Shadow Blade: add stat modifier to damage?

[Waazraath]

How do you people read the Shadow Blade spell from XGtE? It's an illusion spell, that creates a magic sword, simple melee weapon, that does 2d8 psychic damage.

I can imagine a DM ruling that, when it hits, it doensn't add the damage from the stat (str or dex) to the 2d8 - because it's not a real sword, but an illusion, doing only psychic damage, so why would it matter how hard you swung it? Besides, the spell describes "2d8" damage, not "2d8 + stat modifier".

Then again, it's a sword, a melee weapon, which one could argue simply follows all rules concerning those. Like adding the stat modifier to damage. Which is so obvious that it isn't explicitly mentioned in the spell, that would logicly also only describe the spell's damage, and not the damage coming from other rules.

Thoughts? How does your table rule?

[Tiadoppler]

It's a weapon that you equip, and can drop or throw. It's a finesse weapon specifically. That means you can "use your choice of your Strength or Dexterity modifier for the attack and damage rolls." emphasis mine (PHB. 147)


They wrote the spell as the creation of a temporary object (a weapon with defined stats) not a spell attack. Weapons follow weapon rules unless otherwise stated. If there's been errata or clarification, I'm unaware of it.

[Desteplo]

It’s a finesse one handed. So you use dex or strength. It’s a physical sword made of gloom. Sword adds ability damage

[Aett_Thorn]

2nd-level illusion

Casting Time: 1 bonus action

Range: Self

Components: V, S

Duration: Concentration, up to 1 minute

You weave together threads of shadow to create a sword of solidified gloom into your hand. This magic sword lasts until the spell ends. It counts as a simple melee weapon with which you are proficient. It deals 2d8 psychic damage on hit and has the finesse, light, and thrown properties (range 20/60). In addition, when you use the sword to attack a target that is in dim light or darkness, you make the attack roll with advantage.

If you drop the weapon or throw it, it dissipates at the end of the turn. Thereafter, while the spell persists, you can use a bonus action to cause the sword to reappear in your hand.

At Higher Levels: When you cast this spell using a 3rd or 4th level spell slot, the damage increases to 3d8. When you cast it using a 5th or 6th level spell slot, the damage increases to 4d8. When you cast it using a spell slot of 7th level or higher, the damage increases to 5d8.

Here's how I rule it, despite it not calling for 2d8+stat for damage, and see bolded parts for why. The sword is counting as a simple melee weapon. As such, ti follows all other rules for damage, including adding the stat modifier to damage.

Giving it the Finesse rules gives you: Finesse. When making an attack with a finesse weapon, you use your choice of your Strength or Dexterity modifier for the attack and damage rolls. You must use the same modifier for both rolls. If you give it finesse, it allows it to choose your stat modifier damage to it, meaning that it was already there using just Str before.


Also, the spell says that you create solidified shadow. So while yes, it is an illusion spell, the weapon itself isn't a true illusion.


Final ruling from me: Base damage is 2d8+Modifier

[DivisibleByZero]

It's a weapon. It calls it a weapon. It gives it properties of a weapon. It follows the normal rules for weapons, which include mod to damage.
This weapon just happens to do psychic damage instead of physical damage. That's basically the only difference unless you throw it.

No official ruling needed.

[dejarnjc]

It's kind of stupid that it does psychic damage but allows you to add your DEX or STR mod to the damage but hey, that's what the spell does. Confusion is understandable.

[Bobbyjackcorn]

Personally, I'd just add casting stat. I know that might be broken but adding dex or strength to a *psychic* attack just breaks immersion too much for me.

[Jerrykhor]

On first reading of Shadow Blade - Its better than (F)lame Blade.

[Armored Walrus]

Flame blade specifically is a spell attack, so it uses your spellcasting stat. Shadow blade has to use Dex or Str, unless you have some feature (hex warrior) that lets you touch a weapon and cause it to use some other stat. So for Druids, Flame blade is still better than Shadow Blade.

Edit: Flame Blade also lasts 10 minutes, so there's a (IMO small) chance that you can have it up for two encounters on a single casting.

Edit2: You're right though,given the two, I'd choose Shadow Blade. But then, Druids have a lot of other, really good options, and get to hand pick their spells prepared every day.

[ProsecutorGodot]

Personally, I'd just add casting stat. I know that might be broken but adding dex or strength to a *psychic* attack just breaks immersion too much for me.

Adding ability modifier to damage screams how well the strike was aimed. Just because it's made of shadows doesn't mean some novice can go around swinging it and striking true. That also works for Hexblades, I think of it as channeling the patrons essence into the weapon and allowing it some bit of sentience, it just takes a bit of convincing to get there.

[Foxhound438]

On first reading of Shadow Blade - Its better than (F)lame Blade.

that feel when not sure if "lame blade" or "grade F"

let's be honest, it's both tho

To OP: as others said, following standard weapon rules it deals 2d8+mod. (rip real swords)

[Jerrykhor]

Flame blade specifically is a spell attack, so it uses your spellcasting stat. Shadow blade has to use Dex or Str, unless you have some feature (hex warrior) that lets you touch a weapon and cause it to use some other stat. So for Druids, Flame blade is still better than Shadow Blade.

Edit: Flame Blade also lasts 10 minutes, so there's a (IMO small) chance that you can have it up for two encounters on a single casting.

Edit2: You're right though,given the two, I'd choose Shadow Blade. But then, Druids have a lot of other, really good options, and get to hand pick their spells prepared every day.

I am always right. You don't need to compare Flame blade to Shadow blade to see how bad it is. Just compare it to a cantrip like Shillelagh.

Shillelagh average damage = 4.5+4 (assuming WIS mod of 4)=8.5
Flame Blade average damage = 3.5*3=10.5

Its barely 2 points of damage more than a cantrip. If you have +5 WIS its 1. But Shillelagh is the winner because no concentration required.

[Bobbyjackcorn]

Adding ability modifier to damage screams how well the strike was aimed. Just because it's made of shadows doesn't mean some novice can go around swinging it and striking true. That also works for Hexblades, I think of it as channeling the patrons essence into the weapon and allowing it some bit of sentience, it just takes a bit of convincing to get there.

I understand, I just don't get why a weapon dealing Psychic damage is gonna deal more damage with a well placed blow. Like, why would psychic hurt more when stabbed at your heart? It's psychic. Maybe it's interpretation of flavor.
As for the novice bit, I don't know, the spell states that you are automatically proficient with it, so you have inherent knowledge of how to use it better than a novice.

[Ohillion]

I understand, I just don't get why a weapon dealing Psychic damage is gonna deal more damage with a well placed blow. Like, why would psychic hurt more when stabbed at your heart? It's psychic. Maybe it's interpretation of flavor.
As for the novice bit, I don't know, the spell states that you are automatically proficient with it, so you have inherent knowledge of how to use it better than a novice.

Think of it this way...A sinister figure approaches you and you see shadow coalesce from thin air to form into a blade in his hand. Then the figure strikes at you with it - a blade of wispy tendrils that constantly shift - and stabs you in the chest. Not only are you psychically wondering what the blade is capable of, you've just taken physical damage as the edge of the blade keenly presses through your flesh. You look down at the wound and see shadow pouring out of the cut as blood courses down your chest. Does that scenario play more against the psyche than a blade of steel? I'd be mentally scarred by both, but magic makes it that much closer to the fantasy genre we're playing in here.

The other thing I'd add here is this: a raging barbarian would take all of the psychic damage but get half of the physical bonus damage from DEX or STR. The blade becomes a much better option vs ragers if you apply it in that situation. And it's even better if you've Hex the target and channel Aasimar radiant energy (1x per LR) when you strike successfully! If anyone else can chime in on other ways to influence the damage (without multiclassing), I'm all ears. I'm building an Aasimar Celestial Protector Warlock at the moment and would love more discussion about Shadow Blade.

[Mortis_Elrod]

I understand, I just don't get why a weapon dealing Psychic damage is gonna deal more damage with a well placed blow. Like, why would psychic hurt more when stabbed at your heart? It's psychic. Maybe it's interpretation of flavor.
As for the novice bit, I don't know, the spell states that you are automatically proficient with it, so you have inherent knowledge of how to use it better than a novice.

Idk man how do you think soul knives work?

Maybe they work like weapons because the user thinks they work that way. It’s magic .

[Sicarius Victis]

Psychic damage comes from illusions because an opponent, consciously or un-, expects the illusion to hurt them. And because it's magic, their expectation and belief are enough to make it true - or true enough, at least.

And what would you expect to do more damage to you: getting stabbed in the arm or getting stabbed in the heart?

Basically, you add normal damage modifiers to Shadow Blade because your opponent expects you to add normal damage modifiers to it.

[Dr. Cliché]

Is the extra damage from Str/Dex also psychic damage, or is it physical damage?

[DivisibleByZero]

Is the extra damage from Str/Dex also psychic damage, or is it physical damage?

It's all from the same source, so it's all psychic.