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BCOVertigo
2007-08-28, 10:19 PM
I think, for the sake of preserving my own sanity as well as others, we should take a moment to define the terms we use in reference to the types of players. Who knows, maybe this thread will become a compendium of slang that new people will find useful in deciphering our discussions.

My contributions will be these.

Rollplayer- A catchall phrase that includes all crunch inclined players, regardless of habits or tendencies so long as they know their way around the rules of the game being played.

Munchkin- The Evil of the crunch inclined gamers. These people use exploits, misinformation and questionable interpretations to get their way and ruin games for no reason other than to prove that they own harder than you. At least until they get booted and have to look for a new game that is.

Rules Lawyer- The Neutral of the crunch inclined gamers. This group prides itself on its encyclopedic knowledge of the RAW, but can bog down a campaign as they enjoy the rules for their own sake, taking far too long to track down the right ruling through countless books, sometimes boring and ruining the groups fun.

Powergamer- The Good of the crunch inclined gamers. These players know the rules and use them to aid the DM, other players and move the game along in general. They help with builds, allowing interesting concepts to be portrayed powerfully, assist the DM in setting up encounters and use their knowledge to make the game better for everyone.

Obviously people will disagree with these and they aren't a perfect fit for anyone but I think they will be useful in at least setting a point of reference in discussions about player archetypes. And anyways the finer points can be hashed out later.

Anyone care to write a similar set of fluff inclined gamers or any other aspect of play such as types of campaigns?

Nerd-o-rama
2007-08-28, 10:28 PM
Please do not use the term rollplayer. Ever. It's a terrible pun, and almost always used as a slur.

The other terms largely match up with my personal usages, though. I'd leave off the direct comparisons to D&D alignments, because those will only cause arguments. And you'll want several notes that there is no one "best" way to play the game, strictly numbers-focused, strictly acting-focused, or anywhere in between, as long as everyone's having fun.

BardicDuelist
2007-08-28, 10:29 PM
Isn't there a sticky for this? Like "common abbreviations, terms, etc"

BCOVertigo
2007-08-28, 10:51 PM
Please do not use the term rollplayer. Ever. It's a terrible pun, and almost always used as a slur.

The other terms largely match up with my personal usages, though. I'd leave off the direct comparisons to D&D alignments, because those will only cause arguments. And you'll want several notes that there is no one "best" way to play the game, strictly numbers-focused, strictly acting-focused, or anywhere in between, as long as everyone's having fun.

I'll be honest, my goal wasn't actually to define it so much as change it's meaning to one that the people who currently use it (in the pejorative sense) won't be willing to use any longer and would shut up about. My bad.

Again, the purpose of the good, neutral and evil is to codify the terms so that people are forced to break from the idea that all people who are 'crunch inclined' are game-breaking jerks who are only interested in dominating the unsuspecting DM and ruining games, even if it's only a subtle manipulation by changing the vocabulary in use. And conversely, the idea that people who focus on roleplay are incapable of any but the simplest optimization.


Isn't there a sticky for this? Like "common abbreviations, terms, etc"

I looked at that thread but I'm not sure it's what I want, since it just seems to be a compilation of terms instead of a forum for discussing them. After all AC is armor class and no amount of arguing will change that. These though, don't have a concrete definition and I wanted to change that.

TheOOB
2007-08-28, 10:56 PM
Also, the term rollplayer is commonly used negativly, while power gamer and min-maxer are sometimes used positively. When playing heroic fantasy there is nothing wrong with making your character powerful while covering up flaws.

It should also be mentioned that powergaming has nothing to do with roleplaying, you don't have to be a weak character to be a good role player, in fact weak characters are usually bad role playing because weak people never get picked for adventuring parties or if they do they die quickly.

Damionte
2007-08-28, 11:48 PM
I looked at that thread but I'm not sure it's what I want, since it just seems to be a compilation of terms instead of a forum for discussing them. After all AC is armor class and no amount of arguing will change that. These though, don't have a concrete definition and I wanted to change that.

Yeah all of this stuff is already argued over in the stickied thread. Read the first few pages.

BardicDuelist
2007-08-29, 01:45 AM
After all AC is armor class and no amount of arguing will change that. These though, don't have a concrete definition and I wanted to change that.

I don't know, I was always taught that AC meant air conditioning and alternating current before I started playing D&D :smallwink: :smallbiggrin:

Curmudgeon
2007-08-29, 04:08 AM
The Dungeon Master's Guide II has a pretty good list of player types right at the beginning of the book, covering a bunch of different motivations that your list omits. You might want to start there.

Kurald Galain
2007-08-29, 06:51 AM
Real Man: the tough guy who walks up to the dragon alone, and tells it to leave before it gets hurt.

Real Roleplayer: the melodramatic kind of person who gets his character involved in lengthy monologues, love affairs and death feuds.

Loonie: the kind of player who will do anything for a cheap laugh, including and not limited to casting a fireball at ground zero

Munchkin: well.


For instance, when encountering a sleeping dragon...
Real Men wake it up and then attack it
Real Roleplayers sneak away quietly
Loonies tie its shoelaces together
Munchkins kill it with a single strike, make armor out of the hide, and resurrect it as a familiar.

Favorite way of getting information from the captured orc:
Real Men use intimidate.
Real Roleplayers use trick questions and bribe it
Loonies tell jokes to it
Munchkins peek behind the GM screen.



Come on, somebody must have heard of this one? :smallbiggrin:

Renx
2007-08-29, 08:20 AM
I sorta disagree with the negative implications that seem to be inherent in these definitions...

IMO a Munchkin is someone who likes to hoard applicable rules, magic, magical items and power and uses these to "rule" in the game. A Rules Lawyer insists on equal grounds for everyone and will be irate when this does not apply. A Rollplayer describes a player who goes for stats and rolls and describes everything in numbers. A Powergamer can be a munchkin and/or a rules lawyer, goes for any sort of domination.

A group can get along with any number of these, as long as it fits the general mood. I doubt that there can ever be a general definition of these terms, as they're ambiguous and usually coloured with the specific prejudices and experiences of the player who uses them.

Ralfarius
2007-08-29, 08:42 AM
Real Man: the tough guy who walks up to the dragon alone, and tells it to leave before it gets hurt.

Real Roleplayer: the melodramatic kind of person who gets his character involved in lengthy monologues, love affairs and death feuds.

Loonie: the kind of player who will do anything for a cheap laugh, including and not limited to casting a fireball at ground zero

Munchkin: well.

Oh man, I remember that list. I haven't read it in ages, but it's as hilarious today as it was way back when.

Citizen Joe
2007-08-29, 08:53 AM
I think the distinction between a Munchkin and a Powergamer is that the Munchkin will used made up rules and equipment from Monty Haul DM's if not ignore rules or cheat outright to win. The powergamer is the optomizer and uses (abuses) every rule to get the best results. The Powergamer stays within the bounds of the rules.

A rollplayer doesn't really exist, it more of an accusation applied when a player is confronted with an NPC dialog. The roleplayer actually follows through with some witty banter, talking things through. Someone gets accused of rollplaying when they just throw down some dice and cut to the scene where they are smoking in bed.

There is a distinction between the Rules Lawyer and anyone else that simply knows the rules. The Rules Lawyer will stop the action mid play and argue about a ruling.

Matthew
2007-08-30, 01:56 PM
Excellent summation, Citizen Joe. I think I agree about 100%.