petermcleod117
2018-02-28, 03:26 PM
Hey, whoever sees this. This is my first time posting to this forum (as opposed to commenting on someone else's post), so I'm not really sure what I'm doing, but here we go.
I'm not really a big fan of the vancian magic system. While it has a lot of options to it, my major problem with it is that it doesn't really feel like a system of magic that people would actually believe in. It feels really gamey, for lack of a better word. :smallannoyed: I have a similar problem with Psionics and other systems that use magic points (with the exception of Incarnum, see below). Sure, the power reflect certain belief systems, but the actual mechanics (be it spell slots or point reservoirs) don't feel right. :smallfrown:
That being said, in my days of scouring drivethrurpg.com and similar sites, I have discovered a number of alternate systems whose mechanics just make sense with the system they are attempting to represent.:smallsmile:
I will list the ones I have encountered now below, but I would really appreciate it if I could be directed to other, similar systems:
(for the purposes of this list, I am only counting those systems which are playable and whose magic system can be used to build more than one base class, at least in theory. Thus, the Truenamer from the Tome of Magic and the Mountebank from the Dragon Magazine Compendium are both eliminated).
Starting with the official systems, we have:
-Incarnum <Magic of Incarnum> Although it uses a point system, that system is not a major part of the conceit of the system, and it actually has a pretty decent explanation.
-Pact Magic <Tome of Magic> I think most people will agree that this system is both mechanically solid and has a nice flair to it. If only there was more than one base class associated with it :smallsigh:
-Shadow Magic <Tome of Magic> Kinda underpowered, but it is at least more functional than the default truenamer, and it has decent fluff as well.
-Blade Magic <Tome of Battle> A bit convoluted, and perhaps not as interesting as, say, Incarnum in terms of fluff, but it's both mechanically feasible and fits with it's fluff.
-Invocations <Complete Arcane and Dragon Magic> Functional and has decent fluff
Now for official OGL releases, we have:
-Theurgy <Medieval Player's Guide> The Medieval Player's Guide put out a surprising amount of new magic systems for a campaign supplement, and this is by far the most unique, interesting, and balanced of them. To learn a new spell, one must complete an expensive ritual. However, once the ritual is complete, you have the spell permanently as a spell-like ability. It's a bit more complicated than that, and has a bunch of really nice fluff. I'd check it out if you want to play a wizard archetype but don't want to use the vancian system.
-Astrology <Medieval Player's Guide> This is a skill based system which can be enhanced by specific feats. While in the case of Truenaming this was unfeasible, this system pulls it off gracefully by making it only useful for divination, and then only in very specific circumstances. So it can be really powerful if a character purposely invests a lot of skill points into it, but not game-breaking.
-Astral Charms <Medieval Player's Guide> This is the weakest of the systems produced in the Medieval Player's Guide. This is actually because the fluff for it (which happens to be pretty good) also limits it considerably. What's interesting about it is that it consists of a single feat which can be taken multiple times, each time granting you access to a new spell in the form of a charm you can craft at minimal expense (no XP or GP cost, as the charm can be made out of essentially useless material). Where it falls down is in how this is limited: the charms can only be crafted at certain times, and 8th and 9th level charms can only be made once per year. :smalleek:
-Alchemy <Medieval Player's Guide> Allows you to do some moderately cool stuff with materials, but not really useful otherwise. Supposed to be a supplemental system to Astral Charms and Astrology.
-Folk Charms <Medieval Player's Guide> Fairly decent feat-based system involving creating small, inexpensive magic items which grant subtle benefits to those who wield them. Not recommended for a system which treats attaining immortality as something rare, as a human character can use this system to gain immortality at first level :smallannoyed: (though he becomes thoroughly useless if he does so :smallbiggrin: ). Also not recommended for those who like their magic loud and flashy. It is solid mechanically nonetheless, and it's fluff is interesting.
-Charisms <Medieval Player's Guide> Basically Saint Powers. Think Exalted feats from the book of exalted deeds, but much more powerful. They also have the nice touch of NOT punishing non-saint characters for less than saintly behavior, while still enforcing such restriction on the saint. As I understand it, that was a real problem with much of the content of the book of exalted deeds.
-Psychic Power <The Psychic's Handbook> It's like the Psion, but instead of using power points, it uses nonlethal damage. This fits far better with the idea that mental powers involve powerful acts of will to execute. It is also really nice for low magic systems, and could perhaps be used alongside Astral Charms to produce an appropriate low magic setting.
-Pact Magic (Improved) <Secrets of Pact Magic and Villains of Pact Magic> If you liked the Binder from the Tome of Magic, this system is for you. :smallwink: It basically takes that system and expands upon it until it effectively produces it's own campaign setting from the shear amount of rules and fluff involved. Vestiges (now called Spirits) come in multiple varieties, and scale a little better than the original, and they actually produce multiple base classes devoted both to Pact Magic and those who might oppose it. Finally, even if you don't want to fully integrate the system into your campaign, it has special rules for how normal spellcasters and even non-casters can use the system. It is extremely thorough and well-made. If you play pathfinder, there is an adaptation of it by the same company called the Grimoire of Lost Souls.
And finally, homebrew systems
Xenotheurgy <Realms of Chaos, Xenotheurgy-Far-Realms-magic-system on this site > If you want magic to be a curse with side effects, you read HP Lovecraft, and you like both warlock and pact magic fluff, this is the system for you.
Truenaming (Improved) <Kelus, The-Way-Words-Work-(or-Truenaming-that-doesn-t-make-me-cry-myself-to-sleep-at-night) on this site > If you REALLY liked the fluff for the truenamer in the Tome of Magic, but were disappointed with the lackluster execution of said fluff, this is the system for you.
Bending <Avatar the Last Airbender D20> this system is basically a low-level version of the spell seeds from the Epic Level Handbook.
That's what I have. Please tell me if you know of any other good ones.
I'm not really a big fan of the vancian magic system. While it has a lot of options to it, my major problem with it is that it doesn't really feel like a system of magic that people would actually believe in. It feels really gamey, for lack of a better word. :smallannoyed: I have a similar problem with Psionics and other systems that use magic points (with the exception of Incarnum, see below). Sure, the power reflect certain belief systems, but the actual mechanics (be it spell slots or point reservoirs) don't feel right. :smallfrown:
That being said, in my days of scouring drivethrurpg.com and similar sites, I have discovered a number of alternate systems whose mechanics just make sense with the system they are attempting to represent.:smallsmile:
I will list the ones I have encountered now below, but I would really appreciate it if I could be directed to other, similar systems:
(for the purposes of this list, I am only counting those systems which are playable and whose magic system can be used to build more than one base class, at least in theory. Thus, the Truenamer from the Tome of Magic and the Mountebank from the Dragon Magazine Compendium are both eliminated).
Starting with the official systems, we have:
-Incarnum <Magic of Incarnum> Although it uses a point system, that system is not a major part of the conceit of the system, and it actually has a pretty decent explanation.
-Pact Magic <Tome of Magic> I think most people will agree that this system is both mechanically solid and has a nice flair to it. If only there was more than one base class associated with it :smallsigh:
-Shadow Magic <Tome of Magic> Kinda underpowered, but it is at least more functional than the default truenamer, and it has decent fluff as well.
-Blade Magic <Tome of Battle> A bit convoluted, and perhaps not as interesting as, say, Incarnum in terms of fluff, but it's both mechanically feasible and fits with it's fluff.
-Invocations <Complete Arcane and Dragon Magic> Functional and has decent fluff
Now for official OGL releases, we have:
-Theurgy <Medieval Player's Guide> The Medieval Player's Guide put out a surprising amount of new magic systems for a campaign supplement, and this is by far the most unique, interesting, and balanced of them. To learn a new spell, one must complete an expensive ritual. However, once the ritual is complete, you have the spell permanently as a spell-like ability. It's a bit more complicated than that, and has a bunch of really nice fluff. I'd check it out if you want to play a wizard archetype but don't want to use the vancian system.
-Astrology <Medieval Player's Guide> This is a skill based system which can be enhanced by specific feats. While in the case of Truenaming this was unfeasible, this system pulls it off gracefully by making it only useful for divination, and then only in very specific circumstances. So it can be really powerful if a character purposely invests a lot of skill points into it, but not game-breaking.
-Astral Charms <Medieval Player's Guide> This is the weakest of the systems produced in the Medieval Player's Guide. This is actually because the fluff for it (which happens to be pretty good) also limits it considerably. What's interesting about it is that it consists of a single feat which can be taken multiple times, each time granting you access to a new spell in the form of a charm you can craft at minimal expense (no XP or GP cost, as the charm can be made out of essentially useless material). Where it falls down is in how this is limited: the charms can only be crafted at certain times, and 8th and 9th level charms can only be made once per year. :smalleek:
-Alchemy <Medieval Player's Guide> Allows you to do some moderately cool stuff with materials, but not really useful otherwise. Supposed to be a supplemental system to Astral Charms and Astrology.
-Folk Charms <Medieval Player's Guide> Fairly decent feat-based system involving creating small, inexpensive magic items which grant subtle benefits to those who wield them. Not recommended for a system which treats attaining immortality as something rare, as a human character can use this system to gain immortality at first level :smallannoyed: (though he becomes thoroughly useless if he does so :smallbiggrin: ). Also not recommended for those who like their magic loud and flashy. It is solid mechanically nonetheless, and it's fluff is interesting.
-Charisms <Medieval Player's Guide> Basically Saint Powers. Think Exalted feats from the book of exalted deeds, but much more powerful. They also have the nice touch of NOT punishing non-saint characters for less than saintly behavior, while still enforcing such restriction on the saint. As I understand it, that was a real problem with much of the content of the book of exalted deeds.
-Psychic Power <The Psychic's Handbook> It's like the Psion, but instead of using power points, it uses nonlethal damage. This fits far better with the idea that mental powers involve powerful acts of will to execute. It is also really nice for low magic systems, and could perhaps be used alongside Astral Charms to produce an appropriate low magic setting.
-Pact Magic (Improved) <Secrets of Pact Magic and Villains of Pact Magic> If you liked the Binder from the Tome of Magic, this system is for you. :smallwink: It basically takes that system and expands upon it until it effectively produces it's own campaign setting from the shear amount of rules and fluff involved. Vestiges (now called Spirits) come in multiple varieties, and scale a little better than the original, and they actually produce multiple base classes devoted both to Pact Magic and those who might oppose it. Finally, even if you don't want to fully integrate the system into your campaign, it has special rules for how normal spellcasters and even non-casters can use the system. It is extremely thorough and well-made. If you play pathfinder, there is an adaptation of it by the same company called the Grimoire of Lost Souls.
And finally, homebrew systems
Xenotheurgy <Realms of Chaos, Xenotheurgy-Far-Realms-magic-system on this site > If you want magic to be a curse with side effects, you read HP Lovecraft, and you like both warlock and pact magic fluff, this is the system for you.
Truenaming (Improved) <Kelus, The-Way-Words-Work-(or-Truenaming-that-doesn-t-make-me-cry-myself-to-sleep-at-night) on this site > If you REALLY liked the fluff for the truenamer in the Tome of Magic, but were disappointed with the lackluster execution of said fluff, this is the system for you.
Bending <Avatar the Last Airbender D20> this system is basically a low-level version of the spell seeds from the Epic Level Handbook.
That's what I have. Please tell me if you know of any other good ones.