Druid vs. Cleric

[bugsysservant]

Allowing all cheese, from all the books, which is the more powerful class?

My vote would be druid for core, but Cleric for all source books. This is due mainly to DMM persistent spell. A ninth level cleric with a cha. of 16 can cast a persistent Righteous Might and Divine Power at the start of every day. Even a wildshaped druid can't match that. And then there is the matter of time stop allowed by the trickery domain. A DMM persist of that allows the most powerful spell loop in the game, since you can rest and cast it again, regaining all your spells in the interim. Even without major cheese, I think the cleric's versatility in terms of domains allows it to be better than a druid. Anyway, what are your opinions?

[Drider]

MONK POWER!!!pshh, of course not

I agree that cleric outcheeses the druid(still only slightly)

[Jack Mann]

Druid. Planar shepherd.

[Lavin]

As much as it pains me to say so, the Cleric. I have always loved the Druid more, but it does seem that the Cleric does indeed outcheese the druid, if only slightly.
*sniff*

[TheOOB]

I'd say druid. With wild shape they effectively remove their need for physical stats, beating out a fighter in combat ability while still being an able spellcaster (often better then a cleric, as they can focus more on their wis). Also, a druid can gain the ability to use a turning domain easy enough to allow them to persist a spell.

[Leon]

the gestalt Druid/Cleric

[TheOOB]

the gestalt Druid/Cleric

Gestalt doesn't really count.

[Thinker]

Druid. Planar shepherd.

Just to see the power level (it's over 9000), click this: http://forums.gleemax.com/showthread.php?t=709233

Wish 3 times per day? Check.
Cast as a 17th level Sorcerer? Check.
Allow allies to act 10 times for every 1 of the opponent? Check.

While not all possible at once, certainly all possible for an individual druid.

[excrtd]

Yeah planar shepherd does sort of tip things over towards the druid's side.

[tannish2]

technically threadstarter guy said ALL CHEESE, so gestalt druid/cleric would pwn, but why stop there? gestalt druid/cleric/wiz/rog/sorc druid wins over cleric, but for core, i would have to say druids... depending on which books you use different cheese is allowed to different ones but.... ya

[Jerthanis]

They're both full spellcasters, both with the ability to become better than fighters at fighting. Both do it with painful ease. Of course, the Druid spell list has always seemed worse than the Cleric one to me. The cleric seems to have better utility, buffing and save-or's than the druid, and everyone agrees that blasting is a waste of spell slots, which is kind of the Druid's forte. Also, the obvious forms to transform into with wild shape, like bears, aren't very effective, and it takes some digging to find some of the better animals.

Clerics get my vote for "Clearly better than they should be with no effort" above and beyond Druids.

But with everything, and enough effort, Druids get access to wildshape forms that could make your head spin, and options that would make those spinning heads then explode.

Druids get my vote for "Maximum possible potential with sufficient digging."

Druids need to know which animal out of which monster manual is the best, and what options to use, and how to stretch yourself right. Clerics just need to know Divine Power and Righteous Might are good.

[bugsysservant]

Just to see the power level (it's over 9000), click this: http://forums.gleemax.com/showthread.php?t=709233

Wish 3 times per day? Check.
Cast as a 17th level Sorcerer? Check.
Allow allies to act 10 times for every 1 of the opponent? Check.

While not all possible at once, certainly all possible for an individual druid.

Ouch. Since I don't play Eberron, I had never seen that, and it certainly does tip the balance to the druid. Although, in all fairness, from the look of the article, you have to choose one plane, no single druid could do all of those. But still...

[Brianish]

It's not as broken as they're making it out to be.

A Planar Shepherd wouldn't get the 17th level sorcerer spells because it's not an extraordinary, supernatural, or spell like ability. Using 3 Wishes a day is not only dangerous, depending on your DM, it's spending an awful lot of XP (and you don't get the wishes; you grant them to your party members). Find me a player willing to take that hit every day.

Plus, the feature is still restricted by the same formula as Wild Shape. IE, the creature has to have at least as many hitdice as you have levels. The really obscene stuff isn't an option until you've gotten far enough that it's not that obscene anymore.

[Ulzgoroth]

It's not as broken as they're making it out to be.

A Planar Shepherd wouldn't get the 17th level sorcerer spells because it's not an extraordinary, supernatural, or spell like ability. Using 3 Wishes a day is not only dangerous, depending on your DM, it's spending an awful lot of XP (and you don't get the wishes; you grant them to your party members). Find me a player willing to take that hit every day.
Not the way wish works, or the way SLAs work.

Wish is not hazardous at all if used within the bounds provided by the spell description. If your DM twists wishes that fit the provided spec...well, that's their privilege, but they're house-ruling it to mess with you.

SLAs replicate some aspects of spells, but not their verbal, somatic, focus, material, or XP components. The efreeti's wishes are freebies.

[lord_khaine]

in a nother forum i usualy visit they had 5 lv 20 druids fight against 5 lv 20 clerics, it was a very short fight, since in first round on of the clerics gated a paragon hellfire wyrm in, and had it use blasphemy at a caster lv of 35 or so, killing all the opponents.

[mostlyharmful]

Archivist, All the cheese of the wizard/bat-man through domain access combined with divine cheese and any devine spell from any list.... :smallfrown:

Druid spells, Heal as level 5 from adept, gate + shapechange from domains or druid lists, all the ranger and paladin lists for funky combat, timestop and true res in one character

[Wolfwood2]

Clerics are better at fighting single powerful opponents, which is what D&D 3.5 is based around.

However, nobody kills an army like a druid. A high level druid can lay waste to an entire nation faster and with fewer resources than any cleric. I mean, sure if you want to go tackle Johnny Balrog, be a cleric.

If you want to bring a kingdom to its knees, leaving nothing but a broken, withered husk whose refugees speak fearfully of your name... be a druid.

[Fishies]

Druid with Vow of Poverty? I've heard a lot of things about Vow of Poverty...

[PlatinumJester]

Just destroy a cleric's holy symbol and he can't do **** all.

[Fishies]

Just destroy a cleric's holy symbol and he can't do **** all.

Unless if he tattooed it onto himself.

[SadisticFishing]

The druid, without a question.

Weretiger form, Bite of the Werebear, Owl's Insight, Aura of thingythatgives+4morale to all physical stats, Evard's Menacing Tentacles, Girallon's Blessing, Energy Immunity x5, Death Ward, Animal Growth (which FAR outstrips Righteous Might), and Nature's Avatar. There's more too..