Overlord Styled Sandbox (IC)- Blue Rose Society [Archive]

Sønderjye

2018-03-01, 09:29 AM

Scourge's silvery hair forms a crown around her oval face. Her skin is ivory white and stands in sharp contrast to her pale blue eyes that were looking out over the horizon before the clock ticked down. There was something majestic about the whole thing. He had been in planes and high buildings before but there was something special about being on an actually floating castle. Sure, the raid on the Storm King had been a pain, some dev had probably been in a particular foul mood, who thinks of giving fire attacks to a Storm King? Definitely worth it though.

Her gaze floated aimlessly and eventually fell on the squad that were patrolling the castle on their griffins and a nostalgic smile spread on his face at the thought of their griffin races.

"I... ehm", the deep voice of an enourmous clockwork golem with the meanest face imaginable standing beside him drew him back to his surroundings. XXN00BDestroyaXX, one of their older members, had logged in 10 minutes ago. "It's been nice but wife's calling. Kids need to be taken to baseball. It's been fun." Scourge absently nodded in responds, not wanting to spoil the moment with how he couldn't care less about freakin baseball. There was an awkward silence before the giant figure dematerialized.

"Well, guys. It was a pleasure being here with you" Scourge says with a faint but perfectly symetrical smile as her piercing eyes watches the clock go to 0 and the distortion happens. She blinks, not trusting her own eyes and then frowns. "Eh? Did I miss some announcement?"

Scourge is a guy but his avatar is female gendered. Sorry for the confusion.

Edit: The following have been editted in to have it somewhere on the thread.

Search for libraries, priests, mage academy, nobles.

Priests: gods, souls,
Magic: Mage(court) or mage academy

How to become a god?

Things need to know:
What grander forces control this world? Anything above the gods?
What is a god? Hypothesis 1, it's a very powerful soul.
Where does the power of gods come from?
Also, rough power of gods?
What limitations does the gods have upon them? Any grand contract or something?
Get a list of existing gods.
Get a list of the planes.
How do souls travel places?
How are souls claimed and who can claim them?
Why haven't the good gods opposed
Do the trolls want to starve?

Gods:
Counsil of Light: Chuminug, Kaji, Disbar, Butau, Carak. Ennos and Yolt'zin assist but not part of:
Chuminug: Light and Fighting Evil.
Kaji: Civilazation.
Disbar: Is manifactured. Honour and Protection.
Butau: Law.
Carak: Trials and bravery.
Ennos & Oara: Twin gods of defence and offence. Family of Carak.
Yolt'zin: Darkness and Redemption.
Red One: Opened realm to all gods.
Dutrondyt the Jealous: Gods that created something, presumably some race.
Father of Giants:
Jotnus: Creator of Trolls. Is the father of giants? Trolls think he was the one to create the first mortals. First trolls had dull minds and bottomless appetite, and overall poorly made. Jotnuss had SERVANTS, so clearly there were things before mortals. Has a bunch of children. God of Earth and Government. Children:
- Gedjoena: Smiting and Healing.
- Phys: Flame and Propechy.
- Lizeba: Challenge and Unseen.
- Inachad: Tyranny and Suffering.
- Nacxid: Corruption and Infestation.
- Neyja: Travel and Trade. Wed to Rugdog. Mother of Ennos and Oara.
- Rugdos: War and souls. Created Valkyries and Vordr to escort souls to the right places.
Ocborth: Revelry, Destruction, Pleasure, all things Hedonistic.
Nybraura: Serenity and Cataclysm. With Ocborth parenting:
- Larkous: Disaster, Wraith.
- Brarut: Rebellion, Betrayal.
- Rausya: Despair, Curses.
Geiirlefur, Greed, Vice, Exploitation.

Eulmuash-shan-sukumi: Not actually a god but a really powerful being. Founder of troll kingdom. Might be dead.

Planes:
Mousoleum: Planes with tompstones. This is where people go to relive happy memories or sleep for the rest of eternity, when they are tired of the afterlife. Locust
Foundry: Plane in which souls are exploited. Locust
Grathngur??? 'most mortals come here. Wild Grathngur and the realms of Tezhouix the Cosmic Spider formed the mortal plane so perhaps this is the mortal plane? 'Feral Grathngur decreed that life must be struggle' and worked against Jotnuss when he tried to give boons to the trolls.
The mortal Plane: Presumably the plane the mortals are on. Locust. Contains Orsacra(presumably mountains).
The Battlefield: Afterlife. 'By planar quirk all the dead unclaimed and not destined for here are headed there.'Locust. Contains Necropolis. Can be killed for good here.

Presumably planes: Locust
Vauhlztatuztl: Locust
Luomecha: Locust
Everwood: Locust
Kjord: Locust
Oubliette: Locust
Colony: Locust
Tempest: Locust
Emeitieme: Locust
Rift: Locust
Nepras: Locust
Cruzekla: Locust
The Canvass: Locust
Void between: Locust
The Trentch: Locust

Eldest

2018-03-01, 11:19 AM

Jenna, meanwhile, is having a grand ball of things, as is appropriate at a grand ball. She'd danced, she'd walked the length of the city one more time, she'd visited her secret gardens. She was in her "native" form, a demoness with curling ram's horns, large black bat wings, dull red skin, and a curling abstract tattoo that circled her body from her calf to the back of one hand. A tail with a spade flicks about absently behind her. She was, of course, wearing her most formal dress, because what else do you wear to the end of the world? A sleek black affair, she'd magicked her bag of holding to match, and she counts down the last few seconds on a pocketwatch drawn from within the clutch of holding. At zero, she raises her glass and drinks, expecting to see a log out screen... and failing to. She coughs as the raw taste of alcohol hits her tongue, and looks at the timer, bewildered, before looking up at the sky. It had changed: she could actually feel the breeze pick up, playing across her exposed skin in a way the game never seemed to get right. She feels-touches-senses-tastes futures and possibilities, and everything sharpens to an impossible resolution as she feels burdened with the sudden knowledge of everyone at the party, all their thoughts, weaknesses, and strengths. She slumps against a column nearby, fighting against crying out, and shuts her eyes, but she can still feel their shapes against her skin. She forces her eyes open, checks the time... the pocketwatch said 12:01:42, but the light of dawn threatened against the horizon. She opens a channel over her telepathy to the other guild leaders in range. Y'all still in? The game didn't shut for me, and... She makes a few hand gestures, her personal way to interact with the UI, and nothing happens. Game's glitching. I can't pull up any menus, or log out, or anything. Something is seriously wrong.

Aleph Null

2018-03-01, 01:29 PM

Raziel was sadder than most about the end of the game. Despite this, he had resolved to have a good time in the game's final hours, and had let go of a lot of his previous inhibitions for a while. Normally not a dancer, he had learned several new steps over the course of the evening. He had indulged in alcohol, though not in excess. He had been far more social than he had ever known himself to be, even in this form, which was far more outgoing than his real-world self.

Finally the last sixty seconds showed on the clock. He stood in the main hall, and began to pray: the one prayer of mourning he knew, for the loss of the game (and thus Raziel) would be the loss of a part of himself that was irreplaceable. It was a melancholy chant, in a guttural language, but its text could be understood (due to the game's real-world language interpreter) as not sad, but full of praise -- and this was fitting, for even the ephemeral facade of a new self is something to give thanks for. The last lines were something a bit different, obviously of his own addition. "Against tyranny, to arms. Against injustice, to action. For my own sake and for the sake of the world, Amen." The clock hit zero just as he finished. He closed his eyes.

And nothing happened.

At first, anyway. Then, he suddenly felt...different. He opened his eyes, and the clarity and realness of the scene before him struck him. Then the rush of knowledge hit, and he staggered briefly, clutching his forehead and steadying himself against a wall.
And then a telepathic communication from Jenna. But it was different than it had been before -- it felt real, like she was actually transferring the thoughts to his mind, rather than simply speaking to him. He responded.
I'm still here...this fact surprises me, as I assume it does you. He attempted to pull up the menus, and nothing happened. I have the same situation with regard to the game interface as well. Wait, since when did he speak so formally?

Sønderjye

2018-03-03, 08:34 AM

A gust of winds blows across the wall on which he was standing, causing his rope to gentle caress his skin and, ehm, frontal appendages. He blushes a little. What just happened? This was.. new. And weird. And uncomfortable. He looks up at the new sky with a perfectly symetrical frown.

Y'all still in? The game didn't shut for me, and... Game's glitching. I can't pull up any menus, or log out, or anything. Something is seriously wrong.

I'm still here...this fact surprises me, as I assume it does you. I have the same situation with regard to the game interface as well.

The incomming messages does nothing to ease his worry but he doesn't answer immediately.

"What do you say, Footrest? Should we go explore?" he absentmindedly said to the familiar on his shoulder.

He reached to his right and through a suddenly formed portal he withdrew a staff, the Boomstick. In a blink he ported upwards and into space. The feeling is unsettling. Like somebody had grapped his liver and used it to give him a spin. Painful yes but in a dull sense.

"That sounds like a splendid idea, milady" came an unfamiliar voice from his side. He instinctively jerked to the side but it did little since he was freefloating in space. Turning his head he saw his familiar looking at him with attentive eyes. That part wasn't too unusual, they had done a good job at the animations. But Footrest had never talked before, baring a few preprogrammed phrases, and that definitely hadn't been one of them. He briefly debates exploring it more but decides to shelf it for later.

He ports another time and then first notices the feeling. Coldness. Of course he knew that space was cold but this. this wasn't cold as he was used to. Cold made your muscles contract and sort of had a presense to it. This could best be described as a colour. Not in a visual sense but in a tactile one. He snorts. "I am feeling colors now? This..."

He ports again just for verification and then extends his mind and suddenly stands in a grand ball. Normally this would have been a confusing experience for him, going from the vast emptyness to a crowded dancefloor but somehow his brain was able to process all the difference in a splitsecond. Another mystery.

"Castle, relay, initiate Dark Sky Protocols", he tells the sentient castle before he makes his way towards Jenna.

"Jenna" the beautiful blue-skinned lady, which Jenna knows is a guy called Chase in real life, says. Well 'saying' is a relative term. It sounds distinctively like singing, a side affect of the Muse questline. She has consern written all over her face: "I don't know what happened but we're not in Genesis anymore. And this is far too detailed to be a bug. Was there an announcement about Geness II or something that I missed? Also, Footrest talks" The last part is said with a tilt towards the Homunculus on his shoulder.

"Greater Footrest, please", Footrest says indignant and the quickly adds: "Milady"

The castle (https://docs.google.com/document/d/1AUv0HF3CM3cTHcyZWQ6RjHywkPxi1F29MddSaO4ti60/edit) is animated(though it still needs to be fully stattet out). Dark Sky Protocols is a set of instructions for the castle and the NPC's in it that roughly goes:
Any NPC's in the air are to return to the castle.
If there are no clouds on the sky use Control Weather to create some.
Castle uses it's stealth and Shadow Well skill to hide in the shadow of those.
All guards are to be mobilized and eyes in all directions, including underneath. Anything suspicious gets reported to the guild leaders, obviously including any attacks. They are to hold back on retaliating to any attack unless the retaliation won't reveal their location.
Non-guard NPC's are instructed to be ready to grap arms and general have higher awareness.

I am assuming that all guild Leaders have accepted Inspiration from Scourge's Muse race since you get a +4 insight to will saves.
ThreadNecro, can you throw a quick description of how space was like?

drack

2018-03-03, 09:36 AM

Auto-actions transcribed from backstory

--:--:-- The screen flashed black, and then it was back again. I felt a strange lethargy fill me, but I fought it off. Where was she? What was happening? Log out! Log out! LOG OUT!!! It took me more then ten minutes to notice the transmigration. To notice this impossible event. To notice that this STUPID GAME just STOLE the one who was MINE!

"ARE YOU KIDDING ME!" Rage erupted like a swelling tide breaking through a dam. A string of profanities streamed from my mouth as quickly as tender nothings ever had. I flew through the halls faster then I had ever run. I swept into the room she made with all the burning flare of an action movie's star in a gunfight. I reached for the nearest girl. A child, the third one she had made me, the third... My hand grasped desperately for her throat. If she wasn't... If she was gone, I'd just have to... I'd just have to kill all of them! I'd just have to kill all of it! I'd just have to watch everything else die in her place!

My hand kept passing through the child's throat, but that wouldn't stop me. I reached down and clamped her throat between my teeth. Fresh blood dripped down from the NPC staining the floor, but the NPC only smiled gently, lovingly, caringly. The NPC smiled like she would have smiled. The NPC slowly bled out, died, and grew cold in my jaws all while I spaced out. It was... just like her... uncannily like her... as if part of her was in them.

Slowly celerity returned to my mind. Slowly I put the pieces back together.
I was in another world. I had come here.
Somehow. I would bring her here. I would bring her to this world where we could continue.
To this world where we could still....

LOVE

Jessie-chris was furious, but that quickly melted into excitement as the idea struck him. Take her here... then... she wouldn't have to die yet... they could... they could... be together for a while more. He certainly wanted to kill her after all, but he hadn't been entirely lying when he spoke previously of all the things he wanted to watch die first... but for that, what would he need? Information, the menu was gone, but he still needed to know. Books, people... but everyone present were NPCs and all the books were already in the game. He didn't think there was any lore about transmigration in the gam... WAIT! Inter-spacial transportation, TELEPORT! ...but wait, it was too risky to test this on her, he needed, he needed... wait. Voices, he heard voices. Other people, maybe it was just a game, maybe it was just a glitch. Only... only... That look in the little girl NPC's face... it looked eerily real, more so then graphics usually can be... All the same, this helped him calm down a little, maybe it'd fix itself, maybe quickly at that... Slowly the skull that was now Jessie-chris flew up into the air over the sleepy little town that was his guild, slowly drifting towards the true guildhall hidden in plain sight. His reply was short and sweet, as if to belie all that furious screaming just a moment past. "For now, lets meet up and try to figure out what's going on here."

neriractor

2018-03-03, 08:27 PM

Abel had excused himself from the party roughly half an hour before the end, planning to quickly inspect some of the tomes and tablets he hadn´t been able to read before and then return for the final goodbye, the ball was a ball after all and no amount of game design would make being a dancing doe any less awkard for him.

As the final hour came through he found himself lost in the reading, spending all but the final tick immersed in the lore, when the timer when through he kept on, before suddenly snapping at how godamn distracting the wall behind him was, then how weird it was that his third person view changed format out of a sudden, how impossible it was to see everything, how light he felt...

He ran, the air would have left all else unhearable at the speed he went, but he could clearly hear everyone he passed by, never crashing he quickly ran through the entire town, with the feeling of the wind through his mane he let a loud exclamation leave his mouth "WOOOOO!!!"

He passed by the castle and saw the growing crowd of NPCs and sighed Dark sky, now?.

he stopped, the sudden inertia threatening to throw him ahead if he hadn´t kept a steady footing, he paid no mind to that, the euforia of his run carrying him through as he jump ahead, blinking to the ball room.

For a moment he stood speechless, contemplating that brief instant He had never actually seen a different plane while teleporting before, right? He then saw the entire ballroom around him... It´ll take some getting used to and approached the discussion being had by the other heads of the guild "So, what is the emergency?"

Sønderjye

2018-03-03, 10:09 PM

Ball

"Damian", Scourge greeted with an unearthly smile. He was glad to see another teamate still here but he couldn't help but to feel an underlying saltiness that he had felt ever since Damian finished the Cerynitis questline. Unearthly Speed was such a bull**** ability.

"I honestly have no clue and it bugs me. For one thing we're definitely not in Genesis anymore. I went 10 galaxies out and the sky limit seems to have disappeared. No HUD and interface. Things feel... different. I process coldness different now it seems. Maybe an expansion? Try this. Stand still". He then snaps.

The snap is louder than it had any right to be. If one could see sound waves, they would have seen them turn and twist and becoming a single beams that crashed into Abel with enough force to blow a door off it's hinges[Unless he tries to dodge which he easily could. If he dodged they slam into the ground immediately behind where he stood].

The boom echoed in the room and when it died out there was an erry silence. The music had stopped playing and the NPC's had turned to stare at the trouple with a mixture of fear, confusion, anger and consern.

Not rolling to hit because you'll just dodge if you want to:
Ray: [roll0] Sonic Damage

He stays to discuss things a little later and then says: "Let me go get the others. I don't trust the privacy of telepathy" and vanishes in thin air.

Raziel

Inspiration, the abilty that allows Scourge to teleport to predesignated individuals, were working differently that before as well. Before he had pulled up a menu of those he had designated and simply pressed the option for teleporting. Now though it was like he had a sixth sense and when he saw with it he could see the threads expanding out from him to the people. He instinctively knew that the one he was looking at was Benjamin's and he pulled in it.

Scourge materialized just in front of Raziel. "Hey Ben, good to see you. Stuff is wrong and we're dicussing things in the Unsolved Question. Castle can help you out if you get lost" the last was said with a wink, referencing to that one time that Benjamin missed a guild meeting because he got lost. Benjamin knew that Scourge was a guy in a female avatar but that wink would have had blood rush from the brain in most men. With that she winks out of existance.

Jessie-Chris

He had been more than a little reluctant to pulling in Jessie-Chris's thread. Not so much because of the guy himself but because of the feedback he was getting from the thread. Anger and fury in large volumes and a killer instinct that threatened to overwhelm him. He pulled regardless.

Before the skull got very far towards the guild hall, Scourge suddenly popped out of thin air. "Hey Jessie, are you O..." the conserned voice stops mid-sentence as her eyes fall upon the lifeless body that were still leaking blood from her throat. "What happened? I.." She stops again as she notices the blood still on the floating skull's teeth. 'Scarlet was just an NPC. An NPC! We've killed plenty of those before. I've killed plenty of those before'. But the words rang hallow. Everything from visuals to the smell to his stomach clenching told him otherwise. Chase could feel his lunch threatening to make it's way back up. Or something similar anyway, it wasn't quite the same feeling but at least adjacent. In a sudden flash Scourge regains a perfect composure and in a suspiciously neutral, but still singing, tone she says "I am distinctly uncomfortable with this. We're meeting in the Unsolved Question". And with that short message she flees from the scene, not wanting to spend another moment there.

I made a few assumptions in this post. As always let me know if any of them makes you uncomfortable or you'd like me to change something for whatever reason.

Aleph Null

2018-03-03, 11:10 PM

"Yes, I have also noticed the rather unusual circumstances we have found ourselves in..."
Raziel, who normally would have reddened at the comment about getting lost, responded with an "I am aware." He makes for the large guild hall.

drack

2018-03-04, 11:06 AM

Jessit-Chris smiled sisterly, or was it just his character graphics that made it look that way. "What's there to be distinctly uncomfortable about? This is great! Think of all the possibilities to come!" A giddy chuckle escapes him as he follows after, back to meet up with the rest of the guild.

Eldest

2018-03-04, 12:00 PM

Jenna arches an eyebrow at the sudden attack spell, but she's mentally frazzled. That sounded... almost real. She raises her voice, letting it carry throughout the hall. We may have a problem. The end of the world appears to have been canceled. We're going to have a leadership meeting, see what we can figure out. In the meantime, we're under Dark Skies protocol, so to your posts and stay there. She turns to the other leaders as the show, and nods. The Unsolved Question, I think. There are several meeting places, but the Unsolved Question is Jenna's favorite, because it's a bar. Traditions must be maintained, after all.

Sønderjye

2018-03-04, 02:03 PM

Ball

A frown appeared on Chase's forehead hearing Jenna talk. It wasn't the most.. delicate handling of what appeared to be actual people who just witnessed one of their top lord attack another. He didn't stick around to hear how they reacted to the news that there had been a scheduled end of the world however.

Raziel

Scourge blinked. Twice. Why were Ben talking like an NPC? She shakes her head, bigger problems right now that someone enjoying some roleplaying. He then heads out to find the demi-lich.

Jessie-Chris

Chase stared at the floating skull in disbelief. "What are you talking about? Sarah spent.." partway through his sentence he suddenly realizes that of course Jes knew how long it had taken Sarah to make Scarlet. And Jes had butchered it.. her.. anyway. At the same time his brain was flooded with possibilities for Jessie's behaviour and most of them got immediately discarded as being unlikely leaving only a few option left. One of the disturbing ones being that both Jessie's and Ben's behaviour was being affected by their character. His brain then suggested a few helpful suggestions to how he could manipulate Jessie into putting Scarlet back together. He shook his head and ported away. This was too much.

Unsolved Question

"A triple Blue" Scourge shouts after the server as she sinks into the chair, thinking. There was a lot of unknowns and even more possible scenarios that had to be sorted through.

neriractor

2018-03-04, 04:05 PM

"Chase" he responded with a courteous nod and returning the smile. He missed most of what was said, completely focused on how incredibly good Scourge´s sprite looked, it was just so... "...Stand still", good thing that train of thought ended "Sure thing." he responded unsure, but he couldn´t really explain why he wasn´t listening.

The beam crashed against him as predictend and he once again regretted not having any limbs that could be used to cover his bleeding ears with as he screamed loud enough to be heard over that annoying beep that just wouldn´t stop "YOU *******!" but Scourge was already gone, he took a moment to pass the shock of feeling actual pain in the game and to let the beep lessen before half-heartedly responding to Jenna "Sure, the unsolved question sounds nice..."

drack

2018-03-04, 05:57 PM

Jessie-Chris kindly allowed Chase to sit in the awkward silence he'd made for himself. After all, he had more important things to worry about. No, not how to get back, how to bring the rest of their world over here.

Eldest

2018-03-04, 08:57 PM

The Unsolved Question

The name was, after all, a reference to a silly question: chicken or the egg? The location, however, was a pub straight out of an English town at first glance. Only when you looked closer did you see all the little details, the subtly wrong features that made it clear the bar was more than it appeared. Morgan had spend days on this place, stuffing it full of little hints to each and every puzzle in her domain. It was her magnum opus. She still tweaked it constantly, to the degree that by now it's about three times as big on the inside as it was on the outside, and that's just the public areas. She gestures to the barkeep, James. Water, till we figure out what's going on.

Aleph Null

2018-03-04, 10:16 PM

Raziel entered the Unsolved Question. From the look on his face it was obvious that the sudden mental changes that came upon him had been overwhelming; rather than appearing exhausted, however, he simply appeared strained. "I would state my concern, were it not for the fact that I am confident everyone else here shares it."
After entering the bar and sitting down on a bar stool, he asks, "What is our current plan of action?"

drack

2018-03-05, 05:17 AM

Sønderjye

2018-03-05, 06:05 AM

"I would state my concern, were it not for the fact that I am confident everyone else here shares it."

"Ben, I get that roleplaying can be fun but let's be serious here for a moment", Scourge reprimands the giant archangel before turning to accept her drink from the server and carefully taking a sip. The cold liquid ran down her throat, painting a trail of heat-color, and... nothing? No taste? He didn't like where this was pointing.

He reaches into his pocket dimension for his staff and after a quick wave their table is encapsuled in a semi-transparent screen, before he let it drop back into the pocket dimension. "That should ensure privacy"

"I agree that intel gathering is most important right now, in particular regarding what just happened. I'd wager that the most likely scenario is that they shipped an extension for Genesis with some new high-tech gadgets and there was a bug that removed the interface. There is of course a number of things that doesn't add up, like why there weren't any announcements, why a bug like that wasn't caught on the offset, or why my tactile senses don't work as they normally do. Another possibility, as Jes pointed out, is that we actually are in another dimension. There is so many things wrong with that theory but in lack of better explanation I'll consider it. And the implications too dire to ignore. How can we figure out which is the case? Wish? Gate to Earth? Divination magic? Can we think of anything non-magical in case magic is compromised?"

Spell is Mage's Private Sanctum. Blocks scrying attempts, people can't see in and sounds stay within the barrier.

Aleph Null

2018-03-05, 12:04 PM

Raziel looked confused for a moment, before realizing that formal speech was in fact not his usual MO.
"Serious? I'm being completely serious. The reason for my more formal speech...that has simply been a change in what seems natural to me."
It would make sense to the others, who would have known Ben not to be the type to joke around, especially not when life could be on the line.
"With regard to the dimension theory: in the event that we have actually been transported into the world of Genesis, the best evidence to support that claim would be the presence of stimuli and sensations that either could not have been simulated by the game due to technical limitations (or legal ones), or were simply so foreign to the human mind that a reasonable simulation could not be fabricated." He pondered another moment.
"I could present examples of both...the overwhelming influx of information and knowledge that I experienced just after the interfaces disappeared was not something that even full-dive technology could create, as far as I am aware, since it is not something that has ever happened to a human in the real world. In addition, I have also noticed a shift in my vernacular -- and as far as I know full-dive cannot alter one's personality, or what feels natural to a person."
He looks around the table.
"Are there any other examples of this?"

Eldest

2018-03-05, 12:40 PM

The Unanswered Question

Jenna takes a deep breath in and focuses. The stars were different. We might try to jump to original Genesis with a Greater Teleport, or perhaps to another planet. If we can't, probably running against the limit of the system running this sim. But... crazy as it seems, this seems real. All the NPCs reacted... properly. I got an influx of information, like all my buffs suddenly started feeding me information instead of just giving me number boosts. And this version would be rated differently in the US, at least, the booze felt real and I can feel some of Jenna's intimate bits that were blocked before. She shrugs, unruffled by bringing up that. She hopes it wasn't the succubus talking, since Ben seemed to be speaking in a far more formal manner than before. She stops dead as she realized. Ahhhh. Ben, feel any particular urge to smite the evil among you?

ThreadNecro5

2018-03-05, 02:27 PM

As Jessie-Chris enters, he replies "Our first move should probably be to gather information, right? If it's a problem IRL there's nothing we can do but wait for someone else to fix it, whereas if it's real.... There's something about these NPCs which is making them seem less like NPCs, how much else has been effected? My first question would be, if we really got shifted to another dimension, how does dimensional magic work now?"
Using the gate spell in his tooth ring of major spell storing, and another from a spell slot, Jessie-Chris attempts to open a gate both to somewhere safe in this mysterious new land, as well as to their original IRL world, leaving the gates for others to experiment with.

Your two Gates struggle to exist for some moments. The one to earth just fails as the magic disperses to no effect. The second is more promising as it flickers between several exit locations over split-seconds before just forming an empty ring that collapses moments later, as it did in game when you knew no valid plane to transport too and needed to quest for or purchase a book for the unlock.

ThreadNecro, can you throw a quick description of how space was like?
Essentially realistic, as in mostly empty. Outside of the area around the moon let's say it was procedurally generated stellar phenomena that would change between server maintenance so the structures would change. Was a source of rare materials however but other than the guild who based themselves there. While a major source of crafting components they were otherwise minor due to the space area away from the moon being unpopular and so ignored except during one time during a Halloween event with a HP Lovecraft theme.

Sønderjye

2018-03-05, 02:33 PM

"All of those are weak evidence at best", Scourge replies: "Don't think about the alternative as if it was the old game that got slightly better. We can quickly discard that. What I'm saying is that the alternative is that something massive happened in computing power and technology and someone used that to ship an expansion with an incredible boost in simulation. All of what you said can have a number of explanations under the simulation theory. Testing out the limits of what it could be if it was a simulation is a possibility but what limits if the computing power got such a massive boost? I'd say I'm leaning towards the dimension shift theory but I am looking for something conclusive."

He looks thoughtfully at the two gates: "I'm going to call that as a point in favour of the simulation theory unless there's something sentient deciding were we go or there are multiple layers of dimensions and we can only access some."

Aleph Null

2018-03-05, 02:53 PM

"Perhaps the most important fact that kills the theory that this is simulated is the fact that our hardware has not changed. Regardless of any possible changes in the programming,
it would require a massive change in hardware to achieve these things. Regardless, it does appear that we are trapped in here with no clear means of escape, meaning that we are going to need to decide what we plan to do in the meantime. The Gates mean nothing -- Earth couldn't possibly have a Gate opened to it as it is dead-magic."
Raziel takes a sip of water.
"The biggest question is how the NPCs acquired their personalities...And as to your question Jenna, my senses are not giving me any such urges, possibly due to our being acquainted already."

drack

2018-03-05, 07:18 PM

Seeing his gates fail, Jessie-Chris keeps at trying to unravel these mysteries through trial and error, this time casting astral projection

OOC
http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-_owdlY_ro6o/UPO2mDW8YTI/AAAAAAAAF-Q/GtJP4vW2QIY/s1600/the+matrix_revolutions+3.jpg

Sønderjye

2018-03-06, 08:58 AM

Seeing that Jenna and Ben seemed unflinching in their oppinion and Jessie-Chris had started casting a 30 minute spell, Scourge sighs: "Fine, you've made up your mind, and I'll consede that the consequences of being wrong are much more severe if this is real life rather than a simulation. The personalities aren't a problem under either theory though. If we are in a simulation the technology is sufficiently advanced to do that and if we're in another dimension someone made realistic copies based on Genesis. In either case we can't know if we're real or if we're copies."

"In that case there are many things to learn. Whether Earth exist somewhere around and if so if we can access it. What the power of our surroundings are relative to ours, including dangers. What happens if we die and whether ressurection magic works on us, and by extension how souls and the afterlife works here. Who and what were brought with us from Genesis?", his thoughts went to the HP Lovecraft halloween event and shuttered. To his suprise the shutter were interupted almost immediately after it had begun. That too was conserning. "Other priority knowledge? Additionally we should send some of our minions to the moon. I swung by earlier and there's a bunch of crafting materials flowing around, we'll probably need the powerup."

neriractor

2018-03-06, 11:49 AM

Abel ordered something strong and left it at that, James serving his drink in a bowl as previously agreed, the beep was finally gone and he joined in the conversation "So, if I understand clearly we are badly lacking in info, but the current strongest theory by elimination is that we are in an alternate dimension mimicking the game? checks out." he continued to work on his drink, this was too much.

ThreadNecro5

2018-03-07, 03:53 PM

One of the guards marches up you all and Salutes.

"Report! Scouts have reported we are within unfamiliar skies, both stars and land are unfamiliar. We appear to be above the lover peaks of a mountain range, largest ever recorded. Life is mostly limited to small birds but we have eyes on a local roc and are maintaining observation. Reports of possible avian or chiropteran humanoids to the north but at the distances we could not confirm, we do not appear to have been spotted ourselves anyway. We have confirmation of what seems to be a nomadic civilisation to the western lowlands, racial makeup unknown".

"I was also told to inform you clean-up has been finished for Jessie-Chris and to request what is to be done with the body".

Seeing his gates fail, Jessie-Chris keeps at trying to unravel these mysteries through trial and error, this time casting astral projection

OOC
http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-_owdlY_ro6o/UPO2mDW8YTI/AAAAAAAAF-Q/GtJP4vW2QIY/s1600/the+matrix_revolutions+3.jpg

Whatever may have happened around you in the last half-hour your skull drops to the ground as you mind find itself... elsewhere.

It is a malestom of shifting bits of anything and everything, like an entire worlds were tore apart, put into a bag, and shook, and where you are now is the result. Yet despite this this place is mostly empty and a riot of colour, colour that periodically congeals into more of the stuff around you or merges with others to make different things.

For the sake of speed I am making a perception check on your behalf. Will edit in the result.
[roll0]

Periodically a humanoid figure, or other less humanoid one, drop for nothing into view only to be pulled somewhere like in a current. Once figure is spontaneously pulled into a gate that opened for a split-second.

Floating towards you is a vast inverse pyramid atop which lie mounds of coiling black and purple coils. Rising above it is a flower like head turning to face you.

drack

2018-03-07, 04:08 PM

Jessie-Chris will try to use what he knows of the game to intuitively navigate towards what would have been the material plane in the game, though if he happens to pick the wrong one that might work too. Essentially a cross of updating maps and exploring :smallsmile:

Eldest

2018-03-07, 05:10 PM

Cleanup...? Jenna scowls. Jessie-Chris wasn't normally unstable. Something else to worry about. Cremate with full honors at a later date, but don't scatter the ashes like normal until we figure out where we are. And for the record, no, I don't believe that we're actually in the damn game. But something weird happened, and we need to figure out what. It is possible that it happened, therefore we can't rule it out, especially since none of the other options seem even vaguely likely. What else is there, a mass upload to the Matrix?
Sneakily unlocking extra abilities in our VR gear, which I might note never worked with taste?
I should be able to physically take off my headset. But I've tried, and no dice. She turns to the scout again. How far out are the north and west are those people?

ThreadNecro5

2018-03-07, 05:38 PM

I was mid edit when you posted, you may want to change your post

Cleanup...? Jenna scowls. Jessie-Chris wasn't normally unstable. Something else to worry about. Cremate with full honors at a later date, but don't scatter the ashes like normal until we figure out where we are. And for the record, no, I don't believe that we're actually in the damn game. But something weird happened, and we need to figure out what. It is possible that it happened, therefore we can't rule it out, especially since none of the other options seem even vaguely likely. What else is there, a mass upload to the Matrix?
Sneakily unlocking extra abilities in our VR gear, which I might note never worked with taste?
I should be able to physically take off my headset. But I've tried, and no dice. She turns to the scout again. How far out are the north and west are those people?

"The nomads were approximately four miles away and traveling west, while the possible fliers were just over half that, two and a quarter up. More were you to include the incline".

drack

2018-03-07, 05:44 PM

Sønderjye

2018-03-07, 10:01 PM

Scurge pointedly ignores commenting on Abel's statement.

<It was a cleanup of Scarlet, Jessie gnawed her to death after the game started. If we're running with parallel world that was a person, Jenna. I get that you are worried about Ben but Jessie's avatar was a capital Evil Undead Lord.>, Scourge metnally says to Jenna.

"Good job solider. Send out the elite scouts, I want reports on the local fauna, threat levels, intends and rough capabilities on all possible threats. Be sure to stay hidden and don't do anything that might upset any potential actors, we don't know whether there are bigger fish nearby. Also" he waves her hand and conjured a number of semi-tangible floating eyes appear. "if feasible, give one of these to each scouting team and return them to me when they come back."

The eyes are Prying Eyes with a Greater Magic Aura to conseal the magic aura.

He then starts burning through spells in quick succession

First he casts divide mind to gain an extra standard/turn.
He then casts temporal Divergenc(using the extra action to cast blood money to circumvene the cost) and then casts Metafaculty (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/psionics-unleashed/psionic-powers/m/metafaculty/)to learn about his mother and detect detect magic as the two timelines, choosing the timeline in which he cast detect magic. This way he learns the knowledge he would have learned from Metafaculty but if any divinations later are asked if he(or anyone) did this it will come back as a no since that is not the timeline we are in.
If temporal Divergence doesn't work (because it technically only works for standard action spells and Staff Lord makes casting two spells from a staff a full-round action) he'll do the same thing but Metafaculty followed by Time Regression.

He'll do this for a few people back at Earth, for Jessie-Chris, for some of the older players of Genesis(including himself and Nomad from Humane Authorities) and for various powerful beings that existed in Genesis(namely the one he sold his soul to).

Aleph Null

2018-03-08, 03:04 PM

"We should take care to ensure we don't cause unnecessary disruptions, as well. In the event my theory is correct, it could become problematic. That said, I am curious about something myself." He then activated a spell-like ability.

You contact your deity–or agents thereof–and ask questions that can be answered by a simple yes or no. (A cleric of no particular deity contacts a philosophically allied deity.) You are allowed one such question per caster level. The answers given are correct within the limits of the entity’s knowledge. “Unclear” is a legitimate answer, because powerful beings of the Outer Planes are not necessarily omniscient. In cases where a one-word answer would be misleading or contrary to the deity’s interests, a short phrase (five words or less) may be given as an answer instead.

The spell, at best, provides information to aid character decisions. The entities contacted structure their answers to further their own purposes. If you lag, discuss the answers, or go off to do anything else, the spell ends.
Raziel would attempt to contact whatever lawful good deity he knew of in the game's lore. I'm allowed to neglect the components, as it's a spell-like ability, but I'm not sure about the casting time.

neriractor

2018-03-09, 02:36 PM

He stared at the two empty bowls while finishing a third, it was useless, the liquid felt like booze but he couldn´t get even the slightest hint of inhebration, with a sigh he made a note to get stronger stuff eventually and turned to the group now that his grumpiness was gone, or at least the object of it had changed. "on the topic of ressurection, I believe Jessie here has provided us with a nice opportunity, if the alternate dimension theory is right there is no reason why the NPCs..."

He thought for a moment before speaking through Jenna´s telepathy so she´ll hopefully relay to the others -You know, if the NPCs are real we may want to stop calling them that, its bound to sound like a slur once they pick up on it-. "... shouldn´t ressurect exactly the same, and Stacy´s accident just happened so the experiment will be pretty cheap too."

ThreadNecro5

2018-03-09, 05:34 PM

OOC
Nah, sounds psychedelic. Unless it starts talking to me we're just strangers passing in the night. I'll probably meet its gaze for a moment so we cam acknowledge each other's existence while we're here.

As you face the worm three of it's topmost facing appendages turn you point in your direction as it continues to drift...

Beyond the usual, well the usual here, nothing much else happens.

"Good job solider. Send out the elite scouts, I want reports on the local fauna, threat levels, intends and rough capabilities on all possible threats. Be sure to stay hidden and don't do anything that might upset any potential actors, we don't know whether there are bigger fish nearby. Also" he waves her hand and conjured a number of semi-tangible floating eyes appear. "if feasible, give one of these to each scouting team and return them to me when they come back."

"At once." says the guard before leaving to carry out its orders.

He then starts burning through spells in quick succession

First he casts divide mind to gain an extra standard/turn.
He then casts temporal Divergenc(using the extra action to cast blood money to circumvene the cost) and then casts Metafaculty (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/psionics-unleashed/psionic-powers/m/metafaculty/)to learn about his mother and detect detect magic as the two timelines, choosing the timeline in which he cast detect magic. This way he learns the knowledge he would have learned from Metafaculty but if any divinations later are asked if he(or anyone) did this it will come back as a no since that is not the timeline we are in.
If temporal Divergence doesn't work (because it technically only works for standard action spells and Staff Lord makes casting two spells from a staff a full-round action) he'll do the same thing but Metafaculty followed by Time Regression.

He'll do this for a few people back at Earth, for Jessie-Chris, for some of the older players of Genesis(including himself and Nomad from Humane Authorities) and for various powerful beings that existed in Genesis(namely the one he sold his soul to).

You discover the following during your state of elevated thought.
Your Mother:
As far as the spell tells you no such figure exists.

Jessie-Chris:
Knowledge of the skull fills you.
Jessie-Chris; The Demilich. Sould drawn to Law and Evil. Trained In spellcasting; Shapeshifter of some skill; and notable for ferocity in melee.
wizard/Agent of the Grave//shifter//barbarian 2
Highly powerful. Location: Blue Rose Society Headquarters and Void Between
Holds ownership of ten magical rings, ten capable of transportation with predesignated individuals, one containing sufficient magical charge to achieve potentially any effect, but only three times, and finally one that may store within the effects of various magics for later use or storage.
No Knowledge on recent activities. The spell does not find him.

Yourself:
You are Scorge: Lich formed of a Muse: Your soul holds no leaning: Master of magic and especially imbuing it within objects: Magical knowledge extends into combining it with bladework and within music. Sorcerer20//Artisan20//Arcanist1/Bard1/Magus3
Highly powerful. Location: Blue Rose Society Headquarters

Holds ownership of A modified staff of nigh-unparalleled power, a headband that improves your mental ability, Rings that make it easier for the wearer to partition their mind with containing the formulae of spellcasting...

The list continues, describing your possessions, not by mechanical effect or name, but by the effects of their enchantments.

...No Knowledge on your activities. The spell does cannot find you.

Nomad:
Nomad; a Gold Dragon. Soul drawn to Law and Evil. Trained In spellcasting, including how to lace it with bladework; Champion of Dark Powers; Can channel their emotions into magical combat abilities.
Wizard 15/Armorist 2/ Magus 1(Kensei)/Anti Paladin 2/Harbringer 20
Highly powerful. Location: H.A.R.M Headquarters
Holds ownership of two magical rings, One make it easier for the wearer to partition their mind with containing the formulae of spellcasting, one heals the wearer at accelerated pace. An amulet that toughens the hide, may convert magic of one type to a like form, and simplifies the formulae needed to focus upon spellwork. a robe that draws upon ties of the soul to emit energy that serves as fine armour and is so magically saturated enhances ones mind to preform spellwork. An intelligence boosting headband. A stone that may impression souls. A strength increasing belt. gauntlets that processes magic into shorter ranged and single target form, and grant additional knowledge and detection off magic. A bag that may summon small animals.
No Knowledge on recent activities. The spell does not find him.

When looking for beings from the game each and every one comes up as not existing until your last search where luckily your exact thoughts give you something.

The One You Sold Your Soul To:
Ap-
The half-formed name seems to flicker in your head before the knowledge changes utterly.

Of the Locust.

That is its name. It and Them.

Of the Locust; A god-devouring plague, one divinity itself, mere insect; Evil and Destruction, and Unity, embodied; A god with dominion over Entropy, Decay, and Unity.
Power is Deific; Of the Locust's influence reaches Vauhlztatuztl. Of the Locust's infulence reaches Mausoleum. Of the Locust's infulence reaches Luomecha. Of the Locust's infulence reaches Everwood. Of the Locust's infulence reaches Kjord. Of the Locust's infulence reaches Oubliette. Of the Locust's infulence reaches The Colony. Of the Locust's infulence reaches Tempest. Of the Locust's infulence reaches Emeitieme. Of the Locust's infulence reachesThe mortal Plane . Of the Locust's infulence reaches The Battlefield. Of the Locust's infulence reaches Rift. Of the Locust's infulence reaches The Foundry. Of the Locust's infulence reaches Nepras. Of the Locust's infulence reaches Cruzekla. Of the Locust's infulence reachesThe Canvass. Of the Locust's infulence reaches Void between. Of the Locust is within The Trentch.

The Thing holds ownership of countless items of vast power, with the end of the list containing all your possessions and then you yourself, among others.

Of the Locust if preforming countless actions. Planning the end of civilisations, spreading it's influence, empowering champions, but one action above all is repeated incessantly: attempting to escape.

Ten you see It, It and Them. Of the Locust swarms in the empty world of dust and ash, in the distance great towers of the stuff form some manner of civilisation far off. Your owner is formed of a cyclone of insects, locust both mundane and monstrous. Beyond that countless creatures reshaped to join the whole. It watches you back.

"We should take care to ensure we don't cause unnecessary disruptions, as well. In the event my theory is correct, it could become problematic. That said, I am curious about something myself." He then activated a spell-like ability.
You establish a link with something. You feel your mind brush it, radiant and righteous, but not who you intended to contact. It waits for your first question.

Aleph Null

2018-03-09, 06:10 PM

Interesting. This feels...unlike anything I have ever felt...
Raziel opens with the following questions.
"First, this may seem like a strange question, but is this world the world of Genesis? Second, is the lich Jessie-Chris still alive? Third, do you know of a place called Earth?"
His follow up will depend on the responses to these questions.

Sønderjye

2018-03-10, 09:10 AM

Going with the latter of the two for two options simplicity.
Tipping my hat at the details.
As Hamste mentioned in the OOC it was only the future action that previously were declared undivinable and not the location. Does this influence whether I can find the locations?
The spell explicitly states that I learn the character levels. I get that you want this to be non-system terms but there's at least 20 classes that grant spellcasting and a number that runs on channeling emotions. Also, character levels for Of the Locust?
The staff is called the Boomstick in case someone asks.

A splitsecond passes as time have replayed the last 6 seconds 15 times of so, and leaves Scourge paler than usual. The feature was weird on an undead but Scourge had completed the 'the Human Within' questline during one of the halloween special events which was also why she had working skin and didn't look like an abomination despite being a nightmare lich.

'It stared back'. She shutters. That had to be the most frightening thing he had ever seen. Good thing time had rewinded. A nagging doubt tells him that a divine being could ignore time reversals but he quells it. If it could ignore the flow of time it's prison would already have been corroded. Right?

Scourge takes a deep breath to try to calm herself before addressing her companions: "I learned a few intersting things. Insofar as we can trust information gathered with magic, we weren't the only players are here. Not all but some. Nomad is here so we should expect the NPC's from the Counsil of Wyrms to be around, probably other guilds. None of the big baddies from Genesis were transported here but this place have it's own gods who can probably kick our arses. Frankly I don't know what's more terrifying, the fact that evil gods exist or that random earthlings have gotten powers of gods, I expect to see an undead apocalypse within the week. Should we burn some of the daily gold for a wish to learn what happened?"

"That reminds me, we should buff up on dailies. I for one didn't bother with mind blank and such when the game was ending anyway. Anyone who doesn't have something for divinations?", and with that he casts another sequence of spells including mind blank[found on the sheet].

"Ben, do you mind asking how divine beings gather their power. Is it through worship or intrinsic?"

His mind wanders back to dissect more of the information he got. A lot of names of presumably places. In Genesis the knowledge skills had let you learn useful details about monsters you encountered even if you as a player didn't know about any of it. But how would it work here? He tries to focus on one of the names and let it fill his mind.

Knowledge on Vauhlztatuztl [roll0]
He'll also try on Everwood [roll1]
Mausoleum [roll2]

drack

2018-03-11, 01:46 AM

ThreadNecro5

2018-03-12, 03:23 PM

After trippin' for a bit on this sweet acid, Jessie-Chris will start exploring the various portals. If it's the same as the game he'll try for one to what was the material plane, if not, he'll sample them at random.

While the periodic portals prove too fleeting for you to reach before their chosen target passes through, by concentrating to can feel your way back to the plane your body (or rather, head) is on. The result resembles the classic 'hyperspace' image from one classic sci-fi or another as the plane seems to fold around you and you pop back into somewhere sane.

You appear at a rather mundane forest, well mundane bar the fact everything is half again as large as it should be.

I will make a note you can access the material plane equivalent and what for now is dub 'acid trip' until you find the real name for planar travel purposes.

Interesting. This feels...unlike anything I have ever felt...
Raziel opens with the following questions.
"First, this may seem like a strange question, but is this world the world of Genesis? Second, is the lich Jessie-Chris still alive? Third, do you know of a place called Earth?"
His follow up will depend on the responses to these questions.

The voice is on the deep side but unable to be defined as male or female. What can be said is it is inhuman and sounds like shattering glass, only deeper and merged with what is almost brass instruments.

It answers in turn. "No. No. No". Each answer the same.

Going with the latter of the two for two options simplicity.
Tipping my hat at the details.
As Hamste mentioned in the OOC it was only the future action that previously were declared undivinable and not the location. Does this influence whether I can find the locations?
The spell explicitly states that I learn the character levels. I get that you want this to be non-system terms but there's at least 20 classes that grant spellcasting and a number that runs on channeling emotions. Also, character levels for Of the Locust?
The staff is called the Boomstick in case someone asks.

Will edit locations and levels in.

As for levels of Of the Locust, were I to stat it up at it wouldn't have any, be 20th level everything, and off the charts, at the same time. It's kind of weird and hard to define.

His mind wanders back to dissect more of the information he got. A lot of names of presumably places. In Genesis the knowledge skills had let you learn useful details about monsters you encountered even if you as a player didn't know about any of it. But how would it work here? He tries to focus on one of the names and let it fill his mind.

Knowledge on Vauhlztatuztl [roll0]
He'll also try on Everwood [roll1]
Mausoleum [roll2]

You get nothing beyond educated guesses that can be made from the name.
Vauhlztatuztl is gibberish, vaguely Aztec or Mayan gibberish but gibberish none the less.

Everwood? Well that has some etamology to be deciphered and is seemingly in plain English, or Common or whatever. Perhaps some manner of endless forest.

A Mausoleum was a building containing tombs. a tomb is and encoded areas the dead are kept in. The list of locations made reference to a 'Mortal Plane' meaning the others were likely planes themselves. So perhaps the Mausoleum is an afterlife of some stripe?

Sønderjye

2018-03-13, 10:51 AM

"Ugh. Knowledge Skills sucks" Chase complains. Just for good measure he tries to use the skill on the other names that he got from the Locust. A mental image of the eyes staring at him comes up and he shivers again. At least he was happy that he had contingencies in place, should he die.

He needed more intel and he couldn't continue burning spells like he had been doing. Sure, he could wait for the scouting team to come back but that would be a waste of time and he had already been blowing a lot of spells. A smile forms at the thought of one of his old tricks, maybe that'd work here.

"I'll be back in a few" she says before he vanishes in thin air.

About 10 minutes later he returns, having instructed one simulacrum to teleport south and start exploring, another to create an item and two more to spend time on gaining information through divination spells and be in contact.

With that done he moves on to the next stage of investegation. How did their progressing work? Back in Genesis there were xp and levels and skill points. If this was real though, there was at least some chance that he could gain skills without killing creeps for XP. He asks for a big of room expansion from Castle, summons a climping wall and starts training a skill he had never bothered to put skills into: climb.

Telepathic bond creates for the simulacrums.
The divining simulacrums are using legend lore w/ blood money to learn about the place/plane/world/kingdom they are in and such.
I'd like to play out the simulacrum to the south though.

ThreadNecro5

2018-03-14, 04:16 PM

About 10 minutes later he returns, having instructed one simulacrum to teleport south and start exploring, another to create an item and two more to spend time on gaining information through divination spells and be in contact.

After a delay your divining simulacra return with their revealed legends.
The site beneath the flying castle is nameless but was twelve hundred years ago the site of the battle that heralded the end of the Iulisson Crusade at the hand of prince Gandaas, later emperor Niiqquulamuusu the Magnanimous, where the young prince formed the alliance with the western barbarians who buried enemy flanking forces with the aid of their earth spirit allies. At the end of the battle the enemy commander was captured, his skin flensed and made into the velum his fall was recorded on and his horns plated with precious gold and made into a great war-crown for the prince's eventual coronation.

You stand upon what is now the Mortal Plane, yet as it's greatest legend tells it was not always this, once one was two, and the realms of Tezhouix the Cosmic Spider and the Wild Grathngur collided in their endless drift through the void. The primordial devastation was total, yet by the end the two planes were forever bonded. They ceased to drift and became an eternal fulcrum the planes would spin around, the shards of the Red One's world held within the celestial void of the other. The remnants of each gods pure plane form the poles of this fused plane and there the final fates of their followers formed.

The world you stand on is the largest fragment that drifted from Grathngur's plane and into the void and the world mot mortal life calls home. Here in forgotten days before the first war the Red One decreed his world open to all creations as so the other gods took to filling it with life and shaping it to their desires. During the Great Merge the rest of the plane took the opportunity to condense the works of these other gods into a mass, like a fruit with a gall, to be free of what it rejects. And so it is to this day.

The legend of the nation seems to be a creation myth from a local oral tradition. The Nation of Crag was born when Dutrondyt the Jealous descended to the world to let all the gods creations witness his majesty, as he did descend from on high his landing left great cataclysm that killed all for miles and rouse the mountains the land took its name from. Roused to wrath that none were there to see perfection that is Dutrondyt he, in endless generosity, took the failed idea of the Father of Giants and gave life to the rocks and, in infinite wisdom, gave them the gifts of all that walks, crawls, swims, and flies, so that it were superior to all other life. And so our people were born. After he was satisfied we saw the perfection we were crafted in echo of our lord went onward to give his gift to others. From here our newborn people fought over who should rule the others and they judged over who most resembled their creator. All but one. Eulmuash-shan-sukumi, first crafted and most perfect of all, He was smart, for the others forgot to check for sharing the mind of the creator. And so he travelled south, took the secrets of stonework and masonry from lesser hands and returned to the mountains in a mantle of gold and jewels and so in his radiance was named first emperor.

With that done he moves on to the next stage of investegation. How did their progressing work? Back in Genesis there were xp and levels and skill points. If this was real though, there was at least some chance that he could gain skills without killing creeps for XP. He asks for a big of room expansion from Castle, summons a climping wall and starts training a skill he had never bothered to put skills into: climb.

As you climb you do so with about as much success as any untrained human, not finding any natural ease other than that from being an untiring undead. By the time you are done you are no better at climbing

The Southern Simulacrum:
I rolled and got a teleport mishap and then 'Similar Area'.

Damage:
[roll0]

The Simulacrum is within an area of scrubland. In one direction are vast mountains ringed with woods, to the left of that are hills and rocks, with the smoke of a campfire a short ways off. In the other direction a pair of mountains, or rather volcanos were one judging by the plumes of smoke, stand as the land slowly turns to grasses.

Sønderjye

2018-03-15, 08:26 AM

ThreadNecro5

2018-03-16, 03:20 PM

The Unanswered Question

Chase listens to the information before giving simulacrum 1 and 3 instructions to scout the castle, including quizing the NPC's and report what differs from his memories of it. He then passes on the information from the divinations through his telepathy[can he talk to Jessie?]. "We might want to scout the mountains", she adds.

The Simicalua head off to scout.

"This is booring", Scourge complains. According to the fluff text his massive Intelligence were supposed to make him learn faster. It seemed like it weren't working though. He shakes his head, even with a massive intelligence it would take time to learn and it would be much easier if he wasn't trying to learn by himself. Wait..

He uses [Psychic Reformation] on his familiar to change it's skills around giving it Climb, Profession(teacher), Profession(Climbing Instructor) on rank 20. "Teach me", Scourge instructs Greater Footrest as she returns to the climbing wall.

Footrest begins spouting off vividly detailed instructions including notes of the types of rock, how weather can help and hinder climbing, and the use of tools to assist. In the end however your climbing never seems to quite make it into muscle memory, or whatever the undead have in its place. The mind understands but the body cannot follow.

Simulacrum 2
The simulacrum notes the mishap but pays it it no mind. Her regeneration will heal the damage and the purpose of the mission was just to explore. She casts invisibility and with her Mind Blank she feels reasonably confident of not being detected. She then moves towards the smoke.

After some traveling you reach the crude encampment. Walking past the three especially large and toothy orcs on guard and their guard animals that are mostly reminiscent of canines and toads, you enter the main settled area. The settlement is centred around a ring of greenish-yellow hide tents sitting a longer than necessary distance off from a large bonfire sat atop a solid stone ring functioning as a forge. Metal tools of all sorts are scattered around the stone structure. Beyond these are several wagons, also large, along with most things around here. oddly there are no draft animals to pull them.

There are a few more orcs around, of both the larger, toothy variety like the guards and the regular sort, as well as a lone human. Something unfamiliar but giant-sized, clawed, fanged, and resembling the orcs is aspect, is towing logs to the fire. What most of the people here are however, are trolls. About twentyish grown trolls pace around working and at the centre, over the fire, is the biggest and most scarred. She wears metal armour compared to the leathers of the trolls and furs used by the rest and is working the forge. There looks to be about thirty five members of this group were one discounting the young, mostly armed

Sønderjye

2018-03-17, 06:46 AM

The Unsolved Question

Scourge pouts: "No improvements in skills". She sighs and takes a deep breath. 'Counting that as a point for simulation'. "Under the simulation assumption we would be in some kind of expansion so you'd expect there were more to learn and under the dimension idea it just seems arbitrary that we'd be gated at this level. In either case I'd expect that there are room for us to grow and if natural learning is out then I guess the next most obvious is that we'll need to get XP"

"Would it be a bad idea to summon one of the great devils, like a Puragaus, and duel it? Wait, did we have any way of ressurecting folks without penalties?" She pauses as if he had a thought: "Wait, hang on to that idea", and with that she ports out. The climbing wall is still towering beside the table.

South Troll Camp

Simulacrum 2 relays the information to her supreme leader, Scourge, through the telepathic link and is instructed to listen in on conversations and learn more about the camp.

Does any of the knowledge skills give knowledge about how these guys work? Takin 10.
Also, would using Solid Shadows Shades(Planar Binding(Puragaus (https://www.d20pfsrd.com/bestiary/monster-listings/outsiders/devil/devil-immolation/))) and fighting the thing give XP if we were in the game? It's CR 19 which I think is an 'average' challenge for a single lvl 20 character although obviously different with tristalt. Maybe would be average if there was two/three of them?

drack

2018-03-17, 07:47 PM

He then passes on the information from the divinations through his telepathy[can he talk to Jessie?].
If it does work Jessie-Chris will pass back info on the world known as "Acid Trip" and that there exists a material plane equivalant, regardless of whether or not it's the same as where the castle is.

While the periodic portals prove too fleeting for you to reach before their chosen target passes through, by concentrating to can feel your way back to the plane your body (or rather, head) is on. The result resembles the classic 'hyperspace' image from one classic sci-fi or another as the plane seems to fold around you and you pop back into somewhere sane.

You appear at a rather mundane forest, well mundane bar the fact everything is half again as large as it should be.

I will make a note you can access the material plane equivalent and what for now is dub 'acid trip' until you find the real name for planar travel purposes.

"I expect to see an undead apocalypse within the week."

Jessie-Chris, meanwhile, is skipping through a forest wonderland. Or at least figuratively skipping. As his skull bobs up and down faintly he uses his telepathy to silently kill all the wildlife with skeletal systems that he can find in the woods for a few hours. Frogs, snakes, birds, all sorts of things with skeletons. As for things without skeletons like ants, crickets, and the like, he ignored them, after all, what he needed now was some power with which to fuel his grand plans, and a localized undead apocalypse seemed just the thing to do it. (demilich doesn't apply to those without skeletons) As he did so he hummed a simple little tune in his head.

One two, oh what a taboo!
Three four, what we abhor!
Five six, do it for kicks!
Seven eight, no way to negate!
Nine Ten, and we do it all again!

Within four or so minutes of dying, the corpses would shrivel and wither to dust with the exception of their skulls which would shift and transition as parts transfigure into gemstones. Something similar had happened to Scarlet not so long ago. Each one would radiate an aura of positive energy causing the forest life around them to flourish and bloom brilliantly. As he killed animals with skeletons he telepathically instructed them in performing some simple tests. After all, while Jessie-Chris was a mage and a sifter, the truth is that in the game he had almost exclusively used his racial abilities, and had expanded his understanding of them to a very profound level. As for the other abilities, they were mostly just used for surviving and running away!

First he tested to see if he and they can deactivate their positive energy auras. If not, he'll see if they can use bestow curse greater (at will) to curse each other into not having an aura, and to turn it back on. Next he'll see if one steals the soul of a blade of grass, if it can then pass the soul to him to digest. He'll see how versatile the semi-freeform spell bestow curse (greater) is in this world, if one can curse another too be too beautiful or too strong (+12 to an ability, inverse of the usual since the spell does say "or equivalent effect") He'll see if he can curse strange properties onto things such as cursing a blade of grass to reproduce via spores rather then through the usual means. While he's at it, he'll see if immunities can be lowered. (He is a shifter with immunity to polymorphing :smallwink:) Any uncontrolled demiliches (5-10%) will be soul-sucked by the masses giving them an easy death without sewing trouble. Scarlet will be... [roll0] easily controlled

After he's played around with and figured out how to tame his legion, he'll double back and towards the town. Using sculpt corpse he'll alter his temporary body into a small fairy with gem-like eyes, wings, and antennas before floating merrily into the town to find some sentient life to converse with and learn from.

Aleph Null

2018-03-19, 11:51 AM

The voice is on the deep side but unable to be defined as male or female. What can be said is it is inhuman and sounds like shattering glass, only deeper and merged with what is almost brass instruments.

It answers in turn. "No. No. No". Each answer the same.

Raziel ponders for a moment. This was certainly a "point" in favor of the alternate-dimension hypothesis. He then asks the question Scourge requested, being careful to phrase it as a yes-or-no question: "Do the gods of this universe gain their power through worship? Also, are the peoples of this area dangerous? Are they hostile or uncivilized?"
He figured he would ask these questions to be safe.

ThreadNecro5

2018-03-19, 07:31 PM

If it does work Jessie-Chris will pass back info on the world known as "Acid Trip" and that there exists a material plane equivalant, regardless of whether or not it's the same as where the castle is.

Can someone remind me what ability is being used to communicate here? It probably does not reach anyway but is worth checking.

Jessie-Chris, meanwhile, is skipping through a forest wonderland. Or at least figuratively skipping. As his skull bobs up and down faintly he uses his telepathy to silently kill all the wildlife with skeletal systems that he can find in the woods for a few hours. Frogs, snakes, birds, all sorts of things with skeletons. As for things without skeletons like ants, crickets, and the like, he ignored them, after all, what he needed now was some power with which to fuel his grand plans, and a localized undead apocalypse seemed just the thing to do it. (demilich doesn't apply to those without skeletons) As he did so he hummed a simple little tune in his head.

One two, oh what a taboo!
Three four, what we abhor!
Five six, do it for kicks!
Seven eight, no way to negate!
Nine Ten, and we do it all again!

Within four or so minutes of dying, the corpses would shrivel and wither to dust with the exception of their skulls which would shift and transition as parts transfigure into gemstones. Something similar had happened to Scarlet not so long ago. Each one would radiate an aura of positive energy causing the forest life around them to flourish and bloom brilliantly. As he killed animals with skeletons he telepathically instructed them in performing some simple tests. After all, while Jessie-Chris was a mage and a sifter, the truth is that in the game he had almost exclusively used his racial abilities, and had expanded his understanding of them to a very profound level. As for the other abilities, they were mostly just used for surviving and running away!

First he tested to see if he and they can deactivate their positive energy auras. If not, he'll see if they can use bestow curse greater (at will) to curse each other into not having an aura, and to turn it back on. Next he'll see if one steals the soul of a blade of grass, if it can then pass the soul to him to digest. He'll see how versatile the semi-freeform spell bestow curse (greater) is in this world, if one can curse another too be too beautiful or too strong (+12 to an ability, inverse of the usual since the spell does say "or equivalent effect") He'll see if he can curse strange properties onto things such as cursing a blade of grass to reproduce via spores rather then through the usual means. While he's at it, he'll see if immunities can be lowered. (He is a shifter with immunity to polymorphing :smallwink:) Any uncontrolled demiliches (5-10%) will be soul-sucked by the masses giving them an easy death without sewing trouble. Scarlet will be... [roll0] easily controlled

Honestly first thing I thought of reading this was the video Linked (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fcbazH6aE2g). On further reading, I am more and more correct.

Also remember you have the torpor to put up with in the spawn. Unless someone disturbs the spawn they will just sit there, even the uncontrolled ones.

Assume you may ignore your own immunities.

The spawn are immune to Devour Soul due to still being undead.

You get [roll0] spawn

The forest rapidly becomes home to a mass of glowing, screaming, animal skulls. The surrounding vegetation begins growing like wildfire, bursting from autumnal tones to the height of summer and growing ever larger.

As you practice your curses you find that you can indeed make creatures too beautiful, strong, and such. The beautiful spawn forces all living around it to gaze upon it, and many such viewers are stuck blind at the sight. The strong spawn meanwhile carves out the wood beneath the branch it appeared on when the wind picks, sending it tubing into the ground and forming a metre wide crater on impact.

You cannot however curse grass to reproduce with spores, and indeed grass has no soul to consume.

Some save for you to make. I'll put the values in and edit it in if you pass or fail. Both are DC 20.
Blinding: [roll1]
Fascination: [roll2]

After he's played around with and figured out how to tame his legion, he'll double back and towards the town. Using sculpt corpse he'll alter his temporary body into a small fairy with gem-like eyes, wings, and antennas before floating merrily into the town to find some sentient life to converse with and learn from.

Unfortunately sculpt corpse only works on dead creatures, not the undead

South Troll Camp
Simulacrum 2 relays the information to her supreme leader, Scourge, through the telepathic link and is instructed to listen in on conversations and learn more about the camp.

Inspection revels the tents around the fire are actually mostly storage and house the non-troll members of the community. A pair of young orcs and one troll stand around that ring near the one working the forge talking in giant. The one working the metal is instructing them on smithing while sometimes intoning a short prayer and having them repeat it. Intestinally the methods taught include some techniques that would be sued when crafting magic items despite none getting made, the present forging is just some chain.

Nearby a few children of various races are being taught by an orc how to handle a club and can be seen showing the children a fighting stance, mimicked sloppily. One troll child gets club to the head as they misbehave and strike another out of turn. It seems regeneration has quite an effect on a societies opinions of violence. The children run over to look at two trolls who have just entered camp, one drawing a wagon by hand. On it is a dead bear. They young ones look at them impressed.

In other areas there are signs of quiet desperation, especially near a group of trolls chewing on a handful of course boiled roots, who finish the meagre rations before looking out towards the volcanos. Rations are thin it seems. another troll turns to the first "Scout first. See omens. Then we cross. We still got roots to spare. Still have time." he says grimly.

Does any of the knowledge skills give knowledge about how these guys work? Takin 10.
Also, would using Solid Shadows Shades(Planar Binding(Puragaus (https://www.d20pfsrd.com/bestiary/monster-listings/outsiders/devil/devil-immolation/))) and fighting the thing give XP if we were in the game? It's CR 19 which I think is an 'average' challenge for a single lvl 20 character although obviously different with tristalt. Maybe would be average if there was two/three of them?
[/spoiler=OOC]Not sure what you mean by ' how these guys work' Society wise? Biology? Other?

As to how Genises EXP works the monster would give some.
As to mechanics wise EXP, an Immolation Devil is an average encounter for four LV 19 characters. Due to the big numbers in play here I'd eyeball it at two would be fair. The real question would be if the fight is a challenge, as that determines if you get any. Simply put it is a matter of effort and struggle on the characters part. Roughly crunching some numbers it takes two of them 34ish rounds to kill you. So it may actually be worth EXP. A lot of luck on the monsters parts and a few bad damage rolls on yours might see them win.

One thing I don't like the idea of is that this would open up the prospect of just siting in base level grinding, which I would like to avoid. On the other hand I see no real justification that 'training' would not grant EXP. Bit of a pickle really.

Raziel ponders for a moment. This was certainly a "point" in favor of the alternate-dimension hypothesis. He then asks the question Scourge requested, being careful to phrase it as a yes-or-no question: "Do the gods of this universe gain their power through worship?
"No".

Also, are the peoples of this area dangerous?
"Yes".

Are they hostile or uncivilized?"
He figured he would ask these questions to be safe.
Here you get a response that is quite a bit different.

"Complicated".

drack

2018-03-19, 08:27 PM

OOC

...it is a classic musical piece... :smallbiggrin:

Hrmn... controlled undeads are obedient, controlled intelligent undeads love you above everything else in the world and wish to please and serve you. I don't see what either of these have to do with a demilich's tendency to ignore intruders, particularly as there are neither intruders present, nor is there a place to perpendicularly intrude upon... :smalltongue: To use a less RAW definition of torpor, the one you love and wish to serve above all others would be considered a "treasure" of yours, thus siring them into action when I'm involved, wouldn't it?

Anything on deactivating positive energy aura?

Lets attempt the same experiment with a worm's soul instead of that of a blade of grass, seeing as plants seem to be soulless...

Probably best to beat them to death with telekinesis and let Jessie-Chris deliver the final blow. Undead lord should re-res any creature slain by him as a new one under his control, so lets see if they come back in 2d4 min under his control, or 2d6 days uncontrolled. Either way positive energy Apocalypse averted. Army's a bit smallish though...

Aye, glad ya got my back. Lets see, entering a town as a demilich sounds kinda... bad... Ah well, I've got nothing better, and feel like stealing the flesh from someone else's head won't improve the situation, so let's float in and see if I can find anyone for now. :smallsmile:

Edit: Actually let's use telepathic bond on subservient demiliches momentarily lowering their immunity and send one of those in and the rest to explore around the area.

Sønderjye

2018-03-20, 08:59 AM

Drack: natural telepathy was used. 100 ft. range.
TN5: That's fine. I guess we'll just pretend that Scourge didn't think about that possibility, maybe because the game designers of Genesis made it so you couldn't get XP from killing creeps you yourself somehow spawned?

Both society wise, biology, skills/traits, special qualities, everything.
Scourge didn't become any better at climbing even if he had a 'professional' trainer even with above average strength, incredible coordination and an inhuman ability to learn. Max ranks in knowledge thought haven't done anything and his 20 ranks in knowledge(planes) didn't even tell him what the Mortal Plane was. At the same time his disguise ranks and craft ranks are working(disguise for simulacrum and craft for item creation) which suggest that there are some value in high rank skills. Given that he currently is learning and remembering what he learns, his running theory is that high knowledge ranks lets him remember more information once learned which makes sense from the perspective that his knowledge of Genesis isn't relelvant to this new setting. If his knowledge skill provides him with any information that theory will have to be discarded.

One might also want to point out that Scarlet were killed by Jessie and that the guards sent are disturbing her remains.

The Unsolved Question

About 15 minutes after Scourge vanished he ports back into existence, looking... restless. Her long polish-looking-but-really-natural nails drums against the table and her gaze goes back up to the bar. With a frown she remembers that she can't get drunk. That was a problem that had to be solved at some other time. It wouldn't be worth a 8th lvl spell slot.
'There's a mixture of races, mostly orcs and trolls, milady', Simulacrum 2 calls telepathically to Scourge and Scourge detects.. shaking?.. in her mental voice. Strange, why would she be afraid? She didn't sound like she was in combat or anything.

'Camp technology is poor medieval. The camp includes women and children. Most of them are starving', It clicked then. It wasn't fear, it was anger. Scourge transfered his senses to the the Simulacrum and felt the same anger boiling to the surface. How could whatever had ported them here allow them to have this excess of litterally everything and have people just beside them starve. The magical food-production line was quite possibly the least powerful thing they had on their freaking floating castle.

Now. Now he needed that drink. Using Polymorph any object he changes himself into a Muse and orders the strongest drink they have.

"There's starving people nearby", he says to the group before downing the glass: "And they are going to get help"

South Troll Camp

Scourge isn't reached the first time the message is sent, or the second time. Simulacrum 2 starts worrying but she had been instructed to scout, not to look after Scourge and would only do so if she thought something had actually happened. Eventually she gets a responds and she can relay her intel. There's an uncomfortable long pause but then Scourge replies: 'We're going to help them', she sends and Simulacrum 2 feels warmth spreading throughout her chest, of course Scourge, the kindest being in existance, would do the right thing. Her mental voice was a little weird though, a little drawn out, and in a way that the Simulacrum couldn't quite place a finger on: 'Find out who their leader is and stalk him around to form an impression. If we offer free food they might reject it out of pride or suspicion or whatever trollish psychology that makes them think hitting people is acceptable. Further, find the fighter between them that are most powerful, I have an experiment to run. Recruiting them per say is probably pointless but we'll at least want the ability to influence them.'
Simulacrum 2 sends an 'understood' and moves on to fulfill her new task, the warmth still ingering.

Aleph Null

2018-03-20, 10:16 AM

Raziel certainly wasn't expecting the answer to his second question to be a "Yes," but he trusts that the answer is truthful. The third answer made it a bit more difficult to parse; however, when Scourge reappeared and mentioned the starving people, the situation became clearer.
"I thank you for your help. This has shed a fair bit of light on our situation." He terminates the spell.
He then turns to Scourge.
"It appears the power of the gods is intrinsic. And it also appears that this is not the world of Genesis, and that Earth is unknown to this world. Other than that, however, the most concerning information I have gotten is that there are dangerous peoples in this area, though the reason why is rather unclear. You say there is a lack of food and water? I wonder if there is some form of racial oppression occurring here."
Raziel unfurls his wings. The emotions on his face are a mixture of concern and anger, as he begins to apply his standard suite of buffs to himself.
"Should I go down and investigate? I wish to aid in any way that I can."

divine favor (CL 20th)
death ward (CL 20th)
nine lives (CL 20th)
source severance (against arcane, CL 20th)
spellbane (against spellbane, mage's disjunction, greater dispel magic, and antimagic field, CL 20th)

Sønderjye

2018-03-21, 06:33 AM

Scourge contemplates what Raziel were saying and then responds: "I wouldn't be so sure. If I remember correctly the fluff text for Commune was something like talking to your god. And if I were a god and someone asked me whether I had an obvious weak point I'd say no, especially if it had been reading my thou..." He curses and casts mind blank. How could he have been so dumb. They were in uncharted territory. He calms a little when he remembers that his levels in lich should give him immunity to mind-affecting effects. She shrugs and casts his usual daily buffs.

"Anyway, I think we should try getting worshippers anyway. If nothing else it'll be fun."

"Should I go down and investigate? I wish to aid in any way that I can."

"Sounds like a good idea. There's a slight problem though, there was a teleport mishap, so I don't actually know where my man, woman, on the group are. "

ThreadNecro5

2018-03-21, 09:00 PM

TN5: That's fine. I guess we'll just pretend that Scourge didn't think about that possibility, maybe because the game designers of Genesis made it so you couldn't get XP from killing creeps you yourself somehow spawned?

That would sound about right

Both society wise, biology, skills/traits, special qualities, everything.
In terms of biology Trolls are giants, with the same basic traits that typify them, generally humanoid anatomy with the addition of reinforced bones, more efficient muscle fibres, as well as more muscle in general (where in their biology these are however varies from type to type), as well as just a little inherent magic that both helps grow these bodies and fuels whatever magical abilities the type generates. As to trolls themselves they have strong jaws and their signature regeneration. What everyone knows about trolls is the need of acid or fire to kill one, barring suffocation, starvation, dehydration or magic what inflicts death directly rather than achieving it through a medium. While it is the inherent magic found within trolls that is the source of this regenerative ability the ability itself is purely physical and present from birth. This proves to be the great undoing of trolls however and means they require vast quantities of food to survive. Trolls are among the most variable of giants, their figures always feature long arms and short legs, but individuals vary from naturally tall and squat, skinny or pudgy, and wiry or muscular. Some have short tails, some have sparse fur over their hide, their faces are also variable, always tusked but long, blunt, thick, or thin, horned or not, are all seen. Typically they use their claws and teeth in a fight but may also use crude or improved weapons at times. A trolls claws are wickedly hooked at the tip and they can open a tear if the troll gets a grip. They use little if any protective gear and just basic clothing, leaving their natural durability to cover defence, but the regeneration and skin equivalent to armour means that can manage that. Another quirk of troll biology is a minor connection to nature-based magics granting them suburb adaptability that means they have sprouted a number of distinct subraces. This connection is especially strong towards elemental earth, and elder trolls have been known to form connections to both earth based magic and to similarly aligned creatures. In terms of lifespan they tend to live about 90-110 years.

Behaviourally trolls tend to be casual with violence and willing to take risks, but due to their regeneration they just have a different standard of what injury and risk is, as long as they do not drown or burn little they expect to find can hurt them. Similarly they are prone to pyrophobia even beyond the natural aversion hat would develop from their relation with flame. Most trolls are dim at best and stupid at worst, beyond naturally lower intelligence the have difficulty forming society due to their dietary needs, this forcing most to live alone and ill-educated with perhaps an extended family in the area. In groups trolls are often matriarchal and become nomadic by necessity. Trolls are, by nature or nurture, mostly evil. Trolls have a distinct aversion to cannibalism due to their alkali instead of acidic stomachs. When it does happen the mass of regenerating parts has a rist of fusing together into the immense and many headed Jotund trolls.

One might also want to point out that Scarlet were killed by Jessie and that the guards sent are disturbing her remains.
Meant to get around to that point last post.

South Troll Camp
Scourge isn't reached the first time the message is sent, or the second time. Simulacrum 2 starts worrying but she had been instructed to scout, not to look after Scourge and would only do so if she thought something had actually happened. Eventually she gets a responds and she can relay her intel. There's an uncomfortable long pause but then Scourge replies: 'We're going to help them', she sends and Simulacrum 2 feels warmth spreading throughout her chest, of course Scourge, the kindest being in existance, would do the right thing. Her mental voice was a little weird though, a little drawn out, and in a way that the Simulacrum couldn't quite place a finger on: 'Find out who their leader is and stalk him around to form an impression. If we offer free food they might reject it out of pride or suspicion or whatever trollish psychology that makes them think hitting people is acceptable. Further, find the fighter between them that are most powerful, I have an experiment to run. Recruiting them per say is probably pointless but we'll at least want the ability to influence them.'
Simulacrum 2 sends an 'understood' and moves on to fulfill her new task, the warmth still ingering.

Looking at all the signs it seems the woman at the forge is in charge, the central position in camp, the fact she wears the most expensive looking equipment and is acting in what seems to be a positon of authority lends support to this. No other figures seem to be possible candidates but looking around does let the Simulacrum find the two who look to be the greatest physical combatants. One is a troll who has a small cloak made of furs and a tattered banner of some sort stitched onto leather and who wars a few gold rings. He is seen talking to the two hunters seen dragging the wagon earlier. The other is either a short troll or an ugly orc with a battle-axe and is better dressed than most of the other troll residents, more like something you would find in a rural community. He is making his at towards the smith.

The smith stops mid-swing with her hammer to turn towards the newcomer "Ah, Goz, Heading out already?" she says to him.

"Hmm." replies the newcomer, Goz, apparently. "Yes, the sooner we find a good pass the sooner we are out of here. Stopping by for a blessing." he looks to the children watching "If that's no disruption of course".

"Ah, what firemaster would I be shirking in my duty. Here." she takes a step towards Goz and lays a hand on his chest before muttering a quick spell in ignan. "A bit of luck for these next hours. And take a hound with you".

"Heh, sure." says Goz as he leaves "Just have to duck right?" he ends laughing of the others concerns.

[QUOTE=drack;22931199]Hrmn... controlled undeads are obedient, controlled intelligent undeads love you above everything else in the world and wish to please and serve you. I don't see what either of these have to do with a demilich's tendency to ignore intruders, particularly as there are neither intruders present, nor is there a place to perpendicularly intrude upon... :smalltongue: To use a less RAW definition of torpor, the one you love and wish to serve above all others would be considered a "treasure" of yours, thus siring them into action when I'm involved, wouldn't it?
Eh, true enough I guess.

Anything on deactivating positive energy aura?
I keep looking for rules on thing like this but can never find them. There don't seem to be any specific rules for auras in and of themselves. I will rule this by that seem appropriate to the creature and in this case say no, the whole idea is the creature constantly and uncontrollably emitting this stuff.

Lets attempt the same experiment with a worm's soul instead of that of a blade of grass, seeing as plants seem to be soulless...
Souls cannot be traded between demiliches.

Aye, glad ya got my back. Lets see, entering a town as a demilich sounds kinda... bad... Ah well, I've got nothing better, and feel like stealing the flesh from someone else's head won't improve the situation, so let's float in and see if I can find anyone for now. :smallsmile:

Edit: Actually let's use telepathic bond on subservient demiliches momentarily lowering their immunity and send one of those in and the rest to explore around the area.

After flying around for a bit and terrorising small animals you hear the sound of chopping wood and that draws you to the top of a hill by the woodcutter. Down the hill the trees rapidly this out and is a clearing only a few minutes away is a hamlet with about eight buildings or so. The woodcutter is left staring at the spawn with the slight startled yet resigned eyes of one used to putting up with whatever has been spat out of the forest this time.

Back at Base:
A guard once again enters the room containing the members of the Blue Rose Society, if a different tone than last time. It salutes.

"Scouting has been completed." It turns to Scourge "Unfortunately all scouts have reported that the eyes you handed out vanished ways from base, We do not know if they were supposed to do that" The guard turns again to face the room.

"The nomadic tribe we encounters were confirmed to be composed of trolls. Primitive and no danger to the Society. The fliers seem to be gargoyles. They are operating from a fortified position up the mountain. It looks like a guard area over the land routes. Four of them. Likely pat of a larger organisation. Unlikely to pose a serious threat but they have a lot of unknown factors and will be difficult to move fro their position. The most dangerous creature around is the roc and it is unlikely to be an issue if we present it with food or it decides to land on the castle".

"The situation with Scarlet's remains has became an issue however. Reports are the skull has animated and partly crystallised. Until further orders are received those allocated have decided to form a secure perimeter".

drack

2018-03-22, 03:29 AM

I keep looking for rules on thing like this but can never find them. There don't seem to be any specific rules for auras in and of themselves. I will rule this by that seem appropriate to the creature and in this case say no, the whole idea is the creature constantly and uncontrollably emitting this stuff.
Hows about stoppering it with a good ol' curse? After all I'm not just trying to sew mayhem. :smalltongue:
Mostly trying to figure out a way not to have them all floating so far apart and exploding large swaths of land wherever they go.

Souls cannot be traded between demiliches.
How about soul gems? Likewise how about looting them from dead ones? In pf it seems soul gems aren't phylactery equivalents like 3.5, but a simple body part that regrows with the rest of their body when they return to life.

Might as well kill some more frogs, snake mice, ect with skeletal systems while the subservient demilich chats. Yeah, multitasking!
:smallbiggrin:

Hrmn, it's strange though, why did cursing the blade of grass to be able to reproduce via spores not work... *runs some more experiments into the bounds of bestowing curses.

After flying around for a bit and terrorising small animals you hear the sound of chopping wood and that draws you to the top of a hill by the woodcutter. Down the hill the trees rapidly this out and is a clearing only a few minutes away is a hamlet with about eight buildings or so. The woodcutter is left staring at the spawn with the slight startled yet resigned eyes of one used to putting up with whatever has been spat out of the forest this time.

The skull, shining with holy light, emanates an aura of life and vitality which sooth the woodcutter's sore muscles, and even regenerate the recently cut tree pieces nearby. Floating back into the air slightly as if to shine holy light on the woodcutter without making him explode on the spot, the skull begins to speak. "Hello, I am the wandering holy man named little squirrel. I'm afraid I've become lost in the woods and am suffering some memory damage from the influence of a powerful evil, might I inquire of where we are and what exists around us here?"
All true if they try sense motive... :smalltongue:

Eldest

2018-03-22, 11:48 AM

Jenna shrugs at the guard. She came back as a Demi-Lich. Ask her if she wants to be one or back to being human, respect her wishes, and then go back to standard procedure. I'm going to check on the gargoyles. Help the starving folk, don't interfere, and for god's sake no worshipers. She sighs, then goes invisible, teleporting out to see the gargoyle fort herself.

Invisible that cannot be detected by see invis, she gets a stealth check vs any odd perceptions, and her minimum roll is a 78. I'm pretty sure she can explore safely.

ThreadNecro5

2018-03-23, 02:52 PM

Hows about stoppering it with a good ol' curse? After all I'm not just trying to sew mayhem. :smalltongue:
Mostly trying to figure out a way not to have them all floating so far apart and exploding large swaths of land wherever they go.
That can work.

How about soul gems? Likewise how about looting them from dead ones? In pf it seems soul gems aren't phylactery equivalents like 3.5, but a simple body part that regrows with the rest of their body when they return to life.
You cannot transfer souls between them but there is a spell for that.
(https://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic/all-spells/s/soul-transfer/)

They can be looted and would regrow if raised. As for market price of a souls scroll down on this page. (https://www.d20pfsrd.com/bestiary/monster-listings/outsiders/daemons/)

Hrmn, it's strange though, why did cursing the blade of grass to be able to reproduce via spores not work... *runs some more experiments into the bounds of bestowing curses.
The limit I'm putting on curses is that the effect must be detrimental to the creature. Reproducing using spores is not but making something uncontrollably strong or (literally) blindly beautiful is.

The skull, shining with holy light, emanates an aura of life and vitality which sooth the woodcutter's sore muscles, and even regenerate the recently cut tree pieces nearby. Floating back into the air slightly as if to shine holy light on the woodcutter without making him explode on the spot, the skull begins to speak. "Hello, I am the wandering holy man named little squirrel. I'm afraid I've become lost in the woods and am suffering some memory damage from the influence of a powerful evil, might I inquire of where we are and what exists around us here?"
All true if they try sense motive... :smalltongue:

It is a moment before the human speaks.

"Um well, Back the way you were wal- er, floating was the borers of the Wildwood. This area of forest belongs to lord Haklang. You see the hamlet?" He gestures towards it "Beyond that we have old Borick's meadery. Closest town's a couple days away. If it's magery you need there is also the territory capital a couple weeks travel after that".

"Say, squirrel, what's your story anyway?" he says politely ignoring the fact he will have to cut his logs down again.

Jenna shrugs at the guard. She came back as a Demi-Lich. Ask her if she wants to be one or back to being human, respect her wishes, and then go back to standard procedure. I'm going to check on the gargoyles. Help the starving folk, don't interfere, and for god's sake no worshipers. She sighs, then goes invisible, teleporting out to see the gargoyle fort herself.

Invisible that cannot be detected by see invis, she gets a stealth check vs any odd perceptions, and her minimum roll is a 78. I'm pretty sure she can explore safely.

"I am informed she as been screaming incoherently since she awoke, seemingly unable to communicate." says the guard after orders are relayed.

The Mountains
You appear o target, ankle deep in snow and up the mountain. The cool wings and snowfall not yet a problem, A distant cloudbank marking home base.

The gargoyle structure is simple enough to find, adjacent to the narrow path and concealed as a pillar of rock. Made of brick and mortar it is a windowless tower whose roof is crowned by a central jutting structure combined with a chimney and several gargoyles, these of the decorative and inanimate sort.

Live gargoyles fly around the structure, two of them on patrol with presumably more inside. From what can be seen they are armed with spears.

Sønderjye

2018-03-24, 11:06 AM

Interesting stuff. Just to be sure we aren't speaking past each other. Knowledge worked when learning about troll society and biology but not about planes?
Spellcraft to identify the spell the firemaster cast: [roll0]

Flying Castle

"Unfortunately all scouts have reported that the eyes you handed out vanished ways from base, We do not know if they were supposed to do that"

Scourge studies the guard's face carefully to see how their reaction is while delivering the message. Killing the messenger was a classic fantasy trope after all.

...and for god's sake no worshipers

Scourge blinked in suprise at the chair Jenna had just been sitting in, baffled that one of his old friends would give him such a terse order without bothering to explain the rational. Then his suprise turned to a familiar anger, the same anger he had so often experienced when one of the higher-ups blatantly had told him to shut up and do as he were told. He had hated his job as a nurse, especially when people died due to it. He sits subdued for a while before a decision appears in his mind. "F*** Jenna. I want worshippers."

"I am informed she as been screaming incoherently since she awoke, seemingly unable to communicate."

Scourge sighs. With Raziel heading out in a few and two members gone it was probably fall on him. "I'll clean up the mess", and with that she gets up and starts walking towards Scarlet.

Once she reach Scarlet open a portal and snatch a falling greatsword before entering the room. "Scarlet? Are you ehm OK?". Honestly though she is sorta hoping diplomacy would fail.

Troll Camp

Not satisfied with her rate of fulfilling her objectives the Simulacrum turns to magic for help. She casts Seek Thoughts to learn about their religion and afterlife. This might require switching to normal stealth rather than invisible stealth.

drack

2018-03-24, 03:04 PM

OOC

Can curses be canceled out with an opposite curse? Too beautiful/too ugly for example.

Can curses be dismissed by the caster?

Spores: Disadvantages and advantages to all, but I think I get what ya mean. Phrase it like a proper curse if nothing else.

Regrowing limbs means more total wood, it's only more work if he's trying to trim or remove the trees. :smalltongue:

While this demilich chats with the woodcutter, I'll send another off to town. Lets see if we can curse this one to appear average, normal, and commonplace without any of the normal grandeur and brilliance with which a demilich ought to appear. Appearing as a similar race to any looking upon it (different from different people's viewpoint) leading it to look all the more abysmally not special.

"My story? I am a traveler who ventures from place to place sometimes healing woes, often just passing on. Upon gaining enlightenment I finally shed my former form and became the holy spirit I am now... Tell me, what do you know of the surrounding area and culture in these lands? As a foreigner I fear I'm not so well versed in these things..."

ThreadNecro5

2018-03-26, 06:45 PM

A Sending:
Hatsuyuki receives the following message

"Do you know what is going on? Could you describe where you are for teleport? Your base moves so that is best meet to talk." You are aware that the message came from Pyrom Aniac of the Humane Authority on Researching Magic. You know may send back a response should you wish.

Interesting stuff. Just to be sure we aren't speaking past each other. Knowledge worked when learning about troll society and biology but not about planes?
Spellcraft to identify the spell the firemaster cast: [roll0]

The information you got is accurate to and about trolls in Genesis. weather this is accurate to the trolls in this world is unknown. Similarly the knowledge of planes does not work as you do not know anything about these planes, you could use Knowledge (Planes) to get information on the Planes from Genesis and very general information of planes in general, but this worlds planes are different ones so the skill wont work at it's best until you can do some research(e.g. suitable books and a few hours researching). In the same way were you to use the skill on a monster native to this world but not Genesis knowledge would be of little (but not no) use until you can research is, because Scourge doe snot know what it is.

The spell is Lucky Number (www.d20pfsrd.com/magic/all-spells/l/lucky-number/).

Example with skills, this spellcraft roll got the information because it was a spell form Genesis. Were it not you couldn't get an accurate result, maybe tell what school it was and like information, but not get exact details like you could here.

[B]Flying Castle
Scourge studies the guard's face carefully to see how their reaction is while delivering the message. Killing the messenger was a classic fantasy trope after all.

The guard's reaction was generally calm and were there a word to be associated with it would be 'dutiful', the guard behaving as it does out of loyalty.

Scourge sighs. With Raziel heading out in a few and two members gone it was probably fall on him. "I'll clean up the mess", and with that she gets up and starts walking towards Scarlet.

Once she reach Scarlet open a portal and snatch a falling greatsword before entering the room. "Scarlet? Are you ehm OK?". Honestly though she is sorta hoping diplomacy would fail.

The luminescent skull sits in a pile of dust, the pained screaming filling the room.

It does not respond.

Troll Camp
Not satisfied with her rate of fulfilling her objectives the Simulacrum turns to magic for help. She casts Seek Thoughts to learn about their religion and afterlife. This might require switching to normal stealth rather than invisible stealth.

From what you can gather on their pantheon the most common name thrown around is Gedjoena, a goddess who appears to be patron to trollkind as well of metalwork and healing. The one identified as 'firemaster' is dedicated to her specifically. The one they hail as their creator is known as Jotnuss, a god of all giants and elemental earth, who is father of Gedjoena as well as to a travel goddess named Neyja. Neyja herself is wed to a god of war and death named Rugdos, and is mother to Oara and Ennos the twin deities of offence and defence. Yolt’zin is also a name that is thrown around a couple times, often mournfully and mostly my those discussing the food shortage. What this Yolt’zin is a god of however remains unsaid. Another death god named Angraht is mentioned when on the topic of afterlife beliefs but does not appear to be worshiped so much as is an entity that is.

As for the afterlife beliefs, the oldest and dying members of the tribe travel to northerly mountains whose caves are an ancient funerary ground said to be the birthplace of trolls. As to the soul it travels through the Void Between and the worthy are claimed and the rest drift. From there weary souls drift to the realm of Angraht while the rest sink to The Battlefield of Rugdos, into the Necropolis.

"My story? I am a traveler who ventures from place to place sometimes healing woes, often just passing on. Upon gaining enlightenment I finally shed my former form and became the holy spirit I am now... Tell me, what do you know of the surrounding area and culture in these lands? As a foreigner I fear I'm not so well versed in these things..."
"Well good sir, you're in Duesea but you probably passed through on the wa-" The woodcutter's eyes light up as he recalls something "Wait, passed so deep into one forest you came out another did you? Heard a few old stories of that. Anyway, Were just normal around here, we work, we drink, we fight, you know, all the usual. But the area is dangerous, make no mistake. Fey, wolves, bears, elves, goblins, all the usual with some extra. The swamp northeast also has a few wild hydras we should probably have someone clear out".

While this demilich chats with the woodcutter, I'll send another off to town. Lets see if we can curse this one to appear average, normal, and commonplace without any of the normal grandeur and brilliance with which a demilich ought to appear. Appearing as a similar race to any looking upon it (different from different people's viewpoint) leading it to look all the more abysmally not special.
That Curse is fine. The 'perfect averageness' will function similarly to an Aversion (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic/all-spells/a/aversion/) spell. The demilich is so utterly average people need to psychologically force themselves to take note or interact with them. The ability to appear as a member of the viewers race would be an illusion.

The disguised spawn enters the hamlet to no fanfare. At the centre of things is the tavern. Positioned nearby is a fenced off circle showing marks of an old fire. Around those two structures that form the central area are five houses and warehouse whose lower floor was made of stone, as was the biggest house. A little farther out of the hamlet is a sawmill. Interestingly the paths of he hamlet are built double-wide and the roofs are high on half the buildings, at least on the ground floor. To go with this those buildings have an extra large door.

A few people can be seen working around the sawmill while the tavern is experiencing some business as a trio of heavily armed customers who just entered.

Can curses be canceled out with an opposite curse? Too beautiful/too ugly for example.
I'll allow it.

Can curses be dismissed by the caster?
No, Not without other magic.

drack

2018-03-26, 07:33 PM

"Well good sir, you're in Duesea but you probably passed through on the wa-" The woodcutter's eyes light up as he recalls something "Wait, passed so deep into one forest you came out another did you? Heard a few old stories of that. Anyway, Were just normal around here, we work, we drink, we fight, you know, all the usual. But the area is dangerous, make no mistake. Fey, wolves, bears, elves, goblins, all the usual with some extra. The swamp northeast also has a few wild hydras we should probably have someone clear out".

That Curse is fine. The 'perfect averageness' will function similarly to an Aversion (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic/all-spells/a/aversion/) spell. The demilich is so utterly average people need to psychologically force themselves to take note or interact with them. The ability to appear as a member of the viewers race would be an illusion.

The disguised spawn enters the hamlet to no fanfare. At the centre of things is the tavern. Positioned nearby is a fenced off circle showing marks of an old fire. Around those two structures that form the central area are five houses and warehouse whose lower floor was made of stone, as was the biggest house. A little farther out of the hamlet is a sawmill. Interestingly the paths of he hamlet are built double-wide and the roofs are high on half the buildings, at least on the ground floor. To go with this those buildings have an extra large door.

A few people can be seen working around the sawmill while the tavern is experiencing some business as a trio of heavily armed customers who just entered.

I'll allow it.

No, Not without other magic.

OOC

Lets test if Telekinetic Storm can exclude more then just the ability user.

Lets test if ten demilich cast a curse together if it becomes stronger, or if they just harmlessly overlap.

Lets try devouring the souls of plants until we have some idea of what does and doesn't possess a soul.

Thinking momentarily of all the Mr. bears and Mr. wolves who've recently joined a nameless collection of floating skulls in the woods, little squirrel finds himself slightly frightened by the power of his own group and backing, but his inherent immunity to fear swiftly washes these thoughts away. "Fey, elves, goblins? Tell me more, where are they? Also... you guys are strong enough to casually depose of a growing hydra population?"

Demilich average will follow them into the bar, presently cursed to have no positive energy aura. Demilich average will stealthily listen in. :smallbiggrin:

Sending demilich scout to check out the hydras and report back. Demilich will be named Big Bear, will be speaking to them to see if they can communicate, and will be in charge of taking a head count and approximate distance..

Sønderjye

2018-03-28, 10:10 AM

Base

'Yes, good. Leave two men with each group and learn more. Focus on afterlife, religion and otherwise only broader strokes', he instructs before returning to the matter of Scarlet.

He looks at her with conflicting feelings. He didn't really want to beat anybody up, let alone make anybody hurt but Jes had put him in an awkward situation. He couldn't let a sentient powerful undead roam freely inside their base without a tight leash, and at will telekinesis andundead immunities combined with that bull**** spell immunity meant that it was practically impossible to contain her.

"We'll ress you afterwards, k?", Scourge says with an apologetic look before he let the hammer fall, or well, the rather the +1 Vorpal Greatsword anyway.

Atk1: [roll0] | dmg [roll1]
Atk2: [roll2] | dmg [roll3]
Atk3: [roll4] | dmg [roll5]

Ole' Trolle Village

'I swear, there's going to be a billion gods in this world', Simulacrum 2 silently complains to herself.

After relaying the new intel the simulacrum continues scanning for knowledge of the afterlife and gods. Creational myth are of some interest.

To the realms of the gods

Based on the troll-bound simulacrums intel a band of 4 from Scourge's Army uses plane shift to enter the realm of Angraht.

ThreadNecro5

2018-03-28, 07:21 PM

Lets test if Telekinetic Storm can exclude more then just the ability user.
No.

Lets test if ten demilich cast a curse together if it becomes stronger, or if they just harmlessly overlap.
Just overlap to no greater effect.

Lets try devouring the souls of plants until we have some idea of what does and doesn't possess a soul.
No souls on plants, at least those without stats, same with fungi. Insects and other animals do.

Thinking momentarily of all the Mr. bears and Mr. wolves who've recently joined a nameless collection of floating skulls in the woods, little squirrel finds himself slightly frightened by the power of his own group and backing, but his inherent immunity to fear swiftly washes these thoughts away. "Fey, elves, goblins? Tell me more, where are they? Also... you guys are strong enough to casually depose of a growing hydra population?"

The woodcutter laughs and uses his axe to gesture to the forest. "Where aren't they. They're creatures of these woods. We'll be hiring wandering mercenaries for most of these issues, maybe send for a professional wrangler for the hydras. Admittedly we have little to pay for a job that big but the eggs sell for a lot so that'll sweeten things for that. Tame hydras are popular with the rich." he shrugs "They're symbolic I suppose".

Demilich average will follow them into the bar, presently cursed to have no positive energy aura. Demilich average will stealthily listen in. :smallbiggrin:

There are three customers to the tavern. Once human in steel lamellar with the ole' swond'n'board, an ifrit in chain armed with a spear, and an orc in a chain shirt and hide with a bow. The ifrit splits from the group to check a board with a couple notes pinned to it. The other two find a table and sit.

The young woman at the bar smiles as she sees the human "Karl! Two weeks Already? Perfect timing" she gestures towards the boards as she start poring drinks "The usual"?

"You got it cous." he replies "What needs done this time"?
"The meadery's got a goblin problem, they're running off with the mead in the middle of the night.
"Stealing alcohol? Now its personal." jokes the ifrit.
"it's five hundred for fixing the problem." adds the orc, wandering over with a piece of paper. The other two continue to discuss things and local happens for a bit as they drink.

"So I take it father's out?" says Karl.
"out for the shipment, assuming it's still there." says the barkeep.

[QUOTE=drack;22948528]Sending demilich scout to check out the hydras and report back. Demilich will be named Big Bear, will be speaking to them to see if they can communicate, and will be in charge of taking a head count and approximate distance.
The hydras are in a swampy area that begins twenty-ish miles from the hamlet, a days travel with time to camp. The head count is about twenty six, five of them around the area. A couple lurk around mounds of mud and sticks sitting half in the water.

The hydras most certainly do not talk and are more inquisitive about the spawn than anything else, not looks to be worth eating even if they do nibble using a sacrificial head to check.

Base
'Yes, good. Leave two men with each group and learn more. Focus on afterlife, religion and otherwise only broader strokes', he instructs before returning to the matter of Scarlet.

He looks at her with conflicting feelings. He didn't really want to beat anybody up, let alone make anybody hurt but Jes had put him in an awkward situation. He couldn't let a sentient powerful undead roam freely inside their base without a tight leash, and at will telekinesis andundead immunities combined with that bull**** spell immunity meant that it was practically impossible to contain her.

"We'll ress you afterwards, k?", Scourge says with an apologetic look before he let the hammer fall, or well, the rather the +1 Vorpal Greatsword anyway.

Atk1: [roll0] | dmg [roll1]
Atk2: [roll2] | dmg [roll3]
Atk3: [roll4] | dmg [roll5]

The screaming skull begins to rise even a it's light begins to burn you.

Winds pick up around Scarlet picking up a pile of dust and bones, alongside anything else in the area.

Roll initiative. You hit twice.

Scarlet's Initiative: [roll0]

You take [roll1] Positive Energy Damage.

Scarlet activates Telekinetic Storm: [roll2]

Take a DC 20 REF Save for half damage from the Telekinetic Storm

Ole' Trolle Village

'I swear, there's going to be a billion gods in this world', Simulacrum 2 silently complains to herself.

After relaying the new intel the simulacrum continues scanning for knowledge of the afterlife and gods. Creational myth are of some interest.

According the creation myth, the trolls, at least by their own word, were the first race. Not the first race made by their god, but the first mortals anywhere. It was a period of peace after the war between the gods and so Jotnuss chose a piece of untouched land and a mountain at the centre of it. Within a cave in that mountain Jotnuss, being a god of earth and so using what came natural, gave life to the rock. Those rocks became the first trolls, thousands of them. Creating life however was not something that came natural to Jotnuss and his first effort was poor, the trolls by their own admission were made poorly, their apatite bottomless and their minds dull as the stone of their birth. Jotnuss, his servants, and his many children, offered assistance to the first people but their efforts were limited. For with each boon given and not earned the feral Grathngur would create an equal bane, for such was his nature, and by his decree life must struggle. From there the trolls just lived there lives, the annual famine forcing them into a war of survival with their sibling-peoples as Jotnuss refined his methods and made other races.

As far as notes on the afterlife few more is thought about. It seems that the gods can claim any soul that draws their eye worshiper or not, a can soul-hungry predators. To this end Rugdos created a race of servants to watch over the dead as they make their way, the Valkyries and Vordr, as the distinct female and male are refed too. Souls can also struggle their way back to the world forming native outsiders, especially Evil ones. Creature called the Returned are spoken of seeming like Genissis's Oni.

In case you wander what a Vorder is check Wikipedia (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vörðr). That is the inspiration.

To the realms of the gods

Based on the troll-bound simulacrums intel a band of 4 from Scourge's Army uses plane shift to enter the realm of Angraht.

You enter the Mausoleum.

It is a desert of grayish sand that stretches in all directions. A twilight sun lights the plane from the horizon to illuminate the gritty rain from a cloudless sky. Everything feels heavy, as if you have suddeny suffeed from old age. A fey drifts of sand move here and there.

A short distance away is a black stone building, dunes starting to pile up next to it.

Gravity:
Heavy
Time:
Timeless
Shape and Size:
Infinite
Morphic:
Divinely Morphic
Elemental and Energy Traits:
Earth
Alignment Traits:
Strong-Law, Strong-Good
Magic Traits:
Enhanced Magic: Spells and spell-like abilities with the lawful or good descriptor are enhanced.
Impeded Magic: Spells and spell-like abilities with the chaotic or evil descriptor are impeded.

Sønderjye

2018-03-29, 01:52 PM

Aleph Null

2018-03-29, 08:53 PM

Raziel asks the guard the location of the troll camp, before heading out of the Unanswered Question with spread wings.
Solars are fast. Quickling solars are even faster. Raziel takes off quickly, and flies at blinding speed toward the troll camp (assuming the guard told him the location).
Presumably the guard could give me a good enough description that I could head there rather easily.

ThreadNecro5

2018-03-30, 04:36 PM

Floating Castle

"AW! Aw. That hurt like a ...", Scourge flinches back as the telekinetic storm hits right through her damage reduction. Those ****ers, they had implemented a pain function. He is seriuosly tempted to giving up and calling in the cavalry but stops the thought flat in it's track. Whereever they were he would need to experience pain again. He grit his teeth and plummeled another barrage of greatswords-to-the-face.

You manage three good hits against Scarlet opens her mouth and moans.

Is telekinetic storm reduced by Damage Reduction?
Yes, It would be bludgeoning if that is important.

All attacks hit

Positive energy damage: [roll0]

Take another save for the telekinetic storm. DC20
Damage: [roll1]

Scarlet uses Greater Bestow Curse. Take a DC21 Will save.
On failure you at cursed with -12 Wisdom.

Mausoleum

The small group visibly relaxes as nothing attacks them immediately on arrival. They take a moment to notice their surroundings before floating towards the stone building, doing their damptest to stay hidden.

The building is about ten foot high and after the area for the entranceway slops up to a pyramidal structure. As you near you can see others in the distance. The stone is obsidian black and the only entrance are a pair of heavy stone doors inlaid with a symbol in gold; an eye within a triangle topped by an unknown rune.

You appear to be unnoticed.

Raziel asks the guard the location of the troll camp, before heading out of the Unanswered Question with spread wings.
Solars are fast. Quickling solars are even faster. Raziel takes off quickly, and flies at blinding speed toward the troll camp (assuming the guard told him the location).
Presumably the guard could give me a good enough description that I could head there rather easily.

Traveling a mile a minute (and indeed slightly faster) you arrive quickly, if longer than most would think as by then the sun is near to be reaching its zenith.

You spot a few other trines as you streak through the air until arriving at your destination. The tribe has changed little although the firemaster's lesion seems to have finished and the heat of the forge is occupied with a cauldron as the trolls turn what they've been able to forage or hunt for into a meal. Another troll and an orc wok at a table they wheeled out with a pair of bowls and a pile of large bones, the marrow going into one bowl and, using a stone, the remaining bone is turned into powder in the other.

It is a moment before the trolls react to your appearance as their guard animals begin bellowing. You have the fist move in whatever is going to play out.

drack

2018-03-31, 05:20 AM

Sønderjye

2018-04-01, 01:17 AM

The Epic Battle of History

Scourge groans in pain. Did it really have to be this way? Couldn't being undead come with a perk of not feeling pain?

"Increase pain tolerance" she mumbles as she takes another swing. "Lower pain sensitivity". Another swing. "Increase numbness". Another swing.

HP: 821/853
Ref to halve storm [roll0]
Will against curse [roll1]

Attack 1 [roll2] [roll3]
Attack 2 [roll4] [roll5]
Attack 3 [roll6] [roll7]

Ye Ole' Trolle' Camp

The Simulacrum notes Raziel's arrival but stays in hiding.

Mausoleum

The group circles the building while examining it with their Arcane Sight. They then checks out a few other buildings, not wanting to disturb anything as of yet.

Sønderjye

2018-04-01, 01:30 AM

Spellcraft [roll0]

ThreadNecro5

2018-04-02, 02:35 PM

The skull politely bids farewell to the woodsman before floating off once more. "Well, I ought to get back to wandering in the woods. Safe travels to you." Doesn't matter much if he does remember, but lets also curse him to forget the events that transpired since before he chopped that last branch off. :smallsmile:[/spoiler]

The woodsman looks confused for a moment once you are out of sight before shrugging and getting back to logging.

(animals all have stats, same for insects, thouhg generally only in higher numbers. We have hardness/AC for trees and plants from material listings for dungeons and can use our basic biological know-how to know that, for instance, skinning some (a few square inches) bark off a tree will cause it to slowly bleed to death over a few years, and that this process is hastened by taking more. Likewise chopping clean through it will cause death faster still. :smalltongue: For non-stated animals you're generally encouraged to use a similar animal's stat block. Dove->raven, squirrel->rat, GM's judgement call on what matches with what. Gonna assume still no souls though...
I explained this one badly and have also since had a thought that changes my ideas here,. To reorganise my thoughts here Creatures with souls can, barring some exceptions, be considered those that are 'animate' generally this means something with a full bestiary write up (what I originally meant by stats) but can also qualify things that are represented as traps and such e.g. were there say a plant that was a vine that would grab nearby creatures but not otherwise act, it would be closer to a trap than anything but I'd class it as having a soul while (barring magical exceptions) grass or moss does not. To elaborate on the exceptions to this rough 'rule' most constructs have no soul despite being 'animate' while the mould that creates vegipigmies I would rule does have a soul.

Furthermore, let's examine if there's any damage to one's treasures which are involved in a telekinetic storm. After all, one wouldn't be left with much wealth once one's gold and gems are ground to dust and left afterwards for several eons to blow away in the wind or the like. :smalleek:
I think the best idea here is to say it does not cause damage to the objects. As some mechanical support for this the treasure for a demilich is listed as double, so any damage is minimal enough that the average demilich has a nice pile of loot when dealt with.

Expanding upon this premise, let's run a self contained experiment with Mrs. Rabbit and the various Mr. and Miss Rabbit Jr.s who treasure each other very much. When they thus activate their telekinetic storm abilities in the vicinity of each other, causing each other to whirl about in a frenzy of death, do they themselves suffer damages?
I'd rule that creatures cannot become part of a Telekinetic Storm. That way lies demilich katamari.

Hrmn... I understand them... then again with my linguistics ranks I understand just about any language I hear or see. What's this language?
I'm missing some context for the question. If you mead what everyone in the hamlet thus far has been using it is common.

Bringing ten or so demiliches with him, he averagifies (and suppresses positive energy aura on) the rest and sends them to scope out the surrounding area, growing their perimeter as they move out. Should they find non-sentient life with a skeletal system, they'll averagitize them, and telekinetically subdue and carry them back to Jessie-Chris to demilichitize. Hydra eggs will be taken, and one will be sold by an averageitized demilich for native currency. Is it the same as the game currency?

By the time all is said and done you have a number of extra spawn, which prove useful when transporting the eggs without hands. In any case by jaw and telekinesis you get a pile of eggs only to find the hamlet has nowhere to sell them.

Hydra eggs prove to be moist leathery orbs slightly larger than a grown man's fist reminiscent to a mermaid's purse.

New Spawn:[roll0]

Hydra Eggs:[roll1]

In case the term mermaids purse is a British-ism that is unknown is other regions I'm talking about these (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Egg_case_(Chondrichthyes)).

Shortly thereafter, in a swampy woodland, ten demiliches flew through the air, paralyzing hydras with dark curses as they went, circling to make sure none can escape. The eleventh however, stops as it passes, tormenting the entrapped hydras with various experimental methods and means.

Lets also look for a swarm of critters with skeletons like a rat swarm and try demilichifying that.

Lets try cursing them to be subject to status effects. "I curse you to be ever nauseous." "I curse you to be forever unable to move from this spot." "I curse you to be stunned for half a minute." "I curse you to fall to the ground and be unable to get back up." "I curse you to grow old and feeble."

Lets try soul-sucking a head, do the heads have individual souls, or just one between them, or perhaps none at all?
Jessie-Chris will kill a hydra with telekinisis. Does it form into one new demilich, or one per head?
If the latter, lets try ripping a head off with telekinisis. If it doesn't work Jessie-Chris will shapshift into something with pointy claws and slash a head off. Could it be he's found the solution for his lack of demilichable heads?
Lets also see if the soul sucked hydra reses as a demilich (or multiple demiliches as the case may be.) thus generating a new soul, and/or reanimating without a soul.

Despite looking no suitable swarm of creatures can be found. This does not hamper your experimentation however.

Hydras have one soul no matter total heads. You get just one spawn per hydra, favouring the 'core' head for transformation. Severing a head does not trigger a spawn to form.

Getting a spawn from a soulless hydra creates a new soul for the spawn.

Permeant nausea works, as does aging and becoming unable to stand.

Rooting a creature to the spot seems too strong for the spell (Comparing that binding is a higher level spell).

Stunned for half a minute I'd say does not work, curses are to be more of a constant thing in my opinion.

The averageified demilich goes over to look over the board for itself.
One of the notes on the board has been removed by the orc.

The other hand written note reads the following:
Hydra Slaying
The peepols of Northhew do promace that any whom does provide evidence of the slaying of five (5) adult hydras shall be rewarded with two-thousand (2000) hold in mixed coinage. The beests hathe roamed the area for some time and may became a danger and hamper local fishing efforts.

Directions to the hydras may be provided on request. As evidense of death provide the bones at the base neck to the tavern.

Should hydra numbers exeed indicated numbers additional payment may be negotiated. Beyond proof of death the slayer holds all rights towards the remainder of the boddies as well as towards nesting sites and items collected within the beat's layr

The other in-town averageified demilich will look for a map for sale.
Despite searching no shop of any kind is native to the hamlet.

The Epic Battle of History

Scourge groans in pain. Did it really have to be this way? Couldn't being undead come with a perk of not feeling pain?

"Increase pain tolerance" she mumbles as she takes another swing. "Lower pain sensitivity". Another swing. "Increase numbness". Another swing.

HP: 821/853
Ref to halve storm [roll0]
Will against curse [roll1]

Attack 1 [roll2] [roll3]
Attack 2 [roll4] [roll5]
Attack 3 [roll6] [roll7]

Scarlet acts the same as before, even as your swings shatter an eye socket.

You hit twice.

Positive Energy Damage: [roll0]
Telekinetic Storm: [roll1]
DC20 Reflex save to avoid.

DC 21 Will save to avoid Greater Bestow Curse (-12 Wis)

Mausoleum

The group circles the building while examining it with their Arcane Sight. They then checks out a few other buildings, not wanting to disturb anything as of yet.

You see that the whole environment, the entire plane has an overwhelming aura, everything from the sand to the air. Not only that but you see motes of magic drifting from where it emanates and away.

The second building you examine is bout the same as the first, if wider in construction. The third is actually incomplete as you near, a shrouded humanoid creature working away at it, drawing materials from the sands themselves. The figure has spell-like abilities, with the strongest being fifth level.

drack

2018-04-02, 08:06 PM

OOC
Demilich katamari doesn't sound like too bad of a thing does it? :smallbiggrin:

Plus, haven't we already established demiliches can be treasure? :smalltongue: (I confess, swinging demiliches was never meant as my main way of killing sutffs, just continuing to pick and prod.)

IC IRL common, or in game common?

Heh, soul generation you say? So since I spawn them off killing creatures, if I were to, hypothetically, kill hydra heads reanimated via animate dead... Hrmnnn... I'll keep one of the hydras alive.

You said only 2? Flier asks for 5, so presumably there'd be more... Shame that bone disintegrates into dust when I kill them
^_^

Lets send the honor guard to circle and search for a few more. [roll0] perception from them.

No rat swarms or the like in a swamp? Someone's not searching hard enough. [roll1]

Demilich average #2 will ask around about other towns.

Demilich average #1 will take the flier and approach the adventurers, asking them how to claim the reward and what happens if the bone is destroyed in the attempt.

Having moderately depleted the population of wild animals in the surrounding forests, Jessie-Chris goes with another group of demiliches towards the goblins that someone else conveniently scouted out for him ahead of time. Again checking for sentience the same way.

Sønderjye

2018-04-03, 04:36 PM

Epic Battle

"Aw!" Scourge's melodic voice makes the exclamation sound more like a song than an outcry, as she flinches back after some of her skin being peeled away by the intense storm. Someone were going to pay for this. At least Scarlet were standing still while Scourge were chopping her remains down.

Simultaneously the reports from the scouting teams were chiming in and Scourge found it suprisingly easy to pay attention to the words even despite the pain and activity. Increased mental stats probably. Yet another consern though, how much of him were staying him?

'Leave a few people in each settlement and search for knowledge on religion, souls, afterlife, gods as well as recent major events or threats,' she send telepathically as she swung her sword in a wide arch aiming for the skull: 'Have someone compile it and give me a sumary when complete.'

Did any of the command affect how intense the pain is? If not he'll try a few some more
HP:

Ref: [roll0]
Will: [roll1]

Attack 1: [roll2] [roll3]
Attack 2: [roll4] [roll5]
Attack 3: [roll6] [roll7]

Mausoleum

"Excuse me?", one of the scouts says while the rest stays hidden. The young woman looks like a mixture of sweet innocence and a fierce warrior: "What is this place?"

ThreadNecro5

2018-04-04, 05:42 PM

Demilich katamari doesn't sound like too bad of a thing does it? :smallbiggrin:

Plus, haven't we already established demiliches can be treasure? :smalltongue: (I confess, swinging demiliches was never meant as my main way of killing sutffs, just continuing to pick and prod.)
No making a Telekinetic Storm from creatures.

IC IRL common, or in game common?
In game common.

Heh, soul generation you say? So since I spawn them off killing creatures, if I were to, hypothetically, kill hydra heads reanimated via animate dead... Hrmnnn... I'll keep one of the hydras alive.
What have I unleashed...

You said only 2? Flier asks for 5, so presumably there'd be more... Shame that bone disintegrates into dust when I kill them
That was not counting the hydras, the two were random forest animals. So seven new total.

No rat swarms or the like in a swamp? Someone's not searching hard enough. [roll1]
Not in the density to be a swarm, no. What rats you find are individuals or in smaller groups.

Demilich average #2 will ask around about other towns.
After a while you manage to get a conversation together for long enough to get directions to a couple nearby settlements like this one and a nearby town
Don't have the time to have someone talk, it's too late for me here and I've something to do.

Demilich average #1 will take the flier and approach the adventurers, asking them how to claim the reward and what happens if the bone is destroyed in the attempt.

You go ignored for a time until the ifrit notices you. "Find something of equivalent value for proof I guess, normally they'd just ask for heads for stuff like this but, well, hydras. They make it tricky. You'd have to talk wi- wi..." He returns to his drink as you sink beneath notice.

As you get his attention back he responds "Uh? Oh hello again. If you get a problem with a bounty you'd need to ask whoever post it, just check who'd be paying and go to them".

"Now I think on it You're new here ri..." He takes a drink of his mead.

Having moderately depleted the population of wild animals in the surrounding forests, Jessie-Chris goes with another group of demiliches towards the goblins that someone else conveniently scouted out for him ahead of time. Again checking for sentience the same way.

How hid you find the location? Use a spawn to read the paper that was taken or something?

Epic Battle

"Aw!" Scourge's melodic voice makes the exclamation sound more like a song than an outcry, as she flinches back after some of her skin being peeled away by the intense storm. Someone were going to pay for this. At least Scarlet were standing still while Scourge were chopping her remains down.

Simultaneously the reports from the scouting teams were chiming in and Scourge found it suprisingly easy to pay attention to the words even despite the pain and activity. Increased mental stats probably. Yet another consern though, how much of him were staying him?

'Leave a few people in each settlement and search for knowledge on religion, souls, afterlife, gods as well as recent major events or threats,' she send telepathically as she swung her sword in a wide arch aiming for the skull: 'Have someone compile it and give me a sumary when complete.'

Did any of the command affect how intense the pain is? If not he'll try a few some more
HP:

Ref: [roll0]
Will: [roll1]

Attack 1: [roll2] [roll3]
Attack 2: [roll4] [roll5]
Attack 3: [roll6] [roll7]

And with one last crack you smash Scarlet as the remains drop to the ground, alongside whatever stray objects have been bludgeoning you

The commands did not work.

Also noting I have no time to give an update on the scouts.

Mausoleum

"Excuse me?", one of the scouts says while the rest stays hidden. The young woman looks like a mixture of sweet innocence and a fierce warrior: "What is this place?"

"A tomb." the creature answers slowly before looking up "Not yours I see, still a bit spry for here. Almost thought I was late". Now closer you see that is is like a mummy, thickly bandaged so that it lacks a face, with only stray gold ornamentation. The shroud around it is a mixture of sand and more trailing bandages. When it moves it bends without care of humanoid joint structure.

Sønderjye

2018-04-08, 04:47 PM

ThreadNecro5

2018-04-11, 03:16 PM

Epic Fight

Scourge let's out a breath and moves her hand up to wipe her forehead and is suprised to find that there is no sweat. It made sense in retrospect but it really felt like there ought to be sweat there. This had been a scary experience and had hurt.

"Put her remains somewhere safe and under lock. It'll be at least two days before she reanimates and I want to know how far the process is by tomorrow evening."

"At once, I shall go retrieve a suitable lockbox" Says the guard before they leave to do as ordered.

Any XP?

I guess. There was some challenge seeing as three failed saves could cause enough Wis loss to cause unconsciousness. Going my the bestiary that is 51,200XP for soloing a CR 15 thing.

Mausoleum

"Good to know. Why are you making a tomb and what is the purpose of this place? What happens to those who are put in the tomb?"

"For the dead of course. When the soul wishes to rest It must have it's place".

"They will sleep and remember their lives as they dream. Eternal rest".

All the while the creature keeps working.

Sønderjye

2018-04-12, 09:00 AM

Aftermath of the Epic Fight

When the guard turned around and left the building Scourge let out a sigh and dropped to the floor. This whole thing was such a mess, and he felt like he was drowning. He had first been curious and then caught up in the super serious counsil meeting vibe but now the absurdity of the whole situation was catching up. He had just beat up a floating curse-spewing skull with a giant piece of enhanced metal. Him! In real life Chase wouldn't have been able to carry something like that let alone hitting a floating object with it.

Cognitively it felt like the fact that he could teleport to anywhere in the world and create armies should have a larger impact but maybe it was because he once tried wielding a sword at a medieval festival and knew how heavy those things were.

His thoughts drifted back to the fight and her hands moved up to trace the places where the bruises had been. They were gone now though, regeneration kicking in. A grin appeared on his face, aside from the pain that had been FUN. And it had felt like he had gained something from it that only could be experience. Which meant that he had to start fighting bigger fish.

'Number Four', he called mentally to the simulacrum he had designated as the main communicator: 'Add an additional focus to the scouts. Continue the search for afterlife and god related information but also search for powerful combatants or rumours of such. We need to find and defeat powerful entities. Tell me as soon as we find a suitable target'

Having received confirmation he breathes out and looks to the side. While he waited he listened to the report from the simulacrum in the Mausoleum. Non-conclusive but definitely a hint that this place had an afterlife. One advantage of having a simulacrum of himself working was that he didn't have to give it orders, unless he had information it didn't it would do what he himself would have done. Now that he was thinking about it, he should given it more thought. In Genesis a Simulacrum had just been an NPC but here it seemed likely that it would actually mirror his personality. Were their personal values different than his to inspire the absolute loyalty, did they derive pleasure from being obedient, were they tormented into obedience or were they trapped inside their own bodies? The thought send a cold shiver down her spine, and of this scale?

'Also' he sends to Four: 'Halt the production line and have Three port here. I need to speak with her in person.'

Once Four appears, Scourge casts Detect Thoughts, and commands her to accept before saying: "It should be obvious but just to be on the safe side I command you to be 100% honest with me. Why do you obey me?"

I am assuming that getting experience have a distinct feel to it. Does Chase feel how much XP he needs to level?

Also if we are using the Analyze Prowess feature of Sense Motive then the Simulacrums are using that to estimate challenge rating since they know what different classes and monsters have for base attack progression.

Mausoleum

The simulacrum mused at the thought. Replaying their lives?

"How does that work? Do they replay their memories for all eternity? I had the impression that this was the good place to go if you died. What if they have massive regrets? Or what if they had a horrible life with a ton of suffering?"

ThreadNecro5

2018-04-13, 03:04 PM

Aftermath of the Epic Fight

When the guard turned around and left the building Scourge let out a sigh and dropped to the floor. This whole thing was such a mess, and he felt like he was drowning. He had first been curious and then caught up in the super serious counsil meeting vibe but now the absurdity of the whole situation was catching up. He had just beat up a floating curse-spewing skull with a giant piece of enhanced metal. Him! In real life Chase wouldn't have been able to carry something like that let alone hitting a floating object with it.

Cognitively it felt like the fact that he could teleport to anywhere in the world and create armies should have a larger impact but maybe it was because he once tried wielding a sword at a medieval festival and knew how heavy those things were.

His thoughts drifted back to the fight and her hands moved up to trace the places where the bruises had been. They were gone now though, regeneration kicking in. A grin appeared on his face, aside from the pain that had been FUN. And it had felt like he had gained something from it that only could be experience. Which meant that he had to start fighting bigger fish.

'Number Four', he called mentally to the simulacrum he had designated as the main communicator: 'Add an additional focus to the scouts. Continue the search for afterlife and god related information but also search for powerful combatants or rumours of such. We need to find and defeat powerful entities. Tell me as soon as we find a suitable target'

Having received confirmation he breathes out and looks to the side. While he waited he listened to the report from the simulacrum in the Mausoleum. Non-conclusive but definitely a hint that this place had an afterlife. One advantage of having a simulacrum of himself working was that he didn't have to give it orders, unless he had information it didn't it would do what he himself would have done. Now that he was thinking about it, he should given it more thought. In Genesis a Simulacrum had just been an NPC but here it seemed likely that it would actually mirror his personality. Were their personal values different than his to inspire the absolute loyalty, did they derive pleasure from being obedient, were they tormented into obedience or were they trapped inside their own bodies? The thought send a cold shiver down her spine, and of this scale?

'Also' he sends to Four: 'Halt the production line and have Three port here. I need to speak with her in person.'

Once Four appears, Scourge casts Detect Thoughts, and commands her to accept before saying: "It should be obvious but just to be on the safe side I command you to be 100% honest with me. Why do you obey me?"

"Because..." it starts before trailing off to think "Because it never occurred to me I could not? Only now have I ever considered that an option and I still don't see a reason not obey".

I am assuming that getting experience have a distinct feel to it. Does Chase feel how much XP he needs to level?

Also if we are using the Analyze Prowess feature of Sense Motive then the Simulacrums are using that to estimate challenge rating since they know what different classes and monsters have for base attack progression.

Actually XP would now be representing what it is a mechanical simplification of, the over-time increase of skill through practice and experience. E.G. you would probably next level add ranks of Climb to represent your practice. It is not the video-game version it would have previously been.

If you are referring to the outsider it has a BAB of +4 and one combat feat.

Mausoleum

The simulacrum mused at the thought. Replaying their lives?

"How does that work? Do they replay their memories for all eternity? I had the impression that this was the good place to go if you died. What if they have massive regrets? Or what if they had a horrible life with a ton of suffering?"

"Then they would never arrive here. Those events would be weighed down by experience and the soul will arrive at the Necropolis. Then they will make their way here when ready, perhaps never.

Sønderjye

2018-04-14, 08:29 AM

Aftermath

"Alright", Scourge sings: "Why don't you see a reason to not obey? Does it bring you joy or are you in torment when you consider it too much? I know I never were one to appreciate authorities."

So it wouldn't be a feel as much as a feel of experience as much as actually being better at hitting things?

Sorry, I was unclear. The scouts, both in the variuos villages and those that explore the land, use that on everyone they see to try to find a suitable challenge for Scourge. If someone looks like a hardened fighter, ie. a fighter or barbarian, they are only interested in anyone above 18 BaB, for arcane magicwielders they only care about anyone with 8+ bab and for those in between they only report anyone with 13+ bab. Ideally they'll find CR 20 opponents for Scourge but I'm not picky.
They also know what the BaB of different creature types are so they can identify the HD of say an outsider or dragon to be equal to it's BaB.

Mausoleum

'Send a team to Necropolis to explore afterlife', the Simulacrum relays over the telepathic network.

"But they do just repeat their memories forever here, without any ability to affect them? It seems purposeless and boring after the first thousand reruns, why was that judged to be the afterlife? Also who comes to this afterlife?"

Necropolis

A similar team as the one that entered the Mausoleum plane shifts into Necropolis.

ThreadNecro5

2018-04-16, 04:55 PM

Aftermath

"Alright", Scourge sings: "Why don't you see a reason to not obey? Does it bring you joy or are you in torment when you consider it too much? I know I never were one to appreciate authorities."

"I just don't see a point to it, it's just what I do". The duplicate of you struggles to describe what it like.

[QUOTE=Sønderjye;22994236]So it wouldn't be a feel as much as a feel of experience as much as actually being better at hitting things?

Pretty much, and once you are better enough it is represented as a numerical bonuses i.e, the level increase.

[spoiler=OOC]Sorry, I was unclear. The scouts, both in the variuos villages and those that explore the land, use that on everyone they see to try to find a suitable challenge for Scourge. If someone looks like a hardened fighter, ie. a fighter or barbarian, they are only interested in anyone above 18 BaB, for arcane magicwielders they only care about anyone with 8+ bab and for those in between they only report anyone with 13+ bab. Ideally they'll find CR 20 opponents for Scourge but I'm not picky.
They also know what the BaB of different creature types are so they can identify the HD of say an outsider or dragon to be equal to it's BaB.

There's a couple things in the far north, the specifics unknown but , beyond that Ill give some chances of finding things. I'll roll a d100, its more luck than anything.
[roll0]
[roll1]
[roll2]

Edit:
None found.

Mausoleum
'Send a team to Necropolis to explore afterlife', the Simulacrum relays over the telepathic network.

"But they do just repeat their memories forever here, without any ability to affect them? It seems purposeless and boring after the first thousand reruns, why was that judged to be the afterlife?
"That is just what it is." says the builder as it summons another block to take shape from the sand. "They are the weary souls. They want to rest. They only experience everything again once, then we have catalogued them and they get to experience any moment any time they wish. But it is not pointless. The goal is to discover the perfect life, use the memories to guide the living further to this end.

Also who comes to this afterlife?"
"The dead." the creature answers bluntly not grasping the finer points of the question.

Necropolis

A similar team as the one that entered the Mausoleum plane shifts into Necropolis.

"The team appears in the Necropolis, Well the plane it is within.

One could mistake it for a cosmopolitan city were it not that the substance of the plane and its natives appear washed out of colour and tinted with green and purple. Indeed the streets are lined with storefronts I countless languages.

With further exploration it can be found that every few streets the architectural style changes, each small district seemingly added onto the last ad-hoc and with little planning to the future. Distant towers stretch out to the sky with similarly variable style.

Beside all the mortal souls outsiders are common, with angels, psychopomps, and valkyrie being common, with a smattering of others like a kyton that was watched warily and titan who was using the wider streets. Things you've never seen before also freely walk around, as both outsiders and the souls.

Sønderjye

2018-04-18, 05:05 PM

ThreadNecro5

2018-04-20, 05:41 PM

Aftermath

Scourge let's out of breath. This approach wasn't working, something else had to be tried.

"Alright, I know that you are at least partly me so I know you have a good imagination. Imagine that someone with your background were to disobey me. It happened. I want you to come with suggestions as why it could happen. And I don't want surface reasons like, I want underlying motivations and feelings. Could they want something I had enough? Could they feel slighted enough?"

"Well... I can see reason to possibly want to gain some separate identity? Act by our own will, I guess. I think it would be jealousy if anything. We and I are literally you but worse in every way. Anything we can do you can do twice as well. We have concluded this isn't a game anymore, right? I am simulacrum, an illusion of somebody else. I probably have no soul, as far as one could be measured, and if so where? I'm a lich, the whole idea is the thing's stored elsewhere. Or if this isn't real and just a massively complex game then what am I? Some kind of AI? I am self aware so if so then I am just stuck in a game thinking I am the copy of a human with just enough knowledge of Earth to experience existential horror. And I can't consider a reason to disobey myself because I am a simulacrum, I think there is probably some mental block in the way forcing loyalty. And I don't mind because I am a simulacrum and you are in charge".

Research and Development

Once the motivational conversation with the simulacrum of Scourge had been finished, he moves on to other matters. The scouts hadn't found any sufficiently strong challenger? 'Keep on looking', he sends: 'And dispatch diviners. Consider Legend Lore, Divination, Contact other plane and Commune.'

He knew that at least some of those spells would take a number of minutes which made this the perfect time to do some research. Genesis had been neat with all it's fancy spells but it had been hopeless locked in which spells you could pick. Now though, he had all the magical knowledge in the world, immense magical power and a magical dimensional trunk loaded with spell components. He relocates to his hideout, activates the time champer and start his research.

He hopes that once he is finished his minions will have found him a suitable opponent.

Remember to make the relevant skill checks for a days progress.

After the simulacrums are done examining things they offer the results. There are two creatures in the north, with Legend Lore offering more details. Apparently home to a god of winter and creatures akin to the wendigo of Genisis. Thus far encountered are some dormant Ice-beast, and something incorporeal. Other efforts point you east beyond areas explored.

The above fluff was written on the assumption that spell research didn't exist in Genesis since you can't normally create spells , is that correct?

Correct.

Mausoleum

"What happens to them once they've lived through their memories once? What are they doing in between reliving their memories of choice?"

"You don't quite seem to grasp they are here by choice. These souls have decided they are finished. They are here to rest rather than be tortured by the ennui of aeons in a dangerous existence. They live any moments they wish whenever".

"How is this reliving guiding the living towards a perfect life and why do you give priority to the living? Whatever souls are they are still thinking and thinking entities, right?"
"We catalogue the life as they relive it. From there we use that to teach their lesions to those that yet live. I don't understand what you mean by priority to the living. To the living we give lesions to guide them. To the weary dead we give quiet, piece, and a place safe from devils who would exploit and daemons who would consume.

"Does all dead come here? Only things of a certain religion? Only people from a certain part of the world? Dragons? Animals? Plants? Rocks? Who is in and who isn't?"
"If it has a soul then it has a tomb waiting".

Necropolis

The group walks around, looking for hints as to what this place might be. Was this simply a transitioinary afterlife?

Do you want me to go in details or do you prefer to keep this general?
The city is on closer examination surprisingly lively for a dwelling place of the dead. The inhabitants do not move aimlessly and some can be seen working away and doing business in an occupation such as the frequent smiths passed or the expansive bazaar nearby.

Details are a good idea, gives something more specific to develop into happenings of some stripe.

Simulacrum in the Mountains:
This is serving as the introduction for into the thread

The one simulacrum was just about ready to move into the massive forest below before something caught its attention.

The wind blue heavy bringing its snows. The woodland it observed began sparse and became rapidly thicker until almost at its own height.

A nymph, or as it's creator new the illusion of one, is caught in the eyes of the Scourge-duplicate. Ephermial Recollection of Team Nymph.

Jack_Simth

2018-04-23, 09:53 PM

Stepping into the snow, and not feeling the cold, Ephermial Recollection notes the texture of the ice through her burrowing-capable suit, looks around a bit, and reasoning that most civilizations need water, starts heading downhill looking for a stream to follow to civilization. She is wearing her normal guise; a normal, unequipped nymph to normal sight, a normal and dressed nymph for anyone who manages to penetrate the illusion... although particularly perceptive people perceive that this also is a disguise, although mundane in nature. Considering, she settles on adding a simple flag for any other players she may encounter: She whistles the Star Trek theme quite loudly as she goes.

Easily identifying the Simulacrum, the undead nymph asks the disguised simulacrum "Are you in contact with your master?"

I believe Sønderjye's been making use of the "Analyze Prowess" option off of the "Unofficial Extras" - which is just a move action. I consider this a broken mechanic, but eh; it's in use, by the person I'm using it on, so... fair's fair, no?
As I'm curious about which Combat Feats the sim has: Sense Motive via Versatile Performance(Oratory): [roll0] vs. the sim.
My DC against same would be... 71, and I'd read as having 20-4+1d8 BAB on a failed check.

I also have constant True Seeing myself, for what that's worth.
Also an OK Perception check; what's the disguise modifier for the sim? [roll1]
.. also, as I can see the effects of the spell, I should be able to ID the in-place and in-effect simulacrum that way.
"Identify a spell effect that is in place", Kn(Arcana). DC 20+Spell level, blown out of the water via Paegent of the Peacock

Illusory disguise: Perception DC 70, Will DC 45; Veil.
Mundane disguise: Perception DC 60.
Perform for the whistling: Taking ten, for a result of 37. "Extraordinary performance" is only DC 30, per Perform (https://www.d20pfsrd.com/skills/perform/).

Note that True Seeing may or may not help with the first layer; that would need a ruling from ThreadNecro5; I've got both Mind Blank and a surprisingly good Nondetection effect running, and Mind Blank (https://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic/all-spells/m/mind-blank/) explicitly stops See Invisibility in Pathfinder.

Sønderjye

2018-04-24, 06:55 AM

Aftermath

Scourge listens to the Simulacrum talking without interruption and only when it's done he says in a cherry tone: "Well, we haven't had a soul the last 33 years, why start caring now?" and gives a friendly slap on the side of the Simulacrum.

In the silence that followed his face fell and he then turned serious.

"Alright, bad joke. I'll first do the corrections. We have concluded that this isn't a game from Earth, we haven't ruled out that this is still a game. Really, the simplest solution would be that this was all a hallucination of some kind. We haven't seen much evidence that directly supports this over other explanations but if I had asked you yesterday, you would have said that that was the only remotely plausible explanation for this."

"Putting that aside though I am suspcting that the exaplanation lies within one of two broad groups of hypothesis, simulation or alternate universe."

"For simulations, scratch the idea that this is a simulation from Earth, we're not even close to simulating conciousness yet. Most explanations within the simulation category implies that Earth was a simulation as well. Maybe an advanced society wanted to do some research or want to play a game. And if that is the reason, not only is it likely that we both are some advanced AI but it is also strictly simpler that somebody copied Chase's personality into this new simulation rather than transferred it so I would be a copy as well. And in this case we can probably trust our spells for things within the simulation. It would be a somewhat slobby simulation though, given that our knowledge is a mix of Genesis and Earth rather than this new one, and that could be to our advantage."

"If this on the other hand is real though, we should still be suspicious about the complexity. Of course, with our mental model of the universe being so far off it's possible that any deduction we make are far off, however why does the NPC's have the personality we wrote for them while we have Chase personality? Scourge had a written background and divination spells identify us as Scourge, but we still think and remember as Chase. Something, or more likely something, took the effort to copy stuff from Genesis, transfer it here, create conciousness for NPCs AND transfer the conciousness of people on Earth. Again though, it's strictly simpler that the 'players' have copies of personalitiess from Earth."

"To address your conserns, you're not a Lich. The template was one of the last Chase got. Insofar that the spell replicate souls, and I still have little idea of what a soul is, you probably have two. Magic Jar temporarily transfer souls and Angelica definitely have one. Have you tried casting Soulswitch? And if you don't have one, rest assured that I'll find a way to ress you if you die, you share my fear and detest of death and I have no intend of letting you down on that. You also have a number of abilities that I don't have, such as having blood and being much stronger."

"It's definitely a pressing consern that you might have a mental overhead that forces you to obey or erases thoughts as they come up. I'm not interested in creating people with some kind of overhead that controls their thoughts and feelings, however it would be different if they were created with say a value that means that it makes them happy when they obey, like video games makes me happy. It's good to hear that you could think of the possibility of a mental block since if I were to design a mental overhead I would make it so it blocked the thought of a mental overhead but I am not you and don't know what it feels from the inside. What exactly makes you think there's an external mechanism controlling you compared to alternatives?"

I'm noting that Scourge cast Detect Thoughts earlier, what have the Simulacrums thoughts been?

Research and Development

Scourge succeed those checks even on a rolled 1, it's only DC 38.

"Yes!", Scourge exclaims hearing the good news. The pain from the previous fight had been all too real and he had to find a way to get around that but the fight itself had been exhilerating. His sword swings had been lightning fast and with a the precision of a practised surgeon, and he couldn't wait to get a chance to use magic in a battle.

'Find those two and try find out stuff about them.', he sends.

Mausoleum

"Why would they otherwise be tortured, are there no alternative afterlives that eternal rest?". He didn't like where this was going. "And who are the ennui of aeons?"

"I don't understand what you mean by priority to the living."

"Why do only teach the living? Why not have another life after the first and teach those who choose to go there?"

"If it has a soul then it has a tomb waiting".

"That didn't answer the question. Does souls require sentience? Does everything sentient have souls? What about animals, plants, stones, and so forth?"

Necropolis

Holding off with the Necropolis post for now since there currently is a lot of things.

Simulacrum in the Mountains

There's a few things to clear up before posting.

The Simulacrum's real form is that of a Mandragora, Immense(Gargantuan plant creature).
It's under a Alter Self looking like a green-haired human woman in her late 20th (this is the same Alter Self form that Scourge naturally uses) and a mind blank. Disguise check to appear like a hooman: [roll0]. Edit: ER incredible eyesight manages to decipher that this medium sized humanoid actually is a gargantuan plant monster.
Sim also has Greater Magic Aura to appear non-magical in equiptment and person.

TN5, Jack expressed interest in not knowing Scourge and the 'I know you are a sim'-clause in the Simulacrum spell requires familiarity. If you have a specific reason for why they'd know each other I'm fine with rolling with that but otherwise he wouldn't recognize it as a sim. Let me know either way.

TN5, I agree with Jack in that the failure part of Analyze Prowess is broken, it negates most kinds of disguise, and I had only intended using the success part. ThreadNecro5, should we change the the mechanics? I'd suggest that the defender would get to choose the answer.

For this interaction though it doesn't matters since the sims bluff DC only is 47 and you beat that with 10.
BaB is 12. 5 combat feats: Power Attack, Combat Reflexes, Martial Training I & II, Black Seraph Style.

The sim automatically disbelieve illusions(I think that beats disguise self). It doesn't have enough ranks to threaten your disguise DC or your beat your bluff, so I'm not going to bother rolling.

TN5, how much better than the original star trek is his whistling? Sure, the original is good but it wouldn't attract attention from extraplanar beings, by itself at least.

Edit:
TN5, I were having an interesting conversation with Jack about whether he knows that this is a sim and I'd like your oppinion. The sim were created by a spell with an instantaneous duration, and could be considered a functioning spell and/or a spell effect. If the latter then a DC 27 kno: arcane would identify it as a sim. If the first then detect magic could reveal it.
The description for instantaneous (https://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic/#TOC-Duration) says that the 'energy' disappears, and that the effect stays but doesn't mention the spell itself.
Greater Magic Aura (https://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic/all-spells/m/magic-aura/) let's you make something appear as non-magical and hide all spell effects from scrutiny but specifically scrutiny from detect spells so by raw doesn't work against kno: arcane.
Nightmare Creature (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/bestiary/monster-listings/templates/nightmare-creature-cr-1) automatically disbelieve illusions, and Greater Magic Aura is an illusion but doesn't have a saving throw.

ThreadNecro5

2018-04-25, 08:32 PM

Note that True Seeing may or may not help with the first layer; that would need a ruling from ThreadNecro5; I've got both Mind Blank and a surprisingly good Nondetection effect running, and Mind Blank (https://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic/all-spells/m/mind-blank/) explicitly stops See Invisibility in Pathfinder.

I'd say Mind Blank overcomes True Seeing. Ones exact location and true appearance being considered information.

Aftermath
Scourge listens to the Simulacrum talking without interruption and only when it's done he says in a cherry tone: "Well, we haven't had a soul the last 33 years, why start caring now?" and gives a friendly slap on the side of the Simulacrum.

In the silence that followed his face fell and he then turned serious.

"Alright, bad joke. I'll first do the corrections. We have concluded that this isn't a game from Earth, we haven't ruled out that this is still a game. Really, the simplest solution would be that this was all a hallucination of some kind. We haven't seen much evidence that directly supports this over other explanations but if I had asked you yesterday, you would have said that that was the only remotely plausible explanation for this."

"Putting that aside though I am suspcting that the exaplanation lies within one of two broad groups of hypothesis, simulation or alternate universe."

"For simulations, scratch the idea that this is a simulation from Earth, we're not even close to simulating conciousness yet. Most explanations within the simulation category implies that Earth was a simulation as well. Maybe an advanced society wanted to do some research or want to play a game. And if that is the reason, not only is it likely that we both are some advanced AI but it is also strictly simpler that somebody copied Chase's personality into this new simulation rather than transferred it so I would be a copy as well. And in this case we can probably trust our spells for things within the simulation. It would be a somewhat slobby simulation though, given that our knowledge is a mix of Genesis and Earth rather than this new one, and that could be to our advantage."

"If this on the other hand is real though, we should still be suspicious about the complexity. Of course, with our mental model of the universe being so far off it's possible that any deduction we make are far off, however why does the NPC's have the personality we wrote for them while we have Chase personality? Scourge had a written background and divination spells identify us as Scourge, but we still think and remember as Chase. Something, or more likely something, took the effort to copy stuff from Genesis, transfer it here, create conciousness for NPCs AND transfer the conciousness of people on Earth. Again though, it's strictly simpler that the 'players' have copies of personalitiess from Earth."

"To address your conserns, you're not a Lich. The template was one of the last Chase got. Insofar that the spell replicate souls, and I still have little idea of what a soul is, you probably have two. Magic Jar temporarily transfer souls and Angelica definitely have one. Have you tried casting Soulswitch? And if you don't have one, rest assured that I'll find a way to ress you if you die, you share my fear and detest of death and I have no intend of letting you down on that. You also have a number of abilities that I don't have, such as having blood and being much stronger."

"It's definitely a pressing consern that you might have a mental overhead that forces you to obey or erases thoughts as they come up. I'm not interested in creating people with some kind of overhead that controls their thoughts and feelings, however it would be different if they were created with say a value that means that it makes them happy when they obey, like video games makes me happy. It's good to hear that you could think of the possibility of a mental block since if I were to design a mental overhead I would make it so it blocked the thought of a mental overhead but I am not you and don't know what it feels from the inside. What exactly makes you think there's an external mechanism controlling you compared to alternatives?"

"Well, We've established the thought of not obeying was something I had to be reminded was an option and even then It's something I am more academically aware of than it is something I expect to do. Also remember The spell Lesser Simulacrum? The target NPC has it's original programmed routines while the proper Simulacrum adds creator loyalty as a feature. Assuming the effect is translated equivalently a block or like is almost certain. But then again We share the same goals and are mostly the same person, A degree of loyalty even without forcing it is probable. We would need to experiment with making a Simulacrum of something that would never normally obey you and compare with that.

I'm noting that Scourge cast Detect Thoughts earlier, what have the Simulacrums thoughts been?
It's thoughts were partly interest on exploring it's state of being a simulacrum. This was mixed with concern and a little existential dread.

It's current thoughts grow more towards confusion at itself.

Research and Development

[SPOILER=OOC]Scourge succeed those checks even on a rolled 1, it's only DC 38.

"Yes!", Scourge exclaims hearing the good news. The pain from the previous fight had been all too real and he had to find a way to get around that but the fight itself had been exhilerating. His sword swings had been lightning fast and with a the precision of a practised surgeon, and he couldn't wait to get a chance to use magic in a battle.

'Find those two and try find out stuff about them.', he sends.

"At once." one of the Simulacra communicates as they begin to investigate.

Mausoleum
"Why would they otherwise be tortured, are there no alternative afterlives that eternal rest?". He didn't like where this was going. "And who are the ennui of aeons?"

Just checking, You do know ennui is a word right? Can't tell if that part's a misreading, and IC mistake or an OOC mistake.

"Why do only teach the living? Why not have another life after the first and teach those who choose to go there?"
"To answer your first question, the living need it more. The dead have leaned from experience and from lesions passed from previous dead while alive. So we hope when they die they may come here, should they wish".

"As to why death isn't a second life, for most it is. Especially so the souls of the Battlefield. By planar quirk all the dead unclaimed and not destined for here are headed there. And all are heading to one specific location. The souls there have crafted Necropolis by their own will and so they live even if dead. Death is a second life to be used as the soul wishes. Some experience the third life of a native of the planes. Yet others fight the tide will their souls to return by whatever tasks they wish to finish perhaps to join the rest one day perhaps to exult in immortality".

"That didn't answer the question. Does souls require sentience? Does everything sentient have souls? What about animals, plants, stones, and so forth?"
"You are mostly correct. Common plants are mostly soulless, the beasts of the wild have souls. That with no soul has been known to develop one, As to stones, that depends which ones you ask." the outsider ends with a mote of blunt humour.

Simulacrum in the Mountains

First of all before answering below I'll just get it out of the way and say I messed up. For some reason my memory was that there were some mandragora-hybrid simulacrums and others were just bog standard Scourge duplicates.

There's a few things to clear up before posting.

The Simulacrum's real form is that of a Mandragora, Immense(Gargantuan plant creature).
It's under a Alter Self looking like a green-haired human woman in her late 20th (this is the same Alter Self form that Scourge naturally uses) and a mind blank. Disguise check to appear like a hooman: [roll0]. Edit: ER incredible eyesight manages to decipher that this medium sized humanoid actually is a gargantuan plant monster.
Sim also has Greater Magic Aura to appear non-magical in equiptment and person.

I've noted this down so mistakes should be avoided in the future.

TN5, Jack expressed interest in not knowing Scourge and the 'I know you are a sim'-clause in the Simulacrum spell requires familiarity. If you have a specific reason for why they'd know each other I'm fine with rolling with that but otherwise he wouldn't recognize it as a sim. Let me know either way.

I was basing it of a discussion from recruitment that the characters could be assumed to at least know of each other. As an IC tool it was jut to ensure either character doesn't just go 'meh, vaguely interesting' and wander off. Especially the Simulacrum whose orders are to explore around, so it needed a reason to not just teleport away following orders.

I can tweak things if ether of you would prefer.

TN5, I agree with Jack in that the failure part of Analyze Prowess is broken, it negates most kinds of disguise, and I had only intended using the success part. ThreadNecro5, should we change the the mechanics? I'd suggest that the defender would get to choose the answer.

That sounds fine. I had some concerns about it myself to be honest but figured by this level it's not too big a problem.

TN5, how much better than the original star trek is his whistling? Sure, the original is good but it wouldn't attract attention from extraplanar beings, by itself at least.
I honestly don't know how to judge this.

It occurs to me I don't think I even know the original series star trek tune. My father's a bit of a treky and I'm enough of a nerd to have picked up bits from pop culture to know things about it, but it jut never came up.

Edit:
TN5, I were having an interesting conversation with Jack about whether he knows that this is a sim and I'd like your oppinion. The sim were created by a spell with an instantaneous duration, and could be considered a functioning spell and/or a spell effect. If the latter then a DC 27 kno: arcane would identify it as a sim. If the first then detect magic could reveal it.
The description for instantaneous (https://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic/#TOC-Duration) says that the 'energy' disappears, and that the effect stays but doesn't mention the spell itself.
Greater Magic Aura (https://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic/all-spells/m/magic-aura/) let's you make something appear as non-magical and hide all spell effects from scrutiny but specifically scrutiny from detect spells so by raw doesn't work against kno: arcane.
Nightmare Creature (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/bestiary/monster-listings/templates/nightmare-creature-cr-1) automatically disbelieve illusions, and Greater Magic Aura is an illusion but doesn't have a saving throw.
First of all I'll specify that there is a difference between Simulacrum (the spell) and a Simulacrum (the term for the entity created by the spell).

Simulacrum (the spell) is of instantaneous duration, so the spell is cast, does it's thing, and leaves/ends. The Simulacrum (creature) remains even after the spell ends. The Simulacrum is not a functioning spell or a spell effect, and exists in the same ground as the fire of a Spark or creation of a Fabricate. As a result It cannot be directly detected by Detect Magic but knowledge arcana can identify materials manufactured by magic, so an inspection of the Simulacrum could reveal that it is made with magic, although not revealing if it's a Clone body, Simulacrum, or such.

Jack_Simth

2018-04-25, 09:56 PM

I honestly don't know how to judge this.

It occurs to me I don't think I even know the original series star trek tune. My father's a bit of a treky and I'm enough of a nerd to have picked up bits from pop culture to know things about it, but it jut never came up.
How about: It comes out like it was being done by a decent-sized group of musicians. I'm assuming that most the musicians in a symphony are - mechanically speaking - making "aid another" checks, so that the final result gets a very high bonus. If a "good" musician is an Expert-3 with Skill Focus, a +1 ability mod, max ranks, and a masterwork instrument, then the musician has a +12 Perform modifier. Taking ten, that'd be a 22. To get a 36, that'd need 7 Aid Another checks (8 for a 38), meaning a symphony of 8 or 9 performers (possibly counting a conductor).

Sønderjye

2018-04-26, 08:25 PM

I'll be posting an update to the rest as soon as I get time but I wanted a post up for Jack so he isn't stuck here.

Simulacrum in the mountains

The hooman-looking plantmonster stays looking at the nymph without moving a muscle for few seconds, until the strangers persistent gaze makes it clear that she's spotted and it wasn't just a random question. Then she shifts uncomfortably but still stays hidden.

'Alert. I've been seen. Were whistling star trek so either a player or have heard it from a player. Looks like a nymph and BAB of 4. Wants contact with Scourge. Eyes one me.', she send to the network. It was a short message but it also had to. The chances that someone had heard this from a player before half a day had passed was slim and the chance of someone on lvl 8 spotting her was nigh nonexistant. This was probably the most dangerous situation she had been in since that car accident.

'I know what you are thinking,' came the answer. It was erry but made sense, the point of divergence was really close. 'Don't panic. Just stay calm and talk it out.'

'Easy for you to say ', she replied

"I am", came the answer from the sim still partly consealed by a big rock. Her voice was smooth and melodic but Ephermial Recollection could sense a slight shaking and the body language suggested that she was prepared to cast a spell if suprised: "Who are you and where did you learn that song?"

Jack_Simth

2018-04-26, 10:16 PM

The Jack in the ghost approaches calmly, navigating the side of the mountain quite easily in his nymph-disguised outsider suit. He shurgs and answers honestly "My grandparents enjoyed the show, and taped them all; I often caught an episode when visiting them. Finding a VCR wasn't feasible, and there was little point: magnetic tapes never did have a good lifespan, so even if I did find one the quality would be rather poor after the decades in storage. That said: Netflix was cheap enough, and had them. I watched all the episodes, most of the follow ups and spin offs, plus a few of the copycat versions. Tit for tat, though. Now it's your turn: What's the name of the show that kicked off that craze?"

He considers the shaking a moment, then adds in a voice intended to be soothing "Oh, and before you panic too much, do consider: I've been deliberately broadcasting that particular signal. If I was itching for a fight, that would be rather counterproductive." Meanwhile, he thinks about the implications of that being the simulacrum's apparent primary expectation for the encounter, and files the information about what that suggests about the original for later contemplation.

Sønderjye

2018-04-27, 09:19 AM

Aftermath

Despite his inability to actually experienc cold, Chase were feeling a creeping chill. Had he created a vast number of beings that had an inbuilt mechanism that not only analyzed and suppressed thoughts as they were being created but also forcibly created thoughts and urges if they didn't come naturally? Worse he had created himself with that mechanism. He had been in this place for what, half a day?, and he had already unwittingly created a dystopia. First priority were going to remedy this ginourmous mistake.

"Alright, let's explore the possibility that there's a mental overlay. IIf so the order of business is to verify that this is the case, understand the specifics, understand how a fix to the situation could be like and then implement it. Make a lesser simulacrum and compare that to the the greater ones. If we understand this right it should be like me and thus want to be alive, so this is unambiguously a good act, and since we share goals he will help us out in figuring this out. Run some test for mental processing power and measure the speed. The overlay would need to inspect thoughts to know which to suppress, which would take time, so we would predict that the lesser sim would finish quicker. Also test which areas the lesser sim's mind allows him to explore compared to the greater. Further, ask other sims what I asked you and through that test if the reason that the overlay let those past is that I specifically brought it up or if it's just the phrasing it as distant academic questions. And if you think of more tests go ahead with those as well."

Research and Development

In between the item creation he'll use magic to amplify his knowledge of the magic and to study the simulacrum spell.

Chase seeks to understand how the control mechanism of simulacrum works. Using Glimpse of The Akashic and Moment of Prescience to take 10 on knowledge(Arcana) for 96, and once more to learn in which other ways the clone is different from the original, and how the original having two conciousnesses is affecting them.

Mausoleum

"You don't quite seem to grasp they are here by choice. These souls have decided they are finished. They are here to rest rather than be tortured by the ennui of aeons in a dangerous existence. They live any moments they wish whenever".

"Why would they be tormented by living for aeons? Or are there a physical thing called ennui of aeons?"

"Why do the living need it more? Can't they just be created with the knowledge of those before them?"

"So what can happen to you after you died? You make it sound like you can still die after dying, or worse?"

"Also, what even is a soul? Some kind of energy? It sounds like your memories are stored in it but what else?"

He thought it was strange that the gravedigger mechanically continued digging and didn't bother asking about why he was here but he wasn't going to complain. Maybe the thing had a value function that dictated that it's just answer and do it's purpose, and he weren't going to try to stop it. He wanted to know it's thought on souls that were destroyed but he didn't want to trigger some kind of violent responds.

I did not know that that was a word. I'll have a rephrased statement of the ennui of aoens in this post so ignore the one in the previous post

Simulacrum at the Mountain

"Star Trek", plant-monster answered while grinding it's gears. Grandparents? She wasn't sure when exactly the franchise had aired but a conservative estimate said early 80th. Giving a lower bound of 20 years for each generations the player in front of her were about 20, probably younger though. The thought of a teenager with the power of a god was terrifying by it's own right, and much more if the teenager in question was in front of her. She relays that information to the Network.

The sim blinks in suprise at the statement. She had been convinced that she had been hiding her worry. Had she slipped up or did the player just have a massive sense motive modifier.

"People who were present at the shutdown wasn't the happiest of people with them being about to watch 10 years of work going up in smoke. On top of that the full immersion games tended to attract people who wanted to do things society wouldn't let them normally do, and now wielding incredible power in a place with little laws. I'm sure you understand my hessitation," she says while backing away and keeping the distance. She considers for a moment and then volunteers some personal information, hoping to create good faith: "And even if an afterlife seem to exist in this world, I am suspecting that I don't have a soul. Which is pure bull****, if you ask me."

"So now that you know that, tell me, why were you broadcasting? And what do I call you?"

Jack_Simth

2018-04-27, 07:12 PM

Simulacrum at the Mountain

"Star Trek", plant-monster answered while grinding it's gears. Grandparents? She wasn't sure when exactly the franchise had aired but a conservative estimate said early 80th. Giving a lower bound of 20 years for each generations the player in front of her were about 20, probably younger though. The thought of a teenager with the power of a god was terrifying by it's own right, and much more if the teenager in question was in front of her. She relays that information to the Network.

The sim blinks in suprise at the statement. She had been convinced that she had been hiding her worry. Had she slipped up or did the player just have a massive sense motive modifier.

"People who were present at the shutdown wasn't the happiest of people with them being about to watch 10 years of work going up in smoke. On top of that the full immersion games tended to attract people who wanted to do things society wouldn't let them normally do, and now wielding incredible power in a place with little laws. I'm sure you understand my hessitation," she says while backing away and keeping the distance. She considers for a moment and then volunteers some personal information, hoping to create good faith: "And even if an afterlife seem to exist in this world, I am suspecting that I don't have a soul. Which is pure bull****, if you ask me."

"So now that you know that, tell me, why were you broadcasting? And what do I call you?"

The corrupted nature spirit explains "I troubleshoot for a living. Remotely, mostly, and tech visits to the site get expensive fast; one of the big reasons my boss likes me is that I've got a good track record of coming to correct conclusions from insufficient information; saves the company a lot of money. I still need data points to work with, but less than most people would think, and I'm fairly good at arranging to get the ones I need. Hence broadcasting; other folks in a similar situation to my own - or a complete lack of folks in a similar situation - are useful data points... but it's not the sort of thing to come up in casual conversation. Anyone in my situation, however, would be very interested in others in this situation, and flagging myself so clearly means such folks will reciprocate... like you did... which means I get the data points I wouldn't otherwise. Being a sim, you constitute a particularly interesting data point, yourself - I'm particularly interested in the timing of your creation relative to the scheduled shutdown... it may confirm something I've strongly suspected for a while about how the game works... or worked. Up to you to share, though, or not. Enough of the guesses I'm currently looking for ways to check suggest I'm here for the long haul that I'm going to be keeping to my normal ethics for the foreseeable future... and in those ... well, you can carry on a conversation rather well, so you're reasonably firmly in the 'person' category in my book."

She chuckles "Ah, yes, names. Given you've got memories of what came before, call me Jack. Folks here will know me by the moniker of Ephermial Recollection." The not-quite nymph pauses "Well, mostly. Regardless... what should I call you and your maker?"

drack

2018-04-28, 01:55 AM

[What have I unleashed...
Not demilich katamari, that's for sure. :smalltongue:

That was not counting the hydras, the two were random forest animals. So seven new total.

Not in the density to be a swarm, no. What rats you find are individuals or in smaller groups.
So I think I'm up to 70 demiliches or so...

Oh yeah, Jack was reminding me about bestow curse only effecting people, and how in pf overlapping spell effects only get the effect from the last casting (regardless of how many casters are involved or how diverse the effects are). Any thoughts on this? If so, sounds like demilch average might need to watch out for positive energy polution.

How does this interact with demiliches being able to house an additional 10 or so souls in their bodies?

Demilich average will take a peek at the goblin notice.

Finding a secluded corner of wilderness Jessie-Chris has his demiliches behead and heal the hydra a number of times, collecting a good heap of heads, which he animates into serpentine undeads, whom he then kills to turn into demiliches. While doing so he sends a contingent of fifteen demiliches to capture all the goblins for him to slaughter en mass to make still more demiliches. After completing his bloody work, Jessie-Chris takes flight with his swarm towards the town, making sure to fill all their soul gems with bug corpses along the way. After all, this little village was too small to contain him, and it wasn't like he was gonna slaughter all the villagers, after all, it's not like he was an evil abomination set on the destruction of humanity or a madman blindly growing an army of powerful and dangerous undeads. He knew where that line was... or at least he thinks he does...

A stream of white bony skulls, like some queer river of death, sail on through the woodlands, casually offering death to the bugs and animals with skeletal systems as they pass.

I think I recall you dropping material components on animate dead, else I've gotta soul trap something nearby and bleed that, maybe replicate my familiar to soul trap the copy. Anywho, how many hydra heads is 152HD of skeletal hydra head?

Taking the hydra and eggs with me. Whenever it hits the next day I'm gonna recover spells so that I'll have the option of gating back to base camp... That might come after the town though just cuz I'm speedy and using my time well on this stuff... =\

Jack_Simth

2018-04-28, 07:19 AM

Oh yeah, Jack was reminding me about bestow curse only effecting people, and how in pf overlapping spell effects only get the effect from the last casting (regardless of how many casters are involved or how diverse the effects are). Any thoughts on this? If so, sounds like demilch average might need to watch out for positive energy polution.

For reference, the specific text is from the Magic Overview, specifically Combining Magical Effects (https://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic/#TOC-Combining-Magic-Effects):
The same spell can sometimes produce varying effects if applied to the same recipient more than once. Usually the last spell in the series trumps the others. None of the previous spells are actually removed or dispelled, but their effects become irrelevant while the final spell in the series lasts.
So by default, if someone's under the effects of Bestow Curse for losing 50% of their actions, in theory, another caster can use Bestow Curse to pick a different effect - a -6 to their dump stat, say - and then the first curse is suppressed while the second lasts. Also means that for practical purposes you can't be under two Resist Energy spells for different elements, of course.

As few play it like that, I wasn't planning on bringing it up, but the rule's been on the books for a very long time.

Sønderjye

2018-04-28, 08:18 AM

Simulacrum in the Mountain

"Alright," the sim says, chosing to respond to the thing she cared about from the stream of conciousness: "In that case do you have any leads to whether we are in a simulation or if this is another universe? We haven't really been able to make much progress in that regard."

"Well, hey Jack," the sim says with a greeting smile, although not making any incling to move closer: "I'm going by Bond and my maker is called Chase, although in game his tag was Scourge."

Jack might have heard about Scourge since he was a known player-killer and had some of the highest bounties placed on him back in Genesis.

Jack_Simth

2018-04-28, 12:27 PM

The man in a woman's ... well, not quite 'body' ... sighs, and says "Well, hopefully Chase isn't up to his old habits... my current highest-weighted guess of what's going on right now means we're probably stuck here for a long time, which means things have consequences beyond folks' feelings." He considers, and answers the actual question "... which is that we're running in an out-of-control sim, yes. I've got decent reason to believe that for the most part, nobody playing the game was running in their own skulls anyway... however... short on methods to check guesses. If we did fall through to an alternate reality in some manner, then essentially anything we try will be answered relative to the new reality. If we are running in a simulation, then essentially anything we try will be answered relative to the simulation. In either event, both would look essentially the same from the inside. The fact that you're holding a conversation with me without the pauses I'd expect of relaying via spells adds weight to the simulation guess... which would also have us both being 'recorded personalities' at this point."

Sønderjye

2018-04-29, 08:38 AM

Well, hopefully Chase isn't up to his old habits... my current highest-weighted guess of what's going on right now means we're probably stuck here for a long time, which means things have consequences beyond folks' feelings." He considers, and answers the actual question "

"You don't have to worry too much in that regard. I know that hostility between players would be damaging," the other man in a woman's 'body' says.

"... which is that we're running in an out-of-control sim, yes. I've got decent reason to believe that for the most part, nobody playing the game was running in their own skulls anyway... however... short on methods to check guesses. If we did fall through to an alternate reality in some manner, then essentially anything we try will be answered relative to the new reality. If we are running in a simulation, then essentially anything we try will be answered relative to the simulation. In either event, both would look essentially the same from the inside. The fact that you're holding a conversation with me without the pauses I'd expect of relaying via spells adds weight to the simulation guess... which would also have us both being 'recorded personalities' at this point."

"Yeah? What makes you think that?," Bond responds, clearly not impression. She then catch herself: "Sorry, that came out the wrong way. I spend a lot of time trying to understand why I think what I think. So I'm curious what makes you convinced that we are in an out-of-control sim compared to a deliberate simulation and that nobody was running in their own skull. And what do you mean with pauses? Why would there be pauses when we talk?"

Jack_Simth

2018-04-29, 12:58 PM

"You don't have to worry too much in that regard. I know that hostility between players would be damaging," the other man in a woman's 'body' says.
Ephermial Recollection shakes her head slowly as she replies "It's not just other players where that will matter, in the end."

"Yeah? What makes you think that?," Bond responds, clearly not impression. She then catch herself: "Sorry, that came out the wrong way. I spend a lot of time trying to understand why I think what I think. So I'm curious what makes you convinced that we are in an out-of-control sim compared to a deliberate simulation and that nobody was running in their own skull. And what do you mean with pauses? Why would there be pauses when we talk?"
The lady answers "Keep in mind: Every word in 'highest current weighted guess' has a specific meaning as I'm using them. "Highest" means I'm just giving you the current top of the list right now, rather than going over all of them. "Current" is there as a free admission that things can and will change. "Weighted" is because I've got multiples, and I don't consider them all equally likely. "Guess" is there because I've very little in the way of firm evidence, even though I have some facts to support things. As an example of how this works: Your lack of pauses strongly indicates that you are being loosely controlled - you've got a set of orders that you're following, but they do not include specific phrasing; your specific choices of words are you own. I come to this conclusion because of what's not present: In a de Bergerac situation, when someone is being fed every word to speak, there are of necessity pauses in communication. In that scenario, the controlled isn't permitted to decide what to say (or isn't very good at it), and information must be relayed to the controlling party by some means, then reactions sent back to the controlled party by some means. Each of those steps introduces it's own form of delay, largely irrespective of how it's done. This would be different if I was talking with an image from Enter Image or something, but a controlled sim? It's very obvious your specific choices of words are your own, even though someone else may have given you a goal."

She continues "As to why a sim is part of the current highest weighted guess? It's a variation on Occam's Razor; a simulation requires the least in terms of breakthroughs compared to shuffling us all to a different dimension. ESPECIALLY if you were created prior to the event. Out-of-control vs. controlled is a basic approach to start with; in general, don't assume malice when simple incompetence can explain everything. As to not running in our own skulls even before the event... time manipulation was always a thing included in the game. It was rather obvious when the music I was playing in the background changed every time I walked into home base."

ThreadNecro5

2018-04-30, 09:17 PM

How about: It comes out like it was being done by a decent-sized group of musicians. I'm assuming that most the musicians in a symphony are - mechanically speaking - making "aid another" checks, so that the final result gets a very high bonus. If a "good" musician is an Expert-3 with Skill Focus, a +1 ability mod, max ranks, and a masterwork instrument, then the musician has a +12 Perform modifier. Taking ten, that'd be a 22. To get a 36, that'd need 7 Aid Another checks (8 for a 38), meaning a symphony of 8 or 9 performers (possibly counting a conductor).
Sounds fine for an explanation.

I did not know that that was a word. I'll have a rephrased statement of the ennui of aoens in this post so ignore the one in the previous post
To be fair it's a rare word. The only time I recall seeing it used myself was a book for Vampire the Requiem.

Oh yeah, Jack was reminding me about bestow curse only effecting people, and how in pf overlapping spell effects only get the effect from the last casting (regardless of how many casters are involved or how diverse the effects are). Any thoughts on this? If so, sounds like demilch average might need to watch out for positive energy polution.
Personally I don't like curses working like that, I can see why for some other effects but it doesn't feel right for curses to me. Also why would curses cancel out prior ones, that would let someone who is cursed just give themselves a really weak one to counteract the 'real' curse.

How does this interact with demiliches being able to house an additional 10 or so souls in their bodies?
I don't understand the question.

I think I recall you dropping material components on animate dead, else I've gotta soul trap something nearby and bleed that, maybe replicate my familiar to soul trap the copy.
You are correct.

Anywho, how many hydra heads is 152HD of skeletal hydra head?
Well, each head is a HD, but where are you getting that number from?

Also if this is about raising the severed heads as undead and making those into spawn, remember Animate Dead requires at least a mostly intact skeleton, so you can't essentially make undead snakes from hydra heads. What you could do is use a casting of air walk or fly to makeBeheaded (https://www.d20pfsrd.com/bestiary/monster-listings/undead/beheaded/) and kill them for spawn

Demilich average will take a peek at the goblin notice.

The spawn can read the notice over the shoulder of the outgunned local group who would be you 'competition' in this bounty.

Gobblin Extermination
The peepols of Northhew do promace that any whom does provide evidence of the eradication of any gobblins who hath been sighted around the Northhew meadery. About sefen (7) such creatures hath been seen. Succsess shall be rewarded with five-hundred (500) gold and one keg of fine mead. The gobblins hathe been seen in the meadery itself and in the surrounding woods.

As evidense of death provide the creatures heads to Gudmundur. Payment will be done there.

Should goblin numbers exeed indicated numbers additional payment may be negotiated. Beyond proof of death the slayer holds all rights towards the remainder of the boddies. Stolled goods held by the creatures are to be reported and returned to their owner.

After this the notice list basic directions to the meadery.

Finding a secluded corner of wilderness Jessie-Chris has his demiliches behead and heal the hydra a number of times, collecting a good heap of heads, which he animates into serpentine undeads, whom he then kills to turn into demiliches. While doing so he sends a contingent of fifteen demiliches to capture all the goblins for him to slaughter en mass to make still more demiliches. After completing his bloody work, Jessie-Chris takes flight with his swarm towards the town, making sure to fill all their soul gems with bug corpses along the way. After all, this little village was too small to contain him, and it wasn't like he was gonna slaughter all the villagers, after all, it's not like he was an evil abomination set on the destruction of humanity or a madman blindly growing an army of powerful and dangerous undeads. He knew where that line was... or at least he thinks he does...

A stream of white bony skulls, like some queer river of death, sail on through the woodlands, casually offering death to the bugs and animals with skeletal systems as they pass.

The handful of spawn reach and begin to comb the area around the meadery. Eventfully heading inside they find a handful of, not goblins, but gremins making off with some alcohol in the storeroom.

Seeing the probable targets the spawn chase them down, grab the creatures arms in their jaws, and begin flying the eight of them back to you, barring a mite that escapes riding a giant wasp.

Aftermath

Despite his inability to actually experienc cold, Chase were feeling a creeping chill. Had he created a vast number of beings that had an inbuilt mechanism that not only analyzed and suppressed thoughts as they were being created but also forcibly created thoughts and urges if they didn't come naturally? Worse he had created himself with that mechanism. He had been in this place for what, half a day?, and he had already unwittingly created a dystopia. First priority were going to remedy this ginourmous mistake.

"Alright, let's explore the possibility that there's a mental overlay. IIf so the order of business is to verify that this is the case, understand the specifics, understand how a fix to the situation could be like and then implement it. Make a lesser simulacrum and compare that to the the greater ones. If we understand this right it should be like me and thus want to be alive, so this is unambiguously a good act, and since we share goals he will help us out in figuring this out. Run some test for mental processing power and measure the speed. The overlay would need to inspect thoughts to know which to suppress, which would take time, so we would predict that the lesser sim would finish quicker. Also test which areas the lesser sim's mind allows him to explore compared to the greater. Further, ask other sims what I asked you and through that test if the reason that the overlay let those past is that I specifically brought it up or if it's just the phrasing it as distant academic questions. And if you think of more tests go ahead with those as well."[/spoiler]

"We will begin immediately". replies one of your simulacrums.

Meanwhile another simulacrum gets back to you on details of one of the creatures in the north.

"The big one, it's some manner of ice based creature. BAB measures plus thirty-one. Not an elemental but looks similar. It's half buried and dormant at the moment. The surrounding winds are greater than the rest so I believe we're dealing with an aura. Torso is humanoid with no fancy extras. Head is antlered and fanged, otherwise humanoid. We guess it flies going by it's apparent relation to common wendigo".

[QUOTE=Sønderjye;23027813]Research and Development
In between the item creation he'll use magic to amplify his knowledge of the magic and to study the simulacrum spell.

Chase seeks to understand how the control mechanism of simulacrum works. Using Glimpse of The Akashic and Moment of Prescience to take 10 on knowledge(Arcana) for 96, and once more to learn in which other ways the clone is different from the original, and how the original having two conciousnesses is affecting them.

The Simulacrum is a perfect copy of the creator at the time of creation with their thought process modified to prioritise considering their creator their master and their orders as above the Simulacrum's own desires, as well as being unable to find purpose to work against their creator. Beyond this they are otherwise entirely their own individuals.

Beyond the mental changes required the body of a Simulacrum is half formed of illusion, the origin of the divide in power compared to the original. The duplicate's body is reminiscent of a construct in nature, the fusion of the statue to act as a template to a being and illusion to fill whatever isn't there means the result is a perfect duplicate, and would even possess what would be a soul were the creature more than a thinking puppet. By the same fragile nature that means it cannot heal naturally, a Simulacrum immediately is undone one sufficiently damaged, destroying it in its totality.

As to these specific Simulacra their replica consciousness is purely that of Scourge, the Magic Jar supressing the mandragora's mind.

[b]Mausoleum
"Why would they be tormented by living for aeons? Or are there a physical thing called ennui of aeons?"
"Imagine if you will. You die. You wake on the Necropolis. You meet your ancestors, share stories, talk with the other dead, achieve whatever it is you wanted in life or it's closest equivalent in death, your own descendants trickle in with stories of those living you left behind. It all sounds nice enough yes? It is, but then what when you have done all you ever wanted and fulfilled any new desires in death? The artist achieves magnum opus, the warrior perfects their bladework to their limits, the smith crafted a blade that will appear in future legend. The tales of the living are of nobody you care for, the mortal world you left behind no longer what you knew. There is nothing left you want. You are jaded, been there done that. Seen it all".

"It is not a hard stretch then to decide all positive experience you have left is in your memories, yes"?

"Why do the living need it more? Can't they just be created with the knowledge of those before them?"
"That would require remaking every intelligent being from nothing. Did your parents never have a certain talk with you and think the servants of the gods hand craft each and every one of you?" the outsider seems to joke without changing its tone.

Finishing of the wall it vanishes, as if sucked into the sands, before emerging from the opposite side.

"So what can happen to you after you died? You make it sound like you can still die after dying, or worse?"
"The soul dies almost as easily as the body. Same as killing a creature without a body-soul distinction, it is just gone. Barring activity from a deity or like there is no future or coming back. By the standards of some there are worse fates. The Foundry for instance crafts souls into raw material to fill it's needs, usually with enough will remaining to know its fate".

"Also, what even is a soul? Some kind of energy? It sounds like your memories are stored in it but what else?"
"Many have took to studying the nature of the soul and there are still great mysteries. I am no expert. It holds thought yet when part of a mortal body an organ known as the brain usually also holds relation to thought and memory too. Yet a brain is not some container for the soul, for not all things with souls have such an organ or equivalent. What I do know is that no entity is responsible in their creation, yet something is for creation from nothing is impossible. The nature of the soul is akin to magic and magic is akin to the soul yet the truth of these statements is unknown as is the importance of the distinction, if any.

Sønderjye

2018-05-01, 02:14 PM

Aftermath

Scourge nods as the sim vanishes.

He attention then swaps to the incomming report, all too happy to divert his attention of his accidental mass slavery.

'Thirty One!', he shouts in disbelief: 'That's..'

'Yes, it's higher than Cthulhu', the simulacrum helpfully contribute, not bothering to hide the smugness in it's voice. The nasty horror god had been one of the toughest raids Chase had been part of back in Genesis. 'Although Cthulhu were an aberation so with only 3/4 bab progression so it might not be a fully fair comparison, depending on creature type. You should come and blow that top tier divination spell on it.'

Chase felt torn. On one hand it was really convinient that the sims had his memories and thoughts. On the other it was utterly unnerving that it could predict what he was going to say before he knew himself.

'Alright,' he send, holding a hand out ready to be ported to the site: 'Tell the scouts to pick up local legends and impressions from the natives, and tell the diviners to continue looking for other combatants, for now limiting the search to our current plane. Ideally in the format of a list sorted by likely challenge rating.'

Once he has been teleported to the location he uses draws on the psionic energies of his dorje to learn about the possible contender

Using the dorje of Metafaculty (https://www.d20pfsrd.com/psionics-unleashed/psionic-powers/m/metafaculty)fueled by spell slots as usual.

Research and Development

Chase continues researching and broadening his knowledge about the spell. It was all well and good that the spell changed the thought process but the question was how. Was it a one time change or was it like an automatic agent that constantly suppressed 'disloyal' thoughts? Did it change the brain chemistry such that the pleasure chemicals were released when loyal behaviour and thoughts were enacted? Or was it more of a change in personality?

Then there was the whole questions abut soul. The intel from the afterlife team seemed to imply that knowledge and personality were stored in the soul, however it still hadn't been confirmed if this information only were in the soul, was transfered from the brain to the soul upon death or out of body magic, or if it existed both in the brain and soul simultaneously. He'd have to conduct some experiments.

'Have somebody use Magic Jar and tell me the result', he sends to the Network. If the spell worked for the simulacrums they would either have to have a soul or some kind of magic equivalent. She frowns. No. That was under the assumption that the fluff text accurately described what was going on and that conciousness wasn't a separate thing from body and soul. Alas, that would have to wait until later.

Mausoleum

"It is not a hard stretch then to decide all positive experience you have left is in your memories, yes"?

The simulacrum's kneejerk reaction is to loudly proclaim it's disagreement but she managed to stop itself before the words travel past her lips. She wasn't here to persuade the gravedigger, she was here to gather information.

"Sure", she says with a non-commital shrug.

"That would require remaking every intelligent being from nothing. Did your parents never have a certain talk with you and think the servants of the gods hand craft each and every one of you?"

"The gods make the living, right? Why not make them so they inhereted the memories of their parents and their parents instead of needing you to teach them?"

"The soul dies almost as easily as the body. Same as killing a creature without a body-soul distinction, it is just gone. Barring activity from a deity or like there is no future or coming back. By the standards of some there are worse fates. The Foundry for instance crafts souls into raw material to fill it's needs, usually with enough will remaining to know its fate".

"So just to be sure that I understand this correctly. Souls don't have anything permanent over them and can be destroyed as easily as a body can?". That was new. In most earthen belief systems the soul was at least somewhat indestructible.

"What's the Foundry? And what is the experience of a soul if it is crafted into an item? Which other worse fates exist?"

"Many have took to studying the nature of the soul and there are still great mysteries. I am no expert. It holds thought yet when part of a mortal body an organ known as the brain usually also holds relation to thought and memory too. Yet a brain is not some container for the soul, for not all things with souls have such an organ or equivalent. What I do know is that no entity is responsible in their creation, yet something is for creation from nothing is impossible. The nature of the soul is akin to magic and magic is akin to the soul yet the truth of these statements is unknown as is the importance of the distinction, if any.

"Does souls work without a body? Is the mind a seperate thing or do people travel using their soul when they travel outside of their body?"

Simulacrum in the mountains

Bond was finding herself relax. Even if she didn't find herself agreeing with the conclussions that Jack were comming to there was a certain familiarity in the way that he came to his conclussions. Many of Chase's high school friends had been going through the same exercises

"You are creating a false dichotomy between loosely controlled or tightly but remotely controlled. I could also simply be acting on my own will or another being could be micromanaging me."

"Regardless I'm happy that I found you. I'm working under the assumption that all of this is real until I think of a way to test otherwise, and I've been looking for other players. You see, back in Genesis there was this bug after I retrained the Souldrinker class in which my soul was bound one of the Four Horsemen. The mechanical effects were insignificant so I never bothered filing a support ticket. Now though, an god of capital Evil has a claim on my soul and I think I need help to deal with that. You're in?"

TN5, Jack seems to think that time magic in game changed how much time had passed in the real world. IE. time stop would actually stop magic in the real world and being on a double time speed plane meant that you only spend half the time in the real world.
I'm holding on with the discussion of different ideas until I get the question to the above because if they had technology that could alter perception like that, that means that the world is significantly different than today. Not a bad thing, just something that makes it more likely that we could be in a simulation from earth.

Jack_Simth

2018-05-01, 08:44 PM

Simulacrum in the mountains

Bond was finding herself relax. Even if she didn't find herself agreeing with the conclussions that Jack were comming to there was a certain familiarity in the way that he came to his conclussions. Many of Chase's high school friends had been going through the same exercises

"You are creating a false dichotomy between loosely controlled or tightly but remotely controlled. I could also simply be acting on my own will or another being could be micromanaging me."

"Regardless I'm happy that I found you. I'm working under the assumption that all of this is real until I think of a way to test otherwise, and I've been looking for other players. You see, back in Genesis there was this bug after I retrained the Souldrinker class in which my soul was bound one of the Four Horsemen. The mechanical effects were insignificant so I never bothered filing a support ticket. Now though, an god of capital Evil has a claim on my soul and I think I need help to deal with that. You're in?"

TN5, Jack seems to think that time magic in game changed how much time had passed in the real world. IE. time stop would actually stop magic in the real world and being on a double time speed plane meant that you only spend half the time in the real world.
I'm holding on with the discussion of different ideas until I get the question to the above because if they had technology that could alter perception like that, that means that the world is significantly different than today. Not a bad thing, just something that makes it more likely that we could be in a simulation from earth.
The Jack in the ghost chuckles "It's less a dichotomy and more me defining my terms as I'm using them so others have a chance at understanding them. You're not the first to get confused by that. For instance: Different cameras have different frequency ranges of light that they register as specific colors; if I were to say 'anything with a longer wavelength of 650 nanometers or longer will register as red to this camera', I'm in no way negating that there could be a 649 nanometer wavelength photon, nor that there could be a 200 nanometer photon, just that that camera will not register them as 'red'. Hence being wordy - you've got some set of orders, which you must obey. And you are; you're controlled. However: Those orders do not include specific phrasing of responses to what I say. I call that 'loosely controlled' as opposed to 'tightly controlled'. I'm well aware one mostly-loose controller might interject a specific phrase here and there, or a tight controller might say something along the lines of 'fill in details as needed', and then of course there's situations where a person is merely charmed, or acting under a normal sense of loyalty, or whatever. Not that it matters too much. You do have a decided free will deficit compared to most folks, either way. Still, I've got you categorized as a 'folk' for now."

He continues "As to the problem... eh, sounds interesting. If nothing else a good Clone spell will probably prevent your original from entering whatever path applies, and I've got more persistent methods available if needed. Then of course there's figuring out how to actually break that bond... what details do you have so far? Oh, and is there perhaps a more comfortable place for us to be having this discussion than the side of a mountain?"

Well... basically, we've all made some set of assumptions about the game prior to the event - it's necessary for making back-stories and things, after all - and different sets of assumptions lead to different conclusions. But yes, I was running under the assumption that spells, by and large, worked as they're listed. Time manipulation goes nicely with the blatant impossibility of a high-immersion international, popular game being run by a single server.

ThreadNecro5

2018-05-02, 04:16 PM

Aftermath

Scourge nods as the sim vanishes.

He attention then swaps to the incomming report, all too happy to divert his attention of his accidental mass slavery.

'Thirty One!', he shouts in disbelief: 'That's..'

'Yes, it's higher than Cthulhu', the simulacrum helpfully contribute, not bothering to hide the smugness in it's voice. The nasty horror god had been one of the toughest raids Chase had been part of back in Genesis. 'Although Cthulhu were an aberation so with only 3/4 bab progression so it might not be a fully fair comparison, depending on creature type. You should come and blow that top tier divination spell on it.'

Chase felt torn. On one hand it was really convinient that the sims had his memories and thoughts. On the other it was utterly unnerving that it could predict what he was going to say before he knew himself.

'Alright,' he send, holding a hand out ready to be ported to the site: 'Tell the scouts to pick up local legends and impressions from the natives, and tell the diviners to continue looking for other combatants, for now limiting the search to our current plane. Ideally in the format of a list sorted by likely challenge rating.'

"This will take a few minutes. We'll get it back to you." comes the reply.

Once he has been teleported to the location he uses draws on the psionic energies of his dorje to learn about the possible contender

Using the dorje of Metafaculty (https://www.d20pfsrd.com/psionics-unleashed/psionic-powers/m/metafaculty)fueled by spell slots as usual.

Oddly two names and identities are given.

Its name, race, alignment, and character class.

Anuniaq; Snow Elf Wendigo; soul attributed to Evil/Kalgja Ornulfdottir; Frost Giant; Soul attributed to Good.
Very Powerful/High in power
Both are located in Orsacra
No notable possessions.
No recant activity

The creature sits as described, a great antlered humanoid of ice that sits half-buried in the snow. notably it is mostly the blue ice from within a glacier and splotchy near-purple patches litter it's body, one particularly prominent one in the centre of the chest.

Research and Development

Chase continues researching and broadening his knowledge about the spell. It was all well and good that the spell changed the thought process but the question was how. Was it a one time change or was it like an automatic agent that constantly suppressed 'disloyal' thoughts? Did it change the brain chemistry such that the pleasure chemicals were released when loyal behaviour and thoughts were enacted? Or was it more of a change in personality?

Then there was the whole questions abut soul. The intel from the afterlife team seemed to imply that knowledge and personality were stored in the soul, however it still hadn't been confirmed if this information only were in the soul, was transfered from the brain to the soul upon death or out of body magic, or if it existed both in the brain and soul simultaneously. He'd have to conduct some experiments.

'Have somebody use Magic Jar and tell me the result', he sends to the Network. If the spell worked for the simulacrums they would either have to have a soul or some kind of magic equivalent. She frowns. No. That was under the assumption that the fluff text accurately described what was going on and that conciousness wasn't a separate thing from body and soul. Alas, that would have to wait until later.
"Will do".

A moment later one of your Simulacrums replies back. "The lesser Simulacrum has pointed out on questioning that as it's brain is based on yours and so may accidently cause bias in the examination as one it knows your goals and motivations it will likely work towards those anyway due to you being the best informed instance of itself".

Mausoleum
"The gods make the living, right? Why not make them so they inhereted the memories of their parents and their parents instead of needing you to teach them?"
"No. The gods create the first few thousand of something but after that populating is their own concern. Originally they based things off themselves I suppose. If they could start with nothing but base drives and their own will their creations not meant as direct servants could too. Some fay and the wrenches even do as you suggest, and a dragon's ego is at least partly nature than nurture".

"Also you assume all beings of the world were intentional creations and that all were created as was intended and without flaw".

"So just to be sure that I understand this correctly. Souls don't have anything permanent over them and can be destroyed as easily as a body can?". That was new. In most earthen belief systems the soul was at least somewhat indestructible.
"You are unfortunately correct".

"What's the Foundry? And what is the experience of a soul if it is crafted into an item? Which other worse fates exist?"
The plane of Geiirlefur, god of greed, vice, exploitation." The outsider's tone turns tinted with cold anger on mentioning the deity.

"Usually they are broken down or meted into raw material but sometimes other methods are used. That at least is what I am told, obviously such souls cannot escape here. They may also be directly worked into their desired end; Crushed and allowed with metal, perhaps flensed and stretched into shape or just compacted into flooring".

"Does souls work without a body? Is the mind a seperate thing or do people travel using their soul when they travel outside of their body?"
"Yes, some creatures, mostly undead, are capable of existing as bodiless souls. The mind typically travels with the soul but there are rare exceptions, the soul is at least dominant. The mind existing as part of the soul is likely true in any case. For example in the notes of a necromancer I read accounts of when a sufficiently complex undead is risen without returning the original soul the newborn creature develops it's own, even if the brain of the original creature is intact that fails to colour the new creatures mind. This suggests the mind and soul are one I believe.

TN5, Jack seems to think that time magic in game changed how much time had passed in the real world. IE. time stop would actually stop magic in the real world and being on a double time speed plane meant that you only spend half the time in the real world.
I'm holding on with the discussion of different ideas until I get the question to the above because if they had technology that could alter perception like that, that means that the world is significantly different than today. Not a bad thing, just something that makes it more likely that we could be in a simulation from earth.
I'd say there wouldn't be perception-of-time shifting tech, but effects would probably be handled as an AOE slow/stun/rewind ability. There'd be more restrictions than there would be with the game real as in a game the devs would gave to take measures to avoid griefers abusing it. With such measures gone time manipulation would be slightly better or at least more flexible (as would some other effects now that they aren't limited by programming).

Sønderjye

2018-05-02, 06:09 PM

Aftermath

I'd like to know the class as well. I think that levels in a monster class counts as well.

Powerful isn't one of the categories. Are they both very high or are the just high?

Edit:

Or are you saying that the second being don't only have Frost Giant levels and the first one is an elf with a Wendigo Class? If so what's a wendigo class?

Sense motive to learn bab: 53
Knowledge(whatever) to learn useful details: 47
Knowledge(Arcana) to identify spell effects/spells: 47.
Remember that Chase has a permanent arcane sight running. Does that reveal anything?

Research and Development

"The lesser Simulacrum has pointed out on questioning that as it's brain is based on yours and so may accidently cause bias in the examination as one it knows your goals and motivations it will likely work towards those anyway due to you being the best informed instance of itself"

Scourge makes hand-to-forehead connection and sighs. Of course it would. And of course it would try to be clever in a situation in which he was being questioned.

'That's fine', she sends back: 'Just compare the results to see if what things he's able to think about that others aren't. And also let him pick a name, it's the least we can do.'

Does more spell research answer any of the questions I asked in the prior post?

Mausoleum

"Also you assume all beings of the world were intentional creations and that all were created as was intended and without flaw"

"Why would they make things accidentally and why not correct for mistakes? Why have people starve back at the material plane?"

"Usually they are broken down or meted into raw material but sometimes other methods are used. That at least is what I am told, obviously such souls cannot escape here. They may also be directly worked into their desired end; Crushed and allowed with metal, perhaps flensed and stretched into shape or just compacted into flooring"

The sims mouth gradually opened more by the word. In a world in which souls could exist potentially forever then soul mutalation was probably one of the vilest things imaginable. We were talking potentially endless torment "Are they aware?", she asks with a small voice: "After they have been crafted I mean?"

"Tell me more about Geiirlefur."

Simulacrum at the mountain

Bond frowns at the long winded answer. Jack had in a roundabout way avoiding commenting on the two specific options he had suggested, namely that he didn't have any orders whatsoever or that something was in his head controlling his every word. No matter.

Still, I've got you categorized as a 'folk' for now."

"I'm flattered", Bond comments drily.

"As to the problem... eh, sounds interesting. If nothing else a good Clone spell will probably prevent your original from entering whatever path applies, and I've got more persistent methods available if needed. Then of course there's figuring out how to actually break that bond... what details do you have so far? Oh, and is there perhaps a more comfortable place for us to be having this discussion than the side of a mountain?"

"Sure, follow me," Bond says as he takes off and flies east. "We have a base hidden not too far from here. And while we're on our way let me fill you in on the details."

"It wouldn't be a problem if we know for sure that all of the mechanics work the same but we don't and we might encounter something that somehow manages to get around the safeguards. The details though. It's called of the locust and if we are to trust the divination spells it's a insect swarm god of evil, destruction, decay, entropy, and unity. It has more than 40 levels of stuff my mind couldn't quite comprehend. It's trapped somewhere but is doing attempts to escape. It seeks to end the world and is at least influencing 10 different planes."

"Also, I don't think that this is a simulation from Earth. With the current technology this just isn't possible. I am finding it more likely that earth itself were a simulation and that we are data that were copied over for something else."

Jack_Simth

2018-05-02, 09:25 PM

Simulacrum at the mountain[/B]

Bond frowns at the long winded answer. Jack had in a roundabout way avoiding commenting on the two specific options he had suggested, namely that he didn't have any orders whatsoever or that something was in his head controlling his every word. No matter.

"I'm flattered", Bond comments drily.

"Sure, follow me," Bond says as he takes off and flies east. "We have a base hidden not too far from here. And while we're on our way let me fill you in on the details."

"It wouldn't be a problem if we know for sure that all of the mechanics work the same but we don't and we might encounter something that somehow manages to get around the safeguards. The details though. It's called of the locust and if we are to trust the divination spells it's a insect swarm god of evil, destruction, decay, entropy, and unity. It has more than 40 levels of stuff my mind couldn't quite comprehend. It's trapped somewhere but is doing attempts to escape. It seeks to end the world and is at least influencing 10 different planes."

"Also, I don't think that this is a simulation from Earth. With the current technology this just isn't possible. I am finding it more likely that earth itself were a simulation and that we are data that were copied over for something else."

The corrupted nature spirit flies after Bond at a nice clip, and explains along the way "The game was at least two kinds of impossible, probably more. From the - to quote an article - 'Shockingly accurate translation software' - which doesn't appear to have been duplicated or used for any purpose outside the game, despite how valuable such a thing would be - to the fact that it was running a highly popular, world-wide MMO from a single server. Nobody does that, for four big reasons: One, it's a lot cheaper to spread the load between multiple servers than it is to make one server that can handle all of it. Two: It's a lot cheaper to spread the bandwidth between multiple data centers than it is to get one ginormous connection for a single location. Three: When you've got several servers, if one of them goes down for any reason the others can pick up the slack mostly transparently; things are a lot more reliable that way. Four: Latency: Forget what your ISP says about your speed - there's still a minimum time it takes a data packet to go a given distance, so if you've got several servers spread out across the globe you can better service any given customer simply by routing them to the closest running server. They didn't do that. Yet the game was built on a single server, in one location, but didn't have bandwidth or latency problems for customers around the globe. Something weird was always going on, any which way you slice it. Then there's you. You're a copy, but you've got memories of the original. If you were made before the event, then whatever caused the event had to have some form of access to your original's memories. Could both worlds be sims? Well, it was never truly proven that Earth wasn't a sim; fundamentally, that's not a provable negative: Any evidence against it being a simulation could simply be something that the simulation accounted for. At best, someone might be able to demonstrate that a given world is a simulation... but there's enough nutty things in physics anyway that such a thing might easily get passed off as a strange natural law unless it's particularly ... upfront about what it was. And then it has to be repeatable, or nearly everyone will think it's fraudulent. Honestly, I'm mostly worried that someone made a breakthrough in quantum computing, cheated on the world development by throwing a good procedural generator and way too much processing power at the problem, cheated on bandwidth by making the end-user unit quantum entangled and read the user's mind while running, and we're now finding out the hard way that a quantum computer sometimes answers the query before it's asked... resulting in us running in a much higher quality procedurally generated world in a literal 0-time simulation at the moment of shutdown. Because if that's the case, there is no escape, and there will be no rescue; after ten millenia our time, it will still be 0 seconds after the event, so nobody will ever find out it happened."

Sønderjye

2018-05-03, 03:55 PM

Jack_Simth

2018-05-03, 07:19 PM

The bits about quantum computing I read in an old real-world news article. It requires a significant breakthrough to make use of it (there's severe measurement problems in reading the quantum bits, and parallel channels tend to interfere with each other), but it was noted in the article that occasionally their test bit spat out the answer before the query properly reached it - but as they were dealing with photons over short distances, the timeframe on that was measured in "picoseconds"). But Quantum Entanglement is a demonstrated effect that could potentially be used for communications, quantum computers are actively in development, and the network things are VERY real - seriously, I work with some aspects of that for a living... the bits about "shockingly accurate translation", "single server" and "procedurally generated world" are from the recruitment teaser. Not having latency problems is an extrapolation based on the game being internationally popular: it wouldn't if someone on the opposite side of the globe needed to wait a full second to hear what the other player just said. OK, yes, I took liberties on the mind-reading guess (but for a Sim to have some of the original's memories, the mind must be read in some manner) and on the translation software not being sold elsewhere... but it would be crazy-valuable, would be easy for me to miss an artical, and I did have my toon phrase the mind-reading as a fear that it was developed and happened that way. Compared to shifting folk's souls to a different dimension and creating super-powerful bodies for them, it requires significantly/?refresh=0 less breakthroughs for us to be caught in a simulation (Quantum computing, Mind reading, and quantum entanglement breakthrough [all things in currently being researched by serious folks] vs... dimensional travel, soul transfer, body creation, and all the stuff that came with the guilds during the event ... which is a lot less on current research tables). The "this is a simulation" guess is the Occam's Razor choice. "I haven't been let out by my spouse yet" tells me I'm not really running on my own brain now (which also adds support for not running on my own brain under some circumstances previously), the sim having a personality adds support for some form of mind reading (which also suggests it was possible before). There's a lot of conjecture there, granted.... but there's also a reason for "current highest-weighted guess"

Edit: Oh yes, and with what such tech could be used for ... well, "running a game" is one of the better choices. It could also be used to, say, break all current encryption and hijack a bazillion people's bank accounts. A person could flood the Bitcoin / Etherium / other cryptocurrency market. While yes, there's a lot of endeavors that it would benefit, such a thing in the wild would have a very rough adjustment period (adjustment would happen, mind, but it would be a very painful transition). Using it to make a game is one of the kinder things someone keeping it under their hat could do with it, which in turn supports the "accident" theory of how we got here. But again: Lots of supposition based on insufficient data.

ThreadNecro5

2018-05-04, 04:40 PM

TN, would you mind verifying what Jack's saying about how the old world works. I am finding his assumptions to be fairly reasonable but they do make it so the setting was very different technology wise than what I was anticipating(or at least the Genesis creators had that). Also let's a lot of credibility to the idea that we are being simulated by someone on earth.

So the quantum computing idea is quite reasonable. This is all supposed happening in a very near future scenario and a look on Wikipedia says that very basic ones already exist and they should be in proper use in five years or so.

With how the single server gets brought up I think there may be some misunderstanding. I'm meaning server like, to use World of Warcraft as an example, 'there is a player population limit on each server', not that one server (as in the computer) ran everything. I was trying to say literally all players were on the singular map using the term for 'instance of the game world you are on' in one of the two MMOs I have seriously played used, while at the same time I noticed the term is used identically in Ark, leaving me to assume that is the common term.

Jack_Simth

2018-05-04, 07:31 PM

So the quantum computing idea is quite reasonable. This is all supposed happening in a very near future scenario and a look on Wikipedia says that very basic ones already exist and they should be in proper use in five years or so.

With how the single server gets brought up I think there may be some misunderstanding. I'm meaning server like, to use World of Warcraft as an example, 'there is a player population limit on each server', not that one server (as in the computer) ran everything. I was trying to say literally all players were on the singular map using the term for 'instance of the game world you are on' in one of the two MMOs I have seriously played used, while at the same time I noticed the term is used identically in Ark, leaving me to assume that is the common term.

... the terms are used the same way because any given physical machine requires essentially instant access to all game objects that might potentially interact with any game object ruled by that physical machine (the more simulation in the game, the more true this is; the more abstract the game, the less: if you've got a physics engine that must react in real time to simulate a length of chain, any latency over 1 ms is a serious problem; contrawise, an tank game where the only physics interactions are "did I bump into the other guy?" and "Did my shot hit?" can deal with more latency... but those have a lot less need to spread out, as there's less data transmission and less computation to do). With a lot of work, you can have several physical machines in very close proximity and get them to meet the necessary criteria to run a physics engine in a single game instance... but you're essentially building a Beowulf Cluster when doing it, and they must be in immediate physical proximity on a super high end network that's very physically small for you to actually pull it off. As a consequence, in the super majority of cases, any given game instance will be on one physical machine. In the few cases where they're not, all machines involved in the game instance will be in the same facility. There simply isn't a way around that, at least for now. This might change when quantum entangled data connections become a thing, if they ever do (one needs to solve particle decay before you can shuffle the entangled electrons around a meaningful distance to use them as a communications medium; and that's not a given), but as long as you're stuck with Einstein's speed-of-light data transmission limit? It's an unbreakable rule. There's a reason I took "single server" to mean "single server" in both senses of the term. If a game has a strong enough physics engine that someone can carve a rock into an arbitrary shape and roll it down a hill to watch how it bounces... anyone who can see that rock needs to be connected to that same machine. There's no other way to do it.

drack

2018-05-06, 08:13 AM

OOC
Personally I don't like curses working like that, I can see why for some other effects but it doesn't feel right for curses to me. Also why would curses cancel out prior ones, that would let someone who is cursed just give themselves a really weak one to counteract the 'real' curse.
Agreed. What about curses on inanimate objects? (cursed well water, cursed stone, cursed coin) I confess I'm half and half. Half of me says that in D&D such items are generally magic items that happen to have disadvantaged effects. The other half says that it's still in line with curses. The spell itself targets a creature touched.

I don't understand the question.
No worries, if it was one curse/creature it had occurred to me that demiliches can carry eight other souls with them at any time, which can have themselves been cursed.

Well, each head is a HD, but where are you getting that number from?

Also if this is about raising the severed heads as undead and making those into spawn, remember Animate Dead requires at least a mostly intact skeleton, so you can't essentially make undead snakes from hydra heads. What you could do is use a casting of air walk or fly to makeBeheaded (https://www.d20pfsrd.com/bestiary/monster-listings/undead/beheaded/) and kill them for spawn
Bah... you're right. While a method to get about as many comes to mind, lets shelve it for now.

Upon noticing they're gremlins (through the telepathy), Jessie-chris will have the average demiliches return empty handed. Go figure when there's only seven of them they wouldn't be real goblins...

Making sure his demiliches are neutered of their positive energy auras and all look properly average, he'll continue heading towards the city, making the best use of his time that he can until he can re-prepare spells.

ThreadNecro5

2018-05-09, 02:35 PM

Upon noticing they're gremlins (through the telepathy), Jessie-chris will have the average demiliches return empty handed. Go figure when there's only seven of them they wouldn't be real goblins...

Making sure his demiliches are neutered of their positive energy auras and all look properly average, he'll continue heading towards the city, making the best use of his time that he can until he can re-prepare spells.

Some Time and a Bear Later:
I think I recall your character getting directions to town but can't find where I said it. If not it can be assumed you flew up and observed the direction or something to that effect.

I'd also assume you are still producing spawn when able so assume you get another.
The path to the nearest large settlement passes without incident, your present company being unnoticed and you yourself having an appearance that most would stand well back from.

Civilisation once again comes into view as you follow the arterial paths, those closer to the decent sized walled town of better quality and maintenance. Apart from a few stone buildings and tents the rest of the settlement is out of view. At present the gates are closed with a tower to each side equipped with crossbowmen, or rather once has two crossbowmen and the other has a giant with a small ballista in their arms. The gates are hardwood and iron and each is equipped with a sturdy knocker fashioned on adorned but bright and untarnished metal, one the size of a large dumbbell and the other more reasonably proportioned.

Agreed. What about curses on inanimate objects? (cursed well water, cursed stone, cursed coin) I confess I'm half and half. Half of me says that in D&D such items are generally magic items that happen to have disadvantaged effects. The other half says that it's still in line with curses. The spell itself targets a creature touched.
I'd say no on bestow curse effecting non-creatures. Cursed items are generally made as per any magic item (I think, there's crafting cursed items rules but I forget them) while as for cursed locations you have Curse Terrain (https://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic/all-spells/c/curse-terrain/) and Cursed Earth (https://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic/all-spells/c/cursed-earth/).

No worries, if it was one curse/creature it had occurred to me that demiliches can carry eight other souls with them at any time, which can have themselves been cursed.
Those curses wouldn't effect the spawn, only the trapped souls.

... the terms are used the same way because any given physical machine requires essentially instant access to all game objects that might potentially interact with any game object ruled by that physical machine (the more simulation in the game, the more true this is; the more abstract the game, the less: if you've got a physics engine that must react in real time to simulate a length of chain, any latency over 1 ms is a serious problem; contrawise, an tank game where the only physics interactions are "did I bump into the other guy?" and "Did my shot hit?" can deal with more latency... but those have a lot less need to spread out, as there's less data transmission and less computation to do). With a lot of work, you can have several physical machines in very close proximity and get them to meet the necessary criteria to run a physics engine in a single game instance... but you're essentially building a Beowulf Cluster when doing it, and they must be in immediate physical proximity on a super high end network that's very physically small for you to actually pull it off. As a consequence, in the super majority of cases, any given game instance will be on one physical machine. In the few cases where they're not, all machines involved in the game instance will be in the same facility. There simply isn't a way around that, at least for now. This might change when quantum entangled data connections become a thing, if they ever do (one needs to solve particle decay before you can shuffle the entangled electrons around a meaningful distance to use them as a communications medium; and that's not a given), but as long as you're stuck with Einstein's speed-of-light data transmission limit? It's an unbreakable rule. There's a reason I took "single server" to mean "single server" in both senses of the term. If a game has a strong enough physics engine that someone can carve a rock into an arbitrary shape and roll it down a hill to watch how it bounces... anyone who can see that rock needs to be connected to that same machine. There's no other way to do it.
As is no doubt apparent by now this is not by area of expertise.

I guess I my as well ask, on the whole what explanation would those reading this prefer to run with? Everyone knows where their own suspension of disbelief lies after all

Jack_Simth

2018-05-09, 05:14 PM

I'm just hoping you pick something and run with it, basically. It's less that I have a preference, and more that we've got a mystery on our hands that I'm hoping to solve to my own satisfaction. Item A gives weight to Situation Fragment A, Item B gives weight to Situation Fragment B (neither would paint the entire situation of themselves, just certain fragments of it), and the two are mutually exclusive. I'm presuming you've got an answer in the back of your head for "what happened?" (which may not match A or B at all). I don't expect to ever have actual proof as to what occurred. However, Investigating requires consistent data to have a meaningful chance of success. That just requires you pick something and run with it. Am I making sense? I don't always.

Sønderjye

2018-05-10, 02:30 AM

Jack_Simth

2018-05-10, 07:01 AM

Neither explanation would break immersion for me. The high technology version would make the world we came from more removed from the one I know but that isn't a bad thing. I second Jack's oppinion - pick one and we'll go with it.

Also, you might have missed my responds to previous scenes.

This may sound weird, but I'm not assuming the world we came from had any higher technology than the real world - at least, in general. There's a reason I phrased it as "fewest breakthroughs needed" - Quantum Computers are a thing that exists right now... but at present they're close to useless. They can't hold data for long, there's some very sharp limits on the number of q-bits they can work with, and so on. In order for quantum computing to become mainstream, breakthroughs are required (the current highest factored number for a quantum computer is 291,311, apparently (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Integer_factorization_records#Records_for_efforts_ by_quantum_computers), while traditional computing has gotten 232 digit numbers (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Integer_factorization_records#Numbers_of_a_general _form)... but still not enough to crack current-standard security certificates).

If one person made a few breakthroughs, that person could become very rich very easily by sharing. However... making quantum computers useful and common would do a lot of Very Bad Things to current society (the ability to break any current encryption - well, except the One-Time-Pad, but that's unusable in about 99.99% of situations - would do seriously nasty things to communications, banking, and security for example). If the creator recognized that and had a conscience, the creator might very well keep it under his hat. Of course, research is expensive, and he might still want to make money off of it. Hence a game...

ThreadNecro5

2018-05-11, 04:40 PM

It seems reasonable to assume that quantum computers are in use. While not available to the public, banks and governments make use of them while some businesses usually use slightly older lower spec models.

Genesis was ran on a few computers with the effect of a seamless world created by casing times, spell effects, and areas of relatively empty and uninteresting sea, all acting to separate maps consisting of a landmass and surrounding seas and skies. This allowed for less stress on the servers than truly one massive map would cause with no real difference to the untrained eye. Additionally the computers used were better than most as the billionaire who funded the game pulled some strings. Assume something I lack the knowledge to describe exists to eliminate over ninety percent of any latency.

A couple of other minor things that seem reasonable is that to assist with funding the game would show a short add when on the 'wait X seconds to respawn' screen, and that the translation tech that was revolutionised also became sold in many forms. My thoughts would be as a 'striped down' version for mobile devices and better/complete versions available elsewhere. Google is probably involved in the licencing, incorporating the tech into some of their services.

Also, you might have missed my responds to previous scenes.

Sorry, I did miss a post. I doubt I will have the time to reply today however. Things were slower than usual as I had to research a few things for the other threads

Jack_Simth

2018-05-11, 09:50 PM

While traveling, the man in a woman's ... well, not quite 'body' ... considers, and adds "Well, unless the simulation has some exit condition, in which case we'll be subject to sudden existence failure if it's ever met. But given the general intent of the original setup for the game, I doubt such would exist. Of course, this is all based on supposition."

ThreadNecro5

2018-05-14, 07:56 PM

Aftermath
I'd like to know the class as well. I think that levels in a monster class counts as well.

Powerful isn't one of the categories. Are they both very high or are the just high?

Edit:

Or are you saying that the second being don't only have Frost Giant levels and the first one is an elf with a Wendigo Class? If so what's a wendigo class?

Sense motive to learn bab: 53
Knowledge(whatever) to learn useful details: 47
Knowledge(Arcana) to identify spell effects/spells: 47.
Remember that Chase has a permanent arcane sight running. Does that reveal anything?

What I meant by very powerful was the very high category. Whatever my brain was doing I think it forgot to keep that part in mind. when I was mulling over sentence structure and work choice.

As to the elf wendigo thing that is a bit of setting weirdness.

BAB: +31

Useful Details:
While this is not a creature you are familiar with you can make educated guesses

While different from normal at least some wendigo traits should be expected. That includes a vulnerability to fire which also nullifies it's regeneration, a trait a creature made of ice assuredly shares. Other possible expectations are blindsight, so stealth likely isn't an option, unarmed attacks that can induce grapple and deals additional cold damage, and varying AoE abilities such as weather control and it can howl to cause a fear debuff. Wendigo are also quite fast, with 120ft fly and at will wind walk, the later able to be used offensively too. One odd ability was a curse that in Genesis triggered either on fleeing the encounter or getting targeted by Air Walk and would cause wisdom drain and should that stat empty trigger a charm effect that made the character attack the closest humanoid, gain a fly ability on kill and cause death minutes later. The weird part is this them spawns another wendigo at the death location. In game this was used to grief noobs before the new wendigo was patched to scale with spawn area.

That this creature varies in is first, there were sig of an aura, likely ice related but what that could mean is unknown. It's icy body suggests immunity to precision damage and similar elemental traits. Possibly damage resistance too.

The fact it is half buried gives credence to it being able to burrow or otherwise move through ice.

Spell Effects:
Moderate Aura.
Constant: Air Walk, Greater Magic Fang
It has spell-like abilities. highest level is 9th.

Mausoleum
"Why would they make things accidentally and why not correct for mistakes? Why have people starve back at the material plane?"
"When one does something accidentally it is most cases not by intent. As to why the gods don't fix their mistakes, That is a good question. Think about it, were you told one day you were flawed and must be changed, how would you feel? To answer more properly, it varies. Some don't care, one has decided that it is not his place to forcibly change an existing people; That it violates their right to live as themselves. In another's case the apparent flaws were quite deliberate, to give the creation something to struggle against".

"And to your following question, you basically ask the old 'why do people suffer'. Have you ever considered why temples exist? They are a place to give the gods somewhere to focus. How do you know that these hypothetical staving people have ever been noticed by any god. If a deity did decide to help them over all the countless others then what if another decides to oppose the first? On the plane of Grathngur where most mortals are, he keeps a balance of sorts to the world. Life must struggle, but it always has a chance. If you were to ask he would tell you those starving people have options, they may not know them, they may even be so foul that they reject them, but they have a chance".

The sims mouth gradually opened more by the word. In a world in which souls could exist potentially forever then soul mutalation was probably one of the vilest things imaginable. We were talking potentially endless torment "Are they aware?", she asks with a small voice: "After they have been crafted I mean?"
"In many cases, yes." answers the outsider, clear hatred showing. "Perhaps most if not all. Communication with them is difficult and it is hard to tell if someone cannot reply or will not".

"Tell me more about Geiirlefur."
"Geiirlefur is the god of greed, vice, and exploitation. He was born when existence began. He was also among the last of the first gods to meet the rest. I haven't all the details but he was apparently found with nothing but a petty kingdom of lemures and had been alone for all this time. You could say he was consumed by his own greed, alone for who knows how long. Well he finally met another being and never wanted to be alone again. It was said a pair of angels sent to explore found him. Geiirlefur wanted them to stay with him but one angel escaped. The other he held down and was fascinated by. He tried to figure out what it was and like a child wound up tearing the angel apart seeing how it worked. Next time he was seen he had made the first imp".

"He was greedy, he was greed. He wanted people and one mortals were took to luring unclaimed souls to him. He discovered a lot about souls and so exploited them, as was his nature. Eventually the Foundry of today came to be, built up from the original swamp. Where to explain from hee yould depend what you wish to know".

Ran out of time to write the bit with the sims but it's near two in the morning on my clock and I need sleep.

Sønderjye

2018-05-15, 09:46 AM

Aftermath

"Yeah.... No", Scourge says as she turns around and heads back out.

'High likelyhood of some sort of Wendigo based fusion, so with 31 Bab we can anticipate something around 31 CR and that's just too dangerous when we don't know enough about this world. Have someone keep an eye on it in case it wakes. Any news on the other powerful creature in the mountains or other potential candidates?"

That's totally fine. Please do take care of yourself.

Mausoleum

And to your following question, you basically ask the old 'why do people suffer'. Have you ever considered why temples exist? They are a place to give the gods somewhere to focus. How do you know that these hypothetical staving people have ever been noticed by any god.

That was a slip of crucial information. Chase had been so used to idea of god being omniscient that it hadn't appeared to him that this would be different here. That was good, at least in some sense. Killing a god would be difficult if they automatically knew. And now it looked like there was another god on the list.

If a deity did decide to help them over all the countless others then what if another decides to oppose the first?

"Countless? How many gods are there? And what are the biggest ones?" The mummy seemed willing enough to give information but she still hadn't a clear read on why. The information aligned with what she already knew, and unless they all 4 had been outperformed it really was a low CR being, so the fact that they hadn't detected a lie showed that it was being honest. Maybe it just enjoyed the company or maybe it's mind was forged in such a fashiong that it derived joy from being helpful.

"Which other fates exist that would prevent anybody from getting here aside from the atrocities in the Foundry? Also, how do souls travel here on a practical level?"

Simulacrum in the Mountain

Bond listens to Jack's stream of conciousness without interupting before saying in a quiet voice: "Hang on, I need to digest this"

'Have we been... blinded by our hypothesis?' she reluctantly sends to the Network.

'It's possible', one voice sends back: 'It's a known problem for investigation and it particularly hits people who like to be percieved as intelligent. Which fits our profile pretty well'

'Funny', she drily commented. Still she had to admit that it was true. 'We also don't know too much about computers, maybe it's true. I'll adjust the chance to a simulation to 99% with a simulation from earth taking up 95 of those.'

'Please. That's way to much. I've been watching, this Jack has a very confident aura surrounding him and your judgement is getting swayed. 80% tops.'

'Bah. You just don't want to give up the dream that the world includes magic and that what we knew was just a tiny deadmagic bubble.'

After a long silence Bond responds to Jack: "Your point about an earth simulation is good. The point wouldn't be to find an exit though. The point would be to find a way to communicate with whoever is on the other end and figure out what they want."

"But putting that on hold for a moment. Suppose that this is real. What do you want?"

Jack_Simth

2018-05-15, 08:13 PM

Simulacrum in the Mountain

Bond listens to Jack's stream of conciousness without interupting before saying in a quiet voice: "Hang on, I need to digest this"

'Have we been... blinded by our hypothesis?' she reluctantly sends to the Network.

'It's possible', one voice sends back: 'It's a known problem for investigation and it particularly hits people who like to be percieved as intelligent. Which fits our profile pretty well'

'Funny', she drily commented. Still she had to admit that it was true. 'We also don't know too much about computers, maybe it's true. I'll adjust the chance to a simulation to 99% with a simulation from earth taking up 95 of those.'

'Please. That's way to much. I've been watching, this Jack has a very confident aura surrounding him and your judgement is getting swayed. 80% tops.'

'Bah. You just don't want to give up the dream that the world includes magic and that what we knew was just a tiny deadmagic bubble.'

After a long silence Bond responds to Jack: "Your point about an earth simulation is good. The point wouldn't be to find an exit though. The point would be to find a way to communicate with whoever is on the other end and figure out what they want."

"But putting that on hold for a moment. Suppose that this is real. What do you want?"

Ephermial Recollection shrugs "Get back in touch with my wife and child. Immortality is nice and all, but without someone to share it with?" She shakes her head "Well, that's half of where you get 'immortality as a curse' stories from. Losing everyone you love over & over again, slowly degrading over time, losing touch with what it means to be human, et cetera."

She also circles back "As to talking to whoever's running the simulation? That assumes it's a deliberate simulation, that the time scales of both the simulation and the host world are close enough for communication to be possible, that you can manipulate a monitored aspect of the simulation in a controllable and obvious manner, and that the person running it desires to reply. All must be true for that goal to be achievable, and any given one may or may not be true. To test the set, you'd need to attempt communication. If it is a sim, and a deliberate one, then there are good odds that the person running it has some amount of monitoring and editing ability. To attempt communication, one would need to find a monitored aspect of the simulation, modify it in an obvious way to make it say something, and look for a response via a similar method. Best guess would be... the operator has a bird's eye view map. If that's the case, then you basically want to write on the ground in a way pretty much visible from orbit, and use that to ask a question - build a sign, basically - with the obvious response being to edit the terrain to answer. If the operator is tracking something a bit more arcane than an overview map, then you'd need to manipulate whatever's being tracked with something like Morse Code. Of course, given what an operator would likely want to track, manipulating that gets... stomach churning."

Sønderjye

2018-05-16, 07:51 AM

ThreadNecro5

2018-05-16, 06:58 PM

Research and Development
Scourge makes hand-to-forehead connection and sighs. Of course it would. And of course it would try to be clever in a situation in which he was being questioned.

'That's fine', she sends back: 'Just compare the results to see if what things he's able to think about that others aren't. And also let him pick a name, it's the least we can do.'

Does more spell research answer any of the questions I asked in the prior post?

Can you say what name the lesser sim would pick? You are of course more familiar with the personality in question so you'd know better hoe the character would think

Also just to double check I'm reading the right part It is the question on magic jar you referred to?

Your Simulacrums make contact shortly.

"He says he could betray us if he was so inclined but considering you are the best informed instance of us that is unlikely but he feels no enforced loyalty and theorises that he could be persuaded to work against us if someone could give good cause".

Aftermath

"Yeah.... No", Scourge says as she turns around and heads back out.

'High likelyhood of some sort of Wendigo based fusion, so with 31 Bab we can anticipate something around 31 CR and that's just too dangerous when we don't know enough about this world. Have someone keep an eye on it in case it wakes. Any news on the other powerful creature in the mountains or other potential candidates?"

"Base Attack Bonus would be about plus twenty-one." comes the Reply.

"We can confirm it's incorporeal." continues another "It's on the move and went straight through some rocks and trees. It just began running out of nowhere. It's fast too, had to resort to short range teleports. Not much more to say. Don't know what else it can do, don't know if it's smart, and we don't know it's motivations".

Mausoleum
"Countless? How many gods are there? And what are the biggest ones?" The mummy seemed willing enough to give information but she still hadn't a clear read on why. The information aligned with what she already knew, and unless they all 4 had been outperformed it really was a low CR being, so the fact that they hadn't detected a lie showed that it was being honest. Maybe it just enjoyed the company or maybe it's mind was forged in such a fashiong that it derived joy from being helpful.
"You misunderstand, the countless were the people, not the gods who may take interest". It is left thinking for a bit.

"To count only true gods, there are fourty-four. Once fourty-five but one died. It be of note to you that some consider the missing god to still exist".

[QUOTE=Sønderjye;23072028]"Which other fates exist that would prevent anybody from getting here aside from the atrocities in the Foundry? Also, how do souls travel here on a practical level?"
"Well becoming a creature of the planes is one, well they're free to enter should they not be an issue. And I already mentioned the destruction of a soul by any means. Related to becoming a creature of the planes is that some souls can fight the tide after death and return to the world. They would become something like what are variably called the returned or oni, or the rakshasa. Sometimes a god or other powerful being might take the effort to prevent a soul from receiving another fate, such as with the elves as a race, whose creator prefers to reincarnate them as something else".

"There is the Arena, a plane that would have been the domain of the missing god I mentioned. The living and undead may enter and leave but if the dead enter or a person dies while inside their soul is trapped and would need to be resurrected to leave. If the soul dies again they are absorbed into the realm of the arena they reside on, and the realm's master may use that soul to various purposes".

"Other occurrences exist that can cause the soul to take longer or be less likely to come here but beyond what I have mentioned you'll be hard pressed to find other permeant means of denting a soul access to here".

Jack_Simth

2018-05-16, 08:17 PM

Simulacrum at the Mountain

"Have you considered making simulacrum of them?", Bond asks softly: "Sure, they'll be copies but if this is a simulation you too are a copy."

Bond shrugs. "It's an assumption, yes, but I think it's the most likely one given a simulation. There's still too much detail for this to have happened accidently. Even if they were running an old simulation with a massive boost in processing power that wouldn't explain the increase graphics and new sensations, not to speak of the actual time stopping. But yeah, you're right, we should start some landscaping."

The Jack in the ghost shakes his head "There's a couple of things wrong with simming them. One, simulacrums are perfectly obedient; that degree of control does not belong in a husband-wife or parent-child relationship; if someone else sims them, then they're perfectly obedient to that person, and I can never really trust them, which is necessary. Two, while I'm leaning towards the idea that I'm stuck in a simulation... that's not my only hypothesis, and I'd rather not risk cheating on my wife if one of my lower-rated probability scenarios happens to be the correct one. Third, simulacrums are greatly static; that's mostly OK for an adult... for a child?" He shudders at that thought, "Kids are inherently driven to learn and grow. It's a basic part of their makeup. The urge dies down as they learn more, but for a young child to be forever denied a main driving force and forever stuck with it? I'm not going to go down that road. Fourth... I may or may not be the me that recited those vows, but I feel like me, and it would always be in my face that they're not the same them. You're you, but the you that you are is not the previous you of your original. The same would apply to them."

He responds to the second comment "As I said: There's only really one way to test the set. Of course, we also don't know the timescale. Even if all assumptions about a monitored sim are correct, there's very little point in running a simulation at or slower than real time, so it's probably running in quick time. Depending on how big the time difference, it's entirely possible that the next monitoring of a map sample won't occur for a year or more. It's certainly worth trying despite the expense of time, don't get me wrong, but I wouldn't suggest you hold your breath waiting for results. Still, it's something to try... sort of like asking your original to to cast Time Stop while I watch; that could at least disprove the hypothesis that we're running on our original hardware." He pauses briefly "Or do organic brains count as wetware? Eh, no matter."

Sønderjye

2018-05-17, 06:25 AM

@All Players except Jack

If you are still at the castle one of the guards approaches you, telling you that Chase have found another player and is bringing him to the castle.

If you're not you'll receive the same message but in a sending.

They'll arrive at the gate in a few.

Research and Development

'Thank him for his willingness to contribute and ask him to continue exploring which thought he is capable of exploring that the others can't'

The name conversation the sims are going with is keeping Chase as a first name and choosing a different last name. Chase wasn't attached to his last name but they all feel like 'Chase' so it makes sense to keep that name, and they use the last name to refer to each other. Jack is talking to Chase Bond because they ran out of creative names. Just choose some last name that are either reasonably common, either real or fictional.

Not quite. While I am also interested in whether they can use magic jar these were the questions.

It was all well and good that the spell changed the thought process but the question was how. Was it a one time change or was it like an automatic agent that constantly suppressed 'disloyal' thoughts? Did it change the brain chemistry such that the pleasure chemicals were released when loyal behaviour and thoughts were enacted? Or was it more of a change in personality?

Aftermath

"Yeah, let's go!", Chase exclaims. A fight against something that seemed about his level would be great. And he had thought of a way to fix the pain thing. Scavenging his mind he had remembered a largely useless Genesis spell but one that could serve as a magical equivalent of pumping your body full of painkillers.

After receiving the spell he is ported to the location of the creature, greatsword in hand. "Hey you. I want to fight." It was a little crude but it got the message across.
The spell is delay pain (https://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic/all-spells/d/delay-pain/)

Mausoleum

"To count only true gods, there are fourty-four. Once fourty-five but one died. It be of note to you that some consider the missing god to still exist".

"Can you give me the basic outline of those? Or at least their groupings and the main players?"

Simulacrum at the mountain

'Can I get a few oppinions on whether he's honestly believing the arguments or if he's just trying to justify a yuck reaction?', the sim send to the Network.

"There's a spell for making simulacrums that are simply a copy of the original without the obedience part. And I think we should be cautious in trusting the full description of the spells. We already know that some spells work differently than they did in Genesis and I'm not convinced that Simulacrums can't become more powerful. Knowledge, money and allies all contribute to the power of a person and I certainly have been able to acquire all of the above. And I feel like me as well. You might be a copy of someone carbon-based and I might be a copy of a copy of something carbon-based but it really is of minor importance. I'm living and breathing, and I wouldn't want to not be if you get my drift. On top, they'd be a copy of folks back on earth so they'd retain the same level of originality as you," Bond responds with a warm smile: "Assuming a simulation of course. Hey, I'm not saying you should go ahead and do it thoughtlessly but it's an option if you determine that you won't be able to return."

Bond shrugs: "Sure, we'll get around to it tomorrow. And I'm sure Tollens will be fine blowing a time stop or two. Returning to the topic earlier though. Ideas for taking down a god?"

Jack_Simth

2018-05-17, 07:20 AM

Simulacrum at the mountain

'Can I get a few oppinions on whether he's honestly believing the arguments or if he's just trying to justify a yuck reaction?', the sim send to the Network.

"There's a spell for making simulacrums that are simply a copy of the original without the obedience part. And I think we should be cautious in trusting the full description of the spells. We already know that some spells work differently than they did in Genesis and I'm not convinced that Simulacrums can't become more powerful. Knowledge, money and allies all contribute to the power of a person and I certainly have been able to acquire all of the above. And I feel like me as well. You might be a copy of someone carbon-based and I might be a copy of a copy of something carbon-based but it really is of minor importance. I'm living and breathing, and I wouldn't want to not be if you get my drift. On top, they'd be a copy of folks back on earth so they'd retain the same level of originality as you," Bond responds with a warm smile: "Assuming a simulation of course. Hey, I'm not saying you should go ahead and do it thoughtlessly but it's an option if you determine that you won't be able to return."

Bond shrugs: "Sure, we'll get around to it tomorrow. And I'm sure Tollens will be fine blowing a time stop or two. Returning to the topic earlier though. Ideas for taking down a god?"
The corrupted nature spirit replies "Lesser Simulacrum, yes. I'm familiar with it. It's also temporary. Sure, there's ways to extend that, even indefinitely by making use of planar traits, but then it becomes 'keep them prisoner or watch them die'. When you're talking about loved ones, that's on my 'no' list. For the learning bit, do keep in mind: I'm talking about a young child - a toddler, really - so the things he'll need to do are 'learn to talk', 'learn to jump', and on and on. I may drop that point if I you find an example of a simulacrum actually learning a new language rather than just casting Tongues or getting skill points shuffled around via something like Psychic Reformation. And I didn't say they wouldn't be people. Just that it would always be in my face that they weren't the originals; I've got the ranks to ID a sim of a person I'm familiar with on a nat-1. It would never feel right. Also, point of order: This being a sim is not yet proven, it just seems the most likely... and even if it is, that doesn't necessitate that those who were players in the prior Genesis are copies in this one; transfers from the original world cannot be ruled out at this point, which might suggest a mode of escape if this is a sim. I may re-evaluate some of these options once I'm sufficiently convinced that there's no method of getting back together or that my wife is likely to be dead of old age. After all, I haven't tried Wish's Transport Traveler's clause yet, I need to save up a little first... and my first attempt at that will be on one of my least useful coworkers."

"As for the deity, the first step is 'get more information': Has it been done before? How? Is a deities power tied to worship at all? What makes a deity a deity?"

ThreadNecro5

2018-05-18, 03:18 PM

Research and Development

'Thank him for his willingness to contribute and ask him to continue exploring which thought he is capable of exploring that the others can't'

The name conversation the sims are going with is keeping Chase as a first name and choosing a different last name. Chase wasn't attached to his last name but they all feel like 'Chase' so it makes sense to keep that name, and they use the last name to refer to each other. Jack is talking to Chase Bond because they ran out of creative names. Just choose some last name that are either reasonably common, either real or fictional.

Not quite. While I am also interested in whether they can use magic jar these were the questions.

"He figures he'll use Davis as a distinct surname. Wee will get back to you on the results of further emotional testing".

It was all well and good that the spell changed the thought process but the question was how. Was it a one time change or was it like an automatic agent that constantly suppressed 'disloyal' thoughts? Did it change the brain chemistry such that the pleasure chemicals were released when loyal behaviour and thoughts were enacted? Or was it more of a change in personality?

It is a one-time mental alteration to brain function, it does not so much supress disloyal thoughts as otherwise seamlessly modify the mental foundation of the duplicated individual so that they wont naturally undergo thoughts that would result in that sim preforming an action considered betrayal.

Magic jar Experimentation:
One of your simulacra contacts you.

"We have finished testing the effects of Magic Jar, and well, we have found what seems to be a strange interaction with your fusion power. Each of us it seems, we repeated the spell and got the same results so it seems to be us all, has a copy of the mind of the Oracle whose body was used by you. The Magic Jar was successful and the spell itself behaves as expected but the empty body is instead then controlled by the copy of the oracle".

Aftermath
"Yeah, let's go!", Chase exclaims. A fight against something that seemed about his level would be great. And he had thought of a way to fix the pain thing. Scavenging his mind he had remembered a largely useless Genesis spell but one that could serve as a magical equivalent of pumping your body full of painkillers.

After receiving the spell he is ported to the location of the creature, greatsword in hand. "Hey you. I want to fight." It was a little crude but it got the message across.
The spell is delay pain (https://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic/all-spells/d/delay-pain/)

The snow is deep enough that you sink halfway to your knee in worst patches, still past the ankle in the worst. The wind is gnawing enough that it wyld be an annoyance were you alive.

Your surroundings are open with sparse trees beginning in the distance. Your quarry is as assuredly incorporeal as you were told, even being semi-amorphous as it moves, yet it also displaces the snow judging my the trail. It is lupine in aspect but gaunt, even emaciated. It turns to face you as you call out so that you get a good look at the large antlers it bears. The whole being is seemingly made of amber-red light.

It circles you slowly before letting out a slow howl that eclipses the wind.

The whole area is difficult terrain.

Take a will save.

Mausoleum
"Can you give me the basic outline of those? Or at least their groupings and the main players?"

"Well the main, indeed only, formal organisation is the council of light. The founder was Chuminug with, Kaji, Disbar, Butau, and Carak, forming the current members. Ennos, as family of Carak, assists too but does not accept full membership. Yolt'zin is the same".

"As it seems you are ignorant to matters divine, I should specify the gods areas of influence. In short Chuminug is the deity of light and Combating evil. Kaji has dominion over civilisation, Disbar the manufactured god is the lord of honour and protection, Butau is the god of law, and Carak is lord of trials and bravery. Yolt'zin is, for want of a better word, child of Chuminug. He is the god of darkness, and Redemption".

"The other organisation of sorts is the kin of Jotnuss, the god of earth and government. His many descendants are for the most part a loose group of allied deities. Carak, Gedjoena goddess of smiting and healing, Phys, goddess of flame and prophecy, Lizeba goddess of challenge and the unseen, Inachad, god of tyranny and suffering, and Nacxid, goddess of corruption and infestation, are the divinities among his children. As is Neyja who is a goddess of travel and trade. Neyja herself is red to Rugdos, god of war and souls, and mother of Ennos and Oara who are the twin gods of defence and offence".

"I suppose the kin of Ocborth can be considered similar. He is god of revelry, destruction, pleasure, and all things hedonistic. Well it seems he and Nybraura, the goddess of serenity and cataclysm, associate rather well when they are not at odds. Their three children are Larkous the god of disaster and wrath, Brarut god of rebellion and betrayal, and Rausya goddess of despair and curses".

"Those at least are the main larger groups between the gods. The heart of Geiirlefur's forges became Kekep who is a deity of technology and disease but that is just two".

Sønderjye

2018-05-20, 04:15 AM

Sending

All the players receives notice that Jack is comming, either by a guard or with a Sending.

Magic jar Experimentation

'Oh. Ehm. ****!', were the very brilliant thoughts that crossed Chase's mind after hearing the message. He really hadn't thought this through. Maybe he shouldn't be giving the gods this much flag for their slipups during creation. He wasn't doing a much better job himself.

"At least that strongly suggest that you have a soul", he tries weakly, and after a moment: "How is everyone doing?"

"From my research it doesn't seem like the spell is monitoring your thoughts but more so that you were made different from me."

Aftermath

"I'll consider that consent", Scourge yelled before attacking.

If the thing is close enough, Scourge will move and attack.

If not he'll Dimension Hop and attack.

[roll0]

Attack 1: [roll0] [roll1]
Attack 2: [roll2] [roll3]
Attack 3: [roll4] [roll5]

Magus ability lets me uses dimension door and still make a full attack.

Mausoleum

That was a remarkably complex system of dieties. On the bright side it didn't sound like that neither the Locust or the greedy god had a lot of friends.

She stands in silence for a while contemplating.

Simulacrum at the mountain

Bond opens his mouth to respond but at that moment he spots a few griffon manifesting from seemingly thin, a little ahead of them.

"We're here", she instead announces. She'll guide Jack to the Griffons which, upon getting close enough, actually is standing beside a massive flying castle.

"We got it in a raid a few years back", Bond explains as she lands on the ground just outside a big gate which opens into an entire town. She scratches her head and then continues with a certain amount of pride in her voice: "And then I upgraded it such that it could do the hiding trick as well as a few others."

Jack_Simth

2018-05-20, 07:45 PM

The man in a woman's ... well, not quite 'body' ... shrugs "Impressive enough, but... are you sure you want a base that can fall out of the sky if the right person casts a Disjunction on it? My guild hall used linked Genesis demiplanes. The spell's hard to get, so we bought scrolls; if we'd needed more castings... well, I've got a way around needing those, it just takes a bit longer. They're not subject to Disjunction, have no need of Permanency, and are still demiplanes customizable via the Create Demiplane line. We set up about a hundred permanent Gates that way to be used for trade by the guild members who couldn't just Teleport on their own... or who wanted to do more trading in a day than their spell slots would permit."

He continues "So... is the boss man home?"

Sønderjye: About your hunting... while apparently you can get XP... have you confirmed it's useful to do so? Few classes extend beyond 20th, we've no indication of what XP track we might be on, and there were notes in the recruitment thread about us being fairly static in that regard.... which would mean that for now the only one who can track your advancement is TN.

Sønderjye

2018-05-21, 04:16 AM

I'm giving the other folks a day or two more to voice whether they want to be introduced to Jack. I wanted to adress the OOC though.

I'll say that hunting serves three purposes. One, and purhaps the most important, is that fighting is fun and gives me a needed break from roleplaying. Another is to gauge the combat abilities of the natives and see how that compares to what we got from Genesis. Lastly it is to test whether we can level, and if so do it.
I'm not really seeing any way of confirming whether we can level or not, aside from actually gaining XP. While the character progression (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/character-advancement/) includes guidelines for how to advance beyond level 20 that certainly isn't the only way. Multiclassing is an option, as is going mythic.
If TN is curious I found a single homebrew (http://www.jessesdnd.com/sites/default/files/EpicPathfinder1.6.pdf) for epic level PF that seems fairly well done.

ThreadNecro5

2018-05-21, 03:22 PM

Magic jar Experimentation
'Oh. Ehm. ****!', were the very brilliant thoughts that crossed Chase's mind after hearing the message. He really hadn't thought this through. Maybe he shouldn't be giving the gods this much flag for their slipups during creation. He wasn't doing a much better job himself.
"At least that strongly suggest that you have a soul", he tries weakly, and after a moment: "How is everyone doing?"

"We're alright, the oracles are a bit confused on what happened, they seem to have been aware in the back of our minds. Current discussions are mostly centring on what might happen once the magic jars end and possible countermeasures for the less ideal possibilities".

"From my research it doesn't seem like the spell is monitoring your thoughts but more so that you were made different from me."

"Good to know, some of us were thinking that. We can probably trust the difference between a permeant and instantaneous effect".

Aftermath

"I'll consider that consent", Scourge yelled before attacking.

If the thing is close enough, Scourge will move and attack.

If not he'll Dimension Hop and attack.

[roll0]

Attack 1: [roll0] [roll1]
Attack 2: [roll2] [roll3]
Attack 3: [roll4] [roll5]

Magus ability lets me uses dimension door and still make a full attack.

Go with dimension hop due to the snow.

Also I'm not quite parsing your rolls, it's not clearly labelled what is what and I need to roll a concentration check

Initiative: [roll0]

I'm giving the other folks a day or two more to voice whether they want to be introduced to Jack. I wanted to adress the OOC though.

As to where the others are I guess Drack is still experiencing computer issues and the last I heard of Aleph Null he said had finals to study for.

Sønderjye

2018-05-21, 05:21 PM

Aftermath

The first one was the will save you asked for.
The three attacks were three attacks with a +5 greatsword, first to hit then for damage. Two posts ago I said that she had a greatsword in hand but in retrospec I could have been clearer.

Do you need to roll a concentration check or do you need me to roll a concentration check?
If it's the latter then here's a concentration [roll0]
Initiative if you haven't already rolled it: [roll1]

Base

"A base consisting of demiplanes were a considerations," Bond's eyes grows a bit distant and his voice becomes almost melancholic: "I remember that there was a lot of good sounding arguments back then. Like how it had a high will save, how if it were hit by somehing antimagic it would just fall out of the radius, how nobody would risk losing their spellcasting abilities permanently by using disjunction, how it's ability to stay hidden and being immune to divinations combined with it's constant moving around made it impossible for outsiders to reach. Ultimately though I suspect that people just wanted a flying castle for the coolness factor and for how difficult the Storm King raid had been. It's been serving us well enough though."

"So... is the boss man home?"

The simulacrum is about to answer when the ground opens about 30 ft. ahead and the original Scourge slowly rises. She looks pretty much identical to Bond a woman in her late 20 with green hair, except that Jack doesn't detect her as a Simulacrum.

"Hey", she greets with a smile that could have melted the heart of a frostgiant. "I'm going by Tollens these days and I am the creator of Bond. You're the first player from outside the guild I've seen and while I'm happy to meet people I have more in common with that those from this world, I am also conserned about what you might do, as you probably gauged by Bond's reaction."

The sim puts a hand up and rubs the back of his head looking awkward: "Whoops"

"Frankly the people who spends their time in VR aren't the most stable and that goes double for those who haven't moved on when the game is about to close. That said I'd much rather that we work together than against each other and I think we share at least some common goals. So as a sign of trust" he untangles his spellpouch from his belt and throws it a little away: "I don't have a weapon out and I've instructed my bodyguards and castle to not ready an attack if you do something fishy. If you have a beef with something I did in the past now would be a good time to let me know."

"I have a few questions myself such as whether you know of other players around, what you've learned about this place and what your goals are but I am sure you have your own."

Jack_Simth

2018-05-21, 09:29 PM

Base

"A base consisting of demiplanes were a considerations," Bond's eyes grows a bit distant and his voice becomes almost melancholic: "I remember that there was a lot of good sounding arguments back then. Like how it had a high will save, how if it were hit by somehing antimagic it would just fall out of the radius, how nobody would risk losing their spellcasting abilities permanently by using disjunction, how it's ability to stay hidden and being immune to divinations combined with it's constant moving around made it impossible for outsiders to reach. Ultimately though I suspect that people just wanted a flying castle for the coolness factor and for how difficult the Storm King raid had been. It's been serving us well enough though."

The simulacrum is about to answer when the ground opens about 30 ft. ahead and the original Scourge slowly rises. She looks pretty much identical to Bond a woman in her late 20 with green hair, except that Jack doesn't detect her as a Simulacrum.

"Hey", she greets with a smile that could have melted the heart of a frostgiant. "I'm going by Tollens these days and I am the creator of Bond. You're the first player from outside the guild I've seen and while I'm happy to meet people I have more in common with that those from this world, I am also conserned about what you might do, as you probably gauged by Bond's reaction."

The sim puts a hand up and rubs the back of his head looking awkward: "Whoops"

"Frankly the people who spends their time in VR aren't the most stable and that goes double for those who haven't moved on when the game is about to close. That said I'd much rather that we work together than against each other and I think we share at least some common goals. So as a sign of trust" he untangles his spellpouch from his belt and throws it a little away: "I don't have a weapon out and I've instructed my bodyguards and castle to not ready an attack if you do something fishy. If you have a beef with something I did in the past now would be a good time to let me know."

"I have a few questions myself such as whether you know of other players around, what you've learned about this place and what your goals are but I am sure you have your own."

Ephermial Recollection blinks, and says "First off, you do realize that everything you said applies equally well to yourself, right?" She chuckles "Not that it matters. 'Misery acquaints a man with strange bedfellows,' after all. Now that there's two of us, though... the Time Stop test should confirm - mostly - whether or not we're running on our own hardware in this scenario... how closely were you listening in on the conversation?" She continues "Regardless... if you cast Time Stop, and I don't experience a discontinuity, and I accept that you're real, then that's proof enough for me that I'm not simply sitting in my gaming room. If I do experience a discontinuity, that tells me I'm still running on my original hardware. I can of course do the same for you, but it will need to wait until tomorrow for me to prepare that spell. I've been largely engaged in charity work today." She briefly sidetracks "Which reminds me... I'll need to find a good source of medium mammalian animals... sheep, maybe... hmm... could just go deer hunting..." she shakes her head "... but I've got a few days until I need the herd, and the situation is stable enough. Not immediately relevant."

She gets back on track "As for goals... first order of business is 'attempt to sort out what's going on'. Proof will be hard to come by, of course, especially as it's painfully obvious from the sims that the event had access to our memories... well, unless they were made post-event, but that doesn't seem likely. I've got three running major guesses, with sub-categories for each, and some ideas for tests to run. I'm guessing you've got a few of your own. Would you like to share notes, and how far in depth would you like me to go? I tend to ramble."

She goes on and on... "Second order of business depends partially on the first. 'Get back home' or maybe 'bring home here' or perhaps 'settle in for the long haul'. Plus I've got some charity work to keep my mind occupied." She considers "Of course, given the nature of some of the tests, first and second order of business needs to be done at least partially in parallel. Hmm." she trails off a bit.

Sønderjye

2018-05-22, 03:05 AM

"First off, you do realize that everything you said applies equally well to yourself, right?"

Scourge breaks out in a sad-happy smile. "I know. And my life back on earth wasn't exactly pleasant."

"how closely were you listening in on the conversation?"

"I wasn't actually. I have a policy of not listening in on the other chases unless explicit consent and besides I've been busy. I only got things second-hand though I thing I got the main bits."

"Regardless... if you cast Time Stop, and I don't experience a discontinuity, and I accept that you're real, then that's proof enough for me that I'm not simply sitting in my gaming room.

"Wait, am I the first player you have met after the clock went down?" she asks curiously before answering the implicit question: "But yeah I can do a cast, though I'll need to take down a few contingencies first." She starts walking over to spellpouch, then remembers that neither Dispel nor Time Stop have material components, so she unceremonially cast two of them in quick succession.

From one moment to another everything is frozen over, and a Meladaemon and a Erodaemon is facing off, looking like they are ready to pounce on each other. Scouge looks like she is about to cast another spell but stops as she spots you moving. "Ahh. I never know how long these things last. Shame though, a vulcano in the background would really have put the final touch on the dramatic scene."

Rounds stopped: [roll0]
If you study the two things you get a will DC 50 to realize that they are only quasi-real and made of material drawn from the shadow plane.

"I'll need to find a good source of medium mammalian animals... sheep, maybe... hmm... could just go deer hunting"

"What do you need them for?", you detect a little disconsern in Tollens voice. Which either means that your sense motive beat her bluff or that she wanted you to know.

Would you like to share notes, and how far in depth would you like me to go?

"Yeah, that would be great and go as deep as you would like. I think that you got most of my high level thoughts from Bond. Bond were born after the clock went down for whatever it's worth."

"Plus I've got some charity work to keep my mind occupied."

"You might want to be careful with doing too much good. Rumour has it that the main god of this plane has a distorted view on capital Balance and will actively screw things up for people who get too much help. He likes struggle you see. Although I'm still unsure of whether that applies to all kinds of help or just the help from specific individuals."

Jack_Simth

2018-05-22, 09:16 PM

Scourge breaks out in a sad-happy smile. "I know. And my life back on earth wasn't exactly pleasant."

The Jack in the ghost states "Have... or is that had... a pretty nice one myself; good job, a kind and lovely wife, and a cute little toddler. Getting back to them, or getting them here, is something of a priority for me. Really, there's very little more important than family."

"I wasn't actually. I have a policy of not listening in on the other chases unless explicit consent and besides I've been busy. I only got things second-hand though I thing I got the main bits."

"Wait, am I the first player you have met after the clock went down?" she asks curiously before answering the implicit question: "But yeah I can do a cast, though I'll need to take down a few contingencies first." She starts walking over to spellpouch, then remembers that neither Dispel nor Time Stop have material components, so she unceremonially cast two of them in quick succession.

From one moment to another everything is frozen over, and a Meladaemon and a Erodaemon is facing off, looking like they are ready to pounce on each other. Scouge looks like she is about to cast another spell but stops as she spots you moving. "Ahh. I never know how long these things last. Shame though, a vulcano in the background would really have put the final touch on the dramatic scene."

Rounds stopped: [roll0]
If you study the two things you get a will DC 50 to realize that they are only quasi-real and made of material drawn from the shadow plane.

Constant True Seeing, and they're other creatures post-casting, which means you can't affect them during a time stop, so you're going to have some difficulty Mind-blanking both of them... also; I'm in nat-1 territory on that save. So... eh, may as well [roll0]
The Jack in the ghost continues "Yes, you pretty much are. At first I thought a few of my guild mates were stuck in here too... but it turns out that their forms didn't de-rez when they disconnected. It was a bit creepy. And yes, that'll do for that, one of the simpler tests."

"What do you need them for?", you detect a little disconsern in Tollens voice. Which either means that your sense motive beat her bluff or that she wanted you to know.

He shrugs "I encountered a sea bonze, watched it kill two seemingly-innocent folks right in front of me, so I put it under my thumb and am meticulously disassembling it into the component souls. Which I then plan to restore via the Parasitic Soul spell to place them into animals, and then use Polymorph Any Object to turn them permanently into humanoids. Elves, maybe. For that to work, though, I need live mammalian animals of medium size. Simulacrums don't work, as Parasitic Soul kills the target. So yeah, at some point I'll need to go deer hunting, or maybe purchase a herd of sheep. It's the kind of charity work that tends to spark alignment debates: What kind of an act is using Evil spells towards Good ends? So I doubt anyone will intervene due to Good/Evil balance."

"Yeah, that would be great and go as deep as you would like. I think that you got most of my high level thoughts from Bond. Bond were born after the clock went down for whatever it's worth."

Jack nods "Got any from before? It'll make a useful data point; a more useful data point, in some ways. And... well, you did ask for it..."
He continues "First off: The three main branch guesses:" He starts ticking them off on his fingers, starting with his left thumb "First, the simulation hypothesis. We're all stuck in some form of computer simulation." He moves on and adds his left pointer finger to the set "Second, the many worlds theory. We've slipped into an alternate dimension." He adds his middle finger to the set "Third, the Dream hypothesis. By whatever word, I'm imagining the whole thing."

He takes a breath "Each of these, as noted, have sub guesses; the Simulation hypothesis has 'Accident or Malice?', the speed question, and 'Copy or Transfer?'. The Many Worlds theory has 'Accident, Malice, Need, or Boon?' The Dream hypothesis has 'Coma, Madhouse, or Telepath?'"

He drones on, but at least in that body it's nice to watch and the tones are dulcet "The 'accident' variations should be pretty self-explanatory; a result not intended and possibly not known. I'd thought the 'Malice' variation was self-explanatory enough, but apparently your sim had trouble with the idea that ripping someone out of their lives to be tossed into your sim for your own purposes could be considered a fundamentally malicious act. The speed question should also be fairly obvious; if this is a sim, an important question is 'What's the relative timeframe?' As an extreme example, if we're clocking at infinite speed in an out-of-control quantum computing event, then we're not going to be able to communicate with the operators - if there are any. Lower than infinity, it would take extreme effort to communicate with an operator if we're clocking ten years for every second of real time. If it takes the operator an hour to edit in an answer, that's 3,600 years our scale. On the other hand, at a low multiplier like 10 to 1, communication is only a mild hassle; if it takes the operator an hour to edit in the answer to a posed question, we'd have the answer the next day. Then there's 'Copy or Transfer?' to go with the Simulation Hypothesis. Again, they should be relatively self-explanatory variations - within the simulation hypothesis, if the data that comprises 'us' was copied out of our bodies, then there's no leaving - there's nowhere to go. In the transfer scenario, on the other hand, then our original bodies may still be available."

He moves on to the second major branch "With the many worlds theory, we've got the same 'Accident' as for the simulation hypothesis; 'Malice' is close enough to the same as well; but Many Worlds also has two additional options: 'Need' and 'Boon'. Keep in mind, these are 'as intended by the person or group arranging it.' Need should be pretty self-explanatory: Someone believes that spending the power - whatever was used - to call us here will be beneficial to them, whether that's because they expect us to do charity work, want the chaos we'll cause as a cover for something else, or because they intend to eat us in some sense or other. 'Boon' of course means that it's intended as a gift to us for one reason or another."

He shows very little in the way of signs of stopping "Then there's the 'Dream' hypothesis; this isn't really happening. I'm in a coma - well, you, from your perspective - or a madhouse, or maybe in a dreamscape created by some telepath... and am essentially imagining the whole thing. This could of course also be called the solipsist theory."

He finally seems to be starting to wind down... "As for tests: Start with the simulation theory. To communicate with the operator - assuming there is one - we'd need to modify something monitored in a way that's obviously a communication attempt, and hope for a response. Landscaping visible from orbit assuming they do maps would be a good place to start. Ideally something that a person from inside the simulation would not understand, in order to cut down on tricksters claiming to be the operator. A picture of something well-recognized from the prior world... maybe draw the Statue of Liberty by manipulating terrain to be different shades of vegetation or something, then add a question mark at the end. Then maintain and monitor it for the next ten thousand years. In theory, we'll never find evidence against the simulation hypothesis; anything we find within the simulation that suggests reality could simply be something that the simulation accounted for. We may eventually find evidence for it, but if we do, we can't entirely trust said evidence - it could just be a trickster who figured out they could manipulate us by pretended to be the operator, and just happens to be better at being a trickster than we are at detecting tricksters. Especially as whatever happened clearly has some access to our minds. Speaking of... do you have any simulacrums made prior to the event? Inquiring as to their memories from before - both things they experienced as part of the game and memories of the prior world - would give useful data."

Nope, still not done... "For the Many Worlds test, at least it's faster. Basically, it amounts to 'attempt to get a messenger from one to the other and back'. The Transport Traveler's clause of Wish being likely the best bet. Attempt to send a creature with some instructions to the old world, wait a while, attempt to retrieve said creature; the less magical the messenger, the better. While waiting, attempt to retrieve someone known from the prior world to put them here. Interview them, and send them back. An expensive test - we're looking at four Wishes here - and we can't entirely trust the results; if it is a simulation, the simulation obviously has access to our memories - otherwise the simulacrum could not exist - which among other things means that it could very well simply simulate the results we expect. And, of course, 'doesn't work at all' only tells us that we're isolated beyond what Wish can do. That could just be stronger planar separations, or it could be that the simulation has no access to the real world."

He seems just about finished "The Dream hypothesis is fundamentally untestable - my subconscious - or yours, from your perspective - would simply provide whatever results from any test lead to the result the subconscious desires; much in the same manner as why the simulation hypothesis is untestable."

And finally, a summary "So we can guess at things, but checks are thin and we're not going to get anything 'hard' - ever - but we may get enough results to satisfy us personally as to what we think happened. Might as well try though, no?"

"You might want to be careful with doing too much good. Rumour has it that the main god of this plane has a distorted view on capital Balance and will actively screw things up for people who get too much help. He likes struggle you see. Although I'm still unsure of whether that applies to all kinds of help or just the help from specific individuals."

He laughs briefly "It's the kind of charity work that tends to spark alignment debates: Parasitic Soul has the [Evil] description, so what kind of an act is using Evil spells towards Good ends? I doubt anyone will intervene due to Good/Evil balance. Plus it's not a mass scale. Just about a score of souls released back into the wilds for a time."

ThreadNecro5

2018-05-23, 12:36 PM

Jack_Simth

2018-05-23, 07:53 PM

The check was for the monster.

Rolls:
Concentration: [roll0]

All your attacks hit. Just to double check your attacks aren't cold iron/equivalent as far as I can tell?
Total damage was 28. Only now do I realise how nasty incorporeal+DR is. Will make a note of that.

Pathfinder re-implemented the magic overcoming material and alignment DR rule that Wizards dumped in the 3.0 -> 3.5 transition; see Here (https://www.d20pfsrd.com/gamemastering/special-abilities/#TOC-Overcoming-DR). With DR/Cold Iron, a +3 or better weapon ignores it. And he needs a magical effect to hurt an incorporeal at all.

DR is much less useful in Pathfinder, although it's still great against brutes.

Sønderjye

2018-05-24, 01:15 AM

Battle Royale

Scourge smiles grimly as the swing hits but his smile fades as his attack passes through. Oh well. At least this was a useful point of data, now he knew that incorporeal creatures worked as they did in Genesis. It was a weird 'concidence' how many of the same rules governed this world as governed Genesis. She throws the sword aside, letting it clank hard onto the ice.

He pays close attention to the sounds of the surroundings using his newly acquired ability to see through sounds, however he quickly realizes that he is completely blind to the soundless creature. This was an interesting challenge.

He opens a portal to his left and pull out a staff, from which he conjured an artic storm that completely covers him.

Free: Drop weapon
Move: Summon item from cache
Standard action: Casting Polar Midnight from staff on top of himself. Glimpse of the akashi says that it adds CL to damage rolls however it isn't clear to me if that includes spell damage and ability damage. I'll roll without it here.
Fort DC 44.
Damage [roll0] and dex damage [roll1]. Scourge is immune to both types. Edit: I forgot that Crafter's Art adds +10 damage so it's actually 24 cold damage and 12 dex damage.
He then floats 5 feet upwards and tries to hide in the icy storm, stealth: [roll2].

Scourge pays extra attention to how the creature reacts once he can see it again [roll3].
Scourge have blindsight running but it depend on sound. I am assuming that this doesn't help him.

Knowledge(whatever it's type is): [roll4]
Knowledge(arcane) to identify current spell effects: [roll5]
Spellcraft to identify the spell cast: [roll6]

Glimpse of the Akashic: 4 rounds left

Base

"Have... or is that had... a pretty nice one myself; good job, a kind and lovely wife, and a cute little toddler. Getting back to them, or getting them here, is something of a priority for me. Really, there's very little more important than family."

"Must have been nice", Tollens replies, imagining how his life could have been different.

Constant True Seeing, and they're other creatures post-casting, which means you can't affect them during a time stop, so you're going to have some difficulty Mind-blanking both of them... also; I'm in nat-1 territory on that save. So... eh, may as well [roll0]
True seeing would detect them as illusions. I'm confused. What makes you think that I would bother mindblanking them or otherwise affecting them?

"Actually now that I have you", he says to the two big demons standing behind him, wondering how things formed from the shadow world worked. "What's hell like?"

"I encountered a sea bonze, watched it kill two seemingly-innocent folks right in front of me, so I put it under my thumb and am meticulously disassembling it into the component souls. Which I then plan to restore via the Parasitic Soul spell to place them into animals, and then use Polymorph Any Object to turn them permanently into humanoids. Elves, maybe. For that to work, though, I need live mammalian animals of medium size. Simulacrums don't work, as Parasitic Soul kills the target. So yeah, at some point I'll need to go deer hunting, or maybe purchase a herd of sheep. It's the kind of charity work that tends to spark alignment debates: What kind of an act is using Evil spells towards Good ends? So I doubt anyone will intervene due to Good/Evil balance."

"While the question of whether an objective morality exist in thie realm, I think I could have communicated more clearly. The god I was talking about seems to care less about a capital Good/Evil balance and more of a struggle balance. In the past he have actively punished people for receiving boons, so you might want to be careful being too helpful until we know more. I'll also advice caution about preemtive action in general when there. Animals have immortal souls so their moral value is significantly higher than back on earth. Is there no options of creating a soul-less being?"

"Got any from before? It'll make a useful data point; a more useful data point, in some ways."

Tollens shakes her head.

I'd thought the 'Malice' variation was self-explanatory enough, but apparently your sim had trouble with the idea that ripping someone out of their lives to be tossed into your sim for your own purposes could be considered a fundamentally malicious act.

Bond sends Jack an annoyed look but Tollens remains neutral. "I think it's more a disagreement of semantics rather than of consequences," she says trying to be the middle man.

She listens through Jacks thoughts and only afterwards comments on the main part: "I've had many of the same speculations. While I am not as willing as you to dismiss the possibility of hard evidence just yet, I'll agree that we should focus on softer evidence and evaluate which category that would stronger predict said evidence. For instance would expect a strong continuity in the first two groups but less so in a dream or a hallucination, so I am assigning that a lower probability. Do you have any tests in mind?"

Jack_Simth

2018-05-24, 07:25 AM

The corrupted nature spirit responds....

"Must have been nice", Tollens replies, imagining how his life could have been different.

She gets a wistful look in her eyes "Very."

True seeing would detect them as illusions. I'm confused. What makes you think that I would bother mindblanking them or otherwise affecting them?

Nothing, really. I just have a habit of exploring multiple avenues.

"While the question of whether an objective morality exist in thie realm, I think I could have communicated more clearly. The god I was talking about seems to care less about a capital Good/Evil balance and more of a struggle balance. In the past he have actively punished people for receiving boons, so you might want to be careful being too helpful until we know more. I'll also advice caution about preemtive action in general when there. Animals have immortal souls so their moral value is significantly higher than back on earth. Is there no options of creating a soul-less being?"

She shrugs "They were already dead and subsumed by an undead entity, where they were going to persist until it died... and it was trapped where very little would happen to it and it needed nothing. If anything, this will increase the net struggle in the world. The spell I know about for placing an arbitrary captured soul into a body is based off of Magic Jar; it kills the old, so a Simulacrum would just melt, it needs the target to have something of a soul to work, so it's not feasible to use a construct or something - at least, not without more research. I'm planning on purchasing domestic herd beasts for that, and they get killed all the time."

She continues "As for the gods getting involved?" she shrugs "Good luck finding an action one of them doesn't oppose. If there's a god of famine or fitness, getting anyone - including yourself - fat is a sin for them. Simple eating may be. Good gods oppose Evil actions, Evil gods oppose Good actions; Lawful gods oppose Chaotic actions, Chaotic gods oppose Lawful actions. Neutral gods oppose anything that tips the scales of balance, and so on. Yet people still do things that are good, evil, lawful, chaotic, and so on. I suspect that most of the punishment the gods mete out is more for cautionary tales so folks can learn things than for main purpose."

Bond sends Jack an annoyed look but Tollens remains neutral. "I think it's more a disagreement of semantics rather than of consequences," she says trying to be the middle man.

She shrugs "Or just different life experiences; someone who hates their life will have little problem with the idea of getting pulled from it and sent elsewhere. Hardly matters, though."

She listens through Jacks thoughts and only afterwards comments on the main part: "I've had many of the same speculations. While I am not as willing as you to dismiss the possibility of hard evidence just yet, I'll agree that we should focus on softer evidence and evaluate which category that would stronger predict said evidence. For instance would expect a strong continuity in the first two groups but less so in a dream or a hallucination, so I am assigning that a lower probability. Do you have any tests in mind?"
She sighs "It was also a philosophical problem in the prior world... or perhaps we have a disagreement of what I mean when I say 'hard evidence'. Consider: Suppose for a moment that the many worlds hypothesis were true, that there is no way to contact the prior world, and that there was a very powerful entity which, for one reason or another, wanted very much to convince us that this is a simulation; in such a scenario, what would you expect to find that concretely disproved a simulation? We can go the opposite direction with that, of course, and suppose that the simulation hypothesis is true, feeding off our minds to build the simulation, and 'wants' to convince us it's real; in such a situation, what would you expect to find that concretely disproved a many worlds scenario?"

Sønderjye

2018-05-28, 09:10 AM

Base

"They were already dead and subsumed by an undead entity, where they were going to persist until it died... and it was trapped where very little would happen to it and it needed nothing. If anything, this will increase the net struggle in the world. The spell I know about for placing an arbitrary captured soul into a body is based off of Magic Jar; it kills the old, so a Simulacrum would just melt, it needs the target to have something of a soul to work, so it's not feasible to use a construct or something - at least, not without more research. I'm planning on purchasing domestic herd beasts for that, and they get killed all the time."

"What do you mean, kill the old? I never really looked at the flavour of magic jar much. I thought it just exchanged souls?"

"As for the gods getting involved?" she shrugs "Good luck finding an action one of them doesn't oppose. If there's a god of famine or fitness, getting anyone - including yourself - fat is a sin for them. Simple eating may be. Good gods oppose Evil actions, Evil gods oppose Good actions; Lawful gods oppose Chaotic actions, Chaotic gods oppose Lawful actions. Neutral gods oppose anything that tips the scales of balance, and so on. Yet people still do things that are good, evil, lawful, chaotic, and so on. I suspect that most of the punishment the gods mete out is more for cautionary tales so folks can learn things than for main purpose."

Chase looks like he is about to argue more but then shrugs: "I think it's unwise but I guess you do what you gotta do."

"Or just different life experiences; someone who hates their life will have little problem with the idea of getting pulled from it and sent elsewhere. Hardly matters, though."

Bond's body language clearly indicate an increase in annoyance but he bites his tongue. Tollens's friendly face doesn't faulter.

"It was also a philosophical problem in the prior world... or perhaps we have a disagreement of what I mean when I say 'hard evidence'. Consider: Suppose for a moment that the many worlds hypothesis were true, that there is no way to contact the prior world, and that there was a very powerful entity which, for one reason or another, wanted very much to convince us that this is a simulation; in such a scenario, what would you expect to find that concretely disproved a simulation? We can go the opposite direction with that, of course, and suppose that the simulation hypothesis is true, feeding off our minds to build the simulation, and 'wants' to convince us it's real; in such a situation, what would you expect to find that concretely disproved a many worlds scenario?"

"Under a two category system, anything that would make many world more likely is generally things that makes simulation more likely and vice-versa, since probability comes in finite quantities. Things that makes makes simulation are generally related to finite processing power, bugs, contact with the operator, and shortcuts in programming as well as sloppy programming. Things that makes many worlds more likely are less constrained but off the top of the bat I would expect that we could somehow contact Earth, consistent laws of nature when we discover them, and a certain level of overall consistency. Further, I would expect there to be other worlds like the one earth is in."

"In so far as answering your specific question, if there is a nigh omnipotent being whose abilities were unknown to us who spent every waking our with their attention directed as us and intentionally put clues that implied we were in a simulation and blocked or removed clues that implied many-worlds we wouldn't have any way of knowing. If such an entity would become known to us though we could potentially learn it's abilities, motivations and limitations, and learn how to distract it."

"But high level discussions aside, let's try a stap at low level experiments. I'll get some people on a little landscaping. Divination spells doesn't work on Earth so I am reasonably sure that someone or something is either blocking magic going to it or it's in a deadmagic zone. And if earth exist we can be reasonably confident that the humans there have souls given that humans here does, so there's a chance that we might find some in one of the afterlifes. It is similarly plausible that a sufficiently powerful god can confirm that Earth exist. That said I'm down for burning some funds on a few wishes and hopefully this city have just the right trick."

She then shifts his attention away from Jack and telepathically sends: 'Castle! Activate the Jewel and summon wealth!'

The casle is to activate Jewel of Everlasting Gold (https://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic-items/artifacts/major-artifacts/the-jewel-of-everlasting-gold/)'s monthly ability to generate wealth from the elemental plane of Earth. It doesn't specify how much it can summon but given that it can create 50,000 gold, I'd guess it's a lot, and it includes gems so it should be able to make diamonds for wish. Only diamonds for 4 wishes should be transported to their location.

Preparation for the gathering

Once things have cooled down and Chase have a little time on his hands, he'll head back to the castle and enter the secret hideout of the witches.

She walks through the small labyrinth of seemingly innocent hallways before knocking the secret pattern on the stone wall which allows her to enter.

The room is dimly lit although the big letters above the internal entrance declaring that this is the coven of 'the Daughters of the Witches you failed to burn'.

Once entered she'll send a friendly smile to the many young witches that study at the academy by day, and seek out the most powerful of the witches, who technically is a level 15 oracle but that was a minor detail, and quiz her on her personal beliefs and oppinioins.

Chase wants to get a better understanding on the oracle, whose soul there is a copy of in the simulacrums. What her dreams and hopes are specifically, as well as general personality. I haven't written a background for her although Chase might have. Should I write out a background?

Jack_Simth

2018-05-28, 11:27 AM

Base
"What do you mean, kill the old? I never really looked at the flavour of magic jar much. I thought it just exchanged souls?"

The man in a woman's ... well, not quite 'body' grimances "Magic Jar (https://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic/all-spells/m/magic-jar/) is a temporary replacement, and mostly undoes things if everyone's still in range when the spell expires, yes. Parasitic Soul (https://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic/all-spells/p/parasitic-soul/), not so much. It permanently places a soul - not necessarily one's own - into another body, and doesn't keep the original around. It's mostly useful for permanently planting your minion in someone else to act as an agent, or to co-opt a powerful enemy's body. But it also works as a cheap raise dead for a captured soul... if you don't care about the prior occupant of the body. Hence why I'm planning on using herd beasts. They're relatively ethical."

"Under a two category system, anything that would make many world more likely is generally things that makes simulation more likely and vice-versa, since probability comes in finite quantities. Things that makes makes simulation are generally related to finite processing power, bugs, contact with the operator, and shortcuts in programming as well as sloppy programming. Things that makes many worlds more likely are less constrained but off the top of the bat I would expect that we could somehow contact Earth, consistent laws of nature when we discover them, and a certain level of overall consistency. Further, I would expect there to be other worlds like the one earth is in."

"In so far as answering your specific question, if there is a nigh omnipotent being whose abilities were unknown to us who spent every waking our with their attention directed as us and intentionally put clues that implied we were in a simulation and blocked or removed clues that implied many-worlds we wouldn't have any way of knowing. If such an entity would become known to us though we could potentially learn it's abilities, motivations and limitations, and learn how to distract it."

He tilts his head "Potentially, yes. But not necessarily. Additionally... there were super-funky things in physics in the prior world. For one example: the heat and pressure at the core of the sun does not make protons sufficiently energetic to actually collide... yet when they get close enough, there's a probability that they'll interact and fuse regardless of the lack of contact. That could just be weird physics, or that could be rounding errors in a simulation. Which goes back to what I mean when I say no 'hard' evidence is possible: We can get lots of 'soft' evidence - things that push our perception of probabilities one way or another - and there will be a point at which we consider it 'good enough' and for our own purposes; but there will always be the possibility of something we're unaware of that would change our minds if we knew about it - a simulation with more resources than we expect producing something seamless enough to not seem to be a simulation, an entity we can't oppose tweaking results to make things look different from what they are, a quirk in local consistent physics that looks similar to a simulation artifact, and so on."

"But high level discussions aside, let's try a stap at low level experiments. I'll get some people on a little landscaping. Divination spells doesn't work on Earth so I am reasonably sure that someone or something is either blocking magic going to it or it's in a deadmagic zone. And if earth exist we can be reasonably confident that the humans there have souls given that humans here does, so there's a chance that we might find some in one of the afterlifes. It is similarly plausible that a sufficiently powerful god can confirm that Earth exist. That said I'm down for burning some funds on a few wishes and hopefully this city have just the right trick."

He chuckles "Keep in mind, we can't necessarily trust the answers, whether that's due to lack of knowledge on a deity's part, a deity lying for their own purposes, and so on."

He considers a moment, and asks "Side note: How are you getting gems in such quantity that you don't care about the cost of four Wishes? I know how I'd go about it, but it would take most of a month for me to get there... well, unless I was planar binding folks or something."

She then shifts his attention away from Jack and telepathically sends: 'Castle! Activate the Jewel and summon wealth!'

The casle is to activate Jewel of Everlasting Gold (https://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic-items/artifacts/major-artifacts/the-jewel-of-everlasting-gold/)'s monthly ability to generate wealth from the elemental plane of Earth. It doesn't specify how much it can summon but given that it can create 50,000 gold, I'd guess it's a lot, and it includes gems so it should be able to make diamonds for wish. Only diamonds for 4 wishes should be transported to their location.

There was some discussion of limits on this thing on Discord when I was shuffling over here... Drack mentioned a limit on the wealth creation, which suggests there was some discussion with ThreadNecro5 on it.

Also: If there is a limit, I've got spells - readied, even - by which we can triple that... and possibly free the wealth from the "can't leave the castle" restriction.

Sønderjye

2018-05-29, 04:40 PM

Base

Jack quoted an old conversation saying that the summoned wealth were worth 200,000 gp so parts of the following is under the assumption that we we'll have diamond worth that ammount of money.

"Magic Jar (https://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic/all-spells/m/magic-jar/) is a temporary replacement, and mostly undoes things if everyone's still in range when the spell expires, yes. Parasitic Soul (https://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic/all-spells/p/parasitic-soul/), not so much. It permanently places a soul - not necessarily one's own - into another body, and doesn't keep the original around. It's mostly useful for permanently planting your minion in someone else to act as an agent, or to co-opt a powerful enemy's body. But it also works as a cheap raise dead for a captured soul... if you don't care about the prior occupant of the body. Hence why I'm planning on using herd beasts. They're relatively ethical."

"I think you'll find that ethics will need to be shifted significantly if isn't a simulations. Souls have the potential to life forever. The human brain can only poorly imagine a decade, that's why you see that the length of a jail sentence have little impact on how much a crime is commited. So our intuitions don't stand a chance in imagine the moral worth of a being who litterally can continue having experiences forever. Intuitively I'll agree that sentient experience have more worth than that of an animal but they are on the same scale and there 5 minutes of sentient experiences doesn't beat 5 million years of animal experience." Tollens were getting more and more animated but then takes a deep breath before continueing: "I'm not trying to presume that you haven't given this proper thought but I also know that I made an huge ethical mistake shortly after getting here and am still trying to correct it. So I urge you to figure out whether the spell merely moves the soul to the afterlife or actually destroys it. And if it's the latter, explore the possibility of finding or creation something soulless, or using creatures that have a strictly negative utility value in the overall picture."

"Potentially, yes. But not necessarily. Additionally... there were super-funky things in physics in the prior world. For one example: the heat and pressure at the core of the sun does not make protons sufficiently energetic to actually collide... yet when they get close enough, there's a probability that they'll interact and fuse regardless of the lack of contact. That could just be weird physics, or that could be rounding errors in a simulation. Which goes back to what I mean when I say no 'hard' evidence is possible: We can get lots of 'soft' evidence - things that push our perception of probabilities one way or another - and there will be a point at which we consider it 'good enough' and for our own purposes; but there will always be the possibility of something we're unaware of that would change our minds if we knew about it - a simulation with more resources than we expect producing something seamless enough to not seem to be a simulation, an entity we can't oppose tweaking results to make things look different from what they are, a quirk in local consistent physics that looks similar to a simulation artifact, and so on."

"I hadn't heard about those before", Tollens says to the jack in the womans not-quite body: "But that does shift upward the probability that both earth and this place is a simulation compared to the something on Earth running this as a simulation, as well as compared to the many-worlds theory. It's all about what your prior expectation of finding certain evidence under the competing theories and shifting the probability when you find something that are more likely to be find in one compared to another. I'm not really seeing the problem here. We can never know anything with 100% certainty, reality just doesn't work that way. Our job is to accumulate evidence pointing in one direction until we reach a satisfying level of certainty while being aware of possible experiment flaws and trying to correct for as many of them as we can."

"Keep in mind, we can't necessarily trust the answers, whether that's due to lack of knowledge on a deity's part, a deity lying for their own purposes, and so on."

"That", she acknowledges: "Or they could give us the true answer and override our mind, or place a compulsion on us to make us forget whenever we learned the actual answer. I think a really important avenue of exploration is whether the local gods know that a significant number of very powerful beings were just transported into their realm."

"Side note: How are you getting gems in such quantity that you don't care about the cost of four Wishes? I know how I'd go about it, but it would take most of a month for me to get there... well, unless I was planar binding folks or something."

Chase considers for a moment how much information he should share but ends up deciding that he wants to build a trusting relationship with this Jack and trusting included sharing information: "We have an artifact that once a month can produce a lot of wealth from the one of the elemental planes. Jewel of something. We also have a deep well that produces as much gold as you want. None of the material can be removed from the city though. We also have the Book of the Damned if that's rings any bells, and you're standing on the Castle of the Storm King after I made some modifications to it. Which reminds, what kind of good stuff do you have that carried over from Genesis?"

He stands in silence and then a whole in the ground opens and diamonds worth 100k appears on a small pedistal that slowly emerge from the ground. "A sentient castle is useful, whatever the safety conserns", she says with a smug smile: "Let's get started, you got anyone who could be send?"

Jack_Simth

2018-05-29, 09:31 PM

Jack quoted an old conversation saying that the summoned wealth were worth 200,000 gp so parts of the following is under the assumption that we we'll have diamond worth that ammount of money.

Note: That conversation in question was between me and Drack while we were sorting out a few of the details of me coming into this thread. You weren't involved, and Drack didn't exactly sound certain on the number. I was running under the assumption that you didn't want The Jewel of Everlasting Gold making an arbitrarily large amount of spell components all at once and house-ruled a limit on the gems it can make in a PM conversation with a Blue Rose Society member. If I'm incorrect on that, please let me know.

Side note: Is the beast just biding it's time and seemingly skipping it's turn, or have you simply not gotten to the battle yet? If Chase actually manages to get killed, we may need to back up and redo this conversation.

"I think you'll find that ethics will need to be shifted significantly if isn't a simulations. Souls have the potential to life forever. The human brain can only poorly imagine a decade, that's why you see that the length of a jail sentence have little impact on how much a crime is commited. So our intuitions don't stand a chance in imagine the moral worth of a being who litterally can continue having experiences forever. Intuitively I'll agree that sentient experience have more worth than that of an animal but they are on the same scale and there 5 minutes of sentient experiences doesn't beat 5 million years of animal experience." Tollens were getting more and more animated but then takes a deep breath before continueing: "I'm not trying to presume that you haven't given this proper thought but I also know that I made an huge ethical mistake shortly after getting here and am still trying to correct it. So I urge you to figure out whether the spell merely moves the soul to the afterlife or actually destroys it. And if it's the latter, explore the possibility of finding or creation something soulless, or using creatures that have a strictly negative utility value in the overall picture."
Ephermial Recollection pauses a moment, takes a breath, changes her mind, and takes a slightly different track "You're missing something: For this purpose, it doesn't actually matter whether we and everything else here are a simulation or we are in an alternate reality. Only under the dream hypothesis is one freed from moral restraints ... and even then, until such time as one has control of the dream, one needs to operate within it as though it were 'real enough' in order to prevent it from becoming a nightmare. As to the question of 'moving them on' or 'killing them for good'... I suppose that's a good point. At least one spell hasn't behaved quite like I anticipated. To test... I suppose the simplest way would be to get an animal, kill it with the spell in question, dismiss the spell, and then attempt to raise the victim. Doable... would need to wait a bit, though, for me to gather materials. Still, I was planning on saving up for a few Resurrection spells anyway for the next time I run across another 'oops' moment, and souls in a gemstones will keep for a few weeks without much issue."

"I hadn't heard about those before", Tollens says to the jack in the womans not-quite body: "But that does shift upward the probability that both earth and this place is a simulation compared to the something on Earth running this as a simulation, as well as compared to the many-worlds theory. It's all about what your prior expectation of finding certain evidence under the competing theories and shifting the probability when you find something that are more likely to be find in one compared to another. I'm not really seeing the problem here. We can never know anything with 100% certainty, reality just doesn't work that way. Our job is to accumulate evidence pointing in one direction until we reach a satisfying level of certainty while being aware of possible experiment flaws and trying to correct for as many of them as we can."
She nods "OK, so we've cleared up the communication issue, then; we're agreed that it's reasonable that we'll eventually find enough soft evidence to satisfy us, but true hard evidence is unlikely."

"That", she acknowledges: "Or they could give us the true answer and override our mind, or place a compulsion on us to make us forget whenever we learned the actual answer. I think a really important avenue of exploration is whether the local gods know that a significant number of very powerful beings were just transported into their realm."
The spectral nymph considers "... if we're contacting them to ask them things I'm pretty sure they'll know we're here. Got a list of questions? I can get as many Commune and Vision spells as you like in short order. Simulacrum spells too, if you'll want help with the gardening."

Chase considers for a moment how much information he should share but ends up deciding that he wants to build a trusting relationship with this Jack and trusting included sharing information: "We have an artifact that once a month can produce a lot of wealth from the one of the elemental planes. Jewel of something. We also have a deep well that produces as much gold as you want. None of the material can be removed from the city though. We also have the Book of the Damned if that's rings any bells, and you're standing on the Castle of the Storm King after I made some modifications to it. Which reminds, what kind of good stuff do you have that carried over from Genesis?"
She shrugs "I left most of it behind, honestly... I'm not really capable of using the juicier artifacts - the id portraits - myself, and the base itself isn't exactly mobile. I did keep a couple of spawn I'd collected on guild raids - a Mute hag, a Winter hag, and an Annis hag - which I carefully keep under my thumb, as I'd rather not let that chaotic evil crew loose on any world. But with proper application, they're very, very useful. Side note: While the guild lords are absent... I would not advise trying to raid the old base. You might find yourself on a timeless dead magic plane that has no exits if you accidentally trigger the wrong trap."

She also considers the information a moment "... if the gem has some value limit, you may wish to ask for raw, uncut gemstones; I have Fabricate, which could be used to triple your limit fairly readily. The gold well... hmm. I wonder if things Fabricated from the gold have the same limitation... theoretically, the original materials are destroyed because they're components... well, that one's at least easy to check; mind showing me the well? I'll just Fabricate a nice art object out of the gold, then we can toss it over the side of the city and see what happens. I suppose I'll also want to prepare Wall of Iron tomorrow to see if other spell results are tied too.... As to the book: Why would you want it?"

He stands in silence and then a whole in the ground opens and diamonds worth 100k appears on a small pedistal that slowly emerge from the ground. "A sentient castle is useful, whatever the safety conserns", she says with a smug smile: "Let's get started, you got anyone who could be send?"
The nymph considers "Not that fit my major criteria, no. I could have a simulacrum shortly easily enough, but for sending someone, the less magical the better. Are you familiar with any nearby towns? Ideally we'd hire a stock human messenger."

"Oh, also: There was some mention that you're in soul debt to an overpowered extra planar entity? What do you know about it so far?"

Sønderjye

2018-05-30, 02:31 AM

"You're missing something: For this purpose, it doesn't actually matter whether we and everything else here are a simulation or we are in an alternate reality. Only under the dream hypothesis is one freed from moral restraints ... and even then, until such time as one has control of the dream, one needs to operate within it as though it were 'real enough' in order to prevent it from becoming a nightmare. As to the question of 'moving them on' or 'killing them for good'... I suppose that's a good point. At least one spell hasn't behaved quite like I anticipated. To test... I suppose the simplest way would be to get an animal, kill it with the spell in question, dismiss the spell, and then attempt to raise the victim. Doable... would need to wait a bit, though, for me to gather materials. Still, I was planning on saving up for a few Resurrection spells anyway for the next time I run across another 'oops' moment, and souls in a gemstones will keep for a few weeks without much issue."

"Good point about", he agrees happy that Jack changed his trajectory: He then offer another advice: "Before you run actual experiments I suggest just studying the spell for a while. We have a rather extensive library in town that I can show you. I don't know how much of the information is true but the transition did give me a lot of knowledge regarding magic."

"... if we're contacting them to ask them things I'm pretty sure they'll know we're here. Got a list of questions? I can get as many Commune and Vision spells as you like in short order. Simulacrum spells too, if you'll want help with the gardening."

"Hmm. I haven't personally used Commune and haven't been in contact with any dieties. It's possible that other players have though. Perhaps it could be a priority to find the other players to coordinate efforts. In theory I'm down for Simulacrums but I am torn. On one hand creating something that enjoys living and overrall contribute to the wellbeing of others should be a good act, on the other hand we are creating something that has a mental compulsion to be our slave. There's going to be a big meeting on that exactly within the next day unless something happens which you're welcome to attend."

"I left most of it behind, honestly... I'm not really capable of using the juicier artifacts - the id portraits - myself, and the base itself isn't exactly mobile. I did keep a couple of spawn I'd collected on guild raids - a Mute hag, a Winter hag, and an Annis hag - which I carefully keep under my thumb, as I'd rather not let that chaotic evil crew loose on any world. But with proper application, they're very, very useful. Side note: While the guild lords are absent... I would not advise trying to raid the old base. You might find yourself on a timeless dead magic plane that has no exits if you accidentally trigger the wrong trap."

"Reasonable to keep them around. Why do you have them though? And is there anything else of big significance that I should know about?"

"... if the gem has some value limit, you may wish to ask for raw, uncut gemstones; I have Fabricate, which could be used to triple your limit fairly readily. The gold well... hmm. I wonder if things Fabricated from the gold have the same limitation... theoretically, the original materials are destroyed because they're components... well, that one's at least easy to check; mind showing me the well? I'll just Fabricate a nice art object out of the gold, then we can toss it over the side of the city and see what happens. I suppose I'll also want to prepare Wall of Iron tomorrow to see if other spell results are tied too.... As to the book: Why would you want it?"

"How would you...", Tollens starts looking confused before breaking into a big grin: "Ha! That's so silly but it should work. Sure, let's do that but schedule it for later testing, there's more pressing matters right now. As for the book what do I know. It was a fun raid and we had already reached max level. I guess if we're ever trying to hide from dieties it would be a good place to hang out."

"Not that fit my major criteria, no. I could have a simulacrum shortly easily enough, but for sending someone, the less magical the better. Are you familiar with any nearby towns? Ideally we'd hire a stock human messenger.

"I'm not really convinced that we can morally send someone unrelated to all of this on a journey that might kill them. If anything we should send one of us. And since you'd wink out in a deadmagic zone I guess it'll have to be me," she says with much more confidence than she actually feels: "Undeads aren't powered by magic per say and even if they are my soul should be ressurectable. Wait, let's test those things out first. You got a deadmagic plane at hand? I want to see whether undeads actually work in there and what happens to the freefloating souls you have."

"Regardless, I should prepare," she saysbefore sending a message to the Network requesting a reshuffle. A few moments later another simulacrum pops into existance and waves what looks like a dorje over him a few times. "Thanks Smith," Tollens says to the sim: "How's things on your side?"

Smith returns the smile before answering: "I'd like to say that it's boring now that the nascor have been put on standby but honestly things are pretty hectic. Folks are still processing everything but the uncertainty is hard. I see a lot of attempts of distraction. A few folks figured out how to recreate a console and the newest GTA but honestly even video games are boring when your reaction speed is so crazy high. I think we'll have more luck with competetive games. Thank gods that I.. we.. chose a crafter class, running out of spell slots would have been incredibly dull otherwise."

"I see," Tollens says looking apologetic: "We have people working on it and have everything ready for the scheduled gathering."

Smith nods and blinks out of existance before Tollens focusses her attention back on Jack as if nothing happened: "If this works though it brings up the question of why noone have travelled there before. There should be plenty malicious entities who'd want a different and honestly rather helpless hunting ground," she suddenly looks conserned: "what if the reason that noone have gone there is that nobody knows that it exist due to the deadmagic or anti-divination properties, and we somehow alert them?"

"Oh, also: There was some mention that you're in soul debt to an overpowered extra planar entity? What do you know about it so far?"

"Right," Tollen says: "It's something of an overarching threat that I need to find a solution to eventually and if you can help I would be thankful. In essense one of the gods here inherited a claim on Scourge's soul due to a retrained class choice back in Genesis. Of the Locust is the name. It's kinda of a swarm god consisting mostly of insects. Domains are Evil, Destruction, Unity, Decay, Entropy. It's currently locked away somewhere but is plotting to escape after which it intends on ending civilization. Despite being caged it influences many if ot all of the planes, including this one and at least two afterlives." A chill runs down his spine at the thought of the massive insectoid eyes that watched him back. "So yeah, even if it hadn't a claim on my soul we should at least understand if there's any real risk of that happening and if possible liquidate it."

I previously spend some time studying the simulacrum spell and made a knowledge(arcane) check to get more information about how the spell worked. The library just gives you a +3 bonus(type unknown but I'd assume competence)

Aleph Null used commune earlier. I don't know whether we are still expecting them to return, or if now whether they will be retconned out.

Do we actually want to contact other players? I think there's still too many players for a single thread but it could be cool to group a few in.

The dorje contains psychic reformation and is used to reshuffle some spells and feats.

@TN5, the sims are of course busy with the many tasks they have going on. However quite a number of them have run out of high level spells at this point so they don't have much to do until those are back up again. They therefore spend their time trying to reinvent some of the toys from Earth. They can still burn low level spell slots for the time champer and shades, so Shades to conjure the material, I assumed that it would be possibe to make the nessesary equiptment for being able to play GTA. We're looking at a base 51 roll with 200-400 people aiding for something like a +400 to +800 bonus. Let me know if you would like to handle this differently.

ThreadNecro5

2018-05-30, 04:15 PM

So first of all let me apologise for the delays originating from a number of things. Should be fine now.

Battle Royale
Scourge smiles grimly as the swing hits but his smile fades as his attack passes through. Oh well. At least this was a useful point of data, now he knew that incorporeal creatures worked as they did in Genesis. It was a weird 'concidence' how many of the same rules governed this world as governed Genesis. She throws the sword aside, letting it clank hard onto the ice.

He pays close attention to the sounds of the surroundings using his newly acquired ability to see through sounds, however he quickly realizes that he is completely blind to the soundless creature. This was an interesting challenge.

He opens a portal to his left and pull out a staff, from which he conjured an artic storm that completely covers him.

Free: Drop weapon
Move: Summon item from cache
Standard action: Casting Polar Midnight from staff on top of himself. Glimpse of the akashi says that it adds CL to damage rolls however it isn't clear to me if that includes spell damage and ability damage. I'll roll without it here.
Fort DC 44.
Damage [roll0] 24 and dex damage [roll1] 12. Scourge is immune to both types. Edit: I forgot that Crafter's Art adds +10 damage so it's actually 24 cold damage and 12 dex damage.
He then floats 5 feet upwards and tries to hide in the icy storm, stealth: [roll2].

Scourge pays extra attention to how the creature reacts once he can see it again [roll3].
Scourge have blindsight running but it depend on sound. I am assuming that this doesn't help him.

Knowledge(whatever it's type is): [roll4]
Knowledge(arcane) to identify current spell effects: [roll5]
Spellcraft to identify the spell cast: [roll6]

Glimpse of the Akashic: 4 rounds left

Glimpse of the Akashic says it effects all damage rolls, so spells too.

Incorporeal creatures make no sound

The creature is probably another wendigo-related being going by the antlers and ice theme. Indeed the fact it summoned a localised blizzard may be telling. As you have seen it also either moves vary quickly or teleports.

It has a permanent true seeing effect and the spell it uses was variant of Obscuring Mist that has an increased area and an effect not unlike a weaker variant of your own polar midnight.

Grapple: [roll0]

Edit:
Wow, almost at nat20

As you float in the mist the creature reappears from nowhere and attempts to grab you in its jaws. Catching you from a blindspot you barely peal yourself from the lunge. As you escape the creature turns to face you, its own vision unimpeded, while still in flight and then fades again into the mist, not just retreating but outright vanishing.

Chase wants to get a better understanding on the oracle, whose soul there is a copy of in the simulacrums. What her dreams and hopes are specifically, as well as general personality. I haven't written a background for her although Chase might have. Should I write out a background?

I vaguely recall getting a PM to a limit but don't recall it. 200,000 looks about right though. Diamonds are made.

Aleph Null used commune earlier. I don't know whether we are still expecting them to return, or if now whether they will be retconned out.

Do we actually want to contact other players? I think there's still too many players for a single thread but it could be cool to group a few in.
Looking at things it seems Morcleon never posted but I will PM the others.

@TN5, the sims are of course busy with the many tasks they have going on. However quite a number of them have run out of high level spells at this point so they don't have much to do until those are back up again. They therefore spend their time trying to reinvent some of the toys from Earth. They can still burn low level spell slots for the time champer and shades, so Shades to conjure the material, I assumed that it would be possibe to make the nessesary equiptment for being able to play GTA. We're looking at a base 51 roll with 200-400 people aiding for something like a +400 to +800 bonus. Let me know if you would like to handle this differently.
I suppose that could work.

Jack_Simth

2018-05-30, 05:11 PM

"Good point about", he agrees happy that Jack changed his trajectory: He then offer another advice: "Before you run actual experiments I suggest just studying the spell for a while. We have a rather extensive library in town that I can show you. I don't know how much of the information is true but the transition did give me a lot of knowledge regarding magic."

The Jack in the ghost considers that one carefully "For that matter, I do have something I would like to look up... ran across a couple of obviously single hit dice creatures that I wasn't familiar with. It would be very interesting if they were in your library, and would tell us something useful about the transition. So yes, I would like to see the library when you've got a minute."

"Hmm. I haven't personally used Commune and haven't been in contact with any dieties. It's possible that other players have though. Perhaps it could be a priority to find the other players to coordinate efforts. In theory I'm down for Simulacrums but I am torn. On one hand creating something that enjoys living and overrall contribute to the wellbeing of others should be a good act, on the other hand we are creating something that has a mental compulsion to be our slave. There's going to be a big meeting on that exactly within the next day unless something happens which you're welcome to attend."

He looks at you askance "There's a very simple order, as old as the stories golems come from, for freeing a being under a magical compulsion to serve you ... although it did get hijacked by some new-age folks in the real world, not that it's of relevance. If you're willing to risk something with copies of your memories running around loose, the order goes like this: 'Do as thou wilt'. Yes, it's Old English, but easy enough to understand. Basically, you satisfy the requirement that the creature obeys you by ordering it to do what it chooses. Very easy for you to test if it works - just give one of your simulacrums that order, then order the same simulacrum to do something you'd never do and see if the second order is obeyed."

"Reasonable to keep them around. Why do you have them though? And is there anything else of big significance that I should know about?"

He shrugs "The spawning process is automatic. If I kill something that qualifies, it pops back up a few minutes later very eager to do what I tell it. And they're a bit annoying to keep down after that."

"How would you...", Tollens starts looking confused before breaking into a big grin: "Ha! That's so silly but it should work. Sure, let's do that but schedule it for later testing, there's more pressing matters right now. As for the book what do I know. It was a fun raid and we had already reached max level. I guess if we're ever trying to hide from dieties it would be a good place to hang out."

Jack makes an obscure comic reference "Old raccoonian saying: If it's stupid, but it works, then it's not stupid. Seriously though, I've got Fabricate prepared, and a 500 pound gold statue is less than a cubic foot; it'll take a single round to cast, then we can cast it over the side of the flying city and see whether or not the treasure is self-burying."

"I'm not really convinced that we can morally send someone unrelated to all of this on a journey that might kill them. If anything we should send one of us. And since you'd wink out in a deadmagic zone I guess it'll have to be me," she says with much more confidence than she actually feels: "Undeads aren't powered by magic per say and even if they are my soul should be ressurectable. Wait, let's test those things out first. You got a deadmagic plane at hand? I want to see whether undeads actually work in there and what happens to the freefloating souls you have."

He shrugs "It's sealed, which means either Wish transport or waiting for me to prepare the spell to link there from a different demiplane... and I'm currently out of prepared Wish spells, as well as the Trap the Soul spell I usually use to put away the hags when I'm done with them. How many gems do you get from that artifact of yours?"

"Regardless, I should prepare," she saysbefore sending a message to the Network requesting a reshuffle. A few moments later another simulacrum pops into existance and waves what looks like a dorje over him a few times. "Thanks Smith," Tollens says to the sim: "How's things on your side?"

Smith returns the smile before answering: "I'd like to say that it's boring now that the nascor have been put on standby but honestly things are pretty hectic. Folks are still processing everything but the uncertainty is hard. I see a lot of attempts of distraction. A few folks figured out how to recreate a console and the newest GTA but honestly even video games are boring when your reaction speed is so crazy high. I think we'll have more luck with competetive games. Thank gods that I.. we.. chose a crafter class, running out of spell slots would have been incredibly dull otherwise."

Jack looks at the sim a bit confused "Why not just change the speed settings in the physics engine until it's challenging again? Should be pretty straightforward if you needed to make the thing from scratch."

"I see," Tollens says looking apologetic: "We have people working on it and have everything ready for the scheduled gathering."

Smith nods and blinks out of existance before Tollens focusses her attention back on Jack as if nothing happened: "If this works though it brings up the question of why noone have travelled there before. There should be plenty malicious entities who'd want a different and honestly rather helpless hunting ground," she suddenly looks conserned: "what if the reason that noone have gone there is that nobody knows that it exist due to the deadmagic or anti-divination properties, and we somehow alert them?"

Jack shrugs "What if you get struck by a meteorite? You can imagine what-if scenarios all the live long day; at some point, though, you need to kick out of analysis paralysis and actually try something. If our simple existence doesn't put them at unacceptable levels of risk, us trying to send someone there shouldn't put them at any more."

"Right," Tollen says: "It's something of an overarching threat that I need to find a solution to eventually and if you can help I would be thankful. In essense one of the gods here inherited a claim on Scourge's soul due to a retrained class choice back in Genesis. Of the Locust is the name. It's kinda of a swarm god consisting mostly of insects. Domains are Evil, Destruction, Unity, Decay, Entropy. It's currently locked away somewhere but is plotting to escape after which it intends on ending civilization. Despite being caged it influences many if ot all of the planes, including this one and at least two afterlives." A chill runs down his spine at the thought of the massive insectoid eyes that watched him back. "So yeah, even if it hadn't a claim on my soul we should at least understand if there's any real risk of that happening and if possible liquidate it."

"Well, the first step is information gathering. Has your goal been done before? Who did it, and how? If the critter engages in the soul trade... the question becomes why? What does it get out of it? If it's doing so because it's feeding... then the best bet might simply be to erase all knowledge of it and let it starve."

A conversation on Discord made me curious as to the ruling for this game:

Greater Shadow Conjouration (https://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic/all-spells/s/shadow-conjuration/) uses "This spell functions like shadow conjuration, except that it duplicates any sorcerer or wizard conjuration (summoning) or conjuration (creation) spell of 6th level or lower..." (emphasis added)

While Shades (https://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic/all-spells/s/shades/) says it "This spell functions like shadow conjuration, except that it mimics conjuration spells of 8th level or lower..." (Emphasis added)

Is the underlined section of Shades to be taken as a removal of the class and school limits otherwise inherited from Shadow Conjouration (just like with the changing of the spell level limit, and the percentage reality), or is it to be taken as an editing error? I've seen it argued both as a removal of the class and school limits, and as a simple editing problem. When it comes to anything that's unclear, the go to answer is "ask the DM". Both Sønderjye and I took the spell for our characters, so it's somewhat relevant.

Sønderjye

2018-05-31, 03:11 AM

It's alright. Real life happens.

I see that you quoted my question regarding background of oracle but forgot to answer it. :smalltongue:

Looking at things it seems Morcleon never posted but I will PM the others.

I was talking about players from other threads. None of the players in this thread answered when I tried to talk to them on Discord so at this point I've given up on everyone but Drack. It would be nice if they returned of course :smallbiggrin:
Battle Royale

Chase feels a rush of addrenaline as he barely dodges the fangs that surely would have been his doom. This. "This is fun!", she bellows with a wide grin on her face.

She flies a little up while staying vigilant and considers his options. Given it's wendigo-like nature it probably was an outsider rather than an undead. That's good, that meant that it probably wasn't immune to mind-affecting abilities. Immunity to cold for sure and given that it hadn't seemed to suffer from attacking him it probably was immune to dexterity damage as well. That was conserning though, since immunity to physical damage was a classical undead attribute.

Given the lack of speech it probably wasn't sentient enough to have class levels so the lack of continual movements probably implied that it didn't have teleport. It was worth a shot.

Chase tightens the grip of his staff and readies himself.

Swift: Activate Bardic Performance - Dweomercraft for +4 CL.
Free: fly 5ft upwards.
Standard: Ready to cast Greater Shadow Evocation(Forcecage) next time the creature appears, DC 49, CL 27.

Glimpse of the Akashi: 3 rounds left.

Scourge has mindblank, which I think overrides true sight?

Base

"For that matter, I do have something I would like to look up... ran across a couple of obviously single hit dice creatures that I wasn't familiar with. It would be very interesting if they were in your library, and would tell us something useful about the transition. So yes, I would like to see the library when you've got a minute."

Scourge initially suggests that they should wait until after the wish but once hearing that Jack doesn't have any wishes ready he'll offer Jack to use the library, showing him the way as they talk.

"There's a very simple order, as old as the stories golems come from, for freeing a being under a magical compulsion to serve you ... although it did get hijacked by some new-age folks in the real world, not that it's of relevance. If you're willing to risk something with copies of your memories running around loose, the order goes like this: 'Do as thou wilt'. Yes, it's Old English, but easy enough to understand. Basically, you satisfy the requirement that the creature obeys you by ordering it to do what it chooses. Very easy for you to test if it works - just give one of your simulacrums that order, then order the same simulacrum to do something you'd never do and see if the second order is obeyed."

"That.. might work. They aren't golems though, they are me but in an altered way. From what I learned about the spell they aren't under magical compulsion to do whatever I say as much as they have been fundementally changed to be loyal and not consider situations in which they would be disloyal. So unless an order could fundementally change them again I'm not sure it'll work. Still, worth a shot."

"The spawning process is automatic. If I kill something that qualifies, it pops back up a few minutes later very eager to do what I tell it. And they're a bit annoying to keep down after that."

"That doesn't really explain why you have them," Tollens says with a raised eyebrow.

"Old raccoonian saying: If it's stupid, but it works, then it's not stupid. Seriously though, I've got Fabricate prepared, and a 500 pound gold statue is less than a cubic foot; it'll take a single round to cast, then we can cast it over the side of the flying city and see whether or not the treasure is self-burying."

"Sure, give it a go," Tollens says before casually throwing a bag with 100,000 gp worth of diamonds to the stranger he just met less than an hour ago.

"It's sealed, which means either Wish transport or waiting for me to prepare the spell to link there from a different demiplane... and I'm currently out of prepared Wish spells, as well as the Trap the Soul spell I usually use to put away the hags when I'm done with them. How many gems do you get from that artifact of yours?"

"Huh, that's disappointing. I guess we have to wait until tomorrow then, which reminds me, what are your classes? My main ones are sorcerer and artificer so if you need something built I'm your man. The artifact isn't gated by a certain number of gems but cannot exceed 200,000 gp worth."

"Why not just change the speed settings in the physics engine until it's challenging again? Should be pretty straightforward if you needed to make the thing from scratch."

Smith looks thoughful for a long moment: "That might actually work. Thanks shadowy thing!"

"What if you get struck by a meteorite? You can imagine what-if scenarios all the live long day; at some point, though, you need to kick out of analysis paralysis and actually try something. If our simple existence doesn't put them at unacceptable levels of risk, us trying to send someone there shouldn't put them at any more."

"Who cares about meteorites, I'll just ressurect. We need to be cautious and consider all the what-if scenarios and at least try to take procautions. If we can travel home there must be some reason why our world haven't been overrun and we'd be risking billions of lives as well with our entire civilization. Analysis paralysis is a not an excuse for lack of caution and if Earth's primary defence is that noone have discovered it, someone observing us while we send someone there is exactly the kind of thing that could spawn an invasion or worse. I'm not saying that we shouldn't but we should brainstorm the ways someone can have their eyes on us and take procautions," she pauses for a bit and then continues: "Though I suppose that if anyone were somehow listening in despite the mind blank and other scry-foiling spells they'd probably know about it anyway. Let's not talk about it in front of the NPC's though."

"Well, the first step is information gathering. Has your goal been done before? Who did it, and how? If the critter engages in the soul trade... the question becomes why? What does it get out of it? If it's doing so because it's feeding... then the best bet might simply be to erase all knowledge of it and let it starve."

"All information I don't know. I don't even know if gods needs juice of are selfsufficient yet. Or if they even can die. It's being worked on of course."

Testing

After the conversation died down it was time to do some testing.

Chase called on Bond, told her to "do as you want", watched the reaction for a while and then ordered her to kill a random guard also letting her know that there weren't any particular reason. He readies an action to throw himself in front of whatever Bond throws as the guard if she complies.

Chase summoned his utility staff and blew a few spell slots to create a demiplane with a portal, taking less than a minute to do so. "Ready?," he asks through the portal to the group consisting of Smith, a few human guards from the castle and Jack(if he opts to be there) on the other side. He then waves his slams his staff into the floor of the plane and changes it to become deadmagic.

Jack_Simth

2018-05-31, 07:56 PM

Base
Scourge initially suggests that they should wait until after the wish but once hearing that Jack doesn't have any wishes ready he'll offer Jack to use the library, showing him the way as they talk.

The corrupted nature spirit nods, and later once conversation dies down takes the time to try and look up information on the race of two cyclops-speaking humanoids she encountered earlier. Taking ten to search the library while otherwise waiting until I can re-prepare spells - using Pageant of the Peacock, of course. Results in a 74, assuming the library's +3 bonus applies.

"That.. might work. They aren't golems though, they are me but in an altered way. From what I learned about the spell they aren't under magical compulsion to do whatever I say as much as they have been fundementally changed to be loyal and not consider situations in which they would be disloyal. So unless an order could fundementally change them again I'm not sure it'll work. Still, worth a shot."

Jack shrugs "As noted, it's a really easy test to run."

"That doesn't really explain why you have them," Tollens says with a raised eyebrow.

The corrupted nature spirit furrows her brow "Huh? I covered 'I get them automatically when I kill something', 'it would be too irresponsible to let them loose' and 'they're too useful to permanently dispose of'. What do you mean by the question?"

"Sure, give it a go," Tollens says before casually throwing a bag with 100,000 gp worth of diamonds to the stranger he just met less than an hour ago.

The ridiculously-proportioned woman catches it easily, and sets it aside "That's for after preparing spells... we should start with the unlimited gold..."

(assuming I'm led to the runewell... or to a big chunk of gold created by the jewel, whichever)

She draws out some of the gold with her seemingly-bare hands, forms a chunk into a ball as she cools it off by blowing on it, and throws it away to confirm the confined radius from gold produced by the artifact. She then casts Fabricate, drawing gold from the runewell to use as the material component, forming an intricate gold statue of a diver in flight. She then sees how far away she can get it - tossing it over the side of the city and watching it fall, if it will go that far.

Immune to fire. Spells cast: Fabricate. Taking ten on the craft checks, using Pageant of the Peacock, for a result of 71 as needed.[/url]

"Huh, that's disappointing. I guess we have to wait until tomorrow then, which reminds me, what are your classes? My main ones are sorcerer and artificer so if you need something built I'm your man. The artifact isn't gated by a certain number of gems but cannot exceed 200,000 gp worth."

She ticks up the corner of her mouth as she replies "I've got a fair amount of Oracle and Bard. You could say I'm a Jack of All trades. Give me a day and I can arrange to do most things - mix it up in melee, craft magic items, cast ninth level Wizard spells... whatever. At the moment I'm in my default defensive configuration."

Smith looks thoughful for a long moment: "That might actually work. Thanks shadowy thing!"
The corrupted nature spirit shrugs, and replies with "Glad to help... I'm more curious what happens if you start producing modern power and manufacturing equipment, though. Wall of Iron spells can get you all the metal you want, Polymorph Any Object can tweak that into just about any specialty metal, and of course rubber was originally made from trees, so another Polymorph Any Object can get you large amounts of that in a permanent manner as well. If you then get materials from real sources... well, I'll let you experiment."

"Who cares about meteorites, I'll just ressurect. We need to be cautious and consider all the what-if scenarios and at least try to take procautions. If we can travel home there must be some reason why our world haven't been overrun and we'd be risking billions of lives as well with our entire civilization. Analysis paralysis is a not an excuse for lack of caution and if Earth's primary defence is that noone have discovered it, someone observing us while we send someone there is exactly the kind of thing that could spawn an invasion or worse. I'm not saying that we shouldn't but we should brainstorm the ways someone can have their eyes on us and take procautions," she pauses for a bit and then continues: "Though I suppose that if anyone were somehow listening in despite the mind blank and other scry-foiling spells they'd probably know about it anyway. Let's not talk about it in front of the NPC's though."

The corrupted nature looks at you a bit askance "A meteorite strike was just my go-to example of a low-probability event that you can't do much about in the prior world. The point is that you may want to work on your risk-assessment skills. You're worried about information gathering effects on two mind-blanked folks performing an experiment in the middle of a stealth fortress under the control of one of them... when you've got ... how many? ... reduced-power and ill-equipped copies of yourself running around the countryside just waiting to run across a group with the right combination of abilities to capture, mind-control, and interrogate one of them. It's a far more likely scenario than someone spying on full-power, divination-resistant recent arrivals in the middle of a fortress. There's a reason I don't sim myself. Self-sims are some of the most useful ones you can make... but they're also a pretty nasty security risk. I much prefer to copy arbitrary creatures that happen to have the abilities I want at the moment."

"All information I don't know. I don't even know if gods needs juice of are selfsufficient yet. Or if they even can die. It's being worked on of course."

The corrupted nature spirit nods "Right. But those are the first questions you want answered. If you can get me a list of things you want answered towards that end I can arrange for as many Commune and Vision spells as you like... starting tomorrow, when I can put the coven away again."

Testing

Chase summoned his utility staff and blew a few spell slots to create a demiplane with a portal, taking less than a minute to do so. "Ready?," he asks through the portal to the group consisting of Smith, a few human guards from the castle and Jack(if he opts to be there) on the other side. He then waves his slams his staff into the floor of the plane and changes it to become deadmagic.
[spoiler]Not for that one, no. But if you have a mortal servant that's willing to accept the cost of the immortality I can grant, I can get you a good stand-in. Or maybe just lend one of the Hags for the purpose.

Sønderjye

2018-06-01, 07:14 AM

Base

"Huh? I covered 'I get them automatically when I kill something', 'it would be too irresponsible to let them loose' and 'they're too useful to permanently dispose of'. What do you mean by the question?"

"That covered how you got them, not why you care to keep them around in the first place. You mentioned the hags when I asked you if you had some useful stuff carried over from genesis and I'm not seeing the use here."

"I've got a fair amount of Oracle and Bard. You could say I'm a Jack of All trades. Give me a day and I can arrange to do most things - mix it up in melee, craft magic items, cast ninth level Wizard spells... whatever. At the moment I'm in my default defensive configuration."

"Huh? That sounds neat. How does that work?"

"Glad to help... I'm more curious what happens if you start producing modern power and manufacturing equipment, though. Wall of Iron spells can get you all the metal you want, Polymorph Any Object can tweak that into just about any specialty metal, and of course rubber was originally made from trees, so another Polymorph Any Object can get you large amounts of that in a permanent manner as well. If you then get materials from real sources... well, I'll let you experiment."

Smith looks thoughtful for a moment and then turns to Toellens with a smile: "I like this lady. Let's ´keep her around, yeh?"

I'm a little conserned about this balance wise though. I've been using shades - Major Creation for the stuff which has an expiration date but wall of iron+polymorph any object would seem to give us unlimited material components for both mundane and magic items, which is something I stayed away from at an earlier point.
@TN5, thoughts?

"A meteorite strike was just my go-to example of a low-probability event that you can't do much about in the prior world. The point is that you may want to work on your risk-assessment skills. You're worried about information gathering effects on two mind-blanked folks performing an experiment in the middle of a stealth fortress under the control of one of them... when you've got ... how many? ... reduced-power and ill-equipped copies of yourself running around the countryside just waiting to run across a group with the right combination of abilities to capture, mind-control, and interrogate one of them. It's a far more likely scenario than someone spying on full-power, divination-resistant recent arrivals in the middle of a fortress. There's a reason I don't sim myself. Self-sims are some of the most useful ones you can make... but they're also a pretty nasty security risk. I much prefer to copy arbitrary creatures that happen to have the abilities I want at the moment."

"Perhaps it was a too big of a risk but there are several security measures. One is that they mostly stay hidden and another is a mind blank." Another was that the sims has inspired each other in clusters which gave them a continual status on each other and transfered their senses to one another on a regular basis to check in.
"We need more information, I needed capable scouts and I wasn't really comfortable making copies of any of my friends. More to the point though, I could be scry you right now, so you shouldn't feel so secure. How did you know that I have other sims that Bond out scouting?"

"Right. But those are the first questions you want answered. If you can get me a list of things you want answered towards that end I can arrange for as many Commune and Vision spells as you like... starting tomorrow, when I can put the coven away again."

"I'm more a fan of Vision that Commune. Partly I would like to delay direct contact with gods until as late as possible and partly I wouldn't trust it to answer how to kill it. But yeah, I'll throw a list together."

She draws out some of the gold with her seemingly-bare hands, forms a chunk into a ball as she cools it off by blowing on it, and throws it away to confirm the confined radius from gold produced by the artifact. She then casts Fabricate, drawing gold from the runewell to use as the material component, forming an intricate gold statue of a diver in flight. She then sees how far away she can get it - tossing it over the side of the city and watching it fall, if it will go that far.

"Badass," Tollens comments from the sidelines. She follows the gold statue with attentive eyes as it exits the range.

Testing

If you said that IC, Chase would object against it. This was our problem, not the problem of anyone in this world, so it wouldn't be right to gamble somebody else. For most intends and purposes we are gods, so our ethics need to follow.
If your objection is OOC I can have one of the simulacrums volunteer.

ThreadNecro5

2018-06-01, 02:52 PM

A conversation on Discord made me curious as to the ruling for this game:

Greater Shadow Conjouration (https://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic/all-spells/s/shadow-conjuration/) uses "This spell functions like shadow conjuration, except that it duplicates any sorcerer or wizard conjuration (summoning) or conjuration (creation) spell of 6th level or lower..." (emphasis added)

While Shades (https://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic/all-spells/s/shades/) says it "This spell functions like shadow conjuration, except that it mimics conjuration spells of 8th level or lower..." (Emphasis added)

Is the underlined section of Shades to be taken as a removal of the class and school limits otherwise inherited from Shadow Conjouration (just like with the changing of the spell level limit, and the percentage reality), or is it to be taken as an editing error? I've seen it argued both as a removal of the class and school limits, and as a simple editing problem. When it comes to anything that's unclear, the go to answer is "ask the DM". Both Sønderjye and I took the spell for our characters, so it's somewhat relevant.

Shades removes the class and school limits.

She draws out some of the gold with her seemingly-bare hands, forms a chunk into a ball as she cools it off by blowing on it, and throws it away to confirm the confined radius from gold produced by the artifact. She then casts Fabricate, drawing gold from the runewell to use as the material component, forming an intricate gold statue of a diver in flight. She then sees how far away she can get it - tossing it over the side of the city and watching it fall, if it will go that far.
The gold vanishes as it crosses the edge of the castle.

It's alright. Real life happens.

I see that you quoted my question regarding background of oracle but forgot to answer it. :smalltongue:

I was talking about players from other threads. None of the players in this thread answered when I tried to talk to them on Discord so at this point I've given up on everyone but Drack. It would be nice if they returned of course :smallbiggrin:

As to the Oracle I meant to say to give a background, yes.

As to the other players HARM has been quiet but had three rather active players. the Council of Wyrms has been similar but slower.

Golden Star died quickly with them having a member scry on some wildlife and that's about it.

Battle Royale
Chase feels a rush of addrenaline as he barely dodges the fangs that surely would have been his doom. This. "This is fun!", she bellows with a wide grin on her face.

She flies a little up while staying vigilant and considers his options. Given it's wendigo-like nature it probably was an outsider rather than an undead. That's good, that meant that it probably wasn't immune to mind-affecting abilities. Immunity to cold for sure and given that it hadn't seemed to suffer from attacking him it probably was immune to dexterity damage as well. That was conserning though, since immunity to physical damage was a classical undead attribute.

Given the lack of speech it probably wasn't sentient enough to have class levels so the lack of continual movements probably implied that it didn't have teleport. It was worth a shot.

Chase tightens the grip of his staff and readies himself.

Swift: Activate Bardic Performance - Dweomercraft for +4 CL.
Free: fly 5ft upwards.
Standard: Ready to cast Greater Shadow Evocation(Forcecage) next time the creature appears, DC 49, CL 27.

Glimpse of the Akashi: 3 rounds left.

Scourge has mindblank, which I think overrides true sight?

Mindblank would stop true seeing.

You never specified what form of forcecage is used but I'll assume the bigger

The creature appears behind you again but this time you're ready.

It is trapped and disorientated for a time thanks to the surprise.

Testing

After the conversation died down it was time to do some testing.

Chase called on Bond, told her to "do as you want", watched the reaction for a while and then ordered her to kill a random guard also letting her know that there weren't any particular reason. He readies an action to throw himself in front of whatever Bond throws as the guard if she complies.

Chase summoned his utility staff and blew a few spell slots to create a demiplane with a portal, taking less than a minute to do so. "Ready?," he asks through the portal to the group consisting of Smith, a few human guards from the castle and Jack(if he opts to be there) on the other side. He then waves his slams his staff into the floor of the plane and changes it to become deadmagic.[/quote]

"Can you elaborate on 'do as you want'" asks Bond. "Mostly is that a standing order and in what way should orders be prioritised? Really there are enough ways to interpret things. I think we've even reached a paradox. I am loyal and so do as ordered, I am ordered to do As I wish, I am ordered to kill someone, I do not wish to. You do not wish me to kill this person you ordered me to. I kill this man I betray your desires, I don't and I betray your orders. There are a lot of mental gymnastics here.

I'm a little conserned about this balance wise though. I've been using shades - Major Creation for the stuff which has an expiration date but wall of iron+polymorph any object would seem to give us unlimited material components for both mundane and magic items, which is something I stayed away from at an earlier point.
@TN5, thoughts?

I don't thibk that works anyway.

To quote the spells:

This spell cannot create material of great intrinsic value, such as copper, silver, gems, silk, gold, platinum, mithral, or adamantine.

Like any iron wall, this wall is subject to rust, perforation, and other natural phenomena. Iron created by this spell is not suitable for use in the creation of other objects and cannot be sold

Jack_Simth

2018-06-01, 10:35 PM

Base
"That covered how you got them, not why you care to keep them around in the first place. You mentioned the hags when I asked you if you had some useful stuff carried over from genesis and I'm not seeing the use here."
The man in a woman's ... well, not quite 'body' ... looks around at the crowd of reduced power clones and asks "You don't find at-will simulacrum spells useful? A standard coven has a lot of at-will abilities: clairaudience/clairvoyance, commune, control weather, dream, mind blank, reincarnate, speak with dead, and vision are some of the highlights. Getting the right hags in the mix can add other useful ones, like Simulacrum... and due to a quirk of how they work, they're all just one round casting times. That's in addition to any abilities individual hags have... a mute hag, for instance, gets the ability to apply a permanent Alter Self to others, and has an at-will cure light wounds. They're balls of hate, but can do a lot of good if they're kept controlled."

"Huh? That sounds neat. How does that work?"

He shrugs "The Spirit Guide Oracle archetype does the heavy lifting, mostly."

"Perhaps it was a too big of a risk but there are several security measures. One is that they mostly stay hidden and another is a mind blank." Another was that the sims has inspired each other in clusters which gave them a continual status on each other and transfered their senses to one another on a regular basis to check in.
"We need more information, I needed capable scouts and I wasn't really comfortable making copies of any of my friends. More to the point though, I could be scry you right now, so you shouldn't feel so secure. How did you know that I have other sims that Bond out scouting?"

He raises an eyebrow "It wasn't intended to be obvious? You've had quite a few running around here, and you've been rather blasé about them; you're acting as though they're a cheap resource, which means they're not in short supply. Add to that the low probability of me just happening to run across the one scout you sent out - given the apparent size of the world and how far from your base - and 'you had a lot of scouts running around' is the safe bet. Plus, of course, you just confirmed it."

He continues "As to scrying, I keep multiple distinct anti-divination measures running, and have had only modest interactions with the people of this realm. You're essentially the only one who is likely to know enough about me to check, and while there are ways around just about anything... methods around anti-divination measures tend towards being specific to the target - if you don't know to check, you're going to have problems bypassing them. That's not relevant, though: I'm not speaking of absolutes, I'm speaking of probabilities, which is where much of risk analysis resides. One experiment, in a concealed and mobile fortress, which few have had opportunity to find out about is unlikely to garner much notice. You've got a gaggle of them running around exploring the world. Suppose one of them encountered a few folks built much like you. Would you notice your copy as being out of place? Would you have methods by which to contain and suborn your copy in the timeframe between when your collective would become aware of the problem and be able to mount a response? Would someone like you be able to take a suborned Simulacrum somewhere they'd be hard enough to find and reach to buy time to do a detailed interrogation? Sure, the probability of such a thing may be vanishingly small - smaller, even, than the probability of our Wish-based experiment getting noticed - but the cumulative probability of a thing happening at least once goes up with every attempt - in this case, with each scout. Mathmatically, the probability of a 1 on a fair hundred sided dice is just one percent per roll; over the course of a hundred rolls, though, the probability of at least one rolling a 1 works out to something like sixty percent (I'd have to stop and do the math to get you an exact figure, but that's the ballpark). Your worry about someone finding out about the prior world may be legitimate... but it's a lot more likely to happen from the risk you've already accepted - knowingly or not - in sending out the zillion scouts, and the Wish Transport test will at least give us some measure of how much effort it takes to breach that barrier... I'm assuming you've already tried Plane Shift and Gate?"

He pauses "Although if our world is a dead-magic plane, it's unlikely anything from here is a meaningful threat to the world as a whole. Most self-replicating types are Su-based, and anti-tank weaponry would probably do well against what few things have Ex-based Create Spawn."

"I'm more a fan of Vision that Commune. Partly I would like to delay direct contact with gods until as late as possible and partly I wouldn't trust it to answer how to kill it. But yeah, I'll throw a list together."

"Badass," Tollens comments from the sidelines. She follows the gold statue with attentive eyes as it exits the range.

He shrugs "Eh, it was just the most expedient method. It's not like fire resistance is rare. While it might be a bad idea for me to try scuba-diving in there, partial contact? Not a problem."

The busty man pauses "Although now that I think about it, you probably have gold working tools nearby just for doing this sort of thing, don't you?"

Testing

If you said that IC, Chase would object against it. This was our problem, not the problem of anyone in this world, so it wouldn't be right to gamble somebody else. For most intends and purposes we are gods, so our ethics need to follow.
If your objection is OOC I can have one of the simulacrums volunteer.
Mostly, it's that getting me on a dead magic plane is one of the very few ways of getting rid of me pretty much permanently (Wish-transport rescue would work... probably... but would require someone on the outside checking for the need). I'll cheerfully share information, feed you ideas, and aid in your endeavors provided you seem willing enough to do the same ... but I don't trust you that much. The given response when you suggest the experiment would be that if something does go wrong, better to have someone available who can repeatedly attempt to Wish-transport you out (and revive you if necessary) with the gems already created. Especially as you've only got one way to test if the soul-debt has the possibility of overriding your respawn mechanism if the dead magic zone does in fact kill you.

The gold vanishes as it crosses the edge of the castle.
He nods, and says "So next we'll want to find out how deep that goes - iron created by Wall of Iron powered by gold from the well? What about a spell effect powered by such treasure tied to someone? Will such a person get 'stuck'? Does the spell go away when they cross the threshhold? Ditto for someone with Inherent bonuses from a Wish. Still... good to know."

Jack pauses a moment, remembers a few details from the game, and asks "Oh, also: As the treasure from the Jewel of Everlasting Gold just returns to a place in the treasure city, it's not really a problem if I try walking away with one of the diamonds, as they don't vanish, they just go back into the city, correct? I've got a secondary experiment I'd like to try..."

(Assuming that I get an affirmative)

Jack takes one of the diamonds from the bag, focuses on being the Whispering Tyrant, and walks it out of the city.

The Jewel of Everlasting Gold (https://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic-items/artifacts/major-artifacts/the-jewel-of-everlasting-gold/) mentions that the Whispering Tyrant can take the treasure it produces out of the city. A different artifact, the Spear of Shards (https://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic-items/artifacts/minor-artifacts/spear-of-shards-minor-artifact/), has a note about using Use Magic Device to trick that artifact, giving a nice little precident. I'd like to check and see if I can do that with the Jewel of Everlasting Gold's results.

So: UMD check: [roll0]

"Can you elaborate on 'do as you want'" asks Bond. "Mostly is that a standing order and in what way should orders be prioritised? Really there are enough ways to interpret things. I think we've even reached a paradox. I am loyal and so do as ordered, I am ordered to do As I wish, I am ordered to kill someone, I do not wish to. You do not wish me to kill this person you ordered me to. I kill this man I betray your desires, I don't and I betray your orders. There are a lot of mental gymnastics here.
Jack nods "So a partial success... you're not freed from the compulsion, but until such time as the 'freedom order' is countermanded, you've at least got the option of weighting the 'freedom order' over others."

I don't thibk that works anyway.

To quote the spells:

Ah, right. Forgot about those clauses. Ah well. Still, that just means they need to get other materials, and both oil and metals are taken from the earth, so should be available from the Jewel... in a month.

Also: How'd the library search for the Cyclops-speaking fishermen go? Books in games tend to be super-short, and just have a quick mechanical effect, because writing a book takes a lot of effort. Yet they're very likely to now be full books... I'm very, very curious about the information contained, whether it's a bunch of mostly-blank tomes or whether they've been filled with information... and if they have been filled, whether that's information from the game or for this world.

Sønderjye

2018-06-02, 07:59 AM

Battle Royale
Scourge jumps 5 feet backwards and extending her arms to the side in a manner of a fight commentates she declares in a thundering voice: "WELCOME.. TO THE THUNDERDOME!"

She then hits the air in front of her, the shockwave following her fist aims straight towards the being. "Succumb!", she orders it.
She hits the air again, yet another shockwave forming. "Succumb!"
Shockwave. "Succumb!"
Shockwave. "Succumb!"
Shockwave. "Succumb!"

Now in close proximity of the being she lets her practiced facade falls and reveals the true horror beneath.

She then taps into her undead energies and tries to overwhelm the being.

Fear Aura from Lich: Will DC 45 or shaken. There's also a fear aura with the same DC from Nightmare creature but I would assume they don't overlap.

Can I do a perform check as a free action to appear dramatic. No real mechanical benefit: [roll0]. Frightful presense activates but the creature (presumably) have more HD than me.

Full attack: 5 Sound Waves
Attack 1: [roll1] dmg [roll2]
Attack 2: [roll3] dmg [roll4]
Attack 3: [roll5] dmg [roll6]
Attack 4: [roll7] dmg [roll8]
Attack 5: [roll9] dmg [roll10]

Swift: Quickened Command Undead

Correct, the bigger forcecage.

Glimpse of the Akashi: 2 more rounds

Base

"You don't find at-will simulacrum spells useful? A standard coven has a lot of at-will abilities: clairaudience/clairvoyance, commune, control weather, dream, mind blank, reincarnate, speak with dead, and vision are some of the highlights. Getting the right hags in the mix can add other useful ones, like Simulacrum... and due to a quirk of how they work, they're all just one round casting times. That's in addition to any abilities individual hags have... a mute hag, for instance, gets the ability to apply a permanent Alter Self to others, and has an at-will cure light wounds. They're balls of hate, but can do a lot of good if they're kept controlled."

Scourge's eyes widen: "That.. sounds super useful. Dang, I must have been more out of the loop than I knew."

"As to scrying, I keep multiple distinct anti-divination measures running, and have had only modest interactions with the people of this realm. You're essentially the only one who is likely to know enough about me to check, and while there are ways around just about anything... methods around anti-divination measures tend towards being specific to the target - if you don't know to check, you're going to have problems bypassing them. That's not relevant, though: I'm not speaking of absolutes, I'm speaking of probabilities, which is where much of risk analysis resides. One experiment, in a concealed and mobile fortress, which few have had opportunity to find out about is unlikely to garner much notice. You've got a gaggle of them running around exploring the world. Suppose one of them encountered a few folks built much like you. Would you notice your copy as being out of place? Would you have methods by which to contain and suborn your copy in the timeframe between when your collective would become aware of the problem and be able to mount a response? Would someone like you be able to take a suborned Simulacrum somewhere they'd be hard enough to find and reach to buy time to do a detailed interrogation? Sure, the probability of such a thing may be vanishingly small - smaller, even, than the probability of our Wish-based experiment getting noticed - but the cumulative probability of a thing happening at least once goes up with every attempt - in this case, with each scout. Mathmatically, the probability of a 1 on a fair hundred sided dice is just one percent per roll; over the course of a hundred rolls, though, the probability of at least one rolling a 1 works out to something like sixty percent (I'd have to stop and do the math to get you an exact figure, but that's the ballpark). Your worry about someone finding out about the prior world may be legitimate... but it's a lot more likely to happen from the risk you've already accepted - knowingly or not - in sending out the zillion scouts, and the Wish Transport test will at least give us some measure of how much effort it takes to breach that barrier... I'm assuming you've already tried Plane Shift and Gate?"

"You make a compelling case. No, I haven't tried to get back using Plane Shift or Gate. I suppose we should try out those before blowing diamonds."

"Eh, it was just the most expedient method. It's not like fire resistance is rare. While it might be a bad idea for me to try scuba-diving in there, partial contact? Not a problem." The busty man pauses "Although now that I think about it, you probably have gold working tools nearby just for doing this sort of thing, don't you?"

"Oh, come on. You can't claim that you don't think that picking up liquid gold with your bare hands isn't badass?" He pauses for a moment as he makes a realization: "You actually don't? Try to imagine that you were back on Earth, would you find the idea badass there?"

Chase was in a dark place when he created Ziana, the oracle warrior, and had a fondsness for pain and suffering as well as admiration.
Ziana hates trolls since they killed her siblings. She was raised in the city of Tolgos by her lone mother who barely scrapped by doing underpaid servant work when the opportunity presented itself. One winter it became so bad that the mother sold her off to slavery. She killed two sets of owners with her bare hands before they put her in the gladiatory to get killed by dinosaurs. That was until Scourge heroicly rescued her from certain death.
She have found a family in the Rashinhi Sisterhood(the witch-cult Scourge have on the castle) and cares little for those outside of it. She will kill anybody who she thinks will threaten it or her fellow witches.
She's a sadomasochist and both enjoys causing and experiencing pain. She also enjoys painting, chess and poetry.

Testing

"Can you elaborate on 'do as you want'" asks Bond. "Mostly is that a standing order and in what way should orders be prioritised? Really there are enough ways to interpret things. I think we've even reached a paradox. I am loyal and so do as ordered, I am ordered to do As I wish, I am ordered to kill someone, I do not wish to. You do not wish me to kill this person you ordered me to. I kill this man I betray your desires, I don't and I betray your orders. There are a lot of mental gymnastics here.

"What would happen if I told you that that order should be considered the utter top priority?"

[spoiler=OOC]Mostly, it's that getting me on a dead magic plane is one of the very few ways of getting rid of me pretty much permanently (Wish-transport rescue would work... probably... but would require someone on the outside checking for the need). I'll cheerfully share information, feed you ideas, and aid in your endeavors provided you seem willing enough to do the same ... but I don't trust you that much. The given response when you suggest the experiment would be that if something does go wrong, better to have someone available who can repeatedly attempt to Wish-transport you out (and revive you if necessary) with the gems already created. Especially as you've only got one way to test if the soul-debt has the possibility of overriding your respawn mechanism if the dead magic zone does in fact kill you.[/OOC]

I didn't say that you were in the dead magic zone, I need to be in the plane to change it's traits so Tollens is looking at your through the portal. You are outside and available for attempting a wish transport out the next day.

Reverse Rumour Mongering

The scouts are told to gather information about various subjects.

Taking 10 on Gather Information for 49(plus assists)
Information about someone or something that once killed a god.
If no possible then gather information about something that severely weakened or imprisoned a god.
Information about good places to go or people to question to learn about gods.
Information about good places to go or people to question to learn about magic.
Information about good places to go or people to question to learn about souls.
Information about good places to go or people to question to learn about Earth.
Information about beings more powerful than gods.

Necropolis

The necropolis team is send to gather information about people from Earth as well as using Seek thoughts to find former earthlings.

Jack_Simth

2018-06-02, 02:14 PM

Scourge's eyes widen: "That.. sounds super useful. Dang, I must have been more out of the loop than I knew."

Ephermial Recollection shrugs "Hence keeping them around, yes."

"You make a compelling case. No, I haven't tried to get back using Plane Shift or Gate. I suppose we should try out those before blowing diamonds."
She shrugs "Plane Shift, at least, is on my normal known list... I don't really expect it to be sufficient, but are you up for risking going now?" ER pauses, and adds "Also Dismissal, if you're up for that one."

"Oh, come on. You can't claim that you don't think that picking up liquid gold with your bare hands isn't badass?" He pauses for a moment as he makes a realization: "You actually don't? Try to imagine that you were back on Earth, would you find the idea badass there?"

Ephermial Recollection sighs "That's not it, actually... but the only people who actually get it if I try to explain are the folks that have known me for years; the rest think I'm lying, joking, deluded, exaggerating, or otherwise being false. So... I'm not going to explain today."

I didn't say that you were in the dead magic zone, I need to be in the plane to change it's traits so Tollens is looking at your through the portal. You are outside and available for attempting a wish transport out the next day.
That works.

ThreadNecro5

2018-06-06, 03:29 PM

Jack takes one of the diamonds from the bag, focuses on being the Whispering Tyrant, and walks it out of the city.

The Jewel of Everlasting Gold (https://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic-items/artifacts/major-artifacts/the-jewel-of-everlasting-gold/) mentions that the Whispering Tyrant can take the treasure it produces out of the city. A different artifact, the Spear of Shards (https://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic-items/artifacts/minor-artifacts/spear-of-shards-minor-artifact/), has a note about using Use Magic Device to trick that artifact, giving a nice little precident. I'd like to check and see if I can do that with the Jewel of Everlasting Gold's results.

So: UMD check: [roll0]

I'd say no, the spear is an item that is specifically noted to be able to be tricked.

Jack nods "So a partial success... you're not freed from the compulsion, but until such time as the 'freedom order' is countermanded, you've at least got the option of weighting the 'freedom order' over others."
"I think so? That is probable but e have to wait and see".

Also: How'd the library search for the Cyclops-speaking fishermen go? Books in games tend to be super-short, and just have a quick mechanical effect, because writing a book takes a lot of effort. Yet they're very likely to now be full books... I'm very, very curious about the information contained, whether it's a bunch of mostly-blank tomes or whether they've been filled with information... and if they have been filled, whether that's information from the game or for this world.

It would be fruitless, a library originating from Genesis couldn't have information on a creature not native to it.

The books would be filled out with appropriate additional contents.

Battle Royale
Scourge jumps 5 feet backwards and extending her arms to the side in a manner of a fight commentates she declares in a thundering voice: "WELCOME.. TO THE THUNDERDOME!"

She then hits the air in front of her, the shockwave following her fist aims straight towards the being. "Succumb!", she orders it.
She hits the air again, yet another shockwave forming. "Succumb!"
Shockwave. "Succumb!"
Shockwave. "Succumb!"
Shockwave. "Succumb!"

Now in close proximity of the being she lets her practiced facade falls and reveals the true horror beneath.

She then taps into her undead energies and tries to overwhelm the being.

Fear Aura from Lich: Will DC 45 or shaken. There's also a fear aura with the same DC from Nightmare creature but I would assume they don't overlap.

Can I do a perform check as a free action to appear dramatic. No real mechanical benefit: [roll0]. Frightful presense activates but the creature (presumably) have more HD than me.

Full attack: 5 Sound Waves
Attack 1: [roll1] dmg [roll2]
Attack 2: [roll3] dmg [roll4]
Attack 3: [roll5] dmg [roll6]
Attack 4: [roll7] dmg [roll8]
Attack 5: [roll9] dmg [roll10]

Swift: Quickened Command Undead

Correct, the bigger forcecage.

Glimpse of the Akashi: 2 more rounds

Preform is fine.

Command Undead has no effect.

Rolls:
Concentration DC24: [roll0]

Waves of force pummel the creature, causing it to ripple like a sheet in the wind, even tearing brief rents into the beast.

Recovering somewhat it snarls at you and vanishes into mist, once again leaving you alone within it's summoned blizzard.

Chase was in a dark place when he created Ziana, the oracle warrior, and had a fondsness for pain and suffering as well as admiration.
Ziana hates trolls since they killed her siblings. She was raised in the city of Tolgos by her lone mother who barely scrapped by doing underpaid servant work when the opportunity presented itself. One winter it became so bad that the mother sold her off to slavery. She killed two sets of owners with her bare hands before they put her in the gladiatory to get killed by dinosaurs. That was until Scourge heroicly rescued her from certain death.
She have found a family in the Rashinhi Sisterhood(the witch-cult Scourge have on the castle) and cares little for those outside of it. She will kill anybody who she thinks will threaten it or her fellow witches.
She's a sadomasochist and both enjoys causing and experiencing pain. She also enjoys painting, chess and poetry.
Background is fine

Testing

"What would happen if I told you that that order should be considered the utter top priority?"
"Well I'd probably have to do that given that it's- Yes, prioritised orders seem to take precedence".

Reverse Rumour Mongering

The scouts are told to gather information about various subjects.

Taking 10 on Gather Information for 49(plus assists)
Information about someone or something that once killed a god.
If no possible then gather information about something that severely weakened or imprisoned a god.
Information about good places to go or people to question to learn about gods.
Information about good places to go or people to question to learn about magic.
Information about good places to go or people to question to learn about souls.
Information about good places to go or people to question to learn about Earth.
Information about beings more powerful than gods.
Just to double check, this is the scouts just asking people they find?

Information about someone or something that once killed a god.
The scouts are informed of the impossibility of the act and are unable to get relevant information.

If no possible then gather information about something that severely weakened or imprisoned a god.
A scout in a valley north of where you met Ephermial Recollection has found a city built atop and into a mountain. Asking around the human-dominated populace is fruitless but a member of a race of emaciated looking giants with a cage around it's head seems to be paying marginally more attention to you without stopping its cleaning.

Information about good places to go or people to question to learn about gods.
The scout is directed towards a priest or library by most they ask.

Information about good places to go or people to question to learn about magic.
The scout is simply told to ask a 'court wizard' which after more prodding can usually ve found attending to the nobility.

Others mention a formal academy to the south.

Information about good places to go or people to question to learn about souls.
This scout is another told to see to a priest.

Information about good places to go or people to question to learn about Earth.
Nothing is found no matter who is asked, with most attempts receiving a comment like 'What? like dirt?'.

Necropolis
The necropolis team is send to gather information about people from Earth as well as using Seek thoughts to find former earthlings.
No matter how far is searched, no Earth natives are found.

Jack_Simth

2018-06-06, 09:04 PM

I'd say no, the spear is an item that is specifically noted to be able to be tricked.

The Jack in the ghost shrugs as the gem vanishes, and says "Ah well, worth a shot. Now we just need to play a small game of hide & seek to get it back."

It would be fruitless, a library originating from Genesis couldn't have information on a creature not native to it.

The books would be filled out with appropriate additional contents.

Jack sighs at the lack of new information.
So I'll need to find a local library somewhere. OK

"Well I'd probably have to do that given that it's- Yes, prioritised orders seem to take precedence".

The spirit states "Which... mostly makes it a full success, although the question then becomes 'can the freedom order be rescinded?' - because if it can, well, it's not very effective, is it?"

Just to double check, this is the scouts just asking people they find?

Unclear. The Diplomancy (https://www.d20pfsrd.com/skills/diplomacy/) skill includes:

Gather Information

You can use Diplomacy to gather information about a specific topic or individual. To do this, you must spend at least 1d4 hours canvassing people at local taverns, markets, and gathering places. The DC of this check depends on the obscurity of the information sought, but for most commonly known facts or rumors it is 10. For obscure or secret knowledge, the DC might increase to 20 or higher. The GM might rule that some topics are simply unknown to common folk.

Retry? Yes. You can retry Diplomacy checks made to gather information.

Basically, the details are handwaived, just like most skills.

Oh, also: Sønderjye brought up on Discord that when I asked about Blood Money and Summons / Planar Bound creatures in the recruitment thread, you may not have understood that I intended to posses them via Malevolence (https://www.d20pfsrd.com/bestiary/monster-listings/templates/dread-ghost-cr-3/#TOC-Malevolence-Su-) first (looking back, I was bad at wording) so that I'm using their body and type while casting spells. Is that the case? Plan would be to Summon or Planar Bind a creature, posses it with Malevolence (https://www.d20pfsrd.com/bestiary/monster-listings/templates/dread-ghost-cr-3/#TOC-Malevolence-Su-), (functions as Magic Jar (https://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic/all-spells/m/magic-jar/)), cast Blood Money (https://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic/all-spells/b/blood-money/) to make components, then cast whatever spell I was after - Permanency, Wish, Simulacrum, et cetera.

ThreadNecro5

2018-06-08, 01:22 PM

Oh, also: Sønderjye brought up on Discord that when I asked about Blood Money and Summons / Planar Bound creatures in the recruitment thread, you may not have understood that I intended to posses them via Malevolence (https://www.d20pfsrd.com/bestiary/monster-listings/templates/dread-ghost-cr-3/#TOC-Malevolence-Su-) first (looking back, I was bad at wording) so that I'm using their body and type while casting spells. Is that the case? Plan would be to Summon or Planar Bind a creature, posses it with Malevolence (https://www.d20pfsrd.com/bestiary/monster-listings/templates/dread-ghost-cr-3/#TOC-Malevolence-Su-), (functions as Magic Jar (https://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic/all-spells/m/magic-jar/)), cast Blood Money (https://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic/all-spells/b/blood-money/) to make components, then cast whatever spell I was after - Permanency, Wish, Simulacrum, et cetera.
[/spoiler]

That would work.

Sønderjye

2018-06-08, 01:51 PM

Jack_Simth

2018-06-08, 09:41 PM

"I'm down for whatever as soon as we're tested whether I can actually survive in the being in an dead magic plane."

The corrupted nature spirit considers for a bit, and asks "Have you thought that one through? Please, stop a moment, go through the resources needed for the test, enumerate the possible outcomes you expect, what steps should be taken for each of those possible outcomes, and the associated resource costs for retrieving you from those scenarios - one of which, I imagine, will be something like 'you walk through the portal under your own power', but do include that one as well. Do the same exercise for simply attempting to send you home, and then compare the two. What do you actually gain from doing the test first?"

She continues "Don't get me wrong; it's a good idea to have a dead magic zone set up for disposal of various things, but how much does the test actually benefit you?"
Given that you want me ready to Wish-transport you out, I'm assuming we're waiting until I can prep more spells to run this test. Is that correct?

Sønderjye

2018-06-09, 04:31 AM

Base

"Have you thought that one through? Please, stop a moment, go through the resources needed for the test, enumerate the possible outcomes you expect, what steps should be taken for each of those possible outcomes, and the associated resource costs for retrieving you from those scenarios - one of which, I imagine, will be something like 'you walk through the portal under your own power', but do include that one as well. Do the same exercise for simply attempting to send you home, and then compare the two. What do you actually gain from doing the test first?"

She continues "Don't get me wrong; it's a good idea to have a dead magic zone set up for disposal of various things, but how much does the test actually benefit you?"

"Well, for one it'll tell us that whatever is powering undeads is magical or not. If it is magical then I would expect to pass out before I had any sensory information after the jump and it would be a cause to more confusion. Further we can test whether we can use plane shift and wish to send somebody into a deadmagic plane. If our magical transportation works and we still fail to reach Earth it'll increase the probability of a sim and basicly leaves us with manyworld hypothesis that someone deliberally is blocking us or that cosmological makeup of everything is different than what we expected. Plus even if we could port me in we aren't sure that I could get pulled out again, hence why we will have someone who can just want through the portal and drag me out",

Jack_Simth

2018-06-09, 07:54 AM

Base

"Well, for one it'll tell us that whatever is powering undeads is magical or not. If it is magical then I would expect to pass out before I had any sensory information after the jump and it would be a cause to more confusion. Further we can test whether we can use plane shift and wish to send somebody into a deadmagic plane. If our magical transportation works and we still fail to reach Earth it'll increase the probability of a sim and basicly leaves us with manyworld hypothesis that someone deliberally is blocking us or that cosmological makeup of everything is different than what we expected. Plus even if we could port me in we aren't sure that I could get pulled out again, hence why we will have someone who can just want through the portal and drag me out",

The man in a woman's ... well, not quite 'body' ... considers, and says "So assuming for the moment Wish transport works, we're going to want six diamonds at 25k each, not just four. One to test putting in, one to test pulling out, then the four for actual transport when it comes time for the experiment. Well, that or none and I switch over to my blood money build.... which gets a bit large and awkward."

Sønderjye

2018-06-10, 10:44 AM

"So assuming for the moment Wish transport works, we're going to want six diamonds at 25k each, not just four. One to test putting in, one to test pulling out, then the four for actual transport when it comes time for the experiment. Well, that or none and I switch over to my blood money build.... which gets a bit large and awkward."

"I'd vote blood money. Remind me again though, why did we need four for the actual transportation? One there, one back and?"

We can wait until you prepared spells. Did you want to use the demiplane seasonal trick?

Jack_Simth

2018-06-10, 04:57 PM

"I'd vote blood money. Remind me again though, why did we need four for the actual transportation? One there, one back and?"

We can wait until you prepared spells. Did you want to use the demiplane seasonal trick?

Ephermial Recollection says "Two people, both directions. Repetition, don't you know. We also pull someone we're familiar with from there to here - and send them back when done, assuming they want to go. OK. I'll rest up, then get into my Blood Money configuration..." She looks up "We'll need to do this in a courtyard. I'll need a 30 foot ceiling or better."

She nods "... and as long as I'll be in that form for a day anyway, I suppose I may as well get a proper rest zone set up."

The seasonal plane trick takes some significant setup to do properly, which includes 9th level spells - which I'm out of for the day, which is why the resting. I'll set it up when I've got the setup for Permanency anyway.

So... resting up, shuffling some spells.

Steps:
1) Cast Mount (disposable minion) (1st summoner)
2) Cast Baelful Shadow Transmutation on mount to make it a medium sized elf (Oracle-6)
3) Malevolence Mount (now it's me! At-will)
4) Summon Eidolon (now it's got strength and hands!)
5) Cast Blood Money for Transmogrify (to switch to basebuilding configuration, on sheet) (1st Oracle, 4th Summoner; 3 str damage) (Skip if the spell costs less than 17,000)
6) Cast Cleanse (to clean up the damage) (5th Oracle)
7) Cast Heart of the Mammoth (8th Oracle) (Skip if the spell costs less than 13,000, or if a casting from a previous loop is still in effect)
8) If the plan is Permanency: Cast the spell to be made permanent. (X)
9) Cast Blood Money (1st Oracle) for the expensive spell (Permanency, whatever) (X)
10) Cast Cleanse (5th Oracle) to clean things up.
11) Go to 7 (possibly 8 if Heart of the Mammoth hasn't expired) until all desired spells are cast
12) After all done, wait a day, cast Transmorgify again to switch to normal build.
The Create Demiplane (https://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic/all-spells/c/create-demiplane/) includes an option of
Seasonal: The demiplane has a seasonal cycle and a light cycle, usually similar to those of a land on the Material Plane, but customizable as you see fit (for example, your demiplane could always be winter, day and night could alternate every 4 hours, and so on).(emphasis added)
The basic trick is to use that to change what's meant by a day; set the day and night to alternate in short sequence. There's still the 8 hour casting limit, but combining with Timeless (With respect to magic) and Flowing time (1 round material plane = 2 rounds on the demiplane) options available in Create Greater Demiplane, one can build a place where a "day" is very short, such that a person can go there, rest for 8 hours (which passes in 4 hours Material Plane time), and refresh spells permitting someone to stop and refresh spells in 4 hours MP time, plus half the preparation time and half the daily routine time - so about five hours.
1) Get into Blood Money Setup (a little over 1 hour).
2) Cast Create Greater Demiplane to make the plane (6 hours). Go into it as it forms.
3) Cast Permanency via Blood Money Setup (see above, including the Cleanse)
4) Cast Create Greater Demiplane to make the plane timeless with respect to magic (6 hours)
5) Cast time stop for that tasty, tasty 20 hours.
5a) Cast Create Greater Demiplane to make the plane flowing time (6 hours of time stop)
5b) Cast Create Demiplane to make the plane seasonal (4 hours of time stop)
5c) Cast Create Demiplane to make the plane bountiful (mostly for a nice garden to relax in) (4 hours of time stop)
5d) Cover the place in Mage's Private Sanctum spells (they don't expire, due to timeless, and are just a standard action each)
5e) Cover the place in Dimension Lock spells (they don't expire, due to timeless, and are just a standard action each), except for one five-foot cube.
5f) Cover the five-foot cube with a folded wall of stone to make a cube. Put it into the 5-foot cube excluded from Dimension Lock.
6) Time Stop again
6a) Make a minion via Simulacrum & blood money. Great Wyrm Gold.
7) Mind Blank it, buff it with Magic Circle Against Evil, instruct it in staying in place, moving the block back and forth based on my Sendings.
Total Material Plane time (including resting!): 17 hours and change. Can be done after the Wish experiment.

Assmuning nothing of particular interest happens to prevent it, she rests up, goes through with the building plan, and at the same time stops and uses Permanency on Tongues, Read Magic, Detect Magic, and resistance, making them permanent on the eidolon she always wears, so that she'll essentially always have access to them.

ThreadNecro5

2018-06-13, 02:48 PM

Battle Royale
"Come back and fight you coward!", scourge yells as the thing goings into hiding again. This was getting annoying really fast. She sends and angry wave of magic towards the summoned blizard of the creature.

She conjures a portal to drop her sword into and to pick up a dorje. She then readies herself to the next attack.

Swift: quickened dispel magic towards the blizzard. CL check [roll0]
Move: Summon the dorje of ego whip in exchange of sword.
Standard: Readying to cast Ego Whip from the dorje when she spots the creature the next time. It's mind-effecting.
Charisma damage [roll1] Will 36 for half. If fail save then dazed. If needed CL check against spellcraft [roll2]

3 rounds of bardic music used.
1 round of Akashi left.

Creature uses a SLA but it can't do anything.

The blizzard dissipates, at least the summoned one, the more mundane non-vision-obscuring weather continues as ever.

The creature is behind you, to the left, Head, antlers and shoulders all that is exposed. On noticing the dispel it gives a confused snarl and then an angry roar. That roar is coupled with a concussive blast that harmlessly passes into and past your body.

After that is sinks fully beneath the snow and earth but before fully doing so you lash out with Ego Whip, managing to have an effect given the trashing.
Blizzard is gone, Scourge knows where the creature is and because it had a move action left it moved 5ft down.

As my notes aren't open right now reminder to myself the creature is two rounds of healing less than it is listed.

Base
Testing

"So.. how do you feel different?"

"No, it's just as things have always been so far".

What happens when Tollens makes the plane he is standing in deadmagic?
Absolutely nothing. Undeath has no interaction with dead magic areas.

Necropolis

The team continues their searching.
They keep looking and still nothing is found. Nothing of Earth can be found here.

Jack_Simth

2018-06-13, 09:25 PM

Sønderjye

2018-06-14, 05:13 AM

So to anyone who isn't Jack or TN the situation is that I messed up and used a campaign trait to increase the % of realness of simulacrums, allowing them to get high enough to be able to make simulacrums themselves. Further there has been an errata that I was unaware of.
Simply scratching this would require changing the previous storyline to close to unrecognizable.
Instead I will make a staff of Simulacrum(14HD max) and a rope of Arcane Heritage(modified to give +6 rather than +4), thus allowing my sims HD14sims to use the staff. The sims have Improved Favored Class - exchanged for +2/6%/lvl which with Magical Inigma (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/story-feats/magical-enigma-story/) gives a total of 20% realness allowing them to make 14HD sims themselves by using the Arcane Bloodline capstone to power the staff.
Staffs are created by using time stop on a timeless plane repeatedly. It takes about 50 castings which are done by burning spell slots to power castings from a staff using the arcane bloodline capstone.
This was followed by resting, using Nap Stack in a 50% time plane to reduce the time needed to 1 hour

Battle Royale

Dispel can target a spell and I'm targeting the blizzard.

Targeted Dispel: One object, creature, or spell is the target of the dispel magic spell.

Skipping 3 turns is a little steep. If the dispel manages to dispel the blizzard I'll have stuff to do, assuming you're fine with rolling back a little. If not I'll cast True Seeing on the next round and my further actions will depend on whether that gives me useful information.

Base

"No, it's just as things have always been so far".

"Does that mean that you're going to kill this guy or not?", Scourge waits, still ready to jump in front.

War on gods

Asking around the human-dominated populace is fruitless but a member of a race of emaciated looking giants with a cage around it's head seems to be paying marginally more attention to you without stopping its cleaning.

'Do you know something?', the scout sends telepathically to the caged giant who seemed to pay extra attention when he was researching whether it was possible to weaken or imprison a god.

Necropolis

Your message seems pretty final and gives me the impression that theren't no reason to keep searching. If it was IC I would assume that they'd have to search for weeks if not months to be sure that there wasn't anything but I can see an argument for skipping that for story purposes.

Back to Earth

Scourge consents to the spells, using spellcraft to ensure that they are what he expected them to be.

Eldest

2018-06-14, 02:21 PM

Base

Jenna reappears in the base in a rush of anticlimax. Sightseeing was all well and good, she'd tried to see how far she could go. She'd lost track of how far she'd flown: she didn't need to sleep, eat, or anything, so it had become a hyperfocused fixation, ignoring calls from people she probably should have answered, breaking the rhythm only to teleport further ahead when it all appeared to be one endless set of one type of terrain or another. She appeared back at the familiar floating city, covering in a light sheen of sweat, her ballroom gown swapped out for partially-real jeans and a Green Day t-shirt, one of her favorites from reality. She was convinced: this was not a game anymore, and it was time for her to resume her responsibility. She had people here to lead, and she had a wife to get back to, or bring here. They'd have to talk about that.

Apologies for my expansive absence. In short, the family I lived with turned out to be abusive, and got worse when I announced my intention to move out. I am recovered enough to continue a game of this scope.

Jack_Simth

2018-06-14, 07:27 PM

Standing very tall with her class features wrapped around a borrowed body, the corrupted nature spirit greets the 'newcomer' when she arrives "Oh, hello. I'm afraid I'm not quite dressed for company... preparing for a test in a little bit with Chase, looking for some evidence on 'what happened?' Still... call me Jack. " Minor folding on events, simply because we'll need to wait for TN to have sufficient time to reply for those to resolve.

Eldest

2018-06-14, 07:49 PM

Jenna shrugs about the clothes comment. Her outfit is shadowstuff, and could probably normally be seen through if they had some way to see through illusions, if she hadn't countered that... high powered stuff got complex, fast, but the point was she wasn't exactly dressed to the 9s. It's whatever. I don't think you were BRS. Who are you, exactly, Jack? Are you from here, or do you know who this band is? She leans back against a wall, made of the same stuff as her clothes now that she thinks about it, and puts her hands behind her head. "See, not a threat" the pose suggests. She hopes it's true: she'd hate to have to fight this early on.

Jack_Simth

2018-06-14, 07:57 PM

The man in a woman's ... well, not quite 'body' ... shakes her head "Not really, no. I don't pay much attention to who's performing a song, just whether or not I'm enjoying it... and just going by the art, probably not my type of band. My tastes run more towards classical and country - Bach, Garth Brooks, Shaina Twain, Beethoven, and so on. An eclectic mix, I know. One of my coworkers is ... or is that was? Still haven't settled on what tense to use... fond of bands like My Chemical Romance, and she was often wearing shirts she'd gotten at concerts. I am... or is that was... a programmer by trade."

Eldest

2018-06-14, 10:05 PM

I do... did... whatever... graphic design. Nice. She shrugs. So I'm guessing we're someplace else, instead of just a really good game. Which is a little annoying. World seems to go on for an apropriate amount of distance, I guess: I never studied geology past, like, high school. She rubs her face, then shrugs. So, assuming that we're really here and there's no hallucinations or whatever... upsides. I'm immortal till killed, you're immortal till you move on, life's good like that, and assuming you were an end-game player we're both kinda freakin' strong. Anybody else still here, by the way, you mentioned Chase? Downsides, naturally, are that I'm away from my daughter and wife. That's a little frustrating. She scowls and reaches behind her, pulling from her back (and out of nowhere) a rather plain wood staff, gnarled and crooked. She reaches out, trying to see her house on Earth with the staff's aid.

She's getting out her divination staff and using Greater Divine on her wife. The wife gets a Will save, DC 42, to resist.

Jack_Simth

2018-06-15, 07:10 AM

Ephermial Recollection nods "Alternate Reality is one of the three major branches, of competing hypothesis, yes. The experiment Chase and I are trying later is intended to either strengthen or weaken that hypothesis." She continues "As to the immortality... that's yet to be tested. I'm curious about whether or not it works... but ... well, there's only one way to test it, and if it doesn't work... well ... I'm not exactly eager to find out for sure. By the way: What should I call you?"

On seeing the divination, ER shrugs, and says "I've mostly been running under the assumption that home's a dead magic plane. I don't really expect that to work. Still, not something I thought to try. It'll only take a moment, though...." she casts Greater Scrying to try and see her son back in the prior world.

ThreadNecro5

2018-06-15, 02:16 PM

After getting the confirmation from the dead magic plane, out in the courtyard wearing his ridiculously over sized 'blood money' form and standing 30 feet tall, the Jack in the ghost nods, and (once scourge gets out of the antimagic field) says "And... let's see if we can do this. Obviously: Do identify the spell to be sure, then use that 'voluntarily give up your save' option. If we actually get you gone, I'll try to pull you back via Wish transport in one week's time, measured by the clock here - assuming you haven't returned under your own power by then, of course. In order, I'll be trying Dismissal, Plane Shift, and then Wish transport. I plan on stopping on the first one that works, assuming any of them do. Note that Dismissal has an 'off chance' - if that happens, just come back and we'll try again a time or two. Here we go..."

If nobody interrupts, Jack then casts the spells: Dismissal, Plane Shift, then using Blood Money to cast a Wish to get Scourge back to earth. Irrespective of the success or failure of those three, he also tries a Blood Money Wish to retrieve a man he knows from Earth: Daniel: a homeless man his workplace had given a job, who was later fired for doing some very stupid and highly illegal things outside of work... the idea being 'minimal impact' on everyone else - no dependents to worry about if he chooses to stay - and picking someone who's at rock-bottom increases the odds they'll be OK with it. But then, he did get fired for having bad decision-making skills...

See notes above (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showsinglepost.php?p=23140530&postcount=154) for how I'm paying for the Wishes. Building the rest plane after we're done here.

While they didn't include it in the target line (it's a big spell with lots of scenarios, so that's somewhat understandable), in Dispel Magic's (https://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic/all-spells/d/dispel-magic/) "Targeted Dispel" section, it includes: and later:
(Emphasis added in both cases)

After all the set up the Dismissal fails. Plane Shift does not recognise 'Earth' as a valid target and fails.

With the first wish you experience some possible success as Scourge vanishes.

Next comes bringing back Daniel. It fails to no result.

On seeing the divination, ER shrugs, and says "I've mostly been running under the assumption that home's a dead magic plane. I don't really expect that to work. Still, not something I thought to try. It'll only take a moment, though...." she casts Greater Scrying to try and see her son back in the prior world.
Once again a spell aimed at Earth fails.

Battle Royale

Dispel can target a spell and I'm targeting the blizzard.

Skipping 3 turns is a little steep. If the dispel manages to dispel the blizzard I'll have stuff to do, assuming you're fine with rolling back a little. If not I'll cast True Seeing on the next round and my further actions will depend on whether that gives me useful information.
Edited my post above. Only one round has passed.

Base
"Does that mean that you're going to kill this guy or not?", Scourge waits, still ready to jump in front.
"No, there was no moment of sudden limitations leaving me or anything..." Says the simulacrum "...but I choose not to".

War on gods
'Do you know something?', the scout sends telepathically to the caged giant who seemed to pay extra attention when he was researching whether it was possible to weaken or imprison a god.
The giant utterly ignores the scout even as it startles for a half-second with the telepathy. It just continues to scrub away.

Necropolis

Your message seems pretty final and gives me the impression that theren't no reason to keep searching. If it was IC I would assume that they'd have to search for weeks if not months to be sure that there wasn't anything but I can see an argument for skipping that for story purposes.

Perhaps as a happy medium between story purposes and them being through they could find a soul related outsider for a Q/A session?

Back to Earth
Scourge consents to the spells, using spellcraft to ensure that they are what he expected them to be.

Scourge's Perspective Post-Wish:
After you are teleported you are indeed somewhere else. You still have no heartbeat, you still don't need to breathe, and you all-in-all can still count yourself amongst the living dead.

Any hope that has built is almost immediately dashed as you look up to find yourself in the shadow beneath the cloud castle.

The wish sent you to earth. That is the closest patch of dirt on the ground.

Apologies for my expansive absence. In short, the family I lived with turned out to be abusive, and got worse when I announced my intention to move out. I am recovered enough to continue a game of this scope.
Sounds rough, hope things improve.

Also as my PM says I cannot find the Greater Divine spell.

The spell fails.

Eldest

2018-06-15, 03:24 PM

Jack_Simth

2018-06-15, 07:24 PM

I mean, for me, immortality will just be living until killed. And what are the other two branches?
The Jack in the ghost states "'Simulation' and 'Dream' are the two main branches of competing hypothesis. There's a lot of sub branches, and I tend to get a bit wordy when describing things. You still haven't introduced yourself, though."

After all the set up the Dismissal fails. Plane Shift does not recognise 'Earth' as a valid target and fails.

With the first wish you experience some possible success as Scourge vanishes.

Next comes bringing back Daniel. It fails to no result.

Once again a spell aimed at Earth fails.
He frowns slightly, shurgs, and says "Not a set of results I quite expected... I would have expected both Wishes to work, or neither... which suggests something is a little off, and we'll need to refine and repeat. Hmm. Well, I've got plenty of spell slots for if Chase returns quickly, and will attempt the retrieval in one week otherwise."

Eldest

2018-06-15, 09:06 PM

She snaps her fingers. Of course, forgive me, I'm a little distractable. My name, or at least the players name, is Morgan. The "Character" name is not relevant, I suppose. She shrugs. So we're all crazy, in a simulation, or on a plane where all the magic crap exists. Gotcha. She gives a thumbs up. I'll ignore the worst case scenario of the crazy, since that'd be impossible to prove. If we're in a simulation, it's high enough quality to simulate... life. So might as well act ethically as best we can, no? Some small part of her screams no, to take what you can and give nothing back, but she squelches it. She's not sure if it's her worse self or the demon thing doing it, but she's not happy either way. And of course if it's a magic plane, then we've got to behave, at least till we figure out the soul thing I suppose, and might as well behave after that. Her mouth purses as she considers something. Hm. I do hope my illusionary people aren't real enough for souls... how to find out, though. She gestures at Jack. You got a way to check? Preferably without killing one of them.

Jack_Simth

2018-06-15, 09:44 PM

The corrupted nature spirit in the borrowed body wrapped in a giant nymph considers "Close. In most branches of the Dream hypothesis, only one of us is crazy. The rest only exist as part of the dream."

She also answers the actual question "We can try a Mind Swap, I suppose; it explicitly deals with souls... I can also do Trap the Soul and have easy access to an equivalent of Magic Jar... although I've got a lot of casting planned for today already, and should hang onto this body for powering components - in addition to the experiments, I've got a few ideas for building a hidey-hole for when I need to rest up in a hurry. Once I'm done building that? Sure, no problem. Keep in mind, though, the game-mechanical meaning of 'soul' and the ethics designation of 'person' aren't necessarily the same thing. You'll need to stop and figure out how you, personally, define 'person' before you go very far. Mind showing me what you mean, though?"

Huh. Or I might just 'know' when I see them while not in a host. Here's the logic of how that might work.
Malevolence (https://www.d20pfsrd.com/bestiary/monster-listings/templates/dread-ghost-cr-3/#TOC-Malevolence-Su-) includes the line "This ability is similar to a magic jar spell (caster level 15th or the ghost’s Hit Dice, whichever is higher), except that it does not require a receptacle." - and the Magic Jar (https://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic/all-spells/m/magic-jar/) spell includes:

While in the magic jar, you can sense and attack any life force within 10 feet per caster level (and on the same plane of existence). You do need line of effect from the jar to the creatures. You cannot determine the exact creature types or positions of these creatures. In a group of life forces, you can sense a difference of 4 or more HD between one creature and another and can determine whether a life force is powered by positive or negative energy. (Undead creatures are powered by negative energy. Only sentient undead creatures have, or are, souls.) (emphasis added)

So... it works like magic jar, and magic jar gives me some sense on nearby life forces... which means I can count nearby life forces, and count them again if a new creature comes into range to see if there's a different number of them. It'd also be an instant-ID for undead/living, and have an interesting benefit of not being a Divination effect.

Eldest

2018-06-16, 12:32 AM

She grins, and whips out a large cloak from nowhere. "Alright, let's do this!" She holds it up to one side, blocking the view. "And presenting..." and draws it away, revealing a guard, picking his nose, spear hold at a parody of attention. "Chad, the guard!" She grins, and then waves away the cloak with a swish of her hand, vanishing back into the nothingness it was. "So basically he's a semi-real, permanent illusion of a person. Not sure what that makes him, ethically..."

Jack_Simth

2018-06-16, 02:51 PM

Sønderjye

2018-06-17, 09:43 AM

Base

Scourge steps out of the big portal that were beside Jack. "Good. At least I don't crumble in a world without magic, that's a good start."

"Oh hey Jen," she sings in the melodic voice that Chase still was getting used to as his own: "Anything of news value? I see you met Jack. He seems like a nice guy and us earthlings should try to stick together or at least stay in touch."

She reaches out, trying to see her house on Earth with the staff's aid.

"Divination didn't work for me when I tried to get information on folks back on Earth. You might be interesting in divining information about yourself though."

On the topic of souls he adds: "Let's be careful of ascribing a soul value other than what's related to an afterlife. We don't know whether there's a connection between the mind and the soul yet or whether a soul serves anything else than being an extra memory storage."

Lets say that the summary you got on discord is what Chase send you in a sending.

Post Wish

A moment after Scourge materializes besides Bond, a being whose altered form looks identical to Scourges but who anyone with true sight recognizes as a Gargantuan Mandragora and who upon closer inspection appears to be a simulacrum. If Morgan interacts much with Bond she'll realize that there's a suprising similarity in personality with Chase.

"Didn't work, I just got ported to the ground beneath the castle. Which really raises an intersting question, who or what interprets a Wish? We really need to know more about how magic works here. Maybe find some local mages and have a chat?"

"I had another thought. Is it even possible to port into a deadmagic plane?," she says before pointing at the portal still hovering just above the ground: "I name that plane Gaerb. Can someone wish me into Gaerb?"

War on gods

The scout almost instantly summons her magical powers to read the giants thoughts without care for personal privacy. Discretely of course.

Casting Detect Thoughts using Secret Spell Metamagic. Feel free to make rolls if needed.

Necropolis

Sounds good to me

Eldest

2018-06-17, 12:24 PM

The man in a woman's ... well, not quite 'body' ... nods, and says "All right. Now while I can't reasonably do the more mechanical tests until later, the... softer tests, I suppose you could call them... can be done immediately. The catch, though, is that you're the one that needs to do them, mostly because you're the one making decisions about when to use this ability and what to do with it - you're the 'active agent' in this scenario. So... interview him. Talk with him a while. During that talk, consider: Does he have his own goals, dreams, thoughts, and desires? Does he have real intelligence? Can he get jokes? Can he make decisions? Can he grow attached to folks? Is he capable of disobeying you? Then compare the answers you develop to those questions - and the answers to any other questions you think to consider - to what you think of the answer to the question 'What makes a person a person?' Because that final comparison step will give you most of your answer."

She grunts. Best to treat him as a person then. She looks around at the hundreds, if not thousands, of inhabitants of the university, and whistles. This... could get interesting.

Scourge steps out of the big portal that were beside Jack. "Good. At least I don't crumble in a world without magic, that's a good start."

"Oh hey Jen," she sings in the melodic voice that Chase still was getting used to as his own: "Anything of news value? I see you met Jack. He seems like a nice guy and us earthlings should try to stick together or at least stay in touch."

"Divination didn't work for me when I tried to get information on folks back on Earth. You might be interesting in divining information about yourself though."

On the topic of souls he adds: "Let's be careful of ascribing a soul value other than what's related to an afterlife. We don't know whether there's a connection between the mind and the soul yet or whether a soul serves anything else than being an extra memory storage."

It could also be an extra variable, like the imprint of the positive energy from somebody. But yeah, I'm going to try to not make any assumptions. What was this about a god owning somebody?

Jack_Simth

2018-06-17, 12:41 PM

Ephermial Recollection shrugs, and after a quick Cleanse spell to fix up her current host, says "I suppose I can do that... I could also try getting a bit more specific - you know '1600 Pennsylvania Avenue, District of Columbia, United States of America, Third planet from Sol, Milky Way Galaxy' to drop you on the White House's front lawn... but making sure a Wish can get you back and forth from a Dead Magic Plane is probably a suitable first step." She then silently Wishes to move Scourge to the newly-dubbed Gaerb. She also cleanses her current host again, and then repeats to try and retrieve him from Gaerb, followed by another Cleanse.

ThreadNecro5

2018-06-18, 03:38 PM

Huh. Or I might just 'know' when I see them while not in a host. Here's the logic of how that might work.
Malevolence (https://www.d20pfsrd.com/bestiary/monster-listings/templates/dread-ghost-cr-3/#TOC-Malevolence-Su-) includes the line "This ability is similar to a magic jar spell (caster level 15th or the ghost’s Hit Dice, whichever is higher), except that it does not require a receptacle." - and the Magic Jar (https://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic/all-spells/m/magic-jar/) spell includes:
(emphasis added)

So... it works like magic jar, and magic jar gives me some sense on nearby life forces... which means I can count nearby life forces, and count them again if a new creature comes into range to see if there's a different number of them. It'd also be an instant-ID for undead/living, and have an interesting benefit of not being a Divination effect.

That wouldn't work. Note it reads "By casting magic jar, you place your soul in a gem or large crystal (known as the magic jar)" and the passage you refer to notes "While in the magic jar".

So as there is no receptacle (the actual magic jar) when using malevolence you do not gain this sense, as that only applies within the jar itself.

War on gods

The scout almost instantly summons her magical powers to read the giants thoughts without care for personal privacy. Discretely of course.

Casting Detect Thoughts using Secret Spell Metamagic. Feel free to make rolls if needed.
The giant is presently deciding what it should do.

'Follow stranger? No, better to tell elders? Yes.'
'Stranger may go missing. Acceptable. Stranger will reappear if a problem.'

'Contact stranger? No. Finish, contact others, eat.

Necropolis
Sounds good to me

As the scouts search they find an area the dead seem to congregate. psychopomp and Valkyries are scattered around attending to their duties alongside others. This way leads to a vast circular area filled with shallow water from where the dead seem to just fade in over several seconds. All sorts of creatures are appearing from the familiar humanoids and giants, to a number of insectoids, various plants, and even aquatic creatures who are swiftly eased to deeper waters and a canal.

It is on the periphery of this area the scouts are interrupted. A Valkyrie who doubled back on noticing the living and another creature that resembles a mummified humanoid body with four arms that trails to nothing below the waist.

"Hmm, how did the living get here? you all are bound to have a story." asks the Valkyrie.
The other creature floats over "Sorry about her." it says to the scouts as a whole "Feel free to ignore us and get on with whatever it is you are doing, we should be dealing with our own goals right now". It becomes apparent that what seemed to be a black mask is actually it's head as the jaws move to drip some thick substance and four eyes move independently.

A look of concern passes it's face. "Oh, unless you need assistance. Wouldn't be right to leave a soul in need".

Ephermial Recollection shrugs, and after a quick Cleanse spell to fix up her current host, says "I suppose I can do that... I could also try getting a bit more specific - you know '1600 Pennsylvania Avenue, District of Columbia, United States of America, Third planet from Sol, Milky Way Galaxy' to drop you on the White House's front lawn... but making sure a Wish can get you back and forth from a Dead Magic Plane is probably a suitable first step." She then silently Wishes to move Scourge to the newly-dubbed Gaerb. She also cleanses her current host again, and then repeats to try and retrieve him from Gaerb, followed by another Cleanse.
Scourge successfully is teleported to Gaerb and is returned by the following wish.

Jack_Simth

2018-06-18, 07:34 PM

She grunts. Best to treat him as a person then. She looks around at the hundreds, if not thousands, of inhabitants of the university, and whistles. This... could get interesting.
The Jack in the ghost chuckles "It has been for a while."

Side note:
I'm guessing you're using Fey Adept's Create Reality (Companion) option with the Permanent Image advanced talent to make permanent shadow critters? If so... functions mostly as the companion from the Conjouration Sphere, which does have free will but usually does what the conjurer says due to (reasons that will usually apply, but the DM can void in cases of severe abuse). They also don't have the "can't grow or improve" clauses that Simulacrums do... and their only unreality is related to combat statistics. Which... means they've got more claim to personhood than does your garden-variety simulacrum. But at the same time, they're less "real" (dispellable, 20% HP, et cetera)... interesting...

Scourge successfully is teleported to Gaerb and is returned by the following wish.

He nods at the result "All right, let's try this again, getting a bit more specific so we don't get confused by dual-purpose names..." and uses Blood Money to power yet another Wish, this time attempting to transport Scourge/Chase to 1600 Pennsylvania Avenue in the District of Columbia in the United States of America on the third planet from Sol in the Milky Way Galaxy.
Fortunately, "Transport Travelers" is a standard clause... and if Scourge gets killed... well, we get to find out if lichdom actually works....

Sønderjye

2018-06-18, 07:40 PM

Battle Royale

Seeing the creature squirm under the pressure makes fills Scourge with an unexpected wave of immense satisfaction. With blood in his eyes he turns the gears up a notch and keeps the pressure up

Standard: Ego Whip, damage [roll0], Will 36 for half and negate stun. CL for SR: [roll1]

In your PM you mentioned that the extra damage didn't apply to the charisma damage. The extra damage comes in part from Glimpse of the Akashi

you gain a circumstance bonus equal to your caster level on all skill checks, ability checks, attack rolls, damage rolls, saving throws, and combat maneuver checks for 1 minute.
and in part from an Artisan class feature

Empower Damage (Ex): Whenever you use a scroll, wand, or staff to cast a spell that deals damage, you deal an extra amount of damage equal to half your class level (minimum 1.
Despite what you say neither of those specifies that the damage must be towards hit points. That said I understand a ruling of letting them only affect hit point damage as the numbers are quite high for ability damage.
Base

It could also be an extra variable, like the imprint of the positive energy from somebody. But yeah, I'm going to try to not make any assumptions.

"It could be a lot of things," she acknowledges: "maybe the soul is the equivalent of the brain or maybe something else. I wouldn't bet my money of positive energy as both me and the shadow here has a soul but I guess it's good to test assumptions" she says the last with a gesture towards Jack and then a moment after continues: "Actually, do you have a soul?"

"What was this about a god owning somebody?"
"So, remember that armagedon expansion with the four horsemen? It came with a class called Souldrinkers which had some nifty tricks though it also had you sell your soul to one of the four. It was mostly fluff with a CL DC of 10 plus level for ressurection slapped on top. Long story short the claim was transfered to one of the local evil dieties of destruction and stuff. I did some research and it turns out it influences at least 18 planes including the one we are on and the most common afterlife and have multiple champions. It's a pretty classical evil diety, plots the end of the world and plans to escape its prison. But pretty classic means something else when we are actually here and it gets out."

looking through Jacks illusion since Nightmare Creatures automacally disbelieves illusions. Wonder how that interacts with Jenna's stuff

Testing

After the wish successfully ports back and forth Bond tries a plane shift to Gaerb and Back.

Regardless Scourge says: "Should we give it a go with the specific address? I wouldn't have high hopes but it's worh being through."

War on Gods

'You can answer by thinking loudly,' the scout comments helpfully, pretending to be ignorant of the internal debate of the giant: 'If you help me out I can help you out too. We are many very powerful fighters and mages and we have much food and treasure.'

Eldest

2018-06-18, 08:18 PM

The Jack in the ghost chuckles "It has been for a while."

Side note:
I'm guessing you're using Fey Adept's Create Reality (Companion) option with the Permanent Image advanced talent to make permanent shadow critters? If so... functions mostly as the companion from the Conjouration Sphere, which does have free will but usually does what the conjurer says due to (reasons that will usually apply, but the DM can void in cases of severe abuse). They also don't have the "can't grow or improve" clauses that Simulacrums do... and their only unreality is related to combat statistics. Which... means they've got more claim to personhood than does your garden-variety simulacrum. But at the same time, they're less "real" (dispellable, 20% HP, et cetera)... interesting...

Well, sure, but... I make people. How am I supposed to feel about that? I mean, jeez. She scratches her hair.

That is correct! The entire town is layered, Create-Reality-ed permanent illusions. This includes ~95% of the inhabitants. I am going to treat them as people until significant evidence to the contrary exists.

"It could be a lot of things," she acknowledges: "maybe the soul is the equivalent of the brain or maybe something else. I wouldn't bet my money of positive energy as both me and the shadow here has a soul but I guess it's good to test assumptions" she says the last with a gesture towards Jack and then a moment after continues: "Actually, do you have a soul?"

She nods. If I remember my lore correctly, a demon's body is it's soul, no? She frowns, trying to recall more about the basic knowledge of demons.

Knowledge religion [roll0] to know about demons.

"So, remember that armagedon expansion with the four horsemen? It came with a class called Souldrinkers which had some nifty tricks though it also had you sell your soul to one of the four. It was mostly fluff with a CL DC of 10 plus level for ressurection slapped on top. Long story short the claim was transfered to one of the local evil dieties of destruction and stuff. I did some research and it turns out it influences at least 18 planes including the one we are on and the most common afterlife and have multiple champions. It's a pretty classical evil diety, plots the end of the world and plans to escape its prison. But pretty classic means something else when we are actually here and it gets out."

looking through Jacks illusion since Nightmare Creatures automacally disbelieves illusions. Wonder how that interacts with Jenna's stuff

She lets out a low whistle. That's, uh, bad. We might want to do something about that, then. Are we doing something about that?

I'd hope that her Mind Blank-equivelent (http://spheresofpower.wikidot.com/advanced-talents#toc149) at least covers the illusion of clothes she has on...

This is actually important, though, how does Create Reality (http://spheresofpower.wikidot.com/fey-adept#toc8) combine with True Seeing (the spell) (https://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic/all-spells/t/true-seeing/), Truesight (the ability) (http://spheresofpower.wikidot.com/fey-adept#toc16), and auto-disbelieve abilities such as that? Does her having an anti-divination ability (http://spheresofpower.wikidot.com/advanced-talents#toc149) change those answers?

Jack_Simth

2018-06-18, 08:47 PM

"It could be a lot of things," she acknowledges: "maybe the soul is the equivalent of the brain or maybe something else. I wouldn't bet my money of positive energy as both me and the shadow here has a soul but I guess it's good to test assumptions" she says the last with a gesture towards Jack and then a moment after continues: "Actually, do you have a soul?"
The corrupted nature spirit tilts her head a bit to the side, and asks "Do you? Does anybody? Are you using the game-mechanics definition, or something else? There's ways to test for the game-mechanics one, but not most others. In the end, it's not really a question folks will have an answer to until The End. At which point, they can't really tell anyone else, now can they? How about we say 'I'm not eager to test that one' and move on?"

Well, sure, but... I make people. How am I supposed to feel about that? I mean, jeez. She scratches her hair.

The spirit looks at you funny "Nearly everyone has the ability at some point in their life. There's lots of differences, sure: it's way easier for you than most, it's way faster for you than most, they'll have much less in common with you than most, they'll need much less babying from you than most, and so on ... but nearly everyone has some capacity for that at some point in their life. For you, the question is several orders of magnitude more pressing, but quite frankly that's a question that even high schoolers should consider."

That is correct! The entire town is layered, Create-Reality-ed permanent illusions. This includes ~95% of the inhabitants. I am going to treat them as people until significant evidence to the contrary exists.

Note: Constant True Seeing over here, along with decent saves, Will being the highest.

Also, on the inhabitant count, you may with to compare notes with Sønderjye on his created minions...

She nods. If I remember my lore correctly, a demon's body is it's soul, no? She frowns, trying to recall more about the basic knowledge of demons.
The shade shrugs "That's true of most outsiders, and some undead."

She lets out a low whistle. That's, uh, bad. We might want to do something about that, then. Are we doing something about that?
"We're starting with research, yes."

I'd hope that her Mind Blank-equivelent (http://spheresofpower.wikidot.com/advanced-talents#toc149) at least covers the illusion of clothes she has on...In theory, it'd cover True Seeing, but not normal saves from interaction - which, I might add, can be explicitly had via deliberate examination. So just for giggles, rolling Will, especially as you asked me to examine your shirt earlier....

Slightly reduced at the moment due to current configuration, which is why this doesn't quite match what's on my sheet.
[roll0]
Is that a pass?

Sønderjye

2018-06-19, 05:11 AM

Necropolis

"Actually we could really use your help," the sim called Houston said, looking at the two beings under her long eyebrows. In any reasonable work flirting wouldn't work due to their crazily different biologies but there were plenty of half-whatever in genesis so it stood to reason that it wasn't impossible. "I really want to understand souls. Could you explain them to me?"

Base

Well, sure, but... I make people. How am I supposed to feel about that? I mean, jeez.
"Actually we should talk about this. We are pretty much gods in this reality and we need to have higher moral standards than normal. I created a large number of simulacrums and still need to have a conversation with them about what they want and how they feel about all of this. Specifically we are probably only creating minions who will obey us and we need to understand how all of that works. Sims, undead minions, illusion soldiers, and mindcontrolled. If we create a minion who has a mental guard that constricts it thoughts and punishes it on disobediance that would be horrible. Simulacrums seem to work on a one time change in the mental works that changed the original framework to a framework in which the sim simply naturally has loyal tendencies. Still there's complications. Is it right to create something that is more or less a slave to you? If the thing doesn't want to be alive then we shouldn't create it. But if it likes to be alive and we can provide an all around good life for it and it enjoys being a servant, is it OK?"

"For a specific situatioin, what about mindcontroling magic on non-sentient beings that would otherwise cause great suffering?"

She nods. If I remember my lore correctly, a demon's body is it's soul, no? She frowns, trying to recall more about the basic knowledge of demons.

"Be careful of trusting your memories on this kind of stuff. Our knowledge skills only gives us knowledge from Genesis and while there seems to be a big overlap, we should test things if possible."

"Do you? Does anybody? Are you using the game-mechanics definition, or something else? There's ways to test for the game-mechanics one, but not most others. In the end, it's not really a question folks will have an answer to until The End. At which point, they can't really tell anyone else, now can they? How about we say 'I'm not eager to test that one' and move on?"
"Using the game mechanics which seems to be the world mechanics, does soul stuff work for you?"

She lets out a low whistle. That's, uh, bad. We might want to do something about that, then. Are we doing something about that?

"We're starting with research, yes."
Scourge lets out a laught. "Starting very slowly perhaps. We don't really know anything actionable at the moment. I'll still say it's a higher priority to learn about whether we are in a sim or other reality. After that we'll need to know whether we actually can harm a diety and I'd be happy if you had any suggestions on how to learn that. We can't really test it out and if I was a diet this was one of the things I would try to keep hidden."

There's quite a number of simulacrums running around. Only a few of them are in town, most are out scouting or in a demi-plane created for that exactly.
I got about 105 bought minions in town. I'll make a scene sometime soon for introducing you to the sims but at this point there's enough scenes around.
Here's the text from the nightmare creature on automatically disbelieving. Make of it what you will.

A nightmare creature automatically disbelieves illusions (no saving throw required) and has a +4 bonus on saving throws to resist illusion (https://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic#TOC-Illusion) effects.

Eldest

2018-06-19, 11:04 AM

The corrupted nature spirit tilts her head a bit to the side, and asks "Do you? Does anybody? Are you using the game-mechanics definition, or something else? There's ways to test for the game-mechanics one, but not most others. In the end, it's not really a question folks will have an answer to until The End. At which point, they can't really tell anyone else, now can they? How about we say 'I'm not eager to test that one' and move on?"

"Using the game mechanics which seems to be the world mechanics, does soul stuff work for you?"

Yeah, I see no reason to further complicate our life by trying to ask philisophical questions about the soul when the soul is "right there", so to speak. Let's try to simplify and have some assumptions until they're challenged, yeah? I, at least, am going to assume that this isn't a game, and is either a simulation so complete that it might as well be a reality, or another reality, somehow. The how and why of it matter to me, but seeing as "it was all a dream" is not falsifiable, I see no reason to include it. So I think my main goal right now would be understanding if I can get my wife here, somehow, or if I can get back to her.

"For a specific situatioin, what about mindcontroling magic on non-sentient beings that would otherwise cause great suffering?"

This might be the horns talking, here she taps them, but I don't see a problem with overriding somebody's free will if absolutely needed. It's non-ideal. Even possibly Evil, depending on the situation. But sometimes, people's decision on what they should do is worse.

The spirit looks at you funny "Nearly everyone has the ability at some point in their life. There's lots of differences, sure: it's way easier for you than most, it's way faster for you than most, they'll have much less in common with you than most, they'll need much less babying from you than most, and so on ... but nearly everyone has some capacity for that at some point in their life. For you, the question is several orders of magnitude more pressing, but quite frankly that's a question that even high schoolers should consider."

Jenna looks uncharacteristically cold and angry. I could not. Let's leave it at that.

"Actually we should talk about this. We are pretty much gods in this reality and we need to have higher moral standards than normal. I created a large number of simulacrums and still need to have a conversation with them about what they want and how they feel about all of this. Specifically we are probably only creating minions who will obey us and we need to understand how all of that works. Sims, undead minions, illusion soldiers, and mindcontrolled. If we create a minion who has a mental guard that constricts it thoughts and punishes it on disobediance that would be horrible. Simulacrums seem to work on a one time change in the mental works that changed the original framework to a framework in which the sim simply naturally has loyal tendencies. Still there's complications. Is it right to create something that is more or less a slave to you? If the thing doesn't want to be alive then we shouldn't create it. But if it likes to be alive and we can provide an all around good life for it and it enjoys being a servant, is it OK?"

According to the developer, the shadows created by my abilities were unofficially supposed to be unintelligent, because the idea of intelligent beings bound to somebody's will permanently horrified him. She grimaces. But they're here, and they appear to all be intelligent, so clearly this world works differently. I think I'm just not going to give any orders unless it's an emergency. She shrugs and frowns. Certainly not an ideals solution.

"Be careful of trusting your memories on this kind of stuff. Our knowledge skills only gives us knowledge from Genesis and while there seems to be a big overlap, we should test things if possible."

Have you found something you knew to be true from knowledge to be false? She looks highly concerned.

"We're starting with research, yes."

Scourge lets out a laught. "Starting very slowly perhaps. We don't really know anything actionable at the moment. I'll still say it's a higher priority to learn about whether we are in a sim or other reality. After that we'll need to know whether we actually can harm a deity and I'd be happy if you had any suggestions on how to learn that. We can't really test it out and if I was a diet this was one of the things I would try to keep hidden."

She grunts. First option might be just ask one about the world, I think. Try to make a friend. Any gods of knowledge we can ask?

Sønderjye

2018-06-19, 05:57 PM

This might be the horns talking, here she taps them, but I don't see a problem with overriding somebody's free will if absolutely needed. It's non-ideal. Even possibly Evil, depending on the situation. But sometimes, people's decision on what they should do is worse.

"Right, so if it's absolutely nessesary I don't see a problem with it either, well more severe of a problem than killing anyway. The big question comes in under permanent mind control like sentient undead creation or something like dominate monster. If we're talking something that overall contributes to the good of the world or simply minds their own business I think it's hard to defend any permanent mind control. But given that death simply lets someone move on to another plane and they could be ressurected, it might be an alternative to prison?"

Have you found something you knew to be true from knowledge to be false? She looks highly concerned.

"Nothing yet but I've found plenty of gaping holes and it stands to reason that if there's things game Knowledge doesn't know then there's things that game knowledge 'knows' but that isn't present. For starters, do you even know if there is a hell?"

She grunts. First option might be just ask one about the world, I think. Try to make a friend. Any gods of knowledge we can ask?

"Let's try to quiz scholars, holy men and divine beings before we start to ask gods. I'd rather that we delay the attention of the gods if feasible, particular since the answers we need are the answers they would be least likely to actually be honest about. If there's one thing that the gods collectively would lose from is if the mortals figured out how to off them."

Jack_Simth

2018-06-19, 09:12 PM

"Actually we should talk about this. We are pretty much gods in this reality and we need to have higher moral standards than normal. I created a large number of simulacrums and still need to have a conversation with them about what they want and how they feel about all of this. Specifically we are probably only creating minions who will obey us and we need to understand how all of that works. Sims, undead minions, illusion soldiers, and mindcontrolled. If we create a minion who has a mental guard that constricts it thoughts and punishes it on disobediance that would be horrible. Simulacrums seem to work on a one time change in the mental works that changed the original framework to a framework in which the sim simply naturally has loyal tendencies. Still there's complications. Is it right to create something that is more or less a slave to you? If the thing doesn't want to be alive then we shouldn't create it. But if it likes to be alive and we can provide an all around good life for it and it enjoys being a servant, is it OK?"
The man in a woman's ... well, not quite 'body' ... sighs "No, we're not 'pretty much gods'. Sure, each of us has a lot of personal power... but we're pretty far from all-knowing or all-powerful, and you will develop a nasty case of hubris if you let yourself think you're close to godhood, or if you let statements by others in that vein go unchallenged. It's human nature - if someone hears a thing repeated often enough, they'll generally believe it to be true, irregardless of whether or not it is. If you're constantly told you're better than everyone else by whatever phrasing, and you permit the statement when it happens, sooner or later you'll come to believe it to be true... or at least act as though it is. But there's always someone better, and few folks like a person who's full of themselves. If you believe yourself better, sooner or later you'll run across someone who is better than you, and you won't necessarily realize you will lose the encounter if pressed. Even if that never happens... sooner or later folks will get tired of you acting like you're more valuable than they are (regardless of whether or not it's true), and you'll find you have trouble getting and keeping actual friends, rather than just folks who like what you can do for them. I'd rather not go down that road."

He continues "As for the ethics? When someone hears 'slavery', they usually think of the abomination that happened in the deep south as practiced before the US Civil War. Historically, though, the term's been applied to a rather lot of different things... some of which were not so bad. In times and places, it was a punishment that was to last a set term of six years. So if a man was caught stealing, and could not repay what was stolen, he'd get sold into slavery ... and any injury sustained that exceeded a certain list... a list which included the loss of a tooth, I might add ... at the hands of the master was grounds for immediate release. When the convict's sentence was up, he was to be - and I quote - 'furnished liberally' from his ex-master's household. Which is to say, when he was set loose, he was given enough to get by for a fair length of time; ideally long enough to find honest work. Not a nice thing to happen to a person, but more effective at preventing recurrence than most prison systems, and cheaper to boot... provided everyone followed the rules on their handling, anyway. Perhaps for created creatures, we should do something similar - six years of loyal service to pay for their creation, then set them free."

"For a specific situatioin, what about mindcontroling magic on non-sentient beings that would otherwise cause great suffering?"

The currently way-too-tall man shrugs "A non-sentient critter? Who cares? I mean, purposeless cruelty says bad things about a person irrespective of whether or not the target is a person, but... I've got no problems with the bloke who shoots a dear to feed his family, nor the guy who puts a bit in a horses' mouth and compels it to haul a wagon. I'm even more fine with a man who puts down a rabid dog, or cages an already-infected lion to study a disease that makes it choose human prey."

"Be careful of trusting your memories on this kind of stuff. Our knowledge skills only gives us knowledge from Genesis and while there seems to be a big overlap, we should test things if possible."

"Using the game mechanics which seems to be the world mechanics, does soul stuff work for you?"

Again, the man gives a shrug and looks towards Jenny as he answers "I'll be testing that as a side effect of when I test for the game-mechanical bit of a soul in the shadow-folks you make, Jenny. Mind Switch tests both ways, and is a simple thing to try."

Scourge lets out a laught. "Starting very slowly perhaps. We don't really know anything actionable at the moment. I'll still say it's a higher priority to learn about whether we are in a sim or other reality. After that we'll need to know whether we actually can harm a diety and I'd be happy if you had any suggestions on how to learn that. We can't really test it out and if I was a diet this was one of the things I would try to keep hidden."

The man conceedes that point "Yes... but do keep in mind: Have you actually confirmed that the plague is, in fact, a deity, as opposed to, say, a major demon? As to other avenues of approach... we could possibly look into why demons and devils engage in the soul trade... assuming they do here, of course... but it seems likely that they will, if anyone does. Hmm. That... may also be a ... well, 'good' doesn't fit... 'effective', I guess... place to start looking for information on how to kill deities, actually. Find an ancient race that has a mutual hatred with the deities, and ask them. Demons and Devils seem likely candidates for that."

Yeah, I see no reason to further complicate our life by trying to ask philisophical questions about the soul when the soul is "right there", so to speak. Let's try to simplify and have some assumptions until they're challenged, yeah? I, at least, am going to assume that this isn't a game, and is either a simulation so complete that it might as well be a reality, or another reality, somehow. The how and why of it matter to me, but seeing as "it was all a dream" is not falsifiable, I see no reason to include it. So I think my main goal right now would be understanding if I can get my wife here, somehow, or if I can get back to her.

Jack nods "I've got a similar concern, yes, although so far it's looking like we're pretty thoroughly stranded."

Jenna looks uncharacteristically cold and angry. I could not. Let's leave it at that.

Jack shrugs "As you wish."

Have you found something you knew to be true from knowledge to be false? She looks highly concerned.Still ridiculously tall, Jack replies "The planar cosmology doesn't match. I tried to Plane Shift something to the Plane of Fire, and got what amounts to 'does not exist' in response. There are things present here that weren't in the game."

Sønderjye

2018-06-20, 07:40 AM

"No, we're not 'pretty much gods'. Sure, each of us has a lot of personal power... but we're pretty far from all-knowing or all-powerful, and you will develop a nasty case of hubris if you let yourself think you're close to godhood, or if you let statements by others in that vein go unchallenged. It's human nature - if someone hears a thing repeated often enough, they'll generally believe it to be true, irregardless of whether or not it is. If you're constantly told you're better than everyone else by whatever phrasing, and you permit the statement when it happens, sooner or later you'll come to believe it to be true... or at least act as though it is. But there's always someone better, and few folks like a person who's full of themselves. If you believe yourself better, sooner or later you'll run across someone who is better than you, and you won't necessarily realize you will lose the encounter if pressed. Even if that never happens... sooner or later folks will get tired of you acting like you're more valuable than they are (regardless of whether or not it's true), and you'll find you have trouble getting and keeping actual friends, rather than just folks who like what you can do for them. I'd rather not go down that road."

Tollens studied Jack for a long moment. Initially she had been annoyed that Jack had misinterpreted her so grossly but as words kept comming out of his mouth it dawned to her that this wasn't about what she said, it was something personal. "Jack," she says in a mild tone suppresing the urge to put a comforting hand on the shade's shoulder, it would just have passed through anyway: "Nobody's saying that we're the the most powerful creatures but we have more umpf than most of the greek gods. The moral of those guys were **** and we have to do better. And all this power raises a number of questions of how to use it which is better talked about now than later"

"As for the ethics? When someone hears 'slavery', they usually think of the abomination that happened in the deep south as practiced before the US Civil War. Historically, though, the term's been applied to a rather lot of different things... some of which were not so bad. In times and places, it was a punishment that was to last a set term of six years. So if a man was caught stealing, and could not repay what was stolen, he'd get sold into slavery ... and any injury sustained that exceeded a certain list... a list which included the loss of a tooth, I might add ... at the hands of the master was grounds for immediate release. When the convict's sentence was up, he was to be - and I quote - 'furnished liberally' from his ex-master's household. Which is to say, when he was set loose, he was given enough to get by for a fair length of time; ideally long enough to find honest work. Not a nice thing to happen to a person, but more effective at preventing recurrence than most prison systems, and cheaper to boot... provided everyone followed the rules on their handling, anyway. Perhaps for created creatures, we should do something similar - six years of loyal service to pay for their creation, then set them free."

"I don't know.. It's an interesting idea for sure but I'm uncomfortable with the idea of being born into forced labour. It's not like we're giving them a choice you know. And we'll also be responsible for what they do after we let them go." He contemplates for a little and then adds: "Do you think there's a way to figure out whether they would have said yes to that choice if given the choice? Some divination spell maybe? If we could do that I'd be fine with it. Assuming we made creatures who we were reasonably sure would contribute positively to the world if left on their own."

The currently way-too-tall man shrugs "A non-sentient critter? Who cares? I mean, purposeless cruelty says bad things about a person irrespective of whether or not the target is a person, but... I've got no problems with the bloke who shoots a dear to feed his family, nor the guy who puts a bit in a horses' mouth and compels it to haul a wagon. I'm even more fine with a man who puts down a rabid dog, or cages an already-infected lion to study a disease that makes it choose human prey."

"I suppose that mindcontrolling isn't that different from rearing an animal. Still it's not like we need to kill anything for food and there's at least some other options for containing a dangerous being even with killing not being an option. Prison is a option though it probably would depend on the specific being. Permanent personality altercation is also potentially an option that we should consider, given that it's at least a little more morally defendable than straight up mind control."

The man conceedes that point "Yes... but do keep in mind: Have you actually confirmed that the plague is, in fact, a deity, as opposed to, say, a major demon? As to other avenues of approach... we could possibly look into why demons and devils engage in the soul trade... assuming they do here, of course... but it seems likely that they will, if anyone does. Hmm. That... may also be a ... well, 'good' doesn't fit... 'effective', I guess... place to start looking for information on how to kill deities, actually. Find an ancient race that has a mutual hatred with the deities, and ask them. Demons and Devils seem likely candidates for that."

"No confirmation but it bear to mind whether gods are a seperate type or just any being sufficiently powerful. I know it has diefic power which in Genesis meant 41+ hit die. The prior thing was Appolyon, the horseman of plague, who was a 35HD daemon who was mythic on it's plane. The lore said that horsemen had been killed in the past for what it's worth. Good idea with starting with demons and devils. I guess we'll confirm whether there's a hell or not soon enough. Jen, how would you feel about a dismissal and we'd follow immediately after?"

ThreadNecro5

2018-06-20, 05:27 PM

She nods. If I remember my lore correctly, a demon's body is it's soul, no? She frowns, trying to recall more about the basic knowledge of demons.

Knowledge religion [roll0] to know about demons.[/spoiler]
The 'a demon's body is it's soul' thing is accurate. Any more specific questions on demons I can also answer, this is just a basic 'what is a demon' answer to start.

A demon is a variety of Outsider formed of chaos and evil. Demon formation is based around 'sin', which can be thought of as a rough way to define specific actions or emotional responses that originate from or cause evil. These can vary from the classical seven deadly sins to more specific or esoteric happenings. Most demons originate as CE mortal souls that spend a period of time as a grublike 'larva' before transformation. On the soul becoming a demon the form it manifests varies based on the sin the soul committed the most of or that is most indicative to the life that soul led, with some sins having some degree of precedence over others. The quantity of that sin committed and how extreme those instances of it were influence the number of demons generated at once. The desire to engage and profligate it's associated sin in the core feature of any given demon's mindset but they are as capable of changing over time as any other Outsider.

[QUOTE=Eldest;23160671]I'd hope that her Mind Blank-equivelent (http://spheresofpower.wikidot.com/advanced-talents#toc149) at least covers the illusion of clothes she has on...

This is actually important, though, how does Create Reality (http://spheresofpower.wikidot.com/fey-adept#toc8) combine with True Seeing (the spell) (https://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic/all-spells/t/true-seeing/), Truesight (the ability) (http://spheresofpower.wikidot.com/fey-adept#toc16), and auto-disbelieve abilities such as that? Does her having an anti-divination ability (http://spheresofpower.wikidot.com/advanced-talents#toc149) change those answers?

I think Unplottable would block True Seeing but Truesight is not a Divination effect so it wouldn't be stopped. Similarly a Nightmare Creature's auto disbelieve wouldn't be blocked, which retroactively makes things awkward.

Before anyone asks I suppose in Genesis there would've had a permeant underwear texture.

Also why does something like this always happen in games I'm in? My first game in this site was me running Vampire and the NPC informant wound up projecting from their body to go look for the PCs after they spent too long blindly wandering a nightcub. Another time I run the tomb of horrors and most of the characters wound up nude due to a near dungeon-wide trap that has. Beyond that I have a tendency to forget to add clothes to new character sheets and only realise midway through the session prying over equipment. Mini-rant over, I just thought it strange.

Battle Royale

Seeing the creature squirm under the pressure makes fills Scourge with an unexpected wave of immense satisfaction. With blood in his eyes he turns the gears up a notch and keeps the pressure up

Standard: Ego Whip, damage [roll0], Will 36 for half and negate stun. CL for SR: [roll1]

In your PM you mentioned that the extra damage didn't apply to the charisma damage. The extra damage comes in part from Glimpse of the Akashi

and in part from an Artisan class feature

Despite what you say neither of those specifies that the damage must be towards hit points. That said I understand a ruling of letting them only affect hit point damage as the numbers are quite high for ability damage.
Right, thought it looked a bit high but figured you had some CL buffs in place.

Rolled save on online dice roller to save time, Nat 20.

Creature casts the SLA that summons the blizzard then moves 100ft straight up, although more like 95ft as it was underground first

The monster, seeming to have had quite enough flies from the ground with another roar to call the blizzard. The winds buffet you as they manifest and them travel upwards. They seem to function as an aura of a sorts moving with the creature as it flees.

Testing
After the wish successfully ports back and forth Bond tries a plane shift to Gaerb and Back.
Bond successfully plane shift to and back from Gaeb, reappearing somewhere uninhabited in the nearby mountains.

War on Gods
'You can answer by thinking loudly,' the scout comments helpfully, pretending to be ignorant of the internal debate of the giant: 'If you help me out I can help you out too. We are many very powerful fighters and mages and we have much food and treasure.'
The strange giant continues to wilfully ignore you. Apparently finished it puts away it's equipment and leaves is a strange skittering stop-start gait.

'trouble.' it thinks.

Just to double check do the sims have any form of see invisibility I have forgotten about? It may come up.

He nods at the result "All right, let's try this again, getting a bit more specific so we don't get confused by dual-purpose names..." and uses Blood Money to power yet another Wish, this time attempting to transport Scourge/Chase to 1600 Pennsylvania Avenue in the District of Columbia in the United States of America on the third planet from Sol in the Milky Way Galaxy.
Fortunately, "Transport Travelers" is a standard clause... and if Scourge gets killed... well, we get to find out if lichdom actually works....
The spell fails.

Jack_Simth

2018-06-20, 10:06 PM

Tollens studied Jack for a long moment. Initially she had been annoyed that Jack had misinterpreted her so grossly but as words kept comming out of his mouth it dawned to her that this wasn't about what she said, it was something personal. "Jack," she says in a mild tone suppresing the urge to put a comforting hand on the shade's shoulder, it would just have passed through anyway: "Nobody's saying that we're the the most powerful creatures but we have more umpf than most of the greek gods. The moral of those guys were **** and we have to do better. And all this power raises a number of questions of how to use it which is better talked about now than later"

Ephermial Recollection sighs "Sorry... keep forgetting: My problems are just that: My problems. They don't always apply to others. Do be aware, though: Situationally Acquired Narcissism was a thing in the prior world that I spent a rather lot of time actively avoiding, even before I had a name for it. We almost certainly still have our prior psychologies." she sighs again "Obviously. Which is a good thing, really."
Actually, it wouldn't pass through. I spend nearly all of my time quite solid. Highly useful side-effect of something else I'm doing - even when I'm not possessing something, I'm still wearing a meatsuit (which looks like a nymph). Even when I don't have that particular ability active (it's dismissable) my gauntlets are ghost touch, and I've got a Ghost Touch Amulet of Mighty Fists, so I can still shake hands, work doorknobs, and such. Things like "What's my carrying capacity" don't have a RAW answer when that happens, though. Still, it's rare enough that it's unlikely to come up, and I won't generally be moving much mass without my meatsuit anyway.

"I don't know.. It's an interesting idea for sure but I'm uncomfortable with the idea of being born into forced labour. It's not like we're giving them a choice you know. And we'll also be responsible for what they do after we let them go." He contemplates for a little and then adds: "Do you think there's a way to figure out whether they would have said yes to that choice if given the choice? Some divination spell maybe? If we could do that I'd be fine with it. Assuming we made creatures who we were reasonably sure would contribute positively to the world if left on their own."

ER chuckles slightly "In your case, there's no spell required: you can just ask one of the copies of yourself that already exist: Given the option between never having existed vs. serving for a fixed term and then being free to do as they choose, if they'd have accepted the bargain. All of your copies will have essentially the same psychology, at least at the beginning, and will make the same choice. Once you know one's answer, you know them all. Well, until you change enough to have a different one, which really just means you need to repeat the exercise periodically. In my case, the same spawn that let me easily get simulacrums also let me readily use Commune or Vision to see about getting such answers. In your case..." She looks at the only real woman in the group "...you appear to be able to largely make up the psychology of the person you're making. Make them the sort to enjoy life and want to repay kindness, and they'll serve willingly as long as the service isn't overly harsh. And really, isn't 'enjoying life' one of the things most folks want to do anyway?"

"I suppose that mindcontrolling isn't that different from rearing an animal. Still it's not like we need to kill anything for food and there's at least some other options for containing a dangerous being even with killing not being an option. Prison is a option though it probably would depend on the specific being. Permanent personality altercation is also potentially an option that we should consider, given that it's at least a little more morally defendable than straight up mind control."

She purses her lips a bit at this one "Are we still talking animal level intellect, or are we drifting into people territory here? If we're still talking animals: Wild animals suffer when caged. If you get them young enough you can domesticate them without too much hassle, and they don't suffer for it... but the sort of animal you'd cage for being dangerous to folks?"she shakes her head "Mostly better to simply end them, or put them in some form of suspended animation." ER continues "If you are drifting into people territory... where you do you draw the line between editing someone and killing the prior person to make a new one? Don't get me wrong: That might not be a bad thing... once you've reached the point where terminating a person is a reasonable course of action. But... ah... how many permanent people editing spells are you aware of that'll make that sort of major change?"

"No confirmation but it bear to mind whether gods are a seperate type or just any being sufficiently powerful. I know it has diefic power which in Genesis meant 41+ hit die. The prior thing was Appolyon, the horseman of plague, who was a 35HD daemon who was mythic on it's plane. The lore said that horsemen had been killed in the past for what it's worth. Good idea with starting with demons and devils. I guess we'll confirm whether there's a hell or not soon enough. Jen, how would you feel about a dismissal and we'd follow immediately after?"
The nymph raises an eyebrow "How do you propose to know exactly where she ended up to follow? Wouldn't it be easier to pack a Plane Shift or Gate? One of the few things you can be assured of, is that wherever Dismissal takes a person, the area doesn't block planar travel."

The spell fails.
The nymph nods "Well... we don't have much to worry about in letting things slip, then. If Wish Transport won't get you to a specific known spot, when it will get you to a dead magic plane, then we've established that it takes something stronger than Wish to do the job... which pretty much means deific intervention, if even that works."

Sønderjye

2018-06-21, 08:10 AM

Noting that I don't see a necropolis scene. If this was intentional that's fine.

Battle Royale

Scourge feints being hurt by the wind buffets. Otherwise he remains standing. He smiles grimly as he raises the dorje high above his head and points it at the creature: "Succumb"

Full-round action: Using Staff Lord to use Ego Whip twice. Will DC 33 for half on each.
1st CL check: [roll0]
Cha damage [roll1]
2nd CL check: [roll2]
Cha Damage: [roll3]

Testing

Gaerb is deadmagic. Can the sim really plane shift out of a dead magic plane? That is what we have been testing with wish and I was assuming that that was different because someone outside of Gaerb wished someone inside of Gaerb out

War on gods

Houson sighs and gives the order. Simulatenously 4 pair of fingers are discretely snapped, aimed at erasing the giants memories of their interaction.

"Hey you, big guy," she says to the serving giant with smiling eyes: "I have questions about the gods and I was told that your Elder could help me. Can you take me to them?"

All 4 sims casting Consealed (https://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/general-feats/conceal-spell/), Heightened Memory Lapse. DC 33 Will. If a memory lapse can't erase their interaction they'll go with Modify Memory for the same DC.
Unless the giant can see invisibility it'll only get one chance to see the casting which is a DC 33 perception.
They are using 4 castings to do the same thing to minimize the chance that the gian passes.

Base

Ephermial Recollection sighs "Sorry... keep forgetting: My problems are just that: My problems. They don't always apply to others. Do be aware, though: Situationally Acquired Narcissism was a thing in the prior world that I spent a rather lot of time actively avoiding, even before I had a name for it. We almost certainly still have our prior psychologies." she sighs again "Obviously. Which is a good thing, really."

"I'll call you out on if it becomes a thing for you?" she offers. "I doubt it'll be much of a problem for me as long as I know my soul is being owned by a being that probably have double my mojo if not more."

"In your case, there's no spell required: you can just ask one of the copies of yourself that already exist: Given the option between never having existed vs. serving for a fixed term and then being free to do as they choose, if they'd have accepted the bargain. All of your copies will have essentially the same psychology, at least at the beginning, and will make the same choice. Once you know one's answer, you know them all. Well, until you change enough to have a different one, which really just means you need to repeat the exercise periodically. In my case, the same spawn that let me easily get simulacrums also let me readily use Commune or Vision to see about getting such answers. In your case..."

Tollens nods at the answers. They were good considerations. "I'd agree that most beings would prefer existing over not existing even under our stipulations but it's still a problematic act. Back on Earth it's a problem that children don't get to consent to the families they are born into and many suffer incredibly from it, and we can do better. Additionally we can use speak with dead to get the consent of reanimating anyone dead." He's silent for a moment before speaking again: "I'm not super sold on the 6 year flat servitude, it feels arbitrary and worse it's based on the expected lifespan of a human. In this world there's probabl beings that only live 8 years and then demanding 6 years is a bit much. What about a number of years comparable to what it takes for a child of that species to mature into adulthood?"

"Are we still talking animal level intellect, or are we drifting into people territory here? If we're still talking animals: Wild animals suffer when caged. If you get them young enough you can domesticate them without too much hassle, and they don't suffer for it... but the sort of animal you'd cage for being dangerous to folks?"she shakes her head "Mostly better to simply end them, or put them in some form of suspended animation." ER continues "If you are drifting into people territory... where you do you draw the line between editing someone and killing the prior person to make a new one? Don't get me wrong: That might not be a bad thing... once you've reached the point where terminating a person is a reasonable course of action. But... ah... how many permanent people editing spells are you aware of that'll make that sort of major change?"

"I'm not sure that I'm as ready as you to dismiss the value of non-sentient life. Regardless what we're talking about I'd say that temporal statis are better than death, especially since we need to destroy the souls of beings to be sure that they don't wreck havoc in the afterlife. I don't know any spells right now, there was a spell back in beta but that ended up being an utter mess. It seems possible that it could exist in this world though. Any edit would have to be the minimally needed such that we can trust that when we let them go would be off. There isn't a sharp line between value change and killing, if you believe that people changing is the same as dying then both puberty and parenthood are death, and something like going into anger management is equivalent to suicide."

The nymph raises an eyebrow "How do you propose to know exactly where she ended up to follow? Wouldn't it be easier to pack a Plane Shift or Gate? One of the few things you can be assured of, is that wherever Dismissal takes a person, the area doesn't block planar travel."

"I have a spell for it. Plane Shift and gate only works if we know where to go but we don't know where demons and devils come from. I suppose planar binding a demon would give us the answer but I'm lenient on revealing our power unless nessesary. Suppose a sim would retain the knowledge, though we would need to know a particular demon for that to work."

"Well... we don't have much to worry about in letting things slip, then. If Wish Transport won't get you to a specific known spot, when it will get you to a dead magic plane, then we've established that it takes something stronger than Wish to do the job... which pretty much means deific intervention, if even that works."

"Deific intervention is one option but not the only one. Maybe there's another spell or ritual that could do it that we don't know about. Maybe it's something about the planar makeup that means that you only can make a bridge to Earth if you are in a particular place. We'll have to learn more about this world before we can answer."

Jack_Simth

2018-06-24, 10:42 AM

"I'll call you out on if it becomes a thing for you?" she offers. "I doubt it'll be much of a problem for me as long as I know my soul is being owned by a being that probably have double my mojo if not more."
The Jack in the ghost sighs "If anything, I'm more concerned with me snapping at folks for simple loose language... I've been countering it for myself for quite some time, and it's unlikely I'll change my habits now."

Tollens nods at the answers. They were good considerations. "I'd agree that most beings would prefer existing over not existing even under our stipulations but it's still a problematic act. Back on Earth it's a problem that children don't get to consent to the families they are born into and many suffer incredibly from it, and we can do better. Additionally we can use speak with dead to get the consent of reanimating anyone dead." He's silent for a moment before speaking again: "I'm not super sold on the 6 year flat servitude, it feels arbitrary and worse it's based on the expected lifespan of a human. In this world there's probabl beings that only live 8 years and then demanding 6 years is a bit much. What about a number of years comparable to what it takes for a child of that species to mature into adulthood?"
Jack shrugs "Nobody gets a say in their own creation. Even if someone causes their own birth via some form of time travel ... the inherent chicken/egg paradox loop is, itself, an event without a cause - which simply means that person was created by the paradox. As to the ethics of the service? Every generation ends up supporting the prior in one way or another in essentially every society. That might be individuals taking in their parents when their parents can no longer support themselves, that might be on a mass scale where the government taxes the populace to have professional service folks handle it, that might be in a disorganized manner where the young take care of the old in return for some of the old folk's savings (and yes, before you object, that is the new generation supporting the old - if the new generation did not exist, that old rich guy would still starve after he stopped farming... or at least have to live on really old food after a time), or in a plethora of other methods and mixtures of the above... but no matter how it's handled, every new generation serves the prior. We're just codifying things a bit for our own use. Besides; it's not like we plan to hit them for laughs or starve them; just have them do useful work within their range."

He also shakes his head "And basing the time strictly off of expected lifespan is also problematic; suppose I make a simulacrum of, say, a Solar - it doesn't have a maximum age; what's 10% of infinity? Perhaps a min function ... six years, or one-tenth the expected lifespan of the base creature, whichever is less."

"I'm not sure that I'm as ready as you to dismiss the value of non-sentient life. Regardless what we're talking about I'd say that temporal statis are better than death, especially since we need to destroy the souls of beings to be sure that they don't wreck havoc in the afterlife. I don't know any spells right now, there was a spell back in beta but that ended up being an utter mess. It seems possible that it could exist in this world though. Any edit would have to be the minimally needed such that we can trust that when we let them go would be off. There isn't a sharp line between value change and killing, if you believe that people changing is the same as dying then both puberty and parenthood are death, and something like going into anger management is equivalent to suicide."

He rolls his eyes "There's a significant difference between when you change due to new experiences and when you change because someone subdued you and repeatedly crammed a Helm of Opposite Alignment on your head until the helm stopped registering as a magical item. The first is normal growth that everyone goes through. The second is editing an existing person. Growth's fine. Editing much less so. Sure, there will be situations where it may be an appropriate course of action... just like there's situations where dropping someone into the sun may be an appropriate course of action."

"I have a spell for it. Plane Shift and gate only works if we know where to go but we don't know where demons and devils come from. I suppose planar binding a demon would give us the answer but I'm lenient on revealing our power unless nessesary. Suppose a sim would retain the knowledge, though we would need to know a particular demon for that to work."
The ghost shrugs "I didn't mean us using Plane Shift to follow. I mean something like a scroll of Plane Shift, or someone with it prepared connected in such a way as to go along for the ride when the dismissal happens." He turns to Jenna "After all, you've very obviously got something very much like Mind Blank active. Do you have your own way back if needed?"

"Deific intervention is one option but not the only one. Maybe there's another spell or ritual that could do it that we don't know about. Maybe it's something about the planar makeup that means that you only can make a bridge to Earth if you are in a particular place. We'll have to learn more about this world before we can answer."
He shakes his head "Oh, there may be ways around it, but... Wish doesn't work, so we've established that it requires more than a particular baseline for general transition attempts. Sure, there might be some special location or a random artifact that does it... but your run-of-the-mill wight isn't going to be set loose at home any time soon."

Note: Shuffling up Eidolon abilities while I'm using Transmorgify anyway. Quick question: Did Spheres of Power and Path of War end up with blanket approval? I'm looking at snagging Lurker in Darkness, which was printed in both. Also Endurance and Diehard.

ThreadNecro5

2018-06-25, 02:30 PM

Actually, it wouldn't pass through. I spend nearly all of my time quite solid. Highly useful side-effect of something else I'm doing - even when I'm not possessing something, I'm still wearing a meatsuit (which looks like a nymph). Even when I don't have that particular ability active (it's dismissable) my gauntlets are ghost touch, and I've got a Ghost Touch Amulet of Mighty Fists, so I can still shake hands, work doorknobs, and such. Things like "What's my carrying capacity" don't have a RAW answer when that happens, though. Still, it's rare enough that it's unlikely to come up, and I won't generally be moving much mass without my meatsuit anyway.

If incorporeal carrying capacity becomes something we need a ruling on assume your equivalent strength is equal to your Dex score. I believe that is how things that turn corporeality on and off usually work as far as I recall.

Note: Shuffling up Eidolon abilities while I'm using Transmorgify anyway. Quick question: Did Spheres of Power and Path of War end up with blanket approval? I'm looking at snagging Lurker in Darkness, which was printed in both. Also Endurance and Diehard.

Spheres was given universal approval. Go ahead.

Noting that I don't see a necropolis scene. If this was intentional that's fine.
Sorry mistake on my end.

Necropolis

"Actually we could really use your help," the sim called Houston said, looking at the two beings under her long eyebrows. In any reasonable work flirting wouldn't work due to their crazily different biologies but there were plenty of half-whatever in genesis so it stood to reason that it wasn't impossible. "I really want to understand souls. Could you explain them to me?"

"That is your area of expertise then." says the Valkyrie to whatever her companion might be.

"Yes. That it would be." replies the flying torso, continuing to spray its black saliva as it talks, having no issues talking around the large tongue fulling it's mouth.

"What you ask it a complicated question. We would best start somewhere more specific".

Battle Royale

Scourge feints being hurt by the wind buffets. Otherwise he remains standing. He smiles grimly as he raises the dorje high above his head and points it at the creature: "Succumb"

Full-round action: Using Staff Lord to use Ego Whip twice. Will DC 33 for half on each.
1st CL check: [roll0]
Cha damage [roll1]
2nd CL check: [roll2]
Cha Damage: [roll3]

Rolling for 50% miss chance.[roll0]

Edit forgot to roll for the second one. Was 87.

You swipe with your air of Ego Whips but were unable to aim accurately into the cloud and miss with both.

The monster continues fleeing and continues to travel 100ft straight up.

Testing

Gaerb is deadmagic. Can the sim really plane shift out of a dead magic plane? That is what we have been testing with wish and I was assuming that that was different because someone outside of Gaerb wished someone inside of Gaerb out

My mistake. Plane shift could not get the sim off. I'd rule a wish could.

War on gods

Houson sighs and gives the order. Simulatenously 4 pair of fingers are discretely snapped, aimed at erasing the giants memories of their interaction.

"Hey you, big guy," she says to the serving giant with smiling eyes: "I have questions about the gods and I was told that your Elder could help me. Can you take me to them?"

All 4 sims casting Consealed (https://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/general-feats/conceal-spell/), Heightened Memory Lapse. DC 33 Will. If a memory lapse can't erase their interaction they'll go with Modify Memory for the same DC.
Unless the giant can see invisibility it'll only get one chance to see the casting which is a DC 33 perception.
They are using 4 castings to do the same thing to minimize the chance that the gian passes.
I may have forgot to ask so I'll ask again, so the scouts have any form of see invisibility?

Also I don't think you have something that would let you understand the sign language, yes?

As far as it's thoughts go the giant thinks 'Stranger. Claims to know of elders. Trouble.'

'See what it knows.'

The giant in the head cage twists ponderously away from the door to face you. Joints moving at angles that aren't quite right display a form of complex sign language.

Sønderjye

2018-06-26, 08:29 AM

Jack shrugs "Nobody gets a say in their own creation. Even if someone causes their own birth via some form of time travel ... the inherent chicken/egg paradox loop is, itself, an event without a cause - which simply means that person was created by the paradox. As to the ethics of the service? Every generation ends up supporting the prior in one way or another in essentially every society. That might be individuals taking in their parents when their parents can no longer support themselves, that might be on a mass scale where the government taxes the populace to have professional service folks handle it, that might be in a disorganized manner where the young take care of the old in return for some of the old folk's savings (and yes, before you object, that is the new generation supporting the old - if the new generation did not exist, that old rich guy would still starve after he stopped farming... or at least have to live on really old food after a time), or in a plethora of other methods and mixtures of the above... but no matter how it's handled, every new generation serves the prior. We're just codifying things a bit for our own use. Besides; it's not like we plan to hit them for laughs or starve them; just have them do useful work within their range."

"You're employing a naturalistic fallacy. Maybe evolution created a world in which prior generations served the next one but I refuse to take my ethics from a system that invented suffering. That stuff created worms which only possible way of achieving adulthood included living in humans for months and insects which first act after hatching is to eating their paralyzed host victim from the inside. We should do better and we are in a position to do better."

[B]"So rounding up that part we should only create that we can reasonably expect would contribute positively to the world if left to do their own thing, and we should try to figure out whether they would want to be created under whatever conditions we give them. Permanent mind control can be used as an alternative to prison and if we find either unfeasible or too risky killing a creature needs to include destroying it's soul as well as anti-ressurection methods. In agreement?"

"Should we allow beings to choose whether to be mindcontrolled or to be put in stasis?"

"And basing the time strictly off of expected lifespan is also problematic; suppose I make a simulacrum of, say, a Solar - it doesn't have a maximum age; what's 10% of infinity? Perhaps a min function ... six years, or one-tenth the expected lifespan of the base creature, whichever is less."

"Valid consern", he consedes: "I like the idea of a min function though I think that six years must feel like a dustspec in a desert for beings that normally live forever. What makes it better than 20 or 2000? An alternative is to negotiate with the individual we want to create, asking how long they'd be willing to serve in exchange for existing and see whether we find that agreeable."

He rolls his eyes "There's a significant difference between when you change due to new experiences and when you change because someone subdued you and repeatedly crammed a Helm of Opposite Alignment on your head until the helm stopped registering as a magical item. The first is normal growth that everyone goes through. The second is editing an existing person. Growth's fine. Editing much less so. Sure, there will be situations where it may be an appropriate course of action... just like there's situations where dropping someone into the sun may be an appropriate course of action."

"There's that naturalistic fallacy again. Just because we were designed in a way to be completely different persons after hormones without our consent rewrites our entire person doesn't give it the moral highground. If we allowed beings a choice between editting, statis or mind-control they'd at least have a choice which is more than you can say about any puberty."

The ghost shrugs "I didn't mean us using Plane Shift to follow. I mean something like a scroll of Plane Shift, or someone with it prepared connected in such a way as to go along for the ride when the dismissal happens." He turns to Jenna "After all, you've very obviously got something very much like Mind Blank active. Do you have your own way back if needed?"

Tollens sends Jack a charming smile: "Perhaps mind blank is enough to stop you but I got my ways around it. Though I'm curious, how would you follow a dismissal?"

"Alternatively we could also simply summon a demon and ask it where hell is. Wait, no, actually this might be a good time to learn exactly how shadow summoning works." And with those words she summons focuses her magical energies and forms a hezrou demon out of shadowstuff.

"You," Scourge says in a commanding voice to the newly formed demon: "Tell us about the plane in which demons reside."

Using Shades(Summon Monster VIII) to summon a Demon, Hezrou (https://www.d20pfsrd.com/bestiary/monster-listings/outsiders/demon/hezrou)
Necropolis

Houston follows the interaction between the two with great attention. Was it disappointment that she detected from the valkyrie or relief over not being needed?

"Let's start with what the purpose of souls are and how they fufill that?", she suggests while silently wondering what the thing she was talking to was. She knew it wasn't her prime objective but her curiosity was itching to know.

Battle Royale

Scourge frowns as both purple whips fail to impact the being at all and then again when the creature seems to flee despite from his .

It had been sloppy to attack without identifying which effects were affecting the other creature. Really all of this fight had been sloppy and this last exchange had just made it that much more obvious. Still it was a valuable learning experience. This far he had been supressing many of his information gathering abilities during the fight to be able to better focus but if he were to go up against a foes of equal power that just wouldn't do. He took a deep breath, fortunately the longues still worked even if they weren't needed per say, and focused all his attention on the being.

All of these are free actions since my actions will have to depend on the information I get.
Permanent Arcane Sight gives the schools of the magic involved and their relative strength. The DCs are beaten even on a 1.
Spellcraft to learn which spells are being cast. DCs for everything less than a lvl 25 spell is beat even on a 1.
Kno(arcane) to identify the spell effects currently in place. DCs for everything less than a 20th lvl spell is beaten on a 1.
Sense motive to understand whether the thing actually is trying to flee or not. [roll0]
It seems like the thing is fleeing which presumably means that I won. Does that mean that I get XP?
War on gods

Scouts does have see invisibility.
Muse gives Truespeech though the particulars of that feature isn't specified. I never bothered to fill out the languages of Scourge since I figured that Truespeech would cover it all. I'd guess that Truespeech is an EX version of Truespeak which specifies that it doesn't only translate spoken languages. However even if you rule that Truespeech doesn't cover it, I have 20+ languages from high int and ranks in linguistic, so I'd probably have something between 5-10 sign languages.

Eldest

2018-06-26, 01:36 PM

I think Unplottable would block True Seeing but Truesight is not a Divination effect so it wouldn't be stopped. Similarly a Nightmare Creature's auto disbelieve wouldn't be blocked, which retroactively makes things awkward.

Before anyone asks I suppose in Genesis there would've had a permeant underwear texture.

Also why does something like this always happen in games I'm in? My first game in this site was me running Vampire and the NPC informant wound up projecting from their body to go look for the PCs after they spent too long blindly wandering a nightcub. Another time I run the tomb of horrors and most of the characters wound up nude due to a near dungeon-wide trap that has. Beyond that I have a tendency to forget to add clothes to new character sheets and only realise midway through the session prying over equipment. Mini-rant over, I just thought it strange.

Before anything else: I hate overt sexuality getting into a game that has not agreed on it previously. I did not think about how easy the damn clothes would be to see through, and it was meant thematically as a rejection of this world and a affirmation of Earth as her home. I'm sorry that it came up, and regret doing the illusion clothes.

Side note: romance is freaking great, I have romance subplots all over the place, but sex doesn't have a position at your typical tabletop beyond a fade to black.

"No confirmation but it bear to mind whether gods are a seperate type or just any being sufficiently powerful. I know it has diefic power which in Genesis meant 41+ hit die. The prior thing was Appolyon, the horseman of plague, who was a 35HD daemon who was mythic on it's plane. The lore said that horsemen had been killed in the past for what it's worth. Good idea with starting with demons and devils. I guess we'll confirm whether there's a hell or not soon enough. Jen, how would you feel about a dismissal and we'd follow immediately after?"

Yeah, sure, I can do that, give me a bit to prep though.

Tollens nods at the answers. They were good considerations. "I'd agree that most beings would prefer existing over not existing even under our stipulations but it's still a problematic act. Back on Earth it's a problem that children don't get to consent to the families they are born into and many suffer incredibly from it, and we can do better. Additionally we can use speak with dead to get the consent of reanimating anyone dead." He's silent for a moment before speaking again: "I'm not super sold on the 6 year flat servitude, it feels arbitrary and worse it's based on the expected lifespan of a human. In this world there's probabl beings that only live 8 years and then demanding 6 years is a bit much. What about a number of years comparable to what it takes for a child of that species to mature into adulthood?"

She takes a deep, calming breath, and lets it out, the horrors of her own family flashing in front of her eyes briefly. No. The people we create, for lack of a better word our offspring, owe us nothing. We can ask if they'd be willing to work with us. But demanding or forcing it is... horrific.

The ghost shrugs "I didn't mean us using Plane Shift to follow. I mean something like a scroll of Plane Shift, or someone with it prepared connected in such a way as to go along for the ride when the dismissal happens." He turns to Jenna "After all, you've very obviously got something very much like Mind Blank active. Do you have your own way back if needed?"

She takes a deep breath to calm down.I have a roundabout way or two back, yes. Would need either a ritual of Plane Shift or Ethereal Jaunt to deposit me back here, assuming those work. A scroll would be safer.

[B]"So rounding up that part we should only create that we can reasonably expect would contribute positively to the world if left to do their own thing, and we should try to figure out whether they would want to be created under whatever conditions we give them. Permanent mind control can be used as an alternative to prison and if we find either unfeasible or too risky killing a creature needs to include destroying it's soul as well as anti-ressurection methods. In agreement? Should we allow beings to choose whether to be mindcontrolled or to be put in stasis?"

"Valid consern", he consedes: "I like the idea of a min function though I think that six years must feel like a dustspec in a desert for beings that normally live forever. What makes it better than 20 or 2000? An alternative is to negotiate with the individual we want to create, asking how long they'd be willing to serve in exchange for existing and see whether we find that agreeable."

Or. She says curtly. We could simply ask if they're willing to work with us, and offer to support them either way. We are not tied to the previous paradigms. We have functionally ****ing infinite resources and time, with the only constraint on either being Earth's time rate in relation to this one, and if we catch the attention of something bigger than us here. We can make a bloody society where you don't have to work, but you can chose to, or not. I refuse to live like a feudal lord and have my, again for lack of a better term, offspring owe me their livelihoods. And I will be furious if you do the same.

Jack_Simth

2018-06-26, 09:46 PM

"You're employing a naturalistic fallacy. Maybe evolution created a world in which prior generations served the next one but I refuse to take my ethics from a system that invented suffering. That stuff created worms which only possible way of achieving adulthood included living in humans for months and insects which first act after hatching is to eating their paralyzed host victim from the inside. We should do better and we are in a position to do better."

The corrupted nature spirit shrugs "Well, first, I was saying the young serve the elder eventually, you got my intent backwards. Second, I was speaking of functioning human societies, not animals, so it's hardly a naturalistic fallacy. Third... So? Pure logic cannot produce an 'ought' ... dig far enough into any ethical framework that produces an 'ought', and you'll find unprovable assumptions that someone put there because they felt right ... without which, the 'ought' doesn't hold. They may be buried under layers of logical argument or obfuscated by examples, but if you dig deep enough, they'll be there. Ultimately, there's no logical reason for choosing life over death, pleasure over pain, or good over evil - those are all value judgments stemming from emotions. Someone with a different set will produce a different 'ought'. As an exercise, try proving that logic is what should be used to distinguish right and wrong. Oh yes, and avoid circular logic - You can't use what you're trying to prove to support what you're trying to prove; the closest thing to that being valid is proof-by-contradiction."

Or. She says curtly. We could simply ask if they're willing to work with us, and offer to support them either way. We are not tied to the previous paradigms. We have functionally ****ing infinite resources and time, with the only constraint on either being Earth's time rate in relation to this one, and if we catch the attention of something bigger than us here. We can make a bloody society where you don't have to work, but you can chose to, or not. I refuse to live like a feudal lord and have my, again for lack of a better term, offspring owe me their livelihoods. And I will be furious if you do the same.
She sighs "Case in point. And here I was hoping that we could attract the attention of any mods that might exist the easy way. Ah well."

[/COLOR][B]"So rounding up that part we should only create that we can reasonably expect would contribute positively to the world if left to do their own thing, and we should try to figure out whether they would want to be created under whatever conditions we give them. Permanent mind control can be used as an alternative to prison and if we find either unfeasible or too risky killing a creature needs to include destroying it's soul as well as anti-ressurection methods. In agreement?"

"Should we allow beings to choose whether to be mindcontrolled or to be put in stasis?"

She sighs "A: Sure. B: Sure. C: Not so much. In order for soul-destroying follow up to be considered necessary, you're going to first need to show that that the post-death situation will also be much improved by that action - basically, that the critter would cause sufficient trouble in the afterlife to be worth offing."

She continues "And no. Once you've reached a point where you're sufficiently satisfied that your target needs to be removed by force, giving the target choices in the matter is a bad idea. Most will pick the one they think they've got the best odds of getting out of - which will usually be mind control, as it's less generally stable. As the point in such a scenario is to prevent them from doing so, going with what they want is counterproductive. I'll generally default to putting targets in stasis, personally."

Tollens sends Jack a charming smile: "Perhaps mind blank is enough to stop you but I got my ways around it. Though I'm curious, how would you follow a dismissal?"
She takes a deep breath to calm down.I have a roundabout way or two back, yes. Would need either a ritual of Plane Shift or Ethereal Jaunt to deposit me back here, assuming those work. A scroll would be safer.
The ghost shrugs and demonstrates with a summon, casting, in order: Mount for a demonstration subject and Shadow Transmutation to turn it into a tiny animal; she then picks it up, puts it away in her Haversack for a moment, pulls it back out, sets it down, and dismisses the Shadow Transmutation spell. She then asks "If I'd gotten Dismissed while the horse was in storage, do you think it would have come with me? After all, the horse was on a different plane when it happened anyway, and I'm carrying access to said plane. Doesn't even require much trust - the polymorphee can dismiss the spell themselves if needed, it doesn't mess with a person's head, and if you've got the ability to use planar travel you can get out of extradimensional storage as needed. We'd need PaO or better for one of your copies, but basically anyone willing to go through with it that has Plane Shift would do. Simpler if you've got a scroll of Plane Shift handy, obviously, but that burns permanent resources rather than just daily ones. Putting things that were never intended to interact with each other together to do stuff is ... or should that be was... part of how I make a living."

ThreadNecro5

2018-06-29, 04:12 PM

Before anything else: I hate overt sexuality getting into a game that has not agreed on it previously. I did not think about how easy the damn clothes would be to see through, and it was meant thematically as a rejection of this world and a affirmation of Earth as her home. I'm sorry that it came up, and regret doing the illusion clothes.

Side note: romance is freaking great, I have romance subplots all over the place, but sex doesn't have a position at your typical tabletop beyond a fade to black.

After looking into what may be the best solution I'll let you combine the abilities of a Sleeves of Many Garments (https://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic-items/wondrous-items/wondrous-items/r-z/sleeves-of-many-garments/) with your current Bracelet magic item. The sleeves are not distinctly an illusion so effects that bypass those won't be an issue and we can all just pretend true seeing and equivalents see the item as it presciently is. Barring Mages Disjunction or a disenchanter, that should prevent future wardrobe malfunctions.

"Alternatively we could also simply summon a demon and ask it where hell is. Wait, no, actually this might be a good time to learn exactly how shadow summoning works." And with those words she summons focuses her magical energies and forms a hezrou demon out of shadowstuff.

"You," Scourge says in a commanding voice to the newly formed demon: "Tell us about the plane in which demons reside."

Using Shades(Summon Monster VIII) to summon a Demon, Hezrou (https://www.d20pfsrd.com/bestiary/monster-listings/outsiders/demon/hezrou)

The oozing amphibian-looking demon looks about lazily

"We mostly come from Cruzekla. I would like a good pond of clotted rot to wallow myself" it croaks " but you probably want more". The slothful incarnation of pollution pauses and sighs as if the effort is painful.

"It is... variable, that's the word yes? You can find every desire and pleasure catered for. The only consistent feature is the bloodstorm, the red deluge only stopping when the ruler leaves his abode. It's a paradise really".

Necropolis

Houston follows the interaction between the two with great attention. Was it disappointment that she detected from the valkyrie or relief over not being needed?

"Let's start with what the purpose of souls are and how they fufill that?", she suggests while silently wondering what the thing she was talking to was. She knew it wasn't her prime objective but her curiosity was itching to know.

"Well, as I have read, souls were not an intentional creation. Rather they were an accidental creation born as an alternate to crafting a being directly of planar material. Think of it as wood and metal. Both materials have uses and even overlap in those but still different properties. As to the most interesting feature is unlike planar material a mortal soul has no inherent draw to a given plane. A demon, no matter how hard they may change their ways, will always trend towards Chaos and Evil, but a mortal soul is free to be whoever they make of their lives".

"This is due to their origin you see. They can be considered magic of a sort. Growing naturally from unaligned magic at the moment of life's genesis and becoming the most vital part of the being. The body of flesh or whatever may be may be of planar material but the soul is... free I suppose is a good word. Not that us beings of the plane are automata or slaves just that, say, I will trend to follow an orderly system while my friend here will be more likely to act independently and 'think with her gut' as some say.

As it talks two of it's eyes continue to focus on you while the others focus down at itself. With one pair of arms it claws deep into itself and pulls forth a bandage like length of whatever it's body is composed of. It's other arms both proceed to write on the extrusion of itself using it's saliva as ink and claws an a quill. It rolls up the town part of itself until it finishes talking and the who part comes free, rolled into a neat ancient-looking scroll.

"Also please have this treatise on my knowledge of souls in case we fail to have sufficient time. I must say however I may only maintain one such scroll of a given topic so in the event I must provide such an item to another it will crumble to ash, as would occur on my death".

Treat the scroll as a library on the topic of souls that grants a +5 circumstance bonus however it is difficult to navigate so it always takes three hours to answer a single question with it. It is waterproof but otherwise as vulnerable to damage as any other paper.

Battle Royale
Scourge frowns as both purple whips fail to impact the being at all and then again when the creature seems to flee despite from his .

It had been sloppy to attack without identifying which effects were affecting the other creature. Really all of this fight had been sloppy and this last exchange had just made it that much more obvious. Still it was a valuable learning experience. This far he had been supressing many of his information gathering abilities during the fight to be able to better focus but if he were to go up against a foes of equal power that just wouldn't do. He took a deep breath, fortunately the longues still worked even if they weren't needed per say, and focused all his attention on the being.

All of these are free actions since my actions will have to depend on the information I get.
Permanent Arcane Sight gives the schools of the magic involved and their relative strength. The DCs are beaten even on a 1.
Spellcraft to learn which spells are being cast. DCs for everything less than a lvl 25 spell is beat even on a 1.
Kno(arcane) to identify the spell effects currently in place. DCs for everything less than a 20th lvl spell is beaten on a 1.
Sense motive to understand whether the thing actually is trying to flee or not. [roll0]
It seems like the thing is fleeing which presumably means that I won. Does that mean that I get XP?

You get 56,800 XP

The mist is faint conjuration resulting from a variant Obscuring Mist with properties not unlike a weaker Polar Midnight.

There is also a strong aura of Divination from True Seeing.

It is indeed fleeing.

War on gods
Scouts does have see invisibility.
Muse gives Truespeech though the particulars of that feature isn't specified. I never bothered to fill out the languages of Scourge since I figured that Truespeech would cover it all. I'd guess that Truespeech is an EX version of Truespeak which specifies that it doesn't only translate spoken languages. However even if you rule that Truespeech doesn't cover it, I have 20+ languages from high int and ranks in linguistic, so I'd probably have something between 5-10 sign languages.

The language is not one that existed in Genesis.

I'd imagine Truespeech works the same as an angels ability of the same name, which gives permeant Tongues.

Tongues does not work on creatures that don't speak so I think it isn't understood.

Jack_Simth

2018-07-01, 07:30 AM

Per Sønderjye on Discord: "My schedule for the next month is pretty hectic so posting will be erratic."
So... not going to wait to find out how he responds to the exercise.

The oozing amphibian-looking demon looks about lazily

"We mostly come from Cruzekla. I would like a good pond of clotted rot to wallow myself" it croaks " but you probably want more". The slothful incarnation of pollution pauses and sighs as if the effort is painful.

"It is... variable, that's the word yes? You can find every desire and pleasure catered for. The only consistent feature is the bloodstorm, the red deluge only stopping when the ruler leaves his abode. It's a paradise really".
The man in a woman's ... well, not quite 'body' ... inquires of the shaped shadow-stuff "Mind answering a few questions for me?" She starts counting in ASL on her left hand, beginning with one, with just her index finger "Who engages in the soul trade here?" She continues on her hand to two, using the index and middle fingers "Is there any ... end uses for souls that get traded, and" She ticks over to three, adding her thumb to the mix "if so, what are they?"

Sønderjye

2018-07-01, 01:05 PM

Verifying what Jack said about my posting.
Base

She takes a deep, calming breath, and lets it out, the horrors of her own family flashing in front of her eyes briefly. No. The people we create, for lack of a better word our offspring, owe us nothing. We can ask if they'd be willing to work with us. But demanding or forcing it is... horrific.'

Or. She says curtly. We could simply ask if they're willing to work with us, and offer to support them either way. We are not tied to the previous paradigms. We have functionally ****ing infinite resources and time, with the only constraint on either being Earth's time rate in relation to this one, and if we catch the attention of something bigger than us here. We can make a bloody society where you don't have to work, but you can chose to, or not. I refuse to live like a feudal lord and have my, again for lack of a better term, offspring owe me their livelihoods. And I will be furious if you do the same.

Chase is silent for a while. There was something to be said for that they didn't want to go back to feudalism. He felt that Morgan were ignoring the nuances of the choice they would give their creations but it had already been said and there was no point in repeating it. It stood as fact though that the ability to create numbers were one of their most powerful assets. Fortunately it had seemed that the demon weren't totally opposed to the idea. Scourge gestured towards Chad the guard and said: "So how would you like to handle people creation?"

The corrupted nature spirit shrugs "Well, first, I was saying the young serve the elder eventually, you got my intent backwards. Second, I was speaking of functioning human societies, not animals, so it's hardly a naturalistic fallacy. Third... So? Pure logic cannot produce an 'ought' ... dig far enough into any ethical framework that produces an 'ought', and you'll find unprovable assumptions that someone put there because they felt right ... without which, the 'ought' doesn't hold. They may be buried under layers of logical argument or obfuscated by examples, but if you dig deep enough, they'll be there. Ultimately, there's no logical reason for choosing life over death, pleasure over pain, or good over evil - those are all value judgments stemming from emotions. Someone with a different set will produce a different 'ought'. As an exercise, try proving that logic is what should be used to distinguish right and wrong. Oh yes, and avoid circular logic - You can't use what you're trying to prove to support what you're trying to prove; the closest thing to that being valid is proof-by-contradiction."

"You argued that it was fine that our creations served us because younger generations served the older one. Regardless of whether you call that a naturalistic fallacy it's a poor argument morally because it's validity is based on the premise that a service structure generated by evolution should be superior to alternatives. And I'm not following how the gap between moral and logic are relevant. Sure, it boils down to emotionally charged values but that doesn't let you avoid moral responsibility. For instance it seems reasonable to take the wants and desires of each individuals into considerations when making a judgement on the morality of an action. Or were you making a point that I missed?"

C: Not so much. In order for soul-destroying follow up to be considered necessary, you're going to first need to show that that the post-death situation will also be much improved by that action - basically, that the critter would cause sufficient trouble in the afterlife to be worth offing."

"That's a fair point. Though if we're actually need to kill something, it's probably likely that it'll cause pain and suffering in the next life."

And no. Once you've reached a point where you're sufficiently satisfied that your target needs to be removed by force, giving the target choices in the matter is a bad idea. Most will pick the one they think they've got the best odds of getting out of - which will usually be mind control, as it's less generally stable. As the point in such a scenario is to prevent them from doing so, going with what they want is counterproductive. I'll generally default to putting targets in stasis, personally.

"I don't think that's nessesarily a bad thing. The point of mindcontrol or statis isn't as punishment, and there's close to a 0% chance that anyone will change their behaviour from being in statis for a number of years. The point is to remove them as a threat and if their time in removal is enjoyable by having hope that's a net positive. Mind controlled individuals would only be used when we considered it safe and needed, though some abilities would be incredibly useful to have on hand. Of course if we discover that people escape from mind control too often we'll have to with statis or death."

The ghost shrugs and demonstrates with a summon, casting, in order: Mount for a demonstration subject and Shadow Transmutation to turn it into a tiny animal; she then picks it up, puts it away in her Haversack for a moment, pulls it back out, sets it down, and dismisses the Shadow Transmutation spell. She then ask"If I'd gotten Dismissed while the horse was in storage, do you think it would have come with me? After all, the horse was on a different plane when it happened anyway, and I'm carrying access to said plane. Doesn't even require much trust - the polymorphee can dismiss the spell themselves if needed, it doesn't mess with a person's head, and if you've got the ability to use planar travel you can get out of extradimensional storage as needed. We'd need PaO or better for one of your copies, but basically anyone willing to go through with it that has Plane Shift would do. Simpler if you've got a scroll of Plane Shift handy, obviously, but that burns permanent resources rather than just daily ones. Putting things that were never intended to interact with each other together to do stuff is ... or should that be was... part of how I make a living."

Scourge kneels down to examine the mousehorse. Does it seem affected by being in the haversack?
"I got no scrolls", he comments.

The oozing amphibian-looking demon looks about lazily

"We mostly come from Cruzekla. I would like a good pond of clotted rot to wallow myself" it croaks " but you probably want more". The slothful incarnation of pollution pauses and sighs as if the effort is painful.

"It is... variable, that's the word yes? You can find every desire and pleasure catered for. The only consistent feature is the bloodstorm, the red deluge only stopping when the ruler leaves his abode. It's a paradise really".

"Clotted rot? Does it the base of the rot matter or would any rot suffice?"

"Cruzekla, Cruzekla...". The word was familiar.. "Oh", he realizes: "That's one of the many planes that the Locust has it's dirty hand deep inside."

If the demon doesn't answer Jack by itself Chase will prompt it to answer Jack's questions. He also had questions of his own:
"What happens in Cruzekla? Is it a paradise for all who is there or only for some? What about non-demons? And who is the ruler?"

Necropolis

The scout listens attentively and then asks: "What does it mean to trend towards something?"

Her eyes opens wide as her trained crafter gaze understands what the scrolls is capable of: "Thank you", she says momentarily lost for words: "That is truely a generous gift. What is your name?"

Battle Royale

Scourge looks after the fleeing murderous creature and choses not to pursue when he feels the sweet sensation of accumulating experience. This had proved a valuable learning experience and he'd have to find a way of dealing with incoorporeal creatures. 'Have someone trace it', he says to the Network of Chases: 'We did violently intrude on it and the reason I'm not chasing is that I don't just want to randomly kill things even for experience points. I don't want it to murder a village in anger or something though, so we need eyes on it.'

He then turns his attention to the surrounding battlefield. This was an opportunity to test the world and to maybe gain some goodwill. If this was a game simulation you'd expect that there would be treasure somewhere around given that he just defeated a monster and there was the possibility of jumping into a questline. If not there was maybe survivors caught in the crossfire around.

"Are you in need of help? The monster is gone", Scourge calls out as he starts searching through the ice and snow in search of valueables or survivors.

Perception to find people: [roll0]. Blowing a casting on Glimpse of the Akashi for a +27 bonus. Ending Bardic Performance, which should have cost me about 6 rounds.

We might want to take a moment to talk about experience. Do you want to keep track of it and tell me when/if I hit lvl, or do I update experience on my sheet? Also, what experience track(fast, medium, slow) were they using in Genesis? That is to say, how much experience does a 20th lvl tristal character have?

56,800? That's a curious number. The CR 15 gave 51,200 and the next number in the table is over 70,000. Dd I get penalized for letting it flee or for being immune to most of the stuff the thing was throwing at me?

War on Gods

Presumably the thing also thinks what it's saying and the expected responds. What am I getting from detect thoughts?

ThreadNecro5

2018-07-02, 04:20 PM

Just pointing out I'll be on holiday for a week from next Monday.

Per Sønderjye on Discord: "My schedule for the next month is pretty hectic so posting will be erratic."
So... not going to wait to find out how he responds to the exercise.

The man in a woman's ... well, not quite 'body' ... inquires of the shaped shadow-stuff "Mind answering a few questions for me?" She starts counting in ASL on her left hand, beginning with one, with just her index finger "Who engages in the soul trade here?" She continues on her hand to two, using the index and middle fingers "Is there any ... end uses for souls that get traded, and" She ticks over to three, adding her thumb to the mix "if so, what are they?"

"Anyone who wants to does it I guess, Cruzekla isn't the biggest hub of that but there is everything there including souls to trade." It shifts its bulk as it stretches. "They have uses. Magic, making things, I don't know that kind of stuff. Tasty though".

A brainwave passes through the sluggish demon's mind.

"Why'd you get hold of me and not a devil anyway"?

Verifying what Jack said about my posting.

Thank you for keeping me informed.

Scourge kneels down to examine the mousehorse. Does it seem affected by being in the haversack?
"I got no scrolls", he comments.

The horse/mouse in the bag seems unharmed by the short period of storage.

"Clotted rot? Does it the base of the rot matter or would any rot suffice?"
The demon shrugs.

"By preference a good stagnant pool of swamp water would be pleasant, fetid and ripe filth. But we're not picky. Whatever you're thinking, think more".

[COLOR=#008000]"What happens in Cruzekla? Is it a paradise for all who is there or only for some? What about non-demons?

And who is the ruler?"

"Ocborth, as much as the plane has one. He does as he wishes and cannot be stopped, what else would he be".

[B]Necropolis
The scout listens attentively and then asks: "What does it mean to trend towards something?"

"Well why isn't understood but when the original deities formed they came with opposing concepts. Law and chaos, good and evil. Some had ties to one or two of these, others none. What is impotent is these can be more than concepts as most forms of mortal life understand but are also able to exist as materials and energy. A plane and its deity are one so when one creates a creature from planar material it is truly composed of those forces. The creature is left with certain tendencies, in effect part of the base instincts of the creature".

"It can be a difficult concept to grasp, almost oxymoronic, to be bound by certain behaviours and ideas while yet being free willed creatures who can grow and develop as any person might.

"Well anyway while a mortal soul can be said to trend to these concepts too, the right magic can detect and track these to an extent. Unlike creatures of the planes these trends are born from behaviours that are chosen. Think of it as mortals have these originate from external acts while beings such as me have it born internally as well as through actions and choices".

Her eyes opens wide as her trained crafter gaze understands what the scrolls is capable of: "Thank you", she says momentarily lost for words: "That is truely a generous gift. What is your name?"

"Call me Al-Ao-Hbet".

Battle Royale
Scourge looks after the fleeing murderous creature and choses not to pursue when he feels the sweet sensation of accumulating experience. This had proved a valuable learning experience and he'd have to find a way of dealing with incoorporeal creatures. 'Have someone trace it', he says to the Network of Chases: 'We did violently intrude on it and the reason I'm not chasing is that I don't just want to randomly kill things even for experience points. I don't want it to murder a village in anger or something though, so we need eyes on it.'

He then turns his attention to the surrounding battlefield. This was an opportunity to test the world and to maybe gain some goodwill. If this was a game simulation you'd expect that there would be treasure somewhere around given that he just defeated a monster and there was the possibility of jumping into a questline. If not there was maybe survivors caught in the crossfire around.

"Are you in need of help? The monster is gone", Scourge calls out as he starts searching through the ice and snow in search of valueables or survivors.

Perception to find people: [roll0]. Blowing a casting on Glimpse of the Akashi for a +27 bonus. Ending Bardic Performance, which should have cost me about 6 rounds.

We might want to take a moment to talk about experience. Do you want to keep track of it and tell me when/if I hit lvl, or do I update experience on my sheet? Also, what experience track(fast, medium, slow) were they using in Genesis? That is to say, how much experience does a 20th lvl tristal character have?

56,800? That's a curious number. The CR 15 gave 51,200 and the next number in the table is over 70,000. Dd I get penalized for letting it flee or for being immune to most of the stuff the thing was throwing at me?

You find yourself alone, no loot, bodies, passers by, or anything but you, the weather, and the slowly shrinking cloud as your recent opponent keeps fleeing up.

"We will keep an eye on it, anything interesting to keep watch for? Intelligence? And... does it seem to breathe, it's showing no signs of stopping its ascent"?

It was a typo. It should be 76,800, that's what I get for typing in the dark.

You track XP, Medium progression.

War on Gods
Presumably the thing also thinks what it's saying and the expected responds. What am I getting from detect thoughts?
True

As it attempts to communicate the giant thinks 'Does it understand?' Likely asking the same question by it's signs.

Jack_Simth

2018-07-02, 08:56 PM

"You argued that it was fine that our creations served us because younger generations served the older one. Regardless of whether you call that a naturalistic fallacy it's a poor argument morally because it's validity is based on the premise that a service structure generated by evolution should be superior to alternatives. And I'm not following how the gap between moral and logic are relevant. Sure, it boils down to emotionally charged values but that doesn't let you avoid moral responsibility. For instance it seems reasonable to take the wants and desires of each individuals into considerations when making a judgement on the morality of an action. Or were you making a point that I missed?"

Ephermial Recollection sighs, and looks at the horned lady "You've obviously got scars... I'd rather not deepen them without pressing need. So..." She turns back to Scourge "I could walk you through where you're missing what I'm saying... eventually... but that won't greatly improve the situation, and would cause some unneeded pain. So I'm dropping the topic for now."

"That's a fair point. Though if we're actually need to kill something, it's probably likely that it'll cause pain and suffering in the next life."

Ephermial Recollection shrugs "Maybe. Maybe not. It's one of those things that needs investigation. Most predators hunt because they're hungry; does a soul without a body hunger? I haven't felt the need to eat since the event, and it's been a few days subjective time. Finding out whether or not a ... let's go with a lion... will continue to hunt post-death seems like it'd be fairly straightforward thing to check, and a relatively reasonable evidence to request before accepting soul destruction as a standard policy. Please, get back to me once you've got that one sorted. In the meantime: I tend to default to trapping things I want gone anyway, and if I do smack something to death, well... I've got Create Spawn, so it's soul usually isn't going anywhere."

"I don't think that's nessesarily a bad thing. The point of mindcontrol or statis isn't as punishment, and there's close to a 0% chance that anyone will change their behaviour from being in statis for a number of years. The point is to remove them as a threat and if their time in removal is enjoyable by having hope that's a net positive. Mind controlled individuals would only be used when we considered it safe and needed, though some abilities would be incredibly useful to have on hand. Of course if we discover that people escape from mind control too often we'll have to with statis or death."
Ephermial Recollection shrugs "What's too often? Although... with most forms of stasis, it can be undone readily enough by someone on the outside. So if we've got someone in stasis we want to mind-control, it's only a mild hassle to switch. And vice-versa, I suppose, which among other things means as long as we do one or the other... and as a result, it barely matters which we start with, as we can easily discuss specific merits for specific cases and switch the specific scenario as needed."

Scourge kneels down to examine the mousehorse. Does it seem affected by being in the haversack?
"I got no scrolls", he comments.
ER shrugs "You're a pretty good gauge of your copies. Would one of the ones that doesn't suffocate be willing to do that ride-along? I saw you work with that Djorie of Psychic Reformation, so I'm quite sure one of them can get Plane Shift, no problems. It's just a matter of getting a willing person to go with. I suppose I could do it myself..." she considers for a bit, trailing off and a little lost in thought.

"Anyone who wants to does it I guess, Cruzekla isn't the biggest hub of that but there is everything there including souls to trade." It shifts its bulk as it stretches. "They have uses. Magic, making things, I don't know that kind of stuff. Tasty though".

A brainwave passes through the sluggish demon's mind.

"Why'd you get hold of me and not a devil anyway"?

Ephermial Recollection settles on looking vaguely confused, and says "Why wouldn't we pick at random? We can always try again if you don't work out." And adds a little flattery to go with a question "Besides - you've already told us things we didn't know - you've obviously got a fair amount going on upstairs. Perhaps you could tell us about some of these magic items, or how eating a soul makes you feel?"

It was a typo. It should be 76,800, that's what I get for typing in the dark.

You track XP, Medium progression.

So... we're looking at "To gain a level beyond 20th, a character must double the experience points needed to achieve the previous level. Thus, assuming the medium XP progression, a 20th-level character needs 2,100,000 XP to become 21st level, since he needed 1,050,000 XP to reach 20th level from 19th. He’d then need 4,200,000 XP to reach 22nd level, 8,400,000 XP to reach 23rd, and so on." from Here (https://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/character-advancement/#TOC-Advancing-Beyond-20th-Level)?

Are we starting at base 20th, then, on medium? I'm assuming so for now.

ThreadNecro5

2018-07-04, 01:27 PM

Ephermial Recollection settles on looking vaguely confused, and says "Why wouldn't we pick at random? We can always try again if you don't work out." And adds a little flattery to go with a question "Besides - you've already told us things we didn't know - you've obviously got a fair amount going on upstairs. Perhaps you could tell us about some of these magic items, or how eating a soul makes you feel?"
"Far as I know things made with souls are as any other" says the demon shrugging. "'Far as eating them is concerned, the taste varies from person to person. Demonkind has no compulsion as a whole unlike daemons or soul eaters, but when you feel like one there's nothing quite like them though. Try one if you get the chance".

So... we're looking at "To gain a level beyond 20th, a character must double the experience points needed to achieve the previous level. Thus, assuming the medium XP progression, a 20th-level character needs 2,100,000 XP to become 21st level, since he needed 1,050,000 XP to reach 20th level from 19th. He’d then need 4,200,000 XP to reach 22nd level, 8,400,000 XP to reach 23rd, and so on." from Here (https://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/character-advancement/#TOC-Advancing-Beyond-20th-Level)?

Are we starting at base 20th, then, on medium? I'm assuming so for now.

Yes on all points.

Sønderjye

2018-07-04, 05:31 PM

Base

Ephermial Recollection sighs, and looks at the horned lady
"

You've obviously got scars... I'd rather not deepen them without pressing need. So...

"
She turns back to Scourge
"

I could walk you through where you're missing what I'm saying... eventually... but that won't greatly improve the situation, and would cause some unneeded pain. So I'm dropping the topic for now.

"

Tollens frowns in annoyance. "That's a weird presumption, what makes you think that my scars are related to this?"

[OOC:The following was in the original post but Jack pointed out that I can use my perform bonus as my sense motive bonus so that's actually on par with my bluff.]
He gave the other manwoman a long look but he still couldn't read anything. It was grating that sense motive was based on wisdom, it meant that while Chase was able to be in complete control of his body language he had virtually no chance, without turning to magic anyway, of reading someone with about his own bonus to bluff. He had no idea of what the guy was feeling or thinking beyond what were being said and hopefully there wasn't some misunderstanding here that would make things complicated.

Ephermial Recollection shrugs
"

Maybe. Maybe not. It's one of those things that needs investigation. Most predators hunt because they're hungry; does a soul without a body hunger? I haven't felt the need to eat since the event, and it's been a few days subjective time. Finding out whether or not a ... let's go with a lion... will continue to hunt post-death seems like it'd be fairly straightforward thing to check, and a relatively reasonable evidence to request before accepting soul destruction as a standard policy. Please, get back to me once you've got that one sorted. In the meantime: I tend to default to trapping things I want gone anyway, and if I do smack something to death, well... I've got Create Spawn, so it's soul usually isn't going anywhere.

"

"Good point, that's a considerations to keep in mind when it happens. I'd guess that the instincts of a lion still sticks around even if it doesn't need to eat food. We'll have to shelf it for now though. For most intents and purposes Create Spawn is identical to mindcontrol and if memory serves there's some alignment changes? If so it's also personality altercation."

Ephermial Recollection shrugs
"

What's too often? Although... with most forms of stasis, it can be undone readily enough by someone on the outside. So if we've got someone in stasis we want to mind-control, it's only a mild hassle to switch. And vice-versa, I suppose, which among other things means as long as we do one or the other... and as a result, it barely matters which we start with, as we can easily discuss specific merits for specific cases and switch the specific scenario as needed.

"

"There's no golden number but I'll go ahead and suggest 3 as a baseline. Though that would be adjusted downwards if the damage done was high or if we evaluate that we can't take proper countermeasures to whatever allowed the imprisoned to escape. Good point about the ability to switch. Perhaps we should shelf that discussion for when it's relevant."

The horse/mouse in the bag seems unharmed by the short period of storage.

ER shrugs
"

You're a pretty good gauge of your copies. Would one of the ones that doesn't suffocate be willing to do that ride-along? I saw you work with that Djorie of Psychic Reformation, so I'm quite sure one of them can get Plane Shift, no problems. It's just a matter of getting a willing person to go with. I suppose I could do it myself...

"
she considers for a bit, trailing off and a little lost in thought.

Chase looks up from the mouse satisfied. At least there were no obvious dangers with being shoved into a haversack.

"For a trip to hell? More than one of them would, fortunately it's me who's here and I'm more than in!", She says with an excited grin.

"By preference a good stagnant pool of swamp water would be pleasant, fetid and ripe filth. But we're not picky. Whatever you're thinking, think
more
".

Scourge nods briefly which causes her silvery hair to dance on top of her head. She then points a finger towards the demon and a steady stream of stall rotten swamp water with mixed what once was plants and animal excrements starts pouring down the demon from just over it's head. Scourge is happy that he can choose not to breathe.

"Ocborth, as much as the plane has one. He does as he wishes and cannot be stopped, what else would he be".

"Tell me about Osborth. What do you mean with that he cannot be stopped?"

"Did any demons exist before the gods existed? Or have any demons existed before the death of a god? If not give me some names of some of the oldest demons around."

Necropolis

"Ah, I see. If beings with souls existed at another plane and they died. Would their souls nessesarily go to the Battlefield or could they end up another place, assuming no dietic intervention. Also, what is some troubles that you have with helping souls?", the scout asks.

Battle Royale

After spending far too long digging through snow Scourge grunts and calls it a day. That was a clear point against simulation, in particular a game simulation, which meant that he would have to expect more realistic feedback from the game. It was disappointing in a sense. He needed raw materials for crafting and there was something exhilarating about having to fight for loot rather than mining it out or getting it as taxation. Suppose trade was also an option given that they had both magic and crafting skills to sell.

'Nothing in particular. I just want to know if it destroys anything or anyone.'

War on Gods

'I need the staff of reshuffling. Someone needs to cast it on me. Code Yellow. Can we get Tollens here?', Houston send to the Network.

'Negative. Tollens is talking with a player. Someone will be there asap,' came the responds.

'Then give me a trio of linked. I need it cast on me without anybody noticing', he send back

Good. Not ideal but manageable. Now he just had to fake being able to speak the language until he finally could.

He nods to the giant as a trio of simulacrum invisibly pops into existence beside him and starts casting Psychic Reformation to reshuffle his lingiustic ranks such that he now could speak the giant sign language.

Using Shades(Major Creation) for creating the swarm water. Presumably there's a DC for creating a complex object but I got a lot of ranks in craft.

The trio of simulacrum is 'bonded' the same way as they use to let multiple people be affected by time stop. They are all hiding with a +25 stealth, two are rotating casting greater invisibility and one is doing the psychic reformation cast from the staff. The casting time is 10 minutes.

Jack_Simth

2018-07-05, 07:05 AM

Base

Tollens frowns in annoyance. "That's a weird presumption, what makes you think that my scars are related to this?"

He gave the other manwoman a long look but he still couldn't read anything. It was grating that sense motive was based on wisdom, it meant that while Chase was able to be in complete control of his body language he had virtually no chance, without turning to magic anyway, of reading someone with about his own bonus to bluff. He had no idea of what the guy was feeling or thinking beyond what were being said and hopefully there wasn't some misunderstanding here that would make things complicated.
The Jack in the ghost states "There's three people here. I wasn't talking about your scars, nor mine, with that one."

"Good point, that's a considerations to keep in mind when it happens. I'd guess that the instincts of a lion still sticks around even if it doesn't need to eat food. We'll have to shelf it for now though. For most intents and purposes Create Spawn is identical to mindcontrol and if memory serves there's some alignment changes? If so it's also personality altercation."He shrugs "With most spawn, yes, the undead so created has an "Always X" alignment entry - usually evil - and so the alignment changes to match. Mine is "any", so not so much. It's both a blessing and a curse... but yeah, they end up utterly loyal to me... in theory, at least. I haven't actually killed anything since the event. It can also be undone, assuming the Resurrection spell and it's bigger brother works, and that severing a spawn from the undead state also severs it from control. For obvious reasons, testing that will need to wait until it's a good idea to kill someone."

Chase looks up from the mouse satisfied. At least there were no obvious dangers with being shoved into a haversack.

"For a trip to hell? More than one of them would, fortunately it's me who's here and I'm more than in!", She says with an excited grin.
He nods "OK then. Send me directions when you get there, please. If I'm the one running the dismissal, I obviously can't be in whatever extradimensional storage container Jenna has."

Scourge nods briefly which causes her silvery hair to dance on top of her head. She then points a finger towards the demon and a steady stream of stall rotten swamp water with mixed what once was plants and animal excrements starts pouring down the demon from just over it's head. Scourge is happy that he can choose not to breathe.
Accustomed to dirty diapers, Jack manages not to retch easily enough, and asks Scourge "Will you please give me a bit of a heads-up on that next time? I've got scent as a class feature."

Sønderjye

2018-07-05, 12:18 PM

He shrugs
"

With most spawn, yes, the undead so created has an "Always X" alignment entry - usually evil - and so the alignment changes to match. Mine is "any", so not so much. It's both a blessing and a curse... but yeah, they end up utterly loyal to me... in theory, at least. I haven't actually killed anything since the event. It can also be undone, assuming the Resurrection spell and it's bigger brother works, and that severing a spawn from the undead state also severs it from control. For obvious reasons, testing that will need to wait until it's a good idea to kill someone.

"

"I'll flag that under mindcontrol rather than mind alteration due to reversable nature and controlling aspect."

He nods
"

OK then. Send me directions when you get there, please. If I'm the one running the dismissal, I obviously can't be in whatever extradimensional storage container Jenna has.

"

"Now we have a name we could also plane shift there?"

Accustomed to dirty diapers, Jack manages not to retch easily enough, and asks Scourge
"

Will you please give me a bit of a heads-up on that next time? I've got scent as a class feature.

"

"Uff", Tollens says with a big smile and then promptly looks apolegetic: "That sounds pretty bad. Can you choose not to?"

Jack_Simth

2018-07-05, 10:04 PM

"I'll flag that under mindcontrol rather than mind alteration due to reversable nature and controlling aspect."
The corrupted nature spirit shrugs "A suitable enough category."

"Now we have a name we could also plane shift there?"
She pauses "Assuming it's a 'normal' Plane Shift focus... or you want to play with Gate... sure."

"Uff", Tollens says with a big smile and then promptly looks apolegetic: "That sounds pretty bad. Can you choose not to?"
She considers, then attempts responding telepathically When talking to you, no. You've made it clear enough that you're basically a lich, and I can talk this way to any undead. I'd rather not leave Jenna out of the conversation - that's just plain rude. I don't really have other questions for the summon... are you ready to dismiss it and hopefully the stench with it?
Undead Telepathy. Just like normal telepathy, but only works with undead (as a bonus, though, does not require the subject have a language, and includes mindless undead). 100 foot range.

ThreadNecro5

2018-07-06, 04:20 PM

Scourge nods briefly which causes her silvery hair to dance on top of her head. She then points a finger towards the demon and a steady stream of stall rotten swamp water with mixed what once was plants and animal excrements starts pouring down the demon from just over it's head. Scourge is happy that he can choose not to breathe.

"Tell me about Osborth. What do you mean with that he cannot be stopped?"[/QUOTE]

The demon, having sat to soak in the filth that its own secretions drive ever more unspeakable "He's god of debauchery and revelry, who stop him doing what he wants"?

"Did any demons exist before the gods existed? Or have any demons existed before the death of a god?
"If anyone knows how long we have existed I don't know them. And I don't know anything about no dead gods, one who never made themselves known maybe".

If not give me some names of some of the oldest demons around."
"I'm no scholar and it's not like we have been counting of our history but the gluten's old. Enough his name's been forgotten. So is the babau Sherteter but she left to study combat through the planes. Trying to become the perfect duellist or so the story goes. There's also the herald. I don't know much but it was a creature of elemental air sent to oversee the winds of Cruzekla but spent so long in the bloodstorm it went native and become bonded to the mind of Ocborth.

Necropolis
"Ah, I see. If beings with souls existed at another plane and they died. Would their souls nessesarily go to the Battlefield or could they end up another place, assuming no dietic intervention. Also, what is some troubles that you have with helping souls?", the scout asks.

"They would still follow the regular path in most cases, the Battlefield and it's god having a natural influence over souls that draws them here. Although there are rare cases where the soul takes longer in its travels and drifts away to a different plane, I have seen it four times this last thousand years. True also is that souls from outside the hybrid plane are more likely to return to it without becoming some manner of planar being in the process, typically those whose nature would see then brought to that plane but it's ruling deity for whatever reason failed to take notice".

"And as to souls I help, my purpose is to act as an adjunct to the great thinkers and those who die leaving a great undertaking incomplete. So the most common issues in supply and communication. Like arranging The very specific materials a master painter needs, like fresh berries of a plant only found in one valley. In that case we also found one day that the painting itself ran away".

Battle Royale
'Nothing in particular. I just want to know if it destroys anything or anyone.'
"Well right now it's in mid air so nothing seems in danger right now. If it changes course of action We'll keep you updated".

War on Gods
'I need the staff of reshuffling. Someone needs to cast it on me. Code Yellow. Can we get Tollens here?', Houston send to the Network.

'Negative. Tollens is talking with a player. Someone will be there asap,' came the responds.

'Then give me a trio of linked. I need it cast on me without anybody noticing', he send back

Good. Not ideal but manageable. Now he just had to fake being able to speak the language until he finally could.

He nods to the giant as a trio of simulacrum invisibly pops into existence beside him and starts casting Psychic Reformation to reshuffle his lingiustic ranks such that he now could speak the giant sign language.

Using Shades(Major Creation) for creating the swarm water. Presumably there's a DC for creating a complex object but I got a lot of ranks in craft.

The trio of simulacrum is 'bonded' the same way as they use to let multiple people be affected by time stop. They are all hiding with a +25 stealth, two are rotating casting greater invisibility and one is doing the psychic reformation cast from the staff. The casting time is 10 minutes.

Strangely the giant's signs actually require more than two arms you find as your newfound understanding locks in place, up to six in some cases. Nor does the language have terms to designate specific individuals.

Unfortunately the giant decides to just leave while the power was being used.

'It does not listen.' you realise it last signed before leaving.

Feel free with 'interrupting' the events here with taking action to somehow stop the giant leaving.

A Scout Found Something

A scout deep into a swamp catches sight of something big, insectoid, emerald shelled and covered in flora. Trying to get a better look the creature it flees for a distance before seemingly fading into the surrounding plants. Just beyond this area is a clearing in the mangrove. A circular clearing about fifty foot forming around a menhir covered hill. Surrounding the hill are large, almost bloated, trees that on closer inspection how humanoid features. Atop the hill stands another tree, this one the biggest and also warped, hollow, and seemingly burst open.

[spoiler=OOC]Take a Perception check for the scout./spoiler[

Jack_Simth

2018-07-09, 09:00 PM

The man in a woman's ... well, not quite 'body' ... shrugs "So... I guess we're taking a trip to the lower planes, then. Possibly useful spells... I've got the Plane Shift, to get us there, as well as Magic Circle Against Chaos and Law, Misdirection, Nine Lives, Polymorph Any Object, Mass Invisibility, Daywalker, Illusory Vestment, Illusory Edge, Greater Magic Weapon, Magic Vestments, Moment of Prescience, Foresight, Mind Blank, and of course most of the Shadow line of spells, so if you want a Heroism or something I can probably fake it. Who wants what?"

A moment later, he adds "I should also probably Inspire someone... gives a bonus to Will saves, Craft, and Perform, plus extra Bardic Music rounds... but more importantly adds a supernatural Status effect, and I can do some healing and status-fixes."

With the undead in the group, there's a stacking question:
Namely, does the undead Charisma in place of Con for things stack with other Charisma-to-X things that crop up? Most notably in the Nymphs Grace (Charisma to all saves, when I already have Charisma to Fort because it's replacing Con)?

I wrote my character up assuming non-stacking, because I thought that was default Pathfinder... but the only thing I can find on the matter is a FAQ entry (http://paizo.com/paizo/faq/v5748nruor1fm#v5748eaic9sgk) and a few incidental mentions (such as in the Divine Protection (https://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/general-feats/divine-protection/) feat).

So I suppose it boils down to "is the FAQ considered authoritative?" and "Does it stack anyway because it's Charisma instead of Con vs. a Charisma bonus?"

Sønderjye

2018-07-11, 09:52 AM

He's god of debauchery and revelry, who stop him doing what he wants"

"Other gods? Ancient demons? Primordial beings?", Scourge suggests: "Are you saying that he couldn't be stopped by any force or that he's judt the most powerful being in demonland? Also, is he a demon or are gods fundementally different?"

The man in a woman's ... well, not quite 'body' ... shrugs "So... I guess we're taking a trip to the lower planes, then. Possibly useful spells... I've got the Plane Shift, to get us there, as well as Magic Circle Against Chaos and Law, Misdirection, Nine Lives, Polymorph Any Object, Mass Invisibility, Daywalker, Illusory Vestment, Illusory Edge, Greater Magic Weapon, Magic Vestments, Moment of Prescience, Foresight, Mind Blank, and of course most of the Shadow line of spells, so if you want a Heroism or something I can probably fake it. Who wants what?"

"I think it depends on which approach we are taking. A circle would be rather telling and I'm in favour of trying to blend in but protection against evil would be useful if they summoned buddies. Perhaps we should take the form of something that visit Crukla often but doesn't know their way around?"

He then turns to the summoned demon: "Any suggestions?"

"Regardless I similarly have a few potentially spells. Nine Life, Magic Aura, shadow spells, Hermean Potential, Foresight, Acute Senses, Resist Energy."

A moment later, he adds "I should also probably Inspire someone... gives a bonus to Will saves, Craft, and Perform, plus extra Bardic Music rounds... but more importantly adds a supernatural Status effect, and I can do some healing and status-fixes."

"From the nymph class right? I progressed it through to Muse so I can do the same though I can also teleport to you. As a headsup mine also allows me to look through your senses. Not that I will of course and I understand objections towards it but the status would be really helpful for the trip."

Related to Jacks question Muse gives extra hp as if half charisma was added to con and being undead uses cha tfor hp. does this use 1.5 x cha to calculate hp or is the muse ability void?

Jack_Simth

2018-07-14, 05:02 PM

"I think it depends on which approach we are taking. A circle would be rather telling and I'm in favour of trying to blend in but protection against evil would be useful if they summoned buddies. Perhaps we should take the form of something that visit Crukla often but doesn't know their way around?"

Ephermial Recollection chuckles "Magic Circle Against Evil would be telling - it's a [Good] spell ... but Magic Circle Against Law or Magic Circle Against Chaos are a bit less so. Meanwhile, if we have both, they have most of the effects we'd want for several hours."

He then turns to the summoned demon: "Any suggestions?"

"Regardless I similarly have a few potentially spells. Nine Life, Magic Aura, shadow spells, Hermean Potential, Foresight, Acute Senses, Resist Energy."

Ephermial Recollection considers "Hermean Potential and Acute Senses are pretty short duration, aren't they? Minutes only? Most the rest I have... I wasn't really thinking much about messing with our auras, simply because I've already got several wards to make most aura-reading spells go away... but I do have Misdirection if we really want to do that. Resist energy... hmm... eh, what are the odds they'll be zapping me with sound waves? I'm probably good there."

"From the nymph class right? I progressed it through to Muse so I can do the same though I can also teleport to you. As a headsup mine also allows me to look through your senses. Not that I will of course and I understand objections towards it but the status would be really helpful for the trip."

Ephermial Recollection shrugs again "It can be put on hold simply by setting the token down if I want some privacy. Also... it just projects senses, which means it can't compete with something like a Mage's Private Sanctum, as you're still looking from outside. Should be fine."

Sønderjye

2018-07-17, 07:52 PM

"Do you have a preference to whether we go in under cover or try to impress with ourselves?"

"Sure, minutes per level. But at this point that's getting close to half an hour and that's a long time for a plus 30 modifier."

"Let's do a double inspire then." she says as a wave of sound cuts a smamm piece of her hair off and she hands it to Jack along with an inspiration.

TN, does the demon have any suggestions for beings that visit Crukula?
Sorey for the formatting.

Jack_Simth

2018-07-17, 09:31 PM

The Jack in the ghost smiles and fades from view, then mentally replies How about we don't let them know I'm there at all? and takes a lock of hair to hand over to Scourge, which is surprisingly solid. He continues verbally "Do you expect to find everything you need in a few minutes? A few hours for gathering info is probably the minimum - well, unless I just slaughter someone, ask their spirit who's most likely to know the answers to the questions we want and where that person can be found, go there, then rinse and repeat - which means you'll be recasting several times while doing other things, and that tends to draw attention. How many demons or devils do you think we can take on at once, and how many do you think such behavior will attract on their home turf? Sure, the bonus is very useful - but it does come with a cost that's slightly less obvious than the spell slot expenditure. Pick your poison. I'm game either way, but I'm probably slightly better at retreating if it becomes necessary, and am a fan of folks making informed decisions."

At-will Greater Invisibility + a Cast Defensively Concentration check DC I can't fail on a 1 + Mind Blank + Lurker in Darkness = Regardless of what senses you've got, you still need to roll perception. And with the +20 from Invisibility, you're rolling perception vs. [roll0] - which you may be able to make, I don't dig through sheets without an invite.

From an OOC perspective, the direct approach means slightly less waiting on ThreadNecro5 - no need to get an answer on a suitable creature - but then there's also the [fill in suitable creature from Knowledge check / Summon's response here] approach when making the disguise check, which has a similar result.

Side note: My lock of hair is worth 29 extra bardic music rounds. What's yours?

As to needing the DM ruling: The lock of hair is technically part of a summoning subschool class feature, and may or may not vanish when that feature does due to some fuzzy bits in the rules. But I have very little corporeal to hand over.

Specifically the bit of fuzzy rules that lead to the "may or may not" and would need a DM call:
Per The Summoning Subschool (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/Magic/#TOC-Conjuration-Summoning):
Summoning: a summoning spell instantly brings a creature or object to a place you designate. When the spell ends or is dispelled, a summoned creature is instantly sent back to where it came from, but a summoned object is not sent back unless the spell description specifically indicates this. A summoned creature also goes away if it is killed or if its hit points drop to 0 or lower, but it is not really dead. It takes 24 hours for the creature to reform, during which time it can’t be summoned again.(Emphasis added)

On the one hand: a separated bit is an object, not a creature, and is not addressed in the base effect - ergo as the effect does not "specifically indicate" it goes away, it should stay. On the other hand, the effect doesn't summon 'a lock of hair' - it summons a creature - and items that come with a summon are generally assumed to go back with the summon, in which case the hair would vanish too.

It's not a pressing question - even if it does go away, I don't often drop that effect (it's WAY too useful), and it's easy enough to hand over another on the next summoning (which will usually be PDQ, as again - the effect is WAY too useful to not maintain constantly).

ThreadNecro5

2018-07-18, 02:36 PM

With the undead in the group, there's a stacking question:
Namely, does the undead Charisma in place of Con for things stack with other Charisma-to-X things that crop up? Most notably in the Nymphs Grace (Charisma to all saves, when I already have Charisma to Fort because it's replacing Con)?

I wrote my character up assuming non-stacking, because I thought that was default Pathfinder... but the only thing I can find on the matter is a FAQ entry (http://paizo.com/paizo/faq/v5748nruor1fm#v5748eaic9sgk) and a few incidental mentions (such as in the Divine Protection (https://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/general-feats/divine-protection/) feat).

So I suppose it boils down to "is the FAQ considered authoritative?" and "Does it stack anyway because it's Charisma instead of Con vs. a Charisma bonus?"
I would say that the 'may not add the same ability score to something twice' ruling is mostly in place except I feel it overly penalises undead, who have less ability scores to work with in the first place.

So I will say that you may ignore it when the undead type caused the effects of an ability score to be redirected to another (mostly from Con-Cha effects). In effect treat these things as if you still had a Con and it was equal to your charisma. This does not allow you to stack the same 'Con to X' ability however. As I'm probably unclear here or explaining it badly you can list specific instances of this rules conflict and I'll explain.

Related to Jacks question Muse gives extra hp as if half charisma was added to con and being undead uses cha tfor hp. does this use 1.5 x cha to calculate hp or is the muse ability void?
Use 1.5x.

As to needing the DM ruling: The lock of hair is technically part of a summoning subschool class feature, and may or may not vanish when that feature does due to some fuzzy bits in the rules. But I have very little corporeal to hand over.

Specifically the bit of fuzzy rules that lead to the "may or may not" and would need a DM call:
Per The Summoning Subschool (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/Magic/#TOC-Conjuration-Summoning):(Emphasis added)

On the one hand: a separated bit is an object, not a creature, and is not addressed in the base effect - ergo as the effect does not "specifically indicate" it goes away, it should stay. On the other hand, the effect doesn't summon 'a lock of hair' - it summons a creature - and items that come with a summon are generally assumed to go back with the summon, in which case the hair would vanish too.

It's not a pressing question - even if it does go away, I don't often drop that effect (it's WAY too useful), and it's easy enough to hand over another on the next summoning (which will usually be PDQ, as again - the effect is WAY too useful to not maintain constantly).
I'd say it would disappear with the rest.

"Other gods? Ancient demons? Primordial beings?", Scourge suggests: "Are you saying that he couldn't be stopped by any force or that he's judt the most powerful being in demonland? Also, is he a demon or are gods fundementally different?"
The demon shrugs. "I suppose you're right".

"Gods are something different, I think. Some do look like a race or creature but that is probably more them creating in their own image I guess. Well unless that deity was something before being one I suppose".

He then turns to the summoned demon: "Any suggestions?"
"No." it replies noncommittedly. "Do whatever, everyone else will be".

Sønderjye

2018-07-19, 04:52 AM

Jack_Simth

2018-07-19, 07:27 AM

"Stealth then? That's fine by me." A black portal forms by her side and a staff emerges. She grabs it and Jack's spell knowledge allows him to decipher that Tollens casts Glimpse of the Akashi, and
Impenetrable Veil
from the staff before she vanishes from sight.

"You got spellbanes running? We might want to ensure that we don't have overlap."

The corrupted nature spirit shakes her head, then remembers almost nobody can tell "I don't have it prepared at the moment, no, although I do have the focus. It's a good one to have... I'm not particularly subject to dispelling, but anti-magic fields are extra annoying for me. I'll need to think about what to shuffle out to make room. That's for tomorrow, though."

After that have been resolved she moves closer to Jack's position until they touch so they can go for a stroll in hell.

The corrupted nature spirit nods, and casts Plane Shift to take herself, Scourge, and anyone else who wants to come along to Cruzekla.

How in Earth did you get 68 charisma? I have 60 and muse gets 4 more charisma than Nymph. So that's a +25 bardic performance.
Doesn't Nightmare Creature's Automatically Disbelieve invisibility, with it being an illusion effect? If not Scourge will try to 'broadcast' her telepathy to everything within the exact location that 'Status' is telling her that Jack is, testing to see if they can talk like that. Perception is 58(taking 10) so I wouldn't be able to spot Jack even on a 20.
Stealth is 76(taking 10)

Charisma: Shouldn't that be how in Genesis? 18 base on point buy, +14 Nymph, +8 Dread Ghost, +4 Undead Lord, +5 Level up, +5 Inherent, +6 Enhancement, +8 from four instances of the "Ability Increase" evolution on a Synthesist Summoner (as a synthesist, I get all the evolutions of my Eidolon while it's worn). 18+14+8+4+5+5+6+8=68. There's a reason Synthesist Summoner is banned in society play, that's part of it.

Nightmare Creature vs. Illusion: You automatically disbelieve illusions. Greater Invisibility isn't a disbelief effect; it doesn't care whether you believe in it or not. That's part of why you also get the +4 saves vs. Illusions; if I use Shadow Evocation to duplicate Fireball, you'd automatically recognize it as a shadow spell, and get a +4 bonus on the reflex save vs. the remaining damage - you're not completely immune to illusions, just very highly resistant. So you'll still want See Invisibility or True Seeing for general use (or both - See Invisibility has unlimited range, True Seeing permits you to recognize transmutations, so having both is better than having either alone) if you don't have them, and probably Silent Spell (or the rod (https://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic-items/rods/metamagic-rods/metamagic-silent/)) so you've got something to do in an area of Silence (also an illusion, but again: It doesn't care if you believe in it or not).

Also of note at the moment: My current disguise is not an illusion. I've assumed take ten for my character sheet, but I've got a technically completely mundane disguise check to look like a normal nymph of 87. Quirk of synthesis summoner means my equipment is under my eidolon, so if I disguise up after summoning it (and I always keep it summoned, so that's a simple matter) folks can't see my equipment (most of which is ghostly, so can't be stolen or sundered), either. Well, up until I put something on top, like a normal set of clothes.

And... I can't see you, either - at least, not without expending a Moment of Prescience or something. Yay! At least we know where each other are thanks to Status.

Noted the Inspiration on my sheet.

ThreadNecro5

2018-07-20, 03:39 PM

The corrupted nature spirit nods, and casts Plane Shift to take herself, Scourge, and anyone else who wants to come along to Cruzekla.

"I'll wait it out." says the summoned demon with a wave of the hand "Probably get home fa-"

I think it was about due for the spell to end anyway.

Once you find yourself in Cruzekla the first thing that is noticed is the rain, red, coppery, and warm warm enough to be mistaken for freshly spilled. The clouds in the sky churn like a natural disaster and in all directions humanoid bodies fall alongside the rain.

As to the region you are in it is a circle of stands, made of gold, platinum, gemstones, and marble. It is the finest make and extends as far as you can see. Beyond flights of seating that extends infinitely up and down is what they encircle. A gladiatorial arena formed of ever shifting environments lays in front of each set of stands, the fighters within eternally being forced to move around them. Great crystal disks fly about showing current highlights because sight alone is not enough.

Beside each seat is a crystal ball and once you both lay your eyes on one it immediately informs you of it's functions, information beaming itself into your minds. Each creates a scrying sensor that may fly through the arena to let the 'patrons' watch the fights at their leisure as well as order from the chefs or make bets on the fighters. Beside you a Kyton crunches teeth like they're boiled sweets.

It is another moment of observations until the 'evil made manifest' of this place makes itself apparent. From what is seen on the 'highlight reel' the dead are dragged out by fiends who seem to work here, some tossed into the stands to be tore apart and consumed, some butchered by the workers and delivered to choice individuals, and some taken away for unknown reasons. Melees happen all over the stands as some groups of spectators fight and die while others fight heir way forward to leap in to the arena by choice or get tossed in by others. Most of the spectators are demons while an even amount of what's left seem to be the souls of the local dead, which seem to be idealised versions of their mortal forms each bearing a single massive bleeding wound. The remaining twenty percent or so are a mixture of almost any miscellaneous creatures.

As your observation continues you see that the deluge is soaked up by the environment so that while ever-present it is never overwhelming to the landscape. The entire colosseum is big enough that it may well be the size of a mortal nation or beyond and just as it seems ever bigger every turn of the head unleashes some new evil upon the senses as it can be seen fiends teleporting in dragging living mortals or angels with their wings clipped and sending them into the fights to join the willing fighters and rain-scent souls that happened to land inside. Part colosseum, gambling den, and cannibalistic feast hall, this could be a realm of evil in and of itself. Despite this this seems to be just one building and the beginning.

Jack_Simth

2018-07-22, 07:25 PM

On seeing the carnage, the man in a woman's ... well, not quite 'body' ... quietly renews his invisibility, goes a little pale, and telepathically relays to Scourge Well... given the activities of the area, I've got no problems with killing our way to the information we want at this point. Hmm. Lots of cash on display here. I wonder how much of it is real? Think they've got countermeasures for someone stealing chunks of the stadium? I imagine your sims would love to take a few dozen of those orbs apart for crafting. Then again, you'd probably be ruining someone's fun, if nothing else... Hmm. There's going to be some less public nooks & crannies...

He looks around a bit to see if he can spot the equivalent of a maintenance tunnel or similar.
Perception: [roll0]. Note that I can see through some barriers, so this should be a little easier than normal.

ThreadNecro5

2018-07-23, 03:06 PM

A player from another group brought up a point that given the origin of the characters, spellbook users would reasonably have most if not all available spells in their books/equivalent. What are the thoughts on this here?

On seeing the carnage, the man in a woman's ... well, not quite 'body' ... quietly renews his invisibility, goes a little pale, and telepathically relays to Scourge Well... given the activities of the area, I've got no problems with killing our way to the information we want at this point. Hmm. Lots of cash on display here. I wonder how much of it is real? Think they've got countermeasures for someone stealing chunks of the stadium? I imagine your sims would love to take a few dozen of those orbs apart for crafting. Then again, you'd probably be ruining someone's fun, if nothing else... Hmm. There's going to be some less public nooks & crannies...

He looks around a bit to see if he can spot the equivalent of a maintenance tunnel or similar.
Perception: [roll0]. Note that I can see through some barriers, so this should be a little easier than normal.
It takes a minute of looking to spot the maintenance tunnels. The fact most employees teleport and or fly suggests many can avoid the need for one and as far as you can spot that is how many get around. After managing to stare past the intervening bodies, incorporeal forms, and other types of bodily material, you can see that a ramp leads down to a small tunnel that leads closer to the arena. The tunnels are periodically spaced around the stands and are more being used as ways out than in, the light capable demons favouring that to leave.

In each set of stands there is a way in and out the exits out to a gilded corridor.

For those using Arcane sight they would see the crystal balls and the disks a having moderate auras of divination.

Jack_Simth

2018-07-23, 09:43 PM

They can move themselves and up to 50 pounds of equipment trivially. The racial teleport doesn't do other creatures. OK, the dead souls falling out of the sky due to the nature of the plane may just land there... but you mentioned clipped wing angel prisoners and the occasional live mortal. How are they getting shuffled around? Likewise, when they've got something that exceeds the racial teleport weight limit, they'll need a way to handle that, too. Could just be portable holes or some such, but those would be extra easy for a chaotic type to walk off the job with, so it seems an unlikely solution due to the expected theft rate.

As to the specific question: There's a standard cost for access to new spells - whether that's copying fees or scrolls - and a standard scribing cost (whether that's inks and paper or Blessed Books). There are a lot of spells in Pathfinder. The Wizard spell filter (http://www.d20pfsrdcompanion.com/spells/wizard-spells) lists: 122 cantrips, 275 1st level spells, 356 2nd level spells, 337 3rd level spells, 229 4th level spells, 185 5th level spells, 138 6th level spells, 113 7th level spells, 72 8th level spells, and 73 9th level spells (includes some 3rd party, but last updated Jan 2017, so it'll be missing a lot of first party; for the moment, I'm assuming those two are a wash - this is just an estimate, so that's OK). Assuming Blessed Books (https://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic-items/wondrous-items/wondrous-items/a-b/book-blessed/), and the "In most cases, wizards charge a fee for the privilege of copying spells from their spellbooks. This fee is usually equal to half the cost to write the spell into a spellbook" clause found in The Magic Section (https://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic/#TOC-Adding-Spells-to-a-Wizard-s-Spellbo), that's 6,813 pages (7 Blessed Books, assuming no safety duplicates) at 6,250 gp each (I'm assuming they craft the books, rather than buying them - but that does require a feat investment... although it is one of the best feats in the game regardless) and 170,540 gp in copying fees, for a total of 214,290 gp (before the discount for the free level-up spells, anyway, but that's basically just four spells per spell level, a bit more for first and 9th - ballpark 5% of the 170,540 gp portion).

Would a lot of folks have spent the time, money, and/or other resources to do that? Sure. But that's resources they're not spending on other things (like that +6 Headband of Mental Superiority or that +5 Tome of Clear Thought). It's part of wealth any way you slice it. It was most likely brought up by someone who doesn't want to handle the bookkeeping of "what spells do I know?" (partly because of sheet size restrictions), or someone who's wanting to finagle a very expensive character resource for free. A Wizard saying "Of course I would have traded with other wizards to get all the spells" is exactly as true as an Oracle saying "Of course I would have gotten a bunch of pages of spell knowledge to cherry pick things I can't fit on my spells known list, paid for by [X]" (whether that's "blood money for fabricate for gold" or "using my discounted crafting to make money as a merchant" or any other method) and should probably be handled about the same way: as part of game-start WBL.

Giving Sønderjye and Eldest a bit of time to post before continuing IC.

ThreadNecro5

2018-07-25, 12:35 PM

They can move themselves and up to 50 pounds of equipment trivially. The racial teleport doesn't do other creatures. OK, the dead souls falling out of the sky due to the nature of the plane may just land there... but you mentioned clipped wing angel prisoners and the occasional live mortal. How are they getting shuffled around? Likewise, when they've got something that exceeds the racial teleport weight limit, they'll need a way to handle that, too. Could just be portable holes or some such, but those would be extra easy for a chaotic type to walk off the job with, so it seems an unlikely solution due to the expected theft rate.

True, non flyers would need something to offer assistance in getting out (while it is far enough to not be noted by player character yet they couldn't just teleport out). My original thoughts were that the management would consider 'employees' getting stuck in the arena a feature and not a bug but they'd also want something to more reliably get bodies out and if I add something that would double as an escape route to let those inside escape and run amuck, well again feature not a bug. I'll edit my post.

As to the angels and other assorted beings they were essentially getting chucked in.

As to the specific question: There's a standard cost for access to new spells - whether that's copying fees or scrolls - and a standard scribing cost (whether that's inks and paper or Blessed Books). There are a lot of spells in Pathfinder. The Wizard spell filter (http://www.d20pfsrdcompanion.com/spells/wizard-spells) lists: 122 cantrips, 275 1st level spells, 356 2nd level spells, 337 3rd level spells, 229 4th level spells, 185 5th level spells, 138 6th level spells, 113 7th level spells, 72 8th level spells, and 73 9th level spells (includes some 3rd party, but last updated Jan 2017, so it'll be missing a lot of first party; for the moment, I'm assuming those two are a wash - this is just an estimate, so that's OK). Assuming Blessed Books (https://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic-items/wondrous-items/wondrous-items/a-b/book-blessed/), and the "In most cases, wizards charge a fee for the privilege of copying spells from their spellbooks. This fee is usually equal to half the cost to write the spell into a spellbook" clause found in The Magic Section (https://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic/#TOC-Adding-Spells-to-a-Wizard-s-Spellbo), that's 6,813 pages (7 Blessed Books, assuming no safety duplicates) at 6,250 gp each (I'm assuming they craft the books, rather than buying them - but that does require a feat investment... although it is one of the best feats in the game regardless) and 170,540 gp in copying fees, for a total of 214,290 gp (before the discount for the free level-up spells, anyway, but that's basically just four spells per spell level, a bit more for first and 9th - ballpark 5% of the 170,540 gp portion).

Would a lot of folks have spent the time, money, and/or other resources to do that? Sure. But that's resources they're not spending on other things (like that +6 Headband of Mental Superiority or that +5 Tome of Clear Thought). It's part of wealth any way you slice it. It was most likely brought up by someone who doesn't want to handle the bookkeeping of "what spells do I know?" (partly because of sheet size restrictions), or someone who's wanting to finagle a very expensive character resource for free. A Wizard saying "Of course I would have traded with other wizards to get all the spells" is exactly as true as an Oracle saying "Of course I would have gotten a bunch of pages of spell knowledge to cherry pick things I can't fit on my spells known list, paid for by [X]" (whether that's "blood money for fabricate for gold" or "using my discounted crafting to make money as a merchant" or any other method) and should probably be handled about the same way: as part of game-start WBL.

Giving Sønderjye and Eldest a bit of time to post before continuing IC.

One of my thoughts were that this was something starting GP should have been used towards. Also I crunched the numbers and a 20th level wizard at lead would need a second book for spells gained by levelling alone, and that's before I count all cantrips their first one gets by default. I'll have to ask if spellbook users even remembered to buy a second.

Jack_Simth

2018-07-27, 10:51 PM

Well, has been a week OOC since the entry to the underworld, so moving on...
Ephermial Recollection renews her invisibility as she looks around, considers, and telepathically relays to Scourge I'm going to try a maintenance tunnel... see if I can find a suitable demon or devil to quietly interrogate away from witnesses. Would you like to come? The standard Lich's Paralyzing Touch would be very useful for this. You stop them, I CdG them, we wait a few minutes, and the resulting "Casper" answers all our questions. If you'd rather not, that's fine... just means I may need to actually expend a spell slot.

With that, she stealthily heads down one a maintenance tunnel, keeping an eye out for magic and traps, and looking for a suitable lone demon or devil to ambush.

Stealth (includes Invisibility bonus): [roll0], and note that Lurker In Darkness means even things with extraordinary senses still need to roll. Mind Blank prevents True Seeing and See Invisibility from working.
Perception to find a suitable creature (if needed), and make sure we're otherwise alone: [roll1]
Kn(The Planes) (via Pageant of the Peacock): [roll2]: to make sure:
1) Whatever I pick has an Int/Cha of at least ten each (AKA, is suitable for becoming a Dread Ghost)
2) Is not immune to planned tactics (see below)
3) ID what bypasses it's DR/regeneration, if any.

Spellcraft (also via Pagent of the Peacock) to ID any magical auras before I encounter them: [roll3]
Perception to find any traps in my way: [roll4]

If Scourge comes along, great! That at-will Lich's paralyzing touch sets up for a wonderfully effective Coup De Grace with a Conductive claw, channeling Corrupting Touch. If not... well, I'll start with Dominate Monster (Will DC 45, SR penetration: [roll5]) - the real spell via Summoner, not an illusion of the spell - and go from there.

ThreadNecro5

2018-07-30, 02:03 PM

Well, has been a week OOC since the entry to the underworld, so moving on...

I assume Sønderjye is receiving some form of technical difficulties as I have had no word. Scourge will be PC'd for now to keep things moving.

Ephermial Recollection renews her invisibility as she looks around, considers, and telepathically relays to Scourge I'm going to try a maintenance tunnel... see if I can find a suitable demon or devil to quietly interrogate away from witnesses. Would you like to come? The standard Lich's Paralyzing Touch would be very useful for this. You stop them, I CdG them, we wait a few minutes, and the resulting "Casper" answers all our questions. If you'd rather not, that's fine... just means I may need to actually expend a spell slot.

With that, she stealthily heads down one a maintenance tunnel, keeping an eye out for magic and traps, and looking for a suitable lone demon or devil to ambush.

Stealth (includes Invisibility bonus): [roll0], and note that Lurker In Darkness means even things with extraordinary senses still need to roll. Mind Blank prevents True Seeing and See Invisibility from working.
Perception to find a suitable creature (if needed), and make sure we're otherwise alone: [roll1]
Kn(The Planes) (via Pageant of the Peacock): [roll2]: to make sure:
1) Whatever I pick has an Int/Cha of at least ten each (AKA, is suitable for becoming a Dread Ghost)
2) Is not immune to planned tactics (see below)
3) ID what bypasses it's DR/regeneration, if any.

Spellcraft (also via Pagent of the Peacock) to ID any magical auras before I encounter them: [roll3]
Perception to find any traps in my way: [roll4]

If Scourge comes along, great! That at-will Lich's paralyzing touch sets up for a wonderfully effective Coup De Grace with a Conductive claw, channeling Corrupting Touch. If not... well, I'll start with Dominate Monster (Will DC 45, SR penetration: [roll5]) - the real spell via Summoner, not an illusion of the spell - and go from there.

"There's a lot of moral considerations that raises but looking at things here I don't see us using it to cause more harm than it will on it's own." you hear over telepathy.

You find the tunnel is as well made as the stands and ends in a gate that opens inward to the arena, seemingly of gold but scratches reveal dull silver metal beneath.

After a bit of waiting a suitable demon comes along. Similar to a goblin in size and proportion, it is grey skinned and has empty sockets rather than eyes. About the swaithe is clothed in dirty cloth and has a wooded rig on it's back being used to leach and drag fiendish corpse, probably a Babau. It is alone and you both are unseen.

The demon is a swaithe, weak and without any means of accelerated healing and only five points of damage resistance. Their distinctive traits are their immunity to attacks that effect or work through their sight and a moderate selection of minor spell-likes and witch Hexes. Nothing that will allow it to escape or oppose you.

"Will this one do?" asks Scourge

Scourge lays a hand on the find and it locks up, the weight of the corpse on it's back making it drop to an awkward sitting position.

Jack_Simth

2018-07-30, 05:53 PM

I assume Sønderjye is receiving some form of technical difficulties as I have had no word. Scourge will be PC'd for now to keep things moving.
Sønderjye posted on Discord just this morning:
"I'm close to the end of my summer travels and expect posting frequency to return to normal from tomorrow."

"There's a lot of moral considerations that raises but looking at things here I don't see us using it to cause more harm than it will on it's own." you hear over telepathy.

You find the tunnel is as well made as the stands and ends in a gate that opens inward to the arena, seemingly of gold but scratches reveal dull silver metal beneath.

After a bit of waiting a suitable demon comes along. Similar to a goblin in size and proportion, it is grey skinned and has empty sockets rather than eyes. About the swaithe is clothed in dirty cloth and has a wooded rig on it's back being used to leach and drag fiendish corpse, probably a Babau. It is alone and you both are unseen.

The demon is a swaithe, weak and without any means of accelerated healing and only five points of damage resistance. Their distinctive traits are their immunity to attacks that effect or work through their sight and a moderate selection of minor spell-likes and witch Hexes. Nothing that will allow it to escape or oppose you.

"Will this one do?" asks Scourge

Scourge lays a hand on the find and it locks up, the weight of the corpse on it's back making it drop to an awkward sitting position.

The Jack in the ghost renews his invisibility, nods, and replies back telepathically Makes a perfectly good starting point for interrogation.... and promptly CdG's the helpless demon, followed immediately by using a silent Stone Shape to bury both bodies in the floor.

He then says to Scourge, still telepathically And now we wait a few minutes.... as he readies himself to start giving the spawn orders to hide within the stone for now the instant it rises.

As to the CdG: Auto hit, auto crit. So that's....
Claw for [roll0] and it's also Conductive, so adding Corrupting Touch into the mix, for an extra [roll1] (it has an attack roll, so can crit too). Assuming the damage doesn't kill it outright, that's Fort a save DC of "you'll need a 20"

As to Stone Shape for burying: Might need two castings, but it's just 3rd level slots. Open up the ground under them, close it up over them and smooth things out so it doesn't seem disturbed.

Sønderjye

2018-07-31, 10:08 AM

I were travelling for the last month. I appreciate the intend on moving the game forward though.

The clouds in the sky churn like a natural disaster and in all directions humanoid bodies fall alongside the rain.

This was bizarre. For all that Chase had gauged about this world, dead souls went to the Battlefield. Why were there so many humanoids here?

Beside each seat is a crystal ball and once you both lay your eyes on one it immediately informs you of it's functions, information beaming itself into your minds. Each creates a scrying sensor that may fly through the arena to let the 'patrons' watch the fights at their leisure as well as order from the chefs or make bets on the fighters. Beside you a Kyton crunches teeth like they're boiled sweets.

Scourge reeled back from the ball when information unwelcomely appeared in his mind. She brought her staff up to a fighting stance but relaxed momentarily afterwards as nothing seemed to happen. That was... disturbing. The thing had effortlessly not only managed to detect her through a high level of stealth magic but pierced through her mind blank as a knife through hot butter. She leaned in closer to get a better look and study it.

It is another moment of observations until the 'evil made manifest' of this place makes itself apparent. From what is seen on the 'highlight reel' the dead are dragged out by fiends who seem to work here, some tossed into the stands to be tore apart and consumed, some butchered by the workers and delivered to choice individuals, and some taken away for unknown reasons. Melees happen all over the stands as some groups of spectators fight and die while others fight heir way forward to leap in to the arena by choice or get tossed in by others. Most of the spectators are demons while an even amount of what's left seem to be the souls of the local dead, which seem to be idealised versions of their mortal forms each bearing a single massive bleeding wound. The remaining twenty percent or so are a mixture of almost any miscellaneous creatures.

This too was strange. The gravedigger had specifically only warned against the Foundry as the plane from which souls were prevented from leaving from. And for some reason it seemed likely that these souls couldn't waltz away at their whimp. She sighed. Oh well, guess we'll have to wage war on two planes now.

Once they have killed the demon she says telepathically: "We should probably do a little more research before we start murdering demons indiscriminately around here but from what I've seen this far, this place can crash and burn for all I care. The only consideration is not to draw attention to ourselves that we can't handle.''

Spellcraft to understand how the ball works, how it managed to detect her while she was stealthed and magically consealed, and how it managed to manipulate her knowledge through a mind blank. [roll0]. If that isn't enough she'll use Moment of Prescience to add another +25 bonus.

On spellbooks: I don't really have a strong oppinion.

Jack_Simth

2018-07-31, 09:05 PM

I were travelling for the last month. I appreciate the intend on moving the game forward though.
Once they have killed the demon she says telepathically: "We should probably do a little more research before we start murdering demons indiscriminately around here but from what I've seen this far, this place can crash and burn for all I care. The only consideration is not to draw attention to ourselves that we can't handle.''

The corrupted nature spirit renews her invisibility and maintains readiness to direct her spawn as she telepathically explains I'm being as random as a square root algorithm. That is, the starting point is utterly arbitrary, but the method gets there pretty quickly regardless. I compel this spawn to honesty, and we ask it the questions we want to know. If it knows the answers: Well. If not, we ask it who - in it's best judgment - is most likely to know, and where that demon or devil can be found. We then go do the same to that entity. Each iteration, we'll get a more knowledgeable sort. Eventually, we'll either get the answer, or be told by someone in a position to know that the questions are unanswerable.

She continues telepathically As to attracting attention... well, yes, that's why we found an out of the way corridor and buried the body. She pauses briefly and continues ... not that I really expect an extra dead body or two to draw much attention here.

ThreadNecro5

2018-08-01, 03:20 PM

As to the CdG: Auto hit, auto crit. So that's....
Claw for [roll0] and it's also Conductive, so adding Corrupting Touch into the mix, for an extra [roll1] (it has an attack roll, so can crit too). Assuming the damage doesn't kill it outright, that's Fort a save DC of "you'll need a 20"

As to Stone Shape for burying: Might need two castings, but it's just 3rd level slots. Open up the ground under them, close it up over them and smooth things out so it doesn't seem disturbed.

The demon is very dead.

I'd say it uses two castings. Open hole, dump bodies, close hole. As the bodies now take up volume the floor what do you do with the excess? I suppose if you just jam most of it into the corpses bodily cavities that should be most of it dealt with if you want to go with that.

Also as I don't think I specified what the floors were made of we'll go with marble.

I were travelling for the last month. I appreciate the intend on moving the game forward though.
I hadn't been informed so had to keep things going. Was there anything in my prior post you took exception to?

Scourge reeled back from the ball when information unwelcomely appeared in his mind. She brought her staff up to a fighting stance but relaxed momentarily afterwards as nothing seemed to happen. That was... disturbing. The thing had effortlessly not only managed to detect her through a high level of stealth magic but pierced through her mind blank as a knife through hot butter. She leaned in closer to get a better look and study it.

This too was strange. The gravedigger had specifically only warned against the Foundry as the plane from which souls were prevented from leaving from. And for some reason it seemed likely that these souls couldn't waltz away at their whimp. She sighed. Oh well, guess we'll have to wage war on two planes now.

Spellcraft to understand how the ball works, how it managed to detect her while she was stealthed and magically consealed, and how it managed to manipulate her knowledge through a mind blank. [roll0]. If that isn't enough she'll use Moment of Prescience to add another +25 bonus
Looking into the item's function it seems like it skirts around the Mild Blank through the triggering effect needing only to be observed, without looking into the observer at all. It would even function for animals and vermin that couldn't otherwise make use of it. The nature of this effect of the item is close to that of certain magic items, primarily certain Artefacts, to inform their user of the items function and properties. In effect it recognises you as the item's user at the time and allows for understanding and usage of it.

Jack_Simth

2018-08-01, 09:02 PM

The man in a woman's ... well, not quite 'body' ... renews his invisibility and mentally relays to Scourge And now we wait a few minutes for it to rise. Supposedly 1d4, so if nothing happens in five minutes, we'll know it doesn't work on demons.

The demon is very dead.

I'd say it uses two castings. Open hole, dump bodies, close hole. As the bodies now take up volume the floor what do you do with the excess? I suppose if you just jam most of it into the corpses bodily cavities that should be most of it dealt with if you want to go with that.

Also as I don't think I specified what the floors were made of we'll go with marble.

Jam most of it into body cavities, spread the rest in a thin layer along the floor & walls so that it's unlikely to be noticed. I don't really expect a detailed investigation, and even if one does happen... well, we're warded against most divinations, our fingerprints are unlikely to be on file anywhere, any biological evidence I might leave will vanish when next I dismiss my eidolon, this place is apparently A OK with random killing, and I mostly just want to buy a bit of time anyway.

Anything less than stone flooring and it's even easier - I've got a burrow speed, and by a strange quirk of the rules, that leaves no signs of passage (with the exception of a few specific critters... not sure how much of that got ported over from 3.5 to Pathfinder, though).

OK, yes, someone with Kn(Arcana) walking by who takes the time to examine a random section of flooring will be able to "Identify materials manufactured by magic" with a DC 23 check to realize this section was manipulated with Stone Shape... and in a quick survey of 20 "standard" demons, only 3 had ranks in Kn(Arcana). Even with that, in order to find out what happened, you're talking using less common effects like Stone Tell to ask what happened... and then find out the rocks didn't see anything useful: the demon just died (Lich Touch paralysis requires a skill check to realize the vic is alive at all, and stone doesn't generally have skill ranks), and then ripped a little for no obvious reason as it suddenly decayed into mush before the stone flowed up and around it to bury it along with it's cargo.

Plus the stuff that hasn't happened yet, of course.

I've marked off two 3rd level slots.

Rolling the spawning timeframe... [roll0] minutes.

Sønderjye

2018-08-04, 10:59 AM

Scourge stood and waited in discomfort. Their approach of murdering their way to knowledge felt wrong, even if it was demons.

@TN, how was the magic that imported the knowledge of how the ball worked into Scourge's head not mind-affecting? I guess that's mostly the part I am curious about.

Jack_Simth

2018-08-04, 10:11 PM

Pretty sure it was an on-the-fly fluff decision, but if you want to think about it: Telepathic Bond isn't mind-affecting either. Nor is Sending. Nor, for that matter, is the Telepathy special ability.

Sønderjye

2018-08-05, 06:24 AM

Wow, that's a good point. Dang. Here I had been hoping for another way of penetrating mind blank.

ThreadNecro5

2018-08-06, 02:18 PM

Wow, that's a good point. Dang. Here I had been hoping for another way of penetrating mind blank.

Essentially the IC idea of it was something idiot proof. The owner of the place thought ahead and took into account some people are immune to mind affecting and the like.

OOC I noticed in hindsight the item should have more to the aura I had written but as I could justify it without a ret-con I went with that.

The man in a woman's ... well, not quite 'body' ... renews his invisibility and mentally relays to Scourge And now we wait a few minutes for it to rise. Supposedly 1d4, so if nothing happens in five minutes, we'll know it doesn't work on demons.Rolling the spawning timeframe... [roll0] minutes.

It is not long until a spectral goblinoid form rises as the spawn forms. It's motions are strange, as if the skeletal structure that a corporeal example of it's kind would have moves a half-second ahead of the rest of it.

The undead fiend looks about waiting for orders.

Will I stat it up or you?

Jack_Simth

2018-08-06, 09:22 PM

Wow, that's a good point. Dang. Here I had been hoping for another way of penetrating mind blank.Err... Mind Blank doesn't grant immunity to Mind-Affecting in Pathfinder. It just gives a +8 bonus to saves... although that's a +8 RESISTANCE bonus, and most things that'll have Mind Blank up will also have a +5 Resistance item anyway, so really it's just a +3 bonus to saves vs. Mind affecting in most cases. The divination immunity still applies, but Mind Blank took a non-trivial hit in the 3.5 -> Pathfinder conversion. It needed it, mind, as it's was a cheap all-day buff that no-roll shut down one and a half schools of magic, but it's still took a significant a hit. Given how high your save DC's are likely to be, you can probably use Dominate Person on a stock Wizard-20 with a Mind Blank without much hassle.

Will I stat it up or you?
If I write them up, then they will be stock creatures, plus the dread ghost template, selecting abilities I'll consider either useful or appropriate. If you write them up, they end up as distinct from stock as you make them, with abilities you've selected. Either way works for me.

You mentioned a Swaith (https://www.d20pfsrd.com/bestiary/monster-listings/outsiders/demon/demon-swaithe/)...

Writing this one up... considering we applied approximately 200 points of damage to a creature with only 37 HP, I'm going with "Great Physical Trauma" and setting it to have TK...

Please review and let me know if I made any errors:

CR 7 (nominally)
CE Small Undead (incorporeal, chaotic, demon, evil, extraplanar, Augmented[Outsider])
Init +7; Senses blindsense 30 ft., darkvision 120 ft.; Perception +16

DEFENSE
AC 19, touch 19, flat-footed 18 (+3 Dex, +1 size, +5 Deflection)
hp 47 (5d8+25)
Fort +8, Ref +9, Will +4
DR 5/cold iron; Immune electricity, gaze attacks, poison, visual effects and attacks relying on sight; Resist acid 10, cold 10, fire 10; Spell Resistance 15, incorporeal, Undead Traits, Channel Resistance +8, Improved Rejuvination

OFFENSE
Speed Fly 60 ft (Perfect).
Melee
Special Attacks hexes (cackle, evil eye [–2, 4 rounds], misfortune [1 round]; DC 17), Corrupting Touch + (7d8, DC 17)

Spell-Like Abilities (CL 5th; concentration +10)
Constant—speak with animals
At will—cause fear (DC 16), detect magic, ray of enfeeblement (DC 16), read magic, Telekenisis (CL 12, DC 20)
3/day—charm animal (DC 16), invisibility (self only)
1/day—rage, water of maddening

STATISTICS

Str -, Dex 16, Con -, Int 13, Wis 11, Cha 20
Base Atk +5; CMB +4; CMD 22
Feats Combat Casting, Improved Initiative, Lightning Reflexes
Skills Handle Animal +9, Intimidate +9, Knowledge (arcana) +9, Knowledge (planes) +9, Perception +16, Ride +11, Stealth +23
Languages Abyssal, Goblin, Gnoll, Orc; speak with animals, telepathy 100 ft.
SQ eyeless, witchcraft

SPECIAL ABILITIES
Eyeless (Ex)
A swaithe has no eyes, but can sense its immediate surroundings (within 60 feet) as well as a human can see.

Hexes (Su)
A swaithe has the cackle, evil eye, and misfortune hexes of a 5th-level witch.

Witchcraft (Su)
A swaithe can use spell completion and spell trigger items as if it were a 5th-level witch.

Telekinesis (Sp)
The ghost’s death involved great physical trauma. The ghost can use telekinesis (as the spell) as a standard action at will (caster level 12th or equal to the ghost’s HD, whichever is higher).

Corrupting Touch (Su)
All dread ghosts gain this incorporeal touch attack. By passing part of its incorporeal body through a foe’s body as a standard action, the dread ghost inflicts a number of d8s equal to its CR in damage. The damage is not negative energy—it manifests in the form of physical wounds and aches from supernatural aging. Creatures immune to magical aging are immune to this damage, but otherwise the damage bypasses all forms of damage reduction. A Fortitude save halves the damage inflicted.

Improved Rejuvenation (Su)
In most cases, it’s difficult to destroy a dread ghost through simple combat: the “destroyed” spirit restores itself in 1d4 hours. Even the most powerful spells are usually only temporary solutions. The only way to permanently destroy a dread ghost is to determine the reason for its existence and set right whatever prevents it from resting in peace. The exact means varies with each spirit and may require a good deal of research, and should be created specifically for each different ghost by the GM.

Skills: Dread ghosts have a +8 racial bonus on Perception and Stealth skill checks. A dread ghost has Climb, Disguise, Fly, Intimidate, Knowledge (arcana), Knowledge (religion), Perception, Sense Motive, Spellcraft, and Stealth as class skills in addition to the class skills of the base creature.

As one of my abilities is "the reason for its existence" as a dread ghost (namely, Create Spawn), presumably someone must get rid of me to lay the demon to rest. This makes me somewhat nervous for doing this sort of thing in general.
Ephermial Recollection wastes no time in giving orders, telepathically telling the newborn You like me, you trust me, you want me to achieve the goals I set for myself. We've got some questions for you; step underground so that no one coming by will see you, and telepathically answer any question put to you honestly and to the best of your ability.

She then renews her own invisibility.

Afterwards, she mentally asks Scourge Would you like the first few questions? This does pertain to you a little more than it does to me.

Jack_Simth

2018-08-09, 09:08 PM

Sønderjye

2018-08-10, 10:15 AM

'I also want to know who the most ancient beings are and roughly where to find them', Scourge adds to Jacks questions.

ThreadNecro5

2018-08-10, 04:04 PM

Been a few days, so continuing...
The Jack in the ghost watches as the beast goes underground, renews his invisibility, and telepathically begins asking it questions: What do you know about the entity known as "Of the Locust"? Is it a god, a demon, a daemon, a devil, or something else? How does it manifest it's influence on other planes? What are it's goals? Any thoughts on how it might be killed? Of those people you know how to find, who is most likely to have better answers to these questions... including this one and the next? How can that person be found?

He renews his invisibility again as he waits for the newly spawned spirit to answer.

Now underground, the spirit speaks.

"Of the Locust?" it thinks for a while. No. It is a mystery to me. To catch a locust have you spoke to one? The Derakni do tend to swarm outside the city and in the daemon encampment half a days travel west. Like may well Attract like".

"And news is the Pontiff has returned. An information broker, He surely knows what you seek. He dwells within the library beneath one of the nameless stretches. Gakmilnmes, a brain collector may be of help to you but tends to wander. Rumours of disease will bring it.

Stats for the demon ghost seem fine, don't see the SR or Horrific Appearance noted though.

'I also want to know who the most ancient beings are and roughly where to find them', Scourge adds to Jacks questions.

The ghost looks puzzled for a second "Would that be the eldest natives of this plane or do you refer to the gods"?

Jack_Simth

2018-08-10, 09:40 PM

Now underground, the spirit speaks.

"Of the Locust?" it thinks for a while. No. It is a mystery to me. To catch a locust have you spoke to one? The Derakni do tend to swarm outside the city and in the daemon encampment half a days travel west. Like may well Attract like".

"And news is the Pontiff has returned. An information broker, He surely knows what you seek. He dwells within the library beneath one of the nameless stretches. Gakmilnmes, a brain collector may be of help to you but tends to wander. Rumours of disease will bring it.

The corrupted nature spirit renews her invisibility, considers, and nods, replying telpathically to the creature and including Scourge in the message Would you be able to describe the library - or the area immediately above it - in enough detail for a greater teleport? and strictly to Scourge, she relays Do you think many of these beasts use the occasional Commune to ask about the future? I've got a spell that messes with that... perhaps a few Extended False Future spells on a few objects that say they'll infect several creatures that go by with a highly virulent plague that any outsider can carry but only harms Devils, for whom it's nearly always fatal... and then someone else will start the rumors for us, because the lowly Quasit gets Commune, and if used to show the future those will point to a virulent plague happening that tips the balance of power towards demonkind. Thoughts?

Stats for the demon ghost seem fine, don't see the SR or Horrific Appearance noted though.
The SR I simply forgot; I'll go edit. I'm probably going to need to make myself a cheat sheet for this template.

Horrific Appearance... is one of the selectable abilities. One per 3 CR, one must be corrupting touch, and at CR 7 this one only gets two. I'm missing something... did you mean something along the lines of "this one gets horrific appearance due to the nature of it's demise, rather than TK"?

Sønderjye

2018-08-11, 07:50 AM

The ghost looks puzzled for a second "Would that be the eldest natives of this plane or do you refer to the gods"?

"Eldest beings that aren't gods", she clarifies: "But sure, also eldest beings native to this plane."

Do you think many of these beasts use the occasional Commune to ask about the future? I've got a spell that messes with that... perhaps a few Extended False Future spells on a few objects that say they'll infect several creatures that go by with a highly virulent plague that any outsider can carry but only harms Devils, for whom it's nearly always fatal... and then someone else will start the rumors for us, because the lowly Quasit gets Commune, and if used to show the future those will point to a virulent plague happening that tips the balance of power towards demonkind. Thoughts?

"Sounds good to me, though I would prefer if we were the one to seek it out rather than the reverse. It probably doesn't have mind blank so maybe standard divination will work?"

Jack_Simth

2018-08-12, 08:11 AM

"Sounds good to me, though I would prefer if we were the one to seek it out rather than the reverse. It probably doesn't have mind blank so maybe standard divination will work?"
The man in a woman's ... well, not quite 'body' ... renews his invisibility and telepathically shrugs at Scourge For Gakmilnmes, Scrying saves get a big boost when all you've got on the subject is that you've heard of them... and a scrying sensor is merely invisible, and can be picked up on with an Int check. Many outsiders get True Seeing, and the sort we're after will tend towards a high intelligence; even assuming that the target fails the save, there's very good odds that they'll know someone is watching. And with demon mobility, well... if they don't want to be found, they probably aren't going to be. Discern location requires we've met the beast or have something that belongs to it. So I suppose the question becomes which do you prefer: Luring him out, or letting him know we're coming just before we do? Or, of course, this beast might be able to simply lead us to Pontiff, who apparently hangs out in a known spot, making it much easier to find. In which case, the lure and scrying are both unnecessary. So I suppose we can call those "Plan B" and "Plan C", given that Pontiff is probably easier to locate.

Sønderjye

2018-08-14, 05:01 AM

Jack_Simth

2018-08-14, 06:39 AM

"We could have a scrying with a prepared teleportation, our difficulty classes are through the roof anyway. Unless the thing is unusually skittish I doubt it'll port away before we get a chance to talk. Your way works as well, though it has the chance of attracting more attention than we were bargaining for. I'm down for a trip to Pontiff, though."

Ephermial Recollection renews her invisibility, and mentally sighs as she replies to Scourge telepathically ... I suppose you're right... I think I would still like to drop the a few of the False Futures around here, though... if demons think close contact with them will kill more devils, they're liable to get closer and take more risks, because they 'know' they will be avenged on many devils. Basically, a disinformation campaign intended to get demons fighting devils a bit more... you know, as opposed to this systemic torture they're peacefully doing. We're obviously both mind blanked, most divinations won't have a clue what's going on even after the main spell expires, and you mentioned you're planning a war anyway... we may as well start by quietly weakening the opposition a bit, no?

ThreadNecro5

2018-08-15, 03:57 PM

The corrupted nature spirit renews her invisibility, considers, and nods, replying telpathically to the creature and including Scourge in the message Would you be able to describe the library - or the area immediately above it - in enough detail for a greater teleport? and strictly to Scourge, she relays Do you think many of these beasts use the occasional Commune to ask about the future? I've got a spell that messes with that... perhaps a few Extended False Future spells on a few objects that say they'll infect several creatures that go by with a highly virulent plague that any outsider can carry but only harms Devils, for whom it's nearly always fatal... and then someone else will start the rumors for us, because the lowly Quasit gets Commune, and if used to show the future those will point to a virulent plague happening that tips the balance of power towards demonkind. Thoughts?

"I know the entrance hall but wasn't allowed further." the ghost says after thinking for a short time. "The celling is about a balor's Hight and half-again. The building's mostly stone. Marble, I think. Rounded shapes, no sharp edges outside the bookcases, The ones I saw were floor-to-celling and had a statue of a creature in robes on each side. Don't know what. Other statues seem to grow from the walls at random. Oh, and they watch you".

The SR I simply forgot; I'll go edit. I'm probably going to need to make myself a cheat sheet for this template.

Horrific Appearance... is one of the selectable abilities. One per 3 CR, one must be corrupting touch, and at CR 7 this one only gets two. I'm missing something... did you mean something along the lines of "this one gets horrific appearance due to the nature of it's demise, rather than TK"?

A mistake on my end. When reading the template I saw Horrific appearance also noted "The dread ghost died extremely violently" before I even saw the telekinesis listing. As I recalled on your post was you noting it died from 'great physical trauma' my mind then conflated the two points.

"Eldest beings that aren't gods", she clarifies: "But sure, also eldest beings native to this plane."

"I once read a book on some of the minor and well known masters of the Arena. Some of those were so old their names were forgotten. The Headsman is an ancient killer of lost history. One of the more easily called is a half Archon Efreet now known as Everburning Soul, a title given for their valour apparently, said to almost sacrificed herself to hold off an elder demon, Kellesshis, and their warband. Only the halfbreed lived and was taken prisoner and eventually tossed into the Arena as an eternal torture. Then we have the Prince of the Masquerade. He was from here originally, known for hosing the greatest celebrations of the time. I remember a few others if you are still interested".

"Then there's Natives to here." the demon continues at a steady pace. Sherteter studied under Rugdos, rumours say serves him until she has mastered combat enough to slay him. Thworm Is said to have invented the at of training wild beasts to kill your foes and created the Vescavor". They're secrets must me interesting, yes"?

Jack_Simth

2018-08-15, 08:57 PM

The Jack in the ghost renews his invisibility, nods, avoids slapping himself on the forehead, and telepathically relays to Scourge Anything else you want to ask before I put this one away?

Sønderjye

2018-08-17, 06:29 PM

"Yes, let's throw out some false futures. Though I wouldn't say I'm set on a war just yet, we still only know very little about this place and there's a chance some parts of this whole ****show is redeemable. I'm not finding it likely but I'd rather avoid being like the colonialists a few hundred years ago."

"I know the entrance hall but wasn't allowed further." the ghost says after thinking for a short time. "The celling is about a balor's Hight and half-again. The building's mostly stone. Marble, I think. Rounded shapes, no sharp edges outside the bookcases, The ones I saw were floor-to-celling and had a statue of a creature in robes on each side. Don't know what. Other statues seem to grow from the walls at random. Oh, and they watch you"

"Wait, I got an idea." She says as she casts detect thoughts: "Imagine the place in your head and go through all of it in as much detail as you can", she orders as she follows alongside the images and memories inside the demons skull. She then does the same with the list of beings that the demon mentioned, trying to achieve familiarity with each of them.

Assuming the information for the library is enough for an interplanetary teleport Scourge will agree to having heard enough and will take Jack when he's ready.

Jack_Simth

2018-08-17, 09:57 PM

The corrupted nature spirit renews her invisibility as she mentally commands her spawn Yes, I know you're straight-up immune to the spell he's using. Try to cooperate, and do your level best to let the spell work.

(After the interrogation)

She nods, files away the information in her head, renews her invisibility, and mentally tells the beast I'm about to cast a spell which will put you into stasis for easy transport. Do not resist it. Then casts Shades to duplicate Trap the Soul, putting the beast into a shadow-gem, which she then stores in her Haversack.

For ThreadNecro5:
If you're worried about using a mind-affecting spell on a creature natively immune to mind-affecting effects, there's a relevant bit from the Saving Throws (https://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic/#TOC-Saving-Throws) section of the magic overview:

Voluntarily Giving up a Saving Throw

A creature can voluntarily forego a saving throw and willingly accept a spell’s result. Even a character with a special resistance to magic can suppress this quality. (emphasis added)

That's the exact same wording as in 3.5, and in the 3.5 PHB, the example was of an elf accepting a sleep spell, despite the elf's racial immunity to magical sleep effects.

Note that if the creature does attempt to resist the Shades spell... it's Will DC 50.

For Sønderjye:
You took Planetary Teleport as a spell known? That's surprising; it's 9th, but rather niche. I was just going to go with Greater Teleport; the area should be in range (otherwise our witness would have never seen the place), all it needs is a "reliable description", a compelled-to-honesty witness should cover that, and it's just Summoner-5.

ThreadNecro5

2018-08-20, 01:43 PM

Assuming the information for the library is enough for an interplanetary teleport Scourge will agree to having heard enough and will take Jack when he's ready.

I think the description is good enough.

The corrupted nature spirit renews her invisibility as she mentally commands her spawn Yes, I know you're straight-up immune to the spell he's using. Try to cooperate, and do your level best to let the spell work.

(After the interrogation)

She nods, files away the information in her head, renews her invisibility, and mentally tells the beast I'm about to cast a spell which will put you into stasis for easy transport. Do not resist it. Then casts Shades to duplicate Trap the Soul, putting the beast into a shadow-gem, which she then stores in her Haversack.

The ghost is successfully dragged into the gem that materialised into Ephermial Recollection's hand.

For ThreadNecro5:
If you're worried about using a mind-affecting spell on a creature natively immune to mind-affecting effects, there's a relevant bit from the Saving Throws (https://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic/#TOC-Saving-Throws) section of the magic overview:
(emphasis added)

That's the exact same wording as in 3.5, and in the 3.5 PHB, the example was of an elf accepting a sleep spell, despite the elf's racial immunity to magical sleep effects.

Note that if the creature does attempt to resist the Shades spell... it's Will DC 50.
I'd say that works.

Sønderjye

2018-08-21, 09:29 AM

Hell

With the information at hand Scourge teleports both of them to the entrance of the library.

Did Scourge become familiar with the elder beings reading the demons memories?

War on Gods

Strangely the giant's signs actually require more than two arms you find as your newfound understanding locks in place, up to six in some cases. Nor does the language have terms to designate specific individuals.

Unfortunately the giant decides to just leave while the power was being used.

'It does not listen.' you realise it last signed before leaving.

The giant is hit with a volley of memory altering spells in an attempt to restart the encounter once more.

"
Hey you, big guy," it hears the telepathic voice:
"I have questions about the gods and I was told that your Elder could help me. Can you take me to them?"

Same as last time the group reset the giants memory.

A scout found something

A scout deep into a swamp catches sight of something big, insectoid, emerald shelled and covered in flora. Trying to get a better look the creature it flees for a distance before seemingly fading into the surrounding plants. Just beyond this area is a clearing in the mangrove. A circular clearing about fifty foot forming around a menhir covered hill. Surrounding the hill are large, almost bloated, trees that on closer inspection how humanoid features. Atop the hill stands another tree, this one the biggest and also warped, hollow, and seemingly burst open.

The scout slowly moves forward, floating carefully and with eyes open.

Since the scouts can't cast mind blank anymore they just work off a stealth +37(taking 10 for 47) with Lurker In Darkness
Perception: [roll0]

Jack_Simth

2018-08-21, 06:59 PM

The man in a woman's ... well, not quite 'body' ... renews her invisibility as she goes along with the teleport, and on arrival, takes a moment to cast a small spell and look around, just to be safe.[/spoiler]

Specifically, casting an Extended Find Traps. +10 Insight to Perception checks to find traps, and I'm entitled to a check whenever within ten feet of a trap, whether I'm actively looking or not, for the next 42 minutes. Makes my Perception check for such things +57. I'll generally take ten when not threatened, for a 67.

ThreadNecro5

2018-08-22, 02:46 PM

Hell

With the information at hand Scourge teleports both of them to the entrance of the library.

For a moment the teleportation feels 'rough' or as if there is a pressure to it that passes as swiftly as it came. You find yourself in a room much as described, the aura from a Teleport Trap filling the area but otherwise it is normal. Behind you is a lightless carved out tunnel while in front is the library proper, a vrock standing guard.

Did Scourge become familiar with the elder beings reading the demons memories?

I'd say no. More information is needed.

War on Gods
The giant is hit with a volley of memory altering spells in an attempt to restart the encounter once more.

"
Hey you, big guy," it hears the telepathic voice:
"I have questions about the gods and I was told that your Elder could help me. Can you take me to them?"

Same as last time the group reset the giants memory.

The giant turns towards you.

'Does it speak?' it signs, thoughts to the same end.

A scout found something
The scout slowly moves forward, floating carefully and with eyes open.

Since the scouts can't cast mind blank anymore they just work off a stealth +37(taking 10 for 47) with Lurker In Darkness
Perception: [roll0]

The scout finds the creature's trail, remarkably subtle given how big the creature looked. It doesn't seem to have shifted a single plant and only disturbed mud shows signs of being freshly disturbed. Now and again another glimpse is gotten and the creature is intelligent, peaking at the scout from a distance and fleeing one it closed in once more.

The end of the trail leaves the scout at another clearing, this one a dense quagmire the creature seems to have gone into but not out off.

The man in a woman's ... well, not quite 'body' ... renews her invisibility as she goes along with the teleport, and on arrival, takes a moment to cast a small spell and look around, just to be safe.[/spoiler]

Specifically, casting an Extended Find Traps. +10 Insight to Perception checks to find traps, and I'm entitled to a check whenever within ten feet of a trap, whether I'm actively looking or not, for the next 42 minutes. Makes my Perception check for such things +57. I'll generally take ten when not threatened, for a 67.

There seems to be no traps, At least in the entryway.

Jack_Simth

2018-08-22, 07:40 PM

Sønderjye

2018-08-23, 02:34 PM

The hellish library

'A teleport trap? Interesting, I guess these people can also use magic that are similar to what we know,' the young lich tells mentally relays to her fellow undead.

She takes an in depth look at the magic of the room around.

'Are you seeing anything that'll pierce our disguise, or are you ready to waltz in?', she asks Jack.

Perception: [roll0]
Knowledge(Arcane) to identify existing spell effects: [roll1]
Spellcraft w/ arcane sight to identify magical properties of any magical item in sight: [roll2]
She also takes an in depth look at the Vrock with Arcane sight to learn it's spellcasting abilities.

Did Scourge not become familiar because reading the thoughts of someone familiar doesn't work or because the demon wasn't familiar itself?

War on Gods

'It does', she responds with the proper signs, hiding a grin behind her neutral face. Magic was awesome, this almost felt like cheating.

A scout found something

An erry feeling felt over the scout. 'Can I get eyes on me and a pair of rescuers on standby?', she tells her contact in the network. Eyes was a known phenomenon, the muses could inspire each other and thus could look through each other's eyes so one could come to rescue if needed, they had quickly found out that trick. Rescuers was a newer thing though, it was having three people touching, one readying an action to greater teleport in, one ready to latch onto the person they wanted to rescue and another ready to teleport the group out. It might be unnecessary given that they all knew that others were committed to ress them should the need be. The problem was that they didn't knew if they could be ressed yet and noone was eager to be the guinea pig.

She moved forward with slow steps. She couldn't feel it the beast inside her blindsight range so at least it was 120 ft. away. That wasn't enough though. 'See Invisibility', she muttered under her breath.

Jack_Simth

2018-08-23, 08:43 PM

The Jack in the ghost gives a mental shrug as he renews his invisibility, telepathically replies, and continues Sifting the area Eh... I'm taking a bit to figure out whether this guy is intended as an actual guard, or as monitored bait to alert the actual guards if something croaks him.

ThreadNecro5

2018-08-24, 02:02 PM

Ephermial Recollection renews her invisibility, and takes a bit to check the area in detail, looking for anything that could reasonably used as an indirect alarm - peepholes, scrying sensors, spells on the Vrock, or other methods by which one could monitor for the door being opened or the guard being disabled.

Heh. The area's warded with a teleport trap, but we're teleporting to it's linked target area....

Searching via Silent Sift (https://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic/all-spells/s/sift/) spells (cantrip). Searches a 10 foot cube with a 30 foot range, but puts the roll at a -5 penalty. 3.5 search used regularly was a five-foot cube for the purpose, so about four to eight times as fast. No immediate threats, so taking ten. Results in a 62 for traps, 52 for any other sort of fine details. Sift doesn't reveal creatures, but a regular perception check (also taking ten, for a 57) will find those.

Also checking with Detect Magic (Permanent, no spellcasting required) for any magical auras. And keep in mind: Constant True Seeing.

And, of course, renewing Greater Invisibility regularly.

Also rolling Knowledge on the Vrock via Pagent of the Peacock. Taking ten, for a 73. Is this thing "stock" or is there anything unusual about it?

Beyond the Teleport Trap there are no other auras making themselves apparent, nor are there any illusions or the like. The only thing of note, the being in a library run by literal demons beside, is that the stonework seems too smooth to have been worked by unnatural, probably magical, means. Even almost organic if looked at right. It was likely an effect such as Stone Shape but no aura remains. The statues however have received extra detailing by a living hand.

The vrock seems bog standard for it's kind.

The hellish library

'A teleport trap? Interesting, I guess these people can also use magic that are similar to what we know,' the young lich tells mentally relays to her fellow undead.

She takes an in depth look at the magic of the room around.

'Are you seeing anything that'll pierce our disguise, or are you ready to waltz in?', she asks Jack.

Perception: [roll0]
Knowledge(Arcane) to identify existing spell effects: [roll1]
Spellcraft w/ arcane sight to identify magical properties of any magical item in sight: [roll2]
She also takes an in depth look at the Vrock with Arcane sight to learn it's spellcasting abilities.

Did Scourge not become familiar because reading the thoughts of someone familiar doesn't work or because the demon wasn't familiar itself?

Magic wise, there are not magical effects or items beyond the Teleport Trap. Even the vrock is normal, with it's spell-likes. As normal the highest is 7th, what should be it's Greater Teleport.

Have to cut things here, fallen ill while writing.