PDA

View Full Version : Ranger: hunter vs gloom stalker



Waazraath
2018-03-04, 05:05 AM
Hey playground, question. I'm experimenting a bit with a melee build that includes 5 levels of ranger. Idea is a two handed weapon, with hunter's mark, with a large number of attacks (for 3d6 + stat modifier).

Two Ranger sub classes give extra attacks, beyond the usual "extra attack". There's the Hunter's Horde Breaker, that gives an extra attack when to foes are standing next to each other. And there's Xanathar's Gloom Stalker, whose Dread Ambusher ability gives an extra attack in the first round of combat.

By itself, I'm doubting which of the two is better. Dread Ambusher is more reliable (each combat has a first round), while Horde Breaker is situational and won't occur every combat. But in certain combats (against a horde of weaker monsters), it can shine and can be used 5 times in a single combat, or more often.

How would you folks choose?

A side note: disregarding what's 'best' DPR wise, I can't help notice that the Hunter and Gloom Stalker both get an ability that give a situational extra attack. But: the Gloom Stalker gives further:

- a free spell known (of each spell level)
- wis to initiative
- 10 ft extra move first round of combat
- (increased) darkvision
- darkvsion of foes doesn't work against the Gloom Stalker.

What's up with that? I know the Ranger was supposed to be one of the weaker brothers and sisters in the PHB, and XGtE is supposed to compensate, but this is a bit much, aint it?

mephnick
2018-03-04, 07:37 AM
They kind of went stupid fixing the Ranger. Revised Ranger was a miss, despite everyone's love for it, and the new subclasses are definitely stronger. The fact that they didn't add a sidebar giving BM and Hunter bonus spells in XgtE really smacks of incompetence. That being said, Hunter has always been a good archetype and in my campaigns Hordebreaker is definitely a good choice as I run combat with many smaller enemies and few combats with a couple large ones. It really comes down to the style at your table.

X3r4ph
2018-03-04, 07:58 AM
If you are only interested in damage output horde breaker is in my experience much better. In my group there is a barbarian ranger with it. He triggers it constantly. It's brutal.

Waazraath
2018-03-04, 08:21 AM
Thanks. Based on my own experiences, hordes are common enough to think DPR-wise, Hunter will be better. Also based on published campaigns (PotA and OotA - haven't finished those yet though). Always good to see how it works out at other tables.

Agree with mephnick that at the very least giving Hunter and Beast Master bonus spells known would have been much more elegant. Even if it was just presented as a variant rule, "if you use these sub classes, for inner class balance it is advised to give Hunter and Beast Master the following spells known", or something like that.