Barbarian wolf totem = stealth 24/7?

[johniemi]

What's up with the 5th ed Barbarian wolf totem 6th level ability? Specifically please lmk if the below is played correctly as this is what our party's "stealthy urchin Barbarian" is doing. I'm the GM.

-Moves stealthy 24/7, both in and out of combat, effectively...
-He rolls stealth every time there is a random encounter and I check it against the monster's passive perception...
-Usually the Brb wins, thus when combat begins, none of the monsters detect the barbarian but naturally detect everyone else in the party...
-And if the monsters want to detect the Brb during combat, they need to take an action to detect him (perception check), which they obviously don't do as they are too busy fighting the other PC's.
-Once the Brb sneaks up to an enemy (rolls Stealth, moves at full speed), he gains advantage on his attack rolls for one round
-On subsequent rounds he may hide again as an action if the surroundings allow (dim light, half cover) and no-one is looking. If someone is looking he needs to find full cover and then take an action to roll stealth.

All this just sounds too good to be true...?

[Tanarii]

Rolling stealth in combat requires sufficient cover or concealment, and takes an action.

Edit: trying to get surprise by ambushing requires the DM adjudicating that you can attempt to ambush*, moving at half speed so as to be able to stealth, and the entire party** making stealth checks against the enemy passive perception. If an individual enemy detects even one party member, they are not surprised.

Whether or not your Barbarian begins combat hidden if he successfully beats the enemies surprise check, but the other party members do not, is up to you.

*as far as I rule, this means you need to know the enemy is there. IMX, many AL DMs just require your party be moving at half speed.

**you can split the party so stealthers can attempt to ambush. How far apart the party elements need to be is up to the DM.

Edit2: yes the wolf barbarian can stealth and move at a normal pace. But the rest of the party cannot. He either needs to split the party and scount ahead, and if he wants surprise ambush alone, or slow down so the party needs to stealth with him.

[DivisibleByZero]

What's up with the 5th ed Barbarian wolf totem 6th level ability? Specifically please lmk if the below is played correctly as this is what our party's "stealthy urchin Barbarian" is doing. I'm the GM.

-Moves stealthy 24/7, both in and out of combat, effectively...
-He rolls stealth every time there is a random encounter and I check it against the monster's passive perception...
-Usually the Brb wins, thus when combat begins, none of the monsters detect the barbarian but naturally detect everyone else in the party...
-And if the monsters want to detect the Brb during combat, they need to take an action to detect him (perception check), which they obviously don't do as they are too busy fighting the other PC's.
-Once the Brb sneaks up to an enemy (rolls Stealth, moves at full speed), he gains advantage on his attack rolls for one round
-On subsequent rounds he may hide again as an action if the surroundings allow (dim light, half cover) and no-one is looking. If someone is looking he needs to find full cover and then take an action to roll stealth.

All this just sounds too good to be true...?

Even if you allow him to do all of that, how is he staying hidden when he leaves cover to move up to enemies?
Hiding is not invisibility. The moment he breaks cover, he is visible. If he can attack from that location, then he has advantage. If he has to move, then the only thing granting him advantage is the DM (not the rules).

[Aett_Thorn]

Isn't the Wolf Totem ability only referencing the "travel pace" rule? It's not an in-combat thing.

[DivisibleByZero]

Isn't the Wolf Totem ability only referencing the "travel pace" rule? It's not an in-combat thing.

Yes.
But there is no penalty to speed in-combat for using stealth, so it's irrelevant.

[Tanarii]

Isn't the Wolf Totem ability only referencing the "travel pace" rule? It's not an in-combat thing.
A lot of DMs use 'stealth while travel' to mean 'automatically attempt to surprise any monsters you stumble across'. Some also use it to mean 'start combat hidden'. So while it doesn't directly apply to combat, it can have a big effect on the start of combat.

Mainly the Wolf Barbarian and Ranger ability to move stealthily at a normal pace allow them to be good scouts ahead of the party who can find the enemy undetected, and report back to the party. The Wolf ability is a bit more powerful, in that he can travel with a party of wolf barbarians all hunting stealthily. But that's not exactly common IMX. :smallamused:


Yes.
But there is no penalty to speed in-combat for using stealth, so it's irrelevant.
It uses your action (unless a rogue) so that could be considered a 'penalty' since you could otherwise Dash. I know that's a technicality, but it's how I look at it, moving at 1/2 maximum combat speed.

[JackPhoenix]

-Moves stealthy 24/7, both in and out of combat, effectively...

As long as he's got anything to hide behind.


-He rolls stealth every time there is a random encounter and I check it against the monster's passive perception...

If the GM (you) allows him to roll Stealth. Which isn't given, you can't sneak upon anyone if there's nowhere to hide.


-Usually the Brb wins, thus when combat begins, none of the monsters detect the barbarian but naturally detect everyone else in the party...

Thus ruining any chance of achieving surprise, making the barbarian's Stealth pretty much irrelevant.


-And if the monsters want to detect the Brb during combat, they need to take an action to detect him (perception check), which they obviously don't do as they are too busy fighting the other PC's.

But that's OK, while he's hiding, he's not attacking. And he's not a rogue, so it's not like he's getting Sneak Attack damage out of hiding.


-Once the Brb sneaks up to an enemy (rolls Stealth, moves at full speed), he gains advantage on his attack rolls for one round

Single attack. After that, he's no longer hidden. Or... he could just use Reckless Attack and get the advantage all the time anyway.


-On subsequent rounds he may hide again as an action if the surroundings allow (dim light, half cover) and no-one is looking. If someone is looking he needs to find full cover and then take an action to roll stealth.

Heavy obscurement or full cover. And anyone can do that. And again, if he's using his action to Hide, he's not attacking.

[LankyOgre]

Even if you allow him to do all of that, how is he staying hidden when he leaves cover to move up to enemies?
Hiding is not invisibility. The moment he breaks cover, he is visible. If he can attack from that location, then he has advantage. If he has to move, then the only thing granting him advantage is the DM (not the rules).

I could see an argument made for starting the round hidden and being quiet enough. If a group of bandits are in combat against our "Typical Adventuring Party," of a fighter, rogue, wizard, and cleric, and the rogue hides, the the bandits could very well continue focusing most of their attention on the fighter, wizard, and cleric. The rogue could sneak to a place and then dart out and stab someone in the bag with Advantage.
I see it all the time with my kids playing tag. One of them becomes so focused on a specific kid, that they don't notice another one coming up behind them. And that's in an open gym. Now, I know my kids aren't trained warriors, but then they aren't ninjas either.

[strangebloke]

Even if you allow him to do all of that, how is he staying hidden when he leaves cover to move up to enemies?
Hiding is not invisibility. The moment he breaks cover, he is visible. If he can attack from that location, then he has advantage. If he has to move, then the only thing granting him advantage is the DM (not the rules).

It's an optional PHB rule. Depending on the circumstances your DM may allow you to approach someone from behind and make an attack roll with advantage. But that's purely DM discretion, and certainly not a universal rule.

[Vogie]

-Moves stealthy 24/7, both in and out of combat, effectively...


https://utahvalley360.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/01/Kronk-hiding.gif

[Spacehamster]

It's an optional PHB rule. Depending on the circumstances your DM may allow you to approach someone from behind and make an attack roll with advantage. But that's purely DM discretion, and certainly not a universal rule.

Aye if playing with miniatures and the enemies are facing the other way I would defo allow him to approach from behind and attack with advantage, would probably call for another stealth roll to see how silently
he sneaks up behind them tho.

[strangebloke]

Aye if playing with miniatures and the enemies are facing the other way I would defo allow him to approach from behind and attack with advantage, would probably call for another stealth roll to see how silently
he sneaks up behind them tho.

Yeah, and even then, you only get advantage on the first attack.

DND doesn't have facing rules, though, so you have to be careful with this. Sometimes, it's obviously plausible that someone is facing away (the guy is holding point in a narrow corridor) other times, its less clear, and you get into silly things like "I run twenty feet so that he's not facing me and can't counterpell.

[Specter]

What it does is make it harder for enemies to find you while you're on the road. Bhlut since the rest of the party probably won't have that ability, then it's not much help even in these cases.