I could use some advice on creating a character that might survive

[TomaLevine]

Recently an acquaintance of mine found his dragonlance adventure module and notes (but not character sheets) from ~15 years ago and has decided he wants to pick up where we left off. I'm the only one still around from that party and I haven't played AD&D2E in over a decade. He's inviting someone who's never played before to join us (who's probably going to play a draconian fighter).

He wants me to recreate my old character as best I can. About all I remember of him is that he's a Level 2 LE Half-Elf Mage and a few of his more memorable possessions. He want's to run a "hardcore" game (whatever that means) and is pretty sure just the 2 of us can't survive. He suggested changing from Mage to Mage/Cleric or even Mage/Cleric/Thief to boost our chances. (Have to stay half-elf though, since my race got us past an encounter where we would have been killed). I've got access to most of the various extra books (and if something from say FR looks good he'd be ok with changing names or whatever to fit it into dragonlance) and rolled the following stats: 15 15 15 18 13 15.

Part of the problem is he's really not a good DM. His grasp of rules is ... rusty at best. He's also got the kind of ego where everything is someone else's fault. When something happens in a way not covered by the adventure he'll ignore what you did and act like you did what the module says, no matter how little sense or impossible that is. He also has a really bad habit of just deciding to screw with your character for his own amusement, and when he does once again no matter how little sense it makes of how impossible it is, you're screwed.

So yeah, I could really use some help coming up with a character and maybe some tactics that might give us a chance of staying alive. (other than the obvious don't play with him. He's moving away soon and I want to get through this adventure as kind of a going away present for him.)

[knag]

When something happens in a way not covered by the adventure he'll ignore what you did and act like you did what the module says, no matter how little sense or impossible that is.

Sounds like he's DMing it just as Tracy and Laura Hickman intended. Dragonlance invented the railroad plot module.

To your question, I think a straight wizard is actually quite powerful so long as you survive to the middle levels, but since you're starting at level 2 it might be tough. Wizards are squishy. Certainly multi-classing as a priest or cleric would help harden him up a bit. I don't think a triple classed W/C/T is an advantage in this regard. A multi-classed wizard/priest is a nice complement to the draconian fighter. However, multi-classing limits your kit options. My favorite (and probably OP) kit is the witch kit for wizards, which is prohibited for multi-class characters.

Are you playing with the cleric classes from Dragonlance Adventures, or from the 2e PHB/PHBR3? If you're using DLA, are you good or neutral (or evil?). I definitely like specialist wizards for extra spell slots. Particularly at low levels that is a big advantage.

Just off the top of my head, I like:
Invoker with Witch kit
Invoker/Magic Priest (PHBR3) of Solinari or Lunitari with Mystic kit (PHBR4, pick levitation power)

If you are including kits from the Forgotten Realms, there are a bunch. Three of the best wizard kits for your guy from FOR9 might be Wizard of the Elven woods (d6 hit dice!), Wizard of Harrodale (+2 to starting Wisdom, big if you put the 18 to INT and now you have a 17 for WIS for you cleric), or, with a lenient DM, a Wizard of Thay (technically NPC only, but allows a DOUBLE specialization, perhaps in Enchantment/Charm and Transmutation, which have overlapping oppositional schools). You could also try to swing a priest of Lunitari as similar to a priest of Azuth - Magefriend kit, which would net you a bunch more wizard spell slots (equal half your priest level, in addition to your cleric spells), but would keep you kind of squishy with no armor.

So I guess the most munchkiny build I can come up with at the moment is:
Red Robe Wizard of High Sorcery Invoker Specialist with Harrowdale kit/Magic Priest of Lunitari with Magefriend kit
Red Robe Wizard of High Sorcery Enchanter/Transmuter Red Wizard of Thay/Magic Priest of Lunitari with Magefriend kit

A thematically cool kit would be the Selune Moon Knight kit, whose powers wax and wane with the moon, which is also the case as a Wizard of High Sorcery, so you'd be badass when your moon is full and weaker when it is new. Might make for some interesting timing of events in your adventure.

[knag]

I cracked open my DLA (which I haven't used in forever), and I realized that Wizards of High Sorcery already have barred schools, so it gets tricky being a specialist. Really the book was written for 1st edition. You could either be a renegade wizard (with all the social implications that implies with WoHS) or if you're a Red Robe then I think being a Transmuter makes sense, or as a White Robe maybe an Abjurer, which is usually not my favorite specialty. Or else forgo specialization entirely for the WoHS.

[JadedDM]

Technically speaking, a mage/cleric isn't even possible in Dragonlance, due to lore reasons (you're basically swearing allegiance to two gods at once).

However, if you're only level 2, you haven't even taken your Test yet so you aren't even in the WotS yet or have to worry about their rules or restrictions. Only once you gain the ability to cast level 3 spells (so around 5th level) do you have to be worried about being labeled a renegade.

[LibraryOgre]

Technically speaking, a mage/cleric isn't even possible in Dragonlance, due to lore reasons (you're basically swearing allegiance to two gods at once).

However, if you're only level 2, you haven't even taken your Test yet so you aren't even in the WotS yet or have to worry about their rules or restrictions. Only once you gain the ability to cast level 3 spells (so around 5th level) do you have to be worried about being labeled a renegade.

Note quite true, as Solinari, Lunitari, and Nuitari all have clerics.... but RAW for 2e, you have to be a dual-class wizard (5th level or higher)/cleric. And, of course, you could be a renegade wizard and a cleric.

[opaopajr]

Just assume you're not going to survive, smile and agree to all his suggestions, and prepare yourself for his cheesy TPK. Then further expect him to blame you for it in the end, all the while gloating how clever he is for killing you all. :smallsmile:

Smile, nod, let him move with his grand victory in Imagination Land fresh in mind, and move on. :smallcool:

You've already stated it's all going to be meaningless and you will be abused regardless. So let him make all your PC-design decisions, give him his last hurrah, and be off with him! :smallamused: Ta-dah, now you're emotionally disconnected from the oncoming poopstorm and can focus upon enjoying his company a last time with grace. :smallcool:

[knag]

Note quite true, as Solinari, Lunitari, and Nuitari all have clerics.... but RAW for 2e, you have to be a dual-class wizard (5th level or higher)/cleric. And, of course, you could be a renegade wizard and a cleric.

What book is this in? I haven't seen any discussion of multi-classing in Krynn. I agree that it's thematically odd to be a wizard and a cleric, which is why I was suggesting a cleric of Solinari or Lunitari, but I'd love to see whatever rules there are on the subject. Also OP is an half-elf, so he can't be dual classed.

[hamlet]

What book is this in? I haven't seen any discussion of multi-classing in Krynn. I agree that it's thematically odd to be a wizard and a cleric, which is why I was suggesting a cleric of Solinari or Lunitari, but I'd love to see whatever rules there are on the subject. Also OP is an half-elf, so he can't be dual classed.

Tales of the Lance boxed set. It's in the deity descriptions. Honestly, I don't think it fits thematically as the three moons are deities of arcane magic, not clerical. Their worshippers being wizards is fine. Maybe giving them access to clerical spells after they've been researched and put into a spell book or something, but even that is a little wonky.

[knag]

Tales of the Lance boxed set. It's in the deity descriptions. Honestly, I don't think it fits thematically as the three moons are deities of arcane magic, not clerical. Their worshippers being wizards is fine. Maybe giving them access to clerical spells after they've been researched and put into a spell book or something, but even that is a little wonky.

But according to your source, there are priests of the moon gods, and they do have clerical magic after they do the weird dual class thing from 5th level, right? So one can be a priest of Solinari with access to clerical magic in the usual way, it just has an odd entrance, and you presumably can still cast arcane magic from your previous class. So being a multi-classed wizard/priest of magic isn't thematically that different, but is, as you say, not RAW since they're not doing the whole dual classed thing.

And since there are priests of Solinari/Lunitari/Nuitari who are distinct from the Orders of High Sorcery, it's actually not a problem to multi-class to some other god who doesn't have the weird requirement to be a wizard first. A wizard/priest of Gilean for example would seem to make sense.

Wizard of High Sorcery =/= Priest of Solinari/Lunitari/Nuitari, and there's nothing in the RAW preventing a multi-class wizard/cleric to some non-magic god.

[hamlet]

But according to your source, there are priests of the moon gods, and they do have clerical magic after they do the weird dual class thing from 5th level, right? So one can be a priest of Solinari with access to clerical magic in the usual way, it just has an odd entrance, and you presumably can still cast arcane magic from your previous class. So being a multi-classed wizard/priest of magic isn't thematically that different, but is, as you say, not RAW since they're not doing the whole dual classed thing.

And since there are priests of Solinari/Lunitari/Nuitari who are distinct from the Orders of High Sorcery, it's actually not a problem to multi-class to some other god who doesn't have the weird requirement to be a wizard first. A wizard/priest of Gilean for example would seem to make sense.

Wizard of High Sorcery =/= Priest of Solinari/Lunitari/Nuitari, and there's nothing in the RAW preventing a multi-class wizard/cleric to some non-magic god.

You're misinterpreting me. I'm not saying that it doesn't exist or that your multi-class vs. dual class isn't a valid idea. I'm just saying, from my perspective, I don't like it.

But, yes, if I were your DM, I wouldn't have too much of a problem with what you're talking about.

[TomaLevine]

Dragonlance invented the railroad plot module.

Yeah, railroading happens in a lot of campaigns, but there are ways to do it so the player either doesn't notice or it gives them a reason to follow the plot, and ways to do it that just piss off and frustrate the player. I could give an example, but it'd be kinda long and not really on topic so I don't know if I should.

We're using the 2e Player's Handbook, and I'm Lawful Evil. When I asked the DM about which books I could use he told me any I had access to (I've got Forgotten Realms and Dark Sun (and a few random ones from the other settings), and he has a bunch of Dragonlance books). I'm pretty sure he wouldn't care if it's meant to be an NPC class, but I'll check.


Just assume you're not going to survive, smile and agree to all his suggestions, and prepare yourself for his cheesy TPK. Then further expect him to blame you for it in the end, all the while gloating how clever he is for killing you all.

Oh, I'm already assuming we're going to die, I just want to try to survive as long as possible and try to make it as fun as possible for the new guy. I want him to have as positive\fun an introduction into D&D as I'm able to.

I just want to say a big Thank You! to everyone for your help. I'm going to go start investigating and building a character now. I need to have it done by Sunday evening.


Edit: I've been looking at the suggested kits, and I've run into a slight snag. I can't find a couple of them. What books are the Magefriend and Selune Moon Knight kits in? What book is the Magic Priest in? Is the Wizard of High Sorcery the one from Dragonlance Adventure? :smallconfused:

[knag]

Edit: I've been looking at the suggested kits, and I've run into a slight snag. I can't find a couple of them. What books are the Magefriend and Selune Moon Knight kits in? What book is the Magic Priest in? Is the Wizard of High Sorcery the one from Dragonlance Adventure? :smallconfused:

Magefriend and Selune Moon Knight are in FOR9 Wizards and Rogues of the Realms.

Priesthoods of Magic gods are in PHBR3 The Complete Priests Handbook. Note that a Magic Priest is a priesthood, not a kit. These are in PHBR3 and are basically alternate versions of the cleric core class. For example not all priesthoods can turn/control undead (though the Magic priesthood does). You could also add a cleric kit to this priesthood, such as the Selune Moon Knight.

Wizards of High Sorcery are first in Dragonlance Adventures, but if you're playing 2e, they are also outlined in the Tales of the Lance boxed set. The XP progression is quicker in Tales of the Lance than in DLA, but the spell slots are basically the same and they removed the 18th level cap. Wizards of High Sorcery have restrictions on schools of magic, so if you pick a specialty which aligns with those schools, there's no further restriction due to donning a Robe. Black Robe's only blocked school is Illusion/Phantasm, so there might be a benefit to not specializing, but I always like the extra slots.