Point-Based Custom Weapons

[Argothair]

Hello! I really enjoyed Kane0's custom rules (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?538804-BAM-Houserules-and-Homebrew) for designing your own weapons, but I thought there were a couple areas where I could improve on it, so I decided to make my own. I hope you enjoy it. Let me know if there's anything that you'd want to change.

Hand Economy

You have exactly two hands. You can use both hands to hold a two-handed weapon or to use a Versatile weapon in the two-handed stance. Otherwise, each of your hands can hold one weapon, a shield, or object. You do not add damage based on your STR or DEX attribute when you attack with a weapon in your off-hand. You must have at least one free hand in order to cast new spells or cantrips. If both of your hands are full, you may not cast any spells or cantrips unless you have a special feat or meta-magic that allows you to cast spells while immobilized. You do not need a free hand in order to carry or load ammunition or spell components. You do need a free hand in order to treat an object as an improvised weapon or battlefield control device (e.g., lighting and throwing a flask of oil).
Action Economy

On your turn, you get one Action, one Move, one Interaction, and one Bonus Action. Your Action can be used to:

Cast a Spell
Attack
Prepare to Defend
Move a second time
Interact a second time

When you choose the Attack option, you can either:

Attack with one Heavy weapon, or
Attack with one Medium or Light weapon, and then Attack with one Light weapon.

In order to attack with two weapons in the same Attack, you must be carrying and holding two weapons when you start your Attack.

Loading a Crossbow
When you prepare ammo for a weapon with the Slow Loading property, such as a Crossbow, it takes exactly as much time as it would take in order to attack with that weapon if the weapon were already loaded. For example, you could use your entire Action to load a Heavy Crossbow, or you could use your Action to both load a Light Crossbow and attack with a Medium Longsword.

Extra Attacks
Eventually, martial classes will get one or more copies of the "Extra Attack" feature. When you choose the Attack option, you may make one additional attack with one Medium or Light weapon. You may never use Extra Attacks to attack with a Heavy weapon, and you may never attack with more than one weapon during the same Extra Attack.

Dual Wielding
If you have the Dual Wielding feat, your character gets +1 AC when holding two weapons, and you can add your STR or DEX bonus to your damage roll even when you attack with a weapon in your off-hand.

Two-Weapon Fighting Style
If you have the Two-Weapon Fighting Style, when you choose the Attack option, you may attack with 2 Medium weapons. In addition, you may use your Interaction to draw or pick up 2 weapons at once.

Bonus Actions and Reactions
If you have a bonus action or a reaction that allows you to make an attack, treat that attack exactly as if you chose the Attack option as your regular Action.
Constructing a Custom Weapon

When designing a new weapon, assume that you have 6 points to build a Simple weapon, and 9 points to build a Martial weapon. If the weapon is of masterwork quality, you may add 1 additional point (e.g. 10 points for a Martial Masterwork weapon).

Most of the points in your weapon will go to determine the damage die rolled by the weapon.

1 point = 1 damage
3 points = 1d4 damage
5 points = 1d6 damage
7 points = 1d8 damage
8 points = 2d4 damage
9 points = 1d10 damage
11 points = 1d12 damage
12 points = 2d6 damage
15 points = 2d8 damage

Any leftover points can be spent on beneficial traits. You can also acquire additional points by taking negative traits for your weapon. In general, simple weapons should not have more than three total traits, and martial weapons should not have more than five total traits. If a weapon has an unreasonable number of traits, the GM may rule that the weapon is unavailable at a store, or that a blacksmith does not know how to make it, or that the weapon weighs many pounds and costs many gold pieces. Masterwork weapons will typically cost about triple the ordinary price even if they do not have many traits, and the selection of masterwork weapons may be quite limited (e.g. only one or two options) in small towns or small markets.

Useful Traits that cost 2 points each
Light: the weapon is lightweight and can be swung in your off-hand as part of a two-weapon attack.
Reach: the weapon can attack enemies at a distance of up to 10 feet / 2 hexes.
Ranged: the weapon cannot be used in melee, and instead can attack enemies up to 30 feet away, or 60 feet away with disadvantage.
Brutal: the weapon scores a critical hit even when it falls one short of the threshold (e.g., a natural 19).

Useful Traits that cost 1 point each
Versatile: if held with both hands, you may increase the damage die by one step (e.g. from 1d6 to 1d8). Cannot combine with 'two-handed' or use with weapons that roll two dice.
Thrown: if you wish, you may throw the weapon at your enemy up to 20 feet away, or 40 feet with disadvantage. Afterwards, you will not have the weapon.
Long-Range: you no longer suffer disadvantage when attacking with this weapon in the far half of your range.
Parrying: while holding this weapon, you may use your reaction to give one opponent disadvantage on one attack against you with one melee weapon.
Finesse: if you wish, you may use your DEX modifier for this weapon instead of your STR modifier.
Non-Lethal: if you wish, you may strike a non-lethal blow with this weapon. Any enemy that would be reduced to 0 or fewer HP by your attack is instead reduced to 1 HP.
Spiked: attempts to disarm you of this weapon have disadvantage. This weapon is +1 to hit against enemies wearing heavy armor.
Tangling: if you hit an enemy with this weapon, you may use your bonus action to grapple that enemy, even if you are more than one hex away.
Streamlined: this weapon does not suffer disadvantage on underwater attacks, and ignores any disadvantage caused by parrying.

Harmful Traits that yield 1 point each
Clumsy: this weapon has disadvantage on all attack rolls if there is an enemy within one hex of you.
Brittle: this weapon is damaged whenever you roll a natural '1' on your damage roll with it, and must be repaired before it can be used again.
Short-Range: this ranged or thrown weapon cannot be used at all in the far half of its range.

Harmful Traits that yield 2 points each
Heavy: this weapon is unusually hard to handle and cannot be used in more than one attack per turn or used as part of a two-weapon attack.
Two-Handed: this weapon requires two hands to use, and cannot be combined with other weapons, shields, or spell-casting.
Slow-Loading: this weapon must be loaded once before each time it is fired.
Examples

Simple Dagger
1d4 damage (3 points)
Light (2 points)
Finesse (1 point)

Simple Javelin
1d6 damage (5 points)
Thrown (1 point)

Simple Net
1d4 damage (3 points)
Thrown (1 point)
Tangling (1 point)
Non-Lethal (1 point)

Simple Mace
1d8 damage (7 points)
Spiked (1 point)
Heavy (-2 points)

Simple Spear
1d6 damage (5 points)
Thrown (1 point)
Reach (2 points)
Two-Handed (-2 points)

Simple Pike
1d8 damage (7 points)
Reach (2 points)
Clumsy (-1 point)
Two-Handed (-2 points)

Simple Shortbow
1d6 damage (5 points)
Ranged (2 points)
Clumsy (-1 point)

Simple Masterwork Shortbow
1d6 damage (5 points)
Ranged (2 points)

Simple Dart
1 damage (1 points)
Thrown (1 point)
Long-Range (1 point)
Finesse (1 point)
Light (2 points)

Simple Masterwork Dart
1d4 damage (3 points)
Thrown (1 point)
Long-Range (1 point)
Light (2 points)

Martial Rapier
1d6 damage (5 points)
Light (2 points)
Parrying (1 point)
Finesse (1 point)

Martial Quarterstaff
2d4 damage (8 points)
Light (2 points)
Finesse (1 point)
Parrying (1 point)
Two-Handed (-2 points)

Martial Masterwork Bastard Sword
1d12 damage (11 points)
Versatile (1 point)
Parrying (1 point)
Heavy (-2 points)

Martial Halberd
1d10 damage (9 points)
Reach (2 points)
Parrying (1 point)
Two-Handed (-2 points)

Martial Lance
2d6 damage (12 points)
Reach (2 points)
Two-Handed (-2 points)
Heavy (-2 points)

Martial Battleaxe
1d12 damage (11 points)
Brutal (2 points)
Two-Handed (-2 Points)
Heavy (-2 Points)

Martial Light Crossbow
1d10 damage (9 points)
Ranged (2 points)
Light (2 points)
Slow-Loading (-2 points)
Clumsy (-1 point)

Martial Masterwork Longbow
1d10 damage (9 points)
Ranged (2 points)
Long-Range (1 point)
Two-Handed (-2 points)

[Kane0]

Seems solid to me. I like!

[Thunderfist12]

Great idea! I'll be using a version of this in my next campaign.

A few ideas to add to this:

Damage Type (Special): For free, you may make this weapon deal Bludgeoning, Slashing, or Piercing damage. For 1 additional point, you may change half its damage type to fire, cold, poison, acid, lightning, or thunder. For 2 points, you can make it deal only this damage type.

Dire Critical (1 Point): The weapon's critical modifier increases by one. Therefore, while most players deal double damage on a critical, taking this feature once allows you to deal triple damage on a critical. This may be taken up to 3 times for an average multiplier of x5.

Double Weapon (2 Points): The weapon has two edges to attack with. Both edges are treated for determining traits as separate weapons which both have to spend the cost of being part of this double weapon. A martial double weapon, therefore, has 7 points to spend on each edge. For the purpose of dual wielding, treat this weapon as though you were wielding a light weapon in your off hand.

Honed Edge (2 Points): Increase the critical range of the weapon by one. For example, the average player who applies this once to their weapon makes critical hits on a 19 or 20. This may be taken up to 3 times for an average range of 17 to 20.

Mancatcher (2 Points): You gain advantage on checks to pin an opponent. On a successful critical hit, you automatically pin an enemy to the ground, a wall, or another surface. A pinned enemy counts as prone, and as long as you hold them down with this weapon, they may make a Strength save against your attack roll with the weapon to try and free themself. This may only be applied to a melee weapon.

Spray Range (2 Points): This weapon deals damage in a 15-foot cone.

[JNAProductions]

Honed Edge is borked, since crits auto-hit in 5E. That's a 30% chance of hitting AC Infinity, without advantage. With advantage, that pops up to a 51% chance.

Weapon could look like this:

1d6 damage (5)
X4 Crit Mod (2)
15-20 Crit Range (5)
Two-Handed (-2)

Or up damage to 1d8 in exchange for no improved Crit damage.

Probably best in a Barbarian's hands (Brutal Critical and Reckless Attack) but a high-level Champion Fighter would be critting (and therefore hitting) on a 13+, no matter what.

[Thunderfist12]

Honed Edge is borked, since crits auto-hit in 5E. That's a 30% chance of hitting AC Infinity, without advantage. With advantage, that pops up to a 51% chance.

Weapon could look like this:

1d6 damage (5)
X4 Crit Mod (2)
15-20 Crit Range (5)
Two-Handed (-2)

Or up damage to 1d8 in exchange for no improved Crit damage.

Probably best in a Barbarian's hands (Brutal Critical and Reckless Attack) but a high-level Champion Fighter would be critting (and therefore hitting) on a 13+, no matter what.

It's now 2pts cost, max 3 times. Good point.

[rbstr]

Why do you want to nerf Heavy Weapons so much with your extra attack change?

Without getting into doing any of the other stuff, if you've got 9 points you have either a 1d10 weapon or a heavy 1d12 weapon.

That's not even close to being worth the loss of extra attack.

[Argothair]

@Thunderfist:

Thanks for the neat additional options!

@rbstr:

I of course agree with you that 2 attacks with a 1d10 weapon is usually much better than 1 attack with a 1d12 weapon...but the trade-off is more complicated (and, I hope, more interesting) than that.

If you're playing a full caster who doesn't *get* an extra attack, like a Wizard, Cleric, or Sorcerer, then you'd rather have the Heavy weapon.

If you're dual wielding, you can dual-wield a Heavy Weapon and a Medium Weapon. You could use the Heavy Weapon on your first attack, and the Medium Weapon on your second (third, fourth, etc.) attacks. You could even attack once with the Heavy Weapon, drop it after your attack (free), draw your tertiary (Light) weapon (uses interaction), and then use your Extra Attack to attack with a Medium weapon and a Light weapon, all in the same turn.

If you're fighting a monster with old-school -5 damage reduction (not as common as it used to be), then you might want a Heavy weapon so you can get in one big attack instead of two smaller attacks where maybe neither of them would do any good.

If you're trying to kill a sleeping goblin with 6 HP, you might rather have one attack with 1d12, because if you miss, it's no big deal (you can swing again next round), but if you hit it for less than 6 damage, then the Goblin attacks you.

So, yeah, Heavy's not always the right call, but it makes sense in some situations: just like Light. Or at least, that's the goal of my system. If you can think of a way to improve it, please let me know!

[Thunderfist12]

Why do you want to nerf Heavy Weapons so much with your extra attack change?

Without getting into doing any of the other stuff, if you've got 9 points you have either a 1d10 weapon or a heavy 1d12 weapon.

That's not even close to being worth the loss of extra attack.

I definitely agree on this point. If Heavy is given such a terrible drawback might I suggest the following alternative?

Heavy (-1): In addition to the standard rules for heavy weapons, all Extra Attacks you might have access to are treated, when attacking with this weapon, as extra damage instead. Therefore, while you might have 2 Extra Attacks (and thus 3 total attacks) with a medium weapon dealing 1d10 - effectively having a maximum output of 3d10 + triple the applicable bonuses - the same modifier applied to a Heavy weapon normally dealing 1d10 damage has in this instance an output of 3d10 + once the applicable bonuses.

This is likely closer to your intended role for Heavy weapons with this mechanic. Just lump all the attacks into one.

[rbstr]

If you're trying to kill a sleeping goblin with 6 HP, you might rather have one attack with 1d12, because if you miss, it's no big deal (you can swing again next round), but if you hit it for less than 6 damage, then the Goblin attacks you.


I don't think this logic holds up at all. There's a difference of two damage, at best, between a 1d10 and 1d12 (and this actually holds up any time you make a direct heavy vs. non-heavy comparison with your rules). That's one point on average. With a strength mod of only 3 you're killing that 6hp goblin 4/5 times in one hit with the d10 weapon. With the d12 weapon you're one-shotting the gobbo 5/6 times.
Since the d10 weapon can attack twice it's got twice the chance to hit which actually makes it more likely to one-round that goblin than a single d12 attack.

Frankly I think you're severely underestimating how much extra attack really means to average damage. 1d10+3 with extra attack is 17 per round. 1d12+3 is only 9.5.
If you want an extra attack class to ever use a heavy weapon as is it would need to do massively more damage per hit.

I mean I guess you can do the nutty weapon swapping but that kind of thing has always rubbed me the wrong way. A big strong fighter should be fighting with his heavy weapon and benefiting from it because he's strong enough to and that's what he's good at.
Meanwhile, besides the cleric, none of those single-attack casters will want to use a non-finesse weapon anyway.

[Arkhios]

A minor nitpick: without the Dual Wielder feat, both of your weapons must be light in order to make that attack with your off-hand weapon.

As much as I like homebrewing, I prefer to keep the stuff in-line with official things. In all honesty, I would recommend that to everyone.

For example, I wouldn't enable making weapons with 2d8 damage, because no other weapon in the PHB does that much. And frankly, the Firearms from DMG aren't really good to balance things with.

[Thunderfist12]

A minor nitpick: without the Dual Wielder feat, both of your weapons must be light in order to make that attack with your off-hand weapon.

As much as I like homebrewing, I prefer to keep the stuff in-line with official things. In all honesty, I would recommend that to everyone.

For example, I wouldn't enable making weapons with 2d8 damage, because no other weapon in the PHB does that much. And frankly, the Firearms from DMG aren't really good to balance things with.

On the other hand, here's why it's not badly unbalanced:

As a martial weapon to get 2d8 damage you need a total of 6 points in penalties. Such a weapon could look like this:

Damage: 2d8
Good Traits: None
Bad Traits: Brittle, Clumsy, Slow-Loading, and Two-Handed.

This makes it a melee weapon, with disadvantage on ALL attacks because of Clumsy applied to a melee weapon, and it also consumes both hands while only being able to attack once every other round and also being very breakable, being rendered ineffective for ~5% of the time you swing the damn thing.

Alternatively if you use my version of the Heavy trait:

Damage: 2d8
Good Traits: None
Bad Traits: Clumsy, Heavy, Slow-Loading, and Two-Handed.

Where now, instead of breaking, you get one attack each round - that's all - still at disadvantage, and still must "reload" (or since it's melee haul the damn thing into place for another attack). It's more or less reduced to 1d8/turn anyways thanks to Slow-Loading.

[Arkhios]

On the other hand, here's why it's not badly unbalanced:

As a martial weapon to get 2d8 damage you need a total of 6 points in penalties. Such a weapon could look like this:

Damage: 2d8
Good Traits: None
Bad Traits: Brittle, Clumsy, Slow-Loading, and Two-Handed.

This makes it a melee weapon, with disadvantage on ALL attacks because of Clumsy applied to a melee weapon, and it also consumes both hands while only being able to attack once every other round and also being very breakable, being rendered ineffective for ~5% of the time you swing the damn thing.

Alternatively if you use my version of the Heavy trait:

Damage: 2d8
Good Traits: None
Bad Traits: Clumsy, Heavy, Slow-Loading, and Two-Handed.

Where now, instead of breaking, you get one attack each round - that's all - still at disadvantage, and still must "reload" (or since it's melee haul the damn thing into place for another attack). It's more or less reduced to 1d8/turn anyways thanks to Slow-Loading.

While I see where you're coming from, I'd say it's still arguable to justify 2d8 based solely on someone's self-made traits, which are nowhere near to official rules. It's a rather flimsy justification.

...

Don't get me wrong. I absolutely like the idea behind this system, and I will use it at some point, but OP asked if there were something I'd change, and I spoke my mind.

[Argothair]

Don't get me wrong. I absolutely like the idea behind this system, and I will use it at some point, but OP asked if there were something I'd change, and I spoke my mind.

And I'm glad you did! Your feedback is very interesting; it helps me see where the system falls short of people's desires, and helps me learn to make even better stuff next time.

I can certainly see the value of a more 'conservative' homebrew that fills in the gaps *within* the OOB rules instead of extending gameplay *beyond* the OOB rules. I think the point-based weapon system would work just fine without the option of 2d8 damage and with more traditional rules for weapon weight.

If you don't like the idea of making only one attack per turn with a Heavy weapon, you could use the OOB rules for Heavy weapons (can't be used by Small creatures) and reduce the pricing impact so that making a weapon Heavy only gives you a -1 discount on the point cost, instead of -2.

Even if you are open to more aggressive rules changes, it's possible that I've underestimated the cost of making a weapon only work once per turn. I think you're right about my sleeping Goblin example; I forgot that you'd be able to use your Extra Attack before the Goblin wakes up, even if you hit for less than 6 damage on the first swing.

One way to fix this is to make the Heavy trait give you 3 extra points to play with, instead of only 2 extra points.

Another is to say that you can use Heavy weapons on Extra Attacks, but not during Bonus Actions.

Another is to just let you use a Heavy weapon whenever you want, but to say that you can never dual-wield with a Heavy weapon, e.g., no attacking with one Heavy weapon + one Light weapon. That's the option I'm leaning toward right now, although I worry that it will make people want to make pretty much every one-handed weapon be Heavy, because if you're only holding one weapon, then why not make it Heavy?

Maybe Heavy weapons should take a full Action to draw or put away? I'll chew on it. :-)

[Arkhios]

And I'm glad you did! Your feedback is very interesting; it helps me see where the system falls short of people's desires, and helps me learn to make even better stuff next time.

I can certainly see the value of a more 'conservative' homebrew that fills in the gaps *within* the OOB rules instead of extending gameplay *beyond* the OOB rules. I think the point-based weapon system would work just fine without the option of 2d8 damage and with more traditional rules for weapon weight.

If you don't like the idea of making only one attack per turn with a Heavy weapon, you could use the OOB rules for Heavy weapons (can't be used by Small creatures) and reduce the pricing impact so that making a weapon Heavy only gives you a -1 discount on the point cost, instead of -2.

Even if you are open to more aggressive rules changes, it's possible that I've underestimated the cost of making a weapon only work once per turn. I think you're right about my sleeping Goblin example; I forgot that you'd be able to use your Extra Attack before the Goblin wakes up, even if you hit for less than 6 damage on the first swing.

One way to fix this is to make the Heavy trait give you 3 extra points to play with, instead of only 2 extra points.

Another is to say that you can use Heavy weapons on Extra Attacks, but not during Bonus Actions.

Another is to just let you use a Heavy weapon whenever you want, but to say that you can never dual-wield with a Heavy weapon, e.g., no attacking with one Heavy weapon + one Light weapon. That's the option I'm leaning toward right now, although I worry that it will make people want to make pretty much every one-handed weapon be Heavy, because if you're only holding one weapon, then why not make it Heavy?

Maybe Heavy weapons should take a full Action to draw or put away? I'll chew on it. :-)

I think you should add a clause that in order for a weapon to be Heavy, it must also be two-handed. That should be limiting enough, but considering the current pricing, I would probably have Heavy yield only 1 point to compensate the requirement. That way it would also fall well within the context of existing heavy weapons. Unless I've missed something, all existing (official) heavy weapons are also two-handed.

By the way, I don't think I've ever seen the acronym 'OOB' before. What does it stand for?

[rbstr]

Yeah, I totally see wanting to make sure heavy has a drawback so it's not just a free benefit. The regular game requires them all to be two handed and small creatures can't use them.
I'd almost suggest getting rid of the property and just using two-handed with your scheme. But requiring two-handed is a good idea. As is preventing it from being finesse.

Some other balance issue I'm seeing:
Clumsy is something every ranged weapon should take since they are already disadvantaged by enemies w/in 5ft. It's a free bonus for them.
All weapons are already non-lethal by the typical rules - you're allowed to knock someone out instead of killing them if you declare it.

The versatile property just hurts a weapon for no actual benefit. You get a 1d10 one-handed weapon at 9 points. Adding versatile makes it a d8 one-handed but back to d10 when used with two.
In the PHB weapon table versatile is actually a "free" property and all martial weapons actually start at a d8. Since versatile lets you use 2 hands it upgrades the die when you use it like a two-handed weapon.

Here's the PBH rules for reference:
All weapons start at a d6
Upgrade die one level for a bad thing and downgrade for a good thing
Bad things:
Martial
Two-Handed
Heavy
Loading

good things:
Reach
Light
Ammunition


Thrown, Finesse, and Versatile are actually outside of those properties and are "free". But it's pretty clear that nothing above a d8 has finesse.
Note that this isn't 100% accurate. The Trident and a Whip fall outside of these rules.

[thegreatone5224]

I like the idea of the custom weapon point system and will have to revisit this should my current DM allow us to create custom items.