Challenge build: at will 1st level spells

[flamewolf393]

So heres the idea: You get every 1st level spell in the game from the main classes: druid, wiz/sorc, cleric, bard. You can cast these spells spontaneously at will. You otherwise level up as though you were a commoner.

You are to play through a standard 1-20 campaign with this character. What kind of build do you go for, what kind of tactics do you use? Clearly you will rape face for the first few levels, but how do you survive higher levels? How far will you make it?

You cannot cheese your way into having access to any spell higher than 1st level. So please, no magic items giving higher level spells, no buying a polymorph into an ancient dragon, no using leadership to get a wizard companion. Keep to the spirit of the challenge.

[Falontani]

Does my caster level increase on these spells, or am I stuck at cl 1?
Is it every first level spell on any list ever, or just the main ones?
No other classes at all, just the level one spells and commoner, or can I try for prestige classes as long as they don't give me spells higher than first?
What's my point buy?
Do I have allies?
Can I use meta magics on these spells if they raise the spell level? If they don't?

[Uncle Pine]

As a baseline, you should be able to get yourself to 9th level just by slaughtering single CR 1 critters as according to Table 2-6 in the DMG 8th-level characters can still get 200 xp for defeating CR 1 creatures. Naturally, you can keep leveling up by running straight into most traps whose CR is slightly inferior to your ECL and curing the damage yourself. This will eventually lead you to epic levels, provided you can find enough traps to feed your controlled masochism.

The question now becomes how far you can get by actually fighting creatures with your 1st level spells (from 9th level onwards).

[Vizzerdrix]

Hmm... Spamming animate wood, animate fire, sna and sm1 can carry you a fair distance. Druid even has a 1st level spell that can turn you into a wolf. Flooding the field with minions is almost always viable.

Nerveskitter is a flat +5 init to every combat. Usefull at any level.

Do we get to pick what stat our saves go off? What about flaws and feats? What about SLAs from feats?

[Jormengand]

Mount-spam is probably your friend here. Flooding everything with horses always helps.

[BaronDoctor]

Useful tools off the SRD main lists (note: includes Paladin, Ranger, and Assassin which, while perhaps not within the letter of the challenge, is likely within the spirit of it):
Bless Weapon, Charm Person, Color Spray, Cure Light Wounds, Lesser Confusion, the assorted Detects (call yourself a detective?), Disguise Self, Enlarge/Reduce Person, Entangle, Hide from Animals, Hide from Undead, Jump, Longstrider, Mage Armor, Magic Missile, Sleep, True Strike, Protection from X, Produce Flame, Resist Energy Lesser Restoration, Sanctuary, Shield, Shield of Faith, Silent Image, Summon Monster/Nature's Ally 1 .

Opening up other spell lists, Trapsmith would be really nice to get the first level spells off of.

Dumpster-diving from other books?
Iron Horn, Distort Speech, Friendly Face, Scholar's Touch; Deep Breath, Hail of Stone, Lesser Orb of X, Know Protections, Instant Search, Spontaneous Search, Serene Visage, Spirit Worm, Fist of Stone, Cutting Hand; Eyes of the Avoral, Resurgence, Lesser Vigor; Hawkeye, Omen of Peril, Stonemantle; Silverbeard; Bloodhound, Camouflage, Embrace the Wild, Hunter's Mercy, Marked Man, Snowshoes, Stalking Brand, Speed Swim; Instant Locksmith, Low Light Vision, Rooftop Strider

This theoretical character really seems to fit that "detective" role.

[flamewolf393]

Does my caster level increase on these spells, or am I stuck at cl 1?
Is it every first level spell on any list ever, or just the main ones?
No other classes at all, just the level one spells and commoner, or can I try for prestige classes as long as they don't give me spells higher than first?
What's my point buy?
Do I have allies?
Can I use meta magics on these spells if they raise the spell level? If they don't?

Caster level will increase.
No classes other than commoner. The idea is no class abilities of any kind, you have to rely solely on this ability you are given.
Standard 20 point.
Metamagics are allowed if the spell is not raised above 1st level. So anything that is +0 level would work. Also I guess that means practiced metamagic with a +1 would also technically work, though a little cheesy.




Hmm... Spamming animate wood, animate fire, sna and sm1 can carry you a fair distance. Druid even has a 1st level spell that can turn you into a wolf. Flooding the field with minions is almost always viable.

Nerveskitter is a flat +5 init to every combat. Usefull at any level.

Do we get to pick what stat our saves go off? What about flaws and feats? What about SLAs from feats?

Sure. As long as its a mental stat. Standard rules allow upto two flaws. Feats happen at standard progression, I would say no to a feat granting an SLA above 1st level.


As a baseline, you should be able to get yourself to 9th level just by slaughtering single CR 1 critters as according to Table 2-6 in the DMG 8th-level characters can still get 200 xp for defeating CR 1 creatures. Naturally, you can keep leveling up by running straight into most traps whose CR is slightly inferior to your ECL and curing the damage yourself. This will eventually lead you to epic levels, provided you can find enough traps to feed your controlled masochism.

The question now becomes how far you can get by actually fighting creatures with your 1st level spells (from 9th level onwards).

Kinda goes against the spirit of the challenge. The idea is how far can you get through a standard 1-20 adventure, not how long can you spend farming critters.

[Jormengand]

Oh, if we're allowed to use metamagic reducers then easy metamagic practical metamagic fell drain chill touch will drain a number of levels off someone equal to your caster level in a single standard action due to the Rules Compendium rules on spells which allow multiple attacks with an instantaneous duration. Put on easy or practical reach spell and you can do this without having to run up and hit people too. If you're faced with undead, you can blow them away with will-or-lose CL times per casting, and against constructs... well, you just have to shove damage onto them rather than negative levels.

If you use arcane thesis on chill touch, this will save you feats (assuming you use it as your primary metamagic-pony) and you can also add fell animate onto it with easy and practical metamagic fell animate, which allows you to raise undead without needing actual Animate Dead.

So, you need to be a spellscale or something else dragonblooded, then take:

1: Arcane Thesis (Chill Touch)
3: Fell Drain
6: Practical Metamagic (Fell Drain)
9: Reach Spell
12: Fell Animate
15: Practical Metamagic (Fell Animate)
18: Easy Metamagic (Fell Animate)

All told, your chill touches will deal 20d6 points of damage, 20 negative levels, force 20 saves against strength damage, and anything killed is raised as a zombie under your command.

...Yes, this is horrifically cheesy, why do you ask?

[flappeercraft]

I'm thinking Kobold then cast Shield, Mage Armor, Cat's Grace from Trapsmith and 18 Dex base gets me 26 AC at first level for a decent amount of defensive capabilities. Then use Protection from Evil to protect from mental attacks and then spam Hail of Stones from far away for damage. I would take also the Greenbound summoning feat for first level to get good summons and this would also get me access to Wall of Thorns for some decent BFC.

[Remuko]

Standard 20 point.

I'm fairly sure 20 points is not standard point buy at all.

[frogglesmash]

I'm fairly sure 20 points is not standard point buy at all.

Standard is between 25 and 32.

[Remuko]

Standard is between 25 and 32.

yeah thats what i thought.

[Hecuba]

Working with Death's Call as a base spell, you could probably make Save or suck work if you have



Level: feat
Output


H: Lingering Spell
F: Least Dragonmark
F: Energy Sub - Electricity
1: Born of the Three Thunders
1 Sonic damage, 1 Electricity Damage, Fort vs Fatigue, Fort vs Stun, Reflex vs Prone
Dazed on use
Cannot use Lingering yet


3: Mark of the Dauntless
Damage increases to 2 sonic + 2 Electricity, No longer dazed on cast


6: Arcane Thesis - Death's Call
Damage increases to 3 sonic + 3 Electricity
Lingering comes online - +1d6 Sonic & +1d6 Electricity following round


9: Explosive Spell
Can't use yet


12: Easy MM - Explosive
Reflex vs knockback & Prone & + 1d6 physical


15: Fel Frighten
Can't use yet


18: Easy MM - Fel Frighten
Fear escalation



You won't kill anything fast later on, but heck if you won't be pumping out those of tasty status effects. That assumes, of course, that they apply to the target - it will work best if they are alive.
Dealing with DC will be a killer though - you'll have to pump that Int or Cha (whichever you cast it from) at every opportunity.

Honestly, it would probably be best to dump Lingering for Fel Drain. But I like lingering.


@Jormengand: you won't qualify for Practical MM - it requires 3rd level spells.

[Jormengand]

@Jormengand: you won't qualify for Practical MM - it requires 3rd level spells.

Oh, then you'll have to cheat and use some race with the dragon type or DWK nonsense so you can abuse the dragons-automatically-qualify clause.

[flamewolf393]

I'm fairly sure 20 points is not standard point buy at all.

Sorry I was thinking of pathfinder's pointbuy

[Hecuba]

So the real question: what to use for the swift action each round once combat starts.
Insidious Rhythm, Instant Diversion, Swift Invisibility, & Herald's Call all seem nice. I suppose there's no reason not to rotate.


Oh, then you'll have to cheat and use some race with the dragon type or DWK nonsense so you can abuse the dragons-automatically-qualify clause.

Indeed. I hadn't actually noticed that you didn't spend a Human feat, much less flaws, at 1. Mea culpa.

[daremetoidareyo]

Oh, then you'll have to cheat and use some race with the dragon type or DWK nonsense so you can abuse the dragons-automatically-qualify clause.

And/or practiced spellcaster + node store.

[Vizzerdrix]

Alternativley, slas qualify you for craft alchemy I think. You can always shapesand your way around problems. Or through them.

[Afgncaap5]

Alternativley, slas qualify you for craft alchemy I think. You can always shapesand your way around problems. Or through them.

Especially with things like Magecraft on your side.

[Venger]

Hmm... Spamming animate wood, animate fire, sna and sm1 can carry you a fair distance. Druid even has a 1st level spell that can turn you into a wolf. Flooding the field with minions is almost always viable.

Nerveskitter is a flat +5 init to every combat. Usefull at any level.

Do we get to pick what stat our saves go off? What about flaws and feats? What about SLAs from feats?
aspect of the wolf is the name of that spell. it's pretty decent at low levels, as is produce flame.


Mount-spam is probably your friend here. Flooding everything with horses always helps.
I'm a big fan of a protective horse field


Oh, then you'll have to cheat and use some race with the dragon type or DWK nonsense so you can abuse the dragons-automatically-qualify clause.
or just earth spell + heighten, like shadowcraft gnomes do

AMflamewolf393, what, in total, are the goalposts? So far I think it's:

1 no items to give access to higher level spells
2 no leadership or leadership derivatives
3 no classes aside from commoner
4 caster level increases normally
5 metamagic as long as it doesn't boost over effective spell lvl of 1 are allowed

is there anything else?

as far as these go:

1 is summoning to get access to higher spells kosher?
2 is charm person allowed?

generally, since class is removed from the equation, a good approach will be to basically treat it like an e6 character and focus on wblmancy. with infinite 1sts, you can make money fairly trivially, and with the various ways to get minions (summons, charms, etc) you'll have a lot of hands making light work. from there, even if you can't buy wands, you can buy other useful items like feather tokens and catapults and stuff.

[Yogibear41]

Depending on your interpretation of Knowledge Devotion it can add significant amounts of damage to spells. I used it on magic missile to add +x damage to EACH missile back in the day on my wizard-ish caster. With 5 missiles that is 5d4+30 damage. Some people say it should only apply once to each spell cast, but the feat says it adds to damage rollS


Does said character also get all 0 level spells at will?

[Zaq]

If you don’t allow bootstrapping to get metamagic reducers, it doesn’t seem like feats are going to make our spells that much better. I’d probably spend feats on Martial Study (gaining a new maneuver trick and a new class skill? Win-win) and other ways to gain new skills, and on ways to be a genuinely useful support character. There’s pretty much a hard cap on how much damage output we’ll get from 1st level spells if we can’t take real class levels, so we need to focus on having a remarkable amount of low-level utility and on finding ways to not get into trouble that requires more juice than we have. (Also, I assume that we can’t dump arbitrarily large numbers of our infinite spell slots into Arcane Strike for an arbitrarily large number of extra d4s, right?)

Alternatively, take Spellfire Wielder and charge yourself up with infinite Feather Fall. That’ll give you at least two decent hunks of d6s to throw at something per encounter. Can’t/shouldn’t be your only trick, but it can be a big arrow in your quiver.

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

Get any magic item that makes you immune to the Dazed condition (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?187851-3-5-Lists-of-Necessary-Magic-Items), or a feat or otherwise become immune, or get Quick Recovery so it only costs you a move action.

You can cast Summon Component (CM) at will, which gets you anything that you'll need to use as a spell component, such as a handful of snow in the desert.

Important Spells: Summon Component, Bane

Feats:
Snowcasting
Flash Frost Spell (+1 metamagic)
Energy Substitution: Electricity (+0 metamagic)
Born of the Three Thunders (+0 metamagic)
Explosive Spell (+2 metamagic)
Fell Drain Spell (+2 metamagic)
Arcane Thesis: Doom (-5 metamagic cost)
Rapid Metamagic if necessary so it's still a standard action to cast.

Conjure a handful of snow, cast Bane with all of the above attached, it hits all enemies in a 50 ft. radius, so no risk of friendly fire. All enemies in the area suffer the following effects:
-1 on attack rolls and saves vs fear effects (will negates, fear, mind-affecting)
1 electric damage and 1 sonic damage (no save, goes through fear and mind-affecting immunity)
If any damage was taken from the spell, gain 1 negative level (no save)
If any damage was taken from the spell, stunned for 1 round (Fort negates)
If stunned by this effect, knocked prone (Reflex negates)
On a failed Reflex save, an opponent is knocked out of the spell's area to the nearest edge, taking an additional 1d6 damage per 10 feet it was moved and another 1d6 if it hits a barrier and doesn't move the full distance.

You're dazed for one round after casting a Three Thunders spell, hence the need to negate the dazed condition on yourself.

So every round you can spam that and knock every opponent 50 ft. away, dealing damage and bestowing a negative level on them every round. Swap Widen Spell for Explosive Spell and take Practical Metamagic for it to skip the knocking them back effect and increase the area to all enemies within 100 ft.


You have Swift Invisibility (Bard 1st), so if you have snow on hand and don't need to cast Summon Component, you can cast Swift Invisibility at the end of each of your turns (though the snow will give away your position).

[Jormengand]

So every round you can spam that and knock every opponent 50 ft. away, dealing damage and bestowing a negative level on them every round. Swap Widen Spell for Explosive Spell and take Practical Metamagic for it to skip the knocking them back effect and increase the area to all enemies within 100 ft.

Locate city is first level, so I think we were all aware anyway that you could make the Locate City Bomb.

[Zaq]

Get any magic item that makes you immune to the Dazed condition (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?187851-3-5-Lists-of-Necessary-Magic-Items), or a feat or otherwise become immune, or get Quick Recovery so it only costs you a move action.

You can cast Summon Component (CM) at will, which gets you anything that you'll need to use as a spell component, such as a handful of snow in the desert.

Important Spells: Summon Component, Bane

Feats:
Snowcasting
Flash Frost Spell (+1 metamagic)
Energy Substitution: Electricity (+0 metamagic)
Born of the Three Thunders (+0 metamagic)
Explosive Spell (+2 metamagic)
Fell Drain Spell (+2 metamagic)
Arcane Thesis: Doom (-5 metamagic cost)
Rapid Metamagic if necessary so it's still a standard action to cast.

Conjure a handful of snow, cast Bane with all of the above attached, it hits all enemies in a 50 ft. radius, so no risk of friendly fire. All enemies in the area suffer the following effects:
-1 on attack rolls and saves vs fear effects (will negates, fear, mind-affecting)
1 electric damage and 1 sonic damage (no save, goes through fear and mind-affecting immunity)
If any damage was taken from the spell, gain 1 negative level (no save)
If any damage was taken from the spell, stunned for 1 round (Fort negates)
If stunned by this effect, knocked prone (Reflex negates)
On a failed Reflex save, an opponent is knocked out of the spell's area to the nearest edge, taking an additional 1d6 damage per 10 feet it was moved and another 1d6 if it hits a barrier and doesn't move the full distance.

You're dazed for one round after casting a Three Thunders spell, hence the need to negate the dazed condition on yourself.

So every round you can spam that and knock every opponent 50 ft. away, dealing damage and bestowing a negative level on them every round. Swap Widen Spell for Explosive Spell and take Practical Metamagic for it to skip the knocking them back effect and increase the area to all enemies within 100 ft.


You have Swift Invisibility (Bard 1st), so if you have snow on hand and don't need to cast Summon Component, you can cast Swift Invisibility at the end of each of your turns (though the snow will give away your position).

That's an awful lot of feats, and we can't get more through class levels. Even a human with two flaws will be level 9 before getting Snowcasting, your five metamagic feats, and Arcane Thesis, ignoring your mentions of Rapid Metamagic or Quick Recovery. (Assuming NOT a human and NOT using flaws, this doesn't come online until ECL 18.) And if we're actually a Commoner for our chassis, meeting the skill prereqs on Arcane Thesis (and, to a lesser but still real extent, Energy Substitution, which is a gate for BotTT as well) is hard unless we spend even more feats on improving our skill list. (Plus, Bane isn't an arcane spell and isn't a legal target for Arcane Thesis, but that's the smallest problem we've got; there are probably other spells that can be chosen.) And let's not forget that extremely few of these feats will do much for us individually until the big combo comes online.

For that level of investment, I honestly expect more out of it. Locate City Bomb is cute and all, but if the challenge is "how do you use these limited resources to matter 1-20," isn't a combo that doesn't come online for so long kind of missing the point?

[Hecuba]

Alternatively, take Spellfire Wielder and charge yourself up with infinite Feather Fall. That’ll give you at least two decent hunks of d6s to throw at something per encounter. Can’t/shouldn’t be your only trick, but it can be a big arrow in your quiver.

d6s are a though: lesser orbs are available at 1 and use ranged touch, sothe qualify for precision damage. You can get psionic shot online at 1 for 2d6 and greater psionic shot. Unfortunately, with a commoner chassis, you won't be able to get GPS or Assassin's Stance online until 12, which is a bit late.

[Zaq]

d6s are a though: lesser orbs are available at 1 and use ranged touch, sothe qualify for precision damage. You can get psionic shot online at 1 for 2d6 and greater psionic shot. Unfortunately, with a commoner chassis, you won't be able to get GPS or Assassin's Stance online until 12, which is a bit late.

The point of using Spellfire Wielder is that the damage cap is way higher with Spellfire than with Lesser Orbs or other 1st level spells, since you can store spellfire levels up to your CON score, which is way, way above the 5dX cap imposed by most (all?) 1st level spells. It's disproportionately high at level 1 (is there any 1st level spell that goes above 1dX at level 1?) and doesn't scale up that fast, but even having a CON score of 10 (which is probably unrealistically low), you've got 10d6 to throw around every encounter at level 1, and you can fire off those d6s in as big or as small a chunk as you choose. My early comment about "two big shots" was based off of a misremembering, but still, being able to go above the 5dX cap is a pretty nice benefit for a feat, even if it likely won't last all encounter. (Psionic Shot and GPS also work with Spellfire, though I will concede that the feat cost of Spellfire Wielder imposes a bit of a delay.)

It's not very cost-efficient without at-will spells or another force multiplier (see the entries in the Spellfire Channeler round of Iron Chef), but since this exercise involves at-will spells, it's a pretty good option.

[Hecuba]

The point of using Spellfire Wielder is that the damage cap is way higher with Spellfire than with Lesser Orbs or other 1st level spells, since you can store spellfire levels up to your CON score, which is way, way above the 5dX cap imposed by most (all?) 1st level spells. It's disproportionately high at level 1 (is there any 1st level spell that goes above 1dX at level 1?) and doesn't scale up that fast, but even having a CON score of 10 (which is probably unrealistically low), you've got 10d6 to throw around every encounter at level 1, and you can fire off those d6s in as big or as small a chunk as you choose. My early comment about "two big shots" was based off of a misremembering, but still, being able to go above the 5dX cap is a pretty nice benefit for a feat, even if it likely won't last all encounter. (Psionic Shot and GPS also work with Spellfire, though I will concede that the feat cost of Spellfire Wielder imposes a bit of a delay.)

It's not very cost-efficient without at-will spells or another force multiplier (see the entries in the Spellfire Channeler round of Iron Chef), but since this exercise involves at-will spells, it's a pretty good option.

Indeed, but is ranged touch and (nonscaling) releflex half and fire resistance applies for half. That's an awful lot you can reduce it with.

(Light of Lunia will get you 2d6 at first level of you have it running ahead of time - assuming you the SpC version that lets you dump both ready in one turn. But it has a 1 round delay if you can it in combat.)

[Zaq]

Indeed, but is ranged touch and (nonscaling) releflex half and fire resistance applies for half. That's an awful lot you can reduce it with.

(Light of Lunia will get you 2d6 at first level of you have it running ahead of time - assuming you the SpC version that lets you dump both ready in one turn. But it has a 1 round delay if you can it in combat.)

You say that the DC doesn't scale, but it'll be better than the DC on our actual spells until we've got +9 in our casting stat. If we aren't doing money-generation shenanigans and are actually sticking with WBL, that'll be a while. Again, a big benefit of Spellfire is that it works immediately and gives us a way bigger hammer than we're going to get for a long time. Even if that hammer isn't as shiny by, I dunno, level 10 or whatever, it's going to get us to level 10 a lot better than most other single feats would.

Yes, Spellfire has downsides, but it's still markedly more spike damage than we're going to get for a very long time with the weird constraints of this thought experiment.

[Eldariel]

Let's see now. Your standard fare control spells (Wall of Smoke, Ice Slick, Grease, Color Spray, Entangle, City Entangle, Command, etc.) will easily carry you to level 7-8. You also have Lesser Orbs for finishing off stragglers. Summons are good in the sense that you can cast one a turn to go around with an army of whatevers, number dependent on your caster level (Greenbound Summoning, Ashbound and Augment Summoning feel obvious).

Conjure Ice Beast and Summon Desert Ally are mildly interesting as sources of hard-to-block damage but ultimately Greenbound Summoning is worldbeater (though the summons can cast higher level spells I suppose, which might make it banned; worth it without casting those ever though) giving your stuff the stats to hit way above their paygrade. Of course you should ride a Mount or some such so you can always spend the round summoning.

Stat draining offers some interesting options. Ray of Enfeeblement and Ray of Clumsiness and Lesser Shivering Touch all hit pretty hard and particularly Dex damaging big things can be quite efficient.


If metamagic reduction is considered unsporting, Invisible Spell and Born of Three Thunders + Quick Recovery are interesting. Invisible Spell is great fun with Fogs, Summons and the like (though its adjudication varies) while Born of Three Thunders adds great rider effects to any damage spell, being spammable as all hell with Quick Recovery. Lock someone down and they will eventually die.


Defensively Mage Armor, Protection from Evil and perhaps Shield or such help. Nerveskitter and Sign are pretty nice for going first. For noncombat challenges infinite summons/Mounts/Unseen Servants/etc., Benign Transposition, Charm Person, Silent Image, etc. have you covered.

The only problem is, any remotely optimised higher level enemy spellcasters are going to wipe the floor with you.

[Venger]

Let's see now. Your standard fare control spells (Wall of Smoke, Ice Slick, Grease, Color Spray, Entangle, City Entangle, Command, etc.) will easily carry you to level 7-8. You also have Lesser Orbs for finishing off stragglers. Summons are good in the sense that you can cast one a turn to go around with an army of whatevers, number dependent on your caster level (Greenbound Summoning, Ashbound and Augment Summoning feel obvious).

Conjure Ice Beast and Summon Desert Ally are mildly interesting as sources of hard-to-block damage but ultimately Greenbound Summoning is worldbeater (though the summons can cast higher level spells I suppose, which might make it banned; worth it without casting those ever though) giving your stuff the stats to hit way above their paygrade. Of course you should ride a Mount or some such so you can always spend the round summoning.

Stat draining offers some interesting options. Ray of Enfeeblement and Ray of Clumsiness and Lesser Shivering Touch all hit pretty hard and particularly Dex damaging big things can be quite efficient.


If metamagic reduction is considered unsporting, Invisible Spell and Born of Three Thunders + Quick Recovery are interesting. Invisible Spell is great fun with Fogs, Summons and the like (though its adjudication varies) while Born of Three Thunders adds great rider effects to any damage spell, being spammable as all hell with Quick Recovery. Lock someone down and they will eventually die.


Defensively Mage Armor, Protection from Evil and perhaps Shield or such help. Nerveskitter and Sign are pretty nice for going first. For noncombat challenges infinite summons/Mounts/Unseen Servants/etc., Benign Transposition, Charm Person, Silent Image, etc. have you covered.

The only problem is, any remotely optimised higher level enemy spellcasters are going to wipe the floor with you.

very thorough catalog of spells as always.

I confess I'm not familiar with "city entangle." Is that a nickname for impeding stones? or is it a different spell? if so, where is it?

[Eldariel]

very thorough catalog of spells as always.

I confess I'm not familiar with "city entangle." Is that a nickname for impeding stones? or is it a different spell? if so, where is it?

Impeding Stones, yes. It's basically Entangle for cities hence the nick.

[Metahuman1]

I can't help but feel there should be a way to make magic missile a viable staple.


Like, Empower + Maximize + that distance increasing spell get's it to 35 damage on a standard action from up too like, 200ft per level away. If you can get the costs of the actions down. No saves, no miss chance, no AC to deal with or attack rolls to make. Quicken, if you can get the cost down, doubles that, and so would the double spell or repeating spell or twin spell metamagic feats if I remember them right.


Possibly if not using quicken combine it with swift invisibility and your move action and range to keep peppering the targets while never coming from the same place and always being invisible when it matters.