Casting as a bonus action

[gutogrando]

Hi all, how are you guys?

So, I'm trying to do a little combo here. I'm planning to roll an Arcane Trickster (bow/X bow) for my next campaign, and since I'll have access to mage cantrip, I'll try to do a little combo to ensure more sneak attacks.

Since the cantrip True Strike grants me advantage, I'm trying to think in a solution to use ir as a bonus action, so I can always use it while attacking and thus sneaking attack every single turn.

Is there any way to do this unlimited times a day? It could be casting as bonus action, or attacking as bonus action, either way should work, since I could just cast as a regular action and attack as the bonus action.

[BobZan]

Eldritch Knight 7 can use it and attack with the bonus action. Valor Bard 14, too.

Multiple discussions around True Strike and yet nobody found a way to use it reliably. Not a good cantrip.

[DarkKnightJin]

Don't bother with True Strike.
It's not worth it.
It's Concentration, it's on 1 attack roll (which is less of a problem for a Rogue), but there is no way to make it a Bonus Action to cast without resources.
Namely Sorcerer's Quicken Metamagic.

You could use it for a setup round while you're not in direct danger..
Or you could get an ally within 5 feet of the target and get Sneak Attack anyway. Without wasting anything on casting True Strike.

Tl;dr: True Strike is one of the few 'trap' options that 5e has. Pick something else. Anything else, really.
Booming Blade is better, even if you need to make a melee attack for the spell to work.

[DarkKnightJin]

Eldritch Knight 7 can use it and attack with the bonus action. Valor Bard 14, too.

Multiple discussions around True Strike and yet nobody found a way to use it reliably. Not a good cantrip.

Either of those could also attack twice and get more damage out of it, too. Both attacks could be a crit.
I'd rather attack twice, than sacrifice my Action and get 1 attack with Advantage..

[Tubben]

Hi all, how are you guys?

So, I'm trying to do a little combo here. I'm planning to roll an Arcane Trickster (bow/X bow) for my next campaign, and since I'll have access to mage cantrip, I'll try to do a little combo to ensure more sneak attacks.

What speaks against using an halfling, getting Sentinel feat, and then

Action: Sneak Attack
Bonus Action: Hide
Reaction (If Sentinel is triggered) : Sneak Attack.

Should work.

Edit: dont forget the Errata regarding Sentinel, but i think you have to be in melee to use it for an sneak attack.

[Quoz]

There are other ways to gain advantage with a lot less hassle.

Get a scroll of find familiar, familiar uses help action.

Crossbow expertise, throw a net as your action to restrain target. Bonus action shoot.

Expertise athletics + crossbow expertise. Shove prone for action, then shoot.

[Aett_Thorn]

There are other ways to gain advantage with a lot less hassle.

Get a scroll of find familiar, familiar uses help action.

Crossbow expertise, throw a net as your action to restrain target. Bonus action shoot.

Expertise athletics + crossbow expertise. Shove prone for action, then shoot.

The last one would cancel out the advantage, wouldn't it? Doesn't shooting a prone target with a ranged weapon cause disadvantage?

[gutogrando]

Thanks for all the advices guys, but I think I was not clear in my intentions...
I want to find a way to ensure I can sneak attack every single turn that I don't have an ally close to the target, nor surprising the target, or any other regular situation I would be granted a sneak attack.
Since I'm rolling AT, I'll have low CON (probably 10, 12 tops), so low HP too. Not a good ideia melee in such situation, that why I prefer ranged attacks.
Some of the advice gave in the post are pretty good, but still not optional:

1) EK lv 7 or Bard lv 14 don´t worth it since keeps my sneak attack too low, no point here.
2) Blooming Blade is melee, so not optimal too
3) Sorc points is too limited since I want to avoid multiclass to keeps sneak attack stronger
4) As far as I know, Sentinel only benefits melee attacks, and you can only sneak attack once per turn anyways
5) Halfing seems like a good idea, hide behind another ranged ally... But I lose 1 talent, 1 skill and... I don't like roleplay halfings... =/
6) Familiars looks nice, I don't even need a scroll since I can pick the spell as AT lv3. But I can bet my DM will kill him the first time a use him to sneak attack (and the list of familiars don't let me have a monkey... I want a monkey!!! lol )
7) Throwing a net puts me too close to the target, and also is limited to the amount of nets I can carry... Prepare a net to throw it with one hand, in the middle of the combat? I doubt it is possible
8) Shove target to prone don't need a melee action too?

Since I have access to spells pretty early, can't I cast a long suration spell to help me hide or something? I know there is Invisibility, but is a one time thing, again. Can't I use Darkness to help me hide, or something?

[JackPhoenix]

The last one would cancel out the advantage, wouldn't it? Doesn't shooting a prone target with a ranged weapon cause disadvantage?

Nope. Attacking prone target from more than 5' causes disadvantage. You're staying in 5' (hence xbow expert to negate disadvantage from shooting in melee range)


Since I have access to spells pretty early, can't I cast a long suration spell to help me hide or something? I know there is Invisibility, but is a one time thing, again. Can't I use Darkness to help me hide, or something?

You'd need Greater Invisibility to stay invisible while attacking. Darkness may work, but you'll need 2 levels of warlock for Devil's Sight, otherwise, you can't see the target either.

[Tubben]

Thanks for all the advices guys, but I think I was not clear in my intentions...
I want to find a way to ensure I can sneak attack every single turn that I don't have an ally close to the target, nor surprising the target, or any other regular situation I would be granted a sneak attack.


Well, you can hide with an bonus action. you are profient and have expertise with stealth.
The chance you roll with stealth > passive perception of the enemy creature is not to small.

You can use your bonus action before your action.

Bonus Action: Hide (D20 + dexbonus + proficiency x 2) vs passive perception of your target.
Action: Sneak Attack

(I would prefer to first attack, then Hide, but well... - Most of the time WE attack, first, so i start an fight hidden).

I dont really see the problem here.
Plus there are some not to hard to get items which grant advantage on stealth checks.

But if you only want to make sure that you get advantage on attack rolls, the easiest and safest way for an rogue is to use his bonus action to hide.

Edit: Sentinel works on ranged weapon. The 5" limitation was removed by errata plus there are way to get more than one sneak attack per round (not turn).
https://www.sageadvice.eu/2015/06/18/sneak-once-per-turn/ Since you would take your reaction usually outside of your turn, but inside the round you can use your reaction in combination with sentinel to get an second attack in. If you are hidden (attack->hide->reaction) you get an second sneak attack in.

The next round you would have to hide->sneak attack and could not hide again to use your reaction for another sneak attack (but normal attack).

The problem is that you are not hidden after your attack till your next turn and can be attacked by every other foe.

[Quoz]

For a pure arcane trickster, a familiar is the only repeatable source of advantage that is easy to acquire. If your GM is trying to kill it, that means attacks that aren't aimed at you, so still a good bonus. I suggested a scroll to summon it since you only get a few spells without school restrictions and this isn't one you want to cast often. Shield is probably much more useful and life saving. They're minor items like healing potions so even if you don't have a party wizard to make them they should be readily available.

As for other ways to gain advantage, that's what your party is for. Take color spray as a spell, it will blind one or more targets with no save but that's your action so no sneak attack that round.

[Vogie]

If your DM likes to kill familiars, a single level in Raven Queen Warlock will give you a faux-miliar, which has the added bonus of giving permanent advantage to you on whoever killed the raven.

Other ways to get advantage:

3 levels of Sorcerer would give 3 Quickened True Strikes per rest, regardless of bloodline
3 levels of Divine Soul Sorcerer would give 3 Quickened Guiding Bolts per rest
3 Levels of Arcane Archer fighter gives 2 Shadow Arrows per rest, potentially (Wisdom saving throw) making them unable to see anything further than 5' away.
3 Levels of Samurai Fighter will gives 3 uses of Fighting Spirit per long rest, which gives Advantage & 5 THP per use.
3 Levels of Oath of Vengeance paladin will give Vow of Enmity once per rest, giving Advantage on every attack. It has to be cast while within 10', but you can jump out of the way after it.
Faerie Fire will give you advantage on every attack. It's a first level spell available to Bards, Druids, Light Clerics and Archfey Warlocks, and could be picked up with Magic Initiate.
Empathic feat (UA) gives you two rounds of advantage after succeeding an Insight check. The Silver-Tongued feat (also UA) gives the same after a successful Deception Check


Of those, you'll probably go Magic Initiate for Faerie Fire (or a single level dip into one of those classes/Subclasses).

The fighter routes will also give you the Archery fighting style. Something like 3 levels of Shadow Sorcerer could also fit, as you'd get free Darkvision and Darkness, while also making you harder to kill.

[Lombra]

Sorcerer comes to mind but it would be more an occasional trick than a go-to strategy.

[Blackbando]

The last one would cancel out the advantage, wouldn't it? Doesn't shooting a prone target with a ranged weapon cause disadvantage?

I don't believe so. Here's a quote from Roll20 (I'm away from my books ATM, so i'm not sure if this is the exact wording in the PHB or not).


An Attack roll against the creature has advantage if the attacker is within 5 feet of the creature. Otherwise, the Attack roll has disadvantage.

So, an attack with a crossbow expert crossbow within 5 feet of a prone target should have advantage.

[Toadkiller]

The statisticians are against you on this one. They limited sneak attack for reasons; of the options above I would go with find familiar I suppose. But it pretty cheesy.

[JackPhoenix]

Edit: Sentinel works on ranged weapon. The 5" limitation was removed by errata

Nope. Sentinel works with opportunity attack, and those work only with melee attacks. The 5' limitation (or its removal) only affects weapons with Reach, not ranged weapons.


I suggested a scroll to summon it since you only get a few spells without school restrictions and this isn't one you want to cast often.

ATs (and EKs) can't use spell scrolls. Spell scroll is only usable if you have the spell on your class' spell list. AT and EK don't have spell list, they "steal" spells from wizard list.

[Tubben]

Nope. Sentinel works with opportunity attack, and those work only with melee attacks. The 5' limitation (or its removal) only affects weapons with Reach, not ranged weapons.

Okay, thanks :) I was not sure and only checked the removed 5" limitation by errata. But yeah, you are correct. Opportunity attacks only with melee attacks.

[Willie the Duck]

Thanks for all the advices guys, but I think I was not clear in my intentions...
I want to find a way to ensure I can sneak attack every single turn that I don't have an ally close to the target, nor surprising the target, or any other regular situation I would be granted a sneak attack.
Since I'm rolling AT, I'll have low CON (probably 10, 12 tops), so low HP too. Not a good ideia melee in such situation, that why I prefer ranged attacks.
Some of the advice gave in the post are pretty good, but still not optional:
<examples, cut for size>
Since I have access to spells pretty early, can't I cast a long suration spell to help me hide or something? I know there is Invisibility, but is a one time thing, again. Can't I use Darkness to help me hide, or something?
I think you mean optimal, not optional, but we got your point.
Overall, hiding IS the #1 way to get SA every round, and from 2nd level and up, you can do so as a bonus action.

However, one thing I have to mention is that, no matter what we say here about how the stealth, vision, illumination, and hiding rules are 'supposed' to work, it is the-or-close-to-the #1 thing that DMs will house rule and instead play as they think makes sense.

But, since we can only work with the rule setup we know, let's continue. Darkness will help, but you can't see through darkness either, unless you have some way in which you can (such as level 2+ warlock). Enhance ability would enhance your hide checks (above what maxing your Dex and Expertise in the skill does). Distractions help, but are very DM dependent.

Note, however, that the idea of getting Sneak Attacks every round, with no expenditures, and no constraints (darkness you have to figure out how to see through, squishy ally or familiar to help, shoving prone you have to figure out how to do and opponent may be resilient to) is against the design of the game. Having to make hard decisions, expend resources, and/or plan ahead is the opportunity cost of the massive damage boost of Sneak Attacks. If it were easier to do, they would have dropped the benefit to match.

[Blood of Gaea]

7) Throwing a net puts me too close to the target, and also is limited to the amount of nets I can carry... Prepare a net to throw it with one hand, in the middle of the combat? I doubt it is possible

If you have the crossbow expert feat, having a net is a really good idea, and drawing a weapon can be done with your free use an object action you get every turn. It's a pretty decent way to deal with melee attackers closing in on you. If the net lands, back up and take a shot, if it doesn't, take the dash or disengage bonus action, then back up.