up until he rests so he can decide if he wants to advance is ghost class or normal class. So you just need someone casting Raise Dead twice.

Unless you're in manifest those raise deads are gonna take two levels away from you.

However I can see this working.

1. Turn into a ghost at sor6
2. Turn back into a non-ghost at 11 (dropped to 10)
3. Use Lesser Geas to enslave a Ravid.
4. Wyrm Wizard until 12 and add Surge of Fortune.

And whatever you want afterwards. But still because of that level loss your planar binding is delayed all the way to ECL 14, where as in my cleric builds you get planar binding at ECL 11.

[RoboEmperor]

I thought about it a lot, but I'm going cleric because of Conjure Ice Beast.

Summon Monster I-II is absolutely atrocious. You don't even get wolves, you get DOGS. And having them land attacks at +2 hit is absolutely atrocious, especially on top of the fact that you get only 1 round of them, and for sorcerers, you're stuck with them for FOUR levels.

The only combat application for Summon Monster I-II, literally, is summoning spiders and throwing nets for a -2 to hit for your allies. Literally.

Compare that with Conjure Ice Beast, which can be boosted with Creation Domain, Artifice Domain, or Illumian's extend spell for free. I have literally solo'd entire modules at level 1 with Conjure Ice Beast. +3 to hit with Ice Wolves? I don't give a damn about their attack, their Aura of 1d6 a round is more than sufficient for wiping out entire encounters solo. I don't care if they land an attack for the entire time I use them.

I just can't go back to summoning dogs or spiders and doing absolutely nothing. Conjure Ice Beast is the primary reason i cannot play arcane casters. Surge of Fortune is the second reason.

Deities used to be a deal breaker for me, but Greyhawk and Eberron directly states you can have clerics without deities. Eberron has a ton of official examples of these clerics too.

So no to sorcerers at least for me, and especially no to wizards because of their dependence on spellbooks. Eidetic Spellcaster is nice but it's unfortunately dragon mag, and even then no conjure ice beast.

[Anthrowhale]

I'm not really disagreeing, but a human wizard 1 with Spell Mastery and Uncanny Forethought who can spontaneously cast Power Word: Pain, Sleep, Light of Lunia, Launch Item, Nerve Skitter, and Mount is fairly capable. Power word: Pain can inflict far more damage than a cold aura. Sleep, cast at a high DC, ends encounters. Light of Lunia provides 4d6 vs. undead. Launch item is a fantastic cantrip when combined with a suitable selection of ammunition covering AoE damage. Nerve Skitter & Mount are great utility spells (which you may or may not be able to afford to cast at level 1).

[RoboEmperor]

I'm not really disagreeing, but a human wizard 1 with Spell Mastery and Uncanny Forethought who can spontaneously cast Power Word: Pain, Sleep, Light of Lunia, Launch Item, Nerve Skitter, and Mount is fairly capable. Power word: Pain can inflict far more damage than a cold aura. Sleep, cast at a high DC, ends encounters. Light of Lunia provides 4d6 vs. undead. Launch item is a fantastic cantrip when combined with a suitable selection of ammunition covering AoE damage. Nerve Skitter & Mount are great utility spells (which you may or may not be able to afford to cast at level 1).

Except those aren't summoning spells :P

If I was going the non-summoning wizard route I'd go something like Precocious Apprentice and Fiery Burst combined with a Tower Shield and Scale Mail. Who cares if a wizard isn't proficient in them, he's spamming Fiery Burst.

But Precocious Apprentice requires a great deal of rule-lawyering, much more than using Versatile Spellcaster for early access.

[Anthrowhale]

Except those aren't summoning spells :P

If I was going the non-summoning wizard route I'd go something like Precocious Apprentice and Fiery Burst combined with a Tower Shield and Scale Mail. Who cares if a wizard isn't proficient in them, he's spamming Fiery Burst.

But Precocious Apprentice requires a great deal of rule-lawyering, much more than using Versatile Spellcaster for early access.

Right---The FAQ explicitly disagrees with using Precocious Apprentice for prerequisites.

[Endarire]

Wow.

No advice yet, but I am impressed at the level of rules mastery discussed here! Well done! Alleluia!

[RoboEmperor]

Wow.

No advice yet, but I am impressed at the level of rules mastery discussed here! Well done! Alleluia!

Thanks!

Best thing is, this is all High-Op, not TO. The strongest thing I'm doing is DMM:Persist, and I'm only using it once instead of becoming a Clericzilla.

The ghost template is not mandatory. I can simply use a scroll of lesser holy transformation or wait until level 7 and cast lesser holy transformation for the outsider type and then perpetually stay a ravid with extended DMM:Persist

[RoboEmperor]

I've done some thinking and I think I can make your sorcerer work magicalmagicman. The key class is Wyrm Wizard.

Feats: Extend Spell, Arcane Preparation, and Assume Supernatural Ability.

Sorcerer7/WyrmWizard3/Sorcerer1/WyrmWizard1

This will get you Planar Binding from Demonologist at level 9. Down from 13-14. Your Greater Planar Binding is shot until level 18 though, and you get Surge of Fortune at 12 meaning you're going to have to rely on re-rolls to avoid that TPK roll of 1 on that charisma check.

I still won't play sorcerer though, because I'm someone who takes fluff very seriously and the fluff of wyrm wizard requires you to be friends with and spend down-time researching with a dragon.

[Endarire]

Other considerations if your GM allows:

-Start at middle age, old age, or venerable age. Your physical stats decline but your mental stats improve.

-The source book Dragonlance Legend of the Twins has the feats Academic Priest and Dynamic Priest. You must take these at level 1, but each switches your main casting stat (except for spell DCs) for a divine casting class to INT and CHA respectively. Less stat splitting if you use Dynamic Priest.

[RoboEmperor]

Other considerations if your GM allows:

-Start at middle age, old age, or venerable age. Your physical stats decline but your mental stats improve.

-The source book Dragonlance Legend of the Twins has the feats Academic Priest and Dynamic Priest. You must take these at level 1, but each switches your main casting stat (except for spell DCs) for a divine casting class to INT and CHA respectively. Less stat splitting if you use Dynamic Priest.

Anthrowhale already suggested middle age and I rejected it due to roleplay reasons.

I'll look into Dragonlance Legend of the Twins, but I suspect it is 3rd party. If it's not then i'll consider it for my other builds. My current build can't spare a single feat and flaws are not allowed.

[RoboEmperor]

Turns out I couldn't ditch sorcerers because they were my first class and will always be my favorite class in BG2 and NWN1&2. So after giving it a lot of thought and digging through a lot of stuff, I think I found a sorcerer build that I like.

Recaster is a changeling exclusive PrC and unlike Wyrm Wizard they don't have fluff that bogs the class down. No downtime, no consorting with NPCs that may not be available in your campaign. There's literally no fluff stopping a changeling sorcerer from going recaster.

Sorcerer11/Recaster2
for Planar Binding and Surge of Fortune at level 13.

This means I gotta make my animated object last until level 12. After discovering Girallon's Blessing and Amulet of Natural Weapons, I think I can make the Gargantuan Animated Object last until level 12. I mean how can you say no to 4 claw attacks at 24 str boosted by a ton of buffs with a chance to do additional str damage if two of these claw attacks hit with a +15 to hit, made higher by a +5 amulet of natural weapons?

Figuring out the rest of this build should be a good fun hobby for me for the next week or so. I need...
1. The second spell to add via Recaster. it has to be absolutely amazing.
2. PrCs to fill out the sorcerer. I'm thinking Fatespinner for sure.
3. Early game strategy. Probably Enlarge Person + Mage Armor + Shield + Alter Self +Protection from Evil (total +18 AC) with a Longspear. Probably will add spiderskin on top of this. Then grab Lesser Geas for Lesser Planar Binding! Definitely gonna grab color spray if I can make her charisma at least 16.
4. An actual list of buff spells. Haste is in there for sure.
5. Gaseous Form to make it fit through tight spaces as one of my spell knowns?

It's a pity I couldn't get rid of the ghost template.

[magicalmagicman]

Awesome! I can't wait to see what you come up with!

[RoboEmperor]

Alright I'm burned out for now. This is what I got so far
Ability Score
Str 8
Dex 8
Con 14
Int 14
Wis 8
Cha 17

Skills
Knowledge:Arcane - Max - For Epic Levels
Knowledge:The Planes - Max - To know what outsiders you can bind
Spellcraft - Max - For Epic Levels
Craft:Sculpting - 10 - So your unseen crafters can make your gargantuan animated object

Feats
1 Knowledge Devotion (The Planes)
3 Extend Spell - Extended Alter Self
6 Assume Supernatural Ability
9 Silent Spell - Need a 2nd metamagic for Recaster. With Silent Spell I can apply both silent and stilled spells 5 times a day.
12 Infernal Bargainer
15 Spell Focus:Conjuration
18 Greater Spell Focus:Conjuration

Sorcerer8/Recaster3/Fatespinner1/Recaster1/Fatespinner3/Recaster1/Sorcerer3

0
1 Light
1 Dancing Lights
1,-4 Daze
1 Disrupt Undead
2 Detect Magic
4 Prestidigitation
4 Mending
6 Repair Minor Damage
8 Message
10 Mage Hand

1
1, -10 Power Word: Pain
1, -6 Expeditious Retreat
3 Mage Armor (F)
5, -8 Shield
6 Repair Light Damage
7 Magic Missile
8 Comprehend Langauges
10 Nerveskitter

2
4 Alter Self
5, -16 Unseen Crafter
7 Repair Moderate Damage
9 Bull's Strength
11 Eagle's Splendor
16 Chain of Eyes

3
6 Girallon's Blessing
7 Arms of Plenty
9 Magic Circle Against Evil
11 Magic Circle Against Good
(R) Greater Magic Fang

4
8, -12 Lesser Geas
9 Dimensional Anchor
11 Fly (3rd level spell)
12 Haste (3rd level spell)
13 Polymorph - Polymorph into a Mind Leech, then Extended Alter Self into a Mind Leech

5
10, -14 Lesser Planar Binding
11 Greater Dimension Door - Give my monster teleportation
13 Telepathic Bond
14 Major Creation - To create Ironguard Focus
15 Celerity (4th level spell) - With Teleport should be impossible to die.
(R) Surge of Fortune

6
12, -18 Planar Binding
13 Greater Heroism
15 Superior Resistance
18 Spiderskin (3rd level spell) - Why not, I couldn't find a single 6th level buff spell other than the above two.

7
14 Iron Guard
15 Energy Immunity
17 Greater Teleport

8
16 Greater Planar Binding
17 Moment of Prescience - 100% success chance on the charisma check against every outsider in existence
19 Steal Life - Eternal Youth, and fiends are the best fodder.

9
18 Mind Blank (8th level spell)
19 Gate - Cosmic Descryer prerequisite

Early game - Power Word Pain and stall/run away, and use a Morning Star on undead.
If either no downtime or no stone for the gargantuan animated object, just buy a ton of rope, tie the ends together, and have a gargantuan rope animated object.

edit: I keep forgetting wand of magic missile is a thing. No need to melee undead so dropping strength.

[RoboEmperor]

For my 2nd recaster spell I'm gonna grab Greater Magic Fang. I give my monsters a grand total of 6 claw attacks so...

Added more spells, but they're not set in stone as I am not a master of wizards or sorcerers. I just chose whatever buff I could find. Most buffs are low level, like level 3, so I found myself using higher level spell known slots for lower level spells.

I wanted to switch shapechange with something else, something more buff-oriented, but couldn't find one. It was either this or time stop. Was a little tempted to grab PaO instead.
Arcane Spellsurge and Fusion sounded nice, but this sorcerer is an out-of-combat buffer, so action economy isn't really her thing.

I feel like I'm doing something wrong. because I've currently used 4 higher level spell knowns for lower level spells @_@

edit:Greater Invisibility is rejected because I want people to see my 6 armed robot monster when it tears them to shreds.

[RoboEmperor]

Whatever, spell list is finished. So what if I use a 6th level spell known slot for freaking Spiderskin. I've looked through sooooo many spells and I still couldn't find a buff spell except greater heroism and superior resistance. Greater Dispel Magic? Already got outsiders who has it at-will. Contingency? Why would I need contingency when I have Celerity. Disintegrate? I already got outsiders who can pummel walls to pieces or teleport through force walls.

I will turn into a mind leech via polymorph, make the duration longer with extended alter self, then burrow into a pit fiend, paelyrion, or balor's brain stem, and communicate with it via telepathic bond + chain of eyes, casting a few buff spells via silent + still spell at +1 thanks to recaster's class features.

It is my hope that someone could find perhaps better spells, but who am I kidding. Clerics have all the good buff spells, and the rest of the good buff spells are all Personal range.

This build will replace my Nar Demonbinder build as my arcane/forgotten realms build. I just need to do some minor touch ups, some planar binding save dc calculations, and I should be done.

Oh and simulacrum is me just giving up finding a 3rd 7th level spell. It was either this or avasculate or arcane spellsurge, all worthless on my buff sorcerer.

[Anthrowhale]

If you take Cerebrosis (Dragon #330) as a bonus feat, then you'll have one extra spell known per level which you can retrain.

Also, I don't believe you can take a low level spell known in place of a high level spell known. 6th level buff options include:
Greater Anticipate Teleportation: shut down scry&die (tricky with party members)
Fires of Purity: +15 fire damage/attack and improved evasion vs fire.
Hardening: add hardness caster level/2
Starmantle: Reflxsave to negate weapon attacks.
Eyes of the oracle: A bonus readied action.

[RoboEmperor]

If you take Cerebrosis (Dragon #330) as a bonus feat, then you'll have one extra spell known per level which you can retrain.

Thanks for the suggestion as always, but my DM doesn't allow dragon mag, and I just spent the last few hours tearing my head apart trying to figure out what spells I should give this sorcerer, so I don't want more spell knowns XD. I'll become bald!

[Endarire]

Contingency is useful in addition to celerity since they can activate at the same time. Your contingent trigger can be, "When I want this to happen." Also, celerity normally dazes you the round after using it, unlike contingency.

[RoboEmperor]

Contingency is useful in addition to celerity since they can activate at the same time. Your contingent trigger can be, "When I want this to happen." Also, celerity normally dazes you the round after using it, unlike contingency.

I used to use contingency like that, but for a buff-oriented sorcerer who is gonna stay inside a creature 24/7 either as a mind leech or by calling/creating a creature that can be hollow inside, I think grabbing an extra buff spell is more important than contingency. That and the Focus requirement put me off that spell.

It's still an amazing spell! Just not for this particular sorcerer.